roso pursuant to notice, to bring forward his motion, for increasing the remuneration and limiting the service of seamen. He thought it was his duty to lay before the House, the reasons why our seamen preferred the merchant foreign service, to that of their own country, to enter which they discovered a very great reluctance. The facts by which he meant to prove this, he had compressed into one Resolution, as he was anxious that when the members of that House retired from their parliamentary duties, they might consider these facts at their leisure, and satisfy themselves of the correctness of the statement, in order that when they met again, they might have no hesitation in adopting some propositions, the object of which would be the redress of those grievances which were the subject of it. As he did not conceive that any objection could be made to the mode of proceeding he had adopted, he would not occupy the time of the House any longer than by reading the Resolution. The noble lord then read the following Resolution:

"That the honour of his Majesty's crown, the glory and safety of the country, do, in a great degree, depend on the maintenance, especially in time of war, of an efficient naval establishment:

"That, during the late and present war with France, splendid victories have been gained by his Majesty's fleets and vessels of war over a vast superiority in the number of guns and men, and in the weight of metal:

"That these victories, thus obtained, were acquired by the skill and intrepidity of the officers, and by the energy, zeal, and valour of the crews:

"That, during the present war with the United States of America, his Majesty's naval service has, in several instances, experienced defeat, in a manner and to a degree unexpected by this House, by the Admiralty, and by the country at large:

"That the cause of this lamentable effect is not any superiority possessed by the enemy either in skill or valour, nor the well-known difference in the weight of metal, which heretofore has been deemed unimportant; but arises chiefly from the decayed and heartless state of the crews of his Majesty's ships of war, compared with their former energy and zeal, and compared, on the other hand, with the freshness and vigour of the crews of the enemy:

"That it is an indisputable fact, that long and unlimited confinement to a ship, as well as to any other particular spot, and especially when accompanied with the diet necessarily that of ships of war, and a deprivation of the usual recreations of man, seldom fails to produce a rapid decay of the physical powers, the natural parent, in such cases, of despondency of mind:

"That the late and present war against France (including a short interval of peace, in which the navy was not paid off,) have lasted upward of twenty years, and that a new naval war has recently commenced:

"That the duration of the term of service in his Majesty's navy is absolutely without any limitation; and that there is no mode provided for by law, for the fair and impartial discharging of men there-from; and that, according to the present practice, decay, disease, incurable wounds, or death, can alone procure the release of any seaman, of whatever age or whatever length of service:

"That seamen who have become wholly unfit for active service, are, in place of being discharged and rewarded according to their merits and their sufferings, transferred to ships on harbour duty, where they are placed under officers wholly unacquainted with their character and former conduct, who have no other means to estimate them but on the scale of their remaining activity and bodily strength; where there is no distinction made between the former petty officer and the common seamen; between youth and age; and where those worn out and wounded seamen, who have spent the best part of their lives, or have lost their health, in the service of their country, have to perform a duty more laborious than that of the convict felons in the dock yards, and with this remarkable distinction, that the labours of the latter have a known termination:

"That, though the seamen thus transferred and thus employed have all been invalided, they are permitted to re-enter ships of war on actual service; and that such is the nature of the harbour duty, that many, in order to escape from it, do so re-enter, there being no limitation as to the number of times of their being invalided, or that of their re-entering:

"That to obtain a discharge from the navy by purchase, the sum of 80l. sterling is required by the Admiralty, which, together with other expenses, amounts to twenty times the original bounty, and is equal to all that a seaman can save, with the most rigid æconomy, during the average period in which he is capable of service; that this sum is demanded alike from men of all ages, and of all lengths of servitude, from those pensioned for wounds, and also from those invalided for harbour duty; thus converting the funds of Greenwich, and the reward of former services, into a means of recruiting the navy:

"That such is the horror which seamen have of this useless prolongation of their captivity, that those who are able, in order to escape from it, actually return into the hands of government all those fruits of their toil, which formerly they looked to as the means of some little comfort in their old age:

"That, besides these capital grievances, tending to perpetuate the impress service, there are others worthy the serious attention of this House: that the petty officers and seamen on-board of his Majesty's ships and vessels of war, though absent on foreign stations for many years, receive no wages until their return home, and are, of course, deprived of the comforts which those wages, paid at short intervals, would procure them; that this is now more severely felt, owing to the recent practice of postponing declarations of war until long after the war has been actually begun; by which means the Navy is deprived, under the name of Droits, of the first fruits and greatest proportion of the prize money to which they have heretofore been entitled; and thus, and by the exactions of the Courts of Admiralty, the proportion of captures which at last devolves to the navy is much too small to produce those effects which formerly were so beneficial to the country:

"That while their wages are withheld from them abroad, when paid at home, which, to prevent desertion, usually takes place on the day before they sail out again, having no opportunity to go on shore, they are compelled to buy slops of Jews on board, or to receive them from government at 15 per cent. higher than their acknowledged value; and being paid in Bank notes, they are naturally induced to exchange them for money current in other countries, and which it is notorious they do at an enormous loss:

"That the recovery of the pay and prize money by the widows, children, or relatives of seamen, is rendered as difficult as possible; and, finally, the regulations with regard to passing of the examination requisite, previous to an admission to the benefits of Greenwich Hospital, subject the disabled seaman to so many difficulties, and to such long delays, that, in numerous cases, he is compelled to beg his way in the pursuit of a boon, the amount of which, even in event of the loss of both eyes or both arms, does not equal that of the common board wages of a footman.

"That one of the best and strongest motives to meritorious conduct in military and naval men, is the prospect of promotion, while such promotion is, at the same time, free of additional expence to the nation; but that, in the British naval service, this powerful and honourable incitement has ceased to exist, seeing that the means of rewarding merit has been almost wholly withdrawn from naval commanders in chief, under whose inspection services are performed; in fact, it is a matter of perfect notoriety, that it has become next to impossible for a meritorious subordinate petty officer or seaman to rise to the rank of lieutenant; that in scarcely any instance promotion or employment is now to be obtained in the navy, through any other means than what is called parliamentary interest—that is to say the corrupt influence of boroughs.

"That, owing to these causes chiefly, the crews of his Majesty's ships of war have, in general, become in a very considerable degree worn out and disheartened, and inadequate to the performance, with their wonted energy and effect, of those arduous duties which belong to the naval service; and that hence has arisen, by slow and imperceptible degrees, the enormous augmentation of our ships and men, while the naval force of our enemies is actually much less than in former years.

"That, as a remedy for this alarming national evil, it is absolutely necessary that the grievances of the navy, some of which only have been recited above, should be redressed; that a limitation of the duration of service should be adopted, accompanied with the certainty of a suitable reward, not subject to any of the effects of partiality; and that measures should be taken to cause the comfortable situations in the ordinary of the dock-yards, the places of porters, messengers, &c. &c. in and about the offices belonging to the sea service, the under wardens of the naval forests, &c. to be bestowed on meritorious decayed petty officers and seamen, instead of being, as they now generally are, the wages of corruption in borough elections.

"That this House, convinced that a decrease of energy of character cannot be compensated by an augmentation of the number of ships, guns, and men, which is, at the same time, a grievous pecuniary burden to the country, will, at an early period next session, institute an inquiry by special committee, or otherwise, into the matters above stated, and particularly with a view to dispensing suitable rewards to seamen; that they will investigate the state of the fund of Greenwich Hospital, and ascertain whether it is necessary to apply the Droits of the Admiralty, and the Droits of the Crown, as the natural first means of compensation to those who have acquired them by their valour, their privations, and their sufferings."

seconded the Resolution.

thought, that when the noble lord had adopted his present method of proceeding, and determined to embody in a series of resolutions all the facts he imagined himself to have collected together, with his reasonings upon those facts, he would have acted only consistent with the courtesy of parliament, had he given notice of his intention to those persons whose duty it might be to take part in any discussion that might arise. The, hon. gentleman said he was one of those persons who would have felt themselves obliged by any information the noble lord might have imparted; but though wanting any such, he had come unprepared into the House to meet the noble lord's Resolution, he should be wanting in his duty, if he did not state most positively, that, excepting the tribute of just praise, which, in the commencement of his Resolution, the noble lord had paid to the gallantry and heroism of our own seamen, every other part of it was liable to the charge of being wholly unfounded in fact, or very much indeed exaggerated. He could wish that the noble lord had brought forward his Resolution at an earlier period of the session, as he did not choose to give that fair notice of his intentions, the want of which he had already complained of. The statements those Re- solutions contained Were so astonishing, true it was less astonishing, when coming from the noble lord, than from any other person;—but still even from him they were so astonishing, that surely they ought not to have been so suddenly, and with so little preparation, brought under the consideration of the House. There was no one but the noble lord who conceived that the disasters, which we had experienced in the course of the present war with the United States, were not to be attributed to a superior force on the part of the enemy, but to a decay of spirit and ardour in our seamen in the defence of their country. Was the crew of the Java then, who had maintained so stubborn a conquest, dispirited? Was the crew of the Macedonian disheartened and reduced by hard usage to imbecility and cowardice? So far was that from being the fact, that it was in the latter part of the action the spirit of the crew of the Macedonian was most conspicuous, that the spirit of her officers and her brave commander was most conspicuous, and that brave commander and those gallant officers, whose reputation had never been touched by the breath of calumny, before that which had just issued from the lips of the noble lord. So little broken was the spirit of that crew which the noble lord had described as utterly heartless and imbecile, that till the very last they met the attacks of the enemy with loud and repeated cheers, and those cheers were begun by the wounded in the cockpit. An hon. friend had just reminded him of a circumstance which had occurred in the course of the action, in which the Java was unfortunately captured, which he would now state to the House, and which the noble lord might take if he pleased as a further proof of the want of spirit and energy of which he complained. A petty officer of the ship, named John Hinnbold, one of those disheartened men on whose hardships the noble lord had dwelt, had his arm carried away, and was obliged, in consequence, to undergo the operation of the turniquet, or, to use the simple language of the gallant fellow himself, as delivered on the court-martial, "he went below to have his arm put to rights;" and having had his arm put to rights, having undergone the operation of that dreadful instrument, he came up on deck immediately, in order to cheer the boarders with his pipe. There was a remarkable instance of decayed spirit, for the noble lord! Now for another fact on which the noble lord had formed his Resolution. He had stated that seamen were obliged to purchase their discharge by no less a sum than 80l., no matter what was the condition of the individual, old or young, infirm or healthy. Now, he had to state most positively that this was not the case. The sum specified might, indeed, be required from able seamen, who wished for their discharge; but the sum of 40l. only was required from ordinary seamen; from ordinary seamen transferred to harbour duty, only 30l; from persons who were originally landsmen, not more than 20l. And he had to state further, that many persons transferred to harbour-duty, and considered unfit for service, were discharged without any consideration whatsoever. The noble lord had stated formerly in the House, the case of a harbour-duty man who had been obliged to pay 80l. for his discharge. When the noble lord had thought proper to make that statement, he had answered in his place that he could not take upon him to vouch for the individual case, but he had also stated, that if the hardship had occurred, it did not form part of a general system. He had, however, subsequently been at considerable pains to discover the particular case alluded to by the noble lord, and had examined every document in which he thought it could be traced, but in vain-he could find nothing of the kind; he had then applied to the member for Bedford to procure for him the name of the man from the noble lord, but this had not been done, and he bad never had the pleasure of seeing the noble lord since. Now he thought, that under such circumstances the noble lord should have abstained from receiving the statement unless he was disposed to give the name of the individual, and thus supply the means of confuting it. Our seamen, said the noble lord, were heart-broken; they would, indeed, be heart-broken had they heard his Resolutions, that was provided always, though he retained so much authority with them, as would impart to his unjust assertions, with respect to them the power of inflicting pain which they would once unquestionably have possessed. They would be heart-broken if the House passed a resolution which constituted the grossest libel that was ever put forth against them. Formerly, said the noble lord, they were full of vigour and life under a better system, now they were deprived of every comfort, penned up on board of ships which were rendered prisons to them, and their health injured by defective sustenance. Now, he had to state an improvement in the condition of those men whose hardships the noble lord then deplored, which would enable them to form fair conjectures as to the justice of his statement in general. A practice had been adopted within these few years of granting seamen leave of absence on a plan more liberal and better adapted to promote their comfort than any that had been previously thought of. When a ship returned from a foreign station, all the men who had three years' pay due to them got leave of absence for three months, for the purpose of enabling them to visit their friends; if the individuals were Scotch or Irish, the time was prolonged. This practice was now so well understood, that every ship's company looked upon it as a matter of right, and he was happy to say, that though ill effects had been expected to result from it, the expectation had been found delusive. Several officers had anticipated desertion, others a relaxation of discipline, but he was happy to have to state, that so far from their expectations being answered, the men returned to their duty with their minds refreshed, new strung, and better fitted for the tolls imposed on them by their duty, and much fewer desertions took place since the adoption of such a system of indulgence than before it. He stated this to show what a tissue of false premises as well as false inferences were contained in the Resolution of the noble lord. The noble lord's Resolution asserted, that there was no fair system of promotion in the navy, that every thing was conducted upon a principle of corruption. Was, then, the commission of the noble lord himself given him upon such a principle? Did he obtain the red ribbon which was, before him, never given to an individual of his rank, through corruption? Was it through corruption that a relative of the noble lord's had made his way to the top of his profession, and had been appointed governor of Guada-loupe? Was it through corruption that the influence of the noble lord had had considerable weight in effecting the promotion of those persons on whose behalf he had used it? He was aware that an answer to this last question in the affirmative might be grounded upon the assumption that the naval acquaintance of the noble lord were persons of little worth, and such as could owe their promotion to nothing but corruption: but he who well knew the reverse, would not allow him even this miserable refuge. Was the promotion of captain Duncan the effect of corruption? Were the honours which that gallant officer's father had obtained the result of corruption? The friends of the noble lord had felt the benefit of his interference, and much was it to be wished that it had been confined to promote their wishes and through them the interest of the country, and had never been mischievously exercised on such occasions as the present. Did not the noble lord recollect when he had left his ship that he had been consulted as to who was the fittest to succeed him, and that his recommendation had been acted upon? If, indeed, he had never left that ship it would have been well for his own reputation as it would have been well for the interests of his country. Most heartily did he wish the noble lord had staid in her to be serviceable to the public instead of coming here to be the reverse. The noble lord loved to deal in generals. He talked loud about corruption, but he wished him to state who paid and who received the wages of corruption. Perhaps he would state who those culpable individuals were. Unprepared as the noble lord had thought it right that he (Mr. C.) should come there, he would not say that in that case he would rebut his charges, but if he would condescend to state names he would consider it his duty to ground inquiries thereon, and, on the result of those inquiries, ground a statement to the House. He was conscious that he had spoken with much heat, and hoped for the indulgence of the House. But he could not say that he had not meant to reprehend, and that with as much severity as he could use, the conduct of the noble lord—that he did not mean to set in as strong a light as possible, the futility of those labours of six months duration, which had so engrossed the noble lord that he had been unable to attend his parliamentary duty, and which he now imagined would enable him to call out in triumph to his constituents, "behold, if I have appeared to desert my duty, I have only appeared to do so, I have not spent my time in idleness, here are the fruits of my industry, here is the operose conclusion of my labours, and the debt you, my constituents, suppose me to have contracted, you now find fully liquidated." He wished the noble lord could think it possible, as it was really fact, that there could exist very warm feelings for the interests of the navy in other bosoms as well as his own. He had stated, that as many difficulties as it was possible were thrown in the way of seamen receiving their wages and prize-money, and he had described his right hon. friend (Mr. Rose) as a dark conspirator, who contributed as far as he could to raise obstacles to their receiving them, when the fact was notorious that the chief business of his right hon. friend's life was to remove all obstacles begotten by untoward circumstances. Cannot you, Sir, continued the hon. Secretary, addressing himself to the Speaker, cannot you yourself testify that such has been the object of my right hon. friend? Have you not been frequently occupied in passing Prize Acts? Are you not aware that as soon as a flaw that may produce inconvenience is discovered in any of the existing Acts a Bill is brought in to obviate any ill effects that may result from it? Now, I beg the House to recollect, that these accusations of the noble lord have not been couched in a fleeting and evanescent speech, but have been regularly arranged in a written document, which it is the wish of the noble lord should be studied by every member in the leisure which the cessation of parliamentary duty would allow him. The noble lord I contend has taken a very unfair method of conveying his opinions, he would have acted more fairly in making them the subject of a pamphlet. If he had done so, I have certainly not much time for writing, but out of respect for the noble lord, I should certainly have answered him, and I should have been glad of an opportunity of answering him, when I could have used freely those terms which he has deserved should be applied to him. I must express my sanguine hope, that the House will not, by adopting such resolutions as those moved by the noble lord, sanction the gross libel which they contain against the navy, against parliament, and against the country. I wish to lay aside all little considerations, to suppose that the Resolutions are not meant to apply more to the persons now engaged in the management of our naval affairs than their predecessors, but if it be otherwise, still I wish to sink any feeling that might be supposed to arise in my mind in consequence, and to answer the noble lord only as the defender of that gallant body of men who have stood so long forward as our firmest bulwark against the violence of our foe, and who are well entitled to the warmest feeling of gratitude we can cherish toward them. I hope, therefore, that if the noble lord does dare to push the House to a division, that he will be left in a minority, such as will not merely mark their sense but also their indignation.

hoped that the noble lord, a naval captain, would not press such a motion, including, as it did, on his part, a doubt as to the bravery of the British navy. He should have expected from the noble lord, that he would rather have taught our seamen confidence in their own valour and exertions, than to doubt that they were as valiant and energetic as formerly.

said, that the hon. Secretary had indulged in a warmth and a severity of animadversion, which the occasion by no means justified. His noble friend had asserted much, and the hon. gentleman had denied much, and that on a very important subject; but it remained to be seen who was in the error. He was willing to admit, that the late period of the session rendered the motion inexpedient; but he conceived, that if his noble friend was induced to withdraw it, he would feel himself in duty bound to bring it forward at an early period of the ensuing session, when of course the present strong objections to it would be removed. The hon. member had taxed his noble friend with exaggeration; but it was impossible to conceive any thing more exaggerated than the whole of the hon. gentleman's speech. He had stated his noble friend to have described our seamen as having wholly lost the energy and valour which had once distinguished them. Now, his noble friend had never so described them: he had stated, that their spirits were depressed by long confinement and various other hardships; but he had never stated that their hearts were subdued, or that when brought into action they did not forget every thing but that they had their own character and the character of their country to support. The hon. baronet then proceeded to contend, that as it was not denied that in some cases the sum of 80l. was taken for the discharge of a seaman, his noble friend's assertion on that head had not been refuted, and went on to remark on the impropriety of the harbour-duty men being mixed with convicts.—(No, no! from the Treasury benches.)—He knew nothing of the matter, and therefore he would support the inquiry, because the facts stated were of the last importance, and it ought to be generally known whether they were correct or incorrect. He hoped his noble friend would not withdraw his Resolutions without giving notice that he would bring them again under the consideration of the House at an early period of next session.

could not allow the assertion to go uncontradicted, that obstacles were thrown in the way of the payment of wages and prize-money. The utmost facility was, on the contrary, given to every application, and the bonds alluded to by the hon. baronet were taken as guards to prevent imposition and fraud. It became the duty of the clerks to withhold information from persons who might convert it to improper purposes; but those fairly entitled to it had at all times easy access to the nature and extent of the claims in question.

bore testimony to the regulations according to which the payment of wages and prize money was conducted. They were, he could say, from his own personal experience in applying for others, carried into effect with great punctuality and precision. The noble lord's Resolutions, he believed in his heart, were calculated to do more mischief than almost any others that could be framed: and the time which he chose to bring them forward at, the end of the session, made them still more dangerous. The hon. baronet had admitted that he knew little of the subject, and he was confident that if the hon. baronet had but read them, he would not have given them his support. The hon. member opposite had, indeed, spoke with warmth, but he had spoken with clearness, with propriety, and with effect. It was impossible to read one of the Resolutions, which ascribed our late losses to the decayed and heartless stale of our crews—not to the superiority of the enemy's ships, and weight of metal—without the strong, est emotions of indignation; and when he considered that it came from a noble lord, who owed all his distinction to those decayed and heartless seamen, he felt himself justified in calling it a libel of the very worst kind. It was an unfounded attack upon the honour and valour of our officers and crews. The Resolutions were, indeed, a tissue of groundless assertions, and might be justly considered as so many gross reflections and libels upon the character and glory of the navy. Such vague and unauthorised statements were calculated to do much mischief. He trusted, however, that the House would mark their reprobation of such a proceeding, and he felt assured that there was not one man in the House, save the hon. baronet, who would support it.

begged to add his testimony to that of the hon. gentleman who bad spoken last, as to the facility of recovering the pay due to the navy.

confirmed the statements made as to the satisfaction given by the lords of the Admiralty in every case where a fair statement was made for the purpose of obtaining a discharge. He begged also to state, that no exertion of parliamentary influence was necessary, but a simple statement of facts entitled to credit.

replied. He said he was not displeased at the warmth with which his proposition had been met. It certainly would be injurious to no one, except to the feelings of certain members of that House. The hon. Secretary had met his statements with individual instances of gallantry. The existence of these he did not deny; but he asserted, that the physical power of our seamen was decreasing, partly from the length of the war, and partly the system of harbour duty, established in 1803, from which service decayed seamen re-entered the navy. He had heard that the system was about to be changed; and he should be happy to learn from the hon. Secretary that such was the fact. The hon. Secretary had challenged him to shew an instance of a petty officer having purchased his discharge from such service. He would name a William Ford, who had served with him in the Imperieuse, who had done so, Nelson, his coxswain, and a person of the name of Farley, who had been returned to him, and died on board, completely worn out in the service. These were facts which he was prepared to prove at the bar, as he was all those which had been denied with so much warmth by the hon. Secretary. To shew farther that the crews of British ships of war were unequal to themselves heretofore, he would relate what was the opinion of a person not at all likely to be disaffected to the order of things—he was the son of a bishop, who had taken an American privateer, the crew of which consisted of only 130 men, and he had declared publicly that he would rather have them than the whole of his own crew, consisting of 240. If the hon. Secretary doubted this fact, he might enquire, and he would easily verify it. The noble lord had heard that the sailors taken prisoners by the Americans, had been found running away into the back settlements; that forty of them had been brought back by force, and that from the manifestation of this propensity, the exchange of prisoners had been broken off. The lateness of the period at which he had brought forward his Resolution had been complained of. He did intend to bring in a Bill to limit the term of service, but circumstances had prevented him: but he would carry his intention into effect in the next session. With respect to parliamentary influence, the hon. Secretary had asked, whether he had found it of service to himself in his profession? He certainly had not, because he had never prostituted his vote for that purpose; but he knew others who had found that influence of great avail. When he again brought forward the subject, he should prove all the facts he had adduced, and he hoped so much ignorance of important facts would not then be found to prevail. He had chosen the present form of his motion in order to put his sentiments on record in a way not susceptible of misrepresentation.

replied to the questions put by the noble lord, that the government had at all times been very watchful over the harbour duty, but that it had not taken any new steps since the suggestions of the noble lord. He had never heard of any disposition in the seamen, taken by the Americans, to run away to the back settlements; nor of forty men being brought back by force; The exchange of prisoners was broke off, in consequence of some wrong done to the British seamen, and not in consequence of any fault of theirs.

The Resolution was then negatived without a division.

opposed the Bill as an encroachment on the freehold property of the church. The principle which this Bill laid down of paying curates out of the profits of the livings of the incumbents, would authorise enquiry into the emoluments of bishops, deans, canons, and prebendaries—into the practice of commendam—and any other parts of the church establishment. The emoluments of the official persons he had mentioned would be held as a better source from whence the revenue of curates might be supplied, than the profits of incumbents little richer than the persons to be benefited. The only good thing in the Bill was an appearance of bon-hommie, in wishing curates to be well paid,—without, however, devising any good means for doing so. If curates were to be paid out of the emoluments of the clergy, the charge should fall on the highest as well as on the lowest.

supported the Bill, which was consistent with the principle of former Acts, and with the conditions on which the freeholds of the church were held; namely, the due performance of sacred duties. The Bill went to secure an adequate compensation to him who discharged the duties of another who ought to discharge them himself. If a bishop of Durham, for instance, performed his various duties by a deputy, at a few hundreds a year, the principle would fairly apply to such a prelate. The Bill was the best protection for the church, either with respect to its own character, or to the inroads of the growing numbers of sectaries, from whom the greatest danger to the church was to be apprehended. He was a sincere friend to a moderate, temperate, orderly church government, and approved of the lenient conduct of the established church, rather than the rigid system of those who were detached from it, greatly, he believed, frem the inefficiency of the establishment. They were the worst friends of the church who opposed such measures.

considered the means and the end of the Bill, and maintained that the former were harsh, and that the latter was not desirable. The clergy would in no way be benefited by the measure. It would be an invasion of private property; transferring in one-fourth of the livings in the kingdom the benefice from the incumbent to the curate; and operating with a most undue severity on the incumbents possessed of small livings. If there was a stern necessity for such a measure, it ought to fall lightly on the poorer and heavily on the richer class of incumbents. Under all these circumstances he should oppose the Speaker's leaving the chair.

maintained the necessity of the Bill, and compared the situation of those curates who had small salaries with many artificers and other workmen who enjoyed an income of much greater value. He pointed out, in particular, the expediency of defending the curate from the oppression of the incumbent. He deprecated any attempt to touch the property of the church; but he contended that the legislature ought to take care that that property was well applied to secure those objects for which the church was established.

opposed the Bill, contending that the order of poor incumbents would be much more injured than the order of curates would be benefited by it. It was not a tax upon opulence to support indigence; but it was a tax upon indigence to support indigence.

described the wretched state of the curates in that part of the country which he had the honour to represent, and trusted that the House would agree to a measure calculated to relieve them. At present they were frequently under the necessity of doing the duty of three or four churches, and the consequence was, that the duty was so ill done, that the churches were deserted for conventicles.

thought that the object which the framers of the Bill had in view would not be obtained by it. It was a measure which violated the long established principle that the wages of labour should be allowed to find their own level. It was an unnecessary interference with the episcopal authority, and tended to set the incumbent and the curate at variance with each other.

supported the Bill. Under the existing system, many parishes were left without the performance of any duty in them, or at best with the duty so performed, as to drive the inhabitants into the meeting-houses of sectaries. Most of the objections that had been made by hon. gentlemen were applicable not to the principle of the Bill, but to some of the clauses, and ought, therefore, to have been reserved for the committee.

The House then resolved itself into a committee, when the Bill received some amendments, and a clause was introduced on the motion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, for empowering the bishop to deduct a part of the curates' salary towards keeping the parsonage house in repair. The Report was ordered to be taken into farther consideration on Wednesday.

said, as in going through the detail of a long Bill, some inaccuracies had occurred in several of the clauses, he thought the best course they could take would be to recommit the Bill pro forma to night, and print it as amended, the Report could then be brought before them to-morrow in a more complete form, and he hoped gentlemen would have no objection to defer till the Report was so brought up, any further discussion that might appear desirable.

strongly protested against this precipitancy: the noble lord proposed new clauses, which he very composedly talked of having printed in the course, of the night and to have the debate to-morrow, when he knew so many members must be in attendance at the public breakfast at Carlton House. This was not decent; since that House had been a House, never was any business, so scandalously conducted. It was an insult to the House, to the Company, and to the country. The noble lord also thought of forwarding the Bill, even with accelerated expedition in the Lords—and possibly when the Bill went to their lordships, there would not be above 15 peers to debate and deliberate upon it. Oh, admirable decency! The third reading of the Bill would take place when nearly all the members would be out of town, and at such a time a minister was as absolute in power as any man possibly could be in Turkey. The noble lord ought to have a little consideration for the sake of decency, especially when it was remembered how the morning of the forth-coming day was to be occupied. If others had pressed the noble lord for this expedition, he would have referred to that fact, and would have said, "What! can you be so unreasonable as to expect me to be debating here, when I ought to be breakfasting at Carlton House—you ought, gentlemen, to consider!" Time ought certainly to be given to take the opinion of the Court of Proprietors upon the Bill, to know whether they would accept it or not.

thought further opportunities ought to be given for fully discussing the measure, and wished time to be taken to ascertain the sentiments of the East India Company.

maintained, that before this measure could be finally adopted, the Company ought to be consulted, which could not be done but on a general assembly of proprietors, which the directors had not yet called, because they could not see their way clearly through the Bill; and from day to day, their perplexities were increased by the alterations made in the measure. He hoped at least, that the noble lord, in justice, in candour, or even in indulgence, would grant them time sufficient to understand the Bill; that he would in consequence delay the third reading, and, previous to that, give the explanations he had promised on some doubtful and disputed clauses.

replied, that as the other House might agree with them, or dissent from them altogether, it was useless to endeavour to obtain the assent of the Company to the measure before it had passed the Lords. So far from its not being known, whether or not it would be accepted by the Company, appearing to him a reason for staying their proceedings, he thought it an argument in favour of accelerating them. It was not intended to inflict this measure on the East India Company. They would certainly be at liberty to accept it or refuse it, but whichever were ultimately resolved upon, he thought it must be the wish of the proprietors that the question should be disposed of by parliament as soon as possible. With respect to the observations of the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Tierney) he had only to say, as he had been so unfortunate as to incur his displeasure, every time the subject had come before the House, during the four months that this 'hurried' measure had been in progress, and as he Could not now hope to redeem himself in the right hon. gentleman's estimation, he must continue to pursue that course which appeared to him most conducive to the public interest.

said, the noble lord, far from improving, as the measure advanced to maturity, grew worse and worse, and it seemed his remonstrances had only the effect of making him a more hardened sinner. He wished to know what the noble lord intended to do if the charter were refused by the directors of the East India Company? This was a question which he believed the noble lord was not prepared to answer. Had he reflected that if this were done he would have to bring in another Bill on the subject even at this late period of the session?

agreed with much of what had fallen from his right hon. friend, but thought the East India Company, if wise, would accept of a charter which went a great way towards giving them their 10 per cent. which, from the manner in which they conducted their affairs, they were not likely to make in any other way.

hoped the hon. gentleman would allow the Company to have an opinion on that subject.

denied that the insinuation thrown out by the hon. gentleman was well founded.

The Bill was then re-committed pro forma, and some verbal change was made in some of the clauses.

proposed that they should again go into the committee to-morrow, that the Report should be received on Wednesday, and the third reading be fixed for Monday. This proposition was not acceded to. The House resumed, the Report was received, and the Bill ordered to be re-committed to-morrow, and printed as amended.