in bringing up a Report from the Northern Circuit Committee, begged to call the attention of the House to the importance of this subject. It would be found that individuals had remained in prison eight, ten, and even eleven months, before they were brought to trial, in the four northern counties of Northumberland, Durham, Westmoreland, and Cumberland. Of these persons, many had been at last acquitted. It was unnecessary for him to attempt to influence the feelings of the House by any observations on the effects of such a practice, which involved so lamentable and so disgraceful a failure in the administration of public justice. It would be seen by the petition from Norwich, that there had been cases in which persons had been kept two years in prison without being brought to trial. It would appear that the business of the four northern counties was very great; that causes had stood two or three years for want of time to try them, and that remanets greatly increased. The proofs were too voluminous for printing, but an abstract of them was given. It would be found, that of eight special cases six remained untried, though all the witnesses were brought up, and all the expenses incurred. He was well aware that objections to improvements would be started from quarters which did not choose to look the evil in the face. But he should feel it his duty to persevere to the best of his poor abilities, in order to bring the question before the serious consideration and determination of parliament. The committee, after due consideration, had recommended a division of the four northern counties. Even at York, last session, six official warrants and three common causes stood over. The northern counties, in business, exceeded that of the western and Oxford circuits. The committee, however, agreed that only the established judges of the land should be sent on the commissions, as the business ought certainly to be entrusted to no other hands. He had heard indeed of a proposal to send down a commission with a serjeant at the head of it; but he looked at such a measure as delusive, and as a merely temporary remedy. He considered it to be the duty of the government to look at the matter carefully, as they had the best means of advice, having at their command, for consultation, the lord-chancellor, the judges, and the law-officers of the crown. He would leave this question for some weeks to government and the House to take a proper view of it. If they did not, he should take the liberty of proposing an address to the Prince Regent for the adoption of some measure to remedy so great and growing an evil. He was sure the feelings and justice of the House would go along with him.

The following is a copy of the said

REPORT.

The SELECT COMMITTEE appointed to consider whether any, and what steps may be necessary to be taken, to give to the Counties of Westmoreland, Cumberland, Northumberland, and Durham, and Town and County of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, the same advantages of Assizes twice in each year, as are now possessed by all the other Counties in England and Wales, and to report their observations thereupon to the House; and to whom the Petition of the Mayor, Sheriffs, Citizens and Commonalty of the City of Norwich; and also the Returns of the Calendars of the Prisoners, and of the Lists of Causes tried at the Assizes for the Counties before-mentioned, were referred;—Have, pursuant to the Order of the House, considered the same accordingly; and have agreed to the following Report:

Your Committee, on referring to the different papers laid before them by order of the House, find, that for several years past, persons charged in the four northern counties with offences, not ordinarily falling under the jurisdiction of the general quarter sessions, have continued in prison previous to their trial for seven, eight and nine months, and in many instances for a longer period of time; and they cannot but direct the immediate attention of the House to so great a failure in the administration of criminal justice.

The return of causes of the respective counties, with the exception of that of Westmorland, mark a large and progressive increase of civil business. In the marshal's paper at Carlisle, for the year 1814, no less than 80 records were delivered, of which four only appear to have been withdrawn; in the year 1815, 61 causes were entered; and the two successive years averaged not less than 50. At Durham, in the year 1816, they amounted to 51; and in 1817, to 54. Northumberland (including the jurisdiction of the town and county of Newcastle-upon-Tyne) furnished, in 1816, 42 causes; for five of these causes special juries had been summoned, three of them were made remanets, and consequently went over for 12 months; in the following year 32 actions were entered, one only of which was withdrawn. As the returns themselves are in their nature too voluminous for publication, a short but accurate abstract is given in the Appendix.

Such being the actual state of business in these three counties, without a well grounded prospect of diminution, your Committee cannot form to themselves any satisfactory reason why the trial of civil causes should be thus deferred within these districts, and the custom of holding only one assize in the year continued, subjecting the suitors to serious inconvenience, and in some cases, to ruinous expense. The practice of bringing actions in other counties, now often resorted to, where they are transitory, compels the attendance of witnesses carried from a considerable distance, kept at the cost of the respective parties, and probably at last dismissed without a hearing.

It is clear, from the evidence heard before your Committee as to the pressure of civil business at York, that it is now with difficulty gone through, though a greater number of days is allotted in the summer, than was usual in preceding years; and that, of late two judges have presided in the spring circuit; it will be found, that at the close of the last commission at that place, six special and three common jury causes were made remanets, yet the Court was occupied ten, twelve, or fourteen hours during the day.

At Lancaster, to a most heavy calendar, are added in general not less than 180 causes, involving them, as may naturally be imagined from the site and population of the palatinate, questions of the highest importance, as well on commercial as on other points.

Looking therefore to all the circumstances which accompany this view of the subject, and considering it just, that these counties should not be deprived of those advantages which are possessed by all the counties within the United Empire, your Committee beg leave to recommend, that such measures should be taken as would divide the present northern circuit into two separate circuits, the one comprehending the counties of Westmorland, Lancaster, and Cumberland, and the other including those of York, Northumberland and Durham. No objection could arise, under this arrangement, as to the attendance of an enlightened bar, for with the proposed alteration, there would still remain to each of these divisions as much, if not a larger extent of business, than is generally transacted upon every other circuit in England.

To carry this plan into its full execution, and to give it that weight and authority, which interests of such moment demand your Committee are of opinion, the duties which belong to it, should only be intrusted to established judges of the land: whether the present limited number of that highly respected body will permit such an addition of labour, must be left to the farther deliberation of the House; that head of examination not falling, as your Committee apprehended, within the precise limits of their instructions, they did not proceed to any regular course of inquiry which might embrace it, but in looking to the state of the new trials before the court of King's-bench, as connected with the northern counties, it could not escape their observation, that those who now administer the justice of the country have difficulties imposed upon them, which, with all their zeal and activity, they are in some instances unable to surmount.

Your Committee, in adverting to the substance of the petition from the city of Norwich was referred to them by order of the House, are called upon to observe, that the inconvenience there sustained, from the delay of the trial of prisoners, appears to have been so great, that it would be highly expedient, for the sake of public justice, that some remedy should be applied to the evil; and that if it is the pleasure of the House to recommend, in whatever way they shall think best, an augmentation to the present number of the judges, such additional judges might be most usefully and beneficially employed in the respective courts in Westminster-hall, and in the regular tribunals of the country; by this means, an opportunity would be afforded of supplying the defect so loudly complained of on the Norfolk and Midland circuits, viz. of having only one judge on the spring circuit to preside on the civil and criminal trials.

28th April, 1818.

, in submitting his promised motion for an Address to his royal highnes the Prince Regent, for a revocation of the regulation concerning the Pensions of the Widows of Military Officers, professed himself to be in a situation of considerable difficulty, from the late order containing a modification of the regulation it was his object to have recalled. He was well aware that the regulation, in its present mitigated shape, had nothing in it of equity; but he was also aware, that it disarmed the opposition to the original one, of many of its advocates. The modification, notwithstanding, though it might neutralize the class it was meant to relieve, altered nothing of the strict justice of the case. He wished it to be understood, therefore, that he felt it his duty to bring forward the subject, not merely as a question of generosity, but as one of strict justice; and before he proceeded farther, he must express his regret and surprise, that ministers should think proper to begin the system of rigid economy, which they had so long promised, by an act so shocking to the liberality, the justice, and the gratitude of the country, as the refusal of the small pension to which the relict of a British officer was entitled. After persevering so long in the system of public profusion, was it becoming to make the first instance of departure from that system a violation of the rights of the most interesting class of persons connected with the public service? The question was, not whether the House would be generous to, but whether it would keep faith with, the army? He had no difficulty in declaring, that to continue the regulation would be a breach of the good faith due from the country to her brave defenders. According to the warrant which had been published upon this subject, it appeared, that any officer's wife who had become a widow since the 25th of December last, was not to receive the pension allowed her according to her husband's rank, if she was in possesion of any annuity from government, or any other income equal to double the amount of such pension. Since he had drawn the attention of the House to the subject, a second order had been issued, confining the operation of the rule to cases where the income might be quadruple the pension, and exempting from it the widows of all officers at present married. But this modification was by no means satisfactory. The utmost extent of saving that could be expected from the most rigid enforcement of this illiberal order, was not such as to reconcile the public feeling to its adoption. The total amount of widows' pensions, including Ireland, did not exceed 98,000l., and the sum allowed to each lady was comparatively insignificant. This would be seen upon reference to the scale of pensions; according to which the widow of a general officer received but 120l. per annum—the widow of a lieut.-colonel, 80l.—of a Captain, 50l. of a lieutenant, 40l.—and of an ensign, 36l. Now the first of these, it appeared from the modified arrangement, if her income from any other sources amounted to 480l., was to have her 120l. denied to her. Thus 480l. a year was thought too much, by our economic ministers, for the maintenance of a lady of the rank of a general officer's widow. But he would appeal to any generous, considerate mind, whether, in the present state of society and rate of living, a lady of such rank could contrive, upon a less sum, to maintain herself in an appropriate manner? The same appeal he could make with still more force with regard to the widows of all officers of inferior rank. It was with the noble lord, unquestionably, to offer his terms of service in future, as he might think fit, whether handsomely or unhandsomely, to the army. But he must decidedly object to any retrospective view of the subject. On that ground he objected to the application of the principle to unmarried men now in the army; for it must be recollected, that these funds were originally created for the maintenance of officers' widows, by voluntary subscriptions from all the officers, whether married or unmarried. It was, perhaps, not generally known, that from one branch of the service, the artillery, a stoppage was regularly made, in order to create a widows fund. From a captain-commandant, deductions were made to the amount of 13l. 13s. 9d. Besides, in a great many regiments, benefit societies were formed by officers, to secure to their widows, on their own demise, some small pension. Upon what principle of justice, then, could those officers who still continued to make a voluntary subscription for such a fund, be deprived of any right which belonged to it, merely because they were not married at a particular period? How many gentlemen might have had this fund in their contemplation when they entered into the army. The claim to this fund was no doubt a part of the consideration for which gentlemen paid the purchase money of their commission. It was certain, indeed, that all officers conceived the faith of government pledged to them for the fair dispensation of this fund, and it could not be fair to withhold it from any of those who contributed to its creation, or who were entitled to calculate upon its existence. Every gentleman was obviously so entitled who had entered the army previous to the publication of the warrant alluded to. Therefore, if such an order were at all to be acted upon, it should be entirely prospective. It was notorious that many married and unmarried officers, actuated by the noblest motives, contributed from their pay to create a fund for the support of widows by life assurances, as well as by other means. Would it not then be most unjust that any fund created by such means should negative the claim of an officer's widow to the pension under consideration? If, indeed, that principle were admitted, what an officer saved from his pay, or collected from his self-denials, would be a source of profit to the government. Suppose an inferior officer, now unmarried, were, by frugality, to acquire property to the amount of 1,000l. a year, and subsequently marry and leave a widow, might it not fairly be said that he had been labouring all his life to gain what now disqualified his widow from receiving what would otherwise be a debt to her? Thus the meritorious calculation of the officer would be frustrated, and the fair expectation of the lady disappointed through the miserable economy of the government which he served. The argument against applying such a principle to the officers already in the army was, in his view, irresistibly strong. If such a principle were pressed at all, it could only, with any colour of justice, operate towards those who were yet to enter the service; for such persons being aware of the regulation, would not have so much reason to complain. But the regulation as it stood had, ministers might be assured, served to excite strong feelings of Surprise and indignation throughout the country. In had, indeed, naturally occasioned an odious contrast between those civil servants of the Crown who basked in court favour, and the relicts of those gallant men who had fought and fallen in the service of their country. The reason originally assigned for this regulation was, that it was recommended by the committee of finance. But at the time this reason, was assigned he defied the noble lord to point out such a recommendation of the committee alluded to. The members of that committee were all the friends of the minister. He meant not to speak disrespectfully of any individual among them. They were respectable Tories, but still they were all Tories; and it was not probable they would take steps which would affect their friends in office. Therefore he was not disposed to offer them unqualified homage. He understood that there was a question put by a member of that committee, whether there ought not to be some limitation to widows' pensions, and whether it was proper, for instance, that such a pension should be granted to the duchess of Northumberland? This, no doubt, was an extreme case, and he believed that the exception of such cases was not likely to produce any material saving. But as to the question alluded to, he would ask, whether an interlocutory observation in a committee should be made the ground of a legislative proceeding? The finance committee had not recommended the measure to which he objected, and therefore to quote their authority was inaccurate. Upon what ground the proposition of rendering this order, if it were to exist, entirely prospective, could be resisted on the other side, he was at a loss to divine. Those who were so tenacious in their arrangements about sinecures—that those arrangements should be solely prospective—that the present holders should not be affected—that vested rights should not be disturbed—could not surely attempt, with any degree of grace, to press a different principle with respect to the rights of those who were the relicts of our gallant defenders. It would be less becoming in the noble lord to do so, than perhaps any other person; for, when a proposition was made with respect to the Chelsea pensions, the noble lord distinctly maintained, that no steps could be justly taken for the reduction of the pension of any one at present in the army, whatever might be done towards those who should enlist hereafter, because the former had entered into the service with the knowledge of their right to participate of the present rate of pensions. Hence the noble lord argued, that any project upon this subject must be entirely prospective.—Why not apply this principle to the case of the widows' pensions? But then it was recommended for the purpose of equalizing the two services of the army and navy. Strange mode of equalizing! The navy had long complained of the severity imposed by these limitations; and therefore, under the pretext of equalizing the two services, the noble lord meditates by the operation of this warrant, to pass the grievances of the navy to the army—and this was called equality? It might, however, be said, that some limitation ought to be put to these pensions. In his judgment there should be none; discretion certainly should exist—but he objected to the decided principle which said, "under this or under that circum stance, no relief shall be afforded." After a war of such duration, when the military, establishment of the country had been so much increased, the whole sum of these pensions to the widows of gallant men did not exceed 98,000l. Allowing these limitations to be persevered in, what amount of saving did the noble lord calculate? Not 20,000l. Was it wise to gall the feelings of the British army for such a sum as that? It might be an opinion with some that the army was overpaid—overpaid he meant in relation to the resources of the state, but surely this, which was a good reason for a smaller army, could be no reason for distressing the widows of deceased officers, and wounding the feelings of the survivors. Why, the very grant which the ministers Of the crown proposed for a royal duke, but which, from the virtue of their Tory friends, was luckily checked and destroyed in the bud, would have amounted to the whole sum which, even under its greatest operation, the country could gain from these pitiful savings from the widows' fund. Let them look to the grant made to general officers in 1814—no less a sum than 176,935l.—and yet they would take from the poor widows the mite to which the services of their husbands entitled them. He objected to the first part of the regulation, because it was a mockery. The Prince Regent said—"Any widow who has another pension—or a situation to a certain amount—shall not be entitled to relief." Why, it was in the power of the Prince Regent's confidential advisers to prevent any of them from having pensions or situations of this kind. But let the House observe how unfairly rewards were apportioned. The grant to lady Gillespie was more than three times greater than the sum the receipt of which would disqualify any officer's widow from claiming the ordinary bounty. The principle on which these limitations rested was wholly unknown in every other branch of the state, save in the navy. What, then, was the fair inference?—It was this, that it should be abolished where it existed, in place of being extended from the navy to the army. It was not in their injustice alone that these proposed limitations were objectionable. They were injurious to the moral feelings, and most likely to lead to the encouragement of deception and perjury. They told the British officer, that should he be industrious and prudent, disinterested and affectionate, he forfeited all claim for his widow to share in the royal bounty, in consequence of the effects of such virtues. They were a tax on frugality, disinterestedness, and conju- gal affection. But would the evil even terminate there? Was it to be supposed, that in order to avail themselves of the pension, some evasion, nay, even perjury, would be resorted to, in order to bring the applicant within the scope of these limitations. The temptation to perjury and evasion was rendered very strong in the case of a helpless woman, incumbered perhaps with a large family, when by stating her actual means to be within the limitation prescribed, a pension might be obtained. Instances of this kind had occurred in the navy, and were the natural result of such a principle. Was it not probable that officers would leave the money for their families in trust, and of course exposed to all the insecurity of such a disposition? He knew not with whom this measure originated. It did not, he was firmly persuaded, originate at the Horse Guards, nor in the War-office. No military man would have suggested such a thought, still less the illustrious and highly meritorious prince who at present presided over the interests of the army. It was not difficult to conceive that the opinion of that illustrious person might be opposed on such a subject by his majesty's ministers, as a sort of proof how independent they were of royal influence. He doubted whether the noble lord, the secretary at war, had concurred in the propriety of its adoption; but, in other times, such a circumstance would have led to his resignation. The pretence of economy made but a bad appearance, when it was found that in no other respect was public economy consulted, and that no retrenchments were effected, where they were most loudly called for. He felt confident, that not only the feelings of the army, but the sense of the public was opposed to the regulation; with regard to which, therefore, he should accept no compromise, but move for its total and unconditional revocation. The hon. gentleman concluded with moving,

"That an humble Address be presented to his royal highness the Prince Regent, humbly setting forth, that this House, being informed that his Royal Highness has been advised to issue the following warrant, viz.

"'GEORGE P. R.—By his royal highness the Prince Regent, in the name and on the behalf of his majesty: Whereas we have deemed it expedient to revise the rules and regulations under which pensions are now granted to the widows of commissioned officers of our land forces, and to confine such pensions to those applicants who shall appear, from the state of their pecuniary circumstances, to be proper objects of our royal bounty; it is our will and pleasure, and we do hereby order and direct, in the name and on the behalf of his majesty, that no pension shall be hereafter granted to the widow of any commissioned officer of the land forces dying subsequently to the 25th of December last, who shall have any other pension from government, or whose annual income otherwise arising shall amount to double the rate of pension assigned to the rank of her deceased husband. Given at our court at Carlton-house, this 17th day of February 1818, in the fifty-eighth year of his majesty's reign. By command of his royal highness the Prince Regent, in the name and on the behalf of his majesty.

'(Signed) PALMERSTON.'

"This House doth humbly represent to his Royal Highness, that the pensions heretofore regularly allowed to the widows of the officers of his majesty's land forces, have never, within the memory of the oldest officer in his majesty's service, been practically subject to any such conditions as those expressed in the said warrant, and have been relied upon accordingly by the said officers as a certain and unconditional provision for their widows; in consequence of which, many marriages have been contracted, and settlements made, in which the said pensions were calculated upon by all the parties concerned, which parties will be irremediably wronged, and several of them grievously distressed by the operation of the said warrant:

"That the sale of commissions being officially permitted in the army, such transactions have been exceedingly numerous, in all of which the unconditional pensions have been taken into account, and it is morally impossible that the purchasers should ever be indemnified for the loss they will have sustained on the difference between the price given for their commissions, and their value as reduced by the said warrant:

"That many officers have laid out considerable sums in life-insurances for the advantage of their widows; and that, likewise, in many corps, funds have been raised, by subscriptions among the officers thereof, for the purpose of securing to the widows of the officers of such corps certain small annuities, the benefit of which life-insurances and annuities will in many instances be wholly lost to the said widows if the said warrant shall take effect:

"And that this House, though deeply sensible of the necessity of curtailing the national expenses at the present crisis, is yet humbly of opinion, that unless all other means of retrenchment are totally exhausted, it is no less irreconcileable with the justice, than unworthy of the generosity and humanity of the state, to restrict, by any conditions whatever, grants of such small amount, to persons peculiarly helpless, which grants have been nobly and dearly earned by the valour and conduct of the leaders of his majesty's intrepid and victorious troops:

"That this House, therefore, doth humbly intreat his Royal Highness to cause the said warrant to be forthwith entirely revoked, cancelled, and annulled."

said, he rose with sincere pleasure to second the motion of his hon. friend. The measure was not founded upon any sufficient grounds, at least not upon any known to him. It was recommended neither in the report of the last Finance Committee, nor of any that preceded it. He had, independently of his own experience, consulted with many officers of the army on the subject, some of whom had passed fifty years in the service, and who all declared, that they were bred up in the expectation of not only looking to the liberality of their sovereign and country for an adequate pay, but that their widows were also entitled to a pension on their decease. He should therefore put it to the House to say, whether, for the trifling expected saving that could arise from these restrictions, they would impair that sense of gratitude which the army uniformly felt for the extension of its bounty? It was to be recollected that the commissions of officers were often purchased by their own property. When they died these commissions reverted to the Crown, leaving nothing to the family of the deceased but the pension. On the faith of these pensions matrimonial engagements were frequently formed, and when an officer received the fortune of a lady, the prospect of even such a provision, in case of death, had its value. He found that, by the 21st of Charles 2nd pensions were first granted to officers' widows. At that period 3,000l. was devoted to this laudable purpose. In 1647, when the army was to be disbanded, an order was made for the provision of soldiers' widows, and of maimed soldiers. In 1716, a special provision was made for the widows of officers. He had to thank his noble friend, the secretary at war, for a copy of the warrant of queen Anne, issued in 1708, by which a limitation was first put to the extension of the widows pensions, by making it compulsory on the applicants to make oath that they had not without them a sufficient competency. The warrant of queen Anne, regulating the amount of her bounty to be allowed to officers who had served in Spain, Portugal, and France, provided "that all widows of officers laying claim to the same, should be required to show that they had no pension, allowance, or other provision from the Crown, nor any sufficient or reasonable maintenance left them by their late husbands." This regulation had been made more than a hundred years ago, for the widows of officers who had served in Spain, Portugal, &c. No mention was made of the widows of those who had served in Flanders, but it was not to be supposed that at that period, four years after the battle of Blenheim, they were forgotten. They could not have been less provided for; possibly a better provision was made for them. Yet this warrant was never brought into operation; it remained on the shelf in the archives of the office until now, after a period of one hundred years, it was about to be revived. In 1717, another warrant was issued by George 1st on the subject of pensions. It related to the army in general, and upon this footing the matter remained until 1763. It was then established, that officers widows should have no other provision but their pension in England or Ireland. No mention, however, was made of a provision from their husbands, and it was clearly omitted on purpose. Previous to Mr. Burke's bill, there were cases of pension so strong, and so much the subject of complaint, as to be quoted even at the present day; but no regulation was deemed expedient until now, with respect to such as were granted to officers' widows. The fact was, that no officer's widow has ever been called upon to give an account of her circumstances, the expectation of receiving her pension unrestricted had been justified by the uninterrupted dependence on the royal bounty, and under such circumstances could the House be surprised to find the British army rely on its continuance? It was not until when in the enthusiasm of recent triumphs, the liberality of the sovereign and the country had been so extensively conferred on the army, that any disposition was manifested to interfere with these pensions—but was there no way of repairing the extravagance of national gratitude, but by an inroad on the small provision of the defenceless widows of the deceased officers? He was as ready as any man to subscribe to the country's demand for economy and retrenchment, but he could not admit that the proposed measure had any claim to that character. It was a vexatious test to put to those who really had claims, particularly when every other class of pensioners received their allowances, whether earned or not, without any limitation whatsoever. He entreated the House to consider this question on its own intrinsic merits, and without any comparative reference to the naval service. Such comparisons were always invidious. The House would, however, bear in mind, that the commissions in the army were objects of purchase, which was not the case with commissions in the navy. A committee had been appointed by the House to inquire into the revenue, to examine and to see what retrenchment might be made, consistently with the necessities of the public service, and with the honour of the country. No regulation of widows pensions was recommended, or even mentioned, by the committee in their report. No. 18 of that report related to county warrants, No. 19 contained a recommendation of moderation in granting pensions, but it evidently did not apply to those of officers widows otherwise it would appear that the committee had not touched upon the threshold of economy until they came to the subject of widows pensions. It was strange that when by a county warrant, the relatives of officers, provided they could obtain the sanction of ministers, could obtain any sum from the royal bounty, those restrictions should be interposed between the widow and her pension. Surely when the gallant and heroic exploits of the army had raised their own and their country's character to the highest pitch of national glory, the sovereign might have been spared the mortification of being obliged to issue an order that went to limit those grants of bounty which had come down unrestricted from his royal ancestors, and for which the liberality of parliament had annually provided, without the slightest dissent.

supported the motion. The warrant appeared to him unintelligible, or, if he understood the meaning rightly, it contained a gross injustice. He believed the officers of the corps of horse artillery and other military bodies, had actually appropriated part of their pay to the formation of a widow's fund. Would it not, he asked, be most unjust, if the widows of the persons who had thus sacrificed their pay to this benevolent purpose, were told, because their deceased husbands had made a provision for them, coming within the scope of the regulation, that they had therefore no claim on the bounty of the country? His attention had been directed for several years to the general condition and circumstances of officers widows, who he thought had a peculiar claim upon the sympathy of the country, being in many instances women of rank and education, and being frequently left by their husbands in a very deplorable condition. The considerations of a moral nature which had been alluded to were also deserving of attention.

said, though there was nothing in the report of the finance committee on this subject, yet hon. gentlemen were not therefore to suppose that it had escaped the attention of that committee. There was much conversation in the committee about it; and it was well known that a serious misunderstanding existed between the army and the navy upon it, which had given birth to many pamphlets. The words of the act were the same, but they were differently applied to each service. No class of men deserved better of their country than the navy. It was therefore the duty of the committee to inquire upon what this difference was grounded between the two services—and, on examination, they found, that pensions were granted in the navy only where a specific case of necessity appeared—but that, in the army, the applicant was not bound to prove that any necessity existed. They felt it proper, therefore, that something should be done to remove the constant heart-burning that existed between the two services. The committee having proceeded thus far, left it to government to make any alteration that might be considered proper—and, certainly, if no alteration had been made, they would have reconsidered and fully investigated the subject.

observed, that the present regulation was one of considerable modification. The original warrant stated that those widows who derived from other sources an income twice as great as the pension, should not be entitled to it; it was now proposed that it should be withheld only from those who had an income four times as great; and that this regulation should not be applicable to the widows of officers who were not married at the time it was issued. This got rid of one of the greatest objections urged against the regulation; and those who married hereafter, knowing this regulation to exist, could not complain of any breach of faith. With respect to the two corps of artillery and engineers, which had been mentioned, it should be recollected, that they were under the control of the board of ordnance, who would deal with them as circumstances warranted. His hon. and gallant friend behind him had shown, that from the earliest periods, a discretionary power had been exercised in granting these pensions. At one time it was required that the widow should show she was unable to maintain herself without assistance. At another time the colonel of the regiment to which the deceased officer had belonged, or some other responsible person, was instructed to make a report to the secretary at war respecting the claims of his widow. It was clear, therefore, that the principle of exercising a discretionary power on the subject had always existed, although of late years it had not been carried into practice. With respect to the contributions alluded to by the hon. gentleman, they could in no case amount to such a sum as would purchase an annuity large enough to debar the widow from the receipt of her pension. The question as to where this regulation had originated had been answered by the hon. gentleman who spoke last. Though the finance committee had not mentioned the subject in their report, yet it was with them that it originated. The case of lady Gillespie had been mentioned. The allowance to that lady was granted on account of her husband having been killed in action. It was said that the measure was inconsistent with the terms of the letter set forth in the finance report. But inasmuch as the increased allowance only extended to marriages subsequent to the date of the warrant, it could not affect any thing done previously to that time. One ground on which the issuing of the warrant under consideration was recommended was, the equalization of the two services—the army and the navy. For this purpose the regulations respecting the widows of naval officers were relaxed in order to place them on an equal footing with the widows of officers of the army, and he believed that on that very day an order had been issued extending the amount of income derived from other sources which should bar the widow from receiving a pension to four times the amount of that pension. Some limit it had always been found necessary to adopt, although, undoubtedly, whatever that limit was, there might always be certain cases of considerable hardship which it did not comprehend. There were many cases in which it was extremely painful to be under the necessity of withholding aid. Where, for instance, the sister, or the relative, not the wife of a deceased officer, had been supported by him during his life, it was certainly very painful to be obliged to refuse any farther benefit. It was very distressing to the Crown, and to the servants of the Crown, to be compelled to have recourse on these subjects to strict and confined regulations. But for these regulations that House and not the Crown was responsible. They had been forced on the Crown by the tone adopted in that House on the subject of military expenditure, as well as by the recommendations contained in the report of the committee of finance. The new regulation was in strict consonance with the spirit of the order of 1708; and, under all the circumstances of the case, he could not help considering the motion of the hon. gentleman as entirely uncalled for.

contended, that instead of meting out the dole of charity to the widows of our brave officers, and making them almost sue in formá pauperis for the means of subsistence, it would be much more consonant to the character of a great country, which had been so gallantly defended by the two services, and raised by their united exertions to the elevated rank which she held among the nations of Europe, to give it to them as the just reward of the past services of their husbands. Such bounty would be twice blessed—it would bless those who gave as well as those who received. So accorded, even half the present allowance would be received with pride and satisfaction. He was speaking for both ser- vices. He confessed that he had professional partialities; but at the same time he certainly believed that the navy was the more important branch—that it was the strong right arm of the country. Nevertheless, it appeared to him to be impossible to assimilate the two services, on the point under consideration. The system of purchasing in the army, was of itself enough to put it on a footing different from that of the navy. He denied that this was a question of just economy.—No man could feel more strongly than himself how necessary economy was to the country. But there was a real and a false economy. Niggardliness, under the name of economy, did essential injury to a state, and compromised its best interests.—True economy would retrench the luxuries of the rich, but would never condescend to contaminate itself with the crumbs that fell from the tables of the poor.

said, that originally the fund out of which the widows of the officers of the navy received their pensions was not furnished by the public, but was formed by contributions deducted from the pay of all classes of the navy; to which was added (which was still continued), a sum obtained by a regulation similar to that stated by the honourable general near him, whose speech had done him so much honour, as existing in the army. In every hundred men there was one man called a widow's man—a fictitious man. The fact certainly was, that of every hundred men borne on the books of the navy, but ninety-nine were effective seamen: the hundredth was a fictitious man, called a widow's man, the amount of whose pay and allowances went to the fund for the payment of widow's pensions. A discretion had always existed on this subject. In the first instance it was confided to a corporation composed of naval officers. This corporation were empowered so to divide the fund appropriated to this purpose, that those widows who wanted it the most, derived the greatest benefit from the charity. He heard an hon. member echo the word "charity;" but as that was the term used in the charter of George 1st he might be allowed to use it. The first limitation that existed on the subject was, that no widow should receive a pension who had any other means equal in annual produce to that pension. Notwithstanding that limitation, the fund was so small that in several instances the naval corpo- ration were obliged to diminish the amount of the pensions in general. He believed that some kind of similar regulations attached at that period to the army; with this exception, that the Crown kept in its own breast the discretion to decide on each individual case as it occurred. When by Mr. Burke's bill the fund was destroyed, and the pensions came to be charged on the navy estimates, the limitation until that period existing was no longer necessary. Of late years the army had stood on a footing different from the navy in this respect. One cause of this difference had already been stated—the purchase of commissions. Another cause which had not yet been mentioned was much more operative, and certainly placed the army in a much worse situation than the navy. It was this:—When an officer of the navy died, whether he was at the time on full or on half pay, his widow became entitled to a pension. That was not the case in the army. Formerly the widow of no officer in the army who died while on half pay, was entitled to a pension; but by a regulation in 1806, it was ordered that the widows of officers who had served since 1793, should receive pensions, although their husbands had died while on half pay. When it was considered that half, if not three-fourths, of the officers of the navy married when they were on half pay, the prodigious advantage which the navy derived from this difference would be very manifest. The House would understand what an increase of pensions must arise in the navy on that account. Under these circumstances he entertained great doubt whether a real assimilation could exist between the two services. At the same time he was willing to admit, that it was a very complicated subject, and one which merited some inquiry; and he owned that he should be glad to see, either by the investigation of the finance committee, or some other means, what could be done in both services. One of the most forcible arguments which he had heard was, that the army and navy were not in the same situation; the army paid for promotion; the navy did not pay for it. Now, he thought there should be some inquiry, whether it should be abolished in both services, or in one service, or not at all.

warmly reprobated the declaration of the noble secretary at war, that that House was answerable for the regulations which had taken place on this subject. This was a most extraordinary assertion. Because that House thought it their duty to press a reduction of our military establishment—because it strongly recommended economy in the details and appointments of the army, the noble lord chose to assert that they were answerable for regulations of this sort, emanating from the Prince Regent, and over which the House had no control. The noble lord ought to recollect, that it was to too expensive military establishments that objections had been urged. Did the noble lord ever hear him (Mr. Calcraft), or any of those who thought with him, that our military establishment ought to be reduced, recommend a more niggardly provision either for wounded soldiers or for the widows of officers? In any speech which he had made, he defied the noble lord to point out a single sentence to that effect. On the contrary, he was one who stood up in defence of the regulations introduced by his lamented friend, Mr. Windham, for rendering soldiers more comfortable after certain period of service, nothing being farther from his opinion than that any paltry economy should be exhibited in cases which were fit for the exercise of the royal bounty. It was not to be endured that gentlemen who, by the reduction of a battalion of foot or a regiment of cavalry, might save a sum three times as large as was necessary for the required purpose, should turn round and say "You, the House of Commons, are responsible for these regulations, because you wished for a small peace establishment." Nothing could be more flimsy than this argument, and he was persuaded that it would be properly appreciated by the House and the country. With respect to the system pursued in regard to the widows of the officers of the navy he would say nothing. The two services were unquestionably on a very different footing. They were alike in nothing but in the glory which they had achieved for their country, and in the claims which they possessed to the national gratitude. To those who were maimed in our service, and to the widows of those who fell in our cause, we ought to show a just and wise liberality. Economy in other respects would enable us to do so; and it was for this, among many reasons, that he had so often and so strongly urged the necessity of economy. It appeared from what had fallen from the noble secretary at war, that the new regulation was to be inopera- tive on those widows who had been married at the time of its adoption. He could not see on what principle of justice it was to be applied to the widows of those officers who were single at that period. Those officers had purchased their commissions on the faith of having their widows provided for, should they marry and die before their wives. The same motive that influenced government to do justice to half the army, ought to induce them to do justice to the whole. No argument whatever had been advanced in support of a perseverance in the new system. The futility of that derived from considerations of economy, he trusted he had sufficiently shown. The noble lord who so lately thought the resources of the country were in a state to furnish fifty or a hundred thousand a year to princes, could surely not maintain that they were incompetent to furnish twenty thousand a year to the widows of our brave officers. He trusted parliament would take care that when these gallant men went into the field to risk their lives in the cause of the state, they should do so with the full confidence that their services would not be unheeded, and that if they should fall in opposing the enemies of their country, that country would have sufficient gratitude to provide for the comfort of those left unprotected by the patriotic self-devotion of men, but for whose valour and the sacrifice of whose lives there would now have been no free senate in this metropolis discussing the nature of their hapless widows claims. If the warrant now complained of was rescinded, he would undertake to show, tomorrow, five hundred ways in which the money might be saved.

could not help encouraging the hope, that the noble lord would find himself compelled to accede to the motion. The question had been argued with such ability by those hon. members who were professionally conversant with it, that it was wholly unnecessary for any one else to add a single word upon it. He could not avoid, however, observing, with respect to the noble lord's declaration that the whole House were implicated in the regulations under discussion, because they had recommended the adoption of economy by government, that it was an unjust, unwise, and unkind remark. He wished particularly to press on the attention of government and the House, the propriety of increasing by all means the bonds which drew the soldier still more closely to his country; and taught him he had to perform the duties of a husband and a parent, as well as to listen to those more alluring calls of a profession which, while it stimulated him to deeds of desperate valour and lofty ambition, not unfrequently seduced into the paths of voluptuousness and immoral gratification. It was certainly desirable to hold out every inducement to our officers to form such connections as would give them domestic habits, which were the vital principles of human happiness. A just discrimination ought to be exhibited between that constitutional jealousy which it was the duty of the House of Commons to entertain towards the army at large, and that mean jealousy which would show itself in diminishing the comforts of the individuals of whom it was composed. He was anxious that every thing should be done for both services which it was in the power of the country to do; for they had claims on the national gratitude which it would be impossible ever to satisfy; and, therefore, he could not but hope, that the noble secretary would, instead of looking whether there was any difference between them, accede to such measures as would tend to reward their exertions. We should give them as much as we could afford to give, and he firmly believed that the resources of the country were not in so utterly ruined a state, as to require the measure which it was the object of his hon. friend's motion to rescind.

said, that the regulation in question was a part of that system of economy, adopted in pursuance of the recommendation of parliament. The right hon. gentleman here entered into a detailed history of the limitations which at various periods had taken place; and in conclusion observed, that if it should appear to be the pleasure of parliament to extend the regulation in question, he was persuaded that it would be very pleasing to the Crown to comply with that wish [hear, hear!]. At the same time, he could not avoid saying that it would be extremely inconvenient to urge on the Crown propositions in the way in which they were introduced in the address moved by the hon. gentleman, which address, also, he could not help thinking too peremptory and dictatorial in its tone. Collecting that there was a strong feeling in the House in favour of abrogating the existing regulation, he recommended the hon. gentleman, with a view to facilitate the adoption of such a step, to withdraw his motion [loud cries of hear, hear!].

declared that he had never heard the right hon. gentleman utter any thing which gave him so much pleasure as the few words which had just fallen from him. In consideration of that pleasure, he would forbear from animadverting on some things which had been alleged in the course of the debate; being anxious to confirm the right hon. gentleman in his resolution to accord what he considered the just claims of the army. Before he withdrew his motion, however, he was desirous of understanding more distinctly the right hon. gentleman's views with respect to any further proceeding on the subject.

said, that he thought the measure would come with a better grace directly from the Crown.

declared his readiness, if the right hon. gentleman would engage to advise the Crown to rescind the regulation in question, to withdraw his motion.

expressed his willingness to represent to the Crown, what appeared to him to be the sense of parliament on the subject.

Mr. Lyttelton then, with leave of the House, withdrew his motion.