House of Commons
Friday, June 5, 1812.
Petition From Worcester Respecting the Orders in Council
A Petition of the manufacturers and other inhabitants of the City of Worcester, was presented and read; setting forth,
"That the petitioners are chiefly engaged in the manufacture of gloves and porcelain ware, the former of which has, for a number of years past, afforded the means of subsistence to many thousands of industrious men, women, and children, spread through nearly the extent of the county; and that the chief demand for this manufacture (independent of the home-consumption) has been, for the last twenty years, for the United States of America; and that, since the issuing of the Orders in Council, the demand for gloves for the American market has been much diminished, and, since the operation of the American Non-importation Act, has been entirely lost to the petitioners, the consequence of which has been that most of the manufacturers have suffered greatly from the want of a market for their goods, some have been entirely ruined, and a great number of the industrious men, women, and children, as before stated to be employed in this manufacture, have been forced, for want of employment, to seek relief from their parishes; and that, although porcelain ware has not made a leading article of exportation from the city of Worcester to the United States of America, yet that manufacture is in a very languishing state, increased, if not caused, the petitioners humbly conceive, by the operation of the Orders in Council, which, having very much deteriorated the general trade and commerce of the realm, has, in addition to the very heavy burthen of taxes, much diminished the use and consumption of articles of luxury; and that the great decay in these two manufactories has very seriously affected the city, and a great portion of the county of Worcester, neither the manufacturers nor their work-people having the money to expend with the shop-keepers and others, as they were accustomed to do when in more prosperous circumstances; and praying, that the House will be pleased to recommend to his royal highness the Prince Regent, that the said Orders in Council be rescinded as soon as they conveniently can, if, upon the investigation now in progress in the House, it should appear that they can be rescinded without compromising the honour or the interest of the country."
Ordered to be referred to the Committee on the several Petitions against the Orders in Council.
Negociations for Forming a New Administration
brought up the Report of the Committee of Ways and Means.
said, that the House was reduced to the dilemma, either of withholding the necessary supplies, or of granting them without a responsible minister. He thought, however, a line of distinction might be drawn, which was, to offer no opposition till the last stage of each financial measure, by which time it was to be presumed an efficient administration would be formed: and the present measure in particular, was the less objectionable as it imposed no new duties.
said, the present resolution merely proposed a continuation of the old duties; nor, if he happened to remain in office, would it be necessary for him to propose any additional duties.
declared, that there appeared to him less hope than ever of constituting a vigorous and efficient government, unless the House was resolved to interfere. He could not believe that the feelings of the country or its condition, internal or external1, could have been faithfully represented to his Royal Highness, or that the necessity of redressing the grievances of the people could have been sufficiently impressed upon his royal mind. He trusted therefore, that the House would not suffer another day to pass, without expressing the sense they entertained of the importance of addressing the Prince Regent as to the dangers that surrounded the country, and the great events which might be anticipated in the north of Europe. He had no predilection for one party more than another, but he had some predilection for his country. (Hear, hear!)
stated, that it had been his intention, either that day or the next, as might best meet the pleasure of the House, to move an Address to the Prince Regent, which, with their permission, he would read.
said, that as there was already a question before the House, the hon. member could not, consistently with its orders, submit what could form the matter of another and a future question.
was sensible of the deep anxiety felt at present both by the House and the country, and what he wished for was, that while the House felt it a duty to be firm, they should also feel it their duty to be respectful. From what had passed in another place, an expectation was entertained that some explanation would be given on that evening, and he could not help thinking, that it would be advisable to postpone any measure that might be proposed until Monday, when, if the same uncertainty prevailed, he would most readily join in some representation of the sentiments of the House to the Prince Regent.
The Report of the Resolutions was read a first and second time.
again rose, and observed, that he was at a loss to know whether it was or was not the pleasure of the House that he should immediately submit his motion. He would, however, read the Address which he had drawn up, and whatever faults it might have, he begged that they might be considered all his own, as he had consulted nobody in preparing it. He intended, then, on Monday, to move, "That an Address be presented to the Prince Regent, stating, that it became the duty of the House of Commons, as his Royal Highness's counsellors, to advise him on the present unexampled state of the country: that some weeks had elapsed since the death of Mr. Perceval, during which the nation has been deprived of a responsible government: that from the gracious answer of his Royal Highness to the Address of the House, they had expected an administration to be immediately formed, possessing the confidence of the Prince and of the nation: that the House saw, with regret, that the efforts towards framing such a government had proved ineffectual; and that obstacles had arisen which they must lament, but of which they knew not enough to advise his Royal Highness thereon: that it was their wish that a government should be immediately formed, to which there was no doubt that the Commons would afford their faithful assistance."
moved that the House at its rising do adjourn till Monday next.
professed his intention to oppose the adjournment; and suggested to the hon. general, that it might be better to move that his Address should be referred to a committee.
said, he should oppose any motion for an adjournment. There never was an instance of a delay of two days, under circumstances like the present. It was the sentiment of Mr. Pitt, on a similar occasion, that time should be measured, not by days, but by hours. In his opinion, the House should sit as often as it possibly could, and exert its vigilance over the proceedings of public men.
said, that though it was the usual course to adjourn till Monday, yet on an occasion like the present, they ought to sit from day to day. It was their duty to watch over the actions of their public characters from hour to hour. At present there was no administration: the late ministers merely held the seals till their successors were appointed. Such being the case, it was the paramount duty of the House not to abandon for an hour its office of active vigilance over public men.
said, there were two evils which it behoved the House to avoid; the one was, the dereliction of its duty; the other, not to manifest a degree of intemperance which was not consistent with the respect due to the personage at the head of the government. As the notice of the motion of the gallant general was entered for Monday, he did not suppose that it was the intention of any member to forestall it by a previous motion; he could, therefore, see no objection to the adjournment.
thought that the House, so far from shewing any intemperance, had been guilty of delay. The eyes of the nation were fixed on their representatives, and it became them to interfere with firmness, and without delay.
said, from what had fallen from the other side, it would appear, that they alluded to that person whose duty it was to form a government—that they meant to attach blame to that illustrious person. (Order! Order!) If it was not out of order, he should wish to put a few questions to the right hon. and learned gentleman, who had appeared on a former night so anxious to answer questions which had been framed in concert with him. At that time, indeed, no negociation had been entered into, no conditions had been proposed. Since that period a treaty had been instituted, and broken off, and as public rumour said, on terms. Now he wished very much to know, what those terms were? but as he could ask no questions, perhaps the hon. gentleman (Mr. Wortley) would be able, by his persuasive eloquence, to induce the right hon. gentleman to be explicit.
said, that the hon. member was totally misinformed, when he said that the questions alluded to were framed in concert with the right hon. gentleman opposite. He had merely asked that right hon. gentleman if he would answer them. That right hon. gentleman was now in his place, and would contradict him, if he misstated.
said, that certainly there was no concert between himself and the hon. gentleman who spoke last; that there was no question framed in his presence, or at his desire, or with his consent; that the hon. gentleman had, in the presence of several friends met together on private business, stated the nature of his questions; and he had declared, that he would answer them in the negative. Nothing more had passed between them.
saw no objection to adjourning till Monday, as the motion was fixed for that day: it could not be the intention of the house to proceed to any discussion previous to that motion. He thought also, that it would be prudent in the gallant general, not to be premature in framing his Address. It was impossible to tell, at present, where blame attached; for his own part, he believed, that all the leading public men were actuated by honourable and upright motives; he hoped, therefore, that in the consideration of the proposed question, there might be something like a forgetfulness of party.
said, it was not difficult to account for the delay which had arisen in the formation of a new administration. There was a sub-division which required that the two great divisions should concede every thing, and wished itself to engross the principal power. If an Address could be framed without any party-mixture, he should wish it to be immediate; and as for himself, he was ready to support any administration which should be appointed. The present struggle for power arose from the natural tenaciousness felt by men of high rank, for high public situations. He thought it the duty of the House to place the most implicit confidence in the Prince Regent, who could not be supposed to form a government inadequate to the services of the state. There were men of talent enough on both sides of the House, to govern the nation; and he should always be willing, whether in office or not, to support the government, consisting of such men of talent. He was perfectly disinterested, and conceived such conduct to be his duty.
would support an adjournment till Monday; but thought that the House should then act with vigour and decision.
saw no pressing necessity for the House to continue its sittings de die in diem. He thought that his hon. friend (Mr. Johnstone) to whom he gave perfect credit for the disinterestedness of his motives, had made an unfit and unauthorized declaration, when he said, that the present delay arose from a struggle for power. It was an invidious remark, unless it merely meant that there were great public questions on which public men could not consistently agree.
conceived that the House ought to sit to-morrow, to give it an opportunity, should any thing arise, of expressing its sentiments thereon.
said, he would consent to an adjournment, if the hon. gentleman (Mr. Wortley) would pledge himself to bring on a motion on Monday.
said, it was impossible to give such pledge absolutely: it must depend on circumstances: perhaps an administration might be formed before Monday; but if nothing occurred, it certainly was his present view, that the House should not separate without some declaration of its sentiments.
said, he agreed to an adjournment, on condition, that if on Monday things were the same as now, an Address would be moved to his royal highness the Prince Regent.
pledged himself to propose such a motion on Monday; though, perhaps, he might in the interim alter the words of the Address which he had read.
said, he should be guided by circumstances; but should be as ready as any member to pledge himself to a performance of his duty on Monday.
It was then ordered, that the House, on its rising, should adjourn till Monday.