House of Commons
Wednesday, June 10, 1812.
The right hon. Nicholas Vansittart, Chancellor of the Exchequer, took the oaths and his seat.
Catholic Question—Orders in Council
stated, that in his ab- sence an arrangement had been come to respecting the day on which the hon. and learned gentleman (Mr. Brougham) was to have submitted his motion respecting the Orders in Council, which arrangement would materially interfere with the question which he (Mr. Canning) was to introduce upon the same day. He was willing, however, if the House would consent to it, to wave his day, the Thursday of that week, provided he was allowed to bring it forward on the preceding Wednesday.
said, that the established usage was against accelerating notices.
said, that he had merely thrown out the suggestion for the sake of mutual accommodation, and that, if not approved of, he must then adhere to his day.
said, that whatever might be thought by the members present a matter of convenience, might appear as other than convenience to the members absent.
would not hear of the doctrine of notices, as interfering at all with the right of a member of parliament to originate any proposition in that House.
admitted the abstract right, but thought that it was the last right that gentlemen would be disposed to insist on. He expressed a hope, that the right hon. gentleman and the hon. and learned gentleman would so arrange it, that the question of the former could come on by the Monday following.
After a few words from Mr. Whitbread and Mr. Brougham, on the necessity of an early decision upon the question respecting the Orders in Council, and also from Mr. Canning, stating the great inconvenience that must result to the Irish gentlemen if his question was postponed, it was agreed, that Mr. Canning's motion should come on upon Thursday se'nnight, and Mr. Brougham's upon Tuesday next, the 16th instant.
rose for the purpose of putting a question to the noble lord opposite. He wished to know if it was intended, on the part of the present ministers, that the same policy in every respect, should be observed by them in reference to the Catholic question, which had been observed by the administration under the conduct of a late right hon. gentleman.
said, that he felt some difficulty in answering the question of the hon. gentleman literally, the arrangements for the new ministry not having been yet fully completed. But as to the spirit of the question, he thought he could be more satisfactory. He could say this from his knowledge of those employed in forming that administration, that generally, their sentiments remained the same. Upon a former occasion, they had thought, inclusive even of those who were favourable to the measure, that the present was not the time for discussing that question; and in still thinking so, that recent decisions of parliament formed a leading consideration in influencing the adoption of that opinion. The sense of parliament having been, at least for the present, definitively pronounced, they thought that any immediate revived discussion would only create irritation, without being productive of any thing useful. He was aware, however, of the growing change in favour of those claims, and in submission to that change, end the real sentiments of certain members of the government, it had been resolved upon as a principle, that the discussion of this question should be left free from all interference on the part of the government, and that every member of that government should be left to the free and unbiassed suggestions of his own consciencious discretion. He did not pretend to disguise from himself the difficulties and embarrassments which might individually arise from arrangements of such a nature, but—
rose to order. He said the noble lord was making a speech instead of answering a simple question.—Cries of Order! Order! Go on, go on!
said, that he thought when indulgence of this kind had been afforded to so extensive a latitude, to others, he might be permitted to profit by it in some small degree. He repeated, that difficulties might arise, but still that he, as a member of that government, should, if the question came before him, vote as then might seem best to him, and support such measures as appeared to his judgment best calculated to be useful to the empire and conciliatory to Ireland.