House of Commons
Saturday, July 30, 1814.
The Princess of Wales
seeing a noble lord opposite in his place, wished to ask him some questions on a subject of great public importance. It had been currently reported, that her royal highness the Princess of Wales had made an application, through his Majesty's ministers, for permission to return to the continent. Whether that application had been made with a view merely to a temporary visit to her Royal Highness's brother, at Brunswick, or whether it was to be understood as involving an intention on the part of her Royal Highness to leave this country altogether—in either case, he could not contemplate it without deep regret. Unquestionably he could conceive the possibility of the existence of such a claim on her Royal Highness, as would demand her temporary preference of another country, although it required the utmost strain of his imagination to do so. If, therefore, the noble lord should reply, that her Royal Highness's absence would be but temporary, and if the noble lord would pledge himself to take proper precautions for insuring her Royal Highness's early return, he should have no great objections to the visit. But if he should find that it was the intention of her Royal Highness, as expressed either by herself, or by any of the ministers of the crown, to leave this country for the purpose of taking up her permanent abode on the continent, against such a step he must protest most solemnly. The present was not a time that would admit of many obser- vations, [the usher of the Black Rod was every moment expected]; but he could not refrain from taking the only opportunity which was afforded him of declaring that he stood perfectly clear from any interference or knowledge on this subject. This he felt himself to be the more imperiously called upon to state, because on the recent question with respect to the augmentation other royal highness the Princess of Wales's income, he and an hon. friend of his, not then present (Mr. Whitbread) had been the only two members on that side of the House who had taken an active part in the proceeding. On that, and on every other occasion in which the consideration of her Royal Highness's situation had been involved, he had uniformly and distinctly declared, that so far from having either directly or indirectly advised her Royal Highness, he had never in his life uttered a single word to her Royal Highness, and had never even had the honour of being introduced to her. That declaration he solemnly repeated, because out of doors it was not impossible but that an impression of a contrary nature might be made by what had occurred. For the increase of her Royal Higness's establishment he certainly had voted; but he protested, that he had not done so on mere pecuniary grounds, but because he conceived, that by obtaining that additional grant her Royal Highness would shew the world that she had the countenance and support of the House of Commons, and that they considered her to be entitled to their protection. But if, at the bottom of that proposition, there existed any arrangement savouring of an understanding that the public should be deemed to have paid the price of her Royal Highness's quitting the country, in that arrangement, if it did exist, he solemnly protested that he had no hand. He would not have voted for the additional grant had he supposed such a thing possible.—He was sure the House would not have acceded to it had they supposed such a thing possible.—He was sure, that the House acquiesced in the proposition only because they wished that her Royal Highness should be enabled to maintain her rank with adequate splendour in this country. If any such scheme as that to which he had alluded was actually in contemplation, he trusted that the noble lord was not a party to it; and he hoped that the noble lord would take care that the public should not be burdened by its consequences. He repeated his conviction, that parliament had not entertained any such idea as to vote an additional income to her Royal Highness for the purpose of its being spent abroad. The only justifiable ground of that vote, even in its reduced state, was, that it was necessary to the proper splendour of her Royal Highness in this country. If, notwithstanding, her Royal Highness should go abroad, he trusted that the ministers of the crown would take care that no remittance should be sent from this country without the leave of parliament. He had been induced to make these observations by the persuasion that the course which he had pursued on this subject had exposed him to much misconstruction, from the effects of which he was desirous to guard himself by once more solemnly protesting against the departure of her Royal Highness, and calling on ministers to prevent any remittances from being sent abroad, without the sanction of parliament.
confessed, that he felt great difficulty to determine in what light he was to consider the observations which the right hon. gentleman had just made. He had understood the right hon. gentleman to say, that he wished merely to ask some questions; instead of which the right hon. gentleman had thought proper to make a speech—and a speech of considerable extent. As to the questions themselves, he must say that the right hon. gentleman was a little unfortunate in his selection of the person to whom he addressed them. An hon. friend of the right hon. gentleman's, not then present, must be much better acquainted with her royal highness the Princess of Wales's intentions; being much more in the confidence of her Royal Highness than he had the honour to be. For his part, he knew nothing of her Royal Highness's intentions. All he knew was, that her Royal Highness had signified to one of his Majesty's ministers, in order that it might be communicated to the Prince Regent, her Royal Highness's intention to go to the continent. What the right hon. gentleman's motives had been in voting for the late addition to her Royal Highness's income he knew not; but he was persuaded that, in agreeing to that proposition, the House had no intention of imprisoning her Royal Highness in this country, or of preventing her Royal Highness from residing wherever considerations of her own pleasure or convenience might induce her to take up her abode.
was sure that the House must be surprised to hear from the noble lord that the residence of her royal highness the Princess of Wales in England was to be considered an imprisonment. The noble lord had just declared, that he did not know what were her Royal Highness's intentions in going to the continent. This he would say, that when her Royal Highness applied to his Majesty's ministers on the subject they betrayed their trust if they did not inform themselves thoroughly of the nature of her Royal Highness's intentions. As the proceedings of the House would necessarily be interrupted in a few minutes, he felt it to be a point of candour to abstain from making a number of other observations which presented themselves to his mind, but to which it would be impossible that he should receive any reply. He was sure the House, in their recent grant, had never contemplated the departure of her Royal Highness from this country. (Mr. Rose laughed audibly). The right hon. gentleman seemed mightily entertained at this declaration. Perhaps the right hon. gentleman knew more of the subject than any of them.—Perhaps he might be able to tell the House what were her Royal Highness's intentions, although the noble lord had not been so. He would say no more than again enter his protest against his Majesty's ministers allowing her Royal Highness to quit the country without completely ascertaining her Royal Highness's motives, and without taking measures to insure her early return.
, in explanation, observed, that no one could suppose he had used the word 'imprisonment' in its strongest sense. If any illiberal attempt were made to prevent her Royal Highness from quitting this country, if she thought fit, then, in that sense, he might be allowed to say, that she would be imprisoned in this country.
said, that his mirth had been excited by the most extravagant, not to say the most absurd, statements and assertions of the right hon. gentleman. The right hon. gentleman was perfectly free to explain what were his own motives for voting for an increased allowance to her royal highness the Princess of Wales; but, when he proceeded to identify the House of Commons with himself, and unequivocally to declare, that it was the sense of the House, not to allow her Royal Highness to go out of the country; it was im- possible to listen to any thing so whimsically extravagant without being provoked to a smile.
expressed his readiness to submit to all the imputations and misrepresentations of the right hon. gentleman and his friends; perfectly satisfied, as he was, that there was not a thinking man from one end of the island to the other, who would not feel the greatest alarm at the step which her Royal Highness was about to take. With respect to his hon. friend (Mr. Whitbread), who had been described by the noble lord as being in possession of her Royal Highness's confidence, he had his hon. friend's authority for stating, not only that he had not advised her Royal Highness to quit the country, but that he had most earnestly advised her not to do so.
Here the conversation dropped.
Commercial Intercourse with France
wished to ask his Majesty's ministers a question. It had been recently rumoured, that a proposition had been made by the government of France to the government of England, to admit all articles, the respective produce of the two countries, reciprocally, on the payment of a low duty—he believed 10 per cent ad valorem. From this proposition such great advantages seemed likely to arise to Great Britain, that he wished to know whether it had actually been made. If it had, he hoped it had been met in a similar spirit of liberality on our part.
replied, that the hon. baronet might rest assured, that any proposition made to the British government, which was founded on the principles of a liberal commercial intercourse with other nations, would certainly be received with the utmost cordiality and attention. It could not be expected, however, that he would at present state any thing with respect to any precise proposition that might have been made by any foreign power.
Norway
asked the noble lord, whether he was aware, or if he was not aware, whether he thought it right to say, if there would be any impediment to the discussion of the affairs of Sweden and Norway at the approaching Congress? However the urgency of the existing circumstances might, at the time, seem to sanction it, there was certainly a large body of individuals in this country, who thought that our treaty with Sweden, as it respected the annexation of Norway to that power, extremely unjust; and he was persuaded, therefore, that it would give great and general satisfaction, if the noble lord could feel justified in holding out a hope, that this unfortunate affair might probably be put in a train of arrangement.
said, that he could not take upon himself to give any reply to the hon. gentleman.
Mesne Process
presented a Petition from Hannah Jackson, widow of the late Joseph Jackson, of Sheffield, Yorkshire; who died under imprisonment for debt on Mesne Process, in the King's bench prison, on the 18th day of this instant July, was presented and read; praying, that an Act may pass to abolish for ever, by law, the imprisonment for debt on Mesne Process; or that some check may be put to the existing power of the fictitious creditor, by means of which the civil liberty of the subject may be most grossly violated.
Ordered to lie upon the table.
Prorogation of Parliament
The Usher of the Black Rod then made his appearance, and summoned the House to attend his royal highness the Prince Regent's Speech, in the House of Lords. On their return, the Speaker took his seat at the table, and beckoning all the members around him, read a copy of his Royal Highness's Speech on proroguing parliament; after which they separated.