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Commons Chamber

Volume 25: debated on Tuesday 16 March 1813

House of Commons

Tuesday, March 16, 1813.

Election Ballots

The House was occupied this day, until five o'clock, in balloting for two committees to inquire into the merits of the Election Petitions from Cardigan and Youghall.

An apology having been offered to the House, Shortly after the admission of strangers, for the absence of Mr. Hart Davis, who was present at the first ballot but absent at the second,

said, the immediate presence of the hon. member was necessary, and intimated the propriety of any gentleman who might know where he was, of communicating to him that circumstance.

addressed him, and said, that it had come to the knowledge of the House that he was absent during the second ballot that day, although present at the first. Of this irregularity, the House required an explanation, as it was in direct opposition to their standing orders.

expressed his ignorance of the necessity for his attendance at the second ballot when present at the first. He begged to apologise, however, for the impropriety of his conduct.

remarked, that the apology of the hon. member was perfectly proper: it was fit, however, it should be distinctly understood, that between two ballots no member was allowed to go forth. Orders to this effect had long been established, and a compliance with them was essential to prevent the endless confusion which would otherwise arise.

The Princess of Wales

said, it had been proposed to him, to defer his motion for to-morrow, on account of its being the anniversary of a day set apart for the meeting of a benevolent and patriotic society; but he thought the subject of his motion of such great and immediate importance, that he felt that he should best consult his duty by persisting in it. He should be ready in his place to-morrow to bring it forward, if the attendance of the House was such as to encourage him to go on; and he hoped that every son of St. Patrick, from the noble Secretary of State to the meanest citizen, would agree that the day could not be better kept, than by an endeavour to do justice to an injured woman.

Fire-arms Bill

rose to move the second reading of this Bill, in doing which he stated the object of the Bill to be, to force the manufacturers of fire-arms, to put their own names on the article they manufactured and not to substitute that of other persons. He observed that the public were constantly exposed to imposition from spurious articles of this description, of Birmingham manufacture, being exposed for sale, with the names of the most celebrated London gun-smiths forged upon them, when, in truth, they had never been seen by the person whose workmanship they purported to be. The obvious consequence of this injurious practice was, that men of eminence in the line to which he alluded were often exposed to blame which they did not deserve, and their character, as first-rate workmen, became questioned, without the slightest ground. The hon. baronet then pointed out the great advantages which had been derived in the linen and other trades, by forcing the different manufacturers to put their own stamps upon the articles which they sent to market for sale, and expressed a hope that the House would see the expediency as well as justice of the Bill. The hon. baronet also quoted the opinion of judge Mansfield in support of his arguments, and adverted to a charge which had been given by that learned individual to a jury, in a case in which the name of a celebrated artist had been surreptitiously prefixed to an article of spurious manufacture. The learned judge in that case, in dwelling on the difference between a forgery on paper and a forgery on a manufactured article, observed, that in the former case an injury could only be done in a limited degree, whereas, in the latter, the fame of the artist being exposed to question by the improper use of his name, his own hopes and that of his family might be utterly destroyed; inferring, therefore, that the latter offence was far more iniquitous than the former.

opposed the introduction of the Bill, upon the ground, that almost certain destruction would result from its effects upon several thousand industrious manufacturers in Birmingham and elsewhere, without the probability of any advantage being derived from it by the public. Large orders, he said, were constantly sent by the London dealers to Birmingham, for the very article, of which it was now said they were the sole manufacturers, and by their express orders their names, and the word "London," were constantly affixed. In truth, all they did to stamp upon the article sterling value and unquestionable excellence, was, to give it a few ornamental touches, a little varnish, or a little bronzing. He trusted the House, under these circumstances, would not legislate upon a subject which would risk the employment of numberless skilful and valuable workmen. He added, that it was well known, that almost all the musquets for the use of the army were manufactured at Birmingham, and. that the stamp of "G. R." and "The Tower" was prefixed to them. The lives and safety of our gallant countrymen fighting in Spain and Portugal, therefore, it would appear, were of no consequence, while the safety of a few gentlemen, who took the diversion of shooting, was a matter of serious import. Considering, as he did, the Bill to be wholly unnecessary, as well as, if passed, extremely injurious, he begged leave to move, "That it be read that day six months."

said, he should not give his vote for the Bill. He had not the slightest objection to the word "London" being stamped on guns manufactured at Birmingham; but he did think it highly improper that the names of eminent ma- nufacturers should be used without their concurrence, as by such a course currency was given to an inferior commodity, and the public were exposed to imposition. He had heard an anecdote, which was illustrative of the objection which he had made. Some time back a person called on Manton, the celebrated gun-smith in Dover-street, and ordered him to make a double-barrelled gun in his best manner, observing at the same time, that if it was approved he should have an order for several more, The gun was accordingly, made, the promised order was not however given, but the gun which Manton had made was sent to Birmingham, and three dozen were made there of inferior quality and of inferior price, which in appearance, in name, and other respects, exactly resembled the model, and these were ail sent to the nabob of Oude, as the manufacture of Manton Against such impositions as these he thought it, proper the public should be guarded, but he could not accede to the general terms of the Bill before the House. He understood, that a proof-house was about to be established at Birmingham, and that this had arisen out of the present Bill; of this circumstance he was glad to hear, and had only to hope, that the Bill would be thrown out, and the proof-house erected on its ruins.

spoke against it, and said that the promoters of the Bill had been unable, when before the Committee, to prove one instance in which they had sustained any injury from the practice of which they complained.

supported the Bill. He would vote for the second reading, being convinced that by going into a committee the Bill might be rendered beneficial to the country.

opposed the Bill, on the ground that if adopted it would induce many of the Birmingham manufacturers to settle in London, and thus augment the population of the already overgrown metropolis.

opposed the Bill; as of an injurious tendency towards his constituents.

replied, and the House. divided,

For the second reading

18

Against it

78

Majority against the Bill

—60