moved, that the Report on the London New Prison Bill be taken into further consideration.

rose to oppose it. He said the object of the Bill was to erect a large prison for the city of London by taxing the neighbouring counties; whereas by the statutes of Henry 8, Elizabeth, William, and George 2, the magistrates of a county were bound to build a gaol for the county, and defray the expences by rates on the hundreds. He objected to raising money on the credit of the Orphans' Fund, and stated the origin and history of that fund, to shew that it was not a city estate, to be disposed of as the city pleased. The tax on coals would affect the adjacent counties, which were not benefited by the Bill as much as London. There was no reason why the city should meet with this indulgence: if, as it was stated, its prison was used for state and national purposes, let the nation pay; and let the consolidated fund, and not the Orphans' Fund, be applied to the erection of the state prison. There was a provision in the Bill, stating to what purposes the existing prisons would be applied in the event of building a new gaol, but no notice was taken of the Poultry Compter, a large and valuable space of ground, which he understood was to be appropriated to the building of city chambers. Under these circumstances he moved, That the report be considered that day three months.

admitted the introductory part of the hon. member's speech, as to the history of the Orphans' Fund, to be true. He observed, that Newgate, though a very fine building, was not able to accommodate the increase of prisoners arising from the increased population of London. Hints were thrown out disparaging the objects of the city's expenditure, but the city had done the greatest benefit to the public. Nor ought the members for Surrey to object, for that county received the highest advantage from the erection of Blackfriars-bridge. The London prison contained, not only its own prisoners, but those of the whole country; and as a confirmation, he would tell them, that the bread for the last quarter amounted to 950l. The hon. baronet concluded with an eulogium on the munificence of the city.

in reply stated, that this munificence was not so astonishing, when it was considered, that in the last fifty years the city had not expended above 40,000l. in public works.

went over nearly the same ground as sir William Curtis.

thought it to be highly unreasonable, that the inhabitants of West-minster and the adjacent counties to the metropolis should be taxed in their coals for the purpose of enabling the magistrates of London to erect a sumptuous prison. The adjacent counties were infested with many offenders inured to their depredations in the metropolis, but were obliged to maintain adequate places for their confinement out of their own county rates. If, as was asserted, the magistracy of London was obliged to receive the prisoners for offences on the high seas, and state prisoners, this circumstance might be a reason for calling on the country at large for aid to their expences, but it was no reason for taxing only the counties that were adjacent. The Orphans' Fund was raised to secure the property of the description of persons from whom it derived its name. The interest allowed was a low one, and it was an object of emulation among the creditors to get the debt paid off, but the granting the credit for 90,000l. now demanded, and every other charge upon it, retarded that desirable object, and, of course, continued the tax longer than would otherwise be necessary. On these grounds he objected to the consideration of the report.

supported the original motion.

observed, that the city had expended 107,000l. instead of 40,000l. for public purposes during the period mentioned by the hon. member, a great part of which sum was applied to the reward of naval and military services, by presents of swords, medals, and freedom in gold boxes; some part (42,000l.) in widening the streets, and the rest in raising different public works. The hon. member complained, that the consolidated fund was not resorted to, but the Chancellor of the Exchequer would tell him, that it was not competent to furnish the sum, and no hardship, no increase of tax, would arise from taking the money out of the Orphans' Fund. The county of Surrey complained of a small tax, but what would it have said if it had been called upon to pay half the expences of Blackfriars and Westminster Bridges, from which it derived so much benefit?

The House then divided—Ayes 46; Noes 18; Majority for bringing up the Report 28.

brought up the Report of the Committee on Lincoln Gaol, stating as before, the necessity of examining the prisoners, and observing, that though no doubt was entertained of the power of the House to summon them before the committee, yet it was not deemed prudent to enforce it, as many of the prisoners were confined for crimes, and many for large debts; also that the assizes were approaching, when it would be requisite for the gaoler and the prisoners to be on the spot. The Report concluded with mentioning the advanced state of the session, and hoping that the committee might be discharged. Mr. Giddy, in moving that the Report do lie on the table, said, he should soon move for a commission to be sent down to enquire into the state of the gaol.

expressed his satisfaction, that the Report had been recommitted, and that the committee had returned a second Report, more congenial with the feelings of the House than that which they had first submitted.

thought it his duty to state, that the evidence, as far as it went, completely exculpated Dr. Illingworth, against whom a charge of connivance with the gaoler in money transactions had been brought; the evidence, indeed, was exparte, being that of the gaoler, but it was given in so frank a manner as to satisfy the committee of its truth.

said, he had never before heard of this charge against Dr. Illingworth; he, for himself, could most positively assert, that he had alleged nothing against that magistrate except what appeared on the petition. Supposing, however, such a charge to have been made, he thought it was too much to assume the exparte testimony of the gaoler as a complete refutation of it.

observed, that the charge was implied when the hon. and learned member talked of corrupt connivance with the gaoler.

said, that he never mentioned the word "corrupt:" he did talk of connivance, and grounded that assertion on the resolutions of the magistrates, which gave directions about the prison beds; and on the reply of a magistrate to Mr. Finnerty. As to the suggestions which had been made respecting Dr. Illingworth, the only witness who had been examined on that subject, was Mr. Merry weather the gaoler, who expressly had sworn that he had never had any money transactions with Dr. Illingworth, nor with any other of the magistrates; so that Dr. Illingworth was so far cleared of the imputation made against him. With respect to the second report he looked on it to be, in substance, exactly the same as the former.

bore his testimony to the effect of the evidence already adduced before the committee, being to exculpate the magistrates of the county of Lincoln from the charges made against them. He also, in allusion to what he had mentioned on a former night, said, that the committee were fully justified in the doubts they had entertained of the power of the House, as he could prove by the statutes on the table, of the 9th and 10th of William and Mary, chap. 37, which stated that there was only one exception to an action for escape, and that was in case of a Habeas Corpus, or rule of court.

then moved, "That an humble Address be presented to his royal high- ness the Prince Regent, that he will be graciously pleased to direct that a commission may be issued to enquire into what has been, and now is, the condition and treatment of prisoners confined in Lincoln Castle, and the conduct and management of the said prison." Which was agreed to.

rose, to make the motion of which he had given notice, relative to the Jurats of the island of Jersey. He stated, that the people of Jersey had, from the reign of king John, proved themselves at all times to have been truly loyal, and zealously attached to this crown and realm. That so long ago as the reign of that sovereign, they had lived under a constitution, then granted to them, under which they had been happy and contented. That by this constitution, the governor was appointed by the King,—the second body in the state consisted of 12 jurats, elected for life, by a majority of the masters of families, and those who paid direct taxes;—the next body consisted of twelve clergymen, for the twelve parishes in the island, nominated by the crown; and then 12 constables, chosen in the same way as the jurats. This was the charter granted by king John, which had in 1671 been confirmed by king Charles 2, and subsequently by his present Majesty, in 1771: That some months ago a Commission had been issued by the privy council to enquire into the state of the jurats, and commissioners had in consequence been sent to Jersey, which very much alarmed the people of that island, under the idea that their constitution was going to be subverted or changed; and they wished, of course, to know the grounds on which this was to be done. Not conscious of having been guilty of any act of irregularity, or any other proceeding which could give cause for an alteration of the constitution under which they had so long, so happily, and so loyally lived, they were naturally anxious and desirous to obtain information on the subject. On the last occasion on which they had exercised their jurisdiction, all they had done had been confirmed by the King in council; and they were, therefore, suspicious that their conduct had been misrepresented, and that his Majesty had been misadvised. An application to parliament had therefore been made, on which a copy of the Commission had been laid before the House; but no explanation given, by which the reason for issuing it could even be guessed at. The object of this motion, therefore, was, to require a copy of the report of the commissioners. It might, perhaps, be said, this was a matter which rested with the privy council, and that parliament had no right to interfere; but he could not suppose that parliament had not as much right to interpose with respect to Jersey, as to any other part of the different appendages to the crown and realm. In moving for this report, he did not mean to throw, even by imputation, any thing like blame on his Majesty's ministers, but to quiet the alarms of the people of Jersey. The hon. and learned gentleman concluded by moving for "A Copy of the Report of the Commissioners appointed to enquire into the mode of Electing Jurats in the island of Jersey."

objected to the motion. He said representations had reached government, stating that it was necessary to alter the constitution of that settlement; a commission had therefore issued; the report moved for was not complete, but still sub judice; and it would be acting contrary to all precedent, to call for documents till such time as the matter was finally decided on by government.

said, that in the prosperity of an island, so contiguous not only to us, but to France, and in which this country was so essentially interested, the House ought not to wait till a new constitution was formed by the crown. The people of that island had a right to know on what grounds they were attempted to be disfranchised of their rights which they had uninterruptedly enjoyed from the reign of king John, and which in 1671 had been confirmed to them by king Charles 2, and by his present Majesty in 1771. He denied that acceding to this motion would be interfering with the royal prerogative; but without questioning the right of the crown, he thought that some information ought certainly to be given, in order to quiet the minds of the people.

, in explanation, contended, that as the matter was still pending, and undecided before the privy council, the House ought not to interfere.

opposed the motion, on the same grounds as those urged by Mr. Rider.

said, the mode in which the question orrginally came before the House, was an article in the Supply, of a charge of 3,500l. for the expences of cer- tain commissioners, who had been sent to the island of Jersey, and had staid there about a fortnight, for the purpose of enquiring into the state of the jurats of that island. The inhabitants of the island had been greatly alarmed at the commission, and the enquiry which took place in consequence of it. It was therefore not to be wondered at that they should be extremely anxious to obtain information as to what was meant by this commission; and he thought the House of Commons could not be deemed too scrutinising in taking notice of the expenditure of 3,500l. in the course of a fortnight, for the purpose of carrying into effect this commission which had created so much alarm in the minds of the people of Jersey.

replied shortly, and concluded by saying, that as there seemed no likelihood of obtaining the smallest degree of information at present, the matter would be brought forward by petition early in the next session.

The motion was then negatived without a division.