said, that as he could not anticipate any opposition, or even objection, to the Bill which he was about to propose, he felt it to be unnecessary to trouble the House with more than a very few words. The House would recollect, that in the course of the last session of parliament, two very important measures, regarding the preservation of the peace in Ireland, had met with their sanction. By one of them, the lord-lieutenant was empowered to proclaim any district in Ireland to be in a state of disturbance, and to appoint a chief magistrate and a certain number of special constables, for the superintendance of the general police of the district so disturbed. A doubt had arisen, whether, in case that two baronies, adjacent to each other, but situated in different counties, should be unfortunately disturbed, and it should be necessary to subject them to the operation of the Bill above mentioned—whether, as the Bill now stood, it would not be necessary to appoint a separate establishment of police in each barony; when, from the limited extent of the two, one would be sufficient for the superintendance of both? Now, as the executive government of Ireland had no wish whatever to multiply the number of appointments under the Bill, or to subject the disturbed districts to any charge that was not absolutely necessary, his present object was, to remove any doubt of the nature before mentioned, to enable the lord-lieutenant to appoint a high magistrate and one set of constables for the two baronies, and to determine the proportion of expense which should be defrayed by each. This was the main object of the Bill which he was about to introduce, and he had therefore thought it expedient to take this opportunity of adding one or two clauses, requiring the magistrate and the constables to take certain oaths, which were set forth in the Bill.

He felt, however, that the House had a right to require from him, when speaking in reference to a subject of so much importance to the prosperity and happiness of the united kingdom as the internal tranquillity of Ireland, that he should inform them what had been the proceeding adopted by the executive government of Ireland under the act of last session. He had the satisfaction of assuring the House, he had reason to believe that the passing of those acts had been attended with beneficial consequences. To the provisions of the Insurrection Act, it had not been, and he most sincerely hoped that it would not be necessary to resort; and the Peace Preservation Bill had only been called into operation in one single instance, at the unanimous application of a most numerous and respectable meeting of the magistrates of the county of Tipperary. The barony of Middlethird had been proclaimed: he had every reason to believe, that, in the improved tranquillity of that district, and the returning habits of subordination among the lower orders of the peasants, the inhabitants had ample compensation for the charge to which the application of the Bill had subjected them; but the good effects of it had been witnessed, not merely within the narrow sphere to which its operation was nominally confined, but had induced the inhabitants of the neighbouring districts to unite, and to act with energy, for the preservation of the peace, in order that they might escape the tax which the Act would impose, if applied to their districts.

He would take the liberty of adducing one proof of the veracity of his statement. In one of the reports made by Mr. Wilcox, the chief magistrate appointed in Middlethird, it was stated, that the house of a person resident in the barony of Clanwillan, had been attacked and robbed of aims. A party of labourers, having a suspicion of one of the parties concerned in the robbery, took measures for his apprehension; and, headed by a man of the name of Flinn, pursued the robber, and secured him. The man was identified, and committed to Clonmel gaol. The persons who apprehended him, declared they had done so, in order to keep the tax off their barony; and that no outrage should be committed in their neighbourhood, which would not be followed by their best exertions to bring the perpetrators of it to justice. Here was a combination, singular to be found in its nature, but most beneficial in its consequences—a combination in support of the law of the land.

He might mention, as another proof of the favourable efficacy of the measure, that there was not an enemy to the peace of Ireland, who did not cordially disapprove of it. He hardly knew whether he should descend to notice the gross, and probably wilful misconceptions, which had been resorted to by evil and designing men, in order to bring the measure into disrepute. It had been asserted, that its object was to provide for the adherents of government, and to multiply the means of patronage: he begged the House to judge of the future intentions of government, not from the statements of its enemies, but from their conduct, to that instant in which the opportunity of exercising their authority had occurred in the barony of Middlethird; the chief magistrate selected was, he believed, above all exception, and his appointment free even from the suspicion of any motives but the best. The constables were selected from a list of discharged non-commissioned officers, who could produce the strongest certificates of personal ability, good conduct and character. He defied, and he trusted should always be able to defy, any imputation to raise suspicion, that the government of Ireland had so grossly deserted their duty, as to make the authority with which the House had entrusted them solely for the purpose of restoring tranquillity, directly or indirectly subservient to the extent of their political influence. The hon. gentleman concluded by moving, "That leave be given to bring in a Bill to amend the Act of the 54th Geo. 3, c. 131, to provide for the better execution of the laws in Ireland, by appointing Superintending Magistrates and additional Constables in Counties, in certain cases."

Leave being given to bring in the Bill, it was accordingly presented, and read a first time.

rose, to move for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Act of last session respecting hackney coaches, from which considerable inconveniencies had arisen. He owed it to the House and to the public, to state some circumstances relative to this measure. When he entered on the office which he had the honour to hold, he found that frequent application had been made by the commissioners of hackney-coaches, for the sanction of government to better regulations for the hackney-coachmen. It was stated by the commissioners that 170 licences were vacant, and that the horses were in a most wretched state, and the coaches intolerably dirty belonging to those which were used. This was entirely owing to the frauds practised by the drivers on the coach-masters. The commissioners were asked, what could be done? They consulted the hackney-coach masters, and the act which passed last session was the result of their suggestions. A correspondence of some length had lately taken place on the subject, and the result was, that it was admitted on all hands that there was no way but to repeal the clause of the act which respected the giving of tickets, and hereafter to introduce some measure which should be more fully considered. This clause repealed, all that would be left would be the clauses limiting the number of persons to be carried in the coaches, and authorizing the commissioners to grant licences for hackney-chariots. At a future period of the session he might, perhaps, propose further regulations; at present he would merely move, "That leave be given to bring in a Bill to amend the Act of the 54th Geo. 3, C. 147, for the better regulation of drivers of licensed hackney coaches; for explaining and amending an Act passed in the 48th year of his present Majesty, relating to hackney-coaches; and for authorizing the licensing of a limited number of hackney-chariots."

Leave was given to bring in the Bill.

wished not to oppose the motion, but to make a few observations on a question of much importance connected with it. The right hon. gentleman had last night admitted that the Property fax Act would expire on the 5th of April. If there was any intention to renew it, it be- hoved every gentleman to give the subject his most serious attention. His only object in rising was to state, that if the Act should be renewed, he trusted it would contain some provision to temper its severity, and particularly its inquisitorial character, which pressed as hard upon the feelings of the people as the tax itself did on their pockets. He would also recommend, in the event of a renewal of the Act, that some provision should be introduced to render the tax less unequal, and in consequence less unjust in its operation. He alluded to the scale of contribution. What he meant was, that persons in the middle classes of life, who possessed an income from two hundred to five hundred pounds, should not be subject to the same percentage as persons whose income amounted to ten, twenty, or fifty thousand pounds. There was another desirable thing, of minor, but yet of considerable importance, and that was, that some restraint should be imposed, either by way of oath or penalty, which should secure individuals from the exposure of their incomes by the commissioners. It was a matter of great surprise to him, that no such provision existed in the present Act. In this latter observation he begged not to be by any means understood to refer to the commissioners for the general purposes of the Act, who had discharged their duty with so much honour to themselves, but to those who carried into effect its details:

said, that he was not aware that it would be necessary for him at the present moment to enter into any statement with respect to the vote which he was about to propose, any further than to say, it was to supply the amount of bills drawn for army extra-ordinaries. Should any explanations, however, be required, he should be very happy to afford them. He moved, "That it is the opinion of this committee, that a sum, not exceeding eight millions, be granted to his Majesty, towards making good the amount of bills of exchange drawn upon the lords commissioners of his Majesty's Treasury for the extraordinary expenses of the army, and which have been paid out of money issued to the pay- master of the forces, between the 24th day of December 1813 and the 1st day of November 1814."

thought it highly extraordinary that the right hon. gentleman should call on the committee to vote so large a sum as 8,000,000l. simply on the ground that he wanted it, without any explanation whatever. He was far from wishing to throw any difficulties in the way of government, but it ought to be remembered by the committee, that 9,000,000l. had been voted for the same purpose last year, of which no account had been given, except the simple one that it had been expended. Every body knew that the army extraordinaries embraced a number of subjects, of which the details might and ought to be given. But this 9,000,000l. it seemed was gone, and it was now succeeded by a proposition for 8,000,000l. more, which, added to the vote of credit, made a sum of above 20,000,000l. of the public money, of the expenditure of which parliament actually knew nothing! Was it decent (he did not use the word invidiously) to treat the House thus? If, without giving any further information, the right hon. gentleman proceeded, he dared to say he would carry his point, but he must protest against the proceeding as highly indecorous. There was another point also on which he had last night understood the right hon. gentleman to say he would enter into a detailed statement, namely, our subsidiary agreements with the continental powers.

said, he had no other motive than the convenience of the committee for abstaining from making any observations prior to his motion. He was neither unwilling nor unprepared to afford all the explanation which the honourable gentleman desired. The honourable gentleman had said that the sum moved for was of great magnitude. Certainly it was; of so considerable magnitude, when combined with the votes to which parliament had already come on the same subject, that nothing but the extraordinary circumstances which were in the recollection of all who heard him, could account for the amount. He had conceived that it would be more convenient to the committee to abstain from details until the accounts should be on the table, by which they would be minutely explained: but he had no objection to proceed at present, and make a general statement of the whole. He repeated, that when the great amount of our military expenses was considered, nothing could justify that expenditure but the result. He was perfectly aware, that unless he were able to shew (as shew he could with perfect ease) that, if parliament had not entrusted to his Majesty's ministers the mighty means which had been confided to them, the duke of Wellington would, at this moment, have been defending the frontiers of Portugal, and our allies have been pursuing a hopeless war, or have made a separate and inglorious peace, on the Vistula or the Oder, he should not be justified in proposing the vote of that evening. But, satisfied as he was that the events which had taken place could be proved to be the results of the liberality of the British Parliament, with as much certainty as any thing could be proved that depended on the contingency of human affairs, he had no difficulty or hesitation on the subject. The accounts that had been laid on the table would show, that a sum nearly amounting to 19,000,000l. had been drawn this year by bills on the Treasury for Army Extraordinaries. He would state the places from which they had proceeded, the amount from each place, and subsequently their objects. Guernsey and Jersey, 24,000l.; Heligoland, 46,000l.; Germany and the North of France, 1,411,000l.; Spain, Portugal, and the South of France, 8,012,000l.; Gibraltar and the Mediterranean, 4,259,000l. The two latter sums, amounting to little less than 13,000,000l. were the immediate consequence of the war in the Peninsula The West Indies, 889,000l.; North America, 3,112,000l.; South America, 233,000l. There were several other smaller sums, making a total of 18,900,000l. It would appear by the papers that our expenditure in the Peninsula alone, including the sums drawn from other quarters, but applied to the same service, during the year amounted to at least 15,000,000l. To all those who recollected the situation of things two years ago, nothing could be more obvious than that there was at that time a great crisis in the affairs of Europe. At the moment of the explosion of the war between France and Russia, it was clear, that whoever was the conqueror would remain master of the destinies of the world. Had the French emperor succeeded in his design of subjugating Russia, England would have been the only nation in the world who could have withstood his arms; if, indeed, she could have stood alone amidst the general ruin. This appeared to those who at the time were entrusted with the conduct of British policy, a crisis in which all minor considerations must yield to the necessity of a most vigorous exertion. Nothing short of an expenditure, which might almost be called unlimited, and which was not calculated upon any former experience, was in fact adequate to the occasion. He well remembered an expression made use of by the right hon. gentleman opposite at that period. When he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) in consequence of the view which his Majesty's government took of public affairs, submitted to parliament a plan of furnishing means of expenditure nearly unlimited, and at the same time without pressing immediately on the country, the hon. gentleman exclaimed, "There are large funds provided; I have no doubt we shall have vigorous war; and I dare say they will all be expended in one year." The hon. gentleman was not disappointed—they had a vigorous war; and the world was not disappointed in the consequences: but in his calculation he was not equally happy: the funds, which the right hon. gentleman predicted would be expended in one year, have been found sufficient for three years, even of such expenditure as we have lately seen. But to revert to his subject: In 1812, soon after the deplorable catastrophe, which had placed him in his present office, by depriving the country of the services of one of the most virtuous and amiable of men, the duke of Wellington wrote to his Majesty's government, informing them that he found, whatever military force he possessed, he could not extend his operations without a much greater supply of money. Unprovided with this, he must remain chained to the posts which he then occupied, and to a defensive system, as he could not advance to a distance from the supplies he received by sea; but he thought that if he could be furnished with about 100,000l. a month, he might be able to do much. His Majesty's ministers undertook to afford him this supply under any inconvenience, and at whatever hazard. During the first year, they furnished him with money at about the rate of 150,000l. a month. In the last year this supply was considerably increased; and during the spring of the present year it was sometimes carried as high as 400,000l. or 500,000l. a month. Of the money thus remitted from this country to the duke of Wellington about 3,300,000l. was in specie, besides 410,000l. in specie imported from South America, (a part of which, however, had since been sent to Canada) so that a sum of not much less than 4,000,000l. had been furnished in specie for the use of the British army. To all this was to be added large sums drawn by bills on the Treasury, which made the whole amount that which he had already stated. The fact was, that even with every aid that could be afforded him, it required all the profound skill and admirable combination of our great commander to effect a movement of the British army through a country so exhausted as that in which it was to operate, and to furnish it with an adequate supply in its march. Having said so much of the exertions made by us in Spain and the South of France, he would proceed, in compliance with the hint of the hon. gentleman, to explain those engagements with our allies, to which, in some degree, was attributable the glorious success of the campaign in the North. Many of these engagements had already received the sanction of parliament, as would appear by the papers on the table. By the treaty of Chaumont, the British government agreed to advance to Austria, Russia, and Prussia, the sum of 5,000,000l. for the year 1814, if the war should last the whole year; if not, then a proportionate payment of two months was to be allowed to Austria and Prussia after the signature of peace, and of four months to Russia, to assist the troops of those nations to return to their respective countries. The whole of the money which we had thus stipulated to pay, had been discharged, with the exception of a sum for the Russian fleet, respecting which some difficulty had arisen, that had been referred to the adjustment of his noble friend at Vienna.—[Mr. Tierney inquired the amount of that sum.]—The sum remaining in doubt was not very considerable, about 100,000l. more or less. To Austria and Prussia we had paid 970,000l. each, their proportion for seven months of the third of the 5,000,000l.; to Russia 1,250,000l.; to Sweden 500,000l. for five months subsidy for the war; and 300,000l. being three months allowance for the return of the Swedish troops to Sweden; 10,000 Danes had also been subsidized, according to the treaty on the table of the House, and 150,000l. had been paid to Denmark in consequence. By a treaty, long since laid on the table of the House, it was stipulated that 400,000l. should be received annually by his Sicilian majesty to the end of the war. The proportion had been paid. He had recently explained the nature of our pecuniary engagements with Portugal and Spain. For some years we had made Portugal a formal allowance of 2,000,000l. annually, partly paid in money, and partly furnished in supplies. Of that sum we had paid Portugal the proper proportion for the service of her troops in the present year, and four months allowance for their return. With Spain, we had no such regular agreement, but we had advanced 1,000,000l. a year to the aid of the Spanish armies, of which we had paid Spain her proportion, together with the allowance for the return of her troops. We had also afforded considerable assistance to the Spanish government, in advances of supplies, which it had been agreed to consider as a loan, for which that government was still indebted to us. The only remaining article was a subsidiary corps of 15,000 Hanoverians, placed originally under the command of the crown prince of Sweden, and now garrisoning the towns of the Netherlands. We had only, however, paid half the expense of these troops since the month of July, and even that would eventually be repaid. The right hon. gentleman here recapitulated the various sums, and stated that the total was somewhat less than 7,300,000l.

Towards the defraying these subsidiary payments, parliament had first granted the sum of 4,200,000l. and afterwards granted three millions more, by way of vote of credit, falling only one hundred thousand pounds short of the payments. He had entered into this detail, though it was not, strictly speaking, connected with what was more immediately before the House. He had no reason to believe that the deficiency would, when the accounts of the whole of the army extraordinaries were made out more completely, differ materially from the sum which he had stated to them as arising from the bills drawn on the Treasury alone. It would be, he believed, made good by about two millions more than the vote of eight millions, which he should immediately propose.

wished to know from the right hon. gentleman, whether he included the two millions in the votes of nineteen millions, or whether it was to be in addition to them?

said, he included the two millions in the nineteen millions. Some further deficiency might perhaps occur; but so far as he could judge, the further sum of ten millions would be about equal to the whole of the deficiency of the army extraordinaries. Having stated these particulars to the House, he had only further to observe, that however extraordinary the result of our military operations had been, however much they had to congratulate themselves on the state of the country, and although retrenchments to a considerable extent had been already made, and would be made to a greater extent hereafter, yet the circumstances in which the country was placed, rendered it still necessary to call for fresh exertions. A considerable saving in our expenses had been already effected. They were at present two millions a month less than they were last year. This led him to hope, that whenever the unfortunate contest with America was brought to a close, such a reduction of our charges would take place, as would place our expenses within our means. At present, however, the country must certainly look for a continuation of great exertions. The House, and the public, who had borne, for so many years, the extraordinary charges called for by the operations which had led to such great and glorious results, would not surely forbear to continue them, when they became necessary to enable them to reap the benefit of the sacrifices they had already made: and they would, he had no doubt, be ready, as far as in their power, to make every exertion which the situation of the country might still demand.

regretted to hear this call upon the country for fresh exertions, after the very great exertions which they had already made. So far from the statement which they had heard from the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer being at all satisfactory to him, he had no hesitation in saying, that he would not vote for the sum wanted, without a more distinct explanation than that which had been given. The statement which the right hon. gentleman had made to them, he dared to say was correct as far as it went; but, without the necessary documental explanations, he could not consider himself as justified in giving his vote. It would seem that government thought they had nothing more to do, at any time, than to ask for a grant of money without producing any accounts, merely because the usual time was not arrived for making out these accounts. If this practice were suffered to be continued, he had no hesitation in saying, that there would be an end to every thing like investigation. The House now knew distinctly what the meaning of ministers was, when they called on them for great exertions. This language had been so often used in the course of the former war, that its import was now fully appreciated. Whenever the House ventured to repose any confidence in ministers, they seemed perfectly disposed to carry the power reposed in them to the utmost extent. He thought that government had dealt somewhat unfairly by them; ministers seemed to imagine, that they might enter into any engagements to any extent, without ever taking the sense of parliament on the subject; and that these engagements would be afterwards ratified as things of course by the House, although it had never had an opportunity of knowing, previously, any thing of the matter. The right hon. gentleman might have informed the House of all those particulars which he had communicated to them that night, before the end of last session; for, as far as he could collect from the dates detailed to them, there was nothing which was not known before the 30th of July. In return for the confidence placed in government by the House, they thought they had nothing to do but to lead them on in the dark, and to act exactly as they pleased. When the necessity for making greater exertions in the prosecution of the war in the Peninsula had been formerly suggested, and when a noble lord retired from his situation in the government, because the war was not prosecuted on a sufficiently extensive scale, ministers then contended, that it was impossible to increase the expenditure and yet, without the knowledge of parliament, ministers had now embarked on a sea of expenses. As a member of parliament, it was utterly impossible for him to vote a sum of this magnitude, without knowing better why he was voting it. The House seemed now but too much disposed to vote enormous sums of money as mere matters of course. When he first came into that House as a member of parliament, more add was made on Mr. Pitt's proposing five or six hundred thousand pounds, than now, when they were asked for 15 or 20 millions. He had the less hesitation in opposing the present vote, as, by so doing, he could no longer be said to interfere with the pro- gress of the war. It could not be now urged, that by opposing ministers, he was palsying government—that we were now in a great and momentous crisis. The crisis was now determined. Ministers, however, thought they had only to say, we want eight millions at present; there is no occasion for asking any further questions about it now, you shall have an opportunity of talking when we want two millions more by-and-bye, and you might to vote without farther information than what has been given to you." He was ready to say, that he had no doubt the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer had given them all the information in his power; but he wished a more detailed statement than that which he had received. This matter ought to be thoroughly investigated by the committee. How, he would ask, were we to go on with the American war? They had got the alarming word 'great exertions;' this was a very vague expression: what one might think very handsome, another might view in a very different light. Ministers thought, because they called for money before Christmas, and the time was not arrived for making out the public accounts, that the House must at once vote the money. Before, however, he had had an opportunity of entering into a critical examination of the grounds on which ministers demanded this sum, he could not consent to give his vote for it. The House must be infatuated, if, with the prospect of another war before them, they continued to repose this sort of unlimited confidence in ministers. Either from error, or a love of concealment, they had kept the House completely in the dark;—they might have given the whole of the information of this night, before the close of last session. He understood from the right hon. gentleman, that 75,000 men ought to be kept up on the continent; he understood also that a certain quantity of troops were to be kept up; but then he did not understand if the troops kept up were partly to be composed of Hanoverians.—['Yes,' from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, across the table.] Why, then, he was to understand that they did—then the 15,000 Hanoverian troops were not to be paid by this government, but by Hanover.

said, that one half of the expense of these troops was only to be advanced by this country, and that half was afterwards to be repaid.

asked what security they had for the repayment? The right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, not contented with asking him to place confidence in himself, now wished him to place confidence in the Chancellor of the Hanoverian Exchequer also. So then, under this blessed treaty, until the repartition of Europe was completed, Hanover, which had been made a kingdom, and was to gain a great accession of territory, was to have the whole of the benefit without being at any of the expense. In order that Hanover should be made a kingdom and gain an accession of territory, England was to pay for it. Did the right hon. gentleman mean to say that Hanover had no funds of its own? If he was rightly informed, there was a considerable sum standing in this country in the name of the Regency of Hanover. Did the right hon. gentleman mean to say, then, that all this expense was to be borne by this country for Hanover? Every farthing which was now voted must be supplied by direct taxes; for the House were very much mistaken, indeed, if they supposed that every farthing which they voted had not to be made good in that way. Hanover was to be the gainer, but England the payer. Every expense of every state whatever, was, one would think, to be borne by this country. If Russia chose to send her ships of war here, we were to pay her for her men of war remaining in our harbours. He would ask the House, if the time did not seem to be now arrived, when it became necessary to watch with the utmost vigilance over our future expenditure? He only asked the House to suspend payment of the sums demanded from them till they had the proper documents, because, if they did not act in this manner, they would have no check for improper payments in future. With respect to the present vote he should observe, that he conceived the bills drawn on the Treasury formed the smallest part of the army extraordinaries. He wished to ask, therefore, if the whole of the army extraordinaries were included in the sum of 10 millions, the sum now on the table, and if this included all payments whatever to the troops? [The Chancellor of the Exchequer answered across the table in the affirmative.] Then he was to understand that this included every thing that had been incurred up to the period he was speaking. He was glad that was the case. The House seemed to hear demands of millions made upon them with a complacency which sheaved that they were great lovers of their country: on this subject their nerves seemed to be strong enough for any thing. All he asked was, that they would not vote that money away in such a manner as to encourage repetition of what they had witnessed. To shew their confidence in ministers, the House gave them a vote of credit, beyond which they had no right to pay one single sixpence without receiving the approbation of parliament. During the last session of parliament, ministers knew they were going on in a career which would lead to a great excess over the vote of credit, and yet they had kept parliament entirely in the dark. Though peace had been the result of the operations in which the country was embarked, yet that was no reason why he should ask no questions respecting the manner in which the expenditure was incurred. He would contend that there would be an end of all the functions of parliament, if they agreed to vote this eight millions without inquiring further for what they were voting.

said, he conceived the sums now asked, with those formerly voted, would be sufficient to cover every head of Army Extraordinaries. Having given an answer to what he might, he hoped without offence, call the pertinent part of the speech of the right hon. gentleman, he would next notice some other particulars which the right hon. gentleman had, in his opinion, alluded to with less propriety. He had said, that it was extraordinary parliament should be now called to make good what was not communicated to them during the last session, although then known to ministers. Now, he would say that every one of the measures adopted by ministers had been previously communicated to parliament, and had received their sanction, except that small portion of them which related to Hanover. The right hon. gentleman seemed to think it no excuse for the Treasury that it was impossible for them to do otherwise than they did.

said, it might be impossible for the right hon. gentleman to account for the whole of the 10 millions at the present moment, but it was not impossible for him to give an account of a certain proportion of it.

said, that what he asked was to have the arrear already incurred defrayed. Whether this money should be accounted for satisfactorily or not, it must be defrayed at the public expense. He trusted that they would be able to account satisfactorily for every farthing intrusted to them; but at all events, whatever censure might fall on themselves, the burden would not the less fall on the public. The question of merit or demerit was still open to the House. The right hon. gentleman had asked why However did not pay her own troops? The fact was, that we employed Hanoverian troops exactly in the same manner as we employed any other subsidiary troops, for our own purposes, and not for the purposes of the government of Hanover. Hanover would undoubtedly pay its own forces, when its own interest was concerned. No states but the four great powers were called on to make any exertions for the maintenance of such a force as was thought adequate for the common purpose. Had Hanover been called on to produce its contingent, it would no doubt have done so; but it had no more been called on than many other powers; some of which, as Bavaria for instance, were much more able than Hanover to keep up a large military establishment. He thought he had already sufficiently explained the reason why Hanover was made a kingdom. This was a point with which this country had no concern whatever. The resolution was taken without consulting this country, or any of his Majesty's advisers here. The resolution was formed by the principal powers of Germany, as it was thought the titles of electors could no longer be retained with any degree of propriety. Surely, when there was no longer any emperor to elect, there could be no use for electors! Whether the powers of Germany chose to be called grand dukes or kings, or by any other title, this country had no concern with it: this much with respect to the point of Hanover. He was rather a little surprised to hear the right hon. gentleman speak in the way he did about the Russian ships which had been in our harbours, and had co-operated with our own navy. This country had been so struck with the confidence reposed in us by Russia, of placing its fleet at our disposal at the time it took place, that he believed there was no sum which we would pay with greater pleasure than that which was demanded for the Russian fleet.

thought, that if However was to acquire considerable accessions, she ought to contribute to the expense of the acquisition. But he wished to draw the attention of the House to the subject more immediately before them, the army extraordinaries. Here, he confessed, it would not much aid his purpose, even if he had the details which his right hon. friend had asked for; for when they did come, they were always so little satisfactory, and so insufficient for any purpose of explanation, that it was almost immaterial when they were laid on the table of the House. They would merely show that there was drawn by Mr. Commissary Such-a-one bills for 30 many millions on the Treasury, and so many by another; but the House were never acquainted with the real nature of the expenditure. A great many sums, for instance, were drawn in the Mediterranean which were expended in Spain, the place from which the bills were drawn throwing thus no light on the place or nature of the expenditure. Not only were the House unacquainted with the nature of the expenditure, but he would venture to say that his Majesty's ministers were themselves unacquainted with it; for no man, he believed, in any department under government, knew any more than the House, when they were told that so much was drawn in one quarter, and so much in another. The fact was, that no account of military expenditure since 1807 had been audited. There was not only no account before this House, but there was no account before any department of government, of any expenditure in the Mediterranean, the Peninsula, or America, for the last seven or eight years, which was audited.—[Hear! from the ministerial bench.] He was happy to hear the cheering of the gentlemen opposite, as he trusted they would be able to afford the explanation which he wanted; and it was his intention, therefore, to move for these accounts up to the period when they were audited. He thought he might venture to say, that not one account of the expenditure in the Peninsula was audited. The right hon. gentleman at the head of the finances was possessed of as little information as the House. He wished to call the attention of the House to the enormous abuses in the expenditure in the Peninsula. He alluded to the manner in which the expenditure was made in the Peninsula. It was true the results had been great, but the country were not to consider those results alone, or the hero who was so justly the pride of the country. It was the duty of the House to stand between the examination of these accounts and abuses. The House should rather feel themselves under a necessity of guarding against any impressions of that kind. It was not to that great man, however, but to the conduct of the persons under whose care the commissariat was placed, that he objected to it. The supplies were furnished in different parts of Spain, principally by muleteers, and persons of a similar description, who provided cattle and mules for transport and otherwise; and they were paid in this manner: they received a certificate of the service, stating that so much had been performed, and that so much was due to them. This was the manner in which all payments were made. Now let any gentleman suppose, if a Spanish army was in the midst of the mountains of Wales, and was to give Spanish certificates to the Welsh mountaineers for what was furnished to them, and consider what the consequence would be. The certificates were sold at a discount of from 50 to 60 per cent. If the House were to appoint a committee to examine into this matter, they would find that the persons furnishing had not received more than one third of what was paid by the public. The real nature of the transaction was this; the commissaries, or their friends, paid the certificates: a certain description of sharks followed the army, who bought up this paper from these poor fellows. Enormous fortunes had in this way been made in Spain. If a committee should be appointed to inquire into this, it would be found that he was not overstating the discount, when he called it 50 per cent. He had seen a letter in which it was stated at 55 per cent. On the 28th of October last, it was at 25 per cent.; and the commissary paper at Lisbon at 8 and 9l. per cent. discount. He would put it to the Committee, what any government could be about, when, year after year, they suffered things to go on in this manner, and allow the public money to be so squandered away. He knew it would be said, there was a difficulty of procuring specie; but if specie had been procured at Lisbon, or any where else, the people would have given for one-third of a dollar what the country would have to pay a dollar for. The Committee would observe, that it was the system itself which occasioned the difficulties. Ten millions were paid for what could have been obtained for four or five millions. Even now, with the means of getting as much specie as could be wished for, as, for the last twelve months, it had been nearly at par, and there was a great demand for bills on Cadiz, Lisbon and Gibraltar, this practice was continued, and the paper was at a great discount. Every practice had been resorted to to check this currency paper, and to vilify it. He never had had any concern with it himself, but he had seen a letter from a person engaged in carrying on this business, stating that he could buy this paper at 30, 28 and 27l. percent discount; but it was so hazardous a matter, that he did not like to engage deeply in it. There were many forgeries, and there were no means of carrying the paper to persons in office for the purpose of being verified. The public thus suffered all the effects of a depreciation arising from this cause, for a want of appointing proper offices for verification. At Bourdeaux the discount upon government paper was also great; and it was the general persuasion of of all persons acquainted with the subject, that great fortunes must have been made in the way he had described: he could quote no particular instances; but from the nature of the transactions, and from the dispositions of men, it must inevitably be so. Where there were the means of obtaining money, the opportunity would not be lost. The fault was, that the agents of government did not procure specie at Lisbon, Cadiz, or some other large cities, at a discount certainly, but not so enormous as under the mode that had been adopted, and with the additional security, that those into whose hands the bills passed would be aware of their value. Ignorant peasants and muleteers, who could not read, were not very good judges of the actual worth of a bill upon the British Treasury. It was obvious, that at some time or other the House must appoint a committee; and when it was nominated, Mr. Baring said he would undertake to establish in evidence all that he had stated. Of the difficulty of examining the accounts in a satisfactory manner, after so long a period had elapsed, he spoke at some length, and observed, under such a system it was not a matter of surprise that government should be imposed upon. Yet the same thing was now going on in America. He thought it might be expedient to appoint a committee to audit the accounts annually. The war in Spain had commenced in 1808, and it was not till 1813 that a person was sent out to audit the accounts. The individual sent was a very respectable man, but he believed not very fit for the business which he was directed to perform. He had understood the commissaries in the Peninsula had refused to give in their accounts to him, and that he found it not only difficult, but impossible to bring them to hook. While the right hon. gentleman exhorted them to look the expenditure of the country boldly in the face, he hoped he would look these gentlemen in the face, and that he, or at least the House, would see their accounts closely examined.

wished to call the attention of the committee to a point in which the honour and character of the nation were concerned. The right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer had asserted in his speech that this country was now paying half the war subsidy to Sicily, in consideration of her still being at war with Naples. Was not Great Britain in a state of amity with that kingdom; and if so, upon what system of policy was it that she was to pay a subsidy to Sicily, to carry on hostilities with a power with whom she herself was at peace? This contradiction required some explanation. It seemed indeed as if Ministers were very anxious to get rid of the public money, when they squandered it on such paradoxical schemes.

replied, that the part of the subsidy in question was not paid merely in consideration of her being at war with Naples, but in consequence of an agreement to continue the payment of half the subsidy stipulated by treaty, until the Congress of Vienna should fix the extent of the dominion of the kingdom of Sicily. With respect to the suggestion of the necessity of the appointment of a committee to audit public accounts, if a committee could have pointed out the proper remedy, it would long ago have been adopted. Mr. Pitt, the Speaker, the marquis of. Lansdowne, and the hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Bankes), had all given unwearied attention to this subject, but none had been able to remedy the evil. He did not think that in the present instance there was much to meet complaint, for three of the commissaries general had already transmitted their accounts to England, and the fourth had sent them to the auditor in the Peninsula, appointed to examine commissaries accounts upon the spot. He was well aware that great frauds might have been committed under the appearance of regu- lar vouchers; but no pains had been spared to detect them, and where suspicion existed, to sift the subject thoroughly. Whatever opinion the hon. gentleman might entertain of the persons forming the commissariat department, the country was undoubtedly greatly indebted to such of them as discharged their duty with diligence and fidelity. Guilt might be found perhaps among them, but it was not fair to make them all objects of suspicion; he was sure that many would willingly lend their aid to strip the garb of truth from falsehood, and to separate the innocent from the guilty. The hon. gentleman did not seem to be aware of the great difficulty of obtaining specie at all times, and in all situations: it was found inevitaby necessary to resort to some negotiable government paper, although the agents had been strictly charged to lose no opportunity of procuring the more substantial substitute. To this country one of the most satisfactory parts of the great result was, that the exchange had of late been constantly improving: nothing could more strongly prove the invincible vigour and activity of British commerce, even under all the disadvantages resulting from a considerable part of our population having left this country for France, on excursions of pleasure, as well as from the great expenditure of the government. In the contest with America, there was at least one satisfaction, that this issue of government paper, so much complained of, need not take place, since we could procure a quantity of specie adequate to the wants of our army. There yet remained due on account of the Spanish war, between 7 and 8 millions of dollars, so far as appeared by the last estimates transmitted, but which might prove incomplete.

again asserted, that the mode of payment in the Peninsula had opened a wide door for plunder and peculation. The way a commissary could avail himself of this was plain. Having hired mules at a dollar per day, it was easy to send a man to purchase the certificates of service with which the owner of them was paid. This, in most cases, could be effected for about one-third of their value; and the commissary would have a good document to shew, one that he (Mr. Baring) dared to say would not be scrupled at Somerset-house. This gentleman, possessed of these vouchers, might sit down in any county of England, with a fortune of half a million, and still be considered one of those immaculately virtuous characters to whom the right hon. gentleman had alluded. He meant to reflect on no individual, and was anxious not to appear to do so on sir R. Kennedy, a gentleman whom he well knew, and knew to be a man of unblemished honour; but he thought it would be prudent in ministers to make the gentlemen of the commissariat give in their accounts before they made them knights and baronets. He again contended, that none of the accounts connected with the war on the Peninsula had been passed. This dilatoriness he contrasted with the promptitude which marked the East India Company's system; they had the accounts of the expenditure in their Indian wars investigated and settled with the utmost correctness and regularity. As the right hon. gentleman had treated the House with a quotation from Mr. Burke, he would give him one in return. Speaking of the system of auditing public accounts, he said—"I would as soon think of attacking the prerogative of the crown as the officers of the Treasury, by introducing any rational mode of auditing the public accounts." The whole difficulty arose from the opposition made by the officers of the Treasury to secure their trumpery fees.

entered into a short history of what had been done during the administration of Mr. Pitt, and at a subsequent period, to facilitate the passing of the public accounts. The first act on the subject he introduced under the auspices of Mr. Pitt; but, as the two auditors who were appointed under it had not sufficient power, the 34th of the King was passed, which provided for a detailed examination of accounts. Under that act, a portion of the accounts of the American war, which had not been investigated, was audited; and certain great military characters, who held civil situations in America, were obliged to give up very large sums, which, otherwise, they would have kept in their own pockets. This act had since been amended; and he believed it would be found very difficult to suggest any further improvement. If the hon. gentleman had done so, and his representation had not been attended to, he would have had a reason for complaint, which he could not now adduce. A proper provision was made for the persons in the commissariat department. The commissary-general was allowed 5l. a day, and retired on half-pay; and at the time the increase of salary took place, he told the gentlemen, (as he had sworn afterwards on a trial in the court of King's bench)—"Here is a fair remuneration for you, and if you put one pound beyond it in your pockets, I hope I shall see a halter put about your necks, or witness your punishment in the most exemplary manner," There was no protection afforded to persons who acted fraudulently, as the hon. gentleman insinuated. Wherever a peculator was discovered, he was prosecuted; and where accounts appeared to be of a very intricate nature, auditors were sent out to examine them on the spot. The honourable gentleman must himself know, that the accounts of Mr. Wigglesworth, who had been sent out to St. Domingo, were thus inspected by a relation of his own; auditors had in like manner been sent to different parts of the West Indies, and to the Peninsula. The general reflections of the hon. gentleman were perfectly unfair. If he knew any case that called for severity, let him state it distinctly, and it would be attended to.

acknowledged that Mr. Wigglesworth's accounts were correctly settled; but nine or ten years had elapsed first, and they ought to have been audited in as many days. The accounts of the late sir Brook Watson, than whom a more upright man did not exist, were not audited at the present day. It was this system of procrastination of which he complained. In no country in the world was business of this kind carried on in so slovenly a manner; and it was by submitting to it that plundering and peculation were encouraged.

, after eulogising the exertions of the committee of national expenditure, proceeded to observe, that the auditors of the public accounts were embarrassed by the old forms of the Exchequer. He had represented this inconvenience to his right hon. friend (Mr. Rose), and proposed that the public accounts should be carried on in the same mode that was adopted by the first mercantile houses; but his suggestion was not attended to.

observed, that the old forms of the Exchequer could not embarrass the auditors, since the public accounts passed the Exchequer before they were examined by those gentlemen.

observed, that the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer seemed to take credit to himself for demanding only eight millions. Now, he would ask, supposing, when he went out of the House, he was required to state for what this sum was required, what answer could he give? Was there a man among them, except the right hon. gentleman himself, who could give any more specific reply than that it was to pay the expenses of the army? Would this be satisfactory; or, would not their constituents require to be put a little in possession of the manner in which this enormous sum was to be expended? For his own part, he considered it highly expedient that the increasing expenses of the army should be brought under the view of the House with as little delay as possible, and in such a shape as to admit of a clear and satisfactory explanation. Without this, it was impossible to put bounds to those excessive disbursements which had of late taken place. He held a paper in his hand, upon which he was desirous of putting a question to the right hon. gentleman; he alluded to an additional article in the treaty with Sweden, which purposed to bear date October 22, 1813, now nearly, thirteen months ago, and yet this document had not been put into the possession of parliament till within the last two or three days. He wished to know in what manner the right hon. gentleman could account for this extraordinary delay. And so with regard to another treaty; he alluded to the supplement to the treaty of Chaumont. This bore date the 23rd of June, and although the House sat till the 30th of July, no intimation upon the subject had been given to them: they had never heard a word of it, as if his Majesty's ministers were emulous to postpone giving to the House that information, which, for every reason, it was important they should receive, till the latest possible period. The right hon. gentleman, no doubt, would be able to satisfy the House on these topics. It was with extreme difficulty that he could vote for granting such a sum as eight millions, without knowing any thing of the purposes for which it was intended, beyond the fact that it was for military expenses. He did not mean to cast any reflection upon the right hon. gentleman; indeed, he knew not how he was to cast reflection, when he was in total ignorance of the way in which the disbursements were to be made; neither could he praise the public officers, in as much as he knew not whether they had done well or ill. He would be glad to know what the right hon. gentleman meant by the growing expenses of the military service, of which he had spoken? Did he allude to the military system, as it now existed, or to the war that had gone by? If he meant the military now on foot, the proposition was somewhat intelligible; but if he referred to expenses arising out of past events, there was no forming an idea of their magnitude. There was one other head upon which the right hon. gentleman had touched, which he could not but consider extraordinary: he alluded to the subsidy, in money, now paid to the king of Sicily. The right hon. gentleman had said, that we were bound to pay this money, because Sicily was not/now at peace. This was certainly a novel doctrine. What, then, because the king of Sicily chose to be at war, perhaps with our nearest and dearest allies, we were bound to furnish him with the means of carrying on his schemes! For aught he knew, it was not improbable that, under such circumstances, the king of Sicily would find it advantageous to be always at war; his treasury might be enriched; and taking the prodigality of England into consideration, he might be considered, upon the whole, as having made a good bargain. At present, he was at war with Naples: whether this war was such as was entitled to the protection of the House, however, was a subject upon which they had yet to be informed. There was another part of the Chancellor of the Exchequer's speech which called for explanation. The right hon. gentleman had stated, that of the 75,000 men to be kept on foot by this country, 15,000 were to be paid for by some other state. By whom this expense was to be borne, the House was in perfect ignorance. It was clear, however, that it was not by Hanover; but be it by whom it might, it was to be hoped the expense would not eventually fall on Great Britain. While upon this topic, he could not help expressing a hope that Hanover would give us a little assistance, in return for the assistance which we had occasionally given her. To revert to the expense of these 15,000 men—Holland, perhaps, was to bear the burthen. He hoped such might be the case; for he did not think it good for this country, or for the other powers of Europe, to which we had been in the practice of affording aid, that we should give them too much assistance. It was proper that they should be called upon to do something to assist themselves, and not be led to depend too much upon us. He had now only to hope, that the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer would answer the questions which he had proposed, as in the future debates on this subject, the information he required would be of the utmost importance.

observed, that with regard to the treaties which the right hon. gentleman had represented as being complete novelties in the House, it was chiefly his fault, and not that of ministers, if he had not had earlier information. As to the treaty of Chaumont, the right hon. member might have recollected, that at the close of last session, lord Castlereagh had explained its nature, and stated that its not being ratified was the cause of its not being then laid before the House. On the first day parliament had met this session, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had been called upon by an hon. member near the right hon. gentleman, to give precisely the same explanation he had now produced. He, therefore, did not expect that any doubt would have remained respecting the causes which had prevented the official appearance of that document before the termination of the last session. With respect to the additional article of the treaty with Sweden, its contents had been discussed during the course of the last session; and he thought it had been long in the possession of the House. He was surprised, he acknowledged, at finding, a short time since, that it had not yet been laid on the table. However, as its provisions had been the subject of much public conversation, he was astonished the right hon. gentleman should assert his total ignorance on the subject. There now remained only one topic, on which further explanation was expected from him. It was the part of the subsidy which was still paid to the king of Sicily. It should be recollected, that our engagement with that country was antecedent to all our treaties with the continental sovereigns, and therefore of a different nature. Those which we had concluded with the powers of the north of Europe, had almost all been signed in 1812 and 1813. But the king of Sicily had, at a much earlier period, lost his Neapolitan dominions, and been driven from his continental capital, in consequence of his fidelity to us. It was on this ground that he was taken under British protection, and his second kingdom was guarded by British troops. It was in 1809 that a treaty to that effect was entered into with him, the provisions of which were of course different from our subsequent arrangements with other powers. We then bound ourselves to continue the payment of the subsidy during the whole course of the war subsisting between him and France, as the latter had set up a rival king against him. Sicily was not yet freed from the consequences of such a war. She was no party to the present state of things. She had not acknowledged the legitimacy of the title of the king of Naples. The only power by which it had been as yet fully recognized, was Austria; and the king of Sicily felt himself justly entitled to receive the subsidy, until his claim to the kingdom of Naples had been settled either by indemnity or restoration: then all payment on our part would cease. Had we withdrawn our protection from him at the time we signed the treaty of Paris, how ungenerous would have been our conduct! We should have abandoned him without any security, who had incurred his losses and perils on our account; for what would have prevented the king of Naples from invading Sicily, had its shores no longer been lined with British warriors?

said, he was not in the House at the time when the substance of the supplementary treaty had been communicated in the last session; but the Chancellor of the Exchequer had no reason to be surprised at his want of information, when he himself, as he had confessed, had not known that a treaty of the utmost importance to the country had not been laid before the House.

said, he was not astonished that his right hon. friend (Mr. Ponsonby) should have been ignorant of the contents of a treaty which had not been delivered to the House till within the last few days. In this committee, many topics had been introduced relevant to the original and important subject of discussion; but none of those topics was of more special interest than the statement made by his hon. friend respecting the state of the audits. He would not, however, revert to these subjects; but he thought the right hon. gentleman must acknowledge, that he had left the House in complete ignorance of the arrangement entered into with the king of Naples, eo nomine, whilst we were paying a subsidy to the king of Sicily, who was at war with him. The right hon. gentleman maintained, that it was Austria alone who had entered into a treaty, he should have said, not only of peace, but of alliance with the king of Naples. But he understood, that ministers had been parties to an engagement, by which they bound themselves, in case the king of Sicily should not accept the proffered indemnities for the kingdom of Naples, to leave him to his own resources and his fate. The circumstances in which we were placed, with respect to those two sovereigns, were remarkable; at peace with both of them, and yet paying the one to enable him to support the war which he waged with the other! If these things were concealed here, they were well known on the continent, where our conduct would be seen in its proper light. It should be remembered, that at the time the accession of the king of Naples was obtained, it was considered by every power engaged in the contest, as of the highest importance to the success of the war. Because the service had been performed, it should not be forgotten, nor the king of Naples treated with more indifference than when his alliance was wanted. The right hon. "gentleman said, that the king of Sicily had forfeited his continental dominions in our cause, and that we were therefore bound to protect him and his remaining kingdom. But how had we acquitted ourselves of that duty? How had we 'protected' the royal Sicilian family? He had never been able to develope the mysteries in which the whole of the events which had taken place in Sicily were involved. He could not account for the manner in which the queen of Sicily—(it ought not to pass unnoticed, that ministers no longer added the title of king of Naples to that of king of Sicily)—. had been deposed and exiled, a member of that very family which we had engaged to protect! If the right hon. gentleman was ignorant of these particulars, he regretted that his colleagues should not have communicated them to him. Before this vote was passed, however, which would sanction the continuance of the payment of a subsidy under the strange circumstances of the present, he thought the House should pause. Besides this, there was the maintenance of a British army in Belgium, which ought also to attract considerable attention. He would not now discuss the policy of the measure, but inquire into the probable expense which it would entail upon the country. He had heard, that a survey had been taken of the barrier fortresses of Belgium, and an estimate made of the expense which would be required to place them in a state of defence. He had heard, that this estimate amounted to 14 millions, but certainly not less than ten. He wished to know whether such a survey had really been taken, such an estimate been made; whether there was any intention on the part of ministers to call upon the country to bear a share, or the whole of this expenditure? It was said, that the erection of Hanover into a kingdom, was a matter of total indifference to this country: it might be so, if other circumstances were not attached to that event. It was said to have taken place in consequence of a general call, on the part of the German princes, on the Prince Regent, that he should assume the royal dignity in his father's name. The right hon. gentleman had even treated the House with a tiny joke on the occasion, and he was so unused to this progeny of his brain, that he was busy with it, as a hen with one chicken. He had said that the title of elector had become ridiculous, because there was no one elected. In Germany there might have been a danger of electors without an elected: in this country, by a strange contrast, there were many elected without any electors. The call of the grand dukes and kings of Germany on the Prince Regent, reminded him of the fabled assembly of animals, in which a fox proposed that they should cease wearing tails; and the person of the mover being examined, it was found that his own had been cut off. Thus, because the German sovereigns had degraded themselves by accepting the kingly dignities and titles which Buonaparté had heaped upon them, they now wished to involve the Prince Regent in their own predicament, and reduce him to their own level. But if the erection of Hanover into a kingdom was a matter, of indifference to this country, the same was not the case with regard to the aggrandizement of the Hanoverian territory. The more extensive that kingdom should become, the more likely it was to draw this country, at some future period, into a new continental war. He would be glad to know how the money, which was to be advanced for the support of the 15,000 Hanoverian troops employed, was to be repaid. That was a secret which the right hon. gentleman did not choose to tell. But the right hon. gentleman might keep it to himself, provided he would assure the House that the sum in question would be paid by some continental power. But, if he shrunk from doing that, he should consider every farthing of the money which the House was now called upon to vote on that account, as entirely lost. With regard to an expression used by the right hon. gentleman, that future increased exertions should be made, he feared that ministers really began to feel their necessity: they now acknowledged, for the first time, that the contest with America (and the public were of the same opinion) was likely to plunge the country in frightful expense. We were unfortunately engaged in the war, and as it could not be terminated at once, it must be carried on. But he also thought that they had more than surmises on which to found their apprehensions that the war would grow exceedingly expensive. He thought that they knew facts which justified their fears, and that they had not dealt fairly with the public in withholding their appearance. He believed that they had been for forty hours, or more, in possession of intelligence of a disastrous nature from America, which they had shrunk from communicating to the country. He understood they had received sir George Prevost's account of the unfortunate failure at Plattsburgh, and believed that his subsequent retreat had been very disastrous in several points of view, although little loss might have been suffered in killed and wounded on the part of the enemy. Though on a former occasion he had taken the defence of that officer, and had urged, that no judgment should be formed upon his conduct until sufficient evidence should be produced, it was not his wish to screen him from any blame he might deserve. He therefore called upon the right hon. gentleman to state, why, being in possession of sir George Prevost's official dispatches, he had not laid them before the public? He understood that sir George Prevost had crossed the Canadian frontiers at the head of an army of 12,000 men; that in six days he had arrived at Plattsburgh; and that after his repulse, he had retreated in two days through that very extent of country, which, in his advance, he had not been able to march through in less than six; that although not overtaken or pursued by the enemy, be had lost in this rapid retreat 2,000 men by desertion; that these were not the militia of the country, who might quit the service to return to their homes, but consisted of those brave and tried soldiers, distinguished on account of the honour they had gained under their great commander, by the appellation of 'Wellingtonians'. He understood, that in consequence of these events, the public mind in the Canadas was in an inflamed state; that these disasters, whether justly or not, were attributed to sir George Prevost; and that a general belief prevailed, that it was necessary he should be recalled. Before he agreed to vote the sum wanted to pay so large a proportion of the arrears in the army extraordinaries, he thought he had a right to receive information; and, if it were not voluntarily given, to demand it, on the events of the contest now pending, when, through a most astonishing change in the affairs of the world, the only nation lately neutral was now the only one at war against us. He thought it a right, on so serious an occasion as the present, the solemnity of which had only been impaired by the ill-placed joke which the right hon. gentleman had gone out of his way to impress into his speech, to inquire whether the circumstances which he had stated respecting the arrangement with the king of Naples, and the disasters in America, were correct.

said, the right hon. gentleman seemed to be so well informed upon the proceedings of his Majesty's government, that he was himself the best person to solve the difficulties which he had suggested. Whether the circumstances with respect to the relations between this country and Naples were correctly stated or not, he felt it his duty to abstain from disclosing. As to the dispatches from sir George Prevost, as much would be published from them to-morrow as was consistent with the delicacy due to the situation of the commanding officers.

. Surely, if the accounts stated to have been received by my hon. friend are false, it is easy to say they are false. It cannot be improper to relieve the public anxiety, under such circumstances. To say whether two thousand men have deserted or not, can betray no secret. I will take the liberty of putting a question to the right hon. gentleman. I have been informed within the last few hours, that the army under general Drummond had been obliged to abandon the siege of Fort Erie with disgrace, and the most disastrous loss: is this the case, or is it not?

said, he had no knowledge of any desertion on the part of our men. Had such a fact been true, it would no doubt have been stated in sir George Prevost's dispatches, which did not mention it. As to the retreat of genera! Drummond from before Fort Erie, he believed that was a fact; but it had been attended neither with loss nor with disgrace on our side.

stated, that some of the accounts of the disaster on Lake Champlain had been received. They differed in some particulars from those which had already appeared: but as the whole had not arrived, it would be improper to publish a partial statement. All that should be given, therefore, in the Gazette to-morrow, would be a list of killed and wounded, as far as they were known.

The Resolution then was put, and agreed to. The House resumed, and the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow.