presented a Petition from several prisoners confined in Cold Bath Fields prison; setting forth, " That the petitioners having been summarily convicted of taking illegal insurance in the lottery, were severally sentenced to the punishment of imprisonment, under which they are now suffering; and that they feel convinced, that if their respective cases were investigated, most demonstrative proofs would appear of their innocence, and that their convictions were obtained by wilful and cor rupt perjury; and praying for relief." The hon. gentleman stated, that convictions for this offence were often awarded against respectable persons on the testimony of common informers, who received five pounds as the reward of their perjury. He alluded to various cases of peculiar hardship, and detailed the circumstance of one, where an innocent and respectable individual had been deprived of his liberty and his character, and had been sent to the house of correction on the evidence of a low woman, who lived by falsehood and perjury. He expressed his conviction that several of the present petitioners were innocent of the offence for which they suffered; and said, he could particularly make such a statement with regard to two of them.

said, that had he needed an additional incitement to persevere in his intention of bringing the whole subject of lotteries before the House, he should have found it in the circumstances of the present application. He therefore rose again to pledge himself to come forward soon with a motion on the subject.

The petition was ordered to lie on the table.

rose to call the attention of the House to the late appointment of sir Thomas Thompson, a member of the House, to the office of treasurer of Greenwich Hospital. It was expressly provided by act of the 6th of queen Anne, c. 7, that any member of the House who received an office of profit or emolument from the Crown, should immediately vacate his seat. In the same act, it was declared, that any military officer serving in the army or navy, receiving a new commission in the army or navy, should not be obliged to vacate his seat. Unless, therefore, the House were of opinion that the treasurership of Greenwich Hospital was a commission in the army or navy, they must decide that sir Thomas Thompson ought, in consequence of his appointment to that office, to vacate his seat, as they had no discretion whatever on this subject. Even if there had been precedents of members retaining their seats after an appointment to the office in question, which there were not, the House, because they had judged erroneously in one instance, were not bound to judge erroneously in all others. It was to be observed, that in all the early cases immediately after the passing the act, the House did not require the governors of garrisons to vacate their seats. In so doing, he was inclined to think they did wrong; but as the appointment was in the form of commission, and signed by the King and secretary of war, and as it was paid from the military establishment, it might be, in some degree, considered as a military commission. In the case of the appointment of governors to Greenwich Hospital, there were instances of members of that House who had not vacated their seats. But with respect to the office of treasurer of Greenwich Hospital, it had been specially determined by the House in 1736, that captain Baker, on his appointment to it, should vacate his seat. This was the first time that the House had had the question before them since 1736. The hon. gentleman concluded with moving, "That the appointment of treasurer of Greenwich Hospital, is not a commission in the army or navy."

said, it could not be pretended that the treasurership of Greenwich Hospital was a military or naval commission; and if the question were to come before them now for the first time, he should be inclined to vote for the vacating a seat in the House. The House having, however, in a number of analogous cases, come to a different determination, he did not see how they could with propriety depart now from these precedents; the most convenient way of getting rid of the subject would, therefore, be by moving the previous question. There were a number of instances of governors of Greenwich Hospital retaining their seat after their appointment: and the office of treasurer in no degree varied from that of governor in so far as it had any relation to a military commission. It was impossible, however, that either of the appointments could be conferred on any but naval men; and after the first step in the army or navy, all collateral appointments might, by a liberal interpretation of the act of parliament be considered as included under the exception in favour of new commissions. This was not a question as to eligibility to a seat in the House; it was a matter which rested in the discretion of parliament; and as the governor of the hospital was not compelled to vacate his seat, by analogy he thought that the treasurer should not be so compelled.

His own opinion was, that sir Thomas Thompson had not vacated his seat, therefore he should move the previous question.

said, he differed altogether from the view which the hon. member for Corfe Castle had taken of the subject. He deprecated the new and dangerous doctrine that had been broached by the hon. member, of permitting the House to exercise a dispensing power, and explain the act according to its own wishes. The act was precise; it said, that the seat of a member should be vacated on accepting a place of emolument, or one held at pleasure, excepting from its operation officers of the navy or army receiving new commissions in the regular line of their professions. But, was the office of treasurer of Greenwich-hospital in the regular line of the naval profession? The office had been often held by civil persons, and might now, but for a local rule, which rendered the appointment of a naval person necessary. He hoped that the hon. mover would press the question, for he was convinced that the House would not so far forget its duty, as to sanction the principles which the hon. member for Corfe Castle seemed anxious to establish.

declared, that he never saw a clearer case than the present, and was astonished that the hon. member who moved the amendment should call upon the House to decide in the teeth of an act of parliament, and of a precedent which applied exactly. Who were entitled to decide with regard to the meaning of the act? Was it the people whose representatives they were, or the House itself, which might be supposed to have an interest in giving it a construction favourable to the appointment to office of individuals from among them? The object of the act was to check the influence of the crown in that House, by sending members back to their constituents when they accepted office, and the House ought not to dispense with its observance. What made the case still stronger was, that this was an office held during pleasure.

confessed, that he considered the case precisely in the same point of view as his hon. friend, the member for Corfe-castle. The analogy was so very close between the office of governor of the hospital and of treasurer, that he could not see any difference between them, and consequently whatever principle had been established respecting the one, should hold with regard to the other.

said, he had never heard more extraordinary arguments than those used by the hon. member for Corfe Castle. The question was this, whether the acceptance of a certain office by a member of that House should necessarily vacate his seat? The act of parliament distinctly stated in what cases such should be the consequence, and what were the exceptions. The only exception was in favour of naval and military officers. But was the treasurer of Greenwich-hospital one? Neither one nor the other; and this was so clear, that the hon. member sat out with saying, that he could not directly negative the motion, and was, therefore, compelled to propose the previous question. The case did not come within the exception of the act. If, then, it came neither within the rule nor the exception, on what ground could the House refuse to vacate the seat?—upon analogy; for it seemed that members did not vacate their seats by accepting the office of governor of the hospital. Now on this point no question had ever been raised; but the hon. member had said, that as the governors of the hospital had been allowed to sit, the House should not now order a new writ to be issued to render the practice uniform. But in reality the case had been already decided, so that to refuse the writ would be to act in direct opposition to the law and the decision of the House; and thus the hon. gentleman, with his accurate and logical mind, argued, that because in a case where no question was raised, seats were not vacated, the House should now, to render its practice uniform, not vacate a seat in a case by no means analogous, and in which a contrary decision had been already pronounced! The question, in fact, no longer remained for argument—it was already decided, and the House were now called upon to depart from the letter of the law, and established precedent. And what was their inducement? Was it in favour of the subject's liberty? No. Was it to support the privileges of the House? No. But they were desired to depart from the law and practice, to arrogate the supremacy of their own will above the act of the combined legislature—to wander capriciously from prescribed rules—to establish a claim favourable to their individual interests, but prejudicial to the general rights of the public—and all this to preserve a fanciful analogy to a case which, in the opinion of the hon. member was in itself incorrect, and which, if it came then for the first time before him, he would decide differently.

conceived that the appointment was naval; but even if it could not be strictly brought within that denomination, the general principle on which the House had hitherto acted, was to relax the severity of the law in favour of professional advancement. The hon. gentleman, becuase he perceived a sort of colour of distinction between the present case and others which had occurred, had expressed himself as if he had made out a triumphant statement. But the general policy of the law was obvious. It was this, that where the patronage of the Crown was professional, or collateral with professional duties (as the office of treasurer of Greenwich-hospital was now more than ever it was), there the provisions of the law should not be construed to extend. Unless the House were willing to deviate from a rule of practice which had existed for fifty or sixty years—unless they thought they were compelled to act on a principle, which he did not consider a wise one, that of interfering with officers placed in situations not strictly held on military grounds—the argument of the hon. gentleman could not be received as good. In his opinion, the House ought not to endeavour to lessen the advantages which were held out to professional men. Those individuals were not certainly overpaid for their exertions. There were certain offices the appointment to which was undoubtedly beneficial to them. But they would cease to be beneficial, if they were coupled with such disqualifications as the hon. gentleman contemplated. His motion, if carried would have the effect of sending the individual back to his constituents. The hon. gentleman might think that this would be no disadvantage, and, in one point of view, it certainly would not; for he was sure sir Thomas Thompson would be sent back to parliament triumphantly. But it ought to be recollected, that considerable expense would be incurred by the proceeding. On the general principle of the case, he saw no just grounds for the motion, and, should, therefore, vote for the previous question.

said, that the noble lord had opposed the motion on two grounds: first, that this appointment was in the nature of a naval appointment, which statement was not borne out either by argument or precedent; and next, that, according to the practice of the last fifty years, this was an office, the appointment to which did not render it necessary to vacate a seat in that House. The noble lord had quoted one instance in support of his argument, but, unfortunately, it made directly against him. That which ought to decide the question was, however, the law, as contained in the act of parliament. The act was intended to guard against any influence which the Crown might endeavour to create, by bestowing offices on members of that House. What feeling ought the House to adopt on this occasion? If only a doubt were entertained, that the present case came within the meaning of the act—and, in his opinion, there could be no doubt whatever on the subject—he conceived the hon. member ought to be sent back to his constituents. The House ought to incline to that which the law was enacted to protect, and acting in conformity with the statute, to send the hon. member back to his constituents, for them to inquire into the propriety or impropriety of re-electing him.

in reply, observed, that no person could fairly argue this to be a case which was included in the act of parliament. The noble lord said, it was not an express infraction of the law. Good God! were they to hear it gravely stated, in the House of Commons, that they were, when they pleased, to be guilty of infractions of the law, no matter how trifling. The noble lord had stated the case of the surveyor-general of the ordnance, as one that bore out his assertion. But, if he had read the precedents, he would have found that the surveyor-general did vacate his seat in 1784. One surveyor-general did not so vacate—and he mentioned the case merely to show how litte attention was paid by parliament to transactions of this nature—to prove how possible it was for a member to take a situation without vacating his seat—no person troubling himself about the occurrence, or thinking of the necessity of moving for a new writ. Captain Barclay, however, the individual who succeeded to the situation of surveyor-general, did vacate his seat. The controller of the navy had uniformly been a naval officer. Now, if the House said, that the governor of Greenwich-hospital should not vacate his seat, because he also was an officer in the navy, the same species of argument might be applied to the controller. If the House thought proper on this occasion to decide against the motion, in the teeth of the law, of reason, and of precedent, they were at liberty to do so. He certainly would make no further motion on the subject.

The House then divided:

rose to make his promised motion, that a select committee be appointed to inquire into the expediency of restoring the Cash Payments of the Bank of England, and the safest and most advantageous means of effecting it. The hon. and learned gentleman began by observing, that it was a matter of great convenience that he had been enabled to bring forward the proposition which he had then to submit to the House before the bill for continuing the restriction act, came under discussion; because it was his opinion, as it had been that of many gentlemen in the House, that when it was proposed to renew the restriction on the bank payments for two years, that their attention should be called in detail, and on a specific motion, to the reasons why this restriction should be continued under the present circumstances; and on what principles, or under what motives, it was adopted as a permanent part of our peace system of finance. The surprise which he had felt when he heard of the proposition to renew the restriction on cash payments in time of peace, had been generally felt throughout the House and the country; because if any thing could be collected from the former declarations of ministers, and from the enactments themselves, it was this—that at the end of the war the system adopted in time of war should be abandoned, and that we should revert to that state of law and practice, on which alone any secure system of finance could be founded, The proposal to renew the bank restriction, for so long a period as two years, had had this effect—that he doubted the sincerity of the professions which had been all along made by ministers, of their desire to effect the renewal of the cash payments [Hear, hear!]. The professions of the ministers had always been, that at the termination of the war the restriction should cease. Yet now, after the enjoyment of peace in reality, for nearly twelve months, and six months after the ratification of the definitive treaty, the House was called on as a matter of course, to continue the restriction, not for such a short period as would enable the bank to make arrangements for the renewal of their payments, but for a period of two years. This they were requested to do, without any one step being taken to facilitate the resumption of cash payments. Looking, therefore, to the manner in which his right hon. friend, the chancellor of the exchequer, had proposed the measure, he entertained very great doubts of the professions of ministers. But, if he felt a doubt with respect to ministers, no doubt whatever existed in his mind with respect to the bank of England. Were they not told, year after year, until they scarcely could hear the declaration with gravity, by gentlemen connected with the bank, that their not resuming their cash payments was all a matter of compulsion—that it was against their system—that nothing was so painful to their feelings, as their being prevented from paying their notes, of every denomination, in gold and silver? He always thought, if it were a measure of compulsion, that never was resistance so weak as that which was opposed to it by the bank [Hear, hear!]. And he was of opinion, that if they were really desirous to renew, as soon as government would permit them, their payments in silver and gold, they had given, under the resistance which ministers opposed to their wishes, an example of the passive grace of fortitude which never had been exceeded [A laugh]. Therefore, from this day forth he should think, whatever professions that body might please to make, that they would be very well contented to enjoy all those vast and almost incalculable profits which grew out of the adoption of this measure [Hear, hear!]. For, from the trammels created by it, arose a subserviency in the government to the bank, which rendered ministers incapable of fairly going into the money market. He would not go farther into this subject, because it had already been ably discussed by an hon. member (Mr. Grenfell), whose luminous statement, founded on the most authentic documents, was on record upon their journals, and showed such an example of rapacity on the part of a corporate body, and of acquiescence on the part of a government, as stood unrivalled in the financial history of any country in Europe [Hear, hear!]. He believed, that his right hon. friend, the chancellor of the exchequer, had no settled system of opinions at all on this subject. He had a sort of notion, that if cash payments could be resumed, without altering his plan of finance, it would be as well if things were restored to their old order. But sooner than attempt this reform, he thought it was better to rub over this year and the next year, and to make up, by the assistance of the bank, any defalcations that might arise in the finances of the country, however exorbitantly he was to pay for the accommodation. He had no doubt, from the renewal of this measure, being for two years, that it was intimately connected with the financial arrangements of his right hon. friend. His right hon. friend said, that his plans and the renewal of the restriction were coincident in point of time, and had no other connexion. But any man who recollected what took place at the meeting of the bank proprietors, would form a different opinion. Early in the year, when the first bargain was about to be entered into, the proprietors were told, that ministers meant to renew the bank restriction act. Why was this statement made, unless to induce the proprietors to agree, with a better grace, to the loan which was demanded of them? But what other effect had the information which was given on this subject? When it was afterwards stated that the bill was introduced, there was an immense and an immediate rise in the price of bank stock. It was said, that the bank had no interest in the renewal of the restrictions. If that were so, it was strange that the most ignorant person in the market should at once perceive that his property would be benefitted by it, and that, therefore, it was advisable for him to speculate. He believed, on the occasion to which he alluded, that bank stock rose about 18 per cent. The proposal to renew the bank restriction act for two years was a most extraordinary measure, when compared with the extension of it at a former period. It was known with what trembling anxiety, in 1797, six weeks and six weeks had been added to the term of the act; and with what caution in 1802, the government, suspecting the peace of that year to be precarious, had proposed short extensions of the restriction. Even after the principle (a mischievous and fatal principle he conceived it to be) of making the restriction a war measure had been adopted, it had always been determined that it should cease six months after the conclusion of a general peace. And last year, when surely the peace did not present such a prospect of duration as at present, it was only extended to a fixed day—the 5th of July—in the following session. But now it was to be extended two years, without any reason, unless it was to be understood as the price of the loan which the bank was to advance. The question of the restriction had of late been put on a new ground, by connecting it with the agricultural distresses. But, if the bank restriction was to be grounded on the agricultural distresses, why was it to be continued for two years? Was not every one more and more convinced every day, that the distress would be a temporary evil? Why, then, was not the restriction of a short duration?—Only with a view to the bargain between the bank and the treasury. He knew this would not be avowed; bat he would put it to all who were anxious for the security of the country, or desirous of preserving their own property, whether, after they had considered the circumstances he had explained, they could imagine, that this measure had nothing to do with the bargain entered into between government and the bank? Would they vote for inquiry this evening, or give their assistance to a measure, the true object of which was not avowed, and the only reason for proposing which, he conceived he had stated? On what ground did his right hon. friend mean to call on them to accede to these restrictions? And how did he mean to defend himself from the charge of not having taken any steps to compel the resumption of cash payments? These were points on which the House was ignorant, but on which it ought to be informed. And here he wished to correct an error which had been unjustly imputed to him and to those gentlemen who coincided with him in opinion. It was said, that they wished the cash payments to be immediately resumed. They never harboured such a sentiment. They always stated that it could not be done, without precautionary measures; but they conceived that no time should be lost in giving the country full assurance that payments would be renewed, and in taking speedy measures that this might be done with safety. The measures which had been successively proposed to parliament, were to put off, not only the cash payments, but the consideration of the means of again bringing them about.

He would ask the House did they not feel some anxiety on this head? Had they felt no evils from the long suspension of cash payments? Were they sensible of no evils after all that had passed in the course of the discussions of the agricultural distress, during which no one had been hardy enough to deny that a great evil had arisen from the sudden destruction of the artificial prices [Hear, hear!]? Would any man say that there had not been a great change in the value of money? What this was owing to might be disputed; but, for his own part, he had not the least doubt. From inquiries which he had made, and from the accounts on the table, he was convinced that a greater and more sudden reduction of the circulating medium had never taken place in any country than had taken place since the peace in this country, with the exception of those reductions which had happened in France after the Mississippi scheme, and after the destruction of the assignats. He should not go into the question how this reduction had been effected, though it was a very curious one, and abounded in illustrations of the principles which had been so much disputed in that House. The reduction of the currency had originated in the previous fall of the prices of agricultural produce. This fall had produced a destruction of the country bank paper to an extent which would not have been thought possible without more ruin than had ensued. The bank of England had also reduced its issues; as appeared by the accounts recently presented. The average amount of their currency was not, during the last year, more than between twenty-five and twenty-six millions; while two years ago it had been nearer twenty-nine millions, and at one time even amounted to thirty-one millions. But without looking to the diminution of the bank of England paper, the reduction of the country paper was enough to account for the fall which had taken place.

Another evil which had resulted from the state of the currency, which he had foreseen and predicted, but which had been deemed visionary, was, that during the war we had borrowed money, which was then of small value: and we were now obliged to pay it at a high value. This was the most formidable evil which threatened our finances, and though he bad too high an opinion of the resources of the country, and of the wisdom of the government, to despair, he was appalled when he considered the immense amount of the interest of the debt contracted in that artificial currency, compared with the produce of the taxes. These were the two grand inconveniencies which had resulted; and it was to be remembered, that the great difference during the former discussions on these subjects, was not so much in the theoretical as in the practical question. The late minister, Mr. Perceval, who had no general principle on the subject, thought that to revert to cash payments in time of war would be so difficult that it was not worth the hazard. But he (Mr. Horner) though he thought that the renewal of the cash payments was a matter which required caution and preparation, thought that the true policy was to meet the difficulty at once, and that it was a fallacy pregnant with evil to suppose that any lasting benefit could be derived from so factitious a state of the currency. The event had decided the question. But, turning from these results, and looking forward to the operation of this restriction in time of peace, it would be found to leave us without any known or certain standard of money to regulate the transactions, not only between the public and its creditors, but between individuals. The currency which was to prevail was not only uncertain but cruel and unjust in its operation—at one time, upon those whose income was fixed in money, and to all creditors—at another time, when by some accident it was diminished in amount, to all debtors. Was not this an evil sufficient to attract the attention of a wise, a benevolent, and a prudent government? If they looked at the agricultural interest, was not a fluctuation of prices the greatest of evils to the farmer? For supposing prices were fixed and steady, it was indifferent to him what was the standard? As long as we had no standard—no fixed value of money—but it was suffered to rise and fall like the quicksilver in the barometer, no man could conduct his property with any security, or depend upon any sure and certain profit [Hear, hear!]. Persons who were aware of the importance of this subject must be surely anxious to know whether there were any imperative reasons for continuing the present system, to know whether it was intended to revert to the old system, and if not now, when that system would be reverted to, and what would be the best means for bringing about that measure. This was the object for which he proposed to appoint the com mittee, that the House might know something of the true state of the case before they plunged headlong into the system of the chancellor of the exchequer. He hoped they should hear the opinion of his right hon. friend, and learn from him on what grounds the bill was now proposed, and what were the circumstances under which they might revert to cash payments [Hear, hear!]. If he looked at the professions of former times, he was at a loss to know how to apply them. The reasons for continuing the restriction had been said to be our great foreign expenditure, the necessity of importing corn, the high price of the precious metals, and the unfavourable state of the exchange. These subjects had created much controversy, which he should not now renew, but which he did not shrink from, and which he thought it probable he might have an opportunity again to discuss; for, if the present system were persisted in, the exchange and the price of gold would be very unsatisfactory to the bank and the chancellor of the exchequer. The opinions which he had formerly given had received a strong and unexpected confirmation by late events; but he had already modified the opinion which he had formerly given as to the price of gold. When, by the depreciation of the currency, gold was permanently separated from paper, it was subject to all the variations in price of any other article of merchandise. On this subject it was to be remarked, that in the last year, a year of peace, gold, though lower than it had previously been, was never below 4l.8s., which was equal to the whole of the alleged depreciation; but now that the country banks had called in their paper, it had fallen nearly to, and would soon be quite as low as the mint price. Let not the right hon. gentleman flatter himself that if the bank of England were to issue their notes to that extent, which they were likely to do upon the enactment of his bill, the country banks would not return to their former practice, and the rate of prices be affected by that practice. The House should therefore be prepared for such consequences, and in due time consider how to provide against them. To afford an opportunity for that consideration was the object of his motion, and he hoped the House would see the propriety of acceding to it. The high price of bullion, the rate of exchange, the importation of foreign grain, and the amount of our foreign payments, which were on a former occasion pleaded as reasons for the restriction of cash payments by the bank, could not now be urged; because those reasons no longer existed. Therefore his right hon. friend, who urged those reasons on the occasion alluded to, was called upon in consistency to support the present motion, in order to ascertain how it became necessary, after the cessation of those reasons, to continue the restriction. For himself, he could not conceive, after those reasons had ceased to exist, the measure could be justified. He had heard of publications, copies of which were pretty widely circulated, and the object of which was to show, that if bank notes were issued in the same abundance as they formerly were, prices would again rise, and the farmers be consequently benefited; that this therefore would be a good thing for the country, and that grain might probably again rise to 100s. a quarter. But he (Mr. H.) could not suppose the right hon. gentleman prepared to support his measure upon such grounds; or that he would be an advocate for the issue of bank notes, with a view to raise the price of grain. For if the right hon. gentleman would do so, he must become the advocate of one of the most monstrous projects that had' ever been imagined. Projects somewhat similar had no doubt been brought forward and tried during the regency in France, and about the same time in this country, but the result proved their fallacy. Both governments were, however, in these cases, the dupes of projectors. But if his right hon. friend should press such a project as that to which he had alluded, he would not be the dupe—but the fallacious projector himself. This course, however, he could not suppose the right hon. gentleman prepared to pursue.

In what he had said, he did not wish it to be understood that his object was to have cash payments resumed immediately, but that steps should be immediately taken with a view to that resumption—that the bank should set about it—that the directors should prepare for the resumption—that indeed both government and the bank should set about measures to relieve the right hon. gentleman from the dilemma in which he was placed by the removal of those causes which he had formerly assigned to justify this restriction. He would not specify any time within which this restriction should be removed—he would not even mention two years—but he could not help thinking that it was the duty of government and the bank at once to set about the means of accomplishing that object which the public had a right to expect. Necessity was the only reason ever urged in justification of this restriction; and when the necessity ceased, the country naturally expected that the restriction should cease also.

The hon. and learned gentleman here proceeded to discuss the second branch of his motion; namely, the best means by which the bank might be enabled to resume its payments in cash. He had, he said, already observed, that he would not specify any time at which that resumption should take place, but he felt it highly desirable that measures should be taken with a view to that resumption. For instance, he thought it should be enacted that the bank should gradually pay its several notes according to their value. Thus as the Restriction Act was to expire in July, it might be provided that the bank should pay all notes of 1l. within six months; afterwards, its 2l. notes within the next six months; its 5l. notes within the succeeding six months; and all its notes above 5l. after that period. By such an arrangement, the bank would be guarded against the consequences of any sudden change, while the just claims and expectations of the public would be gratified. But before the committee which he proposed, this subject might be fully considered, after an examination of witnesses, including the directors of the bank and others, competent to afford every necessary information.

Another subject, which would properly come under the consideration of such a committee, would be the state of our metallic currency. He had heard that it was in the contemplation of government to have a new silver coinage, with a view to relieve the country from that sort of bad English, and still worse French silver, with which it was at present inundated. This silver was indeed so very base, that it would probably be better for the country to have no currency at all, than be subject to suffer by such a circulating medium. But in considering this subject it would be very material to ascertain whether the new silver coinage should be according to the old standard, or whether any new standard should be established. For if the system of paper currency were to be restored to the rate at which, it some time since prevailed, it might be inconve nient and unjust to re-establish the old mint standard of silver; for by such reestablishment, government, as well as individuals who sent silver to the mint for coinage, would be very likely to suffer a considerable loss. It was idle to expect that good money and bad would circulate together. The mint might be constantly at work; but not for the benefit of the public—its new coinage might be poured into circulation, but it would not continue in circulation. It would, if some regulation with respect, to our standard did not take place, immediately vanish, and the expense would be incurred in vain. The hon. and learned gentleman said, he had now come to an end of the two objects of his motion—the expediency of resuming cash payments, and the properest method of doing this. He hoped that the House would make some inquiry on the subject: he did not ask them to adopt his opinions, but at least to make some inquiry, and not to pass on as a matter of course. If the House did grant what the chancellor of the exchequer proposed, they would in fact pass a bill to continue the restriction for ever. He must be an idle dreamer who could suppose, after what had passed, that the chancellor of the exchequer or the bank directors ever meant to resume cash payments at all. If, then, this bill were sanctioned, as a matter of course, they made the system permanent. They set their seal to it and must answer to the country for the consequences. The hon. and learned gentleman then moved, "That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the expediency of restoring the Cash Payments of the bank of England, and the safest and most advantageous means of effecting it."

believed, that the difference in opinion and intention between himself and the hon. and learned gentleman, was far less than the hon. and learned gentleman supposed: but in one point, indeed, he most decidedly differed from the hon. and learned gentleman; namely, that by prolonging the restrictions for two years more, it was intended to continue them for ever. Now the bullion committee were themselves of opinion, that cash payments could not be resumed in less than two years after the return of peace; and the hon. and learned gentleman did not contend for any specific time, but only contended that preparatory steps should immediately be taken. He (the chancellor of the exche quer) should not object to any preparatory measures; and these, in fact, had been taken by an act passed long ago, which enabled the bank to prepare the way for a more general payment. The only danger was, the expense that might accrue to the bank from a general and immediate payment—an expense which might exhaust their treasures, and drive them again to call for protection from parliament, or lead to embarrassments in the commercial circles. Those evils would be avoided by waiting till there was a considerable quantity of coin in circulation—till the public appetite was, he would not say satisfied, but, stayed by some supply: the object of the act he had mentioned was, to make such issues as this. By the 37th Geo. 3, c. 91, it was declared lawful for the governor and company of the bank of England to issue cash for any notes under the value of 5l., giving notice thereof to the Speaker, and in the London Gazette. This was not a mere form and pretence, for the bank had acted on it to a great extent. Within twelve months after the restrictions were imposed, notice was given, and fractional sums under 5l., paid in the whole, amounting to a sum of great magnitude. There were other preparatory measures which might be adopted. One important modification would be, to extend to the bank, after the resumption of cash payments, permission to issue notes under 5l. The notes under 5l. had been a long time the substitutes of the ordinary circulation; and it would be for the wisdom of parliament to consider, whether they would continue or put a stop to this system, which, on the whole, he considered salutary. The banks of Scotland, for instance, had been in the habit of supplying the circulation of that country with notes of this description, and no ill effects had resulted from the measure: it was for the wisdom of parliament, however, to decide on the propriety of this, after an experience of some years, and after due deliberation. Another measure he should suggest was, for some time after the resumption of cash payments, to afford to the notes of the bank of England the protection of being received in government payments. The notes of the bank of England did not exceed half the revenue of the country; and, by making them a legal tender in government payments, we had the means of protecting the bank to a considerable extent. Preparations such as these he certainly thought advisable; but the hon. and learned gentleman could not show any grounds on which a shorter period than two years would be advisable for the resumption of cash payments. Even if he (the chancellor of the exchequer) thought that a period of two years was rather more than what was absolutely necessary, yet, connecting the situation of the bank with that of the country, he felt a strong conviction that no evil could ensue from the restriction being prolonged for that time, more especially when he considered the inconvenience of an opposite course. The hon. and learned gentleman had formerly insisted much on the depreciation of the present paper currency, but in no part of the world were those notes now of less value than the sum which they represented: at Hamburgh they were worth more—in Ireland more. The hon. and learned gentleman had contended, that a considerable part of the distress of the country was owing to prices having been forced up by a fictitious currency. Now, the fact was, that the prices were not raised by the currency, but the state of the currency, was the effect of high prices: the rise in prices preceded the augmented state of the currency; and circumstances had shown that a reduction of the amount of the circulation was not the cause of the fall of prices, as the notes of the bank of England continued undiminished. It was indeed true, that when prices began rapidly to fall in consequence of the apprehension excited by importation, the country banks drew in their advances, and thereby both increased the alarm and produced a scarcity of the circulating medium, so that the farmers could no longer form a demand in the markets as usual. These circumstances also proved that paper currency could not be extended beyond what the circulation required. If any gentleman would look at the periods when the variations in the price of gold took place, he would find them unconnected with the price of grain. At the beginning of 1813, wheat was at 120s. 7d.; in the end of the same year it was 82s. 4d.: but the price of gold in the beginning of that year was 5l. 6s. 6d. an ounce, and in the end of the year 5l. 10s. To the eternal credit of this country, the bank restriction, though perhaps it might have forced up the price of gold, had proved the delivery of Europe, by enabling us to carry on a system which could not otherwise have been supported. However, the advantages derived from this measure would be very dearly obtained by bankruptcy and distress; and he should be as sorry as any man to see a stagnation of trade in the country. He agreed with the hon. and learned gentleman in condemning the opinions of those who would raise the prices of commodities by an issue of fictitious money; but he wished to restore public credit, and to give such a circulation as might prevent any alarm in the country. The period at which the present bank Restriction Act would expire was next July. The hon. and learned gentleman himself did not wish that cash payments should be resumed all at once; perhaps a period of one year might, on some accounts, be deemed more satisfactory than two; but two years were more likely to clear us of all difficulties, and had more the appearance of a decisive and final measure; for annual bills were frequently continued for a century together. The bullion committee had recommended a period of two years from the return of peace, and all he requested was a term of two years and seven months. The hon. and learned gentleman said that the peace might be antedated to last July; but our forces were in full number till the ratification of peace, and it was not till December last that exchanges reached par. Till they were at par, or in our favour, no influx of specie could take place. It was evident, that all these circumstances were more favourable than could have been expected; the effect of peace had been to restore favourable exchanges, and a corresponding rate in the price of bullion. He felt fortified in the measures proposed, by the opinion of some of the most eminent members of the bullion committee; though he had no wish to renew that discussion, for the accounts had been laid on the table, and were open to every member's inspection. The hon. and learned gentleman had suggested preparatory measures; but these would be unnecessary, because they had already been provided by the act which had been mentioned: but there were some others which parliament would probably adopt. Where, then, he would ask, would be the advantage of any further inquiry? The whole ease was already sufficiently understood, and all possible information had been afforded to the House. There was only one new point which could be ascertained, and that was one which parliament had never thought it proper to inquire into, the actual state of the treasury of the bank of England. It could not be contended that any danger existed of nonpayment in the end, for the accounts were regularly brought before the House. The restoration of the old currency must be effected by a gradual change; for the bank would be exposed to be called upon when payments were resumed, not only for what was required by the circulation of England, but the demands of the banks of Scotland and Ireland must be thrown into the scale; unless, however, the present favourable circumstances should change altogether, he had no doubt whatever of the absolute resumption of cash payments at the end of two years.

declared, he never had heard a case more ably stated than that of his hon. and learned friend, or more feebly answered than by the right hon. gentleman. He fully concurred with his hon. and learned friend, that if the right hon. gentleman's bill were adopted, the resumption of cash payments would never take place while the people submitted to the restriction. But the impolicy and danger of continuing the restriction, must be obvious upon due consideration. All that was wanted was, that some inquiry should be gone into, some pledge given, to show the bank that parliament was not playing fast and loose, but that it was their determination to have cash payments resumed, allowing a reasonable time for preparation. That was all that his hon. and learned friend required. They had been told that the financial operations of ministers had nothing to do with those restrictions, and they were told also that the restrictions themselves were of no advantage to the bank, or at least, that the bank did not desire them. Now, under what circumstances was it that the restrictions were originally imposed?—from the necessity, created by the financial operations of the chancellor of the exchequer of that period, of doing something for its security. If honourable gentlemen would take the trouble of examining into what passed at that time between the government and the bank, they would find that the bank made a representation, stating that the demands upon it, by the chancellor of the exchequer, were so great, that the establishment was not safe. Upon that ground it was that the bank stopped its cash payments, on the authority of the council. And when towards the close of the year 1797, the bank expected to resume cash payments, and declared their ability so to do, what course had they adopted with this view? They had reduced to the lowest possible pitch their advances to government. Now, what was the plan proposed by the right hon. gentleman preparatory to the resumption of cash payments by the bank? He built his whole system of finance for the year upon borrowing from the bank, and at the same time he brought in the present bill, thus connecting the two circumstances together by that operation, connected as they ever must be in their own nature. He did that very thing which prevented the bank from resuming cash payments, and yet desired the House to believe that it was only a temporary measure. He had little doubt, however, that it would prove a settled system, by which to carry on the financial operations of the country, through the medium of accommodations from the bank. The system itself was not only a most absurd one, but it had produced the most serious inconveniencies to the country, for the price of every commodity had kept pace, to a certain degree, with the varying price of gold and silver. If the present measure were adopted, what would be our situation at the expiration of the two years? when in time of profound peace, the price of gold would be the same, the paper currency depreciated to the same extent as formerly, and consequently the resumption of cash payments by the bank impossible. He certainly thought a very strong ground had been laid for inquiry, and he trusted the House would not reject the motion of his hon. and learned friend.

said, that the House and the country at present laboured under the grievous disappointment of finding their expectations deceived, of the resumption of-cash payments by the bank, at the expiration of six months after the signature of a definitive treaty of peace. With respect to the bill, proposed by the right hon. gentleman, he had read its provisions with extreme surprise, for the preamble recited that it was expedient that the bank should pay in specie as speedily as possible, and yet the enacting clause declared the this payment ought to be deferred two years longer. What were the points of expediency as applicable to it? Was the price of bullion as high now as it had been? Quite the reverse. It was well known that a large quantity of specie had found its way into this country. He, as a merchant, knew the fact; and it had also hap pened to him individually, that a Considerable quantity of foreign specie had been sent to him, which, from the depreciation of its value, he had sent back to his correspondent, as a less loss was sustained, even by the expense of double freightage, than would have been incurred by selling it here [Hear, hear!]. Then, as to foreign exchanges, how did they stand? They were in our favour in every part of the world. With respect to the bank, it was said that they made no objections to the resumption of their cash payments. On the contrary, they protested against not being allowed to establish their credit upon the same basis as it had heretofore stood, and upon which it always ought to stand. What other causes, then, could be alleged? Was there to be a loan?—No. The chancellor of the exchequer had expressly said, that there was not the slightest connexion between the continuance of the restrictions and his dealings with the bank. He was glad to hear that statement; for if there had been any such connexion, he should have no hesitation in saying, that it was one of the most usurious bargains which any Jew broker ever made with any heedless, spendthrift minor [Hear, and a laugh]. What possible argument, then, could be urged to prevent the resumption of cash payments? The consequences of the present bill would be most grievous to the country. All that distress and difficulty, that revulsion, he might almost say convulsion, which the country had undergone during the last year, would be renewed whenever the bank should be compelled (and a time must surely come when it would be compelled)—to resume its payments in cash. The restrictions he considered as a great and powerful engine in the hands of ministers, to alter and modify the property of the country at their discretion; but such a power they ought not to possess, and he wished to see the necromancer's wand broken and thrown into the red sea. The only way, in his opinion, of compelling the bank to resume their payments, would be by making it their interest to do so. The act was originally passed to rescue the bank from the consequences of its own improvidence; and what had they done since? The average annual issue of their notes, in the four years preceding the passing of that act, was about 11,000,000l. It was now about 27,000,000l., producing an annual profit of 800,000l. He thought it would be a wise course, when the bill went into the committee, to propose the insertion of a clause for the bank to pay 50,000l. a year, or any given sum, to the public, until they did resume their cash payments; and he trusted that some such amendment would be adopted.

said, he wished to add his protest against the dangerous system involved in the principle of the bill. He thought a strong and unanswerable case had been made out for inquiry. He had on many occasions watched with the utmost anxiety to collect, if possible, from the right hon. the chancellor of the exchequer, his real opinions upon the nature of the connexion with the bank, but hitherto it had been in vain. He could not, even after the speech which the right hon. gentleman had that night delivered, see thoroughly what course he proposed to himself that was consistent with good faith and sincerity. The right hon. gentleman said, indeed, that he thought it highly desirable the bank should return to cash payments, but he did not seem to say it with that confidence as if he really believed himself. There were many reasons which led him to think, that the right hon. gentleman did not sincerely believe that at the end of two years the bank would be one jot nearer to the resumption of cash payments. If the bank were left to itself, its interest was so diametrically opposite to a resumption of cash payments, that it was utterly childish to expect from it a voluntary proceeding of that kind. The House must take upon itself to make it compulsory; for all other measures would be nugatory. There could be no doubt that the late distresses had been greatly aggravated by the subduction which had taken place from the currency. It was important to consider, too, how this fluctuation of value affected our finances. We had borrowed 200 millions in a depreciated currency, and this sum, it should be recollected, must be one day paid in a currency restored to its legitimate value at an immense loss to the public. The appointment of a committee was, he thought, indispensably necessary; and after a due investigation, the House could then point out the preparatory mode by which the object might be ultimately accomplished.

said, that the only question for the House to consider with reference to the continuance of the restriction act was this—what measures were necessary to conduct the circulation of the country into its natural and healthy state, from that into which it had got by the operation of that train of causes superinduced by the war, in which the country had so long been involved, and the very unusual way in which that war had been carried on? Certainly, in considering this question, it was natural that the views of hon. gentlemen should be tinctured with those opinions which they had formed upon the subject, at a time when the circumstances connected with it were very different from those which now operated. This had accordingly taken place; for it was impossible not to discover that the inferences and arguments of the hon. gentlemen on the other side of the House were drawn and formed from the opinions which they had long ago entertained. These opinions he had always opposed; because he thought, that the situation of the country required a very different course to be adopted from that which they recommended: and he was now quite sure, that instead of a war vigorously carried on and gloriously terminated, if the other measures had been adopted, the results would have been quite the reverse. One hon. gentleman opposite had said, that he dreaded the renewal of the restriction act now; because it would become so much ingrafted upon our financial system, that its renewal would be thought a matter of course and a necessary accompaniment to any future war in which this country might be engaged. But he would desire that hon. gentleman to dismiss such a fear from his mind: for it could not be expected that the country would ever again be involved in a war attended with such extraordinary circumstances as those which had rendered it a measure of necessity during the late war. It was not his wish to touch upon the old question so long agitated upon this subject, but he could not refrain from saying, that if gold had been contitinued as the only standard of our currency during the late long and eventful war, we should soon have been left without any standard at all; and by the preservation of such a standard the prices of articles and the measure of their value would have been infinitely more changed than it had been; it would have been distorted in such a way that the country could scarcely ever have recovered from it. In comparing the merits of different systems of circulation, he agreed that the precious metals formed the best, with such a mixture of paper circulation, as the state of credit might allow. But as to the circulation of a country, placed in the extraordinary circumstances in which Great Britain was during the late war, the case was a completely special one, and not to be treated on merely general principles. If an attempt had been made to keep up cash payments from the bank of England during the war, the inevitable result would have been the complete destruction of the banking system. In fact, no plan could have been adopted so steady in its operation—so little liable to objection, under the circumstances of accumulating and increasing industry in the country, and its situation with relation to foreign nations. But the war was now happily concluded, and the operation of these extraordinary causes, which had compelled the adoption of extraordinary measures, was fast diminishing. Considering our present situation then, we must look forward to the speedy resumption of payments in specie by the bank of England. Now he would say, that the bank was more interested than even the country in wishing the resumption of cash payments. It was, however, absolutely necessary that the country should have completely recovered from those effects of the war, under which it still, in some degree, laboured, before it could be at all safe to allow cash payments to be resumed. During the intermediate space which must now take place, it would be expedient to act upon a permissive system in order to prepare the way for the entire abolition of the act of restriction. It was absolutely necessary with a view to the interests of the country, that a considerable period should elapse before the bank could be permitted,—he would not say undertake—to resume its payments in specie. Even that committee which some years ago had come to a resolution against the continuance of the restriction act, when they advised its discontinuance, determined that the period of two years from the time of this decision should be fixed as that at the expiration of which the act should cease. It was quite clear, that the time had not now arrived when these payments could be renewed. Already the price of silver had been much reduced, and his lordship was persuaded, that in a few months gold would be equally plentiful; and he was confident that the directors of the bank would not be so base, or so negligent of their interests, as not to commence payments in cash: the directors had no mo tive to act otherwise than was most consistent with the public convenience, and would scorn to fill their pockets by deriving unfair advantages, and deceiving parliament. He did indeed allow that circumstances were now disclosing themselves with respect to the price of silver, which must speedily be expected to take place also with respect to gold. The price of silver was now so low, that if it were not for the act of parliament preventing it, the metal would be carried to the mint by individuals to be coined, as being a more profitable way of disposing of it than selling it at the market price. When the price of gold, by the state of exchange, fell equally low in proportion, then, in fact, though not in law, cash payments would be resumed, and without the repeal or discontinuance of the restriction act, or any compulsion on the bank to pay in specie. There would be this intermediate principle of compulsion in the resumption of cash payments (before it was made compulsory on the bank) by individuals finding it their interest when the price of gold fell sufficiently low, to carry their gold to the mint to be coined, as a more profitable way to dispose of it, than by selling it at the market price. When gold fell so low as to produce this effect, the mint would coin free of expense, which would induce individuals to have their gold; and thus, independently of the bank, the circulation would become metallic. When by these means a substraction of metallic currency was supplied, he should then think that the resumption of cash payments by the bank might be made compulsory without any injury to its credit. But until this inter mediate principle of compulsion, which he had mentioned took place—until it became a matter of profit for individuals to bring their ingots of gold to the mint to be coined, the restriction act could not be wisely discontinued. It was the interest of the bank to accelerate the time when this should take place. Great inconvenience and distress had arisen to country bankers, from the uncertainty how to regulate their operations with reference to the time when the restriction act was to cease. These inconveniencies would be now totally obviated by fixing the period of two years. On a view of the whole subject, he did not feel any ground for instituting the inquiry which was moved for; because it was quite evident that the period of two years, which had been fixed upon, was sufficient to bring matters to such a situation, that the continuance of the restriction act would, at the expiration of that period, be unnecessary.

observed, that the noble lord, in his usual style of eloquence, a style peculiar no doubt to himself, but at all times unintelligible to the House, had talked of "an intermediate principle of compulsion" [Hear, hear! and a laugh]. His not understanding the noble lord arose, probably from the sublimity of style to which the noble lord uniformly aspired, but which was unfortunately inaccessible to any individual but the noble lord himself [A laugh]. He wished to know what these words meant?

begged the right hon. baronet to recollect that he had explained those words to mean, that principle by which a metallic currency would be forced to appear, by the low price of gold, without before forcing the bank to resume its payments in specie.

proceeded. Now he had the pleasure for once to understand the noble lord; but would it not have been better for him at first to have spoken in a manner fit to meet the comprehension of all, than to have clothed his meaning in language totally devoid of common sense? The noble lord had next asserted that the directors would not be so base as not to pay in gold as soon as possible; but he forgot that every one of them took an oath to make all the profit he could for the benefit of the proprietors. What hope, then, was there, if the public were left to the tender mercy of the directors, that they would ever withdraw their notes? And if the time to be allowed were placed at the discretion of the noble lord, the issue of specie would only be contemporaneous with the termination of his political career. If time were given, what security had the country that the bank would employ it in preparation? The plan of the noble lord was either at the end of two years all cash payments should be commenced, or that at that period the bank of England should begin a gradual issue of specie; so that the mind of the noble lord did not seem at all made up; but, in both alternatives, more especially the last, he contemplated a permanent peace of many years. It was quit clear, and the country could not fail to perceive it, that the opinion of the noble lord, whatever it was, was dictated by convenience: it originated in that intimate and most injurious connexion subsisting between government and the directors of the bank of England, which put to hazard the best interests of the country, which compelled the payment of interest by the nation for the use of its own money, and which accounted for the civility, not to say servility, of the chancellor of the exchequer to the directors. It prevented that officer of the public from looking dangers in the face which he had not courage to meet; and enabled him, by temporary supplies, to satisfy immediate necessities, by which those dangers were increased, and by which the nation might ultimately be brought to absolute ruin. He protested warmly against the continuance for two years in time of peace of a bill originally resorted to from six weeks to six weeks in time of war.

observed, that after the lapse of two years the country would be able, with tolerable certainty, to expect a return to the old and wholesome state of currency. Whatever might be the opinion of others, he could bear witness that it was the most anxious wish of the directors to return to the cash payments restricted in 1797. It was, however, fit, in the first instance, to use many precautions; for the question did not merely relate to the bank of England, but to the whole system of the country formed upon the paper currency. He denied that the directors took any such oath as that mentioned by the right hon. baronet; they were left entirely to their discretion as to the best means of promoting the interest of the concern. He then referred to the amount of bank notes in circulation at different periods, to show that they had little influence upon the value of commodities, and to the gradual reduction in the price of gold, to prove that it was affected by external circumstances, and not by the issue of paper. The measure ought not to be considered as one applying only to the bank of England, but as a measure in which the general interests of the empire were concerned, as it allowed them two years for doing so, within less than which time it could not with certainty take place. If they withdrew their paper, and were laid under the necessity of paying in specie sooner, the greatest inconvenience to trade would be the result. He thought, therefore, that there should be no compulsion on the bank to alter the state of the currency till circumstances enabled them to do so without danger or embarrassment. The whole should be left to the discretion, of the bank, and he had no doubt that the directors would take such steps as would gradually enable them to accomplish the desirable object of a return to cash payments. Caution, was, however necessary.

begged to say a few words in reply to what had fallen from the hon. director. He was anxious that nothing he might advance should be construed into any mark of disrespect to the body of directors, personally considered. The hon. director had accused his right hon. friend of mistaking the nature of the oath taken by the governor and directors of the bank. His right hon. friend had not mistaken the nature of that oath, so far as it bound them to consult the interests of the body of proprietors, for whom they acted as trustees: but if they were not bound by oath, certain he was that they were bound by honour to make the greatest profits they could for the interests intrusted to their management. The motion before the House had for its first object the appointment of a committee of inquiry into the propriety of resuming cash payments speedily. If the House did not express strongly its opinion on this subject, he believed the bank would take no steps to restore the metallic circulation. He was confirmed in this idea from some expressions in the speech of the noble lord. According to him, we were to consider our relation to the other nations of Europe, and the aspect of the whole political world, before we compelled a return to cash payments. If we were to do this, he had no doubt that pretence would always be found for delay, and that the period of seeing the renewal of the former circulation of the country would never arrive. The second object of the motion was, after due inquiry, to fix a period beyond which the present restrictions would not subsist, and the bank would be obliged to pay their notes in specie. If the House rejected this motion, the restrictions on the bank would, he was convinced, remain in perpetuity.

said, he felt as much as any member of the House how necessary it was, for the security of property and the equitable adjustment of mercantile transactions, that the country should return to cash payments. There was no other mode of preventing fluctuation of prices, inconveniences in trade, losses in exchange, and general suspicion and convulsion, at intervals, in the best interests of the nation, but by returning to the rules of our former currency. Entertaining this opinion, he was as great an enemy as any man to the restriction act in itself. He had opposed the resolutions of the present chancellor of the exchequer in 1810, because he thought them erroneous and impolitic. The right hon. gentleman had restated his former opinions on the security of a paper circulation when issued voluntarily, and he differed with him now as much as ever. Paper could not suffer depreciation, he thought, if taken voluntarily, or given on good security. When he stated this opinion, the right hon. gentleman had surely forgotten that a great part of the paper issues were compulsory. It was issued in payment of the public creditor to the amount of forty millions annually, and the public creditor was thus compelled to receive it, unless the right hon. gentleman meant, by a voluntary acceptance, that those to whom it was offered might either take it, or want their dividends. Adverting to the oath of the directors to consult the interests of the proprietors, he allowed its general obligation, but denied that it bound them to take unfair advantages of the public, or to persevere in a system which would be ultimately ruinous. The bank directors and proprietors themselves, as their fortunes consisted in money, and were measured by money, would be the greatest sufferers by its depreciation. Accordingly, every minister who had entered into transactions with the bank would give the body of directors credit for not wishing to issue an excessive amount of paper. Returning to the argument of the right hon. gentleman, that no paper currency could be excessive that was voluntary, he thought that it refuted itself, as it would lead to the absurd conclusion, that quantity had no tendency to reduce value, and that the same sum of money was of equal value when it bore a great or a small proportion to the objects for which it was to be exchanged. So far was he from agreeing with the right hon. gentleman in this respect, that he believed depreciation must necessarily be caused by excessive issues, whether voluntary or involuntary; and that there was no mode of attaining stability and security in our money transactions but by returning to a medium of exchange at once universal and exportable. The real questions before the House, however, were, whether we should return to cash payments soon, and what was the best mode of ascertaining the point? He was con vinced that two years were necessary to enable the bank to supply specie in sufficient quantity for the circulation of the country. This was a period fixed upon in the report of the bullion committee drawn up by his hon. and learned friend who brought forward the present motion, and he saw no reason why it should now be shortened. He was of opinion that the House should intrust the whole to the discretion of the bank, and depend upon its zeal, and its desire of answering the expectations of the country, so conformable with its own interests. The expectation and the opinion of parliament were too plainly expressed in the preamble of the bill to be either mistaken or neglected.

acknowledged that the preamble of the bill expressed it to be a desirable thing that cash payments should be again returned to; but the bill itself contained no compulsory clause to that purport. After the expiration of the two years, the same arguments might be again repeated for a prolongation of the term of returning to our former circulation, which the House had that night heard. The bank had hitherto taken no steps to fulfil the expectations of the country; and what reason was there for believing that they would now do it? July was the period when the restriction act would expire; and, as they had made no preparations for such an event, what ground had he for believing that in two years after this we should find them more willing, or more prepared, to afford us the precious metals in lieu of their promissory notes? If this bill was to pass, he would be bound to consider it as equivalent to an act for the perpetual suspension of cash payments in this country.

trusted that he should obtain credit with the House for feeling a desire to see cash payments resumed. The only thing, indeed, about which members appeared to differ, was the most eligible mode of attaining what all united in wishing to see accomplished. There had grown out of our present circulation some inconveniences and many advantages. Our industry, our enterprise, and the improvement of our agricultural and commercial resources had increased under it to a surprising degree; but we had suffered from it and other causes a revulsion that had been productive of much temporary distress. When the bullion committee finished its labours, the late Mr. Perceval had endeavoured to show that no change could take place in the state of the currency during the season of war and pressure. He (Mr. Huskisson) had then expressed opinions which he still retained. Our currency involved inconveniences, but they were more than counterbalanced by the resources which its nature afforded for prosecuting our great national objects. Without it we could not have procured for ourselves, our allies, and posterity, those blessings that the settlement of Europe presented to our view. The hon. and learned gentleman's motion embraced two objects: first, an inquiry into the expediency of resuming cash payments soon; and, secondly, the best mode of effecting them. No inquiry was necessary on the first point. All agreed that there was no security for property, no stability in public credit, no confidence in trade, no mode of adjusting the rights and consulting the interests of all classes of society, without a circulation rendered steady by possessing a permanent and universal value; but, having said this much, we should leave to the bank the task of restoring the use of the precious metals at their own discretion. He was of opinion, that the object would be accomplished in less than two years, though it was proper to allow that space of time for the bank to take such prudent and cautious modes of doing it as they should think best calculated to obtain their end. He denied that this period was too long, or that a great rise of prices was to be dreaded in consequence of the continuance of the restriction while it lasted. If such a result threatened to take place, the House would watch it, and take measures of precaution. Adverting to the character and duties of the governor and directors of the bank, he allowed that they had services to perform to the proprietors, but he likewise contended that they owed honourable conduct to the public. In order to obviate an objection of the noble lord, he wished that in the preamble of the bill there should be introduced a clause declaratory of the expectation of parliament, that at the end of two years the bank should resume its cash payments. An amendment to this effect might be proposed in the committee.

expressed his confident hope, that in the course of the year specie would be circulating in great abundance in this country; founding this opinion on the fact of the great rise of the exchange, within the last four months. He hoped the time was not far distant, when, as in the case which had been supposed by a right hon. gentleman opposite, on a former occasion, every man would have a guinea in his pocket; and it would then be seen what little anxiety there would be for bank notes. He concluded by expressing a hope, that ministers would promote the productive labour of the country, in which, more than in gold, its real wealth consisted.

commenced a luminous reply, by declaring, that in anything which he had advanced on this question, he had meant no personal disrespect to the directors of the bank, or to their organs in that House. He had spoken of them merely collectively as a corporation, and considering them in that capacity, he had no hesitation in repeating, that he put no confidence in their declarations, when they expressed an anxiety for the resumption of cash payments. He would not take up much of the time of the House at that late hour, and therefore would forego the tempting opportunity of exposing the inconsistency of the arguments which had been urged in support of restriction by the right hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Huskisson), who, though he admitted the sound policy of a speedy resumption of cash payments, seemed by his speech to leave that question in the same state which it had been in for some years past. As to what had been said on the subject by the noble lord (Castlereagh), the hon. and learned gentleman expressed his ignorance of its precise tendency. He would therefore, from inability, abstain from following him. The noble lord had thrown out such a mass of language and ideas, and had made such a novel combination of twisted expressions, that it was difficult in the many theories he had urged, to understand that one which applied to the resumption of cash payments, or to the manner in which they might be most speedily effected [Hear, hear!]. It was possible that the noble lord held the thread which would guide him through the labyrinth of theory and phraseology into which he had gone; but as that thread was not visible to him, he would not venture to plunge into the inextricable abyss [Hear, hear!].—The hon. and learned member then took a view of the arguments which had been urged on the other side of the House in favour of restriction, and observed, that if the expediency of the resumption of cash payment at the end of two years, which had been admitted, was put into the bill—if it was made part of the bill that the bank should resume its payments in that time, and that the intermediate period should be spent in making preparatory arrangements for that purpose, he would withdraw his motion, and lend his aid to the forwarding of such arrangements. But he added, that this was not the intention of ministers, and that by the present bill they left the time of resuming cash payments as undefined as it was in 1797. The bank directors had once expressed themselves anxious to attend to the directions of the House; it therefore now became the House, if they sincerely wished for the resumption of cash payments, to give such directions as would most speedily conduce to that object [Hear, hear!]. He had asked of the gentlemen opposite, what were those fortunate circumstances under which cash payments would be more easy than at present? To this question no answer had been given. No one efficient reason had been given why those payments should not now be resumed. Under these circumstances, then, he put it to those members who were present, whether, after all they had heard, they did not conscientiously believe that an inquiry was necessary. If after what had passed they did not vote for inquiry, they must stand to the consequences. The noble lord had talked of the bill being formed on the permissive system. Did he mean by this that the bank would not be precluded from resuming cash payments if they thought proper? What he objected to in the bill was, that, instead of intimating the wish of the House that preparations for resuming cash payments should be made in the interval of two years, during which it was to last, it left these preparations to be made after the expiration of the bill, and thus removed to an indefinite period the resumption of money payments. The inevitable effect of it would be, by prolonging the uncertainty and vacillation of our circulating medium, to subvert all property both public and private. The hon. and learned gentleman concluded his reply, by stating, that if the committee on the bill were pressed that night, he should move some clauses, in consequence of what had fallen from the noble lord.

The House divided:

apologized for bringing forward at that late hour the motion of which he had given notice, and stated that he had been obliged so to do, in consequence of the precipitation with which the Alien Bill was pressed through the House by ministers, although no satisfactory reason had been assigned why this power, extraordinary in time of peace, should be invested in them. It had been said that the act at present in force would expire on the 12th of May; but that could be no argument for the bill, as there were now no foreigners in the country, whose presence ought to be considered dangerous. What he wished to gain by his motion was, to know the number of foreigners who had been sent out of this country at the instance of any foreign minister under the several alien acts. This would show to the House the manner in which this power, which was now sought to be renewed, had hitherto been exercised, and whether it had been in any instances abused. This information, he contended, was necessary, as the House should know, before they granted any such power, whether it would be likely to be abused; and they could only judge of this by seeing how it had hitherto been exercised. The House should also recollect, before they passed this bill, what were the circumstances under which the alien bill was first introduced, and compare them with those of the present time. France was at that period in a state of revolution, when the most dangerous notions of liberty were entertained, and when she was in the habit of sending delegates, who spread those notions to other countries. But the same dangers did not now exist. There were now no persons coming from France, whose presence or opinions could be considered injurious to this country, and therefore there was not the same necessity for the existence of such a law as the alien act. Sir Samuel then contended against the policy of a measure which would exclude alien friends from our shores, for we had now no enemies abroad, and therefore all persons coming to the country should be considered as friends, and should be encouraged as they had been ever since Magna Charta to the present act [Hear!]. He mentioned the high opinion which had ever been entertained by foreigners of the liberty and independence of English law, and particularly those of Montesquieu, and contrasted them with those entertained at the present day. In better times we had uniformly encouraged the oppressed to flee to this country as a place of refuge where they might exercise their industry and their arts. As one instance of the effects of the alien bill and its continuance, he would notice the circumstance of an English nobleman being ordered to withdraw from a neighbouring country, and the example of England was quoted in defence of it. He conceived that this new peace alien bill, as it was called, was designedly in furtherance of that alliance which existed for establishing and forming governments contrary to the will of the people, and thus giving the ministers of those allied powers the means of persecuting every individual who was obnoxious to them, and who ventured to entertain and cherish ideas of liberty. If it should turn out that no persons had been sent out of the country at the request of foreign ambassadors, he should rejoice to hear it; but he suspected the case was very different, and he could conceive no possible objection to a return of them being made. Sir Samuel then moved, "That there be laid before this House, an account of the number of aliens sent out of the country under any of the acts relating to aliens, upon the applications of any foreign minister, distinguishing the numbers in each year."

believed, that, ever since the introduction of the alien bill in 1793, it had been opposed by the hon. and learned gentleman most strenuously; but although that was the opinion of the hon. and learned member, yet parliament had adopted another view of the question, and it had been found consistent with the wisdom of parliament not merely to pass the act of 1793, in consequence of the distressed state of the continent, but, after the peace of Amiens in 1802, and that of Paris in 1814, laws to the same effect had received the sanction of the legislature. He trusted, when the Bill itself came regularly under the consideration of the House, that course would be pursued which had formerly been thought most proper to be adopted; and he had no doubt but that it would be satisfactorily shown that the motives for its enactment were still more pressing than in former times. The precipitancy with which this measure was carried through the House had been exclaimed against. He believed that nearly a week had elapsed since it was first introduced, and the bill had not yet passed its second reading. Dispatch was, however, requisite, because, as the present act expired on the 12th of this month, some inconvenience would certainly result if there was any unnecessary delay. The bill now proposed to be passed was a peace alien bill, in which an additional power was given to individuals to appeal to the privy council. He apprehended that the present motion, if granted, would be bringing the question most unfairly before the House; but he had no hesitation in declaring, on the part of the noble viscount who was engaged in this particular department, that he never had acted from the instigation of any foreign minister. That noble person had never felt himself authorized to act upon any thing but a British policy, and in no other light could it be considered. Upon these grounds, therefore, he felt himself bound to oppose the motion; and he should always think that he should be acting with gross inde cency if any communications made by foreign ministers were disclosed to the House.

begged leave to read the motion to the noble lord, in order that he might know the purport of it; for not one of the objections he had stated lay against the motion, as it did not seek any one of the objects which the noble lord supposed it to seek. He begged of the noble lord to think of some other argument against the motion, for the sake of his friends who were to vote with him.

thought it would be extremely difficult for the hon. gentleman to show to the House that the remarks of the noble lord were irrelevant. It had been stated by an hon. member some time since, that instances were known of aliens having been sent out of the kingdom at the instigation of foreign ministers. This statement he then denied, because he was satisfied the noble secretary of state would never have acted under the guidance of any foreign minister: but, since that time, he had made further inquiry into the subject, and he had been informed by a very respectable individual in the alien office, that to his knowledge there was no instance of an alien having been sent out of the kingdom at the instigation of any foreign minister. The investigation was pursued still further, and he had desired two gentlemen, who had been long employed in the alien office, and one of them ever since its establishment, to refresh their memory with the necessary books and papers. Upon the question being put to them, they both declared to the same effect as others he had consulted on the same question had done. During the last session of parliament an hon. member, now deceased, representing the county of Bedford, had asserted, that certain Portuguese aliens had been sent out of the kingdom in consequence of certain representations from foreign ministers. At that time he was indeed unable fully, to contradict the statement; but subsequently he had ascertained, that the allegation was unfounded. If, therefore, on parliamentary grounds, the motion was persisted in, for the same reason he should continue to resist it, although, in fact, no aliens had been sent out of the country under those circumstances, and the motion would be answered by a return with the expressive monosyllable nil..

really believed that the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Addington) with all his solemnity of expression, was totally unacquainted with what was passing in his own office. He hoped that some better grounds would be stated for resisting the motion than those already mentioned. The noble lord and the right hon. gentleman seemed to differ a little in their statements: the one said it would be improper to reveal the communications made by foreign ministers, admitting, therefore, that they did exist; and the other observed, that the motion, if granted, would be answered by a return of nil, as he termed it. He would have recommended the right hon. gentleman to have consulted, instead of his clerks, the noble lord, his relation, upon the subject, in order to have prevented this unlucky contradiction. With respect to the two Dutch merchants, he could inform the House, having paid particular attention to the subject, that they had come to London merely from commercial motives, but had not been in the city more than a few hours, before a message arrived, desiring their immediate departure; and accordingly they were obliged to leave the country. The next day he personally applied to lord Sidmouth, to inquire into the reasons that had induced his lordship to give these orders; and the answer was, that instructions had come to his office from the secretary of state for the foreign, department, which were so peremptory, that it was impossible for him to evade them [Hear!]. It plainly appeared, therefore, that these orders came through the office of the minister for the home department as a mere matter of form, instead of coming directly from the foreign minister. He happened to find out that his two Dutch friends were sent out of the country in consequence of the application of a foreign minister, and that the whole originated in ignorance and misapprehension.

explained, that his noble relative, the minister for the home department, had stated positively to him, that it was a proceeding wholly unconnected with any representation from any foreign minister.

said, he had acted entirely upon a British policy, putting out of view the policy of any foreign state.

was sorry to observe this important question involved in such inexplicable mystery. It was stated that no aliens had been ordered out of the country at the instance of foreign ministers; and, although communications had been received from those ministers, yet they were ordered from the country by what was called British policy. If no aliens had been sent out of the country by the in stigation of any foreign minister, what grounds could be urged for resisting the motion? On parliamentary grounds that motion had been made, and it did not appear that inconvenience either public or private could arise from the production of the documents.

considered that no sufficient grounds had been urged for bringing forward the motion. If there were any instances, they might involve foreign ministers; and if there were no instances, the motion was unnecessary.

said, he could not consent to withdraw his motion; and he was the more determined to persist in it, when he heard the frivolous reasons assigned for resisting it. His object was, not to make any unnecessary disclosures, but merely to ascertain the number of the persons sent out of the country by the instance of any foreign minister, without any distinction of names or persons. He could not understand what the noble lord meant by British policy. It might be thought an object of British policy to oblige a foreign minister, or a foreign court, by sending persons disagreeable to it out of the country. He knew that individuals were sent off on grounds not at all connected with danger to the country apprehended from them. A cause happened to be referred to his arbitration between two foreigners. One of his majesty's ministers, he would rather not mention his name, as he was now dead, took a strong interest in one of them. In the course of the business, one of them was found to have misconducted himself. The noble lord to whom he had alluded, said that was a person who ought to be sent out of the country under the Alien Bill. He knew that immorality had often been made a pretence for sending persons out of the country. The noble lord had characterised him as a general enemy to alien bills. Now, it so happened, that this was the first time he had spoken on the subject, and he had delivered no opinion with respect to the necessity in former times. But when the noble lord described him as an enemy to it in 1793, he seemed quite to have forgotten himself; for that was thirteen years before he was a member of parliament! This was exactly the fable of the wolf and the lamb. It really was unworthy or the noble lord to seek such a momentary triumph, as that which he could gain by assertions like this.

The House then divided:

gave notice that he should move for the appointment of a select committee to examine and report upon the regulations prevailing in foreign states, respecting the intermission of papal rescripts, and the intercourse of their Roman Catholic subjects with the see of Rome; and also upon the nomination, election, collation, or institution of the episcopal order of their clergy of the Roman communion.

observed, that several orders of the day remained undisposed of. He should be sorry to retard the business of the country; but if it were intended, at so late an hour, to proceed with the committee on the Bank Restriction Bill, he should oppose it by every means in his power. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, that as so large a portion of the night had been devoted to a discussion of the substantive merits of the Bank Restriction Bill, he conceived it might be suffered to go through the committee, but as the right hon. gentleman objected to such a proceeding, he would postpone the committee to Friday.—The House then adjourned at half past two o'clock.