House of Commons
Monday, May 3, 1813.
Petition Respecting the Cotton Trade, From Persons in the Private East India Trade
A Petition of several merchants of London, agents for persons in the East Indies, engaged in the private East India trade, was presented and read; setting forth,
"That various parts of the British territories in India are peculiarly adapted for the cultivation of cotton wool, which, under suitable encouragement for the conveyance thereof to this country, is capable of affording a constant supply to the British manufacturers at the cheapest rate; and that, for several years past, cotton wool has actually formed a considerable article of import from British India both on account of the East India Company and private merchants, by which the resources of those territories have been improved, the shipping and navigation of Great Britain have been extended, and the demands of the manufactories for so essential a raw material have been secured at periods when the supply from other countries has been interrupted or withheld: and that, when the government of the United States of America began that system of aggression and unjust policy towards Great Britain, which has at length terminated in unprovoked war, the petitioners and their constituents were induced, by the direct encouragement of his Majesty's government, as well as by their own anticipation of the necessary result of those hostile measures which the American government had long pursued, to exert their endeavours to procure a larger importation of cotton wool from British India, in order, as much as possible, to render this country independent of the policy of a foreign enemy for an article so important to our manufactories; and that under those circumstances, the quantity of cotton imported from India, from the period of the American embargo, has amounted to 46,185,476 pounds weight, whereof 25,822,216 pounds have been consumed by our manufacturers, and the remainder, being 20,363,260 pounds is now in the Company's warehouses; and that the policy of the American government, during the period of real hostility which preceded the declaration of open war, was directed rather against the introduction of the produce and manufactures of Great Britain into the United States, than to prevent the export of articles such as cotton wool, the cultivation of which is essential to their own agriculture; hence, at a time when British manufactures were rigorously and effectually excluded from the United States, very large supplies of American cotton found their way to this country, by which the Americans were enabled to inflict upon Great Britain all the inconveniences of that commercial warfare from which they themselves were in a great measure exempted; this state of things necessarily caused a great drain of specie at a time when it was particularly required for military as well as commercial purposes; the injurious operation of these causes was clearly demonstrated by the state of the exchange between the two countries for some time prior to the declaration of war, and might have been prevented by a seasonable retaliation of that policy on which the American Non-intercourse Act was founded; and that the consequence of the indulgence permitted to the Americans was that the British market was glutted with a supply of cotton as well from the United States as from the Brazils, the West Indies, and the British territories in India; and that the surplus quantity of Surat cotton, which was in hand on the 28th of February last, amounted to 66,119 bales, weighing about 20 millions of pounds over and above a large quantity of West India and Brazil cotton; this superabundance of supply which depressed the market below the price which could yield a fair return to the grower, was occasioned also by the accumulation which bad taken place in the United States from the impediments of the Embargo and Non-intercourse Acts, and which therefore was sent by the American grower to a market at any price to prevent that total loss which would otherwise have been experienced; the effect of this glut of produce, proceeding from such causes, naturally was, that the petitioners and other holders of cotton, who would have been able to sustain the competition of American cotton brought to market at the price which in ordinary times the grower could have afforded to accept, had no opportunity of selling their commodity but at a most ruinous loss; and that the petitioners had entertained the reasonable expectation that the policy of encouraging the agriculture and resources of the United States, at a time when they were co-operating with our implacable enemy for the downfall of the commerce and prosperity of Great Britain, would have terminated with the hopes of conciliation, which, till the declaration of war, on the part of America, might have been indulged; and they flattered themselves that they would at length have been enabled to obtain for their cotton imported under the encouragement of his Majesty's government, and for the purpose of rendering the British manufacturer independent of American supply, that adequate price in which they had been disappointed by the admission allowed to the produce of the United States; and that the petitioners were not deceived in their expectations, as, in consequence of the declaration of war, on the part of the United States, the demand for East India cotton daily increased, and they had the prospect of such a price as would have afforded a fair return to the grower and importer; and that this prospect has again been checked by the arrival of a neutral vessel laden with cotton from the United States, and the opinion entertained that a supply of cotton from that country will continue to be received during the war, under the provisions of the 43d Geo. 3, cap. 153; and that the petitioners are compelled, therefore, most humbly to submit to the House the grievance and injury which must result to them, and, in their apprehension, ultimately to the whole country, should this act of parliament, passed in circumstances very different from the present, be allowed to remain in force; and that the petitioners are perfectly sensible of the importance of obtaining a supply of cotton wool at a price that shall be consistent with the prosperity of the manufactures of which it is the raw material, and that such supply ought not to be sacrificed, although incidentally our enemies might participate in the benefits of the measures by which it is secured; but they hope to satisfy the House that the interests of the British manufacturer may be effectually guarded without resorting to a system of policy which would relieve the United States from the chief pressure and inconvenience of the war they have provoked; and that the petitioners need not remind the House that great quantities of cotton are imported from the West Indies and the Brazils, for which the manufactured article constitutes the fund of payment, so that the manufacturer enjoys the advantage of extending the consumption of his manufacture by consuming in return the raw material of his customer, an advantage totally lost in the present circumstances, if a preference is given to the produce of the United States; and that the importation, of cotton from India has rapidly increased under discouragements and difficulties from which it is likely to be relieved, and there can be no doubt that the quality of the article itself will be improved, and adapted to the market for which it is intended: the chief objection hitherto made by the consumer to the India cotton, arises not from any inferiority in the cotton itself, but from the manner in which it is gathered: this objection is already in a great degree obviated, and will no doubt he entirely removed, insomuch that some of the cotton lately imported from India has been found equal, if not superior, to the cotton of the United States, while it has the peculiar recommendation of being better adapted to the manufacture of cloths intended to be printed, as more easily taking the dye; and that another objection urged against the East India cotton is, that the staple is too short, and is not so easily worked by the machinery used in this country; the petitioners are, however, informed, and ready to prove, that by a slight alteration of the machinery, which in various instances has already been adopted, and by an intermixture of Brazil cotton, this objection is entirely removed, and the India cotton can be as easily worked up as the best bowed Georgias, and, as generally happens too in such cases, the manufacturer accustomed to the article loses the prejudices he first entertained against it; and that the facilities which are likely to be obtained for the transport of the India cotton, and the improvement of the cultivation in India, will enable the importer to afford the article to the manufacturer on terms more favourable than he can obtain it from any other market; and that, on the other hand, the unrestrained admission of cotton from the United States would ultimately prove an essential injury to the manufacturer himself, by driving the competition of the Brazil and India cotton wholly from the market, and leaving the supply in the hands of the American grower without a rival; and that it is not to be expected that the petitioners or their constituents would continue to import cotton at positive loss, and the manufacturer would at last be, in a great degree, at the mercy of a foreign enemy for the raw material, and really be compelled to pay to the American grower that exorbitant price which he unjustly apprehends he may be obliged to give to the growers in the British dominions, or the territories of our allies: it is not, therefore, the interest of the manufacturers, even in that character, much less in that of members of the community at large, to encourage the industry and resources of the country with which we are engaged in a just and unavoidable war; and that independently of the interest of the manufacturers concerned in the use of cotton, which the petitioners humbly submit will be perfectly secured, the interest of the state, in a more enlarged view, Will be consulted by the absolute prohibition of the importation of cotton from the United States; and that, by the encouragement of cotton from India, the capital of British subjects, or of nations under the protection of Great Britain, will be promoted, the shipping of this country will be extended, the number of its seamen for peace or for war will be augmented, while its resources will be increased by the profits on every transaction by which the supply is brought to Great Britain; and that, on the other hand, if the cotton of the United States is encouraged, the interests of British subjects are sacrificed, and the advantages thrown into the scale of our enemies, American agriculture will be cherished, American capital will, under neutral disguise, be employed in the shipping and navigation that must be requred to carry on the neutral trade in American cotton, and the United State will feel little pressure from the war, whereas the exertion of that hostility against the produce of the United States which they have so long enforced against the manufactures of Great Britain can alone subject them to any serious inconvenience from war, or dispose them to thoughts of peace; and that the expectation of obtaining a vent for the manufactures of this country in return for the raw materials they furnish under neutral flags will not be realized, as it has so long been the system of the American government to prevent the consumption of British goods, in which they have succeeded, though they connived at or promoted the exportation of their own produce; and that the apprehension of the Americans directing their exertions to the manufacture of their own cotton is not justified by any rational argument of probability; the capital, skill and machinery requisite for such undertakings have not yet been formed and combined in the United States; and even admitting that they had begun to direct their attention to the manufacture of such cotton fabrics as they have hitherto been supplied with from Great Britain or her dependencies in the East, it must be evident to every one at all acquainted with the progress of manufacturing industry that it would be impossible for them before the lapse of a great number of years to produce any thing which would come in competition with our fabrics, which the experience and improvements of nearly half a century have alone enabled us to bring to their present state of excellence; and that, from the mode of payment which is proved to have prevailed hitherto, and is so likely to continue, for American produce, no returns can be made from hence except in bullion, by which the resource of the enemy will be increased, and the commercial as well as military operations in this country will be fettered and embarrassed; and that the petitioners are ready to adduce evidence at the bar of the House that cotton in sufficient abundance, of the best quality and at reasonable prices, can be obtained without permitting the introduction of cotton the growth of the United States; and praying, that the said Act of 43 Geo. 3. cap. 153, in as far as the same authorizes the importation of cotton wool from the United States in neutral ships, may be repealed, and that the importation of cotton wool of the growth of the United States may be wholly prohibited, and, as an encouragement to the cultivation and improvement of the staple of cotton wool in the East Indies, and the importation thereof into these kingdoms, the petitioners humbly submit that such prohibition of American cotton ought to be continued for a period of not less than three years after the conclusion of a definitive treaty of peace with the United States."
Ordered to lie on the table.
Debentures and Exchequer Bills.]
The House having resolved itself into a Committee of Ways and Means,
rose to submit to the Committee his promised Resolutions respecting Debentures and Exchequer Bills. He began by adverting to the Resolution of the Committee on the 1st of April, permitting the holders of Exchequer Bills to subscribe to the amount of twelve millions. Not only was the whole of that sum subscribed in one day, but a great surplus subscription was tendered, which it was not possible to accept, however desirable such further subscription might have been considered. He had not, however, thought it prudent, at the time, to propose to parliament any further extension, wishing rather to await the event of that which had taken place, in order to observe the operation of it on the funds. The funds had, however, he had the satisfaction to find, remained steady. From the moment at which the original proposition for funding Exchequer Bills had been made to the present instant, there had scarcely been any fluctuation in the price of stocks. It was desirable, therefore, now to extend the funding of Exchequer Bills; and the more especially as, circumstances rendered advisable the postponement, for a short period, of any negociation for a loan. The result of the important events at that moment pending on the continent would have such a material effect on the funds, that he should not think himself exercising a sound discretion, if he precipitated any bargain which, should those events terminate favourably, would be injurious to the public; and should they terminate unfavourably, would be destructive to the contractors. It appeared to him to be peculiarly desirable, that the funding should take place in the 4 per cents; that was a stock which had not been added to in that manner for a considerable period; a circumstance that would give the public considerable advantage in now resorting to it. Adverting to the failure which had recently taken place in the subscription for Debentures, under the Resolution of the Committee also of the 1st of April, he recommended that that experiment should be repeated; although, in the late instance, only 500,000l. had been subscribed out of the six millions to which that Resolution referred. He should propose, therefore, to raise 3,000,000l. by Debentures, giving the subscribers to them (as well as the subscribers to the former Debentures) the power to fund Exchequer Bills to an amount double that of the principal sums contained in their Debentures. If subscribers for Debentures to a further sum than the 3,000,000l. should come forward, they would not, however, be entitled to the advantage which he had last described. The right hon. gentleman concluded by moving the following Resolutions:
"That towards raising the Supply granted to his Majesty, a further sum, not exceeding three millions, be raised by Debentures.
"That books be opened at the Bank of England on the 4th, 5th, and 6th of May 1813, and that any person be at liberty to subscribe for such debentures, and to pay a deposit of 15l. per cent. on such sum as he or she shall choose to subscribe on or before the 6th day of May with the chief cashier of the governor and company of the Bank of England.
"That every person interested in, or entitled unto, any Exchequer Bills dated between the 1st of March 1812, and the 31st of March 1813, both inclusive, who shall on either of the said days make a like deposit on such sum as he shall choose to subscribe for such debentures as aforesaid, with the said chief cashier, shall be entitled to receive from the said cashier a certificate to the paymasters of Exche- quer Bills, which certificate shall state numerically the order in which subscriptions shall be made, and the amount thereof, and shall entitle such person or persons to deliver in such bills to the said paymasters on the 7th of May 1813, in the same order, to the amount of double the sum subscribed by such persons respectively for such debentures.
"That the several persons who applied to the paymasters of Exchequer Bills, in pursuance of a Resolution of this House, on the 1st of April 1813, to subscribe their Exchequer Bills, and receive tickets from the said paymasters, but who were not then permitted to subscribe the same, in consequence of the sum proposed to be funded at that time having been completed, be also permitted, on production of the said tickets, to deliver in to the said paymasters on the 8th of May 1813, Exchequer Bills of the descriptions before mentioned, not exceeding the amount then specified.
"That the several holders of debentures, or receipts for debentures, subscribed for under the Resolutions of this House of the 1st of April 1813, be also permitted to deliver in to the paymasters of Exchequer Bills, on the 8th of May 1813, Exchequer Bills of the descriptions before mentioned, to double the amount of the principal sums contained in such debentures or receipts.
"That in case Exchequer Bills, to the amount of six millions, shall not be delivered in by the different descriptions of persons before mentioned to the paymasters of Exchequer Bills, any other person or persons shall and may be at liberty to deliver to the said paymasters, on the 11th of May 1813, bills of the descriptions before mentioned, to complete the said sum of six millions.
"That every such person or persons so delivering in Exchequer Bills as aforesaid, shall have in exchange for the same, from the paymasters of Exchequer Bills, a certificate or certificates to the governor and company of the Bank of England, expressing the principal sum contained in such bills, which certificate or certificates shall entitle such person or persons, for every 100l. principal money contained therein, to the sum of 139l. capital stock in annuities, after the rate of 4l. per cent. per annum, to commence from the 5th of April 1813, and to be added to, and made one joint stock with, the 4l. per cent. annuities consolidated by the Acts of the 20th and 21st years of his present Majesty, and by several subsequent Acts, and to be payable and transferrable at the Bank of England at the flame time and in the same manner, and subject to the like redemption as the said 4l. per cent. annuities, and the interest on the Exchequer Bills to be delivered in as aforesaid, shall be paid in money to the 26th day of May 1813.
"That every such contributor for debentures shall, on or before the 6th of May 1813, make a deposit of 15/. per cent. with the chief cashier of the governor and company of the Bank of England, as a security for making the future payments on or before the days or times hereinafter mentioned, (that is to say,) 15l. per cent. on or before the 21st of this instant May; 15l. per cent. on or before the 18th of June; 20/. per cent. on or before the 16th of July; 15l. per cent. on or before the 27th of August; 10l. per cent. on or before the 24th of September; and 10l. per cent. on or before the 29th of October next.
"That every such contributor who shall pay in the whole of his or her contribution money at any time on or before the 23d of September 1813, shall be allowed an interest by way of discount, after the rate of 4l. per cent. per annum, on the sum so advanced for completing his or her contribution respectively, to be computed from the day of completing the same to the 29th of October 1813.
"That every such contributor, as well as the several persons who have subscribed for debentures pursuant to the said Resolution of this House, of the first of April 1813, shall, for every 100l. contributed and paid, be entitled to a debenture of 100l., to be dated on the 5th of April 1813, transferrable by endorsement, bearing interest at the rate of 5l. per cent. per annum, payable half-yearly at the Bank of England, on the 5th day of April and the 10th of October, the principal sums contained, in such debentures to be payable in money on the 5th of April 1815, or on the 5th of April in any succeeding year during the continuance of the war, when the interest will cease, on the parties entitled thereto giving three months notice in writing to the governor and company of the Bank of England of their intention to receive the same, or shall be paid off in money on the 5th of April next succeeding twelve months after the ratification of a definitive treaty of peace; but the holders of such debentures shall, in either case, have the option at the 5th of April or the 10th of October in any year, until the same shall be payable, according to the said Resolution of this House (on giving fourteen days notice in writing as aforesaid) to receive for each 100l. principal money, contained in such debentures, either 100l. capital stock in annuities, after the rate of 5l. per cent. per annum, to be added to and made one joint stock, with the 5l. per cent. annuities, created by Acts made in the 24th and 25th years of his present Majesty, and several subsequent Acts for granting annuities to satisfy certain navy, victualling, transport bills, ordnance debentures, and Exchequer bills, or 120l. capital stock in annuities, after the rate of 4l. per cent. per annum, to be added to and made one joint stock, with the said 4l. per cent. annuities, or 150l. capital stock in annuities, after the rate of 3l. per cent. per annum, to be added to and made one joint stock with certain annuities, after the rate of 3l. per cent. per annum, which were reduced from 4l. to 3l. per cent. by an Act made in the 23rd year of his late majesty, and to be payable and transferrable at the Bank of England, at the same time, and in the same manner, and subject to the like redemption as the said 3l. per cent. reduced annuities.
"That the interest on the said 4l. per cent. annuities, and on the said 3l. per cent. annuities, shall commence from the 5th of April, or the 10th of October, when such debentures shall be converted into stock as aforesaid, and the interest, on the said 5l. per cent. annuities, from the 5th of January, or the 5th of July preceding."
The said Resolutions were agreed to.
Admiralty Registrar's Bill
The House went into a Committee on the Bill for regulating the office of Registrar of the High Court of Admiralty and High Court of Appeals for Prizes. In the committee, Mr. H. Martin moved some amendments. He wished to know if it was intended to discuss the question then, or on the Report.
said, the Bill proceeded on the ground of great abuses in this office injurious to suitors, and prejudicial to the course of public justice. Two years ago, a Bill on this matter was brought in, and the then Chancellor of the Exchequer, (the late Mr. Perceval) though a reversionist of the Registrarship, considered it proper to reform the office, the sums placed in the hands of the officer being immense. It was inconsistent to postpone the discussion to a late stage of the Bill. He was sorry to see the very little interest taken by the House in this Bill, and the other, which his hon. and learned friend (Mr. H. Martin) bad, so much to his own credit, brought forward, and which tended to produce so material an effect in ameliorating the administration of justice.
objected to the Bill, on the ground that the money in the hand of the Registrar was of a very trifling amount. It consisted principally in the proceeds of vessels adjudicated abroad in the vice admiralty courts, pending appeals to the High Court of Admiralty here. He (Mr. Rose) had found it his duty, in 1809, to write to the King's proctor, directing him to vest the money so transmitted in Exchequer bills, for the benefit of the parties; and he understood that the money in question was so vested, or in navy 5. per cents. If the money were lodged in the Bank as was proposed by this measure, it would not be so accessible to suitors as it was at present.
said his reasons for the measure were not founded on chimerical apprehensions, but on printed documents which had been laid upon the table. By the Report made in pursuance of his first motion, it appeared that lord Arden cleared 7,000l. a year from these monies, in the same way that he averaged 13,000l. a year in other branches. He had desired returns of suitors' monies in the Registrar's hands, stating how much went to the Registrar, beginning the account in 1793: but great difficulties being started, certain periods were taken. At first the money in hand was 5,500l. next year it rose to 11,500l. in 1795 to 179,000l.; in 1801 to 296,435l. on the 1st of April, 1809, the balance was 180,282l. Mr. Jenner (since dead) who was examined, stated, that the Registrar took for himself what he thought proper. When the deputy stated this, and when lord Arden admitted the 7,000l. a year, was it not presumable that the latter took the sum for his own benefit? That officer at present, he believed, had about 207,000l. in hand. Was this a trifling sum, after all the admirable regulations of the right hon. gentleman's letter? Mr. Jenner could not precisely tell the average during the war, but said it was seldom less than 200,000l. To make up his profits, the Registrar had, on two separate occasions, taken 40,000l. and 20,000l. so that he bad received less, it would appear for some prior years. He thought the right hon. member, from his proverbial accuracy, would have been well-informed on these points. An account stated lord Arden to hold, on the 14th of February, 1812, 146,000l. and on January 12, 1813, 182,000l. in Exchequer bills. Could any gentleman rest satisfied with the right hon. member's regulations, after seeing this result? Another paper stated these sums not to be the result of merely short litigations. In the Registrar's office there were also various small sums, some under 100l. unclaimed, but making in the whole a large sum. He understood they were not included in the return. They were not likely to get out of court, where some of them had been since 1777; they amounted to above 95,000l. The principle on which this office was regulated was objectionable, and it was desirable to give the navy the benefit of these unclaimed monies after a certain period.
said, there was little of that last sum that might not be claimed at any time.
The Report was ordered to be received on Friday.
Apprentices
adverted to the Petition he presented the other day, which was signed by above 800 masters and 13,000 journeymen in London; and by 1,154 masters and 17,517 journeymen in the country; making above 32,000 in all. The policy of the system began in Edward the 3d. Some had doubted the effects of the law, deemed all restrictions injurious to commerce: others considered the want of restrictions more dangerous, and contended that the present system had encouraged habits of industry. The courts had, in general, narrowed the spirit and application of the restrictions. He thought that if the existing law was not to be enforced, it ought to be amended or repealed. A petition signed by such a number of tradesmen, was deserving the most attentive consideration. He should therefore move, that the Petition be referred to a committee.
allowed that the number of signatures to the petition entitled it to a respectful consideration. As to the allegations of the petition, he thought it very extraordinary that the petitioners should realty expect that parliament would allow them to bring actions upon this statute, against whom they pleased, well founded or ill-founded, without being subject to costs in case of failure. From his experience in a certain judicial situation, be could say, and he believed he might appeal to all his professional friends about him, for the confirmation of his statement, that he never knew any indictment brought under this statute except against a person of great skill and acquirements. The preamble of the Act stated its object to be "to prevent the introduction of unskilful workmen:" and yet no indictments were ever brought against unskilful workmen, but only against very skilful and ingenious men. This shewed pretty clearly the spirit in which such prosecutions were brought.
said, that he should not vote for the committee, if he did not think it likely, that the resolution they would come to would be directly contrary to that which was expected by the petitioners. He certainly did entertain great doubts, whether in the present state of the commercial world, there was any use in those apprenticeships, although they might have been necessary in the infancy of commerce. It. frequently happened, that a young man had not a talent for the particular business to which he had been bound an apprentice, and was yet possessed of other talents, by the exercise of which he might obtain a most respectable subsistence. It appeared to him a cruel hardship to fetter the minds and limbs of men, so as to prevent their obtaining a subsistence by the fair exercise of their talents and of their limbs. As to what was said of corporate rights, obtained by apprenticeship, he thought that made it the less necessary to add penalties. If those corporate rights, however, were to be considered of real value, he thought it a great hardship that they could not be obtained in any other way than by serving an apprenticeship.
also felt inclined to disapprove of the Act, as highly injurious to trade in general, and to rising talents. In illustration of the hardship of the Act, and of the manner in which it was generally enforced, he mentioned a case which had come within his own immediate observation. In an office of which he bad the command, there was a young man of great skill, and consequently of great value to his employers; he, however, had not served the regular apprenticeship, and his fellow workmen therefore combined against him, demanding his discharge. He (Mr. B.) interfered in behalf of the young man but in vain; for the conspiracy amongst the workmen attained that height that their request was obliged to be complied with. The young man was discharged, and though skilful in that particular trade, he had been compelled to sell the furniture, the produce of his industry, to support a wife and family, who were dependent on him for support. He did not oppose the, committee, because he was convinced that the determination would be in favour of the repeal of the 5th of Elizabeth.
The Petition was then referred to a committee.
State of the War and of Our Foreign Relations
said, he had wished to put some questions to the noble lord, the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, respecting the state of the war and our foreign engagements; but as that noble lord was not in his place, he did not wish to put those questions to any other member of the government, particularly during the noble lord's absence; and he therefore gave notice, that on the bringing up the Report of the Committee of Ways and Means, respecting the Chancellor of the Exchequer's proposition for funding Exchequer bills, he should make some observations relative to the subjects to which he had alluded. On the bringing up of such Report, he therefore now stated, in order that it might not be said that he was taking the House by surprise, that he did not intend to confine himself to the items of the Report, but that he should then make those observations which he wished to refer to the foreign secretary, and which might hereafter be made the basis of a motion by some other member of the House, though he had no intention of proposing any motion on the subject.