, after an eulogy on the character of the West India planters, who he said in accomplishments and humanity were equal to the most polished society of England; and after several other remarks delivered in too low a tone to be heard distinctly in the gallery, moved that an Address be presented to the Prince Regent for a copy of the speech of governor Eliott, on his arrival at Antigua; and for a copy of his letter to lord Liverpool, in which were contained some charges against the planters of the Leeward islands. He stated it to be his intention, unless the matter were taken up by government, to bring forward some motion in justification of the planters.

observed, that the observations of governor Eliott were made to justify his own conduct, and were not intended to reflect disgrace on the body of the West India planters.

said, he was not aware of the motion of his hon. friend, until he saw his notice in the papers of this morning, and though he admitted that at this late period of the session no useful object could be attained by the discussion, yet he saw nothing in the objections of the noble lord to prevent the papers being laid upon the table, as the foundation of any motion which his hon. friend might make upon them in the next session. Connected as he was with the island of Antigua by ties of public duty, and private friendship dear to his heart, it was matter of the greatest satisfaction to him, to hear the injurious representations of Mr. Eliott repelled by the high and disinterested authority of his hon. friend, He had himself spent ten of the happiest years of his life in the island of Antigua, and he should do a violence to his own feelings if he were to hesitate to express his cordial concurrence in the just description which had been given by his hon. friend of the state of society, and of the high honour and integrity of the public administration of that island; there were indeed in that island, as his hon. friend had truly stated, men who would adorn and distinguish any society on earth, men of as enlightened minds, and of as honourable feelings as were to be found in any part of his Majesty's dominions; and the general character of its public administration needed not the aid of his feeble testimony. It had been the subject of general commendation of all persons who had visited the colonies in any public authority, and he might with confidence look to the concurring testimony of the opposite bench in this respect. But while he endeavoured to rescue the island of Antigua, from the application of Mr. Eliott's remarks, let it not be thought, that he admitted the justice or the fairness of their application to the other islands of his government; on the contrary, as far as his own knowledge went, he firmly believed them to be unfounded and unjust in the general sense in which Mr. Eliott had used them; but there were circumstances connected with this case not to be passed over, which destroyed the credit of Mr. Eliott's opinions. At the very time that he took upon himself to pronounce so general a condemnation of whole communities, he had not in fact visited more than one of the islands to which his observations were thought to apply. He had landed in the island of Antigua, the seat of his government, where he had remained up to the date of his public letter, with the exception of a short visit to the island of Montserrat, and yet, without the opportunity of any personal observation, without the means of acquiring that intimate accurate personal knowledge upon which alone his opinions ought to be founded, he takes upon himself to pronounce a general sweeping charge of moral and intellectual incompetency for the common duties of civilized life against the whole communities of the different islands of his government. But the error of Mr. Eliott's conduct does not rest here. He appears to have moulded his opinions of the general state of his government, according to his own notion of the temper and feelings of those to whom those opinions were expressed. At the very period of his public letter in which he boldly ventures to pronounce the state of society as unfit for the duties of legislators or jurors, at that very period of time he declares in other letters, as his hon. friend had informed the House, that he had met with many men of very superior talents and endowments, men of great suavity of manners, with whom he could with pleasure pass the residue of his life; these were circumstances which altogether discredited the judgment of Mr. Eliott, and went a great way to prove his utter disqualification for the high situation which he held. It betrayed, to say the least of it, a gross inconsistency, ill-suited to the gravity and importance of the occasion on which he was writing, and forcibly pointed out to the noble lord the necessity of his recall. It was impossible that under the general feeling towards Mr. Eliott, that the public interests, under his administration, could be maintained in a spirit of union and affection, or the public authority supported in a spirit of dignity and respect; even if his opinions had rested upon something of a foundation, after they had beeen announced to the world, (whether discreetly or not he would not stop to enquire,) it was impossible to suppose that Mr. Eliott could remain in the government, with any satisfaction to himself, or with any advantage to the public interests; but discredited as they were by Mr. Eliott himself, unfounded as they were in the judgment of others, it would be little short of madness to continue him in an authority which he could not exercise in the hearts and in the affections of the people. He gave therefore his support to the motion, in an anxious hope that a more ample discussion should be had upon the subject.

said, that the remarks of governor Eliott were called for in vindication of his own conduct. He allowed, that among the planters there were men of exemplary humanity,—the more to be admired, as in a state where negro-slavery was allowed there must be a perpetual tendency to harden and corrupt the mind; but this humanity, he was sorry to say, especially among the lower orders, was not extended to the black population. What had been the case at St. Kitts, and at Tortola? At the first place a man, who had been guilty of the most cruel enormities towards his slaves, had been acquitted; and a printer had been indicted, convicted, and imprisoned, for publishing merely an ungarbled statement of the trial. At Tortola, when Hodges had been found guilty of murder—one murder out of fifty of the most sa- vage description—what had been the difficulty? Not to prevent, as might be expected, a premature exection by an indignant populace, but to enforce the execution. The governor had been forced to leave the seat of government, to proclaim martial law in Tortola, and to reside there 10 days to prevent disturbance,—and this was necessary by reason of the prejudices of the white population against those unfortunate beings who were of a different colour from themselves. He thought, therefore, that governor Eliott was justified in the statement which he had made.

said, he was no apologist for the crimes either of Mr. Hodge or Mr. Huggins, and that he gave full credit to Mr. Eliott for his firmness in carrying the sentence of Mr. Hodge into execution, but he was desirous of setting the hon. gentleman right with respect to the general feeling of the whites upon that subject. It was unfairly insinuated by Mr. Eliott that a resistance to his execution was to be expected; on the contrary, he had been informed, and he believed it to be true, that the whole population was clamorous for the execution. He had had that information from persons who were on the spot at the time, and the measure of calling out the militia was decisive upon the point. The militia is composed of the whole white population, as the hon. gentleman very well knew: and if a resistance was to be expected from that class, Mr. E. could not have been so unwise as to trust the militia with arms to do that which they were resisting without arms. It was true, and it was to be lamented, that the jury, or a majority of the jury, did recommend Hodge to mercy; but the sense of the whole white population was not to be conclusively deduced from that circumstance. And he firmly believed from every information he had had, and from the dependance which Mr. Eliott himself placed on the militia, that the public voice demanded, rather than resisted the execution.

also bore testimony, from his personal knowledge of the island of Tortola, that the majority of the white population were decidedly for the execution of that scoundrel (Mr. Hodge). As to Mr. Huggins, he believed that the jury could not legally convict him; but his conduct was so reprobated that there was hardly a whiie inhabitant of respectability in any of the islands who would associate with him.

, in explanation, said, that he had by no means meant to confine his charge of barbarous antipathy to the blacks, to the lower orders of the whites. Mr. Hughes and Mr. Huggins, for example, belonged to the richer classes.

regretted much that ever this paper had been made public; and he hoped the inconvenience of the publicity would be a caution to members who were about moving for the production of similar papers, as when they were once ordered to be laid on the table of the House, it was impossible to avoid publicity. He then suggested to the hon. mover, whether it would not be as well to postpone this motion till next session.

The motion was then withdrawn.

rose to move for the production of certain papers relative to Army Agents. He expressed his regret that he had not the good fortune to be a member of the House in an early part of the session, otherwise he should have considered it his bounden duty to have followed up those motions which he made in the year 1807 on this subject, and to have asked leave to bring in a Bill for superseding the present mode of conducting the army business through private agents, by the appointment of a general Board of Agency under the authority of the legislature. The present session being so near its termination, it was impossible to bring in a Bill of such magnitude and importance now; all that could be done, therefore, was to move for certain papers and documents, that members during the recess might be enabled to form a correct judgment on the measure, which he should consider it his duty to bring under their view early in the next session. The object of the Bill, which he should then have the honour of submitting to their consideration, would be to abolish the present mode of agency, and to substitute in its place a general board of agency; the members of which to be selected from the most respectable of the present agents. By the adoption of this plan, an immense annual saving would accrue to the public, amply sufficient to increase the pay of the subalterns in the army, independent of the important consideration that it would secure the faithful application of the public monies, which are now exposed to great risk, by suffering immense sums to be issued monthly in advance to army agents, without adequate securities. The House might be told that the colonels of regiments were responsible for the army agents; but it should be recollected, that many of those officers were soldiers of fortune, however brave and deserving, and it was not fit that they should be responsible. He was sure that it would be impossible to find sufficient security in several cases. The house of Messrs. Greenwood, who had only 23 regiments when the duke of York was appointed Commander in Chief, are now agents for 176 battalions of the line, out of 284 which constitute the British establishment; and they also are agents for 15 regiments of militia, for the whole of the artillery, and different branches under the Board of Ordnance. Such an immense accumulation of public business, in the hands of one private house, ought always to be viewed with extreme caution by the government of this country; for in what a situation would the whole army and all the public officers of his Majesty's government be placed, were such a house to stop payment! The hon. gentleman did not mean to call in question the honour, integrity, and credit of Messrs. Greenwood's house: he knew that gentleman well, and that he had done many good and generous acts; but as a member of parliament he was of opinion, that such a vast accumulation of public business should not be entrusted to one individual, however high his credit and character may be. We had lately seen houses of the greatest respectability, even as high in credit as Messrs. Greenwoods, stop payment; and therefore it was an imperious duty on that House, even before they separated, to make the necessary arrangements for the security of the public money. Let gentlemen recollect, that independent of Messrs. Greenwood's being agents for almost the whole army, they are also private bankers, and that the profits of bankers arise, either from discounting bills, or gambling in the funds. If he was correctly informed, Mr. Greenwood receives at least 80,000l. a year from government for his trouble, independent of the benefit which must result to him, from the immense issues of public money for the pay of the army, which he receives always one month in advance. Why such an expensive and hazardous system should be persisted in after the very able opinions now on the table of the House, recommending the appointment of a board, under the authority of the legislature, he would not now stop to enquire; he was not one of those who supposed it was continued, because Mr. Greenwood is agent for 45 members of parliament—No, he attributed it to an influence in another quarter; but he trusted the House would exert that energy and spirit, which was their bounden duty, in putting an end to a system, calculated only to enrich individuals at the expence of the public, when the subject shall be brought before them early next session. Upon the proposed plan of abolishing army agents, there might be a diversity of opinions; but surely, in regard to placing the public monies in a state of security, there could be none. Agreeable to the present regulations, the army agents receive the pay of the army one month in advance; consequently the advances to such a house as Messrs. Green-woods, who have monopolized almost the whole army, must be enormous and incredible. The hon. gentleman said, he had perused with particular satisfaction a Bill lately passed through the House, for regulating the office of agent general for the volunteers and local militia. In that Bill had been inserted a very proper clause, enacting, that all Bills drawn by the said agent for public services, should be made payable at the Bank of England. Why had not a similar Bill been brought in to place the public monies, now entrusted to army agents, in the same state of security? He knew of no good reason against such a measure, and he trusted, that before the House separated, his Majesty's ministers would attend to it. The issues for the volunteers and local militia did not exceed 1,200,000l. a year, while those to army agents amount to more than 12,000,000l. several millions of which must pass through the house of Messrs. Green-woods alone, without any adequate security. He therefore trusted, government would adopt the same regulations for the security of public monies entrusted to army agents, that had been so wisely applied to the office of agent general for volunteers and local militia, the establishment of which office alone saved 30,000l. a year to the government. He was confident, two most important benefits would result from such an arrangement:—1st, Security of the public monies; and 2dly, That regimental accounts would be much sooner audited, for there could be no doubt that what retarded their adjustment, arose principally from the large sums of money remaining in the agents' hands, who threw every obstacle in the way of settling the accounts, in order that they might longer retain the balances in their hands. The country is now paying 40,000l. a year for auditing public accounts—no measure would tend to reduce that expence more than adopting the wise regulation of placing all public monies in the Bank of England, and making all public bills payable there. The hon. gentleman concluded by moving for those papers he conceived necessary for the House to form a correct judgment on the propriety of the motion he should have the honour of submitting to their consideration next session: namely, for leave to bring in a Bill to abolish the present mode of conducting army business by private agents: and to appoint in their stead a Board of Agency under the sanction of the legislature, the members of which to be selected from the most respectable of the present army agents. The hon. gentleman then moved the following Resolutions:—'1st, That there be laid before this House an Account of the annual sums of money paid or due to each and every of the army agents in Great Britain and Ireland, by way of compensation for their trouble in the affairs of the different regiments, or any business entrusted to their care, comprehending every regiment or corps of whatever description paid by Great Britain or Ireland, specifying the names of those agents, and the amount paid or due to each, from the 25th day of December, 1810, to the 24th day of December, 1811; and that the said return be made out in numerical order, agreeable to the lists of the army, militia, fencibles, &c. &c. published by authority.—2d, That there be laid before this House an Account of the annual sums of money paid or due to each and every of the army agents, by way of compensation for their trouble in the management of the royal artillery, royal engineers, brigade of royal artillery drivers, waggon train, or any other corps or body of men paid by the Board of Ordnance, specifying the names of those agents, and the amount paid or due to each, from the 25th day of December, 1810, to the 24th day of December, 1811.—3d, That there be laid before this House a Statement of the sums of money paid annually to each and every of the army agents, for pay, staff, contingencies, &c. for the regiments of the line, militia, or otherwise, under their agency, from the 25th day of December, 1810, to the 24th day of December, 1811; for what periods these payments are made in advance, and the names of those agents who receive the same, with the amount of the securities, (if any) given by them for the faithful discharge of the trust reposed in them.—4th, That there be laid before this House a statement of the sums of money paid annually by the Board of Ordnance to each and every of the army agents, for the pay, staff, contingencies, &c. for the royal artillery, royal engineers, or any other corps or body of men in that department, from the 25th day of December, 1810, to the 24th day of December, 1811; for what periods these payments are made in advance, and the names of those agents who receive the same, with the amount of the securities (if any) given by them for the faithful discharge of the trust reposed in them.—5th, That there be laid before this House a statement of the balances, to the latest period, for or against the army agents, as far as they have been able to be ascertained by the books of the Pay-office, and the documents in the War office; and from what period these balances have been due.—6th, That there be laid before this House a state of the balances, to the latest periods, for or against any of the agents in the department of the Board of Ordnance, as far as they have been able to be ascertained; and from what period these balances have been due.—7th, That there be laid before this House a Statement of the annual expence attending the department of the paymaster of the royal marines, from the 25th day of December, 1810, to the 24th day of December, 1811, with a return of the number of marines on the establishment for that period."

did not rise to oppose the Resolutions generally, but he thought, when the balances due by the agents to the public were called for, in point of fairness, those due by the public to the agents should be forthcoming—(Mr. Johnstone said across the table, that the Resolutions were so framed as to embrace both.) In fact, large balances had been due to them, in consequence of the perplexity of the regimental accounts, which retarded their examination; but the present Secretary at War had turned his attention to the subject, and had established system which would enable them to make a progress in those accounts, the difficulty of examining which should not be refer- red to the agents, but to the regimental paymasters. A large sum of money he knew was owing by the public to Mr. Greenwood, and the Secretary at War, in consequence, found it necessary to order a payment to be made to him; and vet the impression conveyed by the speech of the hon. gentleman was, that the public money was paid at risk, and that sums were due by Mr. Greenwood to the public. He wished that the motion for the account of the balances might be deferred, until the accounts were in a more forward state. He was sure the hon. gentleman would find it very difficult to carry the plan of a general agency into effect, which would entirely alter the present mode of payment pursued in the army. As to any influence to procure the agency of regiments, he knew of none. The colonels employed the agents as their servants, and became security for them; whether that security was sufficient, was another thing.

said, it was an undoubted fact, that the agents had sums due to them. One house had failed to whom government owed a large balance, and he believed the account was not settled to this hour. He thought it unfair in the hon. gentleman (Mr. Johnstone) to particularize one house, instead of speaking generally. In the course of his speech, he had observed, that Mr. Greenwood was employed by 45 members of parliament, and he had also spoken of a higher power. Did he mean to say, that that higher power participated in the profits of the agent? When he mentioned the 176 battalions, he must surely have known that every colonel appointed his own agent; and if the higher character of Mr. Greenwood over other agents drew such a number to him, it redounded greatly to his credit, for he believed no influence whatever was used.

could see no reason why there should not be an uniform mode for the payment of the army, and a board appointed to superintend it. It appeared very suspicious that one man should have engrossed almost the whole agency of the army. If, as was said, an intimacy subsisted between the gentleman alluded to and the duke of York, it was not then difficult to perceive the influence that occasioned this monopoly, for it could not be considered wonderful that the colonels of regiments should have that connection in view. Mr. Greenwood's business alone was probably worth from 60 to 80,000l. per annum, but he was sure that if a board was appointed, a very great saving would accrue to the public.—The right hon. gentleman (Mr. Long) observed, that several of the agents, particularly Mr. Greenwood, had balances due to them from government. He believed that the public money was always greatly in advance to the agents, and it was infinitely better that it should be lodged in the Bank of England, and the bills for the different services be made payable there, as was the case in the Bill lately passed for regulating the office of agent-general for the volunteers and local militia.—When the right hon. gentleman spoke of the regimental accounts not being made up, he thought it argued a great deal of neglect, and that it ought to be inquired into. Sir Francis referred to the cases of several agents who had made away with themselves, particularly Mr. Hesse, and that the House ought to know what balances were owing by them.

said, while he held the situation at present occupied by his right hon. friend (Mr. Long), he endeavoured to bring those accounts to a settlement; and that it had not been done arose not from a dereliction of duty in the persons connected with the Pay-office, but from the extreme difficulty attending regimental accounts. The agents, he could aver, in many instances, had large sums due to them from the public, and, with respect to Mr. Greenwood, that was the case. He did not know that gentleman—he never conversed with him in his life; but it was due to his character to state, that he believed no man could conduct himself more honourably. The idea of a general agency was not new, but though some advantages might be derived from it, they would be greatly outweighed by the evils it would probably occasion.

was of opinion, that the Reports of the Commissioners of Military Inquiry had been shamefully neglected. If their suggestions had been followed, in his opinion, all this confusion of accounts would have been avoided. The country had been put to an enormous expence for enquiries into various branches of the public service; 50 or 60,000l. had been paid to commissioners; and he could wish to have it shewn that great practical benefits had resulted from those labours.

wished merely to state his perfect conviction, that the insinuation of an improper influence being exerted to give a monopoly of regimental agencies to a particular individual was utterly unfounded. He believed there never had been an interference of any kind made use of by the personage alluded to.

said, that the Bill introduced by Mr. Burke, which directed a different account to be opened for every regiment of the line, and rendered a variety of details necessary, rendered it impracticable for any Secretary at War to investigate them all. When every soldier in the army had his separate account, it was natural that there should be much perplexity and confusion: it was therefore impossible to go through the accounts with all the celerity which the public interest required. If there was a defect in the system, it arose from an attempt to produce a very great degree of accuracy. He knew if that accuracy was not preserved, the work would be sooner performed; but by giving up a fraction here and there, a very serious loss would result. Therefore the Secretary at War was at present endeavouring to draw up the accounts on the plan laid down in Mr. Burke's Bill. There was no doubt that large sums had been due to Mr. Greenwood from the public. As to the influence of a higher power, which had been alluded to, he thought it would be more just if the hon. gentleman, instead of dealing in insinuations, would make a direct charge. The fact was, the colonel of every regiment appointed his own agent, and what authority was there to interfere with that right? For his own part, he never heard of any such interference on the part of the duke of York. When the hon. gentleman said that the public money was placed at risk, because Mr. Greenwood had so many agencies, he could not help expressing his belief that it was as safe in his hands as in those of any other agent.

said, the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Long) had no right to attack him as wishing to have an account only of the balances against the agents: the words of one of the Resolutions expressly were,—"for and against." He also stated, that when he made a similar motion in 1807 for balances, the right hon. gentleman then replied, that it would be impossible to give it, from the complicated state of the accounts. He had received the same answer now, and he dared say the same answer would be given twenty years after this. In speaking of the house of Greenwood, he meant not to cast any reflection on it. Mr. Greenwood he knew to be a man who had performed many excellent acts, but on public grounds he did not think it right that an individual should monopolize almost the whole army, and what he stated would apply to all army agents. The hon. gentleman was aware that the present system of pay lists was complex, and he suggested the propriety of making them out only twice a-year instead of four times, which would reduce the number of accounts to be examined. To this he particularly called the attention of the House, that no answer had been given to his suggestion for lodging the monies in the bank of England; and that all bills should be made payable there, as is the case with the agent general for volunteers and local militia. There might be a diversity of opinion with respect to a board of agency, but none could exist as to putting the money in pertect security. By one individual house monopolizing almost the whole army, the public monies were undoubtedly exposed to greater risk than by dividing the business in the hands of other agents.

, thought, in the present state of public credit, the hon. gentleman should have been perfectly sure that a large balance was due by Mr. Greenwood before he made the assertion, and he did not see why that gentleman should be particularly alluded to.

here interrupted Mr. Martin, and stated, that he was in the judgment of the House, if he had ever said that any balance was due by Mr. Greenwood, or any other house. All he stated was, and he still maintained his opinion, that Mr. Greenwood did not find security sufficient for the enormous sums of money which passed through his hands, and which were always paid one month in advance. In referring particularly to Mr. Greenwood, it was because he really was almost the only agent, having monopolized the greatest part of the army.

did not mean to say that the hon. gentleman did, in direct terms, assert that Mr. Greenwood was a considerable debtor to the public; but it must be in the recollection of every gentleman present, that, by insinuation, it was so to be understood; for of what importance was it to the public that large sums were received by the House if they were repaid? Such an insinuation, out of doors, would render a man liable to a heavy action. He was glad to hear it asserted, by those who had the opportunity of knowing the fact, that there was, upon the whole, looking to the receipt and expenditure, a balance due by the public to that respectable house.

The Resolutions were put and carried nem. con.