begged leave to ask his right hon. friend opposite, a question relative to the Court of Chancery. He had given notice of a motion on that subject; but his course would depend on the answer he received. He wished to know whether there was any measure in contemplation to expedite the business of that court, according to the view held out, in 1827, by the lord Chancellor?

stated, in answer to his hon. friend, that he was aware the lord Chancellor was strongly impressed with the necessity of some arrangement, to facilitate the business of the court of Chancery. He also knew that it was the learned lord's intention to submit some proposition to that branch of the legislature to which he belonged.

was satisfied with what his right hon. friend had said, and should simply move for the returns, without opening any discussion.

hoped that the noble lord would bring forward his bill as speedily as possible, for it was desirable for many considerations, amongst which a most urgent one was the expediency of fixing the period of the Easter term. This year, the day Of the month on which Easter Sunday should fall, was a matter of dispute; some asserting that it should be on the 19th, and others on the 26th of April. It was therefore to be hoped, that the learned lord would not delay his bill, nor await the report of the law commission, for a remedy for the inconvenience to which he had alluded.

said, he could not offer any opinion on the question alluded to, until he had consulted the law officers of the Crown.

, on presenting a petition from a parish in Somersetshire observed, that though this was the first he had to present, it would not be the last. This petition had been prepared under very different circumstances from those under which it was presented, but it was still important, as speaking the sentiments of the people against the claims of the Roman Catholics.

said, he had a petition to present against the Catholic claims, the language of which was so firm, but temperate, as to entitle it to the particular attention of the House. It was from the dean and chapter of the cathedral church of Chester, and it began by entering their protest against the extravagant demands and imperious tone of the Roman Catholics, whose claims, they affirmed, could not be conceded in consistency with the safety and permanence of the Established Church; and finally, it prayed the House not to sanction any compact with any foreign see which might indirectly acknowledge the existence of its supremacy in this country. The learned gentleman stated that, for his own part, if he saw any probability of success in any longer resisting these claims, he would still hold himself bound to oppose them; but he would say, that the security of the whole empire, in his judgment, called on the legislature to consider with deliberate attention, the claims that were made upon them; and he felt that he hould better discharge the duty which he owed to those who had sent him there, and to his country, in bestowing whatever time he could apply to the purpose of framing, devising, and perfecting such securities as would establish permanently and inviolably the Protestant Ascendancy in this country, than by wasting his time in single and fruitless opposition to all concession.

said, he had a petition to present from a large body of Protestant Dissenters in Liverpool in favour of the Catholic claims. He was glad that, by this petition, they had redeemed their pledge, that if the Test and Corporation acts were repealed, they would not cease to petition until all disqualifications were removed from others. The petition was signed by highly respectable men. He had shewn the signatures to the members for Liverpool, and they had admitted that none could stand higher. Among them was that of Mr. Roscoe. Last night, the gallant general (Gascoyne) had expressed his hope that the king would exercise his prerogative and dissolve parliament. But he was sure that if the cry of "No Popery" was raised, it would fail, as it had done at the general election, in 1826. Against himself that cry had been raised at Preston, but it had no effect; for he was returned by an overwhelming majority, though it was known he was friendly to the Catholic claims.

admitted that the names attached to the petition were highly respectable. He approved equally of the mode in which they expressed themselves, and the person they had selected to bring their petition forward; because they must be well assured that his own conduct would justify them in not committing it to his hands. If he was rightly informed, the hon. gentleman would soon be instructed by his constituents to bring forward a petition of a very different nature. He was quite satisfied that if there were a dissolution, the hon. gentleman would no longer represent the place for which he sat at present.

said, that the hon. member for Preston had stated to him, in private, the reasons that had deprived him of the satisfaction of presenting the petition. He felt that this was an occasion when he should vindicate his own consistency on all questions affecting religious liberty in this country and Ireland; and he would, therefore, state, that the grounds on which he had declined to support the repeal of the Test and Corporation acts were solely that he apprehended that, if it preceded the concession of the Catholic claims, it would operate afterwards as an obstacle to their success. The measure was one that must necessarily extend religious liberty to all classes of his Majesty's subjects; and he should, therefore, give his most cordial support to it. If on that occasion he was under any mistake, at least it was not applicable to this subject, about which there could be no misunderstanding, for he had expressly stated, that most of his constituents were Dissenters from the Established Church, and were much too enlightened not to wish for the extension of religious liberty throughout the empire. In that opinion he had since been confirmed by facts which had come within his own knowledge; and whatever was the impression under which he might have acted, at least it must be admitted by every one who had observed his conduct, that he was not one of those who wished to exclude any class of the king's subjects from the benefits of civil liberty, which was intended for all.

said, he would take that opportunity of offering a few words on the Address, although it was far from his intention to offer any opposition to its being received: but as he had had no opportunity on the previous evening, of addressing the House, he would say a few words on the present occasion. The Speech of his Majesty contained a recommendation to the House to take into consideration the civil disabilities under which the Roman Catholics laboured, with a view, no doubt, to bring about a reconciliation between that portion of the king's subjects and those who were opposed to their claims. He had sat for a great many years in that House, and had felt it to be his duty on all occasions, when this measure had been brought forward, to give a vote against any such proposition. Taking into consideration this recommendation to the House, he could not look upon it in any other light than that it was to form a great act of the legislature; especially as, it came, in this instance, from what might be called an isolated quarter. He must say, for his own part, that he had always been opposed to the consideration of the Catholic claims: those opinions still remained unchanged in his mind; and he could not entertain any expectation, that the result which his Majesty's government appeared to be aim ing at would be obtained. He, however, sincerely hoped that they might be able to succeed, because he was aware of its great and vital importance to the whole empire. He was well aware of the general feeling which existed in the mind of the people of England, and of that which existed in the mind of the people of Ireland also; he was quite aware that the settlement of the question, even though it should be settled in a manner contrary to his wish, was much more desirable than to leave it in a state of agitation. His only reason for rising was, to declare to the House that he should, during the further progress of the measure, watch with the greatest anxiety what that measure was to be—that he should, with the utmost anxiety, endeavour to procure for that portion which had hitherto been contradistinguished from the Roman Catholics by the term of the Protestant part of his Majesty's subjects, the best terms of capitulation that he could, for the safety and inviolability of those interests which, for so many years, had been the exclusive right of the Protestants of the country.

said, he would take that opportunity of briefly, but freely, looking at the situation in which that House was placed by the recommendation of his Majesty; and he should do this the more freely, as he stood untrammelled by any circumstance that could be supposed to give him an undue bias on the subject. He was no Orangeman—he was no Bruns-wicker; neither the one nor the other had the smallest claim upon him. On the contrary, he had subjected himself to much inconvenience and attack by refusing to join those parties. At the same time he must state, that it was the furthest from his intention to express any sentiment in favour of those Associations. As he had said before, he had always steadfastly refused to have any thing to do with them. The reason that induced him now to interfere with the subject was, the hope of being able to point out the necessity of making what he would call a Protestant settlement of this question; for this there was an absolute necessity. He did not mean to cast blame upon any one; but he must say, that it appeared to him, that for many years, there had been no efficient, no real government in Ireland [hear, hear!]. He was quite willing to admit that that was the fault of nobody; but, on the contrary, resulted from the adherence to principle of those individuals who collectively formed the British cabinet. In this extraordinary dilemma, one of two things must necessarily be the result: if they were to have a government in Ireland strong enough to act on any definite principle (whether that principle should he Catholic or Protestant), it was impossible that the British government should be sufficiently strong to act as the head; on the contrary, if the British cabinet comprehended such statesmen as were adequate to their task, it was incompetent, with that state of things, that their representatives in Ireland should act on any definite plan.—He would now mention the grounds which had induced him to change his course. The government in Ireland had laid the flattering unction to their soul that they should be able to manage matters so as "to give a triumph to neither party;" but the consequence had been, that they had accorded a triumph to every party, and had shrunk under their own weakness; the natural result of which had been, that they displayed nothing but deafness towards Protestant remonstrance on one hand, and blindness to Catholic violence, on the other. But, though the government of Ireland was, by the course it pursued, rendered thus feeble and undecided, another government arose, in which the real power of the country might be said to be vested—a government that arrogated every thing to itself, and that did not scruple to spread its power, by means of every possible ramification. He hardly need say, that he alluded to the Catholic Association, which for some time had exercised a higher and more powerful sway than any other government in that country. Whoever had watched what bad been taking place in Ireland during the last few months—whoever had observed the course that had been pursued by that body—would find it impossible to deny that fact. This newly-created government had been moulded into the form of the purest democracy, but at the same time it was furnished with all necessary arrangements to carry on its machinery; it had its established church, which was connected with it in a manner that no other church had ever yet been connected with any government. It had its own separate army of tax-gatherers to collect its funds and supplies. It had its own system of finance—its own organised militia; and—that nothing might be wanting—it had its distribution of offices and honours. All these things bore an extraordinary similitude to what took place in the time of Charles 1st, just before the breaking out of the civil war. There were two governments in England then, as there were two in Ireland now. The great question, then, was, what that House, under these circumstances, was to do?—what course it would be wise to pursue?—what steps it would be prudent to adopt? But, while they considered this, he begged to caution them that there was no change in affairs in Ireland; parties might appear to he quiet, but they were only resting on their arms, in expectation of what should next take place. Indeed, he did not hesitate to say, that things were as nearly as possible ripe for a civil war, and that it was difficult to tell how soon the first flames of it might burst out. There were, in his view of the case, three plans, one of which his Majesty's ministers would be compelled to adopt in their settlement of this most important question. The first was, to leave the result to the issue of a civil war, for such must be the inevitable consequence of interfering in no way; the second was a settlement of the Catholic claims upon Catholic principles; and the third was a settlement of those claims upon Protestant principles and upon Protestant policy. With respect, then, to the first he might safely assert, that no member of his Majesty's government could say that he would not deserve impeachment, if he suffered matters to proceed to such an issue; and, for himself, he would say, that he would not only not endure the responsibility of suffering such a result, but would necessarily consider it his bounden duty to do the utmost to prevent it. With respect to the second plan, he should always resist it; and, if any portion of the intended measure were founded upon such a principle, it could never have his support. He was, however, happy to have an opportunity of stating his conviction that, as the measure was placed in the hands of those with whom it now remained, the course that would he pursued would be essentially the reverse of this second plan; and he could not but regard the noble duke at the head of his Majesty's government, the right hon. secretary who represented the government, in that House, and the other members of the cabinet, as sufficient guarantees of a resolute determination to uphold the interests of the Protestant church. There was not a member of that cabinet in whom he could not repose entire confidence; and he felt assured that their conduct would be guided by the deepest desire to preserve uninjured the Protestant church of Great Britain. He would not now enter upon that portion of the subject which related to the securities to be demanded and received. But he wished to call the attention of the House briefly to the difference between concessions upon Catholic and concessions upon Protestant principles. If the Roman Catholics were to be admitted into office, or to seats in that House, it ought to be required of them that their religion should in no way make its appearance in the discharge of the functions of that office; they should be required to shut their religion up within their own hearts—to leave the tenets of their church at the door of parliament, and shut that door upon it. If the question were to be looked at on the mere score of expediency, all past experience shewed that the discipline and doctrine of the Roman Catholic church were incompatible with the principles of the British constitution; and, therefore, though the Roman Catholics might at first be let in through good humour, yet he was fearful that it would be found before long that they were troublesome inmates. Thus much might be said on the ground of expediency alone; but he could tell the House, that the great majority of the people of England stood upon much higher feelings than that of expediency; and he earnestly entreated the House not to proceed any further, without examining into the nature and extent of the proposed measure. He would venture to predict, that the entire success of the measure depended on consulting those peculiar feelings, which arose from their having been taught from their childhood, that the Roman Catholic religion was vitally erroneous in its principles. He knew that there were persons who thought that all religions were equally good, and that there were others who thought them all equally indifferent. It might suit the taste of such individuals to see two churches essentially opposed to each other, co-existing and established together; that they might, thus, as it were, neutralize each other. But such was not the wish of the people of England; nor was such his feeling. He would repeat his conviction, that it was absolutely necessary for his Majesty's government to interfere, and do some thing to avert the consequences which would otherwise result from the existing state of things in Ireland.

said, he rose with feelings of peculiar satisfaction to congratulate the House and the country upon the happy announcement contained in his Majesty's Speech. He looked upon the decision to which the House had last night come, as the most fortunate circumstance, the happiest event, that could be found recorded in the page of Irish history for a long period. He looked upon it as the dawn of the prosperity of Ireland, after her long night of misery and wretchedness. It afforded him the greatest pleasure to perceive, that at length that healing measure of concession was about being passed, which would introduce happiness and concord into his native country, develop her resources, awaken her latent energies, and enable her to take her proper station among the nations of the world. These were not new feelings in his mind. When last year the Catholic question was brought under discussion, he had taken no part in the debate. His mind had already begun to doubt, whether his further opposition to the Catholic claims would be justifiable. But he had to encounter a hard struggle against many and great difficulties. He was the representative of one of the most anti-Catholic counties in Ireland: by family ties he was closely connected with one of the most Protestant families in that country—a family that had been unfairly and cruelly persecuted by the Roman Catholics of Ireland The doubts which had at that time flashed across his mind merely induced him to pause in his opposition to the Catholic claims; but, in the strict sense of the word, he was still unfriendly to them. In this state of mind he went to Ireland: and here he would declare firmly and sincerely, and he only asked for this declaration the credit which was due to the solemn asseveration of a gentleman—that he went to Ireland in the most perfect ignorance as to what might be the intentions of his Majesty's government on the subject of Catholic emancipation. He went to Ireland; and what did he witness in that country? Every man arrayed in a manner, against the members of his own family—every institution in the country perverted to the most pernicious purposes—every cabin turned into a scene of persecution, and all classes of Irishmen marshalled in hostile clubs and associations. He saw that the spirit of faction had pervaded every quarter and every department; and he beheld juries, and grand juries, and every other establishment in the country, perverted to its purposes. At that moment, and while he was under the impression of these feelings, there occurred, in the city of Londonderry, a celebration of one of the great Protestant anniversaries, at which he was called upon to attend. When he heard there sentiments uttered by a gentleman which, knowing the strong Protestant feelings by which he was actuated, appeared to contemplate nothing short of the total destruction of the Roman Catholics of the country, he could not, as an honest man, encourage those persons in the prosecution of what he considered the destruction of his Roman Catholic fellow-citizens. As an Irishman and a Christian, he felt it his duty not to sanction projects which tended to a civil war, nor to lend his aid to kindle the flame which the persons who then surrounded him appeared anxious to light up throughout the country. It was said, that he had been intimidated by the Catholic Association. No such feeling swayed his mind on that occasion. The power of the Catholic Association did not extend to the Protestant county of Derry, and he had nothing to fear from them there. But he was actuated by a fear of which he was not now ashamed,—a fear which became a loyal and a good subject,—a fear which, as an honest man and a Christian, he felt, lest the flames of civil war should be lighted up throughout his native country, and the blood of his fellow countrymen should, in the streets, and highways, be poured forth in a sanguinary and desolating warfare. Under these circumstances, he had attended this meeting in Derry, and delivered the speech which had since attracted so much animadversion. It appeared to him that the sentiments which he uttered upon that occasion were those of common sense. He thought that the time had arrived for a public declaration of those sentiments. Without the smallest knowledge at the moment, as to what was in contemplation in this country, he there publicly avowed his conviction of the necessity of conceding the Catholic claims, and he was determined to follow up that avowal by his vote in that House in their favour. He was therefore de- lighted and gratified beyond measure now to find, that the sentiments which he then expressed proved to be also the sentiments of his Majesty's government. He was rejoiced that this question bad been taken up by the government; being firmly convinced, that the concession of the Catholic claims would afford the best security for the maintenance of the Protestant church and institutions in Ireland; it would tranquillize the country, amalgamate its inhabitants, and open new sources of wealth and prosperity. These were his matured, and well-considered opinions. He was glad to find that similar opinions were entertained by his Majesty's government; and, whether he should continue connected with that government or not, they should have his most cordial support [cheers]. He trusted that the measure decided upon by the government would be introduced at once. For himself, his mind was made up on the subject; and he had already expressed his solemn conviction, that the claims of the Catholics of Ireland ought no longer to be delayed.

said, that in rising to trouble the House with a few words upon this important question, he could not refrain, in the first instance, from expressing the feelings of delight and gratification with which he had listened to the eloquent and manly speech of the right hon. gentleman who had just sat down. The communication which had been yesterday made to parliament by his Majesty's government, considered in all its bearings, was, in his opinion, looking to all its consequences, the most important and the happiest event that had occurred in this country since the accession of the House of Brunswick to the throne of these realms. Standing in his place in that House, and having had the honour of a seat in it ever since the first agitation of the Catholic question, and anxious as he was for the success of that great question, it was with infinite delight and gratification, that he found his Majesty's ministers recommending it to the deliberate consideration of the House, and announcing their intention of bringing the question forward as a government question, and of course giving to it all that just influence and means of persuasion which belonged to the executive of this country. It had gratified him, as it had gratified many of his friends, that the person who now proposed this measure to the House, so pregnant with the most beneficial results, was the individual who, from his first appearance in public life, had felt it to be his duty to give a sincere, a fair, and honourable, but at the same time an uncompromising and decided opposition to this question.—His right hon. friend, the member for the University of Oxford, in his speech last night, had very properly abstained from going into any explanation of the details of the great measure now placed in his hands. But looking at the communication from the throne, and at the sentiments expressed by his right hon. friend, he was satisfied that it was to be a measure of grace. As such he trusted it would be received by those for whose benefit it was proposed; and he further hoped, that it would be ample, liberal, and adequate to the great and important purpose for which it was intended. It was for such a purpose and with such a view that he, and those who voted with him on this question, had uniformly recommended this measure,—with a view (to use the words of the resolution which they had so frequently carried in that House) "to strengthen the connexion between the two countries, to increase the stability and security of the Protestant establishment, and to diffuse happiness and concord amongst all classes of his Majesty's subjects." He confidently hoped that such results would follow from the measure about to be proposed to the consideration of the House. At all events, it was a subject for congratulation, that the over-powering force of truth and justice, in this great intellectual struggle, had at length prevailed over what he might now be allowed to call long-cherished prejudices and errors. In the contest, which he hoped was now about to be concluded for ever, they had been long engaged. It had been a severe and a protracted contest. But every day and every hour, during which they had been occupied in this struggle, the cause had been increasing in strength, in proportion as it had been growing in importance; until at last it was admitted, that, it could no longer be left unsettled, without endangering the safety of the country—nay, until it was distinctly admitted, that all further opposition to it must be unavailing. In connexion with this subject, he could not but congratulate his noble friend (lord J. Russell) on the gratifying fact, that the generous principles of liberality, that the true. principles of religious liberty, were making a great and rapid progress in this country, and that, too, in quarters, Where such an event was to be least expected. Why, not two years had elapsed, since his right hon. friend, the Secretary of State for the Home Department had said, in his place in that House, that he, for one, either in power or out of power, would strenuously oppose all and every concession to the Protestant Dissenters. But, in the very last session of parliament,—and he stated it to his right hon. friend's honour—he assumed the character of a conciliatory moderator, with respect to that very question; and, with his sincere and effectual assistance, an arrangement was made that was satisfactory to all parties concerned in the operation of the Test and Corporation acts. He hoped that, in the present instance, his right hon. friend would be able, in the same manner, with equal success—he was sure that he would act with equal sincerity—to accomplish the repeal of all penal laws and of all disqualifying statutes, which militated against the Roman Catholic subjects, and that he would devise such measures as would perfectly satisfy those for whom they were intended, whilst they soothed and calmed any feelings of apprehension that might be entertained by others. The whole of the reasons, as stated by his right hon. friend on the preceding evening, which had induced government to undertake the consideration of this question, were of the greatest importance. Whether with reference to the inconvenience and danger of a continued conflict of opinion between the two Houses of parliament, or the baneful effects that must flow from a division of sentiments in his Majesty's councils, or the mischiefs which must be generated by differences in the Irish government, arising out of dissensions here; and, lastly, the important consideration, whether it was possible to form a cabinet on the basis of permanent resistance to the Roman Catholics,—all these points were brought forward with clearness by his right hon. friend; and, in his reasoning upon them, as well as in the correctness of the facts adduced, he thought they must all concur. What his right hon. friend had said was perfectly in unison with the view which he (Mr. Huskisson) entertained with reference to the Catholic question. There was nothing new in what had that evening fallen from the hon. member for Louth, when he spoke of the Catholic Association. Speeches were delivered last year by the right hon. member for Kerry, and by the Solicitor-general for Ireland, containing all the inferences which the hon. member for Louth had drawn. The words were not precisely the same, but his hon. friends had put the same arguments, with respect to the influence of the Catholic Association: the danger of its existence to the country was by them most strongly urged, and the remedy was clearly pointed out. Now, why did he advert to these things? Why, merely to observe, that these representations having made a proper impression on the minds of ministers, who had been hitherto opposed to any settlement of these claims, they were the strongest grounds for believing that they were sincere in their determination finally to settle this long-debated question. Perhaps he might regret that those impressions had not operated sooner on the mind of his right hon. friend [hear, hear]. He did not mean to say this with any of that invidious feeling which some gentlemen might attribute to the observation; he made the remark merely with reference to the importance of this question; for he would say, that if these impressions had been fortunately entertained before the present time, it might have been possible that a lamented friend of his (Mr. Canning), whose unceasing exertions, whose splendid eloquence, and whose brilliant talents had greatly contributed to forward and mature this most interesting question, both in parliament and in the public mind, might, perhaps, in the dispensation of an all-wise Providence, have been spared to witness the triumph of his labours;—might have been enabled in that House to discharge those duties, in bringing his labours to a close, which now devolved on his right hon. friend. He hoped his right hon. friend would not mistake the feeling under which he spoke. He was sure, after the statement which he had heard his right hon. friend make last year,—and in the sincerity of which, he, for one, entirely believed,—he was sure, after the sentiments which his right hon. friend then expressed, that he must have undergone a most painful struggle between his own personal feelings and the feelings of duty to his sovereign and to his country, before he determined to pursue the course which he had happily adopted. In taking such a step, his right hon. friend had, no doubt, made a great public sacrifice; and he felt convinced that his right hon. friend could not believe that he had brought forward this topic from any unkind or uncourteous motive. Placed, however, as he was, before the House, he could not control this expression of his feeling. He looked forward to the future with confidence; and he entertained the most sanguine assurance, that the best results would be produced by the contemplated concessions. He wished not to allude farther to what had gone by, except to state his regret that his right hon. friend had not, at an earlier period, adopted the system which he now recommended. The hon. member for Louth had said, that he was very much disposed to support views on this subject which he did not formerly uphold in that House; and, that he was content to do this from the confidence he had in those who were placed at the head of the government, as their ardent feelings for the welfare of the Protestant establishment led him to think that it was better to place the question in their hands than in those of any other persons who might desire to bring forward this measure of concession. He was well aware of the warm attachment which was felt by his noble friend in another place for the established religion; he knew that his noble friend felt the strongest desire to insure the safety of that religion; but, while he admitted this, he must claim, for his right hon. friend now no more, and for himself, humble individual as he was, as great, as sincere, as powerful an attachment to the Protestant church as any member of the establishment could possibly feel. And, amongst other reasons, it was from a firm conviction, that the established institutions of the country would be more securely maintained by agreeing to these concessions than by opposing them, that he supported this question. When he before stated his sentiments on this subject, he had observed, that, while he was warmly attached to the Catholic cause, he disliked the tenets and doctrines of the Catholic religion. Such was still his feeling; but he conceived that in legislating on this question they had nothing to do with those tenets or doctrines. But it appeared that within a very short time the tenets of the Catholic church had ceased to be regarded by many gentlemen with that horror which they heretofore excited,—they seemed to have been sud denly converted [hear, and a laugh]. He could only attribute to some natural cause—to some strange influence of the atmosphere not well understood,—the very numerous and important conversions that had taken place since that day week. He had no doubt, however, that one day or other they should have some better explanation of the cause which had produced such extraordinary effects. He had no doubt that the impartial pen of history would do full justice to those causes which had led to such satisfactory results. It was not for him to attempt an exposition of those causes, and he could only join with others in expressing his gratification in witnessing results which were likely to confer so many and such lasting benefits upon the people of Ireland and of England. With these feelings, he was disposed to give his cordial support to the address, although it might be admitted, that it contained many things which he could wish had been omitted. He was not, for instance, prepared to admit that the Catholic Association ought to be described as the cause of the discord and ill-will which, at the present moment, prevailed in Ireland. In speaking upon that subject, he begged, however, that he might not be misunderstood. He fully agreed with that description of the Association contained in the Speech, where it was described as being inconsistent with the spirit of the constitution, dangerous to the public peace, and likely to obstruct every effort permanently to improve the condition of the people. It was, indeed, impossible to calculate the consequences which might ensue from the existence of such an Association, under different circumstances than those in which they were now about to be placed: but when they spoke of its creating and keeping up the ill-will which prevailed in Ireland, he must deny the correctness of the assertion. He would contend, that the Association was only evidence of the cause of ill-will, but was not the cause itself. In the language of one of the most eloquent advocates of Catholic rights, once the ornament of that House, but now deservedly elevated to the other (lord Plunkett), he might say that these perpetuations of discord and ill-will were "the spawn of our own wrong," and could only be removed by the removal of those causes which brought them into life. it was, indeed, much to be wished that the government could have been induced to wait the effect of the removal of those causes, before they had determined upon any legislative enactment with respect to the Association, and that they had permitted it to expire from the absence of a cause to give it excitement. But, be that as it might, he had an entire confidence in the good faith of the government, and was not at all disposed to offer any opposition to the bill for suppressing the Association, although it might not at once be accompanied by a measure of relief to the Catholics.—He did not wish to obtrude himself any longer upon the attention of the House, and he should therefore merely observe, with reference to other parts of the Speech, that the proceedings adopted towards Greece had his full and entire approval; and he was satisfied that every thing which had been done in the East of Europe, in conjunction with our Allies; had been done in the full spirit of the treaty of the 6th of July 1827, and that the exertions of the government of this country had been unceasingly directed to the establishment of the independence of Greece, and the prevention of the unnecessary effusion of blood. He remarked, that the language used in his Majesty's Speech at the opening of the present session, upon the subject of the blockade of the Dardanelles by the fleet of the emperor of Russia, was very different from the language used, in the last session, in the Speech delivered from the Throne at its close. At the close of last session it was distinctly declared to the House, that his majesty, the emperor of Russia, "had consented to waive the exercise, in the Mediterranean sea, of any rights appertaining to his imperial majesty in the character of a belligerent power."^* Now, it was understood beyond all question at the time, that the emperor of Russia had pressed his right to the exercise of this power, and that he had been induced to abandon it, solely on account of the urgent remonstrances of the government of this country. This he knew was the interpretation put upon the declaration in the Speech, and so it had been reported and considered by every mercantile man in the country; and he knew too, that the abandonment of this right was construed into a great boon obtained for our commerce by the successful interposition and remonstrances of his Majesty's government. In the present Speech, however, it appeared that his imperial majesty had "considered it necessary to resume the exercise of his belligerent rights in the Mediterranean, and had established a blockade of the Dardanelles." Now he did not see how these two passages could be reconciled. He did not think that a party, who had given a consent of this kind, was at liberty to resume his authority without the consent of that other party, at whose instance, not six months before, he had announced his intention to abandon it. It might be said, that an objection of this nature was not very material; but he thought that every thing which concerned the honour and dignity of the country was of importance, and that it was very material to know there had been no departure from those principles, and from that course of policy, which our situation and our character bound us to maintain. With respect to that part of the Speech which alluded to Portugal, he considered it as giving rise to very reasonable dissatisfaction. He could not undertake, with his present information, to pronounce any opinion upon the nature of the relations which now subsisted between the two countries; but this he might say, that forming a judgment from appearances, he could not possibly reconcile either our present position, or our past transactions in Portugal, with the honour and dignity of the Crown, or with that course of policy, which, under the faith of many treaties, had always placed Portugal in such close and cordial alliance with this country. He had no doubt that much of this admitted of a full and satisfactory explanation; but he could assure the House and the government, that such was the light in which our conduct was viewed on the continent of Europe, by all those who had witnessed our forbearance to that person who at present filled the throne of Portugal, which throne he had ascended by one of the foulest usurpations recorded in history; and it was not the least painful, or the least extraordinary part of that transaction, that the person who had violated all those treaties was, at our own intervention, placed in that trust which he had so foully abused. He did not mean to press this topic further; but he hoped that, for the honour and dignity of the Crown, and the reputation of the country, the affair would be fully and satisfactorily explained. Mi nisters might be placed in circumstances of difficulty; they might be able to show that they had done their duty, and yet they might, for a season, have sufficient reasons for withholding explanation: but, when the proper time came, the House had a right to expect that a full disclosure of circumstances would be made.

^* See vol. xix. p. 178.

said, that whatever joy he might feel at finding that a cause to which he had always adhered, and of which, during half a century, he had been the unshaken advocate, was likely to be crowned with that success which it deserved, still he did not rise to give expression to those feelings. His object in addressing the House was, as far as an humble individual could do so, to offer his advice to the members of the Catholic Association, in the hope that that advice would prove beneficial. He rose for the purpose of urging his earnest entreaty on the body called the Catholic Association, that they would, without waiting for any legislative acts whatever, forthwith dissolve themselves. Their own good sense would, he hoped, dictate to them the propriety of taking this step. He trusted that they would at once put an end to any jealousy on the part of their Protestant countrymen, and, by dissolving themselves, relieve the government from the necessity of bringing in a measure for their suppression. It would give him the most heartfelt satisfaction if they would adopt such a course and he firmly believed it would be done, as he had the highest confidence in the prudence and discretion of many members of that Association. He had only to add, that, whether the measure of relief to the Catholics should he preceded or followed by other measures, he hoped that what was given would not be given grudgingly, but that the boon which the legislature was about to confer upon Ireland would be imparted upon such a liberal and generous principle as would secure the gratitude of the Catholics, and prevent the necessity of any further legislation upon the same subject.

said, he could state it as a positive fact to the government, that the opposition supposed to be felt by the people of this country to the claims of their Catholic fellow subjects was very much exaggerated. He was connected with a large and considerable county, and he could assure the House that many of the inhabitants—men who, all their lives, had been opposed to Catholic emancipation—had expressed themselves to him as being willing to co-operate in any measure which government might propose to settle this question by concessions accompanied with proper securities: and they looked forward with anxiety to the time when government would take the business in hand. For his own part, he thought the satisfaction at the adjustment of this question would be great and general, he would almost say universal. It was also to him, on another account, a matter of heart-felt congratulation that the subject would soon be set at rest; fer it had not only created public disunion, and embarrassed the proceedings of some of the most able public men, but it had made its way into private families, and created ill-feeling and disunion. The question threatened to produce implacable hatred throughout the country; but its settlement would banish all feelings of that description, and create, in their stead, religious peace and general tran-quillity. That system which had drained the country of its resources would now cease, and the wounds which it had inflicted would be healed by those salutary balms—religious toleration and political equality. He thought that a great day had dawned both upon Ireland and England; and he was sure that the course which England had taken would speedily be rewarded by increased prosperity, and the unvarying attachment of the sister kingdom.

said, he was extremely happy to find that this great question, so long an object of dispute, was at length to be arranged. He had wished, most fervently, during the whole time he had had a seat in that House, to see this question finally settled. He thought it was now placed in the proper hands. He, and those with whom he was in the habit of acting, had long felt that the best, indeed the only way of insuring the success of the question, was by its being brought forward by the government; but they never could effect that object, and therefore they were obliged to introduce it separately, and not in a manner so satisfactory as that in which it was now introduced. He thought the noble duke at the head of the government deserved great credit for the manner in which he had proceeded. With reference to a point which had been touched on, it would, in his opinion, be well to wait to see whe- ther the concession would not at once put an end to the Catholic Association. If it did not, it would then be time for the government to put it down by force. But he hoped that the recommendation which they had received from their best friends, would induce them to disband themselves immediately, without waiting for any legislative enactment. If, however, a bill for putting down the Association should be persisted in, he hoped it would contain provisions so consistent with the spirit of a free country, and constitutional liberty, that he should be able to give it his support.

said, he rose to express the deep gratification which he, in common with a great portion of that House, felt, in consequence of the Speech from the Throne—a speech the most truly patriotic, the most truly British, that had ever come before them. They were united in their vote of thanks for that Speech, and assuredly they ought to be so; for it was worthy of an enlightened monarch, who, listening to the representations of millions of his subjects, had recommended their case to the consideration of his parliament. He felt peculiar pleasure in thinking, that this great work was about to be perfected, in consequence of the representation of a sovereign who had felt personal sympathy for the Irish people—who had placed himself in personal contact with them. In his opinion, the thanks of every person interested in the welfare of the empire were due to the noble duke who had given such advice to his Majesty, and who, if this great object should be accomplished, would render the glorious victory of Waterloo a secondary portion of his fame. He wished sincerely that this great measure of relief might come before them without any incumbrance whatever—without any provisions connected with coercion. He thought such provisions were useless; because, in his view of the case, the best mode of doing, away with the Catholic Association was by granting Catholic emancipation. A measure of a coercive character would seem to betray alarm or distrust, where, he was sure, none was felt, and might raise suspicion where there was perfect confidence at present; but if two measures were deemed necessary, he could wish them to be introduced simultaneously. The principles of the measure would be developed in its progress; and, reserving to himself the right of investigating them at the proper period, he should be extremely reluctant to throw anything like opposition in the way of this good work. He confessed that, when he saw the noble duke at the head of the government applying his mind honestly and vigorously to this subject, and when he saw him supported by the other members of the government, he felt very much disposed, with the reservation he had mentioned, to confide in the measures about to be introduced by his Majesty's ministers for the settlement of this great question; because he could not help believing that they meant to act fairly and justly. The settlement of this question would not be the triumph of one faction over another, nor the gain of this party at the expense of that; it would be a long-desired act of national justice—he had almost said of national piety. Such a subject should be approached with serious and sacred feelings; and, in considering, it there should be not only the total absence of any thing like angry recrimination, but the exercise of liberal and enlarged benevolence, with the fullest intention of doing justice to Ireland, and of providing for the safety of the Protestant constitution of the country. If such principles were acted upon, a most happy result would be produced. He should envy the feelings of the duke of Wellington on the day on which this measure, to which so many eminent men had devoted their talents, should be accomplished. He should envy the feelings of the illustrious duke on the day on which the doors of parliament should be thrown open to welcome back the Howards, the Jerninghams, and the Talbots, to reclaim the ancient seats and assert the high station of their ancestors. There was one person more whose feelings he should envy: he should envy the feelings of the king of England, when after this measure had been accomplished, he should come down to meet the parliament of his free, united, and happy people.

said, it was not his intention to have trespassed on the House at the present moment, but that he felt himself called on to offer one observation upon what had fallen from his right hon. friend, and from other hon. members who had addressed the House. He alluded to what had been said with regard to the manner in which they wished his Majesty's ministers to carry into effect the measures which were in contemplation with respect to Ireland. When such views as those now expressed by the government were entertained in such a quarter, and when such measures as those now projected for Ireland were promised, no man could be more inclined than he was to say, "stand not on the order of your going." He must however declare, that no part of the Speech from the Throne had been more grateful to him than that which recommended them to arm the executive government with powers to put down the Catholic Association. He by no means intended to put his humble and limited experience in competition with that of the right hon. gentleman who had just sat down, or with that of the right hon. gentleman who had preceded him; but, certainly, on the most deliberate view that he had been able to take, from his recent experience, he felt that this measure ought to be preliminary. He had hitherto been the advocate of the Catholic claims: that advocacy he had espoused, he trusted, with temperance, but he had always considered that the essential part, the elixir vitœ as it were, of any measure of concession, should he a due protection of the Protestant interests and a respect for the Protestant feeling in Ireland. He conceived, that any such measure of concession should be accompanied with a distinct pledge to the Protestants, of ample protection, and of avoidance from the future operation of those consequences of which the Catholic Association had been productive. He was ready to admit that the evils to which he alluded, and which he wished to see removed, had arisen from the state of the law. He admitted that the law as it stood, was in opposition to the interests of a great portion of his Majesty's subjects in Ireland, Protestant as well as Catholic; but still it was possible that those evils might continue, even after the cause which produced them had been removed. It might be true, as it had been conjectured, that the Catholic Association would expire of itself; but if it did, still such measures should be taken as would prevent the possibility of "resurgam" being written on its tomb.

said, he differed on this point from the noble lord who had just sat down. For his own part he thought it would have been better for the government to have said to the Association, "You profess to associate for the purpose of effecting the removal of certain disabilities; we have removed them, and you have therefore no longer any right or pretence to continue your meetings." If, after this, the Association had persisted in assembling, then he was sure there would have been a general concurrence, on the part of the House, to grant to the executive such powers as should enable them to put it down. There could be no doubt that this Association was irreconcilable with law and authority. It was a self-appointed government, thwarting and controlling the real government of the country, and of which any person might become a member by paying a subscription of a few pounds. He certainly should have given all his assistance towards putting down the Association, if he found that they did not dissolve immediately upon the removal of the cause which had brought them together. At the same time, however, they must consider that a very great step had been gained. The intention of government had been fully and explicitly declared. He confessed that he was much more sanguine than the right hon. Secretary, with respect to the consequences of the projected measure. He believed it was pregnant with incalculable benefit to Ireland, and security to the state. This being his conviction, he was unwilling to offer any obstacle to the progress of the measure. His Majesty's ministers having investigated the subject, and fully considered all the difficulties by which it was surrounded, had come to a determination in which most other persons probably would have concurred, if they had been in possession of the same means of information, and, therefore, it was his wish that he should not be compelled to offer a single negative to their propositions. Unless the proposed measure contained something very different from any thing that he could conceive it would contain, his wish would be gratified, and in none of its stages should he be found in the character of an opponent. The right hon. member for Liverpool had expressed regrets—which were extremely natural on his part, and for which he was to be honoured—that this important measure had not been agreed to during the lifetime of Mr. Canning. The gratification with which that eloquent and able minister would have hailed this event, justified the right hon. gentleman in the sentiments which he had expressed; but, for his own part, he was unwilling to enter into such considerations. The fact, that a consideration of the state of Ireland in past years had not produced the conviction which it had now effected, did not diminish the joy which he felt in discovering that a consideration of the state of Ireland in the year 1829 had convinced ministers of the necessity of a measure which had so long been called for; and he honoured them, inasmuch as they had preferred exposing their characters to that obloquy which always attached to a change of opinion, rather than expose their country to peril. He confessed he was the more pleased with this result, because he had long formed an opinion which time had served to confirm, that the success of this great question mainly depended upon its being made a government measure. There had been so many persons in authority adverse to the claims of the Catholics; measures in favour of the Catholics had found so many opponents in the other House of parliament; there was, moreover, in the people of this country so great a jealousy of any measure on the subject introduced by an individual member; and, lastly, it was impossible that any member unconnected with government should propose a measure which would be satisfactory to the church, and to the numerous interests connected with it. These were the considerations which had convinced him, that, until the Catholic question was made a government question, it could not succeed. He had, indeed, hoped that the repeated votes of that House would, at some time, force the government to take up the question; but with this hope there was joined in his mind a fear which, as it was not on personal grounds, he was not ashamed to avow. He confessed he had feared that events in Ireland would proceed faster than the legislation of that House; that the narrow isthmus between great endurance and resistance would be broken down; and that they would be plunged into a struggle, in which victory would have proved one of the most dreadful calamities that could befal a nation. This fear—not for himself, but for the safety and welfare of his country—had sunk deep into his mind, and he hailed, therefore, with the most heartfelt joy, the measures which the government had determined to adopt. He was quite sure the time was now at hand when the duke of Wellington would find that, in the judgment of his country the most unfading laurel in his crown was the act by which he had restored equal liberty to all classes of his Majesty's subjects.

said, he should postpone the few observations which he had to offer on the principal subject of the Address, until he had noticed one or two topics which had been adverted to in the speech of his right hon. friend the member for Liverpool. His right hon. friend appeared to think, that there was an inconsistency between the Speech lately delivered from the Throne, and that which had been addressed to the parliament at the close of the last session. His right hon. friend appeared to think, that what was said in the former respecting the belligerent rights of Russia in the Mediterranean differed from the expressions which had been used respecting the same rights in the latter. He thought, however, that if his right hon. friend would look at the whole of the statement on this subject in the Speech of his Majesty at the close of the last session, he would find that what had been said there was quite reconcileable with the expressions lately used. The chief point upon which his right hon. friend insisted, was the use of the word "consent." His right hon. friend supposed that the word "consent" implied that there had been some formal negotiation with Russia, the result of which was, that she had waved rights which she had now resumed. The words of the Speech, at the close of the last session, were these:—"His Imperial Majesty has consented to waive the exercise in the Mediterranean Sea, of any rights appertaining to his Imperial Majesty, in the character of a belligerent power, and to recall the separate instructions which have been given to the Commander of his naval forces in that Sea, directing hostile operations against the Ottoman Porte. His Majesty will therefore continue to combine his efforts with these of the King of France and his Imperial Majesty, for the purpose of carrying into complete execution the Treaty of London." Now the fact was, that they, being parties to the treaty of the 6th of July, found that many difficulties occurred to them, as neutrals, from the separate instructions of his Imperial Majesty, directing hostile operations against the Porte. They stated that to Russia: she withdrew her separate instructions, and they, preserving their position of neutrality, were enabled to act as a party to the treaty. It would be seen, then, that there was nothing to prevent the resumption, on the part of Russia, of her belligerent rights in the Mediterranean Sea, when she should find it necessary to resume them; but then they, of course, had a right, as neutrals, to withdraw as soon as those belligerent rights should be resumed. "Consent," therefore, as used by his Majesty, was a proper term, and by no means necessarily implied, that there had been any formal negotiation. It was strictly a consent, and nothing more, to waive belligerent rights, by which they were enabled to carry on the treaty of the 6th of July. The terms, therefore, of the two Speeches were perfectly reconcileable. With respect to Portugal, his right hon. friend had, with great propriety, abstained from pressing that topic for the present, and he must be allowed to follow the good example. He would merely observe, that, admitting the usurpation of the government of Portugal to have been most unjustifiable, and the internal dissensions of that country to have been most unfortunate and distressing, yet that, unless his Majesty's ministers had been prepared to take a part in those internal dissensions, they had only one course open to them. That that course had not only not been neglected, but that it had been properly pursued, he had no doubt that he should be able, at a proper opportunity, to satisfy the House. With respect to the observations which had been made upon him and upon the government on the subject of Ireland and the Catholic question, they had by no means surprised him. He would, however, declare, once for all, that as far as he was concerned, the recommendation of his right hon. friend the member for Invernesshire, should beattended to, and all angry discussions, invectives, and recriminations be avoided. Now that he had undertaken that most important, most difficult, and to him, most painful task, he would devote his best exertions to carry it to a successful issue. No reproaches from those hon. friends of his with whom he had so often acted, and for whom he retained the most cordial respect—no opposition on the part of those whom he had been in the habit of meeting as opponents—should betray him into the expressions of angry feelings. He had undertaken the task, and he would endeavour to bring it to such an issue as should secure the safety of the Protestant interests of the country, and satisfy the hopes and expectations of every reasonable Roman Catholic. He was not surprised at the feelings which had been expressed by his right hon. friend, the member for Liverpool. At the early part of last year he had embarked with his right hon. friend in a government, in which the Catholic question was perfectly open, each member of the government being at liberty to express, what opinions he pleased upon it. It was, perhaps, unwise n both of them; but they thought that they might continue in the service of the Crown, without abandoning the principle which had been acted upon for so many years in the formation of administrations. The House having declared in favour of concessions to the Roman Catholics, he said nothing at the time; but he had found that this principle could no longer be maintained in the government, and be had taken an early opportunity of stating, in the proper quarter, that this was his impression. It was the deliberate conviction of his own mind, and in expressing it he had stated, that he was ready to remove any obstacle which might arise from his remaining in office. He ought, perhaps, to have seen this at the beginning of the session, but new events forced the fact upon him, and he took the first opportunity of stating his conviction, and, as he had before said, expressed his readiness to remove any obstacle which might arise from his continuing in the service of the Crown. He went farther. In the present state of the country, more importance had been attached to individual resignations than would arise from such occurrences under other circumstances and in other times. After full and deliberate consideration, he expressed his readiness to relieve the government from the obstacle which, it was stated to him, would arise from his retirement. He understood it had been supposed that he had said, that in August some measures connected with the subject of the Catholic question were under consideration by the cabinet, and that he communicated upon them with his noble friend at the head of the government. This was a mistake. The communication which he had made to his noble friend related to his own individual views, and was made to no other person. His noble friend had said in his speech, in the House of Lords, that he did not despair of seeing a satisfactory adjustment of the Catholic question. He had said to his noble friend, in reference to this, "I think you are right, but my situation is very different from yours, and I will retire." This was all; and he had made the communication to no other individual but his noble friend. He had stated last night, that feeling that his retirement would throw difficulties in the course of the government, he had determined to act upon that advice which he had felt that it was his duty to give to his Majesty. He could very well understand why he was reproached for this discharge of what he conceived to be his duty, by his hon. friends, who thought his present conduct inconsistent with his former views and declarations. He did not blame them. He would only say, that if they were in possession of the in formation which he was in possession of with respect to the state of society in Ireland, he firmly believed, that they would; come to the same conclusion with himself; namely, that the government could no longer remain neutral, leaving two parties to fight out the battle between them, but was compelled at length to act, and that, too, in such a manner as they believed most likely to preserve the interests of the Protestants, and to conduce to the welfare of the country. If his hon. friends were in the possession of this information, he believed they would see that no stable government could be formed on the principle of eternal and uncompromising resistance to the Catholic claims. Such, at least, was the conclusion to which he had arrived, and to such a conclusion he believed his hon. friends who now reproached him, would have come also, if the same information had reached them. The only course, then, which remained, was for a responsible government carefully to deliberate upon this subject; to carefully as ministers of the Crown, what ought to be done, without any negotiations with, or reference to the parties; and then to submit the result of their deliberations to the parliament, calling upon it to sanction that which, under all circumstances, was, in their opinion, the best that could be done.

assured his right hon. friend, that in expressing regret that this question had not been carried in the life-time of a lamented friend of his, he did not mean to convey the slightest reproach on him for not having sooner conformed to the conviction to which he had now come. He sincerely believed that his right hon. friend would be most serviceable to the carrying of the great question, as, from his influence, he was admirably calculated to conciliate jarring interests, and to win over opposition that might come from other quarters. As an illustration, he had referred to the mediatorial part which his right hon. friend had borne last session, in reconciling the country to the repeal of the Test and Corporation acts; and he expressed a hope, that he might render a similar service in the framing of a measure of Catholic concession.

said, that in referring to the reproaches with which he had been visited on account of the change in his opinions, he did not allude to his right hon. friend, but to the speeches of other members. The only part of the speech of his right hon. friend to which he referred, as connected with his conduct, was that in which his right hon. friend appeared to express an opinion, that the principle of neutrality in the cabinet ought to have been abandoned sooner than it had been.

repeated his assurance of intending to convey no reproach of any kind whatever on the conduct of his right hon. friend.

The Address was then agreed to.