observed, that he had received several letters from persons concerned in the leather trade at Bristol, stating, that in consequence of a rumour that it was the intention of the chancellor of the exchequer to propose the repeal of the leather tax, the leather trade was at a stand; and therefore he thought it necessary to ask the right hon. gentleman, whether this rumour had any foundation?

replied, that he had no difficulty in stating, for the information of his hon. friend and others, that his Majesty's government had no such intention as that alluded to; for upon the best consideration it was felt, that whether the leather tax was injurious or not at the time it was imposed, it could not now be repealed without great inconvenience.

moved, "That there be laid before this House, the name and salary of each of the commissioners of the Lottery, and the name and salary of each of the secretaries and clerks, and of every other person in town and country employed under the government in conducting the business of the lottery in the years 1814 and 1815."

had no objection to the motion. He said, he was not aware that government employed any persons in the country upon the business of the lottery, whatever the contractors might do.

observed, that commissioners calling themselves government agents connected with the lottery were spread all over the country. This he knew to be the case, and that such commissioners or agents were in the habit at times of attending in London for only a few days during the drawing of the lottery. This indeed he had himself heard from an attorney near Hull, who described himself as a commissioner of the lottery, and who said that he only attended in London a few days in each year, observing that they (the commissioners) alternately relieved each other. This being the fact, he required to know the names of all those commissioners and agents, together with their salaries.

took that opportunity of expressing his decided objection to the principle of raising money by lottery. An hon. friend of his, now no more (Mr. Whitbread), whose solicitude for every principle connected with public and private morality was proverbial, had expressed a hope, that however the country might endure such a system of raising money during war, it would not be tolerated upon the return of peace. That peace being now concluded, he should feel it his duty to resist the continuance of that system; for he never could be reconciled, merely for the purpose of obtaining 200,000l. a year, to tolerate a measure so injurious to the morals of the country.

cordially concurred in the views of his hon. friend; for after ample inquiry upon the subject (and he could assure the House that he had taken considerable pains to ascertain facts), he felt the fullest conviction, that no pecuniary consideration should reconcile parliament to the existence of a measure so peculiarly calculated, as the system of the lottery in all its branches was, to debauch the morals and corrupt the character of the country—to spread mischief and misery through every town, village, and hamlet. He knew the baneful effects of this abominable system, and he hoped that the benevolence and wisdom of parliament would soon put an end to its existence.

said, that many years ago he felt it his duty to bring this subject before the House, and he remembered that the lottery bill would have been lost, if it were not for the commencement of the war. Having been chairman of a committee appointed to inquire into the effects of the lottery, he could testify to its baneful operation; and to that report he would refer those who entertained doubts upon the subject. Upon examining that report, he was convinced that every man of feeling and consideration would concur with him as to the propriety of abolishing lotteries. Indeed, when Mr. Pitt concluded for the lottery after this report was presented, he recommended the commissioners to consult him (Mr. T.) as to the means of remedying the evils described in that report. He felt it however impossible to devise any effectual remedy; but he suggested that if the lottery were drawn within two or three days, the evil might be somewhat reduced. That suggestion was attended to, but the main evil still remained, and would remain, while the system of lotteries was allowed to exist. But as to the motion before the House, he thought it just to remark, that the salary allowed to any commissioner or other agent employed by government on the business of the lottery, was too trifling to induce such officer to reside in town. Neither could he think it necessary to inforce such residence; nor could he, with all his solicitude for economy, approve of the abolition of any of those offices, without granting some compensation to the officers.

The motion was agreed to.

, after adverting to the feelings expressed on both sides of the House with respect to the illustrious personage to whom his motion referred, and the unanimity with which a liberal provision for that prince was acceded to, moved, "That leave be given to bring in a bill for the Naturalization of his serene highness Leopold George Frederick, duke of Saxe, margrave of Meissen, landgrave of Thuringuen, prince of Cobourg of Saalfeld, and settling his precedency."

The bill was then brought in; and, being read a first and second time, went through a committee of the whole House. The report was brought up and agreed to: the bill was read a third time and passed, and ordered to be carried to the lords by the chancellor of the exchequer and other members.

presented a petition of considerable length from the president, vice-presidents, and members of the Wiltshire agricultural society and other land-owners, complaining of Agricultural Distresses and of foreign importations of corn. They stated, that if ever there was a time which called for public economy, it was the present. Mr. Methuen said he felt much satisfaction in presenting this petition from so highly respectable a body, and which was not couched in wanton or presumptuous language. The gentry and yeomanry who had signed it had distinguished them- selves by their loyalty and patriotism, and were among those who had supported their country earnestly, while all other nations in Europe were suffering the calamities of the war.

added his testimony to the great respectability of the petitioners. He wished to call the attention of the vice-president of the board of trade, who, he understood, intended to bring in a bill respecting the duties upon butter. The interests of the petitioners were much connected with the making of cheese. The interests of butter and cheese had hitherto been always considered together, and he saw no reason for separating them now.

said, that as they were about to go into a committee on the general interests of agriculture, he did not see the necessity of entering into the subject on the receiving of a petition; but he meant, to show no inattention or indifference to the matter of the petition.

presented a petition from the county of Brecon which was signed by almost all the resident gentry of that county. The petitioners complained of the great distress which they laboured under from the unexampled depression in the price of agricultural produce They prayed also against the clause in the corn act, which permitted the warehousing of foreign corn, free of duty; they earnestly recommended to parliament the absolute necessity of the strictest economy in every department of the state, and of the abolition of all sinecure and useless offices. They also prayed, that if it should be necessary to raise a loan of eight millions, the interest of it might be borrowed from the sinking fund, and no new taxes be imposed.

said, there was a subject mentioned in that petition, upon which he should take the liberty of asking a question from the right hon. gentleman opposite. He alluded to the sinking fund: and the question he wished to ask was, whether, in the event of having recourse to a loan, ministers were prepared to avail themselves of the clause in the 26th of the King, commonly called Mr. Fox's clause, and raise the money that might be wanting through the medium of the commissioners for the reduction of the national debt, instead of going into the money market? Unless that course was adopted, he should feel it his duty to submit a proposition to the House, for the purpose of showing the great advantage which the country would receive from that clause being acted upon.

observed, that the repeated discussions which had taken place in that House upon the different petitions presented against the property tax, was, he firmly believed, one of the principal causes of its ultimate rejection. He hoped, therefore, that the same discussion and the same attention would take place with regard to the petitions, which were now so thickly and so numerously pouring upon them, praying for retrenchment and economy. A great deal had been said in that House about economy, but very little had yet been done; and he thought they would ill discharge their duty to their constituents, if they neglected their earnest and repeated prayers upon the subject.

presented a petition from the county of Norfolk, complaining of the agricultural distresses of the country. It stated likewise, that the petitioners saw no necessity for maintaining so large a military force in time of peace, or why the most extensive reduction should not now be practised. They complained also of the never ending excesses of the civil list, and stated that the old English constitution and a standing army could never subsist together.

The petitions were ordered to lie on the table.

moved the order of the day for going into a committee of the whole House on the Distressed State of Agriculture.

said he had no intention of opposing the Speaker's leaving the chair, but he thought it might be convenient if the hon. member would state, before going into the committee, what course he meant to pursue with respect to the resolutions which had been printed. He was anxious to ascertain what ulterior proceedings he intended to propose.

observed, that the mode of procedure would be best settled in the committee, though at the same time he could have no objection to state his general views upon the subject. His own opinion was, that in the first instance they should proceed upon a general inquiry into the question, by which means they would extract from the different county members and others who represented the landed interest, those representations which would enable them to judge of the true extent of the distresses. The House would then be better able to judge what remedies might be necessary, and each of the resolutions could afterwards be considered separately.

said, his reason for asking the question was, because a considerable degree of alarm existed throughout the country, upon the supposition that parliament were about to adopt certain resolutions, upon which a bill might afterwards be brought in, and that bill being of the nature of a tax bill, it was thought they could not petition against it.

observed, that he thought the mode proposed by the hon. member, was the one most convenient for bringing the subject fully and distinctly under the consideration of the House. The hon. member could move his first resolution either with, or without a prefatory speech, as he might think best, and thus the whole question would be open for deliberation. After that general examination had been gone through they would then dispose of the resolutions separately.

The House having accordingly resolved itself into the committee,

said, he ought to apologize to the committee for taking precedency of the hon. member below him, in offering himself to their attention; but if he did not do so, he felt that he should neglect his duty to his constituents. He alluded to the case of the petition from Worcestershire, which had been presented the preceding day, by his noble colleague (lord Elmley), at a time when the House contained scarcely any members, and when not one of his majesty's ministers was present. He was far from imputing the circumstance to any disposition on the part of the noble lord, whom he did not then see in his place, to deprive his constituents of the benefit of obtaining for their petition a proper hearing; but the practical effect certainly was, to deprive them of that benefit. He should therefore feel it his duty to move that the petition from the county of Worcester be again read.—The petition was accordingly read. It complained of the difficulty which the petitioners found to pay their taxes, in consequence of the depreciation in the value of agricultural property, and of the injury done to the home grower, by the importation of foreign corn; it prayed also for the most rigid economy in the public expenditure, and complained of the lavish waste of money in the erection of public works, under the idea of adding splendour to the realm; an expense which, though it might be proper in a time of affluence, was most seriously to be deprecated in a time of great distress; it complained likewise of a large standing army, the existence of sinecure offices, and the perpetual excesses in the civil list.—The petition being read,

rose, and observed, that having already stated the course of proceeding which he thought it would be right to adopt, and having, on a former occasion, entered at much length into the general subject; he should not now have occasion to occupy any great portion of their attention. Their first consideration would be directed to the whole extent of the difficulties and distresses under which the agriculture of the country laboured; a degree of distress and difficulty, which he indeed felt to be excessive, and unparalleled. He had endeavoured to prove that fact on a former occasion, and he was persuaded, that no diminution of the distress had since taken place. He, for one, could not help entertaining a very gloomy view of the prospect that was before us, and believing it to be thus gloomy, he did not think there was any policy in withholding any communications which could place it fully before parliament. What indeed, must be the situation of a country like this, when the land paid no rent, when the wages of labour were not equal to the sustenance of the labourer, and when the profits of agricultural stock were turned into losses? Such, however, was the actual situation of the country, and which in addition, was burthened with a heavy national debt, and an enormous taxation to support establishments of unprecedented magnitude. Was it possible, that any one could view that situation without feeling something like despondency? He would not say, that he absolutely despaired, because he thought the energies and resources of the country, were still sufficient to extricate it from its difficulties if properly applied. They all knew that the rent of land, the wages of labour, and the profits of stock, were the only sources from which the revenue of a country was derived; and what therefore, had they to look forward to? He earnestly called upon the House to consider with due deliberation, the real state to which we were reduced; and having ascertained it, it would then be for the wisdom of parliament to consider what remedy should be applied, in order to restore us to our former prosperity, and enable us to maintain our present greatness. What were the real causes of our distress? They were to be found in the peculiar difficulties which pervaded the agricultural interests of the country within the last two years, and which consequently extended to every other class of society. According to his view of the subject, those difficulties originated, in the first instance, from a fall in the real value of the products of land, and an accumulated surplus of those products beyond the demand for them. The committee were fully aware, that a very small surplus beyond the demand had an inevitable tendency to diminish the value of that surplus, in the same manner as a small deficit below the demand increased the value. They had shown, as a principal cause, the fall in the real value of all the products of the land, and to that was superadded a fail in the nominal value of land. In this country there was a most extensive circulating medium, and a most abundant credit currency, founded upon those products of the land; but the latter having diminished to half their value, the credit currency had, in fact, wholly vanished. The consequence was, that the relative value of the property of individuals had been completely altered: the property belonging to the holders of land was transferred to the holders of money, from those, in fact, who paid taxes to those who received them. Such was our peculiar situation at this moment. There was a time, however, when all the agricultural classes were flourishing: there was an increasing demand for all the products of land: there was an increasing abundance of our circulating medium, whether composed of paper of the bank of England, of the notes of country banks, or of promissory notes. The country went on under that operation; but as the increase of produce rendered the circulating medium of less value, the agriculturists were paid in a currency of less value. He should follow up this view of the subject by stating, that the original cause of the present distress was, a fall in the real value of the produce of land. That fall had been occasioned by a supply beyond the demand. The House should endeavour, therefore, to furnish the agriculturists with every means of taking off the surplus. It might, perhaps, be practica- ble to export a considerable quantity; but if they prevented an importation of foreign corn, a very material relief would be afforded.—He would not detain the committee by going further into the subject at that moment, as he hoped, when they came to a vote, they would consider each resolution separately. At present he should abstain from troubling them on any one specific resolution. Since he submitted his propositions to the House, ministers had taken off the war duty on malt; but he did not think they had gone far enough. They should also remove the duties on spirits. He would not venture to urge this measure, if he thought the revenue would derive any benefit from continuing those duties: but, in his opinion, the consumption would be greatly increased. During the two or three last years, when the price of corn was double what it was at this moment, the aggregate amount of duties in Scotland was 740,000l. In the last year, when barley was sold at 20s. and the duty was raised from 5s. to 8s., the amount was only 712,000l. instead of 740,000l. He was sure the right hon. gentleman could not say that the same amount of duties could be sustained during peace as during war. The practice of bonding spirits would add considerably to the revenue, and the spirits would be better for being kept. Under a firm conviction that this relief could be applied to the agriculturists, without the smallest injury to the revenue, he should sit down with proposing the first resolution, namely, "that the portion of the community, whose capitals are engaged in agriculture, as well as those numerous classes whose employment depends thereon, are at present under the pressure of unexampled distress."

suggested the propriety of the hon. member submitting a practical resolution to the consideration of the committee. The appointment of the committee was in itself a sufficient proof that gentlemen were aware of the distress under which the country was labouring, and he therefore thought the hon. member would better attain his object by submitting the consideration of a remedy to the distress, rather than the distress itself.

, in consequence of the remark of the noble lord, moved his fourth, fifth, and sixth resolutions: viz. "That the demand for barley has been very materially reduced, by the excessive duties to which it is subjected, in the cause of the various operations which adapt it to the use of the consumer:—that the continuance of those duties, during peace, when the facility of smuggling is so much increased, cannot fail to injure the home manufacture of spirits, which must still further diminish the demand for barley:—that it is therefore necessary to reduce the duties on malt, beer, and spirits."

, in rising at this early period of the discussion, would only offer a general opinion. Of the distress of the country he believed no man could entertain a serious doubt, and he therefore regretted that his majesty's ministers seemed not to have been in possession of its alarming extent. To a well constituted and generous mind no species of distress had more legitimate claims of relief than that of the lower orders in society, from whose scanty portion of comfort no privation, however trifling, could be made without loading them with woe. In the higher walks of life, men were better able to devise means for alleviating or warding off the ills which occasionally might light on them, but to the poor there was no alternative. Many of those now present would recollect the views he had formed last year, of the state of the country, and his predictions of what would be the issue. He had assured the House, that a period would come when the occupation of land would be suspended, and that unless proper and adequate relief was soon applied, the House might have reason to repent of its supineness when relief was no longer applicable. He regretted to say, that in the mournful experience of many, too many in the country, the first of these predictions had been unhappily verified. The calamities which the agriculturists in many parts of the country were enduring, the miseries under which that class were groaning, presented a picture of wretchedness which might rend the most callous heart. There was not an individual, he was persuaded, who heard him, who would not be melted at the simple recital even of a small part of those miseries. Within these few days he had received a letter from a respectable magistrate, a friend of his residing in the county of Cambridge (not in that part of the county where, from the unfavourable state of the soil, the inhabitants might be supposed to feel more pressure, but in the fertile district of the county) and it contained a statement of distress which must shock every feeling mind. "You will not be much surprised," said his friend, "after what I mentioned on a former occasion, to hear the distresses of those who are engaged in agricultural pursuits in this neighbourhood. Only 8d. a day is given to strong, healthy, single men, who are capable of the greatest labour." [Hear, hear!]. He was aware such a melancholy view of the country would be new to some, and might perhaps startle them; but instances of similar poignant distress had occurred before he left the county which he had the honour to represent, one of which he would now state. That county had, in the days of Camden, been called the garden of England; but he implored the committee to mark the striking contrast. A farmer, who was the last occupier of land in a parish of that county, and on whom, of course, the payment of poor-rates had devolved, came to him, imploring in the most earnest manner to inform him what he should do, as he was unable to bear the burthens laid on him. Being asked what had become of the other occupiers of land in the parish, seeing he was left alone, "Sir," said the farmer, "worn out by the wretchedness of the times, they are not able to touch the land." The landholders to a man refused to plough the land, and this farmer was to leave his farm at Lady Day [Hear!]. Where then had the poor any right to apply when there were none in their own parish to pay the rates? Undoubtedly they must go to the neighbouring parishes. Nor was this a solitary instance of the miserable state of the country; he was ready, to furnish gentlemen with many of a similar nature, should it be deemed necessary. The poor in many cases had abandoned their own residences. Whole parishes had been deserted, and the crowd of paupers increasing in numbers as they went from parish to parish, spread wider and wider this awful desolation. To evils of so alarming a nature, the committee were imperiously called to provide some remedy. The poor laws authorizing the paupers thus to go at large, would evidently bring the country to ruin, in a degree totally incapable of relief. He would not appeal to the feelings of the committee for remedying these evils, but he would call on them to do so as an act of justice—as a duty they were indispensably bound to fulfil. But the remedy could only be properly applied when there was a satisfactory knowledge of what was the cause of the disease. Without any great learning, or without much recourse to the various treatises on political economy, the cause might be defined to be, the inadequacy of the present price of grain, to the high rents of the land. And he wished it to be distinctly understood, that when he spoke of occupiers of land, he meant proprietors of land, and who at the same time held that land in their own hand. A calculation of the loss of capital had been made, amounting to 100,000,000l., and though this sum might perhaps be exaggerated, no man could doubt the immense loss sustained in labour, &c. which the country could not but feel in a very great degree. It was a public national loss which had been sustained, but at present he would decline entering into the consideration of it in this view. The point particularly now to be discussed was, how is the country to be relieved? His hon. friend had proposed a series of very good resolutions, which he would consider as embracing two general points, first, the mode of relieving the country of the charges on land, and secondly, the mode of relieving it by raising the price of grain. Of the charges on land, he considered tythes to be of the first importance. To enter into any discussion of that interesting subject, would at present occupy too much time, and indeed would be a laborious task. He had, however, no hesitation in saying, it was productive of more moral and practical mischief than any other charge exacted on land, and he was certainly very desirous to see it abolished. In support of his opinion on this head, he would adduce one authority of very high importance, which he had no doubt his majesty's ministers would pay some attention to. The late Mr. Pitt, had proposed a plan to free the land from the vexatious process of tythes by commutation, which he meant to have classed with his plan for the redemption of the land tax, but the proposal was dropt for a more convenient season. If such a name had any weight with ministers, if they believed the distress was so very general as it really was, he hoped they would form some better plan than this, for paying the ecclesiastical pastors of the country. One argument which particularly recommended this to their attention was, that by the number of in closures which had recently been made, the parishes where tythes were exacted, had diminished in number, and it had been invariably felt that the commutation of land was far more favourable to the interests of all concerned. Besides, provided no commutation of land could be effected, a commutation of corn rent might easily be made; and really it would invariably be found preferable in every view to the present system. Objections might probably be started to this mode, but he saw none so advantageous. At the same time, he would wish the committee to bear in mind, with all their attention to the distress of the country, that that distress was most keenly felt, not when capital was putting into the ground, but when it was taking out. Another charge to which he would advert, was the poor-rates, which he considered equally vexatious and oppressive, especially in a period like the present, when the taxes imposed by government were so numerous. It was very unjust that these rates should be exclusively levied from the proprietors of land only, without any reference to others who were better able to pay them. Levied as these rates were, he considered them the source of much immorality, and a refuge to indolence. He was of opinion, that the claims of paupers should be proportioned to the ages of the claimants. No one, for a moment, would doubt the propriety of providing for orphans, who had no friend or guardian but the hospitable care of a generous public. It was equally proper that relief should be afforded to those who in their days of industry had contributed to bear the public burthens, and who now, in the evening of life, of laden with infirmity and disease, were unable to provide for themselves. But he was not aware of the propriety of granting relief to those in the intermediate stage of life. He considered the interests of society would be better promoted by leaving them to the care of the benevolent and humane. Public morality would thus be promoted, and that connexion between rich and poor be established, which was the natural bond of society, and which was unhappily broken by this plan of poor-rates. The indigent, reduced to that situation by misfortune, had a legitimate claim to relief; and this method of granting relief would effectually prevent the indolent from preying so much as they do on the vitals of the public. On this subject he trusted ministers would consider, and they would see the advantage of his proposal, to confine the poor-rates no longer exclusively to landholders.—Another mode of relief might be effected, by reducing the duties on barley, which would be very advantageous to the proprietor, as he was the direct consumer of his own grain in this way to a certain extent. From a calculation which he had made, he found that the duty on malt, paid by a farmer occupying 400 acres, was actually more than he paid for property tax; and therefore, by reducing the duties, it would be found there would be a greater demand. He could not help noticing the deep obligations under which the country at present were to the right hon. the chancellor of the exchequer for his giving up the malt war duty. At the same time he would inform the right hon. gentleman, that grateful as the country were to him for his attention to their interests in this point of view, there was a general anxiety relative to the manner in which he would grant them this favour. The repeal of the tax, however pleasing it might be, had excited much uneasiness, because if continued till July, there would obviously be some suspension in business, unless the brewer saw he was likely to get the same relief to his liquor as he would have got to his malt. It would be better for the general interest of the public, if the right hon. gentleman could give up that tax immediately, as the uneasiness excited would thereby be removed, and business go on in its regular channel. If the right hon. gentleman would be so very kind as to consider the matter a little, he (Mr. Brand) had no doubt he would come to the same conclusion. Indeed, it was no more than fair for the brewer to have the same drawback on his beer as he would have on his malt, and to this he had no doubt the right hon. gentleman would pay every necessary attention.—He would proceed to show in what manner, the land might be relieved by raising the price of grain; and with respect to storehouses for foreign corn he had much difficulty in supporting the proposition of the hon. gentleman, conceiving that they might as well be created on the other side of the channel as in this country. He agreed that it was very proper in years of abundance to collect grain for the purpose of supply in succeeding years of comparative scarcity; but there was not sufficient capital in the country to effect this. In other parts of the hon. gentleman's plan he most cordially concurred. The farmers, or in other words, the manufac- turers of corn, had a claim to be protected, co-extensively with any other manufacturers. In this view the 12th resolution appeared to him to be most beneficial. He understood that that part of it which went by duties to prohibit the importation of foreign seeds was to be opposed by the right hon. gentlemen opposite. To him it appeared most desirable. In many parts of the country, in Lincolnshire, in Cambridgeshire, and in some other places, the cultivation of clover seed had been almost driven out by importation. A duty of 20s. a quarter would enable the farmer to enter into competition with the importer. In his opinion, if it were possible to impose a duty on the importation of foreign wool, without injury to our manufactures, it would be a measure most beneficial to agriculture. He knew that this would be difficult, but he thought it might be accomplished. A duty might be imposed on the cloth made with foreign wool, used in this country, and an equivalent drawback allowed on the export of cloth made from wool of home growth. He entreated that, whatever measures might be adopted, they should soon take place; for speculation would be at work, and much more actively than the committee in that House. The hon. gentleman concluded with expressing his thanks for the attention with which the committee had listened to him on this subject, on which, he confessed, he had been anxious to express his sentiments.

said, that he would not trouble the committee at present with the general opinions on the question before them, as he wished in the first place to collect the sentiments of as many hon. gentlemen as possible; but the hon. gentleman had put a question to him with respect to the malt war duty, to which an early answer on his part was certainly desirable. It related to the time and circumstance of taking off that duty. He was quite as aware as the hon. gentleman of the inconveniencies to which the hon. gentleman had alluded. They were in some degree unavoidable; but that did not make them less real. The effect of stagnating the process of a manufacture must be occasioned during the period when the manufacturer was preparing that article under a high duty, which was subsequently to enter into competition in the market with a similar article, prepared under a low duty. He could assure the hon. gentleman, that anxious as he was for the revenue, he was more anxious for the interests of agriculture and commerce. But he did not think any relief would be obtained by an anticipation of the cessation of the duty. This would be only to relieve one class of persons from an inconvenience by shifting it on another. The best course that could be adopted was, to provide that on the beer brewed from the time of the introduction of the bill until the cessation of the duty, and not disposed of by the brewer, a drawback should be allowed, proportioned to the quantity of malt used. This regulation would enable all the branches of the trade to go on with the least possible inconvenience.

said, he believed the distresses of the agricultural classes to be very great, and, with few exceptions, spread over the whole surface of the country. What were the causes, and what must be the remedy of that distress, he had never heard accurately defined. He thought the causes might be traced to the state of the circulation of the country. He had repeatedly turned his mind to the subject, and had been able to come to no other conclusion. Of the remedy proper to be applied, he thought nobody better able to form a correct judgment than the hon. gentleman who moved the resolutions. The propriety of remitting the property tax and the malt duties had been suggested; but the abandonment of these were no longer matters of speculation. All that could be done ought to be done for the relief of the agricultural interest; but, at the same time, they were to remember that there were two classes in the country, and it was the duty of parliament not to protect the agricultural interest to the ruin of the manufacturing interest. To the duty on the importation of foreign wool, he was bound, on behalf of those he represented, to object, and for himself, he thought such an impost could answer no good purpose. The noble lord said, that he considered it the worst possible policy to tax the raw material of a valuable manufacture, on which the industry of the country was successfully employed, and which greatly increased in its price, finally went back to the place from which it had been imported a manufactured article. The importance of the foreign wool brought into the kingdom, might be seen from the large and increasing demands for it. In 1812 the quantity of wool imported was 4,700,000lbs.; in 1813, it amounted to upwards of 7,000,000lbs., and last year we imported no less than 15,700,100lbs. It might be said, that we grow fine wool ourselves by an improved breed of sheep, but the House ought to be slow to adopt a measure like that which the hon. gentleman had thought it might be wise to adopt. The main points of the malt and property tax had been gained, and the others were of minor importance; for the House must not imagine that they could afford by interference any immediate or direct relief, where such extensive interests were concerned: the only actual relief that could be afforded was, to reduce the expenditure, and to set all classes at liberty from that burthen which now weighed so heavily on them. He did not say this as joining in the cry of the day, but from a conviction that no immediate relief could be afforded to the distresses of the country, and that the only alleviation for them would be a reduction of every unnecessary expenditure. He should be sorry if the House went into a committee with so erroneous an idea as that any great benefit could be conferred by active interference. He well knew what was said in the country, and what mistaken opinions people formed of the omnipotence of parliament. "Oh!" it was said, "the House is going into a committee, and all our difficulties will vanish." To encourage such ideas was only to plunge the people into deeper distress. If, without injury to other classes, any real relief could be afforded to one, he would be the first to embrace such a measure; but the only result of interference in matters of this nature was, to shift the burthen from one place, and lodge it with tenfold aggravation in another.

observed, that though it might appear presumption in him to claim the attention of the committee to the declaration of his opinions on a subject so weighty as that now before it, and on which so many honourable members were so much better informed than himself, yet he could not refrain from trespassing upon its indulgence with a few observations. He did not think he should be discharging the duty he owed to his constituents, whose interest he was bound to consult and to represent, if he remained wholly silent. He would therefore take a short view of some of the subjects brought forward by the resolutions, and discussed in the speeches of the hon. mover and the other hon. member under the gallery (Mr. Brand). He was of opinion, that the recommendation of warehouseing our own grain in a year of surplus, so as to meet the emergencies of a year of scarcity, was at all times prudent, and, in the present circumstances of the agricultural interest, could not fail to be beneficial. It would create a demand when it was most wanted for sustaining prices, and would contribute to moderate prices when from scanty harvests they would have a tendency to rise too high. The objection that the hon. member opposite (Mr. Brand) made to the resolution which pledged the House to repeal so much of the act of last year as referred to the warehousing of foreign grain, did not appear to him to be well founded. He had said that the existence of a great supply in our granaries, imported from abroad, could produce no effect upon the home market so long as the other provisions of the corn laws remained; and that, in fact, these laws rendered it equally inefficient, with regard to prices, as if it had been warehoused in depots on the opposite shores. He could not allow the justness of this opinion. When so much grain was within our own reach, and in our own country, it must have an effect upon the prices, beyond what it would have if it remained in the country where it was produced, with only the probability of being imported at some future period. Whatever opinion might be entertained on this subject, one thing he thought would admit of no dispute, namely, that if warehousing our own grain was proceeded in, and if by this means a quantity of our surplus produce which depressed the market were taken out of it, and stored up for a year of insufficient supply, the country must be benefited. He entirely concurred with the resolution that recommended protecting duties for the produce of our own soil, and went along with the reasonings of the hon. members who supported it. One hon. gentleman had, on a former night, pointed out particularly the reasonableness and justice of protecting by high duties on importation the manufacture of butter in those districts the profits of which chiefly depended upon the encouragement given to the production of that article. As the hon. member supported the interests of his constituents, he (colonel W.) was bound to do the same for his; and as representing a Welsh county, he might claim protecting duties on the importation of cheese. Indeed, he was of opinion, that all the products of our agriculture, as well as those of our manufacturing industry, should receive adequate encouragement by the security of a preference in the home market.—He next adverted to the remission of the war duty on malt, and expressed his assurance that it would be considered as a great boon by the whole country, and would tend much to restore those good old practices which the people were obliged to renounce, by the high price which it fixed upon their most wholesome and favourite beverage. He was convinced that the measure gave general satisfaction, and was more extensively connected with the morals and happiness of the lower orders of society than might at first sight appear. He would not wish to counteract the beneficial results to which it might lead, by concurring in that part of the hon. mover's resolutions that recommended the diminution of the impost upon spirits. That duty ought rather, in his opinion, to be augmented, than either lessened or withdrawn. The high price of malt, creating a high price for ale, had deprived the common people of their most wholesome drink, and, to the injury of their health and morals, had driven them to the gin-shop. This was severely felt and deeply lamented in the principality of Wales, where all the people formerly were accustomed to brew their own liquor, but where now, from the duty on malt, he believed there was not one cottage that adhered to this practice. They resorted to the pernicious custom of dram-drinking, instead of the wholesome beverage of their own manufacture. By the withdrawing of the malt duty he hoped they would change their habits, and that brandy and other spirits would disappear before their good old practice of drinking ale.—The next subject on which he begged to make a remark or two, was one in which the principality to which he had the honour to belong was more deeply interested than the other parts of the empire: he meant the relief that would be given to the people by a diminution of the tax on salt. It pressed very heavily upon the Welsh; who were in the habit of salting all their meat before they used it. He did not believe that there was a bit of fresh meat eaten by a single cottager in the whole of the principality. The duty, he thought, ought to be taken off, or very much reduced. He recalled to the House what he had formerly said on the subject of the tax on agricultural horses. He had shown the hardship with which this duty pressed on the small farmer. He would not go over what he then stated, but he would suggest, as a relief to this class of men, who were so little able to bear heavy taxation, that they should have one horse duty free. The small farmer who, by what he could not but consider as an erroneous construction of the act, now paid for a riding horse, although he had only one for general purposes, which he might occasionally ride to the next market, would thus experience a great relief. The hon. gentleman under the gallery had delivered several opinions on the subject of the tithes, in which he entirely concurred. Nothing could more contribute to set the parish and the clergyman by the ears, than the present mode of levying tithes. In the war we had no leisure to attend to domestic arrangements; but, upon the return of peace, we might hope that we should find opportunities of reviewing our internal system of regulations, and of making such improvements as the interests of the nation demanded. The tithes and the poor-rates were among the subjects which the legislature was imperiously called upon to consider. He would now only say a word about the cause of our present agricultural distresses, and he attributed them chiefly to the effect that our diminished circulation had in compelling the country banker to refuse accommodation to the farmer. Our difficulties and distresses had increased from this cause to an alarming extent, and called for the immediate interposition of the legislature.

rose and addressed the committee as follows:—

; unwilling as I am to trespass on the patience of the committee, I must beg their indulgence, and I am the more solicitous to obtain it, as I cannot concur in the view my hon. friend has taken of the causes which have produced the present deplorable state of the country. Though I differ with him as to the origin, I most perfectly agree with him that nothing but prompt and effectual relief can save the country. No one entertains more respect for the hon. member for Essex, or appreciates his merits higher; and with a great part of what he has proposed I most perfectly concur. I shall not attempt to describe the state of the country; unfortunately there are but too many such cases as an hon. member has stated to be met with. The numerous petitions from all quarters bespeak the general state of suffering.—No doubts can be entertained on the subject. His majesty's ministers, whatever opinions they might have held, must now be perfectly impressed with the lamentable state to which the agriculture of the country is reduced. I doubt not the noble lord and the gentlemen opposite being as anxious and honestly disposed to adopt every practicable mode of relief as we are on this side the House; but one sentiment can on this occasion animate the House—we may differ as to the mode, but not as to the object. Could I concur with my hon. friend, that the present depreciated price of grain arose from a redundancy of produce, I should view our situation as more deplorable and alarming than I had yet considered; for was such the case, we might still be distant from the worst. To the thousands now out of employ, thousands more might experience the same misfortune. Melancholy would our case be—sufficiently afflictive is it under the most favourable point in which we can contemplate it.

It is indispensably necessary the committee should clearly and distinctly inform itself of the causes which have brought such ruin on our agriculture. In order correctly to judge of the present, we must refer to the past state of our agriculture. If it proceeds from a too extended cultivation, we shall discover a progressive advance towards it. The progress of agriculture is, from its nature, slow. As a proof of this, thirty years ago the country was supposed to require an annual import of one-twelfth of its consumption. The politicians of those times held agriculture in little estimation: they considered it advantageous to be purchasers of bread, as the means of extending the sale of our manufactures. A better and wiser policy, fortunately for the country, was adopted; for vain had proved the courage and spirit of the nation in opposing our host of enemies, had we remained dependent on them for the necessaries of life. Twenty years of unexampled exertion, in which the progress of knowledge in agriculture advanced beyond all former example, has been barely sufficient to supply what was deficient, and to provide for the increased population of probably not less than a million, which has accrued within that period. From the year 1783 to 1813 but one year occurs of export—I mean the year 1792—and that only to the trifling amount of 12,000 quarters. In the other thirty years thirty-four millions and a half of quarters were imported beyond what were exported; costing the country not less, probably, than 5l. a quarter, or the enormous sum of one hundred and seventy millions. What country but Great Britain would not have been ruined by such a drain? In the latter part of the year 1813 the depreciation of agricultural produce commenced; the crop of that year was generally good. In consequence of the discussions on the corn bill, Europe apprehended so profitable a trade would be stopped, and therefore all the surplus produce of the continent was poured in upon us. The import of that year, and up till April when the ports closed, amounted to one million eight hundred thousand quarters, of which the wheat alone was equal to the consumption of 100 days. Such a supply, thrown on a market adequate to its own demands, could not fail of producing most serious mischief. This undoubtedly gave the first blow. The crop of 1814 was unfortunately defective in quality as much as quantity. We could in no way come in competition with foreign grain, and this compelled the farmer to reduce the price to a much lower degree than would have been necessary had the crop been favourable. Up to the year 1813 there is nothing indicative of the country possessing a surplus. The crop of 1814 was greatly deficient; that of 1815 most abundant; it yet, however, remains to be seen whether it has not been so exhausted by the waste of cheapness as not to cause a considerable rise before the next harvest. If high prices have not the effect of producing a surplus of grain, is it likely that it should have occurred during a period of depression? Reduced prices must have had the effect of reducing the quantity of wheat grown in the last two years. A great proportion of our best soils are devoted to pasture; this compels the cropping those of inferior quality; and hence the great disproportion of produce. The soils on which wheat is grown may be thus classed:—the first quality producing from 40 to 45 Winchester bushels per acre; the second from 30 to 35; inferior from 16 to 25. To raise grain sufficient for our consumption a considerable extent of lands of the inferior quality must be cropped with wheat. Price only can enable this to be done; rich countries alone can afford to cultivate poor land. Now, Sir, I can see no reason to suppose the country to be suffering from an excess of produce, under reduced prices, when no such thing occurred when they were higher, and when consequently there was more encouragement for the raising wheat. Nor has the fall of grain been the only difficulty the farmers had to contend with; an equal depreciation has taken place in all stock, and every other produce, wool excepted. If, therefore, a redundancy of produce was the sole cause, we must admit that this extended to stock as well as grain. This, I do not suppose, will be contended for by any one.

The next point in which I differ from the member for Essex is, as to the amount of rents made by the farmers. He estimates them at five parts, and probably very correctly from the point in which he takes his view; but I must remind him, that persons possessing large capitals, and renting from 500l. to 2000l. per annum, exist in only a small part of the country. One of the proudest and most gratifying sights I ever saw, was the corn-market at Norwich, where 400 farmers were supposed to be assembled, possessing capitals of from 5,000 to 30,000l. The like may, in some degree, exist in many of the southern counties, and even in Durham, Northumberland, and some parts of Scotland; but such is not the case in the kingdom at large. The great bulk of property is let in farms under 150l. per annum. A large proportion of tenants have raised themselves by their industry on small capitals; on such farms three rents, or three and a half, is the utmost extent. That the profits and produce of a farm depend greatly on the capital, is not to be disputed. In Norfolk, and where a system of good husbandry prevails, there is one acre at least in six under winter green crops. A farmer who can thus consume his straw with turnips, makes eight ton of manure for each ton of straw. Where turnips are not grown, the ton of straw produces only three ton and a quarter of manure, and that of very inferior quality. This at once shows the operation of capital. I am more anxious in urging this on the attention of the House, as it accounts for the generality of farmers being so little able to bear up against the pressure of the times. A most erroneous opinion is entertained by the public as to the profits of farmers. A general spirit of improvement led them to expend much of their gains. The price of labour was greatly advanced during the war, which, together with taxes and poor-rates, took from the farmer a very large share of his profits, and much more than those who looked only superficially at the question had any idea of. Thus, then, for the last two years the farmer of small capital has not been making more than two rents and a half. Were the price of produce to remain as it has been, taxes and poor-rates would swallow up the whole landed produce of the country.

Having, Mr. Chairman, endeavoured to show that the fall does not proceed from a redundancy of produce, and that it has exhausted the means of a large proportion of the tenantry of the kingdom, I would call the attention of the House to the state of the agricultural labourer. His sufferings exceed those of any former period. In the time of scarcity he saw and felt the cause,—it was the dispensation of Providence. The affluent alleviated the sufferings of the lower orders by every possible exertion in their behalf. The scope of the affliction, being but of short duration, enabled them to support their sufferings with fortitude—no man was idle. Now, Sir, in the midst of abundance, thousands are out of employment; labour, at any rate of wages, is not to be bad: those whose good fortune it is to be employed, are working for lower wages, so that no advantage results to them from cheapness. The superfluity of labour threatens a still further reduction of wages; so that the future holds out no cheering prospect to this meritorious class of society—unassisted, the evil must spread. Both farmer and proprietor will be compelled still further to contract the scale of their operations.

I would next advert to the manufacturer. For some time after the peace, the demand for goods of all kinds was greater than at any former period. This afforded full employment, without any reduction of wages. The advantage of the cheapness of the necessaries of life appeared highly for the interest of this class of the community. They, and the noble lord, reckoned on a state of things that could only be temporary. As soon as the foreign market fell to the level of its ordinary supply, the decreased demand in the home market was felt. The magnitude of the sum which may be supposed lost to the manufacturer is enormous. Of two millions six hundred thousand persons employed in agriculture, one may fairly suppose a reduction in the rate of wages equal to 3l. a head,—nearly eight millions. This, heretofore, was perhaps wholly expended in goods of various kinds. Add to it the retrenchments on the part of the farmer, and you may suppose it twelve millions; and not less than half that sum retrenched on the part of the proprietor. Thus has the manufacturing interest lost customers to an amount little if any thing short of twenty millions per annum. Those unfortunate prejudices entertained between the mercantile and agricultural interests have produced much mischief to the country. Happily, all parties are enlightened by this fatal misfortune, and each has risen in the estimation of the other. If any jealousy still is entertained by the less enlightened classes, this is fast wearing away;—one great truth in political economy is established—that trade and agriculture are so united in their interests that the ruin of one must involve the destruction of the other. That our manufacturers are now suffering is too certain. Their wages are reduced, and their hours of working limited, so as to render abortive all advantages of cheap provisions. An advance on the necessaries of life, that would restore to them full employment, would conduce materially to these advantages. In relieving the agriculturalist you are equally relieving them. The best and most important consideration is, for the House to weigh the consequence that must infallibly arise out of the distressed state of agriculture. The large tracts likely to be untenanted as well as the defective management which there is too much cause to apprehend may be general, must contribute most materially to reduce the next year's crop. Admitting it to fall short of what is requisite for our consumption, what must be the consequence? A rise in grain, as destructive to a large portion of the population as low prices have been. Such a case is certainly to be apprehended if means are not resorted to for preventing it. The corn bill, though its operation has not yet been felt here, must already have had a powerful effect on those countries which heretofore supplied us. Now, in, fact, Great Britain was the only purchaser; this failing, the growth of grain, beyond their own wants, will be discontinued. Should a scarcity from any cause arise, how is it to be supplied? The price would on such occasions be enormous. It behoves us therefore not to disregard our present situation, but to look anxiously forward to the consequences which may, by possibility, result from the distresses of the times.

The measures proposed by my hon. friend, for the relief of agriculture, are wise, but they are too distant in their effects to meet the present crisis. The taking off the war malt duty will greatly relieve the barley-growers: this, however, is confined to a small district. I mean not to undervalue it, as it will benefit the farmer and contribute to the comfort of the people, and I hope the reduction of price, which I should rejoice to have announced to the public, will contribute to introduce malt liquor into more general use. The public will, I hope, Sir, soon have the benefit of the two millions and a half relinquished by government. On the subject of giving a bounty on export, I do not see where a market can be found. In years of scarcity in other countries any surplus would find a ready sale. As a general measure, the only regular purchasers are Spain and Portugal: their consumption is too trifling, and interfered with by America and the states of Barbary. There is one source, however, to which a bounty may be applicable, I mean the supply of our West India colonies. This would at once give additional freight to our shipping, and procure a saving in the returned produce equal to the bounty. I fear, Sir, our shipping feel at this moment the general depression, as much as any part of our concerns, I apprehend the consumption of the West India colonies and our foreign garrisons may amount to a million of quarters,—an object worthy of serious attention. I most fully concur with the member for Essex in the propriety of storing grain as a provision against defective harvests. London consumes one-eighth of the produce of the kingdom—above a million quarters of wheat annually. Not less than three months supply ought ever to be on store,—or two hundred and fifty thousand quarters. Admitting the loss and charges of such an establishment to amount to one hundred thousand a-year, it would be no great sacrifice for the security it would afford.

So much, sir, has been said on the policy of some modification with regard to the law of tithes, that I am unwilling to occupy the time of the committee. The present system must be acknowledged to be a great pressure on the country, and calls immediately for legislative interfe- rence. I am not aware that any arrangement could be objected to by the clergy, as it would not only be the means of upholding and establishing their interests, but of essentially relieving and improving the country. I most fully concur with the noble lord, the member for Yorkshire, that it admits of great doubt how far it would be wise to check the importation of fine wool. Our climate, generally speaking, is not adapted for the growth of fine wool. I believe it to be attended with great loss as to the produce of food. Our combing wool as well as our coarse wool has sold well, and this may be attributed to their working on the fine wool. Anxious as I am for the interests of agriculture, I could never be induced to promote them at the expense of our manufactories. If the gain by the manufacturer outweighs the loss of the farmer, the public gains by the trade, and it ought not to be meddled with. Without full information on this subject, the House would not think it right to take any steps.

The next important point is the charges for maintaining the poor. When I first had the honor of a seat in this House, the sum raised for their, support did not exceed three millions; it now amounts to above seven. So complex and multifarious is the system, that I fear no individual will be found courageous enough to attempt bringing forth a plan for correction of its abuses. The system is radically wrong, and instead of advancing the comforts and happiness of the lower orders, it contributes to destroy all forethought, and plunge the great mass of the people into vice and misery. Humanity as well as policy demands that the wisdom of the legislature should be exerted on the subject. By referring the matter to a committee, to examine and report on the state of the poor, some plan may be suggested equal to the magnitude of the evil.

There is a further subject connected with agriculture to which I beg to call the attention of the chancellor of the exchequer. Mr. Pitt pledged himself to the abolition of the salt tax, and lord Sidmouth renewed the pledge; unfortunately the matter still remains as it did, greatly to the injury of agriculture. The tax produces a million and a half, one-third of which I believe is expended in its collection. The country would be a gainer if it paid two millions in any other mode to have the free use of salt. It would become a source of extensive trade; both for feeding stock, as well as a manure, it would most materially serve the interests of agriculture. Foreigners can afford to import this article from us, and find infinite advantage by so doing; whilst our own country is precluded the use of it from an oppressive and injudicious tax. The recent additions made by the right hon. the chancellor of the exchequer on spirits have alone reduced the quantity manufactured in Scotland from three millions of gallons to one million; and thus, from the enormous scale on which smuggling is carried on, a reduction of duties on spirits would materially benefit both the farmer and public. I should be sorry to suggest any reduction of the taxes which, under the most complete and rigid system of economy, and one totally different from what the noble lord at first proposed to the House, will be barely sufficient to supply the exigencies of the state. In cases where the country gains nothing, and the subject suffers much, it is consistent with political wisdom to grant relief.

Again I strongly call on the right hon. gentleman to consider the hardships to which the farmer of 70l. per annum is exposed, from the vexations of the saddle-horse duty: the income tax on his property was but 70s. a year, whilst he is subject to be charged for a saddle horse 2l. 17s. and 10s. for a groom. Inspectors have imposed the duty on all who kept a horse, and left to the individual the onus of proving that neither himself nor family had ever used the horse on any occasion but for agricultural purposes. The temptation to perjury is dreadful. The party is to account at the distance of nearly two years for all that has passed. In 97 appeals in one ward, in the county of Cumberland, 94 were allowed. I do intreat the right hon. gentleman to take this into his serious consideration, and so to modify the tax, or to grant relief to farmers of small properties, and to fix some moderate payment, to avoid the vexation and enormity they give birth to.

I have now, Sir, shown the general pressure on all ranks arising out of the agricultural distress, and that it has not originated from any superfluity of our own growth—partly from a ruinous foreign import, but mostly from another cause to which I shall now advert. No sooner had the depreciation of produce commenced in the latter end of the year 1813, than the country banker, who had previously been ready to grant accommodation to the farmer, began to narrow his dealings; as the pressure increased, his support was still further narrowed, till at length not a shilling could be obtained. Every security was called in. I do not conceive a less sum than 25 millions has been withdrawn from circulation in the shape of country bank paper; 12 millions of this constituted agricultural capital, and contributed to enable the farmer to carry on his operations. The effect of this change has been to force, with few exceptions, the farmers of many quarters of the kingdom to carry their produce to market; the object of all was to sell. The price, too, was of secondary consideration;—money must be had—every day made circumstances worse, and so it has proceeded till the crop has been gradually exhausted. The sale of produce of the last six months greatly exceeds the usual average. The labourer and manufacturer will only eat the finest flour. I am not disposed to find fault that those who have few luxuries within their power, should indulge their taste in what is within their reach; the coarsest parts of the flour, equal to one-eighth, have, to a great amount, been un-saleable, and applied to the feeding of pigs and cattle. I have long been strongly inclined to believe, that a rise in the price of grain would take place before the next harvest. In wheat the price is already advanced to 72s. in many parts of England. This, however, comes too late to relieve the great mass of farmers. The produce is greatly exhausted, and if his midsummer rents are to be paid, which will be partially, you will leave him without any thing to carry on his operations. Whether I consider the farmer or proprietor, I see equally the necessity of granting him some temporary pecuniary relief; his wants are immediate; and by this alone you can stop the general ruin which threatens the country—the present as well as the future interests of the country demand this of you. Twelve millions, brought into immediate circulation, would have a most powerful influence in raising the spirits of the farmer, restoring the, activity of the agricultural interest, giving occupation to the labourer, and employment to the manufacturer. What is proposed by my hon. friend may promote the general interests of agriculture, but its immediate rescue from destruction, and almost certain state of bankruptcy, can only be effected by instantaneous re- lief. Through the medium of the commissioners of the income tax this might be done with little trouble and no risk of loss. It would be something consolatory to the country to render what has been such a source of oppression a means of relief. It is fortunate that there is no further occasion for the labours of those gentlemen; that their last ant can be made what would prove generally beneficial. I should recommend the lending equal to half a year's rent to all farmers, where the landlord would give his collateral security, payable in six, twelve, and eighteen months. Much benefit was produced by a similar plan to the commercial interests a few years back. I had the honour to act as one of the commissioners. I verily believe it would be the salvation of our agriculture at this moment; and the plan would have this to recommend it beyond that of my hon. friend's,—it would not innovate on the existing laws between landlord and tenant.

If the tenant could of his own accord pledge his stock, it might be to the prejudice of the landlord; such a plan of relief would be inadequate to the extent of the evil, and afford only a temporary benefit. The plan I suggest to the committee would embrace the distresses of every part of the country. The interest of the loan to be paid, three per cent. by the landlord, and two by the tenant. I cannot doubt the noble lord and his colleagues being sincere in their wish to remove the difficulties which the war and its numerous burthens have brought on the country. I wish the endeavours of the House may prove successful. The crisis is awful, the country looks with anxious solicitude to the discussion of parliament, and never had they more reason to confide in the wisdom and patriotism of any House of Commons; already it has rendered to the country more solid and essential services than any preceding parliament for the last thirty years. The victory over the income tax has brought with it reforms that would never have been heard of; and I trust, by persevering in the same line of conduct, they will save the country, and restore its prosperity, and relieve the people from their most oppressive burthens.

lamented that, under the various forms in which this question had presented itself during the last two years, it had been so much the custom to regard the interests of the grower and the consumer as opposed to each other, and every measure submitted to parliament as in the light of a diplomatic arrangement. He agreed with the hon. gentleman that bitter experience had undeceived the people of this country of this error, and that there was now a general conviction of the close connexion that subsisted between the prosperity of every class and interest in the community. It was now admitted by most thinking men that we had arrived at a dilemma, in which we must either submit to a subtraction of British capital, or continue to contend against the low prices of foreign markets. He begged the committee to pay attention to the documents on the table, by which it was clearly established that this country, in the seasons of its largest import and its severest domestic scarcity, had never obtained from abroad above one-fifteenth of its whole annual consumption of grain. In this calculation he included all kinds of grain, the gross aggregate of which was between 35 and 41 millions of quarters per annum, and the average of which he might therefore take at 37 millions. The greatest importation of foreign grain took place in the year 1801, amounting to 2,406,000 quarters, or about one-fifteenth of the consumption of that year. The next year of great import was 1810, when the foreign grain brought into the British market was 2,236,000 quarters, or about one-sixteenth of the consumption. For the year 1813 there were similar returns. It certainly must be desirable that some settled system of policy should be pursued, in order to prevent those sudden fluctuations which operated to the alternate distress or ruin both of the farmer and the consumer. Any man who referred to the accounts before the committee must perceive how weak a reliance could be placed, in seasons of exigency, upon a foreign supply. Let him advert also to the peculiar situation of the farmer, and, on the question of encouragement, recollect that he did not possess the advantage of the stockholder, who might retire from and return to the market at his pleasure; but that the farmer's capital consisted of his barns and granaries, and was not to be converted into ready money as might suit his interest or convenience. It was a fallacy to suppose that all this would speedily right itself by the natural operation of a free trade. The principle was indisputable, as far as it limited itself to the internal commerce of the country, but it would not apply to a state of things in which the produce of our own capital and industry, burthened with heavy taxes, was to be mixed up in the general market with the produce of countries labouring under little or no taxation at all. It became something like a question of faith. Would the nation choose to depend, in extraordinary seasons, upon a foreign supply, or would they take measures for ensuring, as far as possible, a supply at home, and look to the foreign grower only for occasional relief? Upon this single question of the trade in grain was he an advocate for monopoly, and the only article which he would except from the general principle of unrestricted commerce was the agricultural produce of our own soil. The late war had called into exertion all the physical and moral energies of this country, but it had pressed upon its agriculture with peculiar severity. This pressure had been greatly aggravated by the extensive imports of the last year. The effect of that importation had been, not so much to incapacitate the farmer from maintaining the competition, as to disable the country banker from furnishing that circulating medium, by means of which alone the farmer could find a vent for his produce. Under all the circumstances, however, he could not agree in taking that gloomy view of the state of the country which had been drawn by some honourable gentlemen. He saw it rich in population, in produce, in houses, in a cultivated soil, and in all the sources and materials of internal strength and opulence. To him nothing appeared wanting to a course of progressive prosperity, but a system of excluding generally the foreign corn grower, and of depending upon our own domestic industry and resources. The farmer's incapacity, he was persuaded, was but temporary; it was relative, and not intrinsic; it required only that he should find that customer in the home manufacturer which the home manufacturer found in him. It was impossible for him, however, to go so far as to approve either of the plan of abolishing the warehousing system, or of issuing exchequer bills; and he had no doubt that the relief already obtained by the discontinuance of the property tax and the duties on malt would very materially benefit the agricultural interests of the country.

observed, that he would not detain the committee by any lengthened arguments, the more particu- larly as from what had passed, very little remained to be said on the present subject. A great evil was acknowledged to exist, in the general distress of the agricultural classes, which in his opinion could only be remedied by giving them sufficient protection against the foreign grower. After the long and arduous war which had just terminated, it would be useless to look for a remedy to many of the distresses consequent upon it, unless sufficient protection were given to the landed interest. How were they to secure the British grower against foreign competition? By laying such a duty on the importation of foreign produce as would countervail the taxation to which the British agriculturist was subjected, and to which foreigners were not liable. The whole system of this country was built upon monopoly; and we were not at liberty to depart from that monopoly with respect to the farmer alone. If protection was afforded to the grower, by securing him against foreign competition, he thought there was sufficient capital in the country for the relief of agriculture. Much relief might also be afforded by the appointment of a committee to revise the laws relating to the trade in wool, although he entirely concurred with a noble lord under the gallery, that every measure of this nature ought to be the result of a well-advised deliberation.

said, he was sorry to call the attention of the House from the subject more immediately before the committee, but he understood, that in his absence some observations had been made by certain hon. members, touching his conduct in presenting a petition to the House, in which these hon. members threw out some imputations as to his having neglected his duty to his constituents. He thought some explanation was due by the hon. members to whom he alluded.

explained, that in presenting to the House a petition from his constituents in Wiltshire, he had taken occasion to observe, that a petition on the same subject had been presented by the noble lord, when the House was very thinly attended, when none of his majesty's ministers were present, and when all discussion upon it was therefore in a manner precluded.

explained to the same effect. He did not mean to impute to the noble lord any intention of suppressing the petition, but he felt it incumbent on him to bring it under the notice of the House.

observed, that he had acted upon the rule he always adhered to, of presenting every petition put into his hands at the earliest possible opportunity.

said, that however great the distress might be in England, it was much greater in Ireland. In that country all the separate circumstances which contributed to this distress, operated in a stronger degree than in England. If much evil had been produced in England by the state of the currency, and the failure of the country banks, he appealed to those members who knew the situation of Ireland, whether in that respect it was not still worse. He begged the House to consider that the relief which had been afforded in England by the remission of taxation would not have such an effect in Ireland. Taxes had been remitted to the extent of seventeen millions, being the amount of the property tax and of the malt tax. In England, therefore, there was relief from taxes to the amount of one-fourth part of the whole; whereas in Ireland this relief was only felt to the amount of one-eighteenth part of the whole. The only adequate protection to Ireland would be by giving the preference to her agricultural produce; to this preference she could alone look for relief. But it did not seem to be the scope of the resolution now moved to give this relief, even by preference in the great article of corn. There was another article in which he was glad to hear that relief was to be afforded,—he meant the encouragement of the butter trade. Considering the state of society in that country, relief could only be afforded by giving a stimulus to industry; and this could not be afforded in a more effectual way than by encouraging the produce of this apparently unimportant article of butter. Those who were unacquainted with the situation of Ireland, would perhaps hear with surprise, that there was no one article of such official value as butter, excepting the great staple commodities of corn and linen. To enable the committee to form an accurate judgment as to the importance of this article, he gave the following short statement:—In 1815, the aggregate amount of the total exports of bullocks, cows, beef, and bacon, from Ireland, was 897,245l.; in the same year the amount of butter exported was 918,000l. The total amount of the exports from Ireland in that year, including articles of every description, was about 7,000,000l., so that the article of butter constituted nearly 1–7th part of the whole amount of the exports of Ireland. The following statement would show to what an extent the produce of this article in Ireland had of late been diminished in consequence of the importation of foreign butter. In 1813 the amount of foreign butter imported into London was 29,111l. In the same year the amount imported into London was 159,872l. So that the quantity of foreign butter imported three years ago, was about one-sixth part of the quantity imported from Ireland. But in the year 1815 the quantity of foreign butter imported into London was 134,000 hundred weight; whereas in that year the quantity imported into London from Ireland was only 115,123 hundred weight. This statement would show how much encouragement was wanted for this article; and it would also show, that relief was not afforded by the remission of taxes; but must be given by protecting the produce of the country against that of foreign nations. If the committee was convinced of this, his odject would be effected.

was desirous of stating, in the outset of his observations, that he considered the resolutions proposed by the hon. gentleman to be open to various objections. In the first place, they appeared to him to be far less necessary now, than at the period when they were originally introduced. Since that period a great practical relief had been extended by the cessation of the burthens under which the agricultural interest had previously laboured. He was one who certainly had thought the financial system recommended by his right hon. friend to be the most advisable which parliament at present could adopt: but the property tax and the war malt duties having in fact expired, or being about to expire, it was in vain to deny that agriculture was already relieved in two of its most solid branches. He believed that he rightly took the general sense of the House, when he assumed it to be unfavourable both to the plan of abandoning the warehousing system, and to that of affording temporary assistance by an issue of exchequer bills. It was impossible that either British or foreign corn should ever be warehoused upon mere vague speculation, because the uncertainties of a season might make all such speculations fatal. With regard, then, to the proposition for granting a bounty on exportation, it was not a doubt which he entertained of its expediency, but an intimate conviction that he felt of its impolicy, on which his opposition to it would be founded. His conviction was, that no trade which could stand by itself needed the assistance of a bounty, and that no bounty could uphold a trade which required artificial support. He was equally averse to the plan of turning the protecting into prohibitory duties; and he was so, not upon a view of particular articles of natural produce, but on a view of them in the gross. In the situation which he had the honour to hold, he could assure the House that he had received innumerable applications, calling upon him to impose a prohibitory duty in favour of almost all the various articles of domestic produce. Many of these statements were quite convincing when considered separately, but it was his duty to compare them, and act on a consideration of the whole. To adopt the principle of an universal prohibition, appeared to him to be little less than to adopt that continental system of exclusion which it was one of the first objects of the war to overturn. He did not mean to say that no crisis could occur in which that system might not be applicable. Such a case, in his opinion, had presented itself last year, when he had felt it his duty to introduce a new legislative measure on the subject of the corn trade. He considered that measure to have stood on the ground of an overwhelming necessity, to have been demanded by an extraordinary combination of circumstances, and to have properly superseded the natural freedom of foreign commerce, at a time when that commerce depended, not only on the casualties of the seasons, but on the caprice or policy of foreign enemies. But, while he objected to the principle of prohibition, he was ready to admit that he could easily conceive a most material difference between that and a principle of protection; though, at the same time, what extent of duty should be fixed upon as the protective one was a matter of very considerable doubt, and of serious consideration. It was from a conviction of the political difficulties in which Ireland was placed, as well as of the agricultural distresses under which she laboured, that he had it in contemplation to propose a duty on foreign butter that would operate as a protection to that of Ireland: but still he admitted, that this was only a choice of what appeared the least of two evils, and not a good thing per se. There were grounds in the particular situation of Ireland from which he concluded, that the measure he meant to propose would be doing a great practical good to that country: but, in his opinion, there did not exist grounds for going the same length on other articles, for which the hon. member had proprosed protecting duties. If it were the general opinion of the House that there should be a protecting tax on foreign tallow, cheese, and hides, in favour of our own produce, he should consider himself bound to submit to that opinion, which he should not deem altogether unreasonable, if the question with regard to the tallow and the hides stood alone and unconnected. The great objection was, however, that there was already a duty on these foreign articles; and, what was more important still, they were the two articles with which one of the greatest branches of our trade was carried on—namely, that with South America. It was quite impracticable to obtain specie alone for our commodities, and indeed barter itself was one of the most advantageous modes of conducting commerce. It would therefore be extremely imprudent, on general principles, to cut up by the roots a branch of trade of growing and almost incalculable importance. With regard to hides, there was also this additional objection, that any new tax on them would only increase the evil already so severely felt from the high duties on leather; and this burthen would press with the severest weight on the very agriculturists who were proposed to be relieved by the high protecting duty. Similar considerations appeared to him equally applicable to the proposed duties on wool and rapeseed imported. Any increased duty on them appeared objectionable, as injurious to the woollen manufactures of the country. With regard to rapeseed, the oil extracted from which was partially employed in the woollen manufacture, any new duty on it seemed objectionable on the same grounds. Two classes of society thought it important to their interests to impose a duty on foreign rapeseed—these were the whale-fishers and the agriculturist. The former class had stated to him that they were nearly driven out of the market by the conversion of foreign rape-seed into oil, that was employed in various processes in which whale-oil would otherwise be used. But what would it avail to the agriculturist, if the foreign rapeseed were driven out of the market, and they were met by the competition of the whale-fishers? And, on the other hand, if the whale-fishers were cut up by the produce of British rapeseed, they would have a similar ground of complaint. The whale-fishers, in their conversations with him, had admitted the difficulty; though, at the same time, they had candidly declared, that they had no objection to compete with the British grower, but only with the foreigner. How, then, would the agriculturists be relieved by a duty on rapeseed, if it should happen, as the whale-fishers expected, that they would be able to beat the former out of the market? He was afraid that we had already gone quite as far as policy would admit in our system of prohibitions, if not indeed too far; and we should be particularly cautious how we advanced still farther into the system. With all his inclination to promote the interests of agriculture, yet in his official situation, this opposite view to that of the hon. mover of the resolutions was strongly pressed upon him by a variety of considerations. There was one particular exception in the case of butter, and he had stated the reasons, arising from the situation of Ireland, which had induced him to make it. He had felt it his duty to state his objections to the measures proposed, and he did so with all deference for the opinion of the committee.

remarked, that the strength, the virtue, and the happiness of the people, mainly depended on the prosperity of the agriculture of the country; and on this principle he contended, that the country should be forced to feed its own population. No partial advantage to be derived from commerce could compensate for any deficiency in this respect. The true principle of national prosperity was, an absolute prohibition of the importation of foreign agricultural produce, except in extreme cases. He objected to the resolution proposing a bounty on the export of grain, because no bounty we could afford to give would counterbalance the advantages of foreign countries in respect to cheapness.

observed, that he had heard with great pleasure the speech of his right hon. friend at the head of the board of trade. It was to him a source of great satisfaction, that this department of the public service was guided by such enlightened views and liberal principles. Happy would it have been in former in- stances, if some of the many applications constantly made to that office for protecting duties had not been too readily listened to. Still, seeing that his right hon. friend concluded his speech with such a negative catalogue of remedies, he was inclined to fear that nothing would be effected that was likely to afford relief to the agriculture of the country now or hereafter; though he did not mention this as any accusation against his right hon. friend, but as a sad proof of the difficulty of finding any. He would entreat the House, however, not to let the agriculture, the main interest of the state, fall into decay, without deliberately considering every measure that might avert such a calamity. It was not this or that branch of manufactures, it was not Spitalfields or Coventry, whose existence was at stake; it was that of England herself, to which all other interests were mere appendages. The question was, whether the land-owners of England should be reduced to the lowest rank in the scale of society? If they were pressed down to the earth, then would perish the safeguards of the constitution—the frame of the whole of English society; and, though the language might remain, England would never be again that for which she had been admired. He had anxiously listened to all that had been said in the committee; and he must say, that if ever there was a remarkable coincidence of opinion on all sides of the House, it was manifested on the present occasion. Here the hon. gentleman briefly enumerated the causes to which the agricultural distresses might be ascribed, concluding with the more recent one of the withdrawing of the country-bank circulation. He had listened anxiously to his right hon. friend, expecting to hear some observations from him on the money-circulation of the country. When attention was directed to this topic, it would naturally occur, that from the distress prevailing among the farmers, there was likely to be a diminished supply, and consequent high prices. This was not a consolatory prospect to the people, though undoubtedly a remedy would in this way be afforded to the agricultural interest. But then, from the altered value of our currency, there were no means of obtaining relief. He calculated that the price of wheat had fallen within these five years from 100 shillings per quarter to 55 shillings. Of this fall in price he ascribed 20 per cent. to the altered value of our currency, which had now risen nearly to its old standard, and the other 30 per cent. to the fall in the real value of the commodity, occasioned by peace and other circumstances. Was this, he would ask, to be the permanent state of things, or was it to be removed? This was by far the most important part of the present discussion. The fall in the real value of grain was a matter beyond the regulation of the House; but the fall of price, to the amount of 20 per cent. occasioned by the rise in the value of our currency, was the point to which the attention of the legislature ought to be mainly directed, as being within its control. He would conjure ministers and the House not to leave the country at sea, the sport of this most dangerous system. The depreciation of currency was not attended with the same hazardous consequences under the despotic government of the continent as with us. What those governments once did in adulterating and depreciating the currency of their respective states could not again be undone, and hence all contracts accommodated themselves to the change. In this way the value of the ruble in Russia had been depreciated from half-a-crown to 10d.; but here we had got to this situation, that our notes could be diminished in value to almost any extent, and then increased in value in the same proportion. Hence our system was one of infinitely greater hazard than any other course that ever was pursued. If our standard of currency was to be maintained at every sacrifice, why did not government, taking advantage of the present price of specie, compel the bank to resume payment in coin? Then, at least, we should have the certainty, that the fall of 20 per cent. on agricultural produce could never be recovered. If, however, cash payments were not resumed, then he believed that a great part of that paper which had been withdrawn from circulation would be gradually re-issued, increasing the prices of every commodity, and proceeding exactly in the same course as that which the country had already witnessed. Something must be done to secure us from the dangers of the system. Better would it be to sit down with the loss of 20 per cent. than gradually to increase the circulation of the country to an indefinite extent, and thus expose the country to the dangers that might arise from a sudden panic. The system to which he now alluded had in its effects been the chief cause of our agricultural distresses. How greatly had it tended to degrade the land-owner in the scale of society! For, having borrowed hundreds of millions in a depreciated currency, we had now to pay the interest of these millions with a currency at par. How much of the real property of the country must in this way be permanently absorbed by the stockholder! He suspected, indeed, it would be found utterly impossible to pay the mass of interest in the standard currency. He should be happy to find a remedy for the existing depression of the real price of agricultural produce. If things were left to themselves, indeed, this evil would cure itself, and all other things would be regulated by the price of the necessaries of life; but it unfortunately so happened, that there could be little or no alteration in the amount of the taxes. The portion of the taxes destined for the payment of the national debt could not be diminished, though the ordinary expenses of government might be diminished by the exertions of that House. Some hon. gentlemen had expressed their surprise at the difficulties experienced, seeing that there never was a period when there was more abundance of produce in the country; but the value of that produce depended not so much on its personal use to the proprietor, as on the means which he had of exchanging it for an adequate return. These proprietors were so situated, that they must pay the money they had borrowed, the -annuities they had contracted, and they must receive an equivalent in exchange, to enable them to do this, The consequence, he suspected, would be, that the existing plenty would speedily be ended by the want of remuneration. The first and most obvious mode of affording relief to the agriculturists was that of reducing taxation. No one circumstance in this session had afforded him greater satisfaction than the taking off of the war malt duty. This, of all others, would be the greatest relief to the landed interest. He did not, however, quite understand the mode in which the chancellor of the exchequer proposed to give the relief up to July next. If he proposed merely to allow a drawback of the tax on malt in the hands of brewers, it should be considered, that in the country there were many families who brewed their own malt liquor, and they would for a time be deprived of the proposed advantage. With respect to the duty on spirits, a strong case might be made out which would at least show that this subject should be again revised; and though, with respect to the many other duties which bore on land, he was not sanguine enough to hope that they could all be removed, yet he trusted that the committee would lend its endeavours to lighten as much as possible those burthens which it could not entirely take away. He most cordially concurred in the proposition, that prohibitory duties of all kinds should if possible be avoided; but, at the same time, he could not but allow that those who differed with him in opinion had something like a fair ground to go upon. They might truly say, that a system of prohibitions had long existed in this country among the trading and manufacturing classes; that the landholders had hitherto followed very slowly, and at great distance, the path so generally pursued by the other interests of the community; that they had not from time to time attacked the trading board with petitions, to protect their individual interest to the exclusion of others; that, on the contrary, they had in general been the sacrifices to others gain; and that every prohibition had, in fact, been a tax levied on them to the benefit of the manufacturer. They might justly complain, that a principle which had been generally acted upon, while it operated to their detriment, should now on a sudden be exclaimed against as a wrong one, when it was possible that it might operate to their advantage. At all events, they would have a just title to ask, that if no prohibition should be allowed in their favour, at least some of the existing prohibitions, which were so obnoxious and injurious, should also have a stop put to them. He was perfectly ready to allow that nothing could be worse than that this country should adopt an exclusion of the continental commerce, in imitation of Buonaparté; nothing could be more futile, as well as unprincipled, than that we should constitute ourselves a nation of all sellers and no buyers. But let there be some consistency in our policy. What had been the principle of proceeding with respect to the colonies? Though, according to fair principles, colonies had no right to expect from the mother country any thing but protection of their condition, yet they had repeatedly applied for protection of their different branches of trade and produce. Not many sessions ago, an act was passed to protect Canada against the importation of Prussian timber. Was this wise or prudent? If it was, what was the fair application of the argument? Was it not at least this?—" Don't, if you think it wrong, add any prohibition for the benefit of the agricultural capitalist, but at all events take away those prohibitions which benefit others to his injury." He came now more to the detail of his subject; and he would first refer to the laws respecting wool. Much as that commodity was protected by our laws, yet he believed he might safely state, that less attention was paid to the improvement of wool in this country than in almost any other country in Europe. Much finer wool was found abroad than at home. He thought that a small duty of 6d. or 1s. on every imported pack of fine wool would, without materially affecting the price to the consumer, be a considerable relief to the farmer: at least, he was quite sure that as a tax it would be infinitely less injurious than the tax on agricultural horses—a tax which struck at the very root of industry, and checked the essential machinery of the agricultural labourer. He thought, too, that an additional duty might fairly be laid on rape-seed and some other seeds, though clover was not one of them as it was consumed only by the farmer. He did not see that any particular advantage would arise from the repeal of the warehousing system. He was disposed to allow that the prohibiting price of 80s. was now equal to 86s.; and so far, therefore, the protection to the English farmer was higher than before. But the evil lay too deep to be reached by such remedies. If government even had a source of treasure in the moon at their absolute disposal, and would lend it to the farmers, the farmers would not be the better for it. They would be as far as ever from possessing the possibility of paying the 5 per cent. for the loan; they would have no chance of paying the debt. He did hope, therefore, that all idea of bounty on exportation would be given up, because it was impossible to do good by raising money on the foreigner for application at home. There were two very important branches of this subject remaining,—the tithes and the poor-rates, into which he should not now go at length, though he thought it right to say a few words about them. He was the more anxious to express his own view on the subject of tithes, because it differed extremely from the views of many persons who had considered the matter with the greatest attention. He did not think it wise or prudent to press for a commutation of tithes: for he believed that under the present system the farmer paid less than the real value of the tenth part. There were many persons sufficiently willing to clamour against tithes, and perhaps they had a secret feeling or wish that such a species of remuneration should be done away with altogether; but he apprehended that, whatever might be the wishes of particular persons, none would venture to suggest any alteration of the system, except on the principle of a fair exchange. It was well known, that the value of the tithe was very different to the holder and to the receiver. Distance, difficulty of carriage, want of care, neccessary waste, all tended to diminish the value of the article to the receiver, and this depreciation would of course be taken into the account in any system of commutation. He had no doubt that every farmer in the kingdom would rather abide by the tithing system, than pay a compensation which should be founded on an estimate of the real value of the tithed articles. On the subject of poor-rates, he should merely suggest, that it appeared to him that the act of Elizabeth was much misinterpreted in common practice. It embraced three classes: first, the idle and profligate, who were to be compelled to work; secondly, the able-bodied, whether married or single, who had no calling, and for whom employment was to be found; and, thirdly, the old, impotent, and lame, and such as were poor, yet unable to work. It never was intended, however, to find provision for those who were strong and able to work, in order to support them in idleness, and as a mere burthen on society. He should conclude his address by moving two resolutions, which he was anxious should be taken into the serious consideration of the committee, which might dispose of them as it pleased: all he wished was to throw out something which appeared to him to be useful. His first resolution would relate to the acts against the exportation of wool. The prohibition on this subject was of the most rigid description: the severest interdiction was put on the exportation of wool or live sheep; yet he believed that the most fanciful speculatist would allow that the penalties, which were a disgrace to the statute book, could not promote any of the best interests of the country. There was one act in particular still to be found in the books, which gentlemen would hardly believe to be possible. By a sta- tute of Elizabeth, any person convicted of exporting wool was liable to a year's imprisonment, and to have his left hand cut off, and nailed up in the most conspicuous part of the nearest market-town. He would not say that any great advantage would arise from the exportation of wool, but the honour of the country required that those prohibitions should be repealed. He did not ask for prohibition protections, or monopolies to protect this or that manufacture or produce: all he wanted was a free and open market for all useful commodities. He was anxious, therefore, that all the laws, primary and secondary, as to the exportation of wool, its carriage coast-wise, and its internal transmission, should be repealed: that, at least, Englishmen might enjoy a free, open trade in their own staple commodity. The next subject to which he should direct the attention of the House, was, the growth of tobacco. He saw no reason why this country might not compete with Holland at least, or even with Maryland or Virginia. He could not show from direct facts, but he could argue from the evidence of fair inference, that the cultivation of tobacco might reasonably be expected to flourish very much in this country. He had looked to the preambles of the several acts which prohibited the cultivation of this plant, and they furnished him with good indirect proof. The first act passed on this subject was the 12th of Charles 2nd, which took notice of the growth of tobacco here; but for the encouragement of the colonies imposed a duty of 40s. a rod on all tobacco grown here. In a few years a second act was passed, which mentioned the great increase of cultivation of this article, and imposed a fine of 10l. per rod; then came the 22d of Charles 2nd, which imposed a still higher penalty in consequence of the increased cultivation. From all this, it was a fair ground of inference, that tobacco would grow in this country. But a recent fact would prove it further. In 1782 the penalties imposed on one farm in Yorkshire alone, for the growth of tobacco, were no less than 36,000l. The tobacco plantation was indeed destroyed, but it was pretty plainly proved that the soil at least was favourable to its cultivation. From these circumstances he thought that there could be no reasonable doubt of the success of such a mode of cultivation, nor did the ground of prohibition on account of the colonies of Virginia and Maryland now exist. Perhaps it was not the least recommendation of this plant, that the culture of it was thought a good preparative for the growth of wheat. He would merely say, that tobacco, if grown, might be very fairly considered as an object of taxation. He should therefore now submit for the deliberation and disposal of the committee his two resolutions:—

1st. "That it would be expedient to allow the exportation of wool duty free; and also that wool should be conveyed internally or coast-ways in such a manner as the persons concerned in such conveyance thought fit.—2nd. That the cultivation of tobacco should be permitted under such, regulations and restrictions as may be deemed consistent with the interest of the revenue."

The chairman suggested, that the resolutions should be brought forward at some subsequent stage of the proceedings, as there was already a resolution before the committee not yet disposed of.

acquiesced, and withdrew his resolutions for the present.

then suggested, that as it was now a late hour, and as the House had sat very late on the preceding night, and were likely to be occupied to a late hour the next night, it would be better to adjourn the debate. He should, therefore, with the leave of the House, move that the chairman report progress, and ask leave to sit again.

This was accordingly done. The orders of the day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at twelve o'clock.