said, he had a Petition whose to present form a class of persons whose sufferings demanded the utmost commiseration, and for whom, notwithstanding the promises which had been made, nothing had been done; he meant the persons imprisoned in the Fleet for contempt of court. These persons, who had had the misfortune to be parties or witnesses in suits in law or chancery, had been imprisoned for not complying with the directions of the court. They were petitioners to the court of chancery, but their petitions remained unheard, and they now prayed for speedy injustice rather than tedious justice. They had followed all the instructions of their lawyers, and were ready to do any thing which the court might order. They had, during the time they had been imprisoned, witnessed the death of six persons similarly situated, one of whom had been imprisoned four, another eighteen, and another thirty-four years. It was with the persons who had high legal situations that the remedy for this evil rested. After the indifference that had been shown to these cases of grievous and disproportionate or unmerited suffering, he almost despaired of a beneficial result; but he had the satisfaction to know that he had done his duty.

Ordered to lie on the table.

, on moving that the committee on this bill be deferred till Monday, took occasion to observe, that some facts had come to his knowledge which proved most strongly the necessity of strictly inquiring into the application of charitable funds, and the inadequacy of any general returns to parliament on this subject. The information was on the authority of a gentleman in Berkshire, a barrister, who was not personally known to him, but who was well known to the members connected with that county. This gentleman stated, that the returns under the act of 1787–8, commonly called Mr. Gilbert's act, had not been faithfully made—that in Berkshire, where he had made inquiries for a work which he was about to publish, the incomes of the charitable funds had been returned as 7,000l. a year, while their real income was 20,000l. a year, of which not more than 5,000l. was expended in the manner directed by the benefactors. Thus three-fourths of the charitable fund were wholly misapplied. In the town of Abingdon alone a return of the donations of twenty-five benefactors had not been given in. He stated also, that of enormous balances in the hands of trustees no notice was taken, nor of the balances due by one set of trustees to another. This statement would show, better than any reasoning, the futility of calling for returns, without a strict local investigation.

rose to make his promised motion on the subject of the Con- tagious Fever which had so long raged in Ireland. In rising upon such an occasion as this, he was spared the difficulties he felt on former occasions, where the subject under consideration was one viewed in different lights by individuals of opposite opinions. He now, on the contrary, was about to touch on a subject which could only, he trusted, elicit one common feeling throughout the House. When they considered that the population so dreadfully affected by this contagious disease covered a space of country containing nineteen millions of English acres, and six millions of inhabitants within the British empire, they would easily admit that the consideration was one or the utmost magnitude, and which called for full investigation and inquiry. Whatever might be the cause or causes of this calamity it would be for a committee to ascertain, and if a remedy could be provided, it would be their bounden duty to apply it to the relief of the sufferers. There were various opinions from different quarters in Ireland as to the causes and progress of the malady—some differed as to the causes, but none as to the character and progress of the disease. One of the opinions on this subject he would not give lest it should be thought he meant to countenance a political allusion on a subject of this nature. He was anxious for the appointment of a select committee, with a view of getting at all the information which the nature of the case admitted. It would be material for them to inquire into the number of patients admitted into the Fever Hospitals, many of which were already constituted when the disease broke forth in an aggravated shape. He felt great pleasure at being the person through whose exertions the first of these hospitals was established in the city which he represented. There were previously two at Manchester and Chester. The calculations of the number of persons admitted into the hospitals of Dublin, for seven months since last September, when the fever was at its height, were striking indeed. In the seven months since September, 10,321 patients had been admitted into: the Broad-street Hospital, the House of Recovery, and the House of Industry, in Dublin. In the city of Cork, during the same period 10,040 had been admitted. This fever was not confined to large cities; for in the small town of Boyle above 300 in five months were infected; and 1,200 in nine months, in a circumference not exceeding five miles from the town. The main object he had in view was to ascertain, in the first instance, the extent of the disease, and to consider of the proper remedy. Another object he had in view was, not merely to afford additional funds to the fever hospitals, but also to secure from dilapidation and injury the benevolent donations of private individuals, and to prevent them from being unnecessarily dissipated, until the legislature could make some competent regulation to control and impose an additional security on their application. He could not, however, disguise his opinion, which he would now fairly and plainly state, that whenever the labours of the committee embraced the whole subject, they would find that want of sufficient employment for the productive labour of the people was the main cause of the evil—to that eternal source, he was satisfied it could be fully and unequivocally traced. And he implored the House to look on the subject in this view, and see if their wisdom could devise any remedy to meet the evil. His first object he had already said was, to provide competent funds for the support of those receptacles already in existence, and to secure their funds from dilapidation. But he hoped, at the same time, that some permanent remedy would be sought for to meet what otherwise must be a permanent evil. It would be of the first importance to inquire whether it would be possible that the labour of six millions of people could be directed so beneficially as to preserve the great majority of them from that state of misery which led to this extent of disease, and perhaps of crime. In calling for this committee, he hoped the House would not adopt the idea that he was about to trespass on any other funds than those of the persons exposed to the influence of the disease. From local funds alone did he expect relief. The Irish government (and he spoke it in gratitude) had gone as far as possible to afford relief, and had executed, in the most honourable manner, the well-warranted discretion vested in them of applying some portion of the public funds to alleviate the miseries which the disease had produced, and to prevent its spreading in the quarters where it raged. As he could not anticipate any opposition to this motion, he would conclude without further remark, by moving, "That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the state of Ireland as to the prevalence of Contagious Fever in that part of the United Kingdom, and to investigate the causes, temporary and permanent, which have led to the increased progress of this destructive malady during the last and present year, and to report the same, with their observations thereupon, to the House; and also to report such measures, remedial and preventive, as may seem most efficacious to arrest its further extension, to guard, as far as human foresight can provide, against its recurrence, and to secure adequate means of support to the establishments destined for the relief of the diseased."

said, that those who recollected the conversation between him and the right hon. baronet on a former evening, would easily imagine that he did not now rise to give any opposition to the motion, but, on the contrary, to perform the more acceptable duty of seconding it, and adding, that so impressed was he with the importance of this question, that he should have felt it his duty to submit it to the consideration of the House, had not the right hon. baronet anticipated this intention. He hoped he should be excused if he pursued the subject farther than the right hon. baronet had done, and entered into the progress of the disease, from the documents which he possibly had alone access to as a whole, from the nature of his official situation. The right hon. baronet had truly said, that in September last, the fever, which though it had previously existed for four or five months, and indeed more or less in a slow shape for some years, assumed a character of serious malignity, so as to call for the attention of government. In the month of September last he had taken measures for receiving from medical gentlemen throughout the country their opinions as to the origin and extent of the disease. He had accordingly received returns from the four provinces, all of which referred the origin of the disease to the same cause. They stated, that the great poverty of the labouring classes, owing to a want of employment, had produced a marked depression of mind. The pressure of scarcity was also most severely felt, and an excessive wet season had deteriorated the quality and reduced the quantity of that species of food, on which the people almost exclusively subsisted, and had prevented them from laying in an adequate supply. The causes, there- fore, of the disease arose from want of employment and the poverty it engendered, from the defective quality and quantity of food, from the wetness of the season, and from want of fuel. Another cause was, the number of wandering beggars who roamed: about the country, and communicated contagion, and the practice of the lower classes, of assembling to attend the funerals of their friends. On such occasions the infectious disease of a few was communicated to the many, and the disorder became violent and general. In looking at these causes it was, if not lamentable, at least affecting, that this contagion should have arisen from the "pen character and feelings of hospitality for which the Irish were so peculiarly remarkable, and from which no sense of fear or apprehension of danger could shake them. No persuasion would induce them to shut their door against the wandering beggar, or refuse to pay the last sad tribute to the remains of their friends and kindred—a tribute which they regarded with peculiar veneration. It reminded him of the description given by Lucretius of the plague at Athens, but there indeed the hospitality of the people yielded to the terrors of the contagion:—

"Nec mos ille sepulturæ remanebat in urbe,

"Quo prius hic populus semper consuerat humari."

In Ireland no fear of contagion—no fear of death—could operate to induce the people to forego the habits and feelings which they cherished He would now refer to the returns at Dublin, showing the mortality which there prevailed. On the 1st of September, there were 218 patients in the fever hospital of Dublin; in the six months following, there were 796; on the 28th of February, there were 1,001, making an increase of 783 in the course of the six preceding months. On the 14th of March last, the number in the hospital was 1,074. The total number of deaths during the six months was 456, and the average calculation of admission was thirty-nine patients per diem, The proportion of deaths to the sick was on the highest average as one to thirteen, and on the lowest as one to nineteen He thought he was not too sanguine when he considered that the calamity had reached its height, and was now rapidly diminishing. Since the 14th of March there had been a very considerable abatement, both as to the extent and the peculiar characteristics of the fever. The grounds on which he hoped that there was now a great abatement were, not only the returns which he had received from various parts of the country, but the documents kept at Dublin, the authenticity of which could not be doubted. The number of patients in Dublin hospital on the 14th of March was, as he had stated, 1074; but on the 14th of April (the present month) it was only 850, being a diminution of 224. The proportion of deaths as compared with the admissions had also diminished. In one hospital the proportion was as low as 1 to 82, though the general average was as 1 to 20. The total number of patients cured and discharged within the last month, in Dublin hospital, was 1829, and the number of deaths was 89. But it was not, only in Dublin that the abatement had taken place. In the north of Ireland the fever was much subdued, and 4n the western districts the decrease was still more considerable. He was in possession of returns from the medical superintendents in the various towns which proved this: but he would not trouble the House with these documents, as it would be more proper to produce them to the committee. It gave him much satisfaction that the right hon. baronet had not framed his motion so as to make it in the first place point to any particular plan for the employment of the poor as a remedy for this calamity. He agreed with him, that a main cause of the evil was this want of employment. But then, he much feared that the removal of this cause was beyond the reach of any measure which the executive government could adopt. It was therefore certainly much wiser, in the present stage at least, to avoid all debate upon that part of the subject. Many proposals had been made for the employment of the poor in public works; and, no doubt, in that way some relief was to be afforded. But then, with a view to the extent of the evil, the utmost that could be done in that way was but little. Other suggestions, of a nature still more objectionable, were continually making to the government, especially by manufacturers, who being distressed by the unfavourable state of the market for the particular sort of goods which they made, applied to government for loans to enable them to carry on their manufactures, and continue in employment the many persons who wrought under them. With applications of this kind was obviously impos- sible to comply. For unless there was a consumption adequate to the supply of the particular species of manufacture, it was quite clear that it would only be aggravating the difficulty by increasing the supply. In short, the difficulties from the various remedies proposed were endless. But this part of the subject would, to a certain extent, fall within the consideration of the committee. He would therefore not trouble the House farther, but content himself with seconding the motion of the right hon. baronet.

agreed with the right hon. baronet who had moved, and with the right hon. gentleman who had seconded the motion. He rose, therefore, not for the purpose of saying any thing on that part of the subject, but in order to suggest that the Fever-hospital in the metropolis should likewise be recommended to the attention of the committee. It was matter equally of surprise and regret, that, in the metropolis of the British empire, there was no fever institution supported by public contribution. This was a subject deserving of the greatest attention. If patients of this description increased as they had done of late, the atmosphere breathed by the most populous parts of the metropolis would become polluted, the disease would get firmly and incurably established, misery and death would extend the most fearful ravages. The effect had often been already, that sick nurses and medical students fell victims to the disease. The rapid increase of contagious fever had some time since given rise to a small institution for its cure. Within the last six months, there were in this institution not less than 700 patients. The annual revenue was not more than 400l. An appeal had lately been made to public benevolence, and between 2 and 3,000l. were collected: but this was hardly sufficient to clear away the debts of the institution. The government had recently given 1,000l. towards defraying the expenses of this institution; but that was a very inadequate grant for the support of fever-hospitals in the metropolis of the country. It was the duty of government, in his opinion, to support, if not to establish an institution of this nature. There were, no doubt, many excellent hospitals, with great funds, in this metropolis, but their regulation and conduct were much inferior to those upon the continent. It could not, indeed, be unknown to any one acquainted with the hospitals at Paris and Vienna, that those of this country were very much inferior: He apologised for trespassing upon the time of the House, but he thought it his duty to call its attention to this subject, and he hoped it would be deemed worthy of investigation. With this view, he wished that the state of the Fever-hospital in London should also form a part of the inquiry of the proposed committee.

agreed with his hon. friend, as to the necessity of inquiry into this subject, and hoped that a greater supply would be granted by government. He could not but persuade himself that, upon inquiry, the necessity of giving a more liberal supply would become quite evident. Public liberality would be extended with more satisfaction, when it was found that no institution was more successful or attended with less inconvenience. He remembered when the prejudice against such institutions was so great as to render any attempt to extend their benefits ineffectual. This prejudice was now happily removed, and no one had contributed more to remove it than the enlightened and humane Dr. Murray. Contagion was most likely to be prevented by the removal of patients from their own habitations to hospitals. The subject was well entitled to the consideration of a committee for itself, and that was the better course. It was the glory of this country that there was no form of human misery for which there was not an asylum, and relief in some shape or other. The higher orders of the country never suffered an appeal to be made in vain to their benevolence; and among the most active promoters of every scheme of humanity and charity, many members of the royal family could be enumerated. He had said thus much, not from national feelings, but to hold out an example to other countries, and to show the world that England was not less distinguished for her opulence than her benevolence.

confirmed the statement of his hon. friend, as to the superior management and conduct of the hospitals upon the continent. But then the expense of these hospitals was defrayed by the government, which, of course, had an arbitrary control over them, while the hospitals of this country were, for by far the most part, maintained by voluntary contributions.

gave an account of the good effects which had resulted from the estab- lishment of fever-hospitals at Manchester, by voluntary subscription. He thought it necessary that government should afford liberal assistance to form a large establishment for the same purpose. With a view to inquiry, he thought it would be much more convenient that a separate committee should be appointed to inquire into the state of the fever in the metropolis.

expressed his regret to find, that the institution in London for the cure of fevers was so inadequately supported by government contribution as well as by public beneficence. The subject was of such importance, that he hoped his hon. friend, the member for Shrewsbury, who had so laudably called the attention of the House to it, would, in the course of the evening, move for the appointment of a distinct committee of inquiry. The fever which raged in London was, it appeared, very seldom fatal to the very poorer orders; but when communicated to those who were better fed, numerous instances of mortality had occurred. It was obviously necessary to provide every possible guard against the propagation of contagion. He was sorry to understand, that every effort to maintain the fever institution by public subscription had failed. But it was the duty of government to erect an establishment of this nature, and he was confident that no objection would be expressed or felt in that House or throughout the country, at any expense that might be incurred in the construction or support of such an establishment. Government, he understood, contributed 1,000l. annually to the assistance of the fever institution; but how came the sum so small, when some years ago betwen 2 and 3,000l. were advanced, at a time when the fever was by no means so dangerous or prevalent? He trusted a committee would be appointed, and that before they made their report to the House, the government would, if the case was found to be urgent, afford such pecuniary aid as should seem proper under the circumstances.

The motion was agreed to, and a committee appointed. On the motion of Mr. Bennet, a committee was also appointed "to examine into the state of Contagious Fever in this metropolis, and into the condition of the Institution for the Cure and Prevention of the same, and report the same, with their observations thereupon, to the House."

said, he had to apologise to the House for having delayed so long to bring this subject before them, but he had not been able to proceed otherwise. He was now only to move for certain West India papers, which would lay the foundation of some farther steps. After the abolition of the direct Slave-trade, the next great object was, the alleviation of the miseries, and the improvement of the condition, of the slaves who had been previously in the West Indies. He could with confidence affirm, that the shutting out of all external supplies of slaves was the surest mode of ameliorating the condition of the slaves who were there. In vain were the best internal regulations adopted, if influxes of fresh slaves supplied the markets, and deranged every attempt at gradual improvement. The morals, the comforts, and the happiness of the internal slaves were sure to be in some measure consulted, if their masters knew of no other supply. It was on this account that he had so strongly approved of the bill introduced by an hon. and learned friend (Mr. Brougham), to whom the cause of the abolition was, on many occasions, so greatly indebted. The act which made the traffic in slaves felony, did great good; but more than this was required. It was necessary to make it so clear, so palpable, so undeniable, that fresh supplies of slaves were not to be obtained; that their masters must look upon it as a thing quite impossible. It was upon this principle that he had two years ago proposed a bill of registration—a measure to which it could not be supposed that he entertained a bigotted attachment, or even a parental feeling, since it was not his own offspring, but that of an hon. and learned friend. He entreated the House, however, to consider whether any other measure was likely to prove so effectual, and whether it was possible to accomplish the end which all now professed to have in view, without guarding in the strictest manner against every variety of evasion. Perhaps it might be thought by some that he felt an unreasonable jealousy on this subject. He was not much disposed to controversy, but when he recollected what had always been the declared sentiments of those on the other side the water, and that not only the general voice in the West India islands, but the opinions of all their historians and legislators had uni- formly been, that no arrangement of naval search could prevent continued importations, he could not regard himself as appearing singular in entertaining his present apprehensions. If he found this opinion now changed in the West Indies, was it not, under all the circumstances, a source of natural suspicion? With respect to the argument, that the prosecution, of the work had better be left to the colonial legislatures, he had not, when it was brought forward, felt so sanguine as many others in his expectations from that quarter. He had, notwithstanding, assented to the propriety of leaving it to them to make the experiment, and of waiting to see the result of their several endeavours. The object of his present motion was, to obtain information as to what had been done in conformity with this arrangement. It might be said, that these proceedings ought still to be left to the voluntary zeal and to the efforts of the affluent and liberal members of the West India body: but it had ever been to him a subject of deep regret and continued disappointment, to see that more enlightened portion of the colonial interest making common cause with classes of a different description. He had always distinguished, in his own mind, these separate orders of that great society; had always ascribed many of the evils he deplored to the absence of the larger proprietors; and had earnestly wished to see them acting and thinking for themselves, in the introduction of reform and gradual amelioration. When, however, it was known, that the recommendations of such men as Mr. Ellis and Mr. Barham had, failed to make any impression on the colonial assemblies, he could place no from independence, except on the legislation of the mother country, and could put his trust in no other guarantee than one which should render the commission of the offence impracticable without detection and punishment. This he thought would be the operation of an act for establishing a registry of slaves in our West India colonies by authority of parliament. The House would see, when the papers for which he intended to move were presented, what had been done; and he hoped they would remember, that it was their duty to watch over the interests of a million and a half of beings who were at length recognised as their fellow-creatures. Their condition and their claims were entitled to the most serious consider- ation, and required the exercise of the utmost attention to the question, whether, it was possible to prevent illicit importation by any other means than the measure he had recommended. He should conclude by suggesting, that our own exertions in this cause, in our negotiations with the other powers of Europe, imposed upon us the additional task, with a view of completing the work in which we had so meritoriously engaged, of preventing, in future, all this improper intercourse between Africa and the West Indies.—The hon. gentleman then moved, "That there be laid before this House, Copies of all Laws passed in or for any British Colonies since the year 1812, and not already presented to this House, respecting the condition and treatment of Slaves, or the prevention of the illicit importation of Slaves; and also respecting the condition of the free coloured Population."

assured the hon. member, that nothing could be more gratifying to his feelings than to promote any measure which had for its object the bettering the condition of the slaves, and the prevention of any farther clandestine importation. He felt what the country already owed to the exertions of that hon. member on this subject, and he assured him, that if he ever had had occasion to differ from him on the subject of illicit importation, it had not arisen from an opposition to his principle, for he admitted fully the right of the British parliament to interfere but from a wish to conciliate all the West India proprietors, and to show them by a mild system how very much it was their interest to adopt measures tending to the same object which the hon. mover had in view. To the measure of a registration he was not hostile, but be believed the object would be best accomplished by first conciliating the good disposition of the colonists to its introduction. It were better, in his judgment, to have a measure less perfect, with the acquiescence and cordial support of those who were to execute it, than a more perfect measure, opposed by their prepossessions against it. He had ever thought that the abolition of the Slave trade must be the first point from which an amelioration in the condition of the slaves must flow. The sense of their own interests would induce the planters to look to the well-being of their slaves. From the ruin in which the planters, during the commercial embarrassments of the last war, were involved, it was actually impossible to pay the attention that was due to that part of their interests, but now that the fortunate change of circumstances promised the most prosperous results, he did believe that the day was not far distant when such a change would take place in the condition of the black population of the colonies as would be most beneficial to them, and highly honourable to the character of this country.

concurred in opinion, that the best means to make the colonies see their own interests in the treatment of the slaves was, to cut off all farther supplies. This had been the practice of every nation where slavery had been carried on, and was afterwards abolished. At the same time he thought that the conduct of the colonists needed not any stimulus at present in the treatment of their slaves. Their conduct praise-worthy as it must be admitted to be, was a direct answer to all the calumnies which had been used against them for so long a period. This would, he had no doubt be made apparent from the perusal of the papers moved for.

thought the hon. gentleman might have spared his reproaches even if they were well founded, at a time when all sides were disposed to congratulate each other on the prospect of success in their endeavours on this subject. In reviewing the conduct of himself and the other abolitionists, who persevered to the accomplishment of that great measure, he never would accept or acknowledge the imputation of having dealt in either inflammatory or calumnious language.

The motion was agreed to.

, before he proposed his next motion, was anxious to state, that he felt as strongly as his hon. friend (Mr. Goulburn), the beneficial effects of having allied to their cause, the good will of the masters of the slaves. But he should not act honestly, if he did not declare his jealousy on that point. He was an old soldier in this warfare. His hon. friend was much younger, and youth was the season of confidence. It was under the influence of experience also, that he received with indifference the imputations of the hon. member to which his hon. friend who spoke last, adverted. Indeed, when he heard such observations advanced in that quarter, he always attributed them to the situation the hon. gentleman held. He could not, however, agree with him, that the supply of foreign negroes was entirely cut off in the West Indies. He believed he could point out instances of recent importation. It was never his opinion that the simple abolition of the Slave trade would afford a sufficient remedy. Neither did he now think that the registration, important and necessary as it was, would wholly remove the abuse. He knew that he had been considered too moderate by many. Indeed, his deceased friend, the late Mr. Dundas, had gone the length of proposing to emancipate all slaves born after the year 1800. This he should have had no objection to, but he thought it more advisable to proceed by the means he had done. He then moved for, "Copies or Extracts of such Accounts as have been received from the said Colonies respectively since 1807, and have not been hitherto laid before this House, showing the increase and decrease of the number of Slaves; and also of the free coloured and white Population; also, the present numbers of the above classes; and as far as the same can be given, the changes in the relative proportion of Males and Females in the Slave Population."

The motion was agreed to; as were also motions for; "Copies or Extracts of all Acts passed in furtherance of the objects of the Address of this House, of June 19, 1816, 'That his Royal Highness would be pleased to recommend, in the strongest manner, to the local authorities in the respective colonies, to carry into effect any measure which may tend to promote the moral and religious improvement, as well as the comfort and happiness of the negroes:' And "Copies of all executive and Judicial Proceedings held in any of the said colonies, connected with, or in furtherance of, the objects of the said Address; together with copies or extracts of all such correspondence relative to the said objects as may be communicated without detriment to the public service."

said, he rose to make the motion of which, a few evenings since, he had given notice, in order that the House might authentically be put in possession of certain information that had come to his knowledge, with respect to the condition of slaves in the West Indies. They had often been told of efforts made by persons in the colonies, for the purpose of ameliorating the condition of the slave population. But of what avail were laws, if they were not carried into effect? He believed his state- ment would clearly prove, that the laws which had been made in the colonial assemblies, for the relief of the slaves, had not been acted upon. It was very possible, that, in the course of the facts he should detail to the House, some inaccuracies might be pointed out; but he hoped he should not, therefore, fall under the censure of the gentlemen opposite, since he had taken the utmost pains to make himself acquainted with the truth. If, therefore, any incorrectnesses were observable, he could conscientiously say, that he was perfectly innocent of willingly promulgating it. He would not on this or any other occasion advance what the hon. gentleman opposite (Mr. Goulburn) denominated inflammatory statements. He should rather under-rate, instead of exaggerating, the information which he had received. There were already some papers before the House, connected with the subject; but he was anxious that all the evidence which could be obtained should be submitted to parliament. The documents to which he alluded he had moved for late in the last session. They were important, but they did not embrace the whole question. He had so worded his motion, for the production of the other papers, as in his opinion, to leave no ground for objecting to it. His motion would be for copies and extracts of certain papers in the office of the secretary of state for the colonial department, leaving it of course, to the proper officer to select such documents, or parts of documents, the production of which would not injure the public service.

He should now proceed to a detail of the facts which induced him to submit this proposition to the House. In the spring of the year 1817, several cases came before the grand jury of Dominica, in which it appeared that great cruelty had been exercised on the persons of slaves, by their masters. The first of them was a case in which John Baptiste Louis Birmingham, doctor of medicine, was charged with having, violently, cruelly, and immoderately scourged and flogged certain slaves, the property of and belonging to the said John Baptiste Louis Birmingham. If the slaves had been guilty of the misdemeanors with which they were charged, they were liable to 39 lashes; but they were not found guilty, and yet, as soon as they were acquitted, they were brought out into the public market-place, and underwent the penalties limited by the law. This bill was thrown out by the grand jury. Another case was that in which John M'Corry, esq. was charged with having, with cords, whips, sticks, and rods, immoderately scourged and flogged his slave, Jemmy, who, it was stated, had been guilty of drunkenness, quarrelling, fighting, neglect of duty, absence from labour, or absence from the plantation, without a written pass. This bill also was thrown out. A third case was (and a most horrible one it was) that of Alexander le Guay, of the said island, planter, who was charged with having assaulted his female slave, named Jeanton, and that he did confine the said Jeanton in an iron chain, by affixing and fastening the same with padlocks in and upon the neck, arms, and legs, of the said Jeanton, such punishment not being prescribed in and by a certain act of that island in such case made and provided; and it was farther charged, that the said Alexander le Guay maimed, defaced, mutilated, and cruelly tortured the said Jeanton, by fracturing, and causing to be fractured, her arm. This bill likewise was thrown out. But not contented with this, the grand jury thought fit to declare, that these several indictments were nothing more nor less than nuisances. Their words, as appeared by the return made to the House, were these: "The grand jury have farther to present the dangerous consequences which are likely to occur from the number of indictments for unmerited punishments inflicted on negroes by their owners, managers, or employers, which have been laid before them this day, unsupported by any evidence whatsoever; on the contrary, it appeared from the evidence, that in some of the cases the negroes merited the punishment they received." This presentment was dated Dominica, grand jury room, the 4th day of February, 1817: and was signed by John Gordon, foreman. In consequence of these proceedings, the attorney-general (W. W. Glanville) had thought it expedient to have recourse to informations, ex-officio, considering it not right to trust to grand juries again. [Hear, hear!]

The House had heard the nature of the offences with which the parties was charged, but, in each case the persons were acquitted. Now it were well known that, in England, the information of an attorney-general was regarded as an odious measure; but it appeared that, in Dominica, the attorney-general deemed it an expedient measure for the protection of the black population of the island. He was sure that the House could not but be sensible of the necessity of affording the greatest encouragement to the government of these islands to take the slaves under their protection. The laws were beneficent—but what availed the laws, when the unhappy slaves could not avail themselves of them? Neither the slave, nor his family, nor friends, could obtain any redress against the cruelties of his master. The slave was cruelly treated, and the public sympathized with the master. It was the duty of the government to protect the laws, and, without that protection, no security could be afforded. He was disposed to speak kindly of the West-Indian legislatures; but he would ask again, to what purpose were such laws enacted, if they were not observed? There was a general concurrence in opinion in the West India islands, that nothing was more improper than to interfere between master and slave: it was thought to have a tendency to excite a disposition on the part of the slaves to revolt. This, he believed, was the general impression; but he should be glad to find that he was mistaken. The object of his motion was, to confine the inquiry to the island of Dominica; and he was sure that such an opinion prevailed there. In the island of Dominica, there was a species of punishment called "the public chain;" and, if any master thought that his slave had offended, he had a right to send him to that punishment. Men, boys, and even girls of the most tender age, had been subjected to this mode of torture; and the governor found that he could not interfere. The governor, willing to alleviate the sufferings of these wretched people, consulted the attorney-general, who gave an opinion, that he had no right to remit the punishment awarded by the master. It appeared that, in the island of St. Domingo, the slaves were liable to be sent to the public chain, and from a work which he then held in his hand, the cruelties inflicted by this kind of punishment were described as follows: "The slave who has been found guilty of any misdemeanor shall be put into the workhouse, where his labours are much harder than in the usual course of employment; he is employed to dig, and to perform other difficult duties, with a chain fixed about his body, and attached to other culprits, leaving him merely room to walk, whilst he is driven on to work by cattle whips, and other modes of castigation." [Hear, hear!] In this view of the case, it was most important to observe, that the king has the power of mitigating all sentences of punishment in this country, except those which are founded on an impeachment by the Commons; but, in the island of Dominica, the prerogative is limited by the power of the masters. [Hear, hear!] If the evils that existed in the administration of the laws in the colonies could be remedied, it was right that that should be done as soon as possible. If it were possible that there could be any check given to grand juries and to petty juries in Dominica, it was proper that that should be given. He confessed that he was not able himself to suggest any remedy, and he was disposed to think that no remedy could be procured but by the interference of the British legislature, and by their imposing a duty upon persons in the island, unconnected with the island, having no local tie to it, and comparatively without interest in it, to cause them to maintain the laws. The only effective remedy, in his opinion, would be that which had been recommended by Mr. Burke to Mr. Dundas, and published in his posthumous works, which was, to constitute the attorney-general in every island guardian of the slaves, to make it an essential part of his duty to interpose between the master and the slave when there should be a necessity. By such a regulation, it would become their duty to see that the slaves were properly treated.

There was another thing which he thought necessary, though he did not say that it would be resorted to, he only thought it his duty to mention it, and that was, the legislation of this country for the colonies. The idea of that had excited great discontent. It had been said, that this country had not properly the power of legislating for her colonies. It was needless for him to state, that that had been already done in numerous instances. He might only mention, that it had been done in the act by which colonial property was made liable as assets for debt. He might refer to that series of political controversy that had taken place during the American war. It had, been said, that England could not legislate for her colonies on the very principles of her own constitution, and that they Ought to enjoy that Constitution. Taking the: matter, however, seriously into consideration, no man could for a moment imagine that the constitution could immediately apply to any of these colonies. The constitution should be taken in every part; it should be taken as a whole. It held that all men stood in a state, of equality; that all men stood equal by the law; and that was talked of where it could not possibly exist. The moment an individual set his foot upon the British shore, he became as free as any other individual. But what could be more inconsistent than the conduct of those who talked of establishing that principle in the West India islands? The constitution would be then reversed and destroyed. What was recommended would be under the auspices of British liberty, rendering slavery worse than under the most arbitrary government. Arbitrary governments, indeed, did make laws for their colonies. But as to the principle, that no man could be bound by laws to which he had not consented, could be applied to islands so situated, no man could imagine any thing more absurd.

He should now call the attention of the House for a few moments to another subject. The laws passed in Dominica, no long time since, for the purpose of encouraging the manumission of slaves, had not been attended to. A slave born on the island was obliged to pay 16l. 10s. for his manumission, and those not born on it were obliged to pay 35l. A man of colour, though a freeman of another island, became, by law, a slave, if he did not pay a tax immediately on his arrival at Dominica The law by which this was enacted was passed in June, 1810 It stated, that "No person of colour, coming from another island or colony, is entitled to his freedom, unless he produce a certificate and pay a certain tax." This was the enactment of those who talked of the British constitution. A slave once landed on the British coast became a freeman; but a free man of colour, it appeared, the instant he touched the soil of Dominica, became a slave. By another law, any slave who came to the island, if not claimed by his master within a certain time, was sold for the benefit of the public. The whole of these laws were founded on a principle diametrically opposite to that which formed the basis of the British constitution. Since the Abolition act had passed, every temptation should have been given to manumission, instead of obstacles being thrown in its way. For though no person could entertain the idea of freeing all the slaves in the West Indies, yet the time might come, however distant, when there would be no slavery there. That event would most safely be produced by gradual manumission, by education, by improving the situation of the slaves, and encouraging marriages among them. The whole spirit of the laws he had quoted was completely contrary to this: they went to render the state of slavery perpetual. With respect to those laws, which looked so well on paper, which appeared so well calculated to benefit the slave population, they not only were not executed, but were never intended to be carried into effect. On this point, the observation contained in a dispatch from governor Prevost to marquis Camden, written in January, 1805, afforded very strong evidence. Governor Prevost there says—"The act for encouraging the better government of slaves lately passed in Dominica, appears to have been considered, from the day it was passed till this hour, as a political measure, to prevent the interference of the mother country in the management of the slaves." The facts which he had stated were, he conceived, an extremely clear illustration of this statement. But it should be recollected, that, though those unfortunate beings were the slaves of their masters, they were also the subjects of the king. They owed him allegiance, and would be as severely punished as any other men, nay, more so, if they were to violate that allegiance. The king was bound to afford protection to them: they were as much subjects as Englishmen were.

He would not take up the time of the House, but should merely observe shortly upon facts that had taken place on another island; and let it be observed, that he should only state those facts to show the general feeling. It had been said, that cases might be cited of great enormity, and by that means imputations might be thrown upon a whole community. It was by no means his intention to estimate the British or any other character from cases of particular cruelty, but he should mention the case on which he was about to enter, merely for the purpose of showing what was the general feeling on such subjects. In that case, the same Mr. Huggins who had formerly been the subject of conversation was materially concerned; that person was still, he believed, a man of considerable opulence and in- fluence in the island of Nevis. He had been before brought to trial for cruelty to slaves of his own, and there had been a general opinion against him. He had been lately brought to trial for cruelty towards the slaves of another. A Mr. Cottle had left him his attorney when he left the island. The case was, that he whipped two boys very severely who were charged with theft; they were two very young lads who had been accused of receiving a pair of stockings that had been stolen. They were stated to be very young, and not to have suffered any punishment before. Huggins ordered them to have each 100 lashes. Where there was a law it should be observed, 39 lashes was the utmost punishment of the kind that was permitted; but Huggins, as Mr. Cottle's attorney, by his own authority, sentenced the boy to receive 100 lashes each, and they did receive them. He related the facts from notes taken on the trial, on the accuracy of which he believed he could depend. There were present at the infliction of the punishment two female slaves; one was the sister of one of the boys, and the other a relation of one of the lads, who had been treated with great kindness by Mr. Cottle. For no other offence than their having shed tears, he ordered them, the one SO lashes, and the other 20. Huggins was brought to trial by the senior king's counsel, exercising the duties of attorney-general. The facts were established; he was acquitted; and it was thought a most odious interposition on the part of the attorney-general. If such a prejudice existed against interference between the master and the slave, he thought it ought as soon as possible to be destroyed. The opinion of the attorney-general, to which reference had been made on the subject, he should take the liberty of reading. The hon. and learned gentleman then read the opinion, the substance of which was, that the governor could not pardon a slave who had been condemned to labour by his master for any offence, to be assured of which it was only necessary to examine the definition of slavery. The opinion then defined slavery, and showed from the definition that a slave could have no civil rights, but was the exclusive property of his master, equally transferrable with any other possession—Sir Samuel concluded with moving, for "Copies or Extracts from all Dispatches, Letters, and Papers, in the Office of his Majesty's Principal Secre- tary of State for the Colonial Department, which in any manner relate to the Cases of John Baptiste Louis Binningham, Alexander Le Guay, and John M'Corry, against whom bills of indictment were preferred by his majesty's attorney general for the island of Dominica, and to the Presentment made by the Grand Jury of the same island on the 4th day of February, 1817, and to any Presentment made by the Grand Jury at Dominica at any subsequent period, which in any manner relate to the power of the owners of slaves in the same island to send their slaves to be kept to hard labour in the public chain, and to the right which the governor may have, by virtue of the royal prerogative, to remit the punishment of slaves so condemned by their masters to be kept to hard labour." Also, "Copies or Extracts from all Dispatches, Letters, and Papers, in the Office of his Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for the Colonial Department, which in any manner relate to the Case of Edward Huggins the elder, tried in the island of Nevis, in May last, for Cruelty to certain Slaves under his charge."

said, that as on the one hand, it would not be supposed that he should give credit to accusations without complete evidence, so, on the other hand, he could not be expected to stand up in his place to defend cases of the deep hue which the hon. and learned gentleman had made the subject of his speech. It would not be expected by that House, or by any individual in it, that he should defend persons, either the principals in, or accessory to, acts such as had been described. All he wished was, that, in considering the subject, the House would guard against forming any opinion till they heard the other side of the question. He might appeal to the hon. and learned gentleman himself, if in the larger islands there were not the most beneficial legislative enactments for the protection of slaves; and he might also appeal to him on the subject of the feeling and temper in their favour. He might appeal to the improvements that had been made in agriculture, which materially diminished their labour, and the improvements in the estates. In the islands to which he alluded, the principles there laid down were not intrenched upon. In Jamaica, there were slaves possessed of considerable property; there were, indeed, instances in which they had bought their freedom by the earnings of their own industry. He appealed to the hon. member for Stock-bridge, who had stated that he himself had been the purchaser of considerable property from slaves, and had declared at the time that that was not the only instance of the kind he had known. There was a difference between the statement of the hon. and learned gentleman, and what appeared to be the fact. He had mentioned two presentments. The circumstances respecting the only one of which he knew agreed exactly with the description of the second the hon. and learned gentleman had mentioned. The document said to be the presentment of the grand jury was, however, no presentment whatever. [The hon. gentleman then read part of a letter from the house of assembly to the governor, stating that the presentment had been rejected by the bench, and had never come to the records of the court.] The date of the latter presentment was, he believed, the 17th of February.

said, the presentment that had been made, and never entered on the records, was dated in August. The previous presentment was dated in February.

considered that, at all events, what had happened might be taken as implying that the legislature wished to remove impressions that were connected with such affairs. In judging of such a case as that before them the House Could not come to any conclusion without having fairly before them the whole of the evidence; and previous to the noble lord at the head of the department entering into any examination of the most particular case which had been mentioned, he had thought it right to have all the necessary evidence, which it was but justice to examine. With respect to the case mentioned by the hon. and learned gentleman, as having occurred in the island of Nevis, he could say nothing to it: as, having been ignorant of the hon. and learned gentleman's intention to allude to it, he had not collected the necessary information. Indeed, he was not sure, if such information had yet reached the office to which he belonged. If it had, he should have no objection to produce it. He hoped the House would do him the credit to believe, that he would not stand forward to defend any criminal, or to palliate any cruelty. The best means of exposing the one, and of preventing the other, was to lay full information before parliament, to keep a watchful eye on the transactions of our colonies, and to express an utter abhorrence of all cruel and unjust treatment, like that detailed by the hon. and learned gentleman, if the accounts of it were supported on proper evidence. He had no objection to produce the papers moved for, so far as he could; but he begged that the House would excuse the imperfect state in which it might be in his power to grant the requisite information.

was happy to hear such sentiments as those uttered by his hon. friend, and to learn his readiness to communicate the desired information. It was with great satisfaction he likewise heard that the state of society in the West India islands was improving, and that it was not nearly so bad in the larger and more populous as in the smaller islands; but while this progress towards amelioration was calculated to give satisfaction, it was not sufficient to warrant the House in withdrawing its superintendence or relaxing its vigilance. Much had been done, but much yet remained to be accomplished. When he considered that in none of the colonics any steps had been taken to encourage the manumission of slaves; when he considered the treatment to which in all the colonies they were still subject; when he considered that the cart-whip was still resorted to as an instrument of discipline; when he considered that slaves were still discredited as witnesses, and that their evidence could not be taken in a court of justice; when he considered that such a state of servitude as this existed in all our colonies, however modified by the individual humanity of the masters, he could not help thinking it the duty both of this and the other House of Parliament to keep a watchful eye over that part of the British dominions, for the protection of those who might be exposed to oppression.

said, he did not rise to oppose the motion, or to abet the practices to which it referred. The cruelties stated by the hon. and learned gentleman, if his statement should be found to be supported on proper evidence, had his unqualified abhorrence. As he was ignorant of the grounds on which those statements rested, he could not object to their truth, nor could he complain that they had been brought forward. There were parts of the hon. and learned gentleman's speech, to the spirit and tendency of which he strongly objected. He alluded to those parts of it in which he stated, that in Dominica and Nevis, to which his motion referred, there was a disposition to enact laws for the protection of the slaves, which were never intended to be executed, and then appealed to the fact asserted of those two islands as a proof of the general spirit and disposition of all our West India colonies. He did not mean to find fault with the general tone and temper of the hon. and learned gentleman's speech, in which he professed a wish to be conciliatory; but he would appeal to his candour, whether such a sweeping inference ought to be drawn regarding the whole of our colonial possessions, from the instance of two of the most insignificant. He did not know the amount of the population of these two islands; but he could say, that it was very inconsiderable when compared with the rest. While they scarcely shipped six hogsheads of sugar to this country, Jamaica alone sent 130,000 hogsheads. How unfair was it, therefore, to apply the language which might be spoken of possessions so insignificant to the state of society and the principles of legislation prevalent in all the other islands? He could assure the hon. and learned gentleman that the legislation of the large colonies was conducted on very different principles from those which he had stated. No law was made in Jamaica which was not enacted on the perfect conviction of justice and policy, and which was not intended to be applied and executed. The hon. and learned gentleman had asked, whether an interference between master and slave was not always discouraged in the colonies, and strongly objected to on the part of the planters? He would answer the appeal in the affirmative, so far as legislation was concerned, and so far as those not sufficiently acquainted with the circumstances of both might wish to interfere; but this admission did not apply to persons within the islands. Nothing, indeed, was more common, as he could assert on his own personal knowledge, than the latter kind of interference. When a slave was ordered to receive punishment by his master, it was a very general practice for him to slip away privately to tell some neighbouring planter, and beg his intercession for a remission or mitigation of his sentence. If the slave was met going on this mission and asked his object, he would answer, that he was going to get a ticket, by which was meant a letter from a clergyman of magistrate requesting a pardon or a mitigation of punishment. This intercession was often effectual, and never objected to. If, then, a master was willing to tolerate the interference of the characters whom he had mentioned, who were clothed with comparatively little authority, was it to be believed that he would object to that of the highest law officer in the colony? The attorney-general in Jamaica might be often, from the great extent of the island, at the distance of 100 or 120 miles, and therefore could not be applied to on all occasions; but was it to be believed that masters who admitted the interference of the minor authority, would object to that of the higher? When he considered this and similar charges of the hon. and learned gentleman, he must say, without meaning any disrespect, that his speech was conciliatory in his words, but injurious in its tendency. It began by complaining of certain practices in the islands of Dominica and Nevis, and then applied the inference drawn from those practices to Jamaica and all the West India islands. If such a speech went forth uncontradicted to the public, as, from the interest attached to the subject, it certainly would do, he submitted to the House that it might produce very wrong impressions regarding the character of the West India proprietors. Its object was not, to misrepresent, but its tendency was. He need mention nothing farther to show this tendency than the reference to the state of St. Domingo, which persons ill-informed, or willing to be deceived, might apply to the state of society in the British possessions. To confirm impressions so created, the House, whenever punishment was mentioned, heard of the cart-whip, by which an idea of the severity and cruelty of the treatment of slaves was meant to be conveyed. [Hear, hear! from sir S. Romilly, who asked across the table, was the instrument of punishment not a whip?] Most undoubtedly it was a whip; but why use the odious and invidious term of a cart-whip, implying a brutal infliction of severity, instead of a necessary correction? In what the hon. and learned gentleman had said about public chains, there was the same tendency to mislead. He did not deny that forced labour in chains did exist in Jamaica. Runaway negroes were put into a workhouse and chained for the purpose of security. Various species of punishments were resorted to on the island suited to the different kinds of offences. One of these punishments was transportation, and between passing of this sentence and its execution, the slaves were confined in a workhouse, and compelled to labour in chains. These chains, however, were employed more for the purpose of preventing escape than inflicting punishment; and the work to which they were compelled was rather intended to promote their health than to gain any thing by their industry in this situation. They neither suffered in this case from their labour or their chains. The hon. and learned gentleman, in speaking of the hundred lashes inflicted in one of the islands, had stated truly that only 39 could be inflicted in Jamaica. This, be had reason to believe, was not regarded by the slaves themselves as a very severe punishment, and he should be glad if circumstances would permit its severity to be lessened. He had never seen the punishment inflicted in his life, but he Could judge of it from what he had seen. He had sometimes been applied to for a ticket similar to that to which he alluded, either for a remission or a mitigation of punishment. Slaves were sometimes sentenced to be corrected by the stocks (similar to those used in this country) or by solitary confinement; and in such cases those who applied to him, if they ad no prospect of a full pardon, begged that he would interfere to get that species of punishment commuted into the 39 lashes. This preference sufficiently showed that these lashes did not cause so great suffering as was generally imagined, or were inflicted with that severity which was generally described.

said, he was not aware of the circumstances in Dominica, which had been so impressively stated to the House, until he heard them from the hon. and learned gentleman who made the present motion, and he viewed them with feelings of regret and abhorrence, not less sincere than those of the hon. and learned gentleman. The hon. and learned gentleman had, however, applied his great talents to give a colouring to their case which might not belong to it, when the papers came to be produced, from which alone the House could judge of its true nature and character, and he had given a colouring to the case in the island of Nevis, which, from what he had understood of it, did not belong to it. The observations of the hon. and learned gentleman, with respect to the case in Dominica, related to two objects, first, the severities of punishment, and next, the inadequate and defective administration of the criminal justice of the island, with a view to the protection of the slave from the cruelty of the master. The first was a question of fact, altogether not only unsupported, but negatived indeed by the only paper which had been laid upon the table of the House, by which it appeared that the grand jury refused to find the bills of indictment that were preferred by the attorney general against the masters; and yet, unsupported as the charge was, and negatived as it was, upon the return of the grand jury, the hon. and learned gentleman took upon himself to argue that this was a case distinguished by circumstances of great cruelty and oppression, and not merely a case of great cruelty but he infers, that it is a sample of the general treatment of the black population, and a pregnant proof of the prevailing feeling of the colonies towards that description of persons. He denied the fact of the mal-treatment, and he was more authorized in denying it, than the hon, and learned gentleman in asserting it; but he denied still more confidently the inference which he had attempted to draw so injuriously to the other class of the population, whose duty and whose interest it was, to afford to the negroes the advantages of their protecting care and kindness. If it should turn out to be a case of cruelty, let the odium rest where it justly belongs; but he protested against it as any proof of the prevailing disposition in the colonies towards the maltreatment or cruelty of slaves: not merely as an unfair deduction in point of argument, but as altogether unfounded in fact, from every thing that he had heard and from every thing that he had: reason to believe. But the hon. gentleman says that this conduct of the grand jury is a reflection upon the administration of criminal justice in Dominica. This charge is undoubtedly one of a very: grave and serious nature; it personally affects the individuals who, upon their oaths, pronounced the judgment which is complained of, and it affects the general character of the island; the absence, too, of that evidence which was submitted to the grand jury, and upon which their judgment was formed. The hon. and learned gentleman is a distinguished ornament of the profession to which he belongs; and he submitted it to his candour, whether it could be useful to throw out this general censure, merely because a judgment has been pronounced, contrary to what, in his view, the justice of the case required.

The hon. and learned gentleman has given a colouring to the case in Nevis which he had reason to think did not fairly belong to it. He was not aware of the circumstances of this case until yesterday, when the respectable gentleman who is agent for the island, submitted to him the facts connected with it as they came out upon the trial of Mr. Huggins, and upon the previous examination before a magistrate. He stated these circumstances from memory, and he hoped the House would do him the justice to believe that he was incapable of stating them contrary to the impression which they made upon his mind; he was no apologist of the conduct of Mr. Huggins. The circumstances of a former case, well known to the House, had brought great discredit upon himself, and no slight reproach upon the general character of the colonies; but whatever may be the indignation arising from his former conduct, he hoped that the prejudice was not so strong as to preclude the fair investigation of truth in this case. The circumstances were these: a negro belonging to a gentleman for whom Mr. Huggins acted as attorney was concerned in a theft, and two other negroes were charged with being the receivers of the goods stolen. The theft was acknowledged, and though the receivers denied having received the goods, yet they were found in their possession. They were therefore ordered by Mr. Huggins to be flogged; but whatever was the number of lashes, it had no very great effect upon them, for it appears that they were both at a negro masquerade the night after, the one in the character of Buonaparte, the other as the duke of Wellington.—With respect to the punishment of the women, the hon. and learned gentleman has not given a fair representation of the case. They were not punished for shedding tears in consequence of the punishment which had been inflicted upon the men, but for violent yells and refractory conduct; tending to excite opposition to the punishment on the part of the other negroes, and to set at defiance the authority of the master; they were not tears of sorrow, but tears of outrage and obstinacy [Hear, hear!].— It was stated too, that one of them had been brought up as a domestic in Mr. Cottle's family, and treated with all tenderness and kindness. This is no doubt true, but it is also true that Mr. Cottle, before he left the island, had dismissed her from his house in consequence of her violent and refractory conduct, and put her to work in the field, and Mr. Cottle who was here, had given his approbation to the course Mr. Huggins had adopted. But the hon. and learned gentleman had impugned the whole island, as if the trial was a sort of mockery, the result of which was anticipated and desired by the community. The fact, however, is, that the council and assembly, influenced no doubt by a keen recollection of the stigma in which the former conduct of Mr. Huggins had in volved them, ordered the prosecution against him by the resolutions of the two Houses: and in order that the prosecution might be conducted with effect, they sent to governor Probyn for the assistance of the attorney general, and the cause came to trial with all the advantage which could be afforded to it from the talents the experience, and the character of the attorney general. What more could be done under any circumstances—what other steps could the House of Commons have taken in a case where a prosecution might be ordered by them—what room is there, therefore, to doubt the sincerity of the island of Nevis upon this occasion, and what justice can there be in the attempt to impugn the proceedings of a public body, and to throw them into discredit in this country?—These were the circumstances of the case as they appeared from the papers submitted to him by the agent for the island, and they led him to think that the hon. and learned gentleman had given a colouring to this case which did not belong to it.—With respect to the Dominica case, he knew nothing of it, but he conjured, the House not to draw an unfavourable impression of the general system from these or other cases of severity of punishment which were rather to be expected than wondered at; if they should turn out to be cases of enormity, let them be visited with reprehension, and he would go any length in applying a remedy that might be con- sistent with the security and protection of the persons and property of the white population; and he assured the hon. and learned gentleman, that if he could devise any means of promoting the comfort and the happiness of the blacks without weakening the bond of union between master and slave, he would confer a service upon all persons connected with that system, which would make him live in the history of the colonies long after he himself should be no more.

said, that the House had heard the defence which had been set up in answer to the statement of his hon. and learned friend, of certain acts committed by a man named Huggins, infamous for his barbarities and atrocities on a former occasion. It had not been disputed by the hon. gentleman who spoke last, that the greatest atrocities and barbarities had disgraced the conduct of that individual on a former occasion. Having stated that there was a universal concurrence in this opinion with respect to his former conduct, with what surprise had he heard quoted by the hon. gentleman who spoke last, a certificate of the good conduct of that man, from the person who was capable of employing him as an attorney over slaves, towards whom his barbarity had resounded throughout the whole world [Hear, hear!]. The approbation of such a master weighed in a very different manner with him from what it had done with the hon. gentleman. It seemed to him the testimonial of a leading criminal to an accomplice in a common guilt. Such a testimony could only operate against the master, but never could avail the servant. With respect to the punishment of the two boys and the two women, whose feelings were agitated by that punishment, he would observe, that the hon. gentleman who had accused his hon. and learned friend of putting his own colour on the facts stated by him, had here put his own colouring on the facts—for the facts were the same—the only difference being the discovery of the hon. gentleman of the state of mind which had produced those symptoms in the women for which they were subjected to punishment. The hon. gentleman had said they were not tears of sorrow, but yells—he should have thought the proper expression yells of horror—but the hon. gentleman who was better acquainted with what was passing in the minds of those females—called them yells of obsti- nacy. It was the violent expression of the painful feelings with which they witnessed the punishment of persons who were dear to them. According to the hon. gentleman they were yells of mutiny, and denoting an intention of interrupting the punishment. This construction, he owned, did appear to him a most singular one. This he believed was the first time in the history of tyranny, of spectators having been punished for expressing their feelings on the punishment of those who were near and dear to them. [Hear, hear!] But the hon. gentleman said, they were yells of obstinacy—that they were expressions of mutiny? How did the hon, gentleman know that? Perhaps this was the only instance in modern barbarity of spectators having been punished for a mere expression of sympathy. Never but once had it occurred even in Roman history; and he had heard Mr. Pitt once repeat from Livy, on a melancholy occasion, as the highest aggravation of infliction, that "ne gemitus quidem populi Romani liber fuit."—The hon. gentleman had said, that the council and assembly had agreed that Huggins should be prosecuted, and had sent for the attorney general of a neighbouring island to conduct the prosecution with more solemnity; and that they therefore could not be implicated in the cruelties, if any, committed by Huggins. But this was a proof at least of their sense of Huggins' enormities; they probably used every means in their power to bring him to account, and it appears that they went out of their way to farther an act of justice. But would they have done this, unless it had been absolutely necessary; and was it not almost conclusive against Huggins?. The hon. gentleman had told them, that the governor of Nevis had written expressing his approbation of Huggins's, conduct. In what part of the performance of his duty had governor Prohyn done this? Were we to suppose that the governor had any connexion with this Huggins, that he could in any way communicate with one so polluted, so degraded, and so abhorred? The letter, could not have been of a public nature, for its contents would then have been known; the letter could not have been a private communication, for, it was not to be credited that the governor of a British colony would be on terms, of intimacy with one who was not merely an object of horror, but whose very touch was conta- gious, and whose presence was an abomination. What, then, could have been the subject of this epistle? Was it necessary to heal the wounds which had been inflicted on this injured individual? Was it necessary to wash away the stain from the name of this hitherto spotless character?—He had no feeling of hostility to the inhabitants of the West India colonies; but he did not think their cause or character could be saved by a defence which bore such a character of exaggeration; for nothing, he conceived, partook more of exaggeration than the defence of the hon. gentleman.—With respect to the case of Dominica, he had one thing to observe. The hon. gentleman had not adverted to the principal point: that point was—not that the grand jury had in some cases found no bill, or that the petty jury had acquitted in others: they might both of them have acted thus in the exercise of their constitutional functions. The charge against the grand jury was not for exercising a lawful right, but for overstepping all right; for making the bill presented to be found by the grand jury, a nuisance; and by doing this, they had forfeited all the character of a grand jury. Could any man justify such conduct, or say that there was so much as the shadow of a pretence for it? The hon. gentleman, in omitting this altogether, had observed the rule of an ancient writer—"quæ desperat tractata nitescere posse, relinquit." In consequence of the grand jury throwing out the bill, directions were issued by the governor to the attorney-general to prosecute on an ex-officio information. That being done, the grand jury which had attacked the right to present by indictment as a nuisance, proceeded next to attack the prerogative of the Crown of proceeding by information ex-officio as a nuisance also. They thus barred up all the avenues to justice. They had put a negative upon the clause of Magna Charta which says "Nulli negabimus, nulli deferemus, nulli vendemus, justitiam vel rectum." Not only was no justice done, but it was deemed a nuisance and public offence to attempt the attainment of it. If that was not their purpose, it was not very easy to conceive with what design they had presented the indictment as a nuisance. After all that deep feeling and heartfelt anxiety with which his hon. and learned friend had brought forward this motion—a feeling which was more creditable to him than the mere professional talent on the score of which the hon. member had thought fit to compliment him—it was to be hoped that some notice would be taken of conduct which it was intended not merely to complain of, but to show to have been inconsistent with, all law and justice whatever. It was clear that we had heard of a contempt of all authority, of the scorn in which laws had been held, and of outrages against humanity; and it was on these grounds that his hon. and learned friend had thought it his duty to inform himself of the state of the island, in order to restore or give to it that blessing of equal law which was the best part of good government, and that for which our political institutions were chiefly valuable.

in explanation, observed, that the hon. and learned gentleman had been pleased to say that he had given his own colouring to the affair of Nevis, whereas he had distinctly stated, that what he communicated was from the information of a gentleman of Nevis.

thought it unfortunate that there was no one in the House immediately acquainted with the island of Dominica and its laws. Not being so himself, he could not enter much into the discussion. The hon. and learned gentleman had certainly quoted laws which seemed to be very barbarous, but we had many on our own Statute book that were equally so. But a gentleman of Dominica had desired him to explain the presentation made by the grand jury, and he had it there from the foreman of the jury. On reading the indictment, he had felt the same impression as the hon. and learned gentleman, and as every one else would feel, that the jury had acted illegally; but, on explanation, this impression had been wholly altered. It appeared, on explanation, that the presentment was made in a very different view from that which would be supposed on reading it: it had not been their intention to present all indictments as a nuisance, but only such as were presented without sufficient evidence to support them. This appeared in the case of Mr. Birmingham. There had been a mutiny among his slaves: they had been indicted, but escaped on a flaw: (for there were flaws in indictments there as well as here); he was enraged at this, and his slaves refused to serve any longer under a coloured free man: he then had them secured and sent to the market place, where they were punished illegally. The grand jury complained that, on an indictment for this offence, there was not any evidence brought forward; the clerk of the market, the only evidence, not being produced, and the jury were obliged to find no bill. The presentment alleging such bills unsupported by evidence to be a nuisance was so well understood, that the attorney general was reprimanded for not doing is duty. Another instance of the same sort had occurred, and this sufficiently explained the nature of the presentment, to which he thought there could be no objection on these principles, because nothing tended so much to discontent, as ideas among the negroes that white men were not convicted for offences. There was not the same precision in language in that country as here, nor so much legal learning as the hon. mover possessed; and where a body was concerned in the framing of an instrument, every man would put in his word, and it was generally drawn up incorrectly in the end. The printed papers before the House did not give all the evidence that was necessary. It seemed as if juries were unwilling to convict white men; but the same jury had very lately convicted a white man for the murder of a negro: a Mr. Stranack had shot at a female slave in the act of running away with some of his property. The affair at Nevis should be investigated, but any papers laid upon the table with respect to this place or Dominica should not be ex parte.

said, that the arguments of Mr. Browne did not at all convince him that the affair at Nevis was of such a nature as not to require investigation. The negroes who were flogged were said to have been able to appear the next night at a negro masquerade. The source from which this lenity of punishment arose was, if his information was correct, such as to add greatly to the horror of the transaction. It was said, that the father himself of the boy was the person selected to inflict the lash upon him. This was truly unnatural and barbarous; it shocked all the best feelings of human nature. He had, however, a letter from a gentleman, who informed him that six days after the persons flogged exhibited strong marks of severity. The women, according to the accounts he had received, wept upon the occasion, but they did pot exhibit such a loud and extraordinary demonstra- tion of grief as that mentioned by the hon. gentleman. In his speech the hon. gentleman had been entirely silent upon a circumstance which added much to the severity of the case. It appeared that one of the women punished was in a state which should naturally excite sympathy and compassion—which should interest in her favour persons possessed of any thing like tenderness. Her arm was said to be broken at the time, and the fact as not contradicted. It was painful to dwell upon these circumstances of cruelty. It was their duty, by every means they could command, to place their fellow creatures, and, he would say, fellow subjects, in a better condition. He did not speak of these cases so much for the purpose of showing the severity with which slaves were treated, as to prove the bad effects arising from the state of degradation in which they were placed. This was the great evil. In the island of Jamaica, particularly upon large properties, they were better off than in other places. It was honourable to that island, that she had not taken any steps to render the manumission of slaves more difficult; but the evil was, that such laws as were most favourable to them were not always zealously attended to. Mr. Burke, speaking on the subject of abolition, said, that the assemblies had done little towards that object, and that what they had done was of no use, because it was destitute of any executory principle. Sympathy was the very soul of humanity. The negroes in the West India islands, differing from their masters in colour, in habits, and in relative situation, were not calculated to excite it in such a degree as to contribute much to their protection. They bore very little or no resemblance to the slaves of ancient times, or to the villains of the feudal system. In ancient times no individual, however great, or wealthy, or learned, could consider himself as completely secured from a state of slavery. From the custom of those early periods, the chance of war might make slavery he lot of every person. These were instances of slaves then who even raised themselves high in the schools of philosophy. These circumstances produced sentiments favourrable to them, and tending very much, to ameliorate their condition. Such was not the case in the West India colonies. Even the very circumstance of their inadmissibility to be heard as evidence, must prevent them from obtaining justice. The theft so solemnly alluded to by the hon. gentleman, and which drew after it so severe a punishment consisted only of a pair of Stockings. It was another circumstance honourable to the island of Jamaica, that they allowed negroes there to appear in evidence. After all, however, that sympathy was not felt for them on the other side of the water, which might be expected from men of enlightened understanding. Their state in Barbadoes was most wretched. Lord Seaforth, when governor of the island, endeavoured to improve it by procuring a law to render the murder of a slave capital. After much opposition on the part of the inhabitants, a law of this kind was said to have been passed. The island was at first enraged with the governor, even for proposing such a measure. When it was consented to, and the friends of humanity in this country were led to believe that the condition of the slaves in that island was much bettered, what was their surprise and disappointment to find, in two years after, when this law was laid upon the table of the House, that it was rendered entirely nugatory by a condition annexed to it; for it was provided that the murder, to be Capital, must have been unprovoked. So that provocation, real or pretended, would, under this law, have been sufficient to protect the guilty person from the punishment of death. The descriptions he had received with regard to the neglect of the decencies of life, as it respected the marriage state, the promiscuous and incestuous intercourse that prevailed among the slaves, and, indeed, their opposition to matrimony, showed but too plainly the corrupt and vicious system they were accustomed to.—There was another sad circumstance which retarded their amelioration, and this was, the practice of making the slaves amenable for the insolvency of their masters. Bryan Edwards, in his "History of the West Indies," had long since pointed out the evils which arose from permitting the creditors of a slave-owner to sell his slaves after his death, for the payment of debts not satisfied in his life-time; a system, as Mr. Edwards said, remorseless in principle, and tyrannical in effect. There were cases in which a negro had purchased his freedom, and the freedom of his children, and trained them up with the most exemplary care, yet his offspring had afterwards been seized on by the creditors of his deceased master, because he had died an insolvent, and thus transported to even the mines of Mexico. These were transactions which showed that remedial Steps were still required to mitigate, if not to remove such extraordinary sufferings. The illustrious Burke contemplated those remedies chiefly, if not wholly, in the encouragement of the institution of matrimony, as it respected the unfortunate slaves, and also in the facility and security of manumission. But where sums of 300l. and 500l. or even 100l. were required for the purposes of that manumission, how could it possibly, in many instances, be accomplished by the ill-fated though deserving slave? The general state of negro degradation must be cured by the wisdom and kindness of provident laws, before it would be practicable to elevate the slaves into the scale of civilized society; they must endeavour to promote their moral and religious instruction: above all they must promote the practice of marriage, if they desired to fit them for higher distinctions in life. Among those who were anxious to ameliorate the condition of the negroes, they had the satisfaction of numbering such characters as Fox, Pitt, and Grey, who were all agreed as to the necessity of raising the character by improving the condition of the negro. The House would believe that he felt deeply interested in the subject. That feeling had induced him to those exertions which threw great information in his way; and he should bold himself to be guilty of no common neglect, if he refrained from speaking out. The negroes must be raised in the scale of beings, and there appeared to be no other way to effect this desirable end except by marriage being encouraged among them. The Methodists and Moravians had done something in this respect in Africa; and, believing the people of that country to be as intellectually respectable; and morally amiable as any other race; of men, he hoped that no means for their improvement would be omitted by a country which had proceeded so far in redressing their wrongs.

could not avoid remarking the progressive change of opinion upon this, subject; for he remembered when all the gentlemen connected with the island of Jamaica took up the cause for the smaller islands with all the animation and bitterness of controversy; but now they expressed themselves perfectly willing, should any abuses have occurred in the smaller islands, to allow of their being corrected. The slaves also had on that night, for the first time, been recognized as subjects of his majesty. He rejoiced at this, for the inferences to be deduced from it were such as, twenty years ago, would have prevented any gentlemen who had opposed themselves to the abolition from acceding to the propriety of such a denomination. If such, then, was the case, how could 9,300 subjects of his majesty in the island of Nevis continue under the control of 501 whites, of whom the avowed principal was Mr. Huggins, whom, notwithstanding all that had been proved against him in May last, the governor still condescended to visit? How, in the island; of St. Kitt's, could 20,000 of his majesty's subjects continue under the control of 1,610 whites, or, in Dominica, 22,000 under 1,300? Where the ruling, society was so small, an esprit de corps was created, which would support every individual by the united power of the whole. He feared in such a case, at no distant period, the arm of the legislature would be required strongly to interfere, to secure justice to the oppressed.

, in reply, denied he had desired the House to judge from the practices of those two small islands, of the conduct in all the others. As to the facts he had stated, he might have been misinformed, but he had endeavoured to get the best information. The two men who had received the 200 lashes were not the thieves, but those who received the property. — He observed, that from the trial, the story of the masquerade must be incorrect. One of the witnesses, a driver, said, that six days after there were marks of severity on the negroes, such as he had never before observed. The girls who were punished, it was distinctly stated on the trial, that they did not scream; they covered their faces, and shed tears. An hon. gentleman had been offended at the word "cart-whip," but this was the phrase which was used on the trial, and as ft thence appeared the common word in the island.

The motion was agreed to.