was aware how ungracious the attempt was to press upon his majesty's ministers any question connected with the reduction of the national burthens, after what had lately passed in parliament. He still could not refrain from pointing out one tax which greatly affected the agricultural interest, from the inequality of its operation—he meant the agricultural horse tax, which bore on the poor cultivator of arable land, but not on the farmer of pasture soil, nor indeed on the tithe owner. This he conceived a grievance, which could be remedied without a reduction of the general produce of the tax. To effect this amelioration, there were two ways. One was, the exemption of certain farms—suppose the exemption of farms under 150l. a-year—from the operation of the tax; or else let it fall on such occupiers in a diminished ratio. Another remedy would be, that all pasture land should be taxed in its proportion, whether horses were worked or not. Again, he thought some improvement might be made in the road acts, which imposed a local taxation, to keep the mail coach roads in order: it would perhaps be politic to exempt from the tax, according to the present system, such districts as were liable to this expense, or else to get rid of the road tax altogether. The hon. member hoped that a general reduction of public expenditure would accompany the present system. The splendour of the throne could be properly maintained in a country like this, without any countenance being given to the introduction of foreign frivolities. He would take this opportunity of lamenting that the boon which the chancellor of the exchequer intended to bestow upon the agricultural interest of England, was not extended to the principality of Wales—a part of the empire which ought to have been indulged with a participation in the minister's plan. The tenants in Scotland only paid a land-tax of two-pence in the pound, while those of England and Wales paid four-pence; this obvious inequality of burthen was attempted to be defended on the principle, that though the Scotch tenantry paid neither tithes nor poor-rates, their rent was raised in proportion. But this, he believed, was not the fact, and he hoped the Welsh representatives would adopt the example set by other gentlemen in that House, and assert the interest of their constituents. When Mr. Burke, on a memorable occassion, flung down a dagger in that House, to illustrate the enthusiasm of his hostility to French principles, he created an extraordinary feeling. When lord Lisburne produced the wooden shoes worn by the Scotch peasantry, and the miserable sheafs of corn which their soil produced, he effected a mitigation of the land-tax then in progress towards them. Now, if he (Mr. Jones) had prepared himself with the materials, he could have equally exhibited to the House demonstrative proofs that the Welsh peasant had his wooden shoes and impoverished grain to plead for his exemption. The people of Wales had also a claim, as having borne their share, at least, of the public pressure—their peasantry had contributed to the military strength of the empire, and at a critical moment had rushed forth to defend themselves from foreign invasion.

begged leave to withdraw the consideration of the Ordnance Estimates for another week, with a view to make some reductions in the civil department of that branch of the public service.

expressed his satisfaction, that the ordnance estimates were withdrawn with a view to their reduction. He was glad to find that government had had the benefit of the voice of that House and the country, before they came to an ultimate decision upon their measures. He hoped, however, that when the estimates were brought again before the House, the reduction in them would not be confined to the civil departments, but extended to the other parts of that division of the public expenditure; not only in its details, but in some of the higher items of the accounts.

here intimated, in point of order, that this was not the moment to call for explanation.

did not mean to enter upon any debate, or indeed to provoke a discussion at the present moment, contrary to the usage of the House; he merely rose to express his great satisfaction at tri communication that had just been made, because it seemed to emanate from a true consideration of the tone maintained by that House and the country.

rose to order, and stated that he would not submit to insinuations of this kind; he had merely withdrawn the notice of a motion which stood for that night, and he appealed to the chair, whether, under such circumstances, a premature debate ought to be allowed.

said, that, having been appealed to, it became necessary for him to state, that a conversation on the withdrawal of a notice of this kind was irregular, inasmuch as it tended to promote an informal debate.

said, he wished to relieve any anxiety which might be felt on the subject of the Malt Duties in Ireland, and stated his intention to extend the same relief to the agricultural interests of that country which had been given to Great Britain by the repeal of the war duty. The duty would then stand at the same rate as the English, and an allowance would be made to the malsters for stock on hand. He had already given assurances to that effect to the maltsters of Waterford; and it was in fact only equitable, that the allowance should be made. The distillers would be entitled also to a proportionate repayment.

asked, whether any other allowances would be made?

said, that the brewers in Ireland being subject to no direct tax, it would be difficult, and indeed impossible, to take the account of their stock. Nor was it reasonable; they had no claim, as when the duties had been raised no charge had been laid on the stock in their hands.

expressed himself satisfied.

rose to move the postponement of the farther consideration of the remaining Army Estimates. Meanwhile, he should lay a written paper on the table, which might be printed by Monday, showing the number and extent of the reductions intended to be made, as it might be more convenient for gentlemen to have this account in their hands, than to wait for it.

wished the noble lord would state, whether what he had to propose were new reductions, or merely the reductions that had already been explained to the House.

said, he hoped there would be some new reductions. The estimates had been drawn up in January last, and since that time some further reductions had been made. These he should state, specifying the date at which they had taken place.

hoped also, that the House would have some opportunity of reconsidering the number of men which had been voted. As he could hardly expect that the ministers of their own accord would perform such a service to the country, he hoped some member on that side of the House would make a motion on the subject, because the only reductions which could be of any real value were in the military establishments. By a strict revision of these estimates, much might be done towards the reduction of the taxation. As the ministers had been compelled to change their opinions on so many subjects, there were some hopes the country might be successful in this most important point.

said, he had stated that there had been a great reduction in the staff. He should be able to state a still further reduction, which he had not been able to state on the former occasion.

wished to know, whether there was on the table any account of the number of soldiers discharged since the peace? An account had been presented of the number of second battalions reduced, but many of the men who composed them had been transferred to the first battalions. The account which he described was not, he believed, before the House.

rose to observe, that he had been lately rather prematurely called to order by an hon. gentleman opposite, as if his intention had been to record a dissent from the then proceeding of the hon. gentleman, while, in fact, his intention was to express a most sincere satisfaction that ministers had, at length, taken the sense of the House and the country upon some of their measures, and had shown symptoms of abiding by the wise result of their appeal. He wished that the questions relative to the peace establishments should rest with his majesty's government rather than be in the hands of others, because their official information gave them a better opportunity of forming a correct judgment on the details. He repeated the expression of his satisfaction, that government seemed, at length, to pay a proper obedience to the feelings of the country.

wished to know whether the whole of the estimates would be again brought under the consideration of the House, or merely the two items which had not been voted.

answered, that only the two remaining items would be brought before the House.

wished to know, whether any regulation had been made to put a stop to the enlisting of boys?

said, that a regulation had been made, by which no one was enlisted under five feet four inches.

said, he had heard that this regulation did not extend to the soldiers enlisted for India.

said, the reason of this was, that some time elapsed between en- listing the soldiers and sending them out to India, and they were some months on their passage; so that in all it was fourteen months before they reached that country. Allowance was made for this time in determining the age of the persons enlisted.

inquired from the hon. baronet opposite, whether the Navy Estimates were to be introduced for discussion on Monday next.

was unprepared with any reason why they should not be introduced at that time.

But will they positively be then introduced?

replied, that only one notice stood for Monday, and unless the gentlemen opposite protracted the discussion upon that, he saw no reason why the navy estimates should not then be considered.

, observing that it wag intended to make some reduction in the army estimates, especially under the head of guards and garrisons, and also in the ordnance estimates, expressed a wish to know whether it was proposed to make any farther reduction of the naval expenditure than appeared in the estimates on the table, or whether it was in contemplation to alter those estimates in any respect, he meant particularly with regard to the civil offices of the navy, and whether such alteration, if any, would be proposed on Monday next?

stated, that it was undoubtedly intended to make every practicable reduction in the expenditure of the naval department, but the reduction desired could not be consistently made at once. For it was to be recollected, that the House had already voted 33,000 men for the service of the navy, and therefore we were not yet arrived at the peace establishment. He had, however, to state with respect to the civil department of the navy, that he did not intend to move that the salaries of the two secretaries of the admiralty should be voted upon the war establishment [Hear, hear!]. At the same time, he could not say that any other reduction was at present intended in the naval department. But he had the satisfaction to calculate that considerable reduction would take place in this department probably towards the close of the current year, although it was not thought proper to make any farther alteration in the estimates.

asked, whether it was intended to make any reduction of expense in the office of the paymaster of marines?

replied, that it was proposed to continue the office alluded to on its present establishment.

congratulated the House upon the satisfaction which must be felt not only by the House itself, but by the country at large, at the intelligence which had been just communicated by the hon. baronet respecting the salaries of the two secretaries.

wished to know whether any arrangement had been made on a subject of very great importance, he meant for the establishment of a better Circulation of Silver? In the last session, the chancellor of the exchequer had stated, that it was in contemplation to issue bank tokens of a smaller denomination than 18d. but he had heard nothing more on that subject. It was well known that there was nothing like a tower shilling in the country, but that the circulation was made up of Birmingham counterfeits, which swelled the criminal calendar; or by old 12 and 24 sous pieces imported from France. When the temptation to import these pieces, which in France passed only for 10 and 20 sous, was so great (the profit being 20 per cent.) it would be perceived that the introduction of them was not less mischievous than the counterfeit coining. It was stated by the late lord Liverpool that the price of silver was never so high but that the country might have a good coinage; but now the price of silver was not much above the mint price. He thought, therefore, a new coinage might take place without danger, but if not, at least some temporary measure should be adopted to remedy the evil.

said, the proper time for a general renovation of the standard silver currency, would be when the gold currency was also restored. The present was not the time for such a measure, but he agreed that some temporary remedy should be applied to the evil complained of, which he admitted was great.

suggested the propriety of some regulation for the safe conveyance of the paper currency. Robberies of bank-notes had taken place to a great extent, and the mischief had been increased, as he understood, by a composition with the felons for the purpose of recovering the property.

expressed a hope that no temporary remedy would be applied to the evils flowing from the debased state of our circulation, but that the country would be brought back to that wholesole system under which paper was at all times exchangeable for some legal coin in the precious metals, either the old standard guinea, or some new standard. The old standard could not be established without injustice to those who had borrowed money in a depreciated currency, neither indeed could any new standard be adopted with perfect justice to all parties. Yet the sooner the present system was put an end to the better; for the evil would go on increasing if we continued to live under it, flattering ourselves with the hope of an event which would never come to pass.

asked, whether a council would soon be convened to take into consideration the Recorder's Report, with respect to the fate of the several convicts in Newgate under sentence?

replied, that he had the satisfaction to state, that it was expected the Prince Regent would be able to come to town within a few days, and that the case alluded to by the hon. gentleman would be immediately taken into consideration. At the same time he thought it necessary to mention, that no application whatever had been made to the Regent by, or on behalf of, any individual, whose suspense was complained of, and that his royal highness had had no personal knowledge of the case [Hear, hear!], until apprized of what had taken place in that House. It was also proper to observe, that as it was the province of the recorder to report all the cases of conviction which took place in London and Middlesex, whether tried by himself or by any other judge, a considerable time usually elapsed before such report could be made, because it became necessary for that magistrate to collect and examine the evidence on each case, as well as to inquire into the character of the prisoners. Therefore the allegation of any unusual delay could only apply to the sessions before the last, and this delay was attributable solely to the melancholy indisposition of the Regent. It was doubted by the magistrate to whom ho had already alluded, whether any execution could be ordered in London or Middlesex, in which the court usually resided, without the express sanction of the sovereign, or that of the person exercising the powers of sovereignty; and in consequence of this difficulty, the case of the prisoners alluded to, necessarily stood over—the malady of the Regent, which consisted of several severe attacks of the gout, rendering his royal highness unable to come to town, while ministers were frequently encouraged to hope for the removal of the disease, and that his royal highness would be enabled to attend to the exercise of his functions in London. The noble lord repeated that the first intimation which the Regent received of the case referred to, was from the mention of it in that House, and that the delay complained of arose out of the doubts entertained by his royal highness's servants, as to what course ought to be pursued under such circumstances. These doubts would, however, soon be removed, as his royal highness's return to town was expected within a few days, and upon that event the case alluded to would be immediately taken into consideration.

said, he felt that upon this, as upon all other cases connected with the administration of the government, the ministers of the Crown were alone to be deemed responsible. But this was not the first time the difficulty alluded to was known to exist, and therefore some measures ought to be taken to decide the question. There was undoubtedly, according to immemorial custom, a difference in the case between Middlesex and the other counties. But it was held that no execution could legally take place in any county in which the sovereign resided, without being brought under the consideration of his majesty. Hence it would be recollected, that when the King was some years since at Weymouth, it was doubted whether any execution could take place, without his majesty's express sanction; and upon the same ground it might be doubted, whether while the Regent resided at Brighton any execution could take place in the county of Sussex without being submitted to the consideration of his Royal Highness. Under these circumstances, he thought it would become ministers to have such a difficulty taken into consideration, and some provision made to decide the question.

deplored the unfor- tunate delay to which the conversation referred. For the suspence complained of, with respect to those prisoners, must be a source of uneasiness to every man of consideration. But it was his intention to have offered himself to the notice of the House, if it were not for the explanation of his noble friend, for he was persuaded that no man of feeling could be more disturbed by the infliction of pain than the illustrious person at present exercising the functions of sovereignty. He could, indeed, assure the House, that this illustrious person felt a peculiar repugnance to that part of his duty which referred to the sanction of any execution. That in truth his Royal Highness never sanctioned such a sentence without the most poignant regret [Hear, hear!]. But as to the difficulty which related to the case under consideration, he agreed with his learned friend who had just sat down, that it ought to be investigated, with a view to prevent its recurrence. For no one could answer for the state of his health, and therefore the health of no individual should be allowed to interfere with the necessary administration of public justice. The hon. gentleman concluded with expressing his satisfaction to find, that although in this as in all other acts of the government, the ministers alone were responsible, the Regent was not aware of or at all implicated in the case immediately referred to.

declared, that he felt peculiarly satisfied by the explanation of the noble lord. For although he was always ready to admit the responsibility of ministers for every act or omission of the government, he would yet express his satisfaction that, in this instance blame was attributable to them alone. That ministers alone were responsible for the conduct of the government was his constitutional opinion—this he said upon reflection and advisedly [Hear, hear!]. But yet in making this statement he felt it necessary to observe, that this wholesome constitutional principle was first departed from by the other side of the House. For instance, the noble lord opposite (Castlereagh) had taken occasion, in more instances than one, to introduce into the debates of that House the personal merits of the Prince exercising the powers of sovereignty, for the purpose of panegyrizing his Royal Highness, to whom alone, according to the noble lord's allegation, any merit due to the conduct of government was exclusively attributable. Again, a learned serjeant (Best) on the other side, thought proper, last session, to give notice of a distinct motion for an address of thanks to his royal highness the Prince Regent for the execution of his official duties. Thus members on the other side of the House departed from the usual constitutional practice by fixing the attention of parliament, not upon the conduct of ministers, but upon the personal administration of the Prince. Yet those gentlemen affected to feel offended at any allusion to that personal administration which was not quite in accordance with the strain of praise which they thought it expedient to employ when using language inconsistent with the spirit of the constitution and the practice of parliament.

said, he was extremely glad, from what he had just heard, that parliament was not likely again to be placed in painful situations. He was happy to think the House was not again to be pained as it had been the other night. He declared that he took blame to himself for not calling that hon. and learned gentleman to order, when on a former night he thought proper to employ the most abominable and unjustifiable language [Hear, hear!]. It was undoubtedly true that ministers were constitutionally responsible for any faults in the conduct of the government, but it was no less true that the sovereign alone was constitutionally entitled to the praise of any merit which belonged to that conduct. If, therefore, the hon. and learned gentleman intended what he had just said as an amende honorable, he could not but think that he had read his recantation by halves.

said, that so far from making any recantation, he was ready to repeat the words alluded to, if their repetition would afford the noble lord any satisfaction. So far from being disposed to recant, he was prepared to maintain, as he had already stated, that the language used by the noble lord and others, afforded the fullest justification for his conduct.

expressed his decided disapprobation of the conduct of the hon. and learned gentleman, and was proceeding to animadvert upon the language of that hon. and learned gentleman on a former evening, when he was called to order by

, who contended that it was irregular to refer to words spoken in a former debate, and that his hon. and learned friend had made no recantation. But he deprecated the reference the more, as the right hon. gentleman was animadverting upon expressions used in the heat of discussion, in a strain rather more likely to exasperate than to allay animosity.

rose to order, conceiving it irregular in any member to indulge in comments when he called another member to order.

appealed to the chair to decide the question of order [A loud cry of Chair, chair!].

said, that when thus applied to on all sides of the House, as to the point of order, he had no hesitation in stating that this conversation ought to go no farther.

moved, "That there be laid before this House, an account of the number of Extents in Chief against all debtors of the Crown, except such as shall appear to have been only parochial collectors of the King's taxes, which have been issued from the exchequer in each year, from the 1st of January 1801 to the 31st of December 1812, inclusive, and of the number of extents in aid issued in each year during the same period." He also moved for an account of all extents in aid issued each year since 1812, speeding against whom each extent was issued, the amount for which it was issued, and the branch of revenue or other source on which it became due; also those that were issued at the instance of the parties themselves.

said, that such an account would very unnecessarily bring before the House and the public the names and circumstances of those unfortunate individuals, against whom those extents had been issued. There were also many instances in which extents were issued for Crown debts, and never proceeded on. He would have no objection to the motion if it was so framed as not to expose the names and circumstances of individuals.

said, that he was anxious to obtain certain information, without giving much trouble; but this he could not effect, unless the names of the parties were communicated. He wished to know the number of extents issued, and particularly those which were issued at the in- stance of the parties themselves. If any means could be devised for acquiring this without producing the names, he would readily accede to it.

After a few words from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the motion was withdrawn.