rose, he said, to move an humble Address to his Majesty, in answer to his most gracious Speech, which they had just heard read. In doing so, he hoped it would not be considered disrespectful, either to the House or to the royal Speech, if he departed somewhat from the usual course followed by those who had preceded him in the situation which he then stood in, by not following in order the different topics made mention of in the Speech, but by proceeding at once to make a few observations on what appeared to him the most important of those topics; namely, that which introduced to the consideration of the House, a subject that had for some time agitated the mind of every man, from one extremity of the kingdom to another—the present state of Ireland. It would not be necessary for him, in making these observations, to enter at any length into a history of the causes of the present condition of that country; indeed, it would not be possible for him to do so within the period which he felt himself justified to detain the House, and, he would repeat, it was not necessary to the object which he had in view. The last six months afforded sufficient data to justify his cordial concurrence with the recommendations of his Majesty's Speech; and to that time he would confine his observations. Since parliament had been prorogued, it was a fact too well known, that Ireland had been in a state of daily increasing excitement and confusion, arising from one cause or other, between the two great parties that distracted that unhappy country. That excitement and confusion had now reached to such a height, that it would be impossible for any man to say when an explosion would take place, that would defy no ordinary power to suppress, if circumstances were allowed to remain in their present condition. That being the undeniable state of affairs in Ireland, it became a necessary duty of the House and the government, to consider the best course to pursue, with reference to the empire at large. He apprehended there was but one course to pursue: it was not proper, nay, it was not possible, that the state of Ireland should continue as it then was. With that view, he thought the course recommended in his Majesty's Speech, and which ministers had determined to adopt, the best to meet existing difficulties. He also thought that that course was the most constitutional, and, what was more, the most straightforward, under the circumstances of the case, that ministers could advise their royal master to sanction, by announcing in his Speech to his parliament, the real state of the difficulties which the present state of Ireland presented; relying on their wisdom and support for the means of adjusting them. Under these circumstances, it appeared to him, when it was suggested to him to move the Address which he should presently submit to the House, that, considering the great anxiety which the subject had occasioned to him, though the part which he had hitherto taken in its discussion was unostentatious, that he should merely declare, that in concurring with the present views of ministers, he felt as strongly and as anxiously as any man could do, for the welfare and support of the Protestant church, from which he considered the happiness and liberty we enjoyed to have sprung. He thought it right, however unwillingly he might feel to take a part foreign from his usual habits, to declare, that he considered the course recommended to be in the spirit of the British constitution, and the one most likely to prove beneficial to the empire, under its present circumstances. He felt that Ireland should not—could not—remain in its present distracted state. He felt that it was hardly possible to expect a government in whom more confidence could be reposed. He felt that no fears need be entertained from the views which a subject like the state of Ireland presented to the illustrious duke at the head of the government, and to his right hon. friend, the ministerial leader of that House. There could be no doubt, from their character and avowed attachment to the Protestant constitution of their country, that no measure would emanate from them, at all likely to interfere with the hallowed rights of the constitution in church or state, or unaccompanied by full and sufficient securities. Under that conviction, he felt it would be unbecoming in him not to take his share of the responsibility of a measure, which circumstances called for, and which, he was convinced, would be beneficial to Ireland, and a source of general security to the empire.—He confessed he felt great satisfaction with that part of the King's Speech which alluded to the Catholic Association; for he considered that body to be the parent Of the evils of Ireland, and felt convinced, that until steps were taken to put an end to the violent proceedings by which that body had excited the Catholic, and, by its denunciation, the whole Protestant population of Ireland, there could be no hope of that calm and moderation, which must precede the prosperity of that country. He was happy, therefore, that ministers had determined upon suppressing that body, and of thereby preventing the serious issue which its proceedings were likely to have occasioned. He was happy that the injudicious advocates of the Catholic claims would be prevented by their agitations to augment the alarms which the more judicious had experienced during the last six months. He was glad of a measure likely to reconcile the interests and prejudices of all parties—those hitherto opposed to the Catholic claims, and those zealous to secure for the Catholics the full blessings of the British constitution. He trusted, therefore, that those gentlemen ho generally advocated the Catholic claims would support the Address which he would have the honour that evening to propose; for, though the steps recommended by it did not go the full extent of their wishes, yet still it advanced their object. He hoped, also, to have the support of those gentlemen who had hitherto taken an opposite part; as he thought it a reasonable expectation that this subject could never be considered under a government better calculated to do what was expedient than the present. It was hardly possible that the Protestants could ever hope to see two persons in power more friendly to them than his right hon. friend and the noble duke at the head of the Treasury. The next point to be considered was, whether this was the proper time for the discussion of the question. In the first place, the state of Ireland was such as clearly rendered something necessary for its relief. It was impossible that that country could continue in the state in which it was at the present moment. The people of Great Britain were looking on with earnestness, expecting parliament to take such measures as they hoped would succeed in settling this question. This was a state of things which justified him in suggesting this as the most proper time for inquiry. if the House looked abroad, they would see still more reason to think that this was the time to enter upon the subject. The Speech from the Throne had informed them, that the king "continues to receive from his Allies, and generally from all princes and states, the assurance of their unabated desire to continue the most friendly relations with his Majesty." No further back than during the last year, in how many beneficial arrangements for mankind had his Majesty participated! Under his mediation, a treaty of peace had been concluded between the emperor of Brazil and the republic of Rio de la Plata. His Majesty had also entered into negotiations with the bead of the house of Braganza, with the view of settling the difficulties now existing in Portugal. The steps taken, in conjunction with his Allies, for the pacification of Greece, had been successful. His Majesty had also succeeded in concluding a Convention with Spain, for the settlement of British claims on that country. All showed, that the foreign relations of the country were on a pacific footing, and therefore most favourable to a conciliating adjustment of the state of things in Ireland. In expressing his hope that his Majesty's beneficent wishes for the tranquillity and prosperity of all his subjects might be crowned with success, he could not but refer to the feeling manner in which his Majesty suggested the propriety of a full and perfect inquiry into the whole condition of Ireland, with a view to remove the civil disabilities of his Roman Catholic subjects. While his Majesty informed them, that the state of Ireland had been the subject of his continued solicitude, and directed his commands, that that state should be the subject of their serious inquiry, he, at the same time, in the most delicate manner, urged upon the attention of parliament the peculiar situation which he stood in as guardian of the Protestant religion in these realms—of "institutions which must ever be held sacred in this Protestant kingdom, and which it is the duty and determination of his Majesty to preserve inviolate." He could not help referring to the eloquent terms in which his Majesty had expressed his wishes, with respect to the caution necessary to be observed in removing the civil disabilities of the Roman Catholics. "You will consider," said the royal Speech, "whether the removal of these disabilities can be effected, consistently with the full and permanent security of our establishment in Church and State, with the maintenance of the reformed religion established by law, and the rights and privileges of the bishops and of the clergy of the realm, and of the churches committed to their charge." He trusted the House would bear in mind the sentiments embodied in the King's Speech, when approaching the discussion of the momentous question to which be had just directed their attention; particularly that part of it where his Majesty "most earnestly recommends to you to enter upon the discussion of a subject of such paramount importance, deeply interesting to the best feelings of his people, and involving the tranquillity and concord of the united kingdom, with the temper and the moderation which will best ensure the successful issue of your deliberations." There was but one other topic upon which he would comment, as he believed it was the only one on which a difference of opinion could exist; namely, the innate energies of the British constitution. He firmly believed that when the subjects required it, nothing was too difficult for the British constitution; and therefore, that there could be no fears that its energies could be spent, by measures like to that he had been advocating. Upon that point he could speak with some confidence. It was then somewhat more than sixteen years since he had addressed the House in a similar capacity to that which he then presented himself in; and he appealed to all around him whether the country ever had a more trying period. No person, however hostile to the then administration, could have anticipated the extraordinary events of the year 1813; and no person, however friendly to the government, could have anticipated the present state of Europe. The British army, under the illustrious individual who was beyond his panegyric had marched from the frontiers of Portugal to the frontiers of France, when Buonaparte once more roused and animated the hopes of his admirers by the victories of Bautzen and Lutzen. Then it was feared by some, that the energies of the British nation were unequal to the renewed conflict. But, what was the fact? Let the victory of Vittoria answer the question,—a victory that awakened the spirits of the British people—gained under one who then gave peace to his country, and who, at the present moment, was engaged in the same noble achievement. He took the liberty of introducing that subject to the notice of the House, because it proved that the means of the British empire were equal to all its legitimate efforts, and because it appeared to him a good omen that the same powerful mind that then conducted British energies to a glorious issue, was at present engaged in giving peace to the British empire. He would not trespass on the attention of the House any further than to express his best thanks for its attention to him, and to repeat his conviction, that never were circumstances more favourable to a final settlement of the affairs of Ireland than the present. He implored the favourable support of the House to the Address he was about to submit to it, and hoped, as all had the same object in view, that all would join him in saying, God prosper the efforts that are intended for its attainment! The noble lord concluded with moving,

"That an humble Address be presented to his Majesty—to return his Majesty our humble thanks for the gracious Speech which his Majesty has directed to be delivered by the lords commissioners:

"To assure his Majesty, that we learn with the highest satisfaction, that his Majesty continues to receive from his Allies, and generally from all princes and states the assurance of their unabated desire to cultivate the most friendly relations with his Majesty:

"To congratulate his Majesty, that under his royal mediation the preliminaries of a treaty of peace between his imperial majesty the emperor of Brazil and the Republic of the united provinces of Rio de la Plata have been signed and ratified:

"To thank his Majesty for having directed to be laid before us a copy of a Convention which his Majesty has concluded with the king of Spain for the final settlement of the claims of British and Spanish subjects preferred under the treaty signed at Madrid on the 12th March 1823; and to assure his Majesty that he may rely upon our readiness to assist his Majesty in executing the provisions thereof:

"To assure his Majesty, that we participate in the regret felt by his Majesty that his diplomatic relations with Portugal are still necessarily suspended, and to thank his Majesty for the intimation that, deeply interested in the prosperity of the Portuguese monarchy, his Majesty has entered into negotiations with the head of the House of Braganza, in the hope of terminating a state of affairs which is incompatible with the permanent tranquillity and welfare of Portugal;

"To express to his Majesty our gratitude for the information that his Majesty has laboured unremittingly to fulfil the stipulations of the treaty of the 6th July 1827, and to effect in concert with his Allies, the pacification of Greece; and that the Morea has been liberated from the presence of the Egyptian and Turkish forces:

"To express to his Majesty our satisfaction that this important object has been accomplished by the successful exertions of the naval forces of his Majesty and of his Allies, which led to a convention with the pacha of Egypt, and finally, by the skilful disposition and exemplary conduct of the French army, acting by the commands of his most Christian majesty on the behalf of the alliance:

"To thank his Majesty for having informed us that the troops of his most Christian majesty, having completed the task assigned to them by the Allies, have commenced their return to France; and to assure his Majesty that we fully participate in the satisfaction expressed by his Majesty, that, during the whole of these operations, the most cordial union has subsisted between the forces of the three powers by sea and land:

"To express to his Majesty, our deep regret at the continuance of hostilities between the emperor of Russia and the Ottoman Porte:

"To thank his Majesty for acquainting us that his imperial majesty, in the prosecution of those hostilities, has considered it necessary to resume the exercise of his belligerent rights in the Mediterranean, and has established a blockade of the Dardanelles:—And to express our satisfaction at learning, that from the operation of this blockade those commercial enterprises of his Majesty's subjects have been exempted, which were undertaken upon the faith of his Majesty's declaration to his parliament respecting the neutrality of the Mediterranean sea:

"To assure his Majesty, that we have heard with high gratification, that although it has become indispensable for his Majesty and the king of France to suspend the co-operation of their forces with those of his imperial majesty, in consequence of this resumption of the exercise of his belligerent rights, the best understanding prevails between the three powers in their endeavours to accomplish the remaining objects of the treaty of London;

"To return our acknowledgments to his Majesty for having ordered the estimates for the current year to be laid before us; and to assure his Majesty that he may rely on our readiness to grant the necessary supplies, with a just regard to the exigencies of the public service, and to the economy which his Majesty is anxious to enforce in every department of the state:

"To express to his Majesty our satisfaction at the continued improvement of the revenue, and more particularly at the progressive increase in that branch of it which is derived from articles of internal consumption, affording a decisive indication of the stability of the national resources, and of the increased comfort and prosperity of his people:

"To assure his Majesty, that this House is deeply sensible of the paternal solicitude expressed by his Majesty on the subject of Ireland:

"That we participate in the concern expressed by his Majesty at the continued existence in that part of the United Kingdom of an Association which is dangerous to the public peace, and inconsistent with the spirit of the constitution, which keeps alive discord and ill—will amongst his Majesty's subjects, and which must, if permitted to continue, effectually obstruct every effort permanently to improve the condition of Ireland:

"To thank his Majesty for the confidence which he is pleased to express in the support of his parliament, and to assure his Majesty that we will, without delay, proceed to the consideration of such measures as may be necessary to enable his Majesty to maintain his just authority:

"To assure his Majesty, that we will give the most respectful attention to his Majesty's recommendation that, when this essential object shall have been accomplished, we should take into our deliberate consideration the whole condition of Ireland, and that we should review the laws which impose civil disabilities on his Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects:

"That we will consider whether the removal of those disabilities can be effected consistently with the full and permanent security of our establishments in Church and State, with the maintenance of the reformed religion established by law, and of the rights and privileges of the bishops, and of the clergy of this realm, and of the churches committed to their charge;

"That, feeling, with his Majesty, convinced that these are institutions which must ever be held sacred in this Protestant kingdom, we cordially thank his Majesty for the declaration, that he deems it to be his duty, and that it is his determination, to preserve them inviolate:—To assure his Majesty, that this House will, in obedience to his Majesty's gracious recommendation, enter upon the consideration of a subject of such paramount importance, deeply interesting to the best feelings of his people, and involving the tranquillity and concord of the United Kingdom, with the temper and the moderation which will best ensure the successful issue of our deliberations."

said, he rose to second the motion, which had been so ably brought forward by the noble lord; that it would be needless in him to trespass but for a very short time on the attention of the House. He would proceed at once to remark briefly upon. the principal topics of the king's Speech. It was most gratifying to him to learn, that the foreign relations of the country were so pacific, and that, notwithstanding the apprehensions that were entertained last year of the effects of the hostilities between the emperor of Russia and the Ottoman Porte, peace was not, probably, distant, and that the pacific course pursued by his Majesty's ministers tended to uphold the dignity of the Crown and advance the prosperity of the empire. He trusted that, notwithstanding his Majesty had found it necessary to suspend his diplomatic relations with Portugal, the negotiations going on with the head of the House of Braganza would lead to the pacification of that country. It was also gratifying to find that the treaty of July, 1827, had been so successfully acted upon, that the Morea was freed from the presence of the Egyptian and Turkish forces; and it was a source of additional gratification to hear of the cordial union between the great powers employed in carrying the treaty into effect. The next topic of congratulation was the revenue. It must be gratifying to the House to hear, that notwithstanding the gloomy apprehensions entertained last year of the resources of the country, the revenue has progressively improved, particularly in that branch of it derived from internal consumption—the strongest proof of the stability of those re sources, and of the improving condition of all classes of his Majesty's subjects. That circumstance, conjoined with the prudential economy practised by ministers, in reducing the expenditure of the state within wholesome limits, was a source of great gratification. The last topic he would allude to was the part of the Speech which referred to Ireland. He was aware that that was not the proper opportunity for discussing the causes of the evils of that country; and he would only observe, that they could no longer be allowed to remain as they were, and that it was a great satisfaction to him to hear that it was intended to arm ministers with power to put down the Catholic Association. As long as that seditious body existed, so long would anarchy and confusion be paramount in Ireland. It was a body that, arrogating to itself the form, and even the powers of parliament, served to inflame the worst passions of the people, and to retard, if not destroy, the prosperity of that country. The evil consequences of that Association had reached to such a height, that it could no longer be tolerated; and either the laws must be obeyed, or disunion and anarchy be triumphant. As he considered that Association to be the parent evil of Ireland, he trusted the House would determinedly apply itself to the rooting out of the evil. But a far more important part of the Speech yet remained to be noticed. He alluded to his Majesty's recommendation to consider the laws imposing civil disabilities on his Roman Catholic subjects, with a view to their removal. His opinion as to the policy of removing those disabilities was registered by the votes he had given. He had always opposed the Catholic claims, because they never came before him with sufficient securities for the integrity of the Protestant constitution of this country, and he would to-morrow oppose any measure with a similar objection, no matter from what quarter it emanated. But, though that was his early and matured opinion, when he considered the state of Ireland, placed on the brink of a civil war, when men of every party felt alarmed and doubtful of their course, and when he considered that such men as the illustrious duke at the head of the government, and the right hon. the Secretary of State for the Home Department, whom all looked up to as the tried champions of the Protestant cause, and in whose integrity all placed implicit Confidence, declared that concession was essential to the safety and well-being of the Protestant church itself, and that some attempt therefore at concession must be made, he would confess that he did not feel inclined to put himself in opposition to their declaration; and he therefore, consented, cheerfully and willingly, to go into the investigation of the subject, to see whether something could not be done to satisfy the views and feelings of both parties. But, in admitting this principle, he begged to be distinctly understood as unwilling to go any further. He was by no means prepared to pledge himself to any measure that might be brought forward; though at the same time, as an Irishman, and as one, therefore, who felt deeply interested in the welfare and happiness of that country, he should rejoice at seeing such a measure brought forward as would prove satisfactory to his mind. But, while he said this, he reserved to himself the right of scrutinizing any measure that might be brought forward, and of opposing it, as he had done the former ones, if it did not appear to him to offer sufficient security for the preservation of the Protestant constitution of these realms.

said, that since the olden times of Napoleon Bonaparte down to the modern times of Daniel O'Connell, never had he heard from the Throne a speech so politic or one embracing so much matter; or one that produced so many feelings of joy in his mind. What could be more delightful than to find that the government itself had taken up the important measure. Although he, for one, had been opposed to Catholic emancipation, yet he always thought that the Irish people should be placed on a footing, so as to form an integral part of the nation, and contribute to the solid strength of the empire; and to any measure, having in view such an object, he was ready to give his cordial assent. But the present Speech was so comprehensive in its nature—so comprising all sorts and sizes of men and things, whether they looked to the Austrians or the Russians, the Ottoman Porte, or Catholic Emancipation, that its effect could not be otherwise than extremely joyous. He was also delighted to hear that our finances were flourishing, and that economy was to be the order of the day. With respect to the great question of emancipation, he would pass it over for the present; especially after the way in which it had been taken up by the noble lord who had seconded the address—a way which did infinite honour to him as an Irishman, as well as for the facility with which he had treated the subject. He had never heard a more moderate harangue or a better one. The manner in which that noble lord had performed his task was guarded and circumspect; for he did not say that he was prepared to go the whole length of what might be proposed, but reserved to himself the right to make such exceptions as he might think fit. Such was the case with himself; and he should wish to consider the whole proposal before he pledged himself to anything, though he was at the same time satisfied that when the ministry of the country thought it right to concede the point, he for one ought to give way. The Catholic Association itself, if it had any brains in its head, or any feeling in its heart, ought to see, that the best thing it could do, as soon as the present Speech should reach Ireland, would be to anticipate any measure of the parliament. The Catholic Association had now nothing to do but to shut up its doors; to put one of Bramah's best patent locks upon it, and to throw the key somewhere, where it should never be heard of again. Having said thus much, he would make way for greater orators than himself. He had stated firmly and distinctly what he meant; and would only add, that he was ready to go heart and hand with ministers; in any measure that they might bring forward for securing the tranquillity of Ireland.

rose to express his regret, that some explanation had not been afforded by his Majesty's ministers, as to the measure which they intended to bring under the consideration of the House. He wished to know what that measure was. He was anxious that ministers should state precisely the course which they called upon the House to adopt. He had heard the Address read. It was large and ample. It referred to many measures and many things. Was it, he would ask, again intended to take the whole question of the state of Ireland into consideration? Was the House anew to enter upon a question which had been so often before them; or was it now to be brought under their notice in the shape of a government measure? If so, he was desirous to know from his Majesty's ministers, candidly and honestly, what measure it was their inten tion to propose. The House had a right to know it; and the country, through them, had a right to know it. He should have thought, seeing his right hon. friends opposite still in their places, that certain rumours as to a change in their sentiments—rumours so public that they must be known to all, and so strong that they could scarcely be doubted—were, nevertheless, unworthy of credit. He trusted that their continuance in office was a safe pledge for the maintenance of our Protestant establishment. Indeed, he was unwilling to believe any rumours unfriendly to them. Still, he wished to ascertain from themselves their sentiments as to the measure which it was stated to be their intention to introduce to the House. He was anxious to know whether their opinions on the question had undergone a sudden change; and he would only take the fact from their own mouths. It was of the deepest interest to every man in that House and in the country, that their real intentions on the subject should be known. He did not blame those hon. members who had taken a different view of this question of Catholic emancipation from that which appeared to him to be the correct one: no doubt they had done so honestly and conscientiously. But he thought otherwise when he heard of a change of opinion, occurring in a short time, and without any change of circumstances [hear]. He would repeat—without any change of circumstances, by which it could be justified. With regard to the Catholic Association, had not the existence of that body been for a long time a crying grievance? Just four years ago parliament was called upon, almost in the same language which was now used, to put that Association down; and, during the last four years, their Statute-book contained an act passed for the purpose of putting it down. Was it not, then, the duty of government to enforce the law and put down the Association? But it might be replied that the act passed for that purpose had been found insufficient. If so, it was obviously the duty of government to call upon parliament to strengthen their hands, and enable them effectually to extinguish that violent and factious body. That would have been the direct, and honest, and honourable mode of doing the thing. But, after all, was this intended to be a sort of compromise? Was it to be said to the Irish agitators that if they would assist in putting down the Catholic Association, their other desires should be met and admitted? If that was to be the compromise, he must say that it was a base mode of achieving that object. It was the duty of government long ago to put down the Catholic Association; but, the truth was, that it was now too late to do so—" treason had done its worst "[hear I and a laugh]—it had done its work, and it was through the spirit of intimidation that this door to emancipation had been opened. He begged, therefore, to know distinctly, before he was called upon to give his vote, what the measure really was, that he was expected to sanction. He was well aware, that, by agreeing to the Address, he should not be, in any degree, pledged to any measure hereafter. The Speech from the Throne did not call upon them to pledge themselves to any specific measure; and the noble seconder had said, that he should give his consideration to the measure whenever it should be introduced, and that he should consider himself perfectly at liberty to vote against it, if he should think proper so to do. This would be all very well, if it were a doubtful measure; but the fact was, that the subject had been before the House for the last twenty years! Ingenuity had been exhausted on the question, so that there did not seem to be any further room for consideration. They were perfectly aware of what the Roman Catholics demanded; but, on the other hand, he wished to ask broadly and distinctly whether it was intended, for the sake of conciliation, to give political power to the Catholics; and, above all, he wished to know whether it was intended to give them what was the real key to all political power—the right of holding seats in the two Houses of parliament? That was a plain and distinct question, which he wished to be as plainly and distinctly answered. With regard to himself, he might say, that his conduct would be directed by that answer. He would take upon himself boldly to state, that he was never in his life more firmly convinced of any thing, than that if seats in parliament should be conceded to the Roman Catholics, it would be the means of destroying that Church which they were all so much bound to revere; and that it would be impossible for the Protestant Church in Ireland to stand many years after such a concession [hear]. Again he said, he was desirous of knowing to what they were called upon to pledge themselves, and his conduct should be then regulated accordingly.

said, he was perfectly aware that the term "to consider" in common—sense English, meant "to take into consideration." He would appeal to the hon. baronet, the member for Westminster, if he happened to be present, or to any other hon. member who adopted his views of the Catholic question, whether in any discussion of it in that House, the term "consideration" did not in his mind, and in the mind of the House and the country mean "concession?" [hear, hear]. Would any man tell him that such was not the meaning of the phrase? and that concession meant nothing more nor less than the prostration of Protestantism at the feet of the Roman Catholics. Then he would say, that if such was the understanding of every one in that House, was he not entitled to ask—and he asked it not in the spirit of idle curiosity, but in the spirit of that constitutional jealousy which, as a member of that House, he was bound to exercise—was he not, he said, entitled to ask, what was meant by this measure? Under what circumstances was it that the measure was brought forward? His noble friend who moved the Address had confined himself entirely to the events of the six previous months, as a justification of the course which his Majesty's ministers had determined to pursue. According to the noble lord, the question was so simplified, that it was impossible for ministers to adopt any other view of it. Was it to be gathered from this, that the system of intimidation which had been carried on in Ireland had led to this result? He for one was not clear that much weight ought to be attached to the expression of popular opinion at public meetings, upon difficult and abstruse questions. When such questions as the Corn—laws and Parliamentary Reform, which, as they knew, involved a change in the existing state of the law, had formed the subjects of discussion, he, for one, had never considered a public meeting as the fairest and best mode of giving expression to the public voice. But it was a totally different opinion upon which the public voice had been expressed during the last six months in England, almost universally, and in Ireland also. The people of England prayed, not for any change in the constitution of these realms, but simply for its conservation. They prayed, that the Protestant constitution which they inherited from their ancestors, and which he trusted they would defend with their lives, might be allowed to descend unimpaired to their posterity. That was their sole and simple prayer. It was his strong conviction, that the only sufficient security for that constitution consisted in the existing state of things. He was also convinced, that if any change was necessary in the existing state of things in Ireland, the course which the government ought to pursue was at once clear and obvious. It was a most serious charge against his Majesty's government, that they had allowed to continue undecided, until the prorogation of parliament, such a question as that arising out of the county Clare election. They should at once have decided that question, by a strong and summary measure, lest that election should have been carried into a precedent; as he was convinced it might have been most fatally, if the life of one human being had fallen in the interval which had elapsed since the termination of the last session of parliament. If the person, to whom the House must perceive he alluded, had died during that period, and if a new parliament had in consequence been called, the example afforded by the county of Clare might have been repeated in other parts of Ireland; and it was therefore obviously the duty of the government not to allow such an example to continue in existence. Was he now to be told that his Majesty's ministers had yielded to the intimidation of a body like the Clare people, consisting. of some of the lowest orders in the south of Ireland, and of the lawyers in Dublin—to the intimidation of men who had approached as nearly as possible to rebellion? And whom had they intimidated? Six months ago, it would scarcely have been supposed that such a species of intimidation would have induced the noble duke at the head of affairs in this country, not only to abandon his opposition to Catholic emancipation, but even to become its advocate. Before the House proceeded to take the subject into consideration, they had a right to know what measure it was which his Majesty's ministers intended to propose, and to that question he for one expected a definite and specific answer.

said, it was with feelings of a totally opposite nature to those expressed by the hon, baronet, who had just sat down, that he ventured to obtrude himself on the House. During the whole period, and that not a short one, that he had had the honour of a seat in that House, he had never come to a meeting of parliament with feelings of such satisfaction and consolation as on the present occasion. To think that, in one moment, he had seen an end put to that magic spell, which had so long alarmed many, and which seemed still to haunt the imaginations of the hon. baronet and the hon. member for Dorsetshire—to find that it had been all at once annihilated, was, indeed, to him a subject of the greatest satisfaction. When he said "annihilated," he spoke with some degree of authority, and not merely upon the strength of public rumour. His noble friend who had moved the address must know as well as he knew, that he had been hitherto decidedly opposed in opinion to him (lord Milton) upon the question of Catholic emancipation. It was, therefore, most honourable to his noble friend, and to those acting with him on this occasion, that, taking a wise view of the necessities of the country, they were able to do that which if their great leader had left undone, he would not have, as he now had, attained to the highest pinnacle of honour. Then he would have only conquered the foreign foe; but now he had achieved a victory—not, certainly; so dazzling to the vulgar, but more useful and important to the country than the battle of Waterloo itself, inasmuch as the victories of peace were more useful and more glorious than the trophies of war. The noble duke, and his noble colleagues opposite, had obtained a victory over what he might be permitted to call their prejudices. He used not the word in an offensive sense. He spoke of prejudices—of honest, conscientious prejudices—which it was honourable for men to entertain; and he was rejoiced to see those which had been so long entertained by his noble and hon. friends opposite at length abandoned. He would not at present enter into a minute consideration of the phraseology employed in the royal Speech, or in the Address. He should advert, however, for a moment, to two measures which were recommended by his Majesty: the one, the putting down of the Catholic Association; the other, the carrying of what was commonly called Catholic Emancipation. He conceived that the first of these measures recommended from the Throne was the condition upon which the noble lord who moved the Address, and his friends, had given their assent to the second, and that, unaccompanied by it, the measure of emancipation would still encounter their opposition. He, for one, did not see the necessity of passing a bill for the extinction of the Association; for the fact was, that the granting of emancipation would at once put down that body. The truth was, that the Association only existed because the Catholics remained unemancipated. Take away that grievance, and the Association would immediately fall to the ground. Indeed, if it appeared, as he did not doubt but it would, that the recommendation from the Throne was bonâ fide made in the spirit of fairness and conciliation, he was certain that the Catholic Association would not require to be put down. It would then be no longer in existence. He had thus taken the liberty of expressing the sentiments which he entertained on this occasion. He would only say, that whenever his Majesty's government brought forward a proposal to that House, to carry the great question of Catholic emancipation, they would meet with all the support, which he, in, his individual capacity, could afford them. With regards to the measure for putting down the Association, he would not conceal the fact, that it was a measure of which he could not approve. But if it should be followed by emancipation, he would not oppose it; lest his opposition should be attributed to factious or party motives, or to a suspicion lurking in his mind, that the other measure intended to be introduced by government, and for which he gave them the greatest credit, would not be a fair and honest removal of all the disabilities affecting the Roman Catholics.

said, he could not refrain as an Irishman, from expressing the feelings of delight and satisfaction which he entertained on this occasion. From the first moment, indeed, that the duke of Wellington had taken upon himself the high office which he at present filled, he considered him as the man of all others the best calculated to carry this great measure; and he was well convinced that the noble duke would not suffer a country in whose happiness and prosperity he was so much interested, to remain in the state of distraction and division which Ireland now exhibited. An hon. baronet bad attributed the measure which was about to emanate from the government to intimidation; but when he named the duke of Wellington as the individual intimidated, the hon. baronet had sufficiently answered himself. If that were not conclusive, he would say, taking into account the wisdom of the noble duke, and his knowledge of the country, that the recommendation from the Throne originated from a feeling the very opposite to intimidation. The duke of Wellington could not be intimidated; but, while he would never give way to such a feeling, it was not to be supposed that he was to be debarred from yielding to the united demands of the people of Ireland, if he imagined that the refusal of those demands would be fraught with danger to the empire at large. There had been violence exhibited in this country, too, but of a different character, and the agitators here had been of a different class from that of the agitators in Ireland. But if such feelings as had been exhibited in this country during the last six months had been suffered to continue in active operation, there was little doubt but they must, in the end, have produced nothing short of a civil war. He was convinced that if the duke of Wellington had not interposed, the faction in this country and their corresponding party in Ireland would have brought matters to such a pass, that it would have been absolutely necessary for the government to have interfered to prevent a civil war. He believed that the wise and well—founded alarm, arising from such a frightful state of things, had produced the present measure. The honourable baronet, who had recently addressed the House, had observed, that there were some questions of such an abstract nature, and so difficult of comprehension, that he never wished to see them submitted to the consideration of the great body of the people. For instance, the hon. baronet would not on any account appeal to their opinions on the subject, of whether they had or had not deputed any particular person to represent them in parliament, or whether they felt that they obtained sufficient food to satisfy the cravings of their appetites. Upon such a delicately abstruse question as whether a poor man could determine upon the fullness of his belly, the hon. baronet was unwilling to consent that there should be any appeal to the great body of the people. Oh, no! upon such abstruse, difficult, and recondite subjects, the hon. baronet would more than distrust the decision of a popular assembly. But in such simple matters as polemics and school divinity, or such questions as whether the faith of the Catholics could be reconcileable with their allegiance to their sovereign—upon these simple and obvious, and plain matter-of-fact-questions, he would appeal to the opinion of the mob, and he would rely upon their decision. Accordingly, in those districts in which the hon. baronet, and those who thought with him, possessed influence, such mobs had been collected to discuss such questions. It was to prevent the lamentable effects that must inevitably have followed such factious and violent proceedings, that the government were compelled at length to interfere, to save the country from a civil war, and to render Ireland a source of security and strength to the empire. He felt that, as an Irishman, he should be disgraced if he abstained from bestowing his humble tribute of praise upon those ministers from whose recommendations such benefits must spring; for he was confident that every landed proprietor of that country who now heard him must unite in the feeling, that the course now about to be pursued would, by adding to the prosperity of England, give security to property in Ireland. Every intelligent mind in the country must, indeed, admit, that all landed property was from that moment incomparably raised in value. The measure afforded him still further satisfaction, as it presented an additional security for every one of the Protestant institutions in Ireland; and he believed that after the passing of such a measure, those institutions in that country could then, for the first time in his memory, be said to rest upon a solid foundation. It was upon these grounds that it would meet with his cordial and hearty concurrence. Under these circumstances, he considered that this notice of the Catholic Association had come rather late; for he thought the probability was, that upon any intention being manifested to grant the claims of the Roman Catholics, the Association would immediately give up its functions. Indeed, he considered that the very recommendation from the Throne was a virtual dissolution of it.

said, he should betray the confidence reposed in him by his constituents, if he did not at once declare his determination to oppose, to the utmost of his power, all further concessions to the Roman Catholics. Notwithstanding the recommendation contained in the Speech from the Throne, and the repect he entertained for his Majesty's ministers, he felt himself bound to declare, that the opinions which he entertained on this question—opinions formed after the most mature consideration—remained unaltered; and that as long as he had a seat in that House, he was resolved to oppose with his vote and with his voice, any attempt to surrender the privileges of our Protestant constitution. It was exceedingly painful for him to differ in sentiments from his Majesty's ministers—from his noble friend in another place, and from his right hon. friend below him—but he could assure them, that the same conscientious feelings which had induced him to support their measures, under other circumstances, now impelled him, as an honest man, to oppose any proposition for granting political power to the Roman Catholics. He hoped, after what had taken place that night, that the people of this country would take the question into their immediate consideration, and that they would come forward and express their sentiments, from one end of the country to the other. If the establishments of our ancestors were to he trifled with, and a new constitution was to be now given to the country, he saw no reason why the example might not be more extensively acted upon, and why we might not hereafter, annually or triennially, review and reverse all the institutions of the state. He regretter to have been obliged to trouble the House with this short expression of his sentiments; but he felt it a paramount duty openly to express his opposition to the proposed measure.

said, that, although, perhaps, he had on this occasion indulged in over-excited expectations, which extravagant rumours had forced upon his mind, in common with that of the public, with reference to this all-important subject, still he must declare, that he had heard with very great satisfaction the important communication which had been made from the Throne, Some of the passages in that Speech were well calculated to give the utmost pleasure to every true friend of Ireland,—to every man who respected the conscientious feelings of his fellow-subjects,—to every man who conceived that his neighbour had a right, as well as himself, to the enjoyment of political privileges. There were, however, other passages in the Speech less wise, less liberal, less conciliatory, than those to which he had alluded—passages which had more of the old spirit of heartless legislation towards Ireland than was perhaps necessary. But, nevertheless, though he was somewhat disappointed by those passages, still he would say that he felt more pleasure on this occasion, than he had ever before experienced, because he now saw a reasonable prospect, that the peace and prosperity of Ireland would be accomplished, and that the security of the British empire, and the interests of the British constitution, would be strengthened and preserved, by a measure which was to place this question on a safe and permanent foundation. He thought, with many, that this was a great day for Ireland, and, in his opinion, the royal communication should be received with general delight. It ought to be, he conceived, a subject of joy and congratulation to England—an event which should excite exultation amongst Christians. It could not but give pleasure to British subjects who were anxious to promote union and peace at home, and to see the British name and nation respected abroad. The act now contemplated would, he thought, reflect infinite credit on his Majesty's ministers. Such an act pointed out the true value of place, and would confer the most lasting fame on the statesmen by whom it was planned and effected. He would sooner be the prime minister, with this charter of liberality in his hand, standing forward as the saviour of Ireland, than the Great Captain, whose fame resounded through all the world, covered with the glories achieved in the peninsula, and distinguished by the ensanguined laurels of Waterloo. It was a singular piece of good fortune for that great man to have lived in such times, and under such circumstances, as rendered it likely that he would be able to bring this important question to a settlement. It would be the consummation of that glorious work which Fox, and Pitt, arid Burke, and Windham, and Sheridan, spent their lives in endeavouring to effect, and would willingly have died to accomplish. Their generous minds had sowed the precious seeds, and their noble spirits would not envy the good fortune of the man, who, though he had not sown, was destined to reap the harvest. He now came to that part of the Speech in which allusion was made to the Catholic Association. He thought that a measure of grace,—a measure of pure liberality to the Roman Catholics,—would have done all that was necessary with respect to that Association; for, in the language of one of the most eloquent persons amongst them, they were told, "that the bond of the society was the bond of oppression—that the magic which held them together was the penal code." But parliament was now going to break up that oppression, and to remove those grievances which kept the Association together; and he would never present himself to that House again, if, when he said that he believed those measures would put an end to the Association, he did not feel convinced that such would be the case. He was sure that confidence, liberality, and concession, on the part of parliament, would be met, on the part of his countrymen, with a total forgetfulness of the past, a grateful recollection of the present, and a generous devotion from this time forward to the interests of the British empire. He hoped that his Majesty's ministers would not be deterred by such taunts as had been that evening thrown out, from persevering in the honourable, wise, and beneficent policy upon which they had entered, and that, above all things, they would act upon a generous and comprehensive principle; for, if part only of their rights were to be conferred upon the Roman Catholics, and they were to receive only an imperfect enjoyment of their privileges, all the distractions, all the anxieties, all the inconveniences and danger attending the present system, would continue, and would probably be aggravated by the disappointment which must follow, if the hopes now excited should not be fully realized. He, therefore, conjured ministers to pay no regard to the insinuations which had been thrown out by the enemies of emancipation, who represented the proposed measures as the consequence of intimidation. If the king's ministers had been defeated it was by time, by circumstances, by the progress of knowledge, and the extension of liberal and enlightened principles, that they had been defeated. They had been defeated, in fine, by their country; and happy ought they to count themselves in being placed in circumstances in which they suffered a defeat so glorious, and of which the consequences would prove so beneficial.

that if he understood the observations of the noble lord who moved, and the noble lord who seconded the Address,—if he were to take those observations as being expressive of the intentions of his Majesty's government, then it would appear, that extensive concessions were to be made to the Roman Catholics. Now, he, for one, would say, that although the noble lord opposite (Milton), and the two hon. gentlemen, who had recently spoken, might indulge themselves in a strain of congratulation on the subject of this sudden change of opinion, yet the announcement of that night to the Protestants of Ireland would be a source of surprise and sorrow. How it would be received by the people of England, let the Protestants of England themselves declare; and he trusted, notwithstanding the taunts thrown out by the right hon. member for Kerry, with respect to the expression of opinion in the British empire on this subject,—he trusted, that he should never live to see the day when public opinion, generally, calmly, but fearlessly expressed, would cease to have its clue weight with that House. The right hon. member for Kerry had directed the attention of the House to what he had been pleased to call mob-meetings. Now, if he knew any thing of public meetings in England, they deserved any other character than that which the right hon. member had ascribed to them. He could, however, speak from his own experience of thee character of the public meetings in Ireland; and he spoke in the presence of a number of his countrymen who could set him right if he were not correct, when he said, that the meetings held in Ireland for the last four months, were attended by a greater proportion of the rank, wealth, intelligence, and information, of the Protestants of that country, than was ever before exhibited on any public occasion. He thought himself called on to state this, and to defend those meetings when the right hon. member thought proper to denominate them "mob meetings." At many of those meetings speeches were delivered in a strain of eloquence, with a glow of animation, a force of reasoning, and an extent of intelligence, that would do credit to any assembly. It was not his intention at present to examine in detail the various topics contained in the Speech fro the Throne. It would be premature to anticipate the particular nature of the measure, with respect to the Roman Catholics, which was in contemplation. When it was brought before them regularly, he would then state his sentiments. He would, however, say, that his opinions on the subject of the Catholic claims remained unshaken. There was no man who more highly valued the services of the duke of Wellington than he did—there was no individual who participated more cordially in the public gratitude due to that great man than himself—there were few persons who entertained a higher idea of the talents and experience of his right hon. friend, the Secretary for the Home Department, than he entertained; but he could not coincide with their views on this occasion. He had not hastily adopted his opinion: it was the result of long and serious reflection. A sacred trust had been reposed in him by his constituents, and he should be guilty of a dereliction of duty, if any sense of public services, if any respect for political talents and experience, should induce him to surrender that opinion. He had felt himself called on, as it was not likely that there would be any division, to speak his sentiments, lest he might be supposed, by his silence, to acquiesce in that part of the Address which had reference to the Catholic question. He was fully sensible of the truth and justice of the feeling which induced his Majesty to declare in his Speech, that it was his duty, as well as his determination, to preserve inviolate the establishments in Church and state, and to maintain the Protestant reformed religion as by law established. He, however, could not help regretting that those with whom he had acted, and for whom he should ever entertain the highest respect, should on this one subject, have placed themselves in such a position as to oblige him to repeat the observation which he had formerly made in that House; namely, that the only security for preserving inviolate the Protestant establishment in this country, was that security which was provided by the great constitutional settlement of 1688.

disclaimed all intention of casting a reflection upon the Protestant meetings which had taken place in Ireland during the last six mouths.

said, that his hon. friend who had spoken last, his noble friend the member for the county of Buck—. Bingham, his hon. friend the member for Ripon, and his hon. friend opposite, the member for Dorset, would at least believe, that nearly the most painful circumstance that could be imposed on a public man, in the performance of a public duty, must be when after long acting with a number of individuals,—after proceeding in concurrence with them to the utmost of his power in a particular course of policy, he finds himself called upon, by peculiar circumstances, to separate from them. To separate, he repeated, from men for whose integrity, ability, and conscientious feelings, he entertained, and always should entertain, the profoundest respect, must certainly be counted amongst the severest sacrifices of a public man. But he trusted that his hon. friends would admit this; namely, that his Majesty's ministers stood in a situation different from that in which they were placed; that, in that situation, they had access to information which his hon. friends had not; and above all, that they stood in a peculiar relation to his Majesty, by which they had contracted an obligation, as responsible servants of the Crown, from which they could not relieve themselves by any reference to past declarations or past circumstances, from the duty of giving the best advice which they could form, as to any measure, under the then existing situation of affairs. That was their duty; and whatever might have been the understanding on which governments had been formed, with respect to the Catholic question, and whatever might have been the reservations which individuals had made when entering into the service of the Crown, such understandings and such reservations did not absolve them from the paramount duty of offering the best advice to his Majesty, upon any important conjuncture, and of being responsible for the consequences of that advice. He did not mean to answer the expressions of reproach which had fallen from his hon. friends. He admired them for retaining their opinions; and he only asked them, whether they would wish his Majesty's ministers to retain those opinions, when they appeared to be incompatible with the great interests which they were called on to guard? If his Majesty's ministers believed that adherence to resistance against the Roman Catholic claims ought to cease—if they thought that, upon the whole, it would be more for the interests of the country at large, and more for the Protestant interest, to take into considera- tion the entire condition of Ireland, it was their duty, with reference to those interests which they bad a common benefit in preserving, to give that advice. And he would unhesitatingly declare, that there was, under present circumstances, much less of evil, much less of danger, in considering the whole condition of Ireland by a united government, than there was in any other course which could be pointed out. He pretended to no new lights on the subject of the Catholic claims. He retained the same opinion which he ever entertained in reference to that question. He saw as clearly as ever the dangers which he had heretofore felt, as connected with that subject; but he had no hesitation in saying, that the pressure of present evils was so great and overwhelming, that he was willing to encounter the risk of those contingent dangers, rather than, in the existing situation of the country, to endure not only the continuance, but the aggravation of the present system.

The opinions which he had heretofore expressed on the Catholic question he still retained—but he must say, that, looking to the position of the government of the country,—looking to the position of the legislature,—looking to the disunion which had prevailed on this subject, in his Majesty's councils,—looking to the disunion which for several years had marked the proceedings of the two branches of the legislature,—and looking to the effect which all these causes had produced on the state of Ireland;—considering all these things, he must say, that there appeared to him to be sufficient reasons to induce him to accept of almost any alternative, rather than endure their continuance. For the last five and twenty years—ever since the year 1804—there had been a division in the king's councils upon the subject of the Roman Catholic question. The government of the country had, at intervals, before that time, been composed of persons who made a common cause in their resistance to those claims; but for the last twenty-five years, men holding different opinions upon that question had taken a part in his Majesty's councils. When Mr. Pitt returned to office in 1804, it was notorious that he entertained a strong desire to settle the question, by some satisfactory arrangement. He resisted, it was true, the proposition for taking the question into consideration; but he had done so on grounds of temporary convenience, and not from any reasons connected with the general principle. In 1806, when Mr. Fox's government was broken up, and that of lord Grenville and Mr. Fox was formed, the principle of neutrality upon the Catholic question was one of the covenants upon which that administration was founded; and it was matter of notoriety, that the same principle had been acted upon in the constitution of every administration which had been formed in the country from that time down to the present hour. It was perhaps as unavoidable as it was notorious, that every administration in this country for the last twenty-five years, had admitted persons who differed in opinion upon the Catholic question. If there was any error in being a party to such a system, he was ready to take to himself his share of blame; but it was an error in which many great men had participated. No man could lament this more than he did; but he believed that the difference which existed amongst public men upon the subject of the Catholic question was so great, that it was found impossible to make up an administration, which could have any reasonable hope of carrying on the business of the government, if it had been founded upon any other principle than that of admitting, in the members of the cabinet, a difference of opinion upon that question. Men were obliged to yield to the necessity of the times; and to adopt a course which, although they believed it to be prejudicial to the interests of the state, they knew to be unavoidable. And it was certainly natural, when the country was placed in circumstances of difficulty and peril, that men who had at heart the general prosperity of their common country, should merge for a time their differences upon the subject of the Catholic question, in the desire to promote the other pressing interests of the country.

He said, however, that the reasons which operated to such an extent then could not hold good now. This question was second to no other which could be brought under the attention of the legislature. There was no immediate and pressing danger now, which prevented us from giving its difficulties our full attention. This, therefore, was his first position—that, however expedient, or however allowable, it might have been for the government to profess neutrality upon the Catholic claims in other times, such a state of things was utterly out of the question now. At a time when there was scarcely an individual in the empire who did not express an opinion upon the subject, and who was not even making it the topic of his every day's discourse, it was impossible for the government to remain without coming to some decision,—without sending forth some explicit opinion, both as to this question and to those that were connected with it. These considerations had compelled him to come to the conclusion that, for the safety of the Protestant religion and Protestant institutions of the country, it was absolutely necessary for the administration to abandon the principle of neutrality on this all-absorbing question. Besides the embarrassments attendant upon a disunion in the cabinet on the Catholic question, there was the additional embarrassment in the disunion which, as a necessary consequence of it, prevailed in the Irish administration. Indeed, the disunion of the cabinet was calculated to create, necessarily and inevitably, a corresponding spirit of disunion in the constitution of the Irish government. As disagreement on the Catholic question was the principle on which the administration in England was formed, it was impossible to prevent the same principle from entering into the constitution of the Irish administration. Accordingly, there had been at one time a lord lieutenant in Ireland entertaining opinions unfavourable to the measure of Roman Catholic relief; and a Secretary entertaining opinions favourable to it. Again, we had had the lord lieutenant favourable to the claims of the Catholics, and the Secretary of opposite sentiments. This was the natural result of a divided cabinet; and although, there had been occasions, for instance, recently, of the lord lieutenant and the Secretary cherishing the same sentiments on the question, vet they were under the guidance and direction of a disunited cabinet. Thus, whether the administration of Ireland was united in favour of concession, or disunited against it, their conduct was always controlled by the principle on which the administration in England was formed; namely, one of disagreement upon the subject of concession. Seeing, then, the embarrassments which this principle had created hitherto in the construction of the cabinet—seeing, too, the embarrassment which its prevalence extended to the administration of affairs in Ireland—and seeing further, that these embarrassments not only continued, but greatly increased, he had come to the conclusion, that things could not and ought not to remain as they were [hear!]—not only for the sake of the question itself, but in reference to the public interests, and to the interests of the Protestant establishments, which it was their most anxious wish and bounden duty to protect, it was desirable that things should not remain in their present condition [hear, hear!].

Now, he asked his honourable friends,—who, he believed, would hardly contest this proposition, that it was scarcely for the benefit of the Protestant establishment that this question should remain as it was—he asked them to consider how it was to be met? Was it possible to set it at rest by forming an administration of persons prepared to resist concession to the Catholics, under any circumstances? Was it possible to do this in the present state of public feeling and opinion? If it was admitted then, that matters could not remain as they were, and that the principle of disunion in his Majesty's councils ought to be continued, let the legislature fairly and dispassionately consider what can be done. And, first, let them inquire, whether a minister of the Crown, anxious to support the established religion, and to conduct the affairs of the country with benefit and success, could honestly advise his Majesty to attempt the formation of an administration on the principle of permanent resistance to further concessions to the Roman Catholics? He repeated, "on the principle of permanent resistance," because he could see no advantage that an administration could derive from temporary resistance to the Roman Catholics; for if temporary resistance, founded merely on passing circumstances, was resorted to, the administration which adopted such a course at once admitted and conceded the abstract principle. If they declared that there were some reasons which, at a particular moment, pressed on them, as forming a sufficient cause for a refusal of concession, they conceded this point—that when those reasons were removed, the boon ought to be granted. For his own part, he had never seen any advantage that could result from opposing the Roman Catholic claims on temporary grounds. The inevitable result of placing resistance on such grounds as the expres sion of strong opinions, or the frequency of public meetings, the object of which might be to prevent the government from pursuing its own line of policy, would be to prevent concessions, but to prevent them on unfair grounds. He did not think it fair that permanent resistance should arise out of temporary grounds of expediency. He did not, therefore, think it would be good for the country, that a government should be formed upon the principle of permanent, unqualified, and uncompromising resistance to the Catholic claims. He, for one, could not advise his Majesty to attempt the formation of such a government, because he thought not only that it would fail, but that it would compel the settlement of the Catholic question at last; while, in the interim, those embittering animosities would have so far increased, as to make the settlement of the question much more difficult than it would have been before the constitution of such a government.

Considering that, in the last session of parliament, a majority in that House of 272 against 266, had decided in favour of further concessions to the Roman Catholics, to oppose such concessions would be to stand against an actual majority of the House; and any administration formed upon the principle of eternal and uncompromising resistance to the Catholic claims must ever have found itself in positive minorities. Was there the least chance that such a government could carry through parliament those measures which a rigid adherence to the principle on which it had been founded would render necessary? These were matters which he thought his hon. friends, in treating on the question, could not refuse to take into their consideration; but he was quite sure they must see how absolutely impossible it was that they should be overlooked by any member of his Majesty's government. The hon. baronet, the member for Ripon, should recollect, that to adopt authoritative and coercive measures would be to give a triumph to those very persons of whom he had spoken in terms of so much reproach. To make again the attempt which was made in 1825, would be to have the measure followed up by a declaration of that House, that the Catholic question ought to be conceded. On the fullest consideration, therefore, of all those circumstances which ought not to be excluded from their consideration, if it was intended to come to an honest and correct opinion on the subject, he was entirely satisfied, that the attempt to form an administration against the principle which had been acted upon for the last twenty-five years—an administration composed exclusively of persons who would offer an uncompromising, unqualified, and permanent opposition to the Catholic claims—would fail, and in its failure produce consequences extremely prejudicial to the best interests of the country. An attempt from which he expected such results as these, he certainly would never advise, because he thought that it ought not to be made.

If, then, it were conceded to him, that matters could not remain as they were, and that an administration could not be formed on the principle of permanent resistance to concession, it must be admitted that there was only one alternative—namely, a consideration of this most important question, with a view to effect such a settlement of it as should be satisfactory to all parties. He would again ask his honourable friends if they did not see in the divisions which the discussion of this question had produced between the two Houses of the legislature, an additional reason for endeavouring to effect, as soon as possible, a final and satisfactory settlement of the question? Since the year 1807 there had been five general elections in this country; namely, one in 1807, another in 1812, another in 1818, another in 1820, and another in 1826. There had, therefore, been five different Houses in five distinct parliaments, and four of these had adopted resolutions in favour of concessions to the Roman Catholics. The House of Commons elected in 1807 voted in 1812 in favour of considering the question of concessions, by a majority of 235 to 106. The House of Commons elected in 1812, voted also in favour of the consideration, by a majority of 264 to 224. The House of Commons elected in 1818, which was the only exception in these five parliaments, resisted the consideration of the question, but only by a majority of two; the numbers being 243 to 245. The House of Commons elected in 1820, passed, in 1821, a bill for the relief of the Roman Catholics by a majority of 19. Now, to consider the measures of relief which this branch of the legislature had pursued. In 1821, a bill for the relief of the Roman Catholics passed that House by a majority of 19. In 1822, a bill for permitting Roman Catholic peers to sit and vote in the House of Lords passed by a majority of 21. In 1825, the House passed a bill for the relief of the Catholics by a majority of 20. In 1826, the House passed a bill for the relief of the Catholics by a majority of 21. In 1827, the consideration of the question was rejected by a majority of 276 to 272; but in the last year it was carried by a majority of 272 to 266. In four, therefore, out of five parliaments, the House of Commons had come to resolutions in favour of the concession. It was not, however, so with the other House of parliament. And he must say he thought it became them to weigh maturely this fact, and see whether, in this difference between the two Houses of legislature, there was not to be found another reason for taking the question into consideration, with a view to the settlement of it. It could not be denied that the difference between the Houses of Lords and Commons on this point was an evil. Certain it was, that it acted not a little prejudicially on the government. The opinion of that House, which had been so repeatedly expressed in favour of concessions to the Roman Catholics, animated and encouraged faction in Ireland, though it was by no means intended to produce that effect. A proper line was not drawn between the proceedings of that House and the views which were entertained out of doors; and he had no hesitation in declaring it to be his firm conviction, that the expression of this opinion, on the part of the House, considerably raised the power of the Catholics, while it depressed that of the Protestants in Ireland. For five and twenty years the two branches of the legislature had been divided on this point; and he saw no means of removing the evil, except by a full and deliberate consideration of the whole question. No doubt any man who reasoned upon general grounds, and not from existing circumstances, would be justified in adhering to his resolution on this question; but, when it was found that such a resolution acted prejudicially to the government, it was surely but fair that that circumstance should be taken into the account, and admitted as a reason for the settlement of differences, which, no matter on which side the right might be, or supposed to be, were clearly proved to be injurious. In argument and speculation there might be error; but in matters of fact there could be none. These, then, he repeated, were the reasons arising out of continued division in the councils of his Majesty, and between the two Houses of legislature, which had induced him to come to the conclusion, that there was no alternative left them but a full consideration of the question, with a view to the settlement of it. Retaining his former views, and sensibly alive to all the dangers upon which he had before insisted, he still found that he could embrace this alternative and come to a consideration of the question, because he could not shut his eyes to other dangers, and to other inconveniences, which had resulted from the state in which the question had till now remained. His hon. friend had asked him what particular measure it was intended to propose. If his hon. friend would look attentively, he would find that there was nothing in the Address, which pledged his hon. friend, or any other member, to support the measure, whatever it might be, which would be proposed; and if the question, therefore, remained unanswered, his hon. friend could not justly take any exception to the Address, upon the ground that he was ignorant of the nature of the measure to be submitted to the House on this subject. But he would satisfy his hon. friend, so far as he was able, with respect to the intentions of his Majesty's ministers. First, it was their intention, in conformity with the recommendation in his Majesty's Speech, to arm the executive government in Ireland with sufficient power to suppress an Association, which had been productive of evils so notorious, that he was spared the painful task of dwelling upon them. Until this was done, and the ascendancy of the laws in Ireland vindicated, he did not think that they ought to be called upon to take into consideration the question of concessions. It was not intended, therefore, on the part of the government, to propose any measure in accordance with the concluding portion of his Majesty's Speech, until this essential object should have been accomplished. His hon. friend had asked him, if they had any specific measure in view, or if they intended to throw the question loose upon the House, and, having no plan of their own, seek for one among the speculative notions and the theoretical views of others. He had no hesitation in telling his hon. friend, that the latter course was by no means contemplated by his Majesty's ministers. At the same time, however, his Majesty's ministers looked upon the question as one which had been so repeatedly and so fully considered, that it was not necessary now to enter again into a minute examination of it. Formerly, such a course might have been necessary; but it would be idle now to consider the question otherwise than as one that had been fully and substantially considered. It was their intention, therefore, to submit to the House a specific measure, brought forward on the responsibility of the cabinet, at a period which they believed to be the most favourable, and as early as possible after the subject to which he had first alluded had been disposed of.

His hon. friend, too, had asked, what was the general character of the contemplated measure, and had complained that his Majesty's Speech did not enter more into the details of it. With respect to his Majesty's Speech, his hon. friend would, he was sure, perceive, on consideration, that his complaint was not well-founded. It could scarcely be expected that the details of such a measure would be developed in a Speech from the Throne. He had, without hesitation, gone as far as he could in replying to the questions of his hon. friend, but he must positively refuse to accept his invitation to enter now into the consideration of the details of the measure to be proposed. Not only was this not the proper opportunity, because those details could not now be discussed fully, but even if such a discussion could take place, it would answer no good end. The introduction of the measure would furnish the only proper occasion for the discussion which his hon. friend desired, and which would then be as full as his hon. friend could possibly wish. He had, however, no hesitation in saying, that it was the intention of his Majesty's ministers to propose a permanent settlement of the question, on what they believed would be thought to be a satisfactory basis. It was their intention to effect the removal of civil and political disabilities, subject, however, to those exceptions and regulations which to them appeared necessary—those exceptions and regulations standing on their own specific grounds. Other measures were in contemplation, but into them he would not now enter, contenting himself with stating that the principle which his Majesty's ministers had in view was to attempt a satisfactory and perma- nent settlement of the question, and the removal of civil disabilities arising from religious distinctions.

This was the general basis of the measure; but, as he before observed, they would reserve to themselves the power of bringing forward such regulations as should appear to them to be necessary. The measure, far from proceeding from hasty conclusions or lately-formed opinions, would he the result of the mature deliberation of his Majesty's government. It was not to be regarded, for it was not intended, in the light of a compact or compromise with any set of men; neither did it result, nor was it connected with, negotiations with any foreign power; but it was a measure solely of domestic and internal legislation, which should, without interfering with the rights and dignity of the Crown, secure peace to the country, and have no reference whatever to any parties or factions. To introduce such a measure in the light of a compromise or compact would be most injudicious, but to divest it altogether of the character of a compact would be an immense advantage; for the parliament would then be able to legislate for Ireland, without reference to parties, as it legislated for Scotland, or for any other part of the empire. This settlement effected, and the civil disabilities removed, they must deal with the Catholics as with the rest of his Majesty's subjects. He wished he could say that he thought this settlement would be productive of those advantages which many hon. gentlemen anticipated would result from it. He confessed that his estimate of those advantages fell infinitely short of theirs, and he had more than once stated the grounds of that opinion. One advantage, however, it certainly would produce—the public mind would be quieted by it; and if then there should be any attempt—civil disabilities having been removed—to trench on the prerogatives of the Crown, or to innovate upon legislative enactments, he was sure that such attempt would be at once effectually rebuked and punished. Religious distinctions, too, having been done away with, they should come to the other subjects connected with the affairs of Ireland in better temper.

His hon. friend, the member for Ripon, had said, that within the last six months nothing had transpire which could justify an alteration in views previously entertained upon this question; and yet, in the course of his speech, his hon. friend had alluded to an event which had taken place in the county of Clare, and had admitted, that the same event would have occurred in twenty other counties, if there had been as many opportunities. Surely, his hon. friend must admit, that this was a very important matter, as connected with this subject. His hon. friend had taunted his noble friend at the head of his Majesty's government, and indeed all his Majesty's ministers, with having allowed their fears to be excited, and with being intimidated into concessions. In his opinion, no motive could be more justly branded as ignominious, than that which was usually termed cowardice. But there was a temper of mind much more dangerous than this, though it might not be so base—he meant the fear of being thought to be afraid. Base as a coward was, the man who abandoned himself to the fear of being thought a coward, displayed little less fortitude. His Majesty's ministers were not, and had not been, afraid of the Catholic Association. That intimidation had been resorted to, he readily admitted. But, how had it been met? It was put down by the Protestant spirit of the country: and, if it had been continued, his Majesty's ministers were prepared to suppress by the physical force of the country, those offences against the laws which the moral strength of the people should prove unable to subdue. At the same time, he did not entertain the slightest doubt that, in the absence of physical force, and supported by his Majesty's loyal subjects alone, the king's ministers would have been able to destroy all attempts at carrying measures by intimidation, and that the wicked abettors of such attempts would have been involved in the ruin of their cause. In the summer the attempt was made and it failed. These, then, were not matters to strike his Majesty's ministers with fear, though others might. Fear, however, was by no means inconsistent with the character "constants viri:" there were many subjects which it might be impossible for him to contemplate without dread; there were many views from which he might be justified in shrinking. He would tell his hon. friend, that the disorganization and disaffection which existed in Ireland could not be looked upon without fear, and that to affect not to fear it would be to affect insensibility to the welfare of the country. He was not a man to yield to intimidation, or to be deterred by threats of commotions; but he could not understand the constitution of that man's mind, who, looking upon Ireland in its present state, could be free from apprehensions of consequences which might arise from allowing such a condition of affairs to continue.

But, the point which weighed most with him in respect to Ireland was this:—he conscientiously believed, that while this disunion existed between the legislative bodies and the government, a proper administration of the law by juries in Ireland was impossible. For these reasons, therefore, considering the absolute necessity of providing a remedy for this disunion between the two branches of the legislature in its bearing on the state of Ireland, and the probable aggravation of the evils so much to be lamented in that country, he had come to the conviction, that without reference to parties, it was his duty to advise his Majesty, that the barriers to the question should be broken down—that the whole question should be seriously considered—and that an attempt should be made to effect some settlement of it, which should calm the mind of every sincere Protestant, and satisfy every reasonable Catholic.

Having said so much, he was unwilling to trespass further on the attention of the House,; and yet he trusted he should be allowed to add a few words respecting his own peculiar situation. The conclusion to which he, in conjunction with his friends had arrived, had not been influenced by the recent proceedings of the Catholic Association, nor by the difficulties which might present themselves in once more meeting the parliament. The opinions which he now expressed were formed more than six months ago, almost immediately after the conclusion of the last session. At that time he communicated with his noble friend at the head of his Majesty's government, and after an attentive consideration of the state of Ireland, they were of opinion, that it was not for the king's service, for the dignity of the Crown, nor for the welfare of the country, that hostility to concessions to the Roman Catholics should still be persisted in. He and his noble friend were of opinion, that the time was come for a serious consideration of the question, and that there would be less evil in conceding the question, than persevering in opposition to it. Placed in this situation, he felt it his first duty to give the best advice to his Majesty: yet, in doing so, he did not forget the peculiar situation in which he stood: he did not forget, that he had for many years past, offered, he hoped not a violent nor intemperate, though certainly a steady and unqualified opposition to the claims of the Roman Catholics. He had, however, never opposed those claims on temporary grounds, but had always resisted any concession on abstract. principles. He did not, by what he now said, wish to find any refuge for the course he was now pursuing, from those sentiments which had fallen from him on former occasions. In the opposition he had made to this measure he had never professed to look to securities. His opposition had been complete and entire. That opposition, however, had always been confined to that House. He had never exercised it elsewhere, and though it had been charged against him that he had, he had not thought such accusations worth notice; yet he must now declare, that they were utterly unfounded, and that his opposition to the Catholic claims had uniformly been confined to the debates of that I—louse. It so happened that when this question was under discussion by the government, which was in the month of August, he happened to be absent from town, and in consequence wrote to his noble friend upon the subject. He was sensible of the embarrassing situation in which he was placed, being responsible for the administration of affairs in Ireland, and yet constantly in a minority in that House upon a question which was thought to be of the greatest importance to Ireland. Reflecting upon this, he notified to his noble friend that he concurred with him that there was no other course now open but a full consideration of the question, with a view to its final and satisfactory adjustment. The right hon. gentleman here read an extract from a letter of his to the duke of Wellington. It stated, that "on a question of so much importance, he of course should not be influenced by any false delicacy, or fear of incurring any imputations of inconsistency, from taking whatever part any new position of circumstances might require; that he was ready, therefore, to hazard any sacrifice on that point; that he had a strong opinion that the proposed concessions to the Catholics would not be satisfactory to the country; but that, feel- ing that all personal and private feelings should be subordinate on such an occasion, he was ready to do every thing in his power to promote the object in view." The right hon. gentleman continued. He knew and felt that all personal feelings should be subordinate to the public good but he could not help feeling at the same time, that his own position was materially different from that of any other minister, and he would willingly have retired from that interference in the settlement of the question which now devolved upon him. In the course of the discussions, however, connected with the consideration of this subject, his noble friend had said, that his retirement would greatly embarrass him; and this being the case, and it having been proved to his satisfaction that the difficulties in the way of settling the question, would be increased, if he pressed his retirement—he had said to his noble friend, that if such was likely to be the consequence, no consideration should induce him to urge his own personal wishes, but that he was ready to uphold in his place a measure which he was firmly convinced had now become necessary. His noble friend had done every thing in the power of man to render the measure about to be proposed satisfactory to all parties; neither had he, in the consideration of this measure, been at all intimidated by the proceedings of the Catholic Association. His noble friend had thought it his duty to advise his Majesty to resort to the proposed measure, and would not allow the fear of any imputations which he felt to be unjust to influence his conduct. For himself, the adoption of the measure had been proposed after much painful sacrifice. He had done all in his power to free himself from any engagements which might prevent him from exercising the most unfettered judgment, with respect to this vital question. He considered the path which led to a satisfactory settlement of it, to be, under all the circumstances of the country, the course most free from peril; and whatever part he might have taken on former occasions, with respect to this question, he considered it to be perfectly reconcileable with his duty, as a member of that House, and as a servant of the Crown, to do all he could to fulfil the solemn injunctions of his Majesty to consider this question, involving so deeply not only the best feelings of the people, but the tranquillity of the United Kingdom.

said:—Sir, it is not my intention to detain the House at any length on the present occasion; for I perfectly agree with the right hon. Secretary that this is by no means the proper time to enter into any consideration of the nature of the measure which it may become parliament to adopt, with respect to that most interesting subject which at present engrosses the attention of all. When a speech from the throne contains a recommendation to parliament to take any particular matter into consideration, it is not fitting that the details should be specified; for that would have the air of dictating to his Majesty's government the measure—which it is left to the wisdom of the legislature to discuss. It follows that we cannot have more than a general statement conveyed to us, and accordingly the practice never is, to ask for the particulars in the first instance. So far am I from feeling the slightest disposition to do so, that I cheerfully declare that I, for one, am perfectly satisfied with the general description of the proposed measure comprehended in the Speech from the throne; which general description I understand to mean, that the arrangement to be made shall be on a wide basis and of a permanent character; not a narrow niggardly measure—not a grant of a mere part or parcel of that which is required, reserving the remainder until some other season. What I understand is, that we are to do all that ought to be done, and that we are to do it at once; that the mind of the legislature is to be applied to the question; and that, after the due deliberation which its importance demands, we shall make to the Roman Catholics such concessions as may once, and for all, terminate the differences between us; that we shall give them what we can afford to give, and what they ought to be satisfied to receive. Sir, I say what the Roman Catholics ought to be satisfied to receive; for I entirely concur with the right hon. gentleman in the opinion, that this great measure, from which I trust such important benefits will result to Ireland and to the empire at large, would lose a great part of its value, if it were to be the result of negotiation or compact. Sir, I consider the Catholic question as substantially carried; I consider that all the essential parts of that question are irrevocably granted: above and before all, the admission of Roman Catholics into both Houses of parliament, as well as their equal eligibility with Protestants to the great offices of state, with one or two exceptions, on which it is quite unnecessary at present to touch, and the peculiar nature of which is such that the Catholics themselves must admit that it is but fair and just not to say necessary, that they should be excluded from them. It has been said by an hon. baronet, that some of those by whom this proposition is about to be propounded have changed all the principles which they formerly maintained, without any adequate cause existing for the alteration. Sir, if, even in the case of circumstances remaining the same, the result of a larger and longer experience should be to induce a man to change the opinion which he formerly held, and conscientiously to support an opinion diametrically opposite—even in that case, I should never impute to him any motives inconsistent with a manly and honest discharge of his duty. Sir, I prefer those who are ready to profit by experience, above those who live to grow more perversely obstinate, year after year reaping the sad fruits of long life, without the important, the melancholy consolation, of being able to set off against increasing age, augmented wisdom. But, Sir, I differ from the hon. baronet to whom I have already alluded, as well as from the noble lord opposite, when they say, that no change of circumstances has occurred to produce that change of opinion which they condemn. What! has no difference in the state of things taken place within the last three or four, to say nothing of the last five-and-twenty years? Undoubtedly I, and those who agree with me on the subject, have always maintained that no such change was wanted. We did not require the results of any farther experience to convince us, that concession to the Roman Catholics was as expedient as it was just. We, without the benefits of experience, contended in favour of the concession; as, having derived that benefit, we now continue to contend all the more strenuously in favour of it. But we all know that different men may see the same subject in various lights. I am perfectly aware—for I have heard it in all quarters—that the circumstances which have occurred within the last two or three years, and still more emphatically within the last half year have greatly changed the opinion of many persons, both in parliament and out of doors, with respect to the Catholic question. It has appeared to them that the elements on which their opinion must be founded have materially altered; and well may they think so. Sir, the observations which fell from the right hon. gentleman on the state of parties in the country, with reference to this great subject, seem to me to be unanswerable. If it be necessary, as all must admit, that the government of this country should be a united government, and act in concert for the public benefit, it is clear, as the right hon. gentleman so well stated, that of the two alternatives they must choose one. They must either make the Catholic question a cabinet measure, to carry it to its full extent and immediately; or they must make it a cabinet measure to deny it, and to deny it for ever. For it would be childish, indeed, to suppose that it would be practicable for any government in the present day to say, "We will resist concession to the Catholics, but we will not resist it for ever; we will resist it only for six months, or for some indefinite time until circumstances shall change." I repeat, Sir, that government must either at once carry, or must for ever resist concession. If they resist it, perpetuity of resistance must be the cardinal point of their policy. Now, that is impossible. I address myself to men who have not changed their opinions on the subject at all. If there is any man who hears me, and who maintains the doctrine of non—concession, in spite of events, in spite of experience, in spite of all that has lately occurred in this country, in spite of all that has lately occurred in the sister kingdom—if there is any man on whom the events of the general election in 1826 have been lost if there is any man on whom the election for the county of Clare in 1828 has been thrown away, and who still holds that great mischief must result from carrying the Catholic Question, and who still maintains that they ought never to receive any further concession—I ask that man to point out, either in this or the other House of parliament, the materials of which his Anti-Catholic cabinet could be composed [hear, hear!]. Sir, I contend that there are no materials in existence for such a cabinet. Suppose the right hon. gentleman opposite, unfortunately for his country, unfortunately for his own reputation, had continued to adhere to his opinion, that the claims of the Catholics ought never to be listened to, he alone must have formed of all the persons here—I speak of course of the persons capable of administering the affairs of a great nation—he alone, with the exception of one or two other individuals on the bench as below, and with the exception of one or two noble persons, members of a House to which it would be disorderly further to allude—he must alone have formed the cabinet by which continued resistance could have been made to the settlement of the Catholic question. It is quite clear, therefore, that the thing is politically, I might almost say physically, impossible. That being the case, the change of circumstances which it indicates will well justify individuals who formerly voted against concession in now voting in favour of. it. What is the change of circumstances thus indicated? It will, I presume, Sir, be acknowledged by every body, that it is expedient that the government of a country should be carried on by the regularly constituted authorities; that it is expedient that the government of Ireland should be carried on by the lord lieutenant, magistrates and other functionaries, aided by the regular body of the civil and military power. Now, Sir, I ask, has the power of the state in Ireland been, for some time past, effectually in the hands of the constituted authorities; or has it not been substantially administered by the Catholic Association? That is a state of things the continuance of which cannot be otherwise than mischievous. The friends of the Catholic Association—nay the Catholic Association themselves—must concur with their enemies in deprecating the continuance of such a state of things, as utterly inconsistent with the safety of the government and the peace of the empire. But, are there more ways than one of putting an end to this state of things? No man living will venture to say that it is possible to put down the Catholic Association in any way but one; namely, by carrying the Catholic question [hear, hear!]—And this, Sir, leads me to advert to that part of the King's Speech, which of course I treat as the speech of the king's ministers, on which, and on which almost alone, I feel any disposition to make the slightest comment. I confess, Sir, that I wish the recommendation of concession to the Catholics had preceded, instead of following, the recommendation of putting down the Catholic Association; and for this simple reason—I am as clearly con- vinced as I am of my own existence, that if the measures had been taken in the succession which I have described, the carrying of the first would have rendered the second perfectly unnecessary. Concession to the Catholics would have instantly put an end to the Catholic Association. The Association was originally created by the existing grievances; by their coutinuance it was kept alive; upon their redress it must die a natural death. This arrangement, however, not having been made, we have now only to listen to the propositions which it is the intention of his Majesty's ministers to submit to parliament. All I trust is, that the propositions will be so framed as to abstain from invading any general constitutional principles; and that parliament will not be required to pronounce upon the hateful alternative of either rejecting a measure, the tendency of which is to relieve the Catholic body from their disabilities, or to adopt it, at an expense of constitutional principles too large to be consented to even for such an object. What I mean, Sir, is distinctly this:—Great as would be the value of restoring religious peace and political tranquillity to Ireland, if those objects are to be obtained only as a consideration for parliament's arming his Majesty's government with powers over all classes of his Majesty's subjects, Protestant as well as Catholic, dangerous to their civil liberties, it will become us, at least, to pause before we consent to any such proposition. Into what, in my opinion, ought to be the details of the proposed measure, I shall, of course, at present abstain from entering. When we shall hear them, in detail we shall have an opportunity of exercising our judgment respecting them. I trust that, to use the words of the Speech, the powers which it will be proposed to parliament to intrust to his Majesty's government will be only "such powers as may enable his Majesty to maintain his just authority." But, I would fain hope that the news of this Speech from the Throne, and of the declarations of his Majesty's ministers in both Houses, when it reaches Ireland, will have the effect of obviating by anticipation the necessity of any new powers whatever. Of this I am sure, that if ever I have taken leave to advise my Catholic fellow subjects from my place in parliament (the only place in which I ever have advised, or ever will advise them), if they have ever condescended to listen to any suggestions which I may have thrown out for their benefit, I here declare to them, that I never more earnestly, I never more deliberately, I never so anxiously, intreated—implored—conjured them, by their regard for their own honour, by their regard for their own interests, by their regard for the interests of the empire at large, by their regard for the peace of their own country, and, above all, by their wishes for the success of their own cause, at once to be satisfied with the assurance in the Speech from the Throne—at once to be content with the commentaries of his Majesty's responsible advisers in both Houses on that assurance—at once to be content with the state of the question both in and out of parliament—and instantly, freely, I cannot say unasked, for I have asked them, but uncompelled, to put an end to the corporate existence of the Catholic Association, and to fling themselves without reserve on the justice of the country [hear, hear!]. If they comply with this advice, I will answer it with my head if it were necessary—but I will pledge whatever little credit I may enjoy with them for having long been the zealous though humble advocate of their claims in this House, that the question will be as certainly carried, and carried to their hearts' content, as if the bill had already received the royal assent [hear, hear!]. Nothing could then prevent its being carried; nothing can endanger its being carried, except its being accompanied by provisions injurious to the principles of civil liberty; provisions which will be wholly unnecessary unless they persist in meetings and other proceedings, the whole necessity for which, and with the necessity the justification, all candid and impartial men must acknowledge is, from this night at an end for ever [hear, hear, hear!]. It is almost superfluous for me to add that, laying aside all personal, all party considerations, I most heartily rejoice that this great work has been performed, by whose hands soever. Could I do otherwise? Good God, who would stop at such a moment as this to ask who does it, so it be only done? Who can care what party man profits by it, provided only the country derives the inestimable benefit of liberty and peace? When so mighty an advantage, civil peace and religious tranquillity—quiet at, home and strength abroad, is about to be secured, all petty distinctions sink into insignificance. We are united,—at least for a season; we are all engaged in the same cause. There will be ample time for discussions of a less important nature, after this, one of the most valuable, and extensive, and lasting benefits, has been secured, which parliament has for a century conferred upon the country [hear, hear!].

said, he had hitherto given his humble but zealous support to the government, in the confidence that the leaders of it were firm supporters of the Protestant constitution. He now found himself bitterly disappointed. He had listened to too many of the sound arguments of the right hon. Secretary on former occasions, to be deluded by the sophistry of the speech which he had made in his new character of Catholic emancipator. He would say that, in Ireland at least, it never would be believed that he had not been intimidated. He supposed that, if the details of the promised measure were not considered satisfactory, the doors of the House would be beset by the Irish Catholics now in London. Indeed, Mr. O'Connell was reported to have said, that if he was refused his seat in that House, "What if the hundred thousand Irish Catholics in London were to set fire to the four corners of the city." The right hon. Secretary had said, that he could not carry on the business of the government with the present House of Commons. Why, then, did he not appeal to the people of England, who were ready to return a House which would enable him to conduct affairs on true constitutional principles. He lamented that the right hon. gentleman's courage had failed him in the very moment almost of victory. Having shown such want of firmness, however painful the avowal was, he must declare that he could not again trust him as a leader.

said, he felt himself bound to take that early opportunity of stating that his opinions upon the Catholic question were unaltered. He had always been opposed to the concession of any further power to the Roman Catholics; because he was persuaded, that no such power could be granted to them with safety to the Protestant constitution. His opposition to that measure had always been most decided, and every day's experience confirmed him more and more in it. As long as he had a seat in that House, and breath in his body, he would give every opposition in his power, under any circumstances, to the claims of the Roman Catholics. He would merely add, with respect to this measure, recommended as it was from the Throne, that he was convinced that it would not only fail in producing those beneficial results which his Majesty's Speech anticipated, but would shake to the very centre the Protestant institutions of the realm.

thought that the proposed measure would be most injurious to the liberties of the country. He considered the explanation which the right. hon. Secretary had given highly unsatisfactory, and expressed his deep regret at the right hon. gentleman's abandonment of the principles which he had hitherto maintained with so much firmness and success.

said, he rose to enter his protest against the address. The hon. member for Dublin had correctly stated the opinions and conduct of the Protestants of Ireland. That statement he could corroborate in every particular, as to the county he had the honour to represent. A vast majority of the Protestants of that county, of all ranks and denominations, were against further concessions to the Roman Catholics; and they were actuated by no motives but a sense of the danger of granting to them political power.

said, that as an Englishman and a Protestant, he must declare the apprehension which had been excited in his mind by the language in the Speech from the Throne. He had listened with great attention to the right hon. gentleman's explanation, and he must say that a more unsatisfactory one he had never heard since he had a seat in that House. The right hon. gentleman had, at once and without reasonable cause, changed those principles which he had held for five and twenty years. By maintaining his former opinions, the right hon. gentleman was placed at the head of a great party in the country, and was supposed, from his repeated declarations of adherence to his opinions, to be the main stay of that party; but now he had left his opinions and his party in the lurch. What was the language of the right hon. Secretary when Mr. Canning succeeded to office? The right hon. gentleman had stated upon that occasion, that it was impossible for him to remain in office, holding the sentiments which he did upon this question; that he thought it his duty, rather than be guilty of any dereliction of principle or inconsistency in his public character, to withdraw from the administration of which Mr. Canning was the head; and that it was not from personal feelings, but because he objected to any individual holding those opinions being the first minister of state. Upon what grounds, then, did the right hon. gentleman now come forward to justify and make palatable, that measure, which, a short time ago, he made the reason for seceding from office? That step must have been taken from personal objections. He lamented the course which had been pursued by the right hon. gentleman, for more reasons than one. He lamented it for the immediate cause; he lamented it for the sake of the right hon. gentleman himself; he lamented it because, in future, no confidence could be placed in the assurances of any minister. He did not feel himself at present called upon to give implicit confidence to that minister whose conduct did not admit of explanation. But, whatever might be the resolution of the cabinet, there was, thank God! a power not less potent than the cabinet—he meant the voice of the people. He trusted that before this grand alteration of the constitution was made, the prerogative of the Crown would be exercised by the dissolution of that House; and he had no doubt, in that case, that the voice of the people would be not only intelligible, but would teach a lesson to future ministers which they would not soon forget. The hon. gentlemen around him need no longer despair of obtaining universal suffrage and parliamentary reform: they had nothing to do but to get up an association, and straight the alarmed minister would come down to the House with a proposal to grant all they wanted. Let them try an association, and, doubtless, in a few years what we have now heard upon the subject of Catholic concessions will be repeated of radical concessions [hear, and a laugh]. The hon. members for Aberdeen and Westminster cheered him. Well might they cheer; for their dreams had never so great a chance of being realised. Let hon. members say what they would, this had been the work of the Catholic Association, which had gained an ascendancy over the minds of his Majesty's ministers. However he might regret his differing from hon. friends with whom he had generally agreed, he should nevertheless fulfil his duty to his constituents, and oppose every motion in favour of Catholic emancipation. His opinion was, that the question was brought on prematurely. Not one tenth of the members of the House had yet conic up. Many members remained in the country, not believing it possible that such a measure as this was occupying the attention of his Majesty's government. He should have many opportunities, and he would avail himself of every one of them, of opposing the measure that was to be proposed; and if he should not be supported in that House, he should be by the general voice of the people. He disapproved of the recommendation in the Speech, and could not but enter his protest both against the Speech and the Address.

said, he was glad that this question was at last likely to be brought into a tangible shape, so that the House might ascertain, on the one hand, what was demanded in the way of securities, and, on the other, what was asked in the way of concessions. Year after year it had been before the House, but it had never arrived at that point when they could decide with clearness and effect. Up to the present time, there had been nothing definite. He rejoiced, therefore, at the prospect of this great question being definitively settled. No time had been so favourable for its adjustment as the present. It was said, that such a step involved peril. His answer to that argument was, that the peril of advancing was problematical, whilst that of standing still was certain. The peril that pressed hardest upon us was that of weakened resources, a divided people, an impoverished country, and the enmity of a nation which ought to be England's right arm. Parliament could have no better security for the safety of the measure, that would be proposed than the character of his right hon. friend.

said, he was no flatterer of ministers, but he could not help saying, that he highly approved of the conduct of the right hon. gentleman opposite. Honourable members had talked of the right hon. gentleman having deserted his colours; but what was it he had, in fact, done? He had torn down a standard which was inimical to the peace of the country. His words that night would lay low the Orange standard of the north of Ireland, and prevent the raising of the green standard of the south: Thanks, and not reproaches, were due to the right hon. gentleman for his conduct; for had those standards come into collision the most fearful results might have followed. Every man at all acquainted with Ireland knew that a crisis was approaching in Ireland; that property was valueless, and that all men feared some mine was ready to explode beneath their feet. But how would things be changed when it was known that the benevolent intentions of his Majesty expressed with regard to Ireland, thirteen years ago, when prince of Wales, had been uttered from the throne? He should have wished, however, that the two passages in his Majesty's Speech relative to Ireland had been inverted in their order. Had the last been first, the first would not have been necessary. The Catholic Association had declared that, as soon as emancipation was granted, it would dissolve itself; for, as soon as emancipation was granted, it would be useless, as the tranquillity which, by the papers on their table, it appeared to to have been chiefly instrumental in preserving in the south of Ireland, would then be established. Honourable members had talked of intimidation, and of ministers having yielded improperly to such intimidation. The Catholics would have been the veriest reptiles, had they not used every means in their power to obtain their just rights. If intimidation were a means, they were justified in using it. Was not the great charter, the boast of Englishmen, obtained by intimidation? The ministers of the present day, wiser than the ministers of king John, had not waited until it became absolutely necessary for the people to extort their rights by force of arms. The ministers of Charles 1st had braved the intimidation used towards them; they had waited until that period arrived; and the consequence had been, not only that the people extorted their rights, but, that it had cost the life of the monarch. In 1775, the ministers neglected the warnings that were given them, until the confederation in America was formed. Did honourable members wish the ministers of the present day to wait until another confederation was formed, which would, perhaps, have forced the Catholics to sever the ties which should exist indissolubly between Ireland and Great Britain? It was satisfactory to think that there were still noble hearts which beat with love of country, and high minded feeling which could sacrifice itself for the public good. He was sorry, however, that the part relating to the Association should have been introduced into his Majesty's Speech, as it showed that some severe measure was in contemplation; at least some measure stronger than had been hitherto passed to put down the Catholic Association. If such a measure were intended, he trusted it would be of a temporary nature. Besides, it would be unwise to make so serious an infringement upon the constitution, at the same time that our fellow-subjects, hitherto strangers to it, were about to partake of its benefits. He trusted, however, that the sentiments which had been expressed by some honourable members that night would render unnecessary any act of violence to the constitution. He hoped the people of Ireland would listen to the advice of their friends, and dissolve the Association. They would thus secure the benefits of peace and prosperity to their country, which had been so long distracted; but he hoped better days were about to rise upon it.

said, he did not rise to prolong the debate. There were some points of the Speech which he would readily pass over without discussion, but there were others, as to our foreign relations, with respect to which he entertained great doubts, and should probably hereafter ask for information. He would commence the few words he intended to address to the House by expressing the satisfaction—greater than on any former public occasion—which he had felt at the Speech which the king's ministers had advised his Majesty to deliver to parliament, illustrated, as it had been, by the clear, explicit, and sufficiently explanatory commentary of the right hon. gentleman opposite, who, as it appeared to him, would have been wanting in duty and prudence if he had expressed more fully the nature and purport of the proposition which ministers intended to submit to parliament. He trusted and believed, that this Speech of his Majesty would prove, in its results, the happiest communication that ever was made from the throne of England—a communication tending to produce national harmony and unanimity, in which England, by doing justice to Ireland, would widen and deepen the foundations of her own safety and prosperity. The hon, baronet, the noble marquis opposite, and the hon. member for Dorsetshire, whose consistency he un-feignedly respected, had talked of not yielding to intimidation. He had seldom ventured to suggest advice to his Majesty's ministers, but he would say, that they had a ready and effectual answer to this imputation upon them, and that answer was to be found in the language thrown out against them by those very opponents; for they had informed the House, and through the House the country, that it was their wish to stir up a spirit of popular opposition against the passing of the intended measure for the relief of the Catholics. This threat was held out against the king's ministers—he used the word not in an improper sense—but he maintained that there was an endeavour, by exciting the fear of a popular opposition, to dissuade his Majesty's government, or rather to deter them, from carrying into effect the measures they were prepared to submit to parliament. He was confident that they would defeat the hon. members opposite by persevering in their designs, in spite, not only of the popular opposition with which they were threatened, but the actual clamour that might be raised against them. In this manner would they show that they could withstand the real intimidation attempted to he exercised over them. He should think himself unworthy to take any part in this discussion, if he hesitated to adopt the recommendation of his hon. and learned friend. It was of no importance from what quarter this measure came, or by whom it was proposed or carried. It was a measure for establishing religious liberty and national unanimity, and for upholding and ensuring the safety and greatness of the British empire. On these grounds he should conclude with stating, that he felt greater delight at the transactions of that day than at any public event he had ever witnessed.

said, he could not suffer the occasion to pass, without stating that he cordially concurred in all that had been said by his hon. and learned friend. (Mr. Brougham), and more especially in the advice he had given to the Catholic Association; which, he ventured to say, was the wisest and safest, and the most convincing argument that could be addressed to the honest, though prejudiced, portion of the people of this country. This measure would unite all men in sup port of the justice of the Catholic claims; and all men would feel, that there was more of danger from refusing the Catholics their rights, than from yielding to the prejudices which, he could not deny, many honest men still entertained. At the same time, he must take that opportunity of expressing his gratification that, under circumstances so difficult as those in which the duke of Wellington was placed, he should have been able to prepare and mature the minds of so many persons, so as to induce them to comply with his views, and to bring to this point a question of such vast importance. He was unwilling to check the grateful and joyful feelings of the country at this measure, by any animadversions or remarks of any description on other parts of the Speech; but he felt it right to say, that he agreed in opinion with his right hon. and learned friend, in thinking, that there were some topics which required investigation. With regard to the statement which had been made by the right hon. Secretary, he considered that, so far from deserving any blame or reproach, for any part of his conduct, he was entitled to the support of every honest man; on the simple ground, that he had risked what he had done, for the purpose of a great public object. Let his reasons or his motives be what they might—whether a sincere change of sentiment, or a concession to circumstances—he had taken the opportunity of effecting a great public good. He must have conquered many misgivings, and undergone many taunts from his former friends: but he found, at the present moment, after a consideration of the difficulties of this question, that balancing the advantages against the disadvantages, the former preponderated in favour of the line of conduct he now adopted. There was no computation on the right hon. gentleman for the course he had pursued; on the contrary, there could be nothing more honest, wise, and upright, than for a man in the right hon. gentleman's responsible situation candidly confessing the difficulties of the case, and consenting to support a measure to which he had once strongly objected. He hailed the intended measure as the harbinger of peace to the two kingdoms, which would make the union a union of heart, and thereby fulfilling the intentions of those who brought about that measure. He hailed it as the means of strengthening the country within and with- out, in its domestic concerns and its foreign relations. With regard to the noble duke who had brought forward a question of that magnitude, he deserved the support, and he would meet with it, of every candid and unprejudiced man. Never had he anticipated such pleasing consequences as he expected from this measure, and when the duke of Wellington brought it forward, he should have in him, however feeble an advocate he might be, at least one sincere and honest defender.

The Address was then agreed to.