House of Commons
Wednesday, July 22, 1812.
Insolvent Debtors Bill
having brought up the Report of this Bill,
said, if there was any thing in his short political life, for which he might be entitled to take credit, he presumed to think it was for the attempts he had made to break the bonds of perpetual imprisonment. He hoped if, in the next session, the permanent Insolvent Bill could not be matured and carried through, at least some more effectual regulations than those contained in the present Bill might have been adopted.
expressed his regret, that from the late period at which the Bill was brought into the House, it would be impossible, with any prospect of advantage, to introduce a clause extending the provisions of it to the islands of Jersey and Guernsey, which it had been his object to do.
contended, that there was no instance of parliament having exercised the right of legislating for Jersey and Guernsey, except in cases of trade.
agreed with his hon. and learned friend, that it would be imprudent at this period of the session to interfere with the Bill now before the House. He was satisfied, however, that it was indispensably necessary, that some alteration should be made in the mode of confinement for debt in the islands alluded to. If it was fairly represented to him, the effect of confinement there must be the termination of the existence of the person confined. Such a matter was peculiarly necessary to be enquired into now, when there was a measure in dependence for revising the laws of the island of Jersey.
The Bill was then read a third time and passed.
Petition of Thomas Ball
brought forward his promised motion on the Petition of Thomas Ball, who had been seized, imprisoned, and convicted in a penalty, for having smuggled goods in a chaise in which he was found. He moved that the Petition be referred to a Committee, to enquire into the allegations therein contained.—No person seconding the motion, it of course fell to the ground.
Petition of the Late Factory at Oporto
said, he held in his hand a Petition from certain merchants of this country concerned in the trade to Portugal, particularly in the wine trade with Oporto, complaining that two several clauses in a Treaty of Amity, Commerce and Navigation, concluded between his Majesty and the Prince Regent of Portugal, professing to be founded on a basis of reciprocity and mutual convenience, had not been carried into effect. He should have felt it to be his duty to present this Petition to the House in his capacity of an individual member of parliament; but he felt himself more peculiarly called on to introduce the subject to the consideration of parliament, the Memorial referred to in the Petition having been left at his office while he was Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. The first clause in the Treaty which the petitioners complained had not been carried into effect, was the 8th clause, by which it was provided that British subjects should not be restrained, interrupted, or otherwise affected by the operation of any monopoly, contract, or exclusive privileges of sale or purchase whatsoever; but that the subjects of Great Britain should have free and unrestricted permission to buy and sell, from and to whomsoever, and in whatever form or manner they might please, whether by wholesale or retail, without being obliged to give any preference or favour in consequence of the said monopolies, contracts, or exclusive privileges of sale or purchase. The 25th Article of the same Treaty stipulated for the putting an end to the British factories in Portugal in time coming; but at the same time declared, that the British subjects in general shall have a right to the buildings, &c. where those factories were formerly established, as individuals engaged in commerce. Now, in consequence of this 25th Article of the Treaty, the British factories at Lisbon and Oporto were abandoned; but there still existed at Oporto a Company having an exclusive privilege, or monopoly, called the Royal Oporto Wine Company, which had even the right of pre-emption of all wines. It was obvious that what the Treaty in question had in view were reciprocal stipulations. In the 8th Clause, the companies to be exempted are expressed by name, and if this was one of them it would have been enumerated. Not only had the treaty, however, been strictly executed on the part of the British merchant; but an act had been passed, giving to the Treaty the sanction of parliament. Out of this circumstance arose the peculiar propriety of applying to the House on this subject, and the House, it was to be hoped, would give the petitioners that redress which was in their power, by repealing the articles favourable to the Portuguese, if the Treaty was not fairly executed on their part. The extent of the evil of which the petitioners had to complain might be judged of from this, that the average importation into the united empire, for a series of former years, exceeded annually 50,000 pipes, producing a revenue of upwards of 2,500,000l. The export from Oporto, last year, was only 18,536 pipes, which would produce only about 900,000l. and the import of this year was expected not to exceed that of last year. The petitioners were therefore anxious to receive some redress before the approaching vintage. At an earlier period of the session, he might have moved for a committee, and also for leave to bring in a Bill on the subject. At such an advanced period of the session, however, he could expect little benefit from any such measure, and the best mode of proceeding, probably, would be, to move an Address to the Prince Regent. Even this, however, he should not press, if it was understood that the matter would be taken up strongly by government, and was to be made the matter of discussion between the two countries. It might also be of service that it should be understood, if the Portuguese government was not disposed to do justice to our subjects, that there was an inclination on the part of our parliament to compel them. He recollected an instance in the Irish parliament, where, on a denial of justice, the duties on port wine were doubled, till the Portuguese agreed to fulfil their treaty, which they accordingly did in the course of that same session. He hoped government would now evince such a disposition, so that what he had now said might stand as a notice for next session, if the evil should not in the mean time have been remedied.
said, that the case was of sufficient national importance to induce enquiry. Some correspondence was at present on foot between our government and the Portuguese court at the Brazils; but owing to the great distance of the present seat of that court, some time mustelapse before an arrangement could take place. He thought it proper to observe, that some advantage was enjoyed by the British merchant, in having his goods imported at a lower tariff than the Portuguese have for the goods they send to this country; his Majesty's ministers, however, did not think that this was to be considered in any degree a compensation for the evil complained of by our merchants. From what he had stated, he thought the right hon. gentleman would see that it was not necessary to press the matter further during the present session.
professed himself satisfied with the noble lord's explanation, and merely wished that the Petition should be brought up.
thought that it was a case attended with considerable difficulty. He was of opinion, that the interests of the merchants of both countries should be attended to.
observed, that by the treaty, Portuguese subjects were placed on the same footing with British.
understood, that the stipulations of the treaty had not been very honourably fulfilled on the part of the Portuguese. Considering the relations of the two countries, he was surprised that any cause of complaint should exist against Portugal. He took that opportunity of enquiring whether it was true, that the slave trade of Portugal had increased? And if the case was so, why the stipulations regarding this trade were not fulfilled?
declared, that no exertion on his part should be wanting to carry into effect what the cause of humanity so loudly called upon him to support; but that in the present state of things, he did not think himself able to give so explicit an answer to the hon. gentleman's question as he could wish. He only knew that the Prince Regent of Portugal had professed himself anxious to support this part of the treaty, and that nothing should be wanting on the part of his Majesty's government to ensure the fulfilment of this particular article of it.
thought it proper to mention that it was reported, and very generally believed, that certain persons were employed by our government on the coast of Africa to pick up slaves for the purpose of recruiting the black regiments in the West Indies.
admitted that persons were employed on the coast to enlist free men who were willing to enter into the service; but that this enlistment was so free in its nature, that the persons so enlisted were allowed to remain for some time, that they might consider the nature of their engagements.
thought it was very injudicious on the part of government to employ persons on a service of a nature so likely to be abused. He therefore thought that a copy of the commission, authorising the enlistment, should be laid before the House, in order that the transaction might be examined in all its features, and that the House might correct any thing that was wrong.
had no objection to lay before the House copies of all the papers and correspondence on the subject.
The Petition was then brought up and read; setting forth,
"That the petitioners regret the indispensable necessity which they are under of submitting to the House this their humble Petition at such an advanced period of the session; but nothing short of their receiving the most immediate assistance from the House, can afford them the relief which they so much stand in need of, and which they have no doubt of obtaining when their Petition shall be considered; and that the petitioners were, for many years, concerned in the commerce of Portugal, particularly in the wine trade at Oporto; and that, in consequence of the invasion of that kingdom, they were driven from that country, and sustained great and heavy losses, but which, being caused by the aggression of the enemy, they bore with resignation, trusting that in the liberation of that country, by the glorious success of his Majesty's arms, and the defeat and entire expulsion of the enemy by the combined efforts of the allied army, they might look forward with confident hope of resuming their trade, freed from the numerous vexations and annoyances under which they had for many years laboured, and of which grievances his Majesty's ministers were highly sensible; and that it was with great satisfaction, the petitioners observed their hopes realized, as they imagined, by a Treaty of Amity, Commerce, and Navigation, concluded between his Majesty and his royal highness the Prince Regent of Portugal, professing to be founded upon a basis of reciprocity and mutual convevience, and adopting a liberal system of commerce, which, by discontinuing certain prohibitions and prohibitory duties, would procure the most solid advantages on both sides to the national productions and industry (to use the words of the 8th and 25th Articles of the Treaty), by declaring "That British subjects should not be restrained, interrupted, or otherwise affected by the operation of any monopoly, contract, or exclusive privileges of sale or purchase whatsoever; but that the subjects of Great Britain should have free and unrestricted permission to buy and sell from and to whomsoever and in whatever form or manner they might please, whether by wholesale or retail, without being obliged to give any preference or favour in consequence of the said monopolies, contracts, or exclusive privileges of sale or purchase;" and that, notwithstanding such treaty, the petitioners continue labouring under the same numerous oppressions which they for so many years suffered, by the continuance of the uncontrouled, arbitrary, and excessive power of the monopoly wine company, as has been long since repeatedly proved and acknowledged by the Lords of Trade, particularly in their lordships' Report to his Majesty in Council; and the petitioners, therefore, deem it unbecoming to trespass on the time of the House, by any detail beyond a reference to the said Report, wherein their lordships emphatically declare, "That the tendency and intention of that establishment was the exclusion of his Majesty's subjects from the traffic in the wines of Portugal;" and their lordships further observed, "It was not necessary to enter into a minute discussion with respect to many particular regulations of this Company, which they think justly objected to by the merchants, as highly grievous and oppressive;" for their lordships are of opinion, "that a fatal objection lies against them all, namely, that they all contribute to establish in the Company a monopoly against British subjects, from which, by treaty, they have a right to be exempted;" and that, since the ratification of the treaty, now two years ago, the petitioners collectively, and many of them individually, have at various times, most humbly represented to his Majesty's ministers, by petitions and memorials, that all the grievances, oppressions, and annoyances under which the British trade laboured, were continued with encreased effect, to the total exclusion of the petitioners from free trade at Oporto, which, by the stipulations of the late treaty, they were expressly allowed; and that the petitioners, as long ago as the 8th of April, 1811, in their Memorial to the Lords of Trade, prayed their lordships that, previously to the passing any acts of parliament for carrying into effect the provisions of the said Treaty of Commerce with his royal highness the Prince Regent of Portugal, an explicit declaration should be obtained on the part of the Portuguese government, expressly announcing and declaring, beyond all doubt, that, by the 8th and 25th Articles of the said Treaty, British subjects were absolutely exempted from the power and controul of the wine company at Oporto; and that, on that occasion, the petitioners were assured, that the said articles should be observed by the government of Portugal; and accordingly an act of parliament for carrying the provisions of the treaty into effect was passed on the 31st of May, 1811, 51 Geo. 3, c. 47; and by such act his Majesty's navigation laws were repealed in favour of the Portuguese in compliance with the said treaty on the part of his Majesty; and that, from the important concessions granted by that act to the Portuguese, on the firm reliance, that the government of Portugal would perform the said treaty on their part, and, from the constant assurances the petitioners received, they waited with great anxiety, though with confident hope, that they might resume their accustomed trade, with all the advantages which the said treaty held out; but the petitioners finding no relief; and the purchases of the wines of the last vintage approaching very near, a general meeting of the merchants was convened, who came to a resolution to apply to his Majesty's privy council on the subject; and on the 3d of November, 1811, a Petition was presented accordingly, in the words or to the effect following:—"We the undersigned, members of the late factory at Oporto, and merchants trading with Portugal, most humbly beg leave to represent to your lordships, the grievous disappointment and severe loss we suffer from the continual non-compliance with the stipulations of the late treaty of commerce ratified by his Majesty and his royal highness the Prince Regent of Portugal, particularly the 8th and 25th articles, on the due and bonâ fide performance of which (with respect to the monopoly of the Royal Wine Company at Oporto) rests the practicability of our being enabled to resume or continue our trade in that part of the kingdom: the numerous oppressions the British traders in Portugal have for many years experienced, and yet do experience, by the arbitrary and excessive power of that monopoly, have been so repeatedly represented and proved by the trade, and acknowledged by your lordships to be founded in fact, that we had firm reliance his Majesty's government would have obtained redress; it is, therefore, with great reluctance that we again feel ourselves compelled to address your lordships on the subject; we have waited with great anxiety until now for relief; but as the time of purchasing the wines of the vintage of this year is very near, we cannot longer delay most earnestly to solicit, through your lordships, his Majesty's government, that immediate measures be taken for the due performance of the 8th and 25th Articles of the Treaty, in order that British subjects may have free and unrestrained permission to buy and sell from and to whomsoever they may please, whether by wholesale or retail, and enjoy the same freedom of commerce in Portugal, as Portuguese subjects do here, in the purchase and sale of the produce and manufacture of this country: we beg leave to observe, from the long experience we have had of the conduct of the said Royal Wine Company, that we have just reason to apprehend no relief will be experienced by British subjects concerned in the wine trade at Oporto, unless the literal and bonâ fide observance of the said 8th and 25th articles is enforced by the acting government of Portugal, and the monopoly hitherto enjoyed by the said Royal Wine Company is immmediately and entirely annulled before they assume their power over the last vintage, which otherwise will be the case during the next month, which we solicit with confidence, as it has been repeatedly represented by the trade, and acknowledged by your lordships, that nothing short of a declared complete exemption of British subjects from their power and controul will suffice: we further most humbly pray your lordships will please to give us the earliest information of the determination of the Portuguese government, in order that many of us who are prepared to resume or commence trade with Oporto may act accordingly; for, unless the whole of the treaty is observed, it is in vain for British subjects to attempt to carry on trade under the serious disadvantages to which they are subjected by the non-performance of several articles of the treaty, particularly the 8th and 25th articles;"—and that the petitioners find, with great concern and disappointment, that the government of Lisbon, so far from carrying into effect the provisions of the treaty, did, by the secretary of state of Portugal, as long since as January last, notify to his Majesty's envoy at Lisbon a refusal to carry into effect the said 8th and 25th articles of the treaty, without further instructions from the government of Brazil; and that the petitioners most humbly represent to the House, that, by the refusal and delay in carrying into effect the several provisions of the treaty, not only the petitioners, but British subjects in general, are precluded from the free trade and commerce to which, by the said treaty, they are entitled, to the manifest loss and injury of his Majesty's government and revenue, as well as all persons concerned in the said trade, and also the shipping interest of his Majesty's realm, as the petitioners will proceed to show; and that it is an undoubted fact, that since the principal English merchants were driven from Oporto by the enemy, and prevented engaging in a free trade there, by the monopoly, the price of wine in Portugal is verty grealy increased, and is more than treble what the petitioners remember, and the importation is greatly decreased in consequence; and that the average importation into the united empire for a series of former years exceeded annually 50,000 pipes, producing a revenue of upwards of 2,500,000l. sterling, the export from Oporto last year was only 18,536 pipes, which will produce only abou 900,000l. sterling, and the import of this year is not expected to exceed that of last, whereby other losses are also sustained by the consequent diminution of freightage and other mercantile advantages; and that the petitioners beg leave to represent to the House, that as the refusal of the court of Lisbon to carry the provision of the treaty into effect without further instructions from the court of Brazil, was in January last, ample time has elapsed for such instructions to arrive, and it is very essential to the interests of all concerned in the commerce, particularly British subjects, that measures be speedily taken for carrying into effect all the provisions of the treaty, particularly the 8th and 25th articles, previous to the approaching vintage in September next, and that the government of Portugal should issue timely proclamation thereof, to the intent that the monopoly company and the farmers, within and without the district which the Bri- tish are at present restricted to purchase in, may have due notice thereof; and that the petitioners further beg to represent to the House, that some difficulties have arisen respecting the 7th and 16th articles of the said treaty, which it is very desirable should be set at rest; and the petitioners, under these circumstances, humbly pray the House will be pleased to take such measures for their relief as they shall deem expedient, and that the most immediate measures be adopted for carrying into effect all the said provisions of the said treaty, and particularly that the petitioners may have the advantages of the 8th and 25th articles at the approaching wine season, and be thereby enabled to trade at Oporto, and throughout Portugal, with the same free purchase, sale and exportation of all wines, brandies, vinegars, and all other produce of Portugal, and to make brandies, wines and vinegars for their own use, sale or exportation, in conformity with the said treaty, and that the provisions of the 7th and 16th articles may be also observed with all due dispatch, or that the House will take such measures on the occasion as the urgency of the case shall seem to require."
Ordered to lie upon the table.