said, he had been intrusted, by a large body of the inhabitants of Buckinghamshire, with a number of petitions against granting any further concession to the Roman Catholics. He would take that opportunity of stating to the House, as one of its members, that the great mass of the population of that county were perfectly aware of the danger which must be created, by relaxing the laws that affected the Roman Catholics; and that feeling and opinion had in no degree been diminished by the Speech from the Throne on the first day of the session. For his part, he should take every opportunity of opposing the contemplated measure. Having thus stated his determination, it was not his intention, on the present occasion, to combat the opinions of those who differed from him on this question, but he still felt, that parliament would act most unwisely if it sanctioned a change in a constitution, under which England had flourished for so many years. He, for one, would resist such attempt; but should it ultimately be altered, he would be the first man to recommend obedience to the law. The noble marquis then presented petitions from about eighty towns and parishes in Buckinghamshire.

said, he had not a word to offer against the respectability of the persons whose names were subscribed to these petitions. He therefore should not have spoken if the noble lord had not stated, that the great mass of the population of Buckinghamshire were firmly arrayed against the claims of the Roman Catholics. Now, as some of these petitions proceeded from places included within the hundred of Aylesbury, which he represented, he wished to state his entire conviction, that the noble lord laboured under a misconception, with respect to the general feeling which prevailed on this subject in those places. He should be the most ungrateful and insensible of men, if he did not inform the noble lord that he was labouring under a misconception on this point. He had never concealed his opinion with respect to the Catholic question. He had always avowed that opinion, and put it forward as one of the reasons for soliciting a seat in that House; and, with that avowal on his part, and that knowledge on the part of his constituents, he stood there as the representative of two thousand electors, who had returned him without a canvass, and without a shilling expense [hear hear]. He therefore felt it necessary not to let the statement, made by the noble lord, go forth without any remark; and it would be his pride and happiness, on any public occasion that might be afforded him, to bring this question to issue in the face of the country.

said, he would again assert, that the feelings of the county of Buckingham had not undergone any change as to this question, in consequence of his majesty's Speech. That there might be shades of difference in their opinions, he was willing to admit; but if the noble lord believed that the electors of Aylesbury were all with him, he would perhaps find himself mistaken. If he had stated any thing that could hurt the feelings of the noble lord, he was sorry for having done so; but he must be permitted to say, that the correctness of the position of the noble lord would, perhaps, he unfortunately brought to the test at the next general election.

thought, the noble marquis laboured under a complete mistake, when he said, that the general impression of the county was hostile to the claims of the Catholics.

presented petitions from several parishes in the county of Lincoln, against the Catholic claims. He said, that there could not be a greater fallacy than to suppose that the feeling of the country was not hostile to those claims.

said, if that were the case, he should be glad to know how it happened that, out of fifty-two counties, only two had given any sort of opinion against those claims.

replied, that the reason why there was not a more general declaration of the sentiments of the country was, that the people were not prepared for the Speech which had been delivered from the throne. It came quite unexpectedly upon the whole nation.

presented petitions from various parishes in the county of Limerick, in favour of Catholic emancipation. He would take that opportunity of announcing, that the Catholic Association had been dissolved [hear, hear]. This act of dissolution was most creditable to it; showing, as it did, their reliance on the wisdom of the legislature, and on the justice of their own cause. He hoped that other Associations in that country would follow its example.

presented a similar petition from Kingston-upon-Hull. He said, that certain petitions of a contrary nature had been presented by his hon colleague. Now, if it were meant, that those petitions represented the opinion of the great body of the town, he would give such an assertion a complete contradiction. These petitioners were extremely respectable; but they were by no means numerous. Out of a population of twenty-five thousand, only five hundred had signed petitions against concession. The petitions, too, as he had been informed, had been signed by a number of children. The fact of his representing that place, was a sufficient answer to the statement, that the great body of the town was against concessions to the Catholics; for he had nothing to recommend himself to his constituents but his opinions, and had always thought and said, that policy and justice demanded that those concessions should be made.

said, with respect to the statement that the general feeling of the country was hostile to the Catholic claims, he begged to mention one fact, and leave the House to draw their own inference from it. The day before the opening of parliament, a meeting, consisting of several thousand persons, was held in the town which he had the honour to represent. At that meeting, a resolution in favour of the Catholic claims was proposed, and only one hand was held up against it: on the resolution being put a second time, that one hand was withdrawn. The town of Leicester had not always held such opinions, and it was fair to suppose that a similar change might have taken place in other places.

said, that a similar feeling prevailed in the town which he represented, and he now rose to make this statement, because the gallant member for Liverpool had said, that he should shortly have to present a petition from Preston against the Catholics. This statement had caused the greatest surprise in Preston. If any attempt were made to get up a petition against the Catholics at Preston, it would be met by a counter-petition, signed by overwhelming numbers.

presented three petitions from Sudbury, against concession to the Catholics. He said, he regretted sincerely that the right hon. Secretary had changed his opinions upon this question, and gone over to the ranks of his political opponents. At the same time, he respected the sincerity of the right hon. gentleman, and was satisfied that he had adopted the change from a conviction of its necessity. His own opinion, upon this question, was recorded in his vote upon it, and he had seen nothing since he gave that vote, to induce him to alter it. The proposed measure was manifestly a change in the constitution, which he should be most reluctant to sanction. With regard to the difficult situation in which government was placed, the country itself was, in a great degree, responsible for creating that difficulty. What he alluded to was, that in many counties—for instance, in the county of Kent—by a compromise of interests, the vote of one member was suffered to neutralize the vote of the other, and thus the real expression of the sentiments of the country were not represented in parliament. It was not too much to say, that this practice of returning members of opposite sentiments on this great question, for the purpose of avoiding the disturbance of a contested election, had been acted upon in twenty-six counties. For his own part, although he was not aware of the precise measure which it was the intention of government to bring forward, he did not think that there was any measure of this nature, to which he could, consistently with his duty, give his assent.

in presenting several petitions from Berkshire, against further concessions to the Catholics, said, he trusted the House would excuse him if he trespassed for a few moments on their attention. He had hitherto entertained the opinion, that the admission of Roman Catholics to places of trust and power, and, above all, to seats in that and the other House of parliament, would be inconsistent with the principles of our Protestant constitution, and fraught with danger to the tranquillity of the empire; and in accordance with that opinion, he had always opposed any further concessions to them. But he had never either said or thought, that a time might not arrive when it would be expedient to take the question into consideration, and not only to take it into consideration, but to take it into consideration with a view to its satisfactory adjustment [Hear, hear!]. The question came before them at present in a shape totally different from any which it had before assumed. It came recommended to parliament by his majesty in a Speech from the Throne. Having been in the habit of looking up with confidence to the ministers to whom the government of the country was at present confided, he would not be so prejudiced in favour of his own opinion, as to declare at once, and without hearing what the measure was which it was intended to propose, that he would be hostile to it. He was quite ready, therefore, to take the subject into the fairest consideration, divesting himself, as much as possible, of all prepossession, and entertaining a hope, although he confeseed not a very sanguine one, that it might be practicable to frame a measure satisfactory to both parties. At all events, he would vote for that course which, upon a balance of circumstances, should appear to him to be most conducive to the best interests of the country.

in presenting a petition from the archdeacon and clergy of Oxfordshire, Whitney, and a third from a parish in Oxfordshire, against fur- ther concession to the Roman Catholics, observed, that he entirely concurred in the prayer of the petitioners. What further information on the subject the right hon. Secretary of State, or any other member of his majesty's government might have to communicate, he knew not; but at present he saw no reason for changing the opinions which he had always entertained on this important question. At the same time, he entirely concurred with the hon. member for Louth, that if the question was to be conceded at all, it should be conceded on Protestant principles. He had it, not from Mr. O'Connell, or from any other individual, but from the great body of the Roman Catholics of Ireland, that emancipation from civil disabilities was not their sole object; for, in their petition, in the year 1824, they expressly stated, that one of the grievances which they principally felt was their being compelled to pay for the maintenance of a Church of which they were not members. He conceived, therefore, that no bill would prove satisfactory to the Roman Catholics, which did not relieve them from that grievance. It was by no means, however, his intention to offer a pertinacious opposition to whatever measure his majesty's government might introduce. Of the purity of the motives by which the right hon. gentleman, under whose auspices the proposition was to come before the House, was actuated, he felt perfectly convinced; and he thought it exceedingly fortunate, that the right hon. gentleman was to have the charge of the measure; being well assured that all that human prudence could do to guard against the serious evils which might arise from it would be done by him.

presented a petition from the Protestant inhabitants of Wexford, against further concession to the Roman Catholics. The petitioners stated, that at the late election the Catholic priests had conducted themselves in such a manner as to shew the danger of a union of civil with spiritual power. Having the honour of representing the town of Wexford, he hoped he might be permitted to say a few words on the subject. Every one must recollect the horrible circumstances which occurred in that town in 1798. It was impossible that the Protestant inhabitants could bury those circumstances "in oblivion." That, how; ever, was an expression, the exact inter pretation of which might be misconceived; since it had appeared, on a recent occasion that burying a matter "in oblivion" meant bringing it immediately under the recommendation of the Crown [a laugh]. He was sure that the measure to be proposed by government would not prove a measure of conciliation; for the Catholics had declared, that nothing but unconditional emancipation would satisfy them; and unconditional emancipation would never satisfy the Protestants. And if either party must give way, ought it not to be the party which formed but a fourth or a fifth part of the population of the empire, rather than the party possessed of so large a majority of numbers, and by which a family had been expelled from its Throne for their adherence to Catholic principles? He had heard, the other night, an hon. member (Mr. Butler Clarke) say, that he should be glad to see a Catholic in his place in that House. If the hon. gentleman had but a little patience, his wish no doubt would be gratified, and a Catholic would not only have his place in that House, but in the country also. As a member of a Protestant community, and as a Christian, he must, in consistency with the oaths he had taken on entering that House, oppose the granting of any further power to the Roman Catholics.

rose, to present several petitions from different bodies of Roman Catholics in England, one joint petition from Roman Catholics and Protestants, and the general petition of the Roman Catholics of Great Britain, signed by eight peers, sixteen baronets, and 18,000 other persons, praying for relief from the civil disabilities under which they laboured. In less auspicious times, it was his pride to have been intrusted with similar petitions; and he might therefore be pardoned, if he said a few words upon this occasion. On former occasions, he had begged the attention of the House to the prayer of the petitions, and had declared their reliance on the patient consideration, and the ultimate justice of the House. His present address came recommended to them by this consideration—that he trusted, by the blessing of God, this would be the last time on which it would be necessary for him to trouble them on this theme. He could truly say, that the general petition which he was about to prebnt was from a most illustrious and respectable body of petitioners; and he should not do them justice, if he did not state that their petition was for total and unqualified admission to an equality of civil rights with their fellow subjects. They felt that less they ought not to have; and that if they were to petition for less, they should betray their duty to themselves, and to the memory of their ancestors. On that point the petitioners had been completely misrepresented. It had been most erroneously stated, that the English Catholics were so inconsistent, that while they prayed for one thing, they expressed their readiness to accept another. He was proud to say that such was not the case. They did not petition for one thing, and express their readiness to accept another; but they felt what they stated—namely, that they were entitled to a total and unqualified admission to all the privileges of the constitution. At the same time, however, they felt that they were bound to throw themselves, and they did throw themselves with perfect confidence, on the justice of parliament and of the country; and were persuaded, that in passing an act of equal justice and policy in their behalf, the legislature would not accompany that act with any provisions injurious to their honour, their rights, and their religious feelings. He must, however, be allowed, on the other hand, to say, that he thought there was no sacrifice short of trenching on the great principle of full emancipation, which the friends of the Roman Catholics ought not to be prepared to make, with a view to meet the apprehensions and scruples which, although they did not entertain them themselves, were, they well knew, entertained by a large portion of the community. He trusted that no captiousness would be exhibited by either party; but that the cause of justice and of liberality would triumph. Above all, he implored the House, for Heaven's sake, to let the measure, which they were about to adopt, be of a character that should render it complete and final; and not to burden it with provisions, that should be injurious to the feelings of those for whose benefit it was intended. It would be a great injustice to the right hon. Secretary opposite to suppose that it was his intention to introduce any such obnoxious provisions. That right hon. gentleman had already made too many sacrifices to warrant any such supposition; but, without being suspicious, it might be forgiven to the friends of the Catholics, if they watched with some anxiety the nature of the propositions that would soon be submitted to parliament. Let the act be an act of grace and of kindness. Let it be an act that will enable us to withdraw from Ireland that immense garrison of troops, which was as burdensome to this country as it was frightful to that. Let it be an act which shall render loyalty and attachment to the constitution the guardians of the tranquillity of the sister kingdom. Above all, let it be an act which shall permit a Roman Catholic gentleman to conform to its provisions, without being subjected to the charge of being actuated by improper motives. Then, and not till then, would Ireland be saved, and Great Britain rendered powerful and happy. He must beg to remind the House how the great question of emancipation had been supported by the most eminent men that had ever contributed to the welfare and glory of this country. The cause of emancipation had been adopted and supported by the great lord Chatham; it had been enforced by the commanding voices and by the statesman-like talents of Burke, Pitt, and Fox; it had been cherished by the severe but generous philosophy of Windham; by the devoted patriotism of Grattan; and by the brilliant eloquence of Canning. He might also, perhaps, be allowed to allude to another individual, and to say that the question had been much advanced by his uncompromising, steady, faithful advocacy: and though now compelled by ill-health to retire from public life, he was at the present moment watching its progress with all the eagerness and intensity of youthful hope. Need he mention lord Grenville? The cause which received the support of any one of the statesmen he had mentioned must be respectable; but that which obtained their united advocacy was rendered illustrious. This question, with its host of great supporters, might be compared to a crown set round with choicest stones; but one gem until lately was wanting. The right hon. gentleman opposite having become one of the supporters of the measure, the circle was now filled up and the crown complete. In taking leave of the petition which he had for many years presented and advocated to the best of his humble abilities, it was gratifying to reflect, that before long he might be able to hail the appearance in that House of the Howards, and the Jerninghams, restored to a full participation in the privileges of that constitution which their ancestors framed.

said, he was desirous to express his sentiments with respect to the question. On a former evening, an hon. member had expressed a hope that the measure about to be brought forward for the relief of the Catholics, would not be fettered by useless securities. Another noble lord had followed this up by saying, he hoped the measure would not be clogged by securities. Now, he, as the representative of a highly respectable county, declared, in opposition to these sentiments, that he certainly would not vote for any measure which might be brought forward for the purpose of relieving the Roman Catholics from their disabilities, unless it was accompanied with ample securities in favour of the Protestant Church and establishments. It had been triumphantly asked, why those who called for securities did not state what kind of securities they wanted? At the risk of exposing himself to odium, he could declare that he would not vote for any measure of relief, unless the strongest securities should be furnished against the power of the Papal Church. If he was asked, why he demanded securities against that power, he would reply by directing attention to the effects of that power as they had appeared in Italy for ages—as they exhibited themselves in Spain at the present moment, in the persons of a degraded nobility and a debased population. This was entirely owing to the influence of the Papal Church. Look at the present state of Portugal. Had not the deplorable situation of affairs in that country been produced by the power of the Papal Church? He had no wish to offend the feelings of the inhabitants of the sister kingdom, in alluding to the events which had taken place in that country, but he could not help attributing much of the mischief which had occurred there, to the predominant influence of the Popish church. He had always voted against conceding to the Catholics the removal of their disabilities, and for this reason—that he had never seen, until the present moment, any inclination on the part of the Catholics to meet Protestants with any conciliatory measure. He looked at what had recently occurred in the sister kingdom, with much satisfaction. As an officer who had served his country for fifteen years in an honourable profession, it was impossible that he should feel any disin- clination to remove the civil disabilities which pressed upon a great body of his countrymen, if he was satisfied that it could be done with safety. He must say, that when it was the question to serve king and country, he had never found it necessary to inquire whether the men under his command were Catholics or Protestants. He could not sit down without adverting to the conduct of the right hon Secretary below him. He believed the right hon. gentleman to have been actuated by the purest principles of patriotism; and when he looked at the noble duke at the head of the government, he could not think it extraordinary, that the man who shed tears of humanity over the carnage of Waterloo, should shrink with horror from the prospect of spilling the blood of his fellow-countrymen [hear.] Again he would say, that provided the removal of disabilities from the Catholics were accompanied with sufficient securities for the Protestant interest, he would cordially support the measure about to be introduced by government.

said, he felt himself called upon to declare, in allusion to what had fallen from his noble colleague, respecting the sentiments of the electors of Aylesbury, that he had canvassed every one of them, and could safely say, that fifteen out of every twenty were opposed to the Catholic claims.

said, he was not going to enter upon the great question; but, as the present was probably the last of the many appeals which had been fruitlessly made by the Roman Catholics of England to the justice of parliament, he trusted he might be permitted to offer a very few words on the occasion. The prospect which was now opening to the nobility and gentry of this kingdom, professing the Roman Catholic religion, must be in the highest degree gratifying to every unbiassed and generous mind. Looking at the conduct of the English Roman Catholics apart from the merits of the Catholic question, no man, he thought, let him be ever so uncompromising an opponent to concession could feel, that whatever might be granted to them had arisen from feelings of intimidation. No man could be so mistrustful or unforgiving as to tender the boon, about to be offered to the Roman Catholics of England, with any thing like reproach or misgiving, with respect to what their conduct had been, during the long period that the question had been under the consideration of parliament. The friends of emancipation could not behold English Catholics admitted to the privileges of British subjects, without feelings of satisfaction, unalloyed with any regret or apprehension of evil consequences. To the petition before the House were annexed names the most ancient in the peerage—of the highest rank in this ancient and powerful state. The families to which those names belonged had seen generation after generation pass away with the stigma upon them of a bill of perpetual pains and penalties—with the blight of the perpetual forfeiture of the privileges of the constitution, and of the honours which their ancestors had earned from the gratitude of former sovereigns. It was impossible not to feel for persons in the situation of the English Catholic peers, exposed for so long a time to unwarrantable privations. So far as the English Catholics were concerned, it was not necessary that relief to them should have been preceded by any measure of precaution. It was not necessary to meet them with a bill of conciliation in one hand, and a bill of severity in the other. To them much should be given, because from them, looking at their conduct, more had been with held than from any other portion of his majesty's subjects. If any man was conscious that his hostility to concession arose from the violent proceedings which had occurred in Ireland, he would say to him, in the name of the English Roman Catholics, "Let the conduct of the latter propitiate every angry feeling, and induce you to forget all that has passed." He was convinced, that the Catholics would by their future conduct amply discharge the debt of gratitude which they would owe to the Crown and the legislature. He could not refuse to himself the pleasure of bearing testimony to the character and conduct of the English Roman Catholics, and of heartily congratulating them on the prospect now opening on them, soon, he trusted, to be realized.

denied what the right hon member had advanced in favour, of the English Catholics, and begged the House to recollect, that the conduct and measures of the Irish Catholic Association had been approved of at a meeting of the Catholics of England. He was an Irishman, and was not at all inclined to bear too hard upon his own countrymen for what was called agitation, considering the encouragement held out to them in various ways. By the want of attention on the part of government at the commencement of the agitation, he was not at all surprised that it had arrived at that pitch which had compelled government to do something which was generally called submission. A spirit had been shewn, on the part of the Catholics of England, which led him to think, that if they had been placed in a situation equally favourable to agitation with the Irish, their conduct would not have been very different. One word as to the little danger to be apprehended from the admission of English Roman Catholics into parliament. His objection to it, with or without securities, was this—that he knew from all experience, that in that House, "a little leaven leavened the whole lump." He was, what was called, a good sitter in the House. He came early and remained late, and he was fully aware how much might be effected by a very few members, when animated by a common spirit in support of a common object. Upon this point he might be allowed to quote the words employed by the right hon. Secretary (Mr. Peel) in 1817. They were as follow:

"It is observed by Hume, when speaking of the reigns of James I. and his successor, that religious spirit, when it mingles with the spirit of faction, contains in it something supernatural; and that, in its operations upon society, effects correspond less to their known causes, than in any other circumstance of government. And this, says he, while it constitutes some apology for those who, having interfered in religious matters, are disappointed of the expected event, imposes at the same time a grievous responsibility on all who lightly innovate in so delicate an article"^*

That had always been his chief reason for opposing what was called emancipation. It was not without great pain that he found himself compelled to withhold from any portion of his fellow-subjects, the privileges which he himself enjoyed; but, being fortified in the opinions he held by the experience of all history, he must, however reluctantly, continue to oppose concession to the Catholics. He would conclude by quoting the remainder of the passage, to which he had already referred in the speech of his right hon. friend: "This reflection, says Mr. Hume, is confirmed by all history; and may it be a warning to us how we proceed to unsettle that which we find established. Let us recollect, that under the constitution which we have derived from our ancestors, we have enjoyed moreliberty, we have acquired more glory, we possess more character and power, than has hitherto fallen to the lot of any other country on the globe; and if there be any man yet undecided on this question, I entreat him that he will give the benefit of his doubt to the existing order of things; and that, before he gives his vote to a measure, of the consequences of which he is at least uncertain, he will weigh the substantial blessings which he knows to have been derived from the government, that is, against all the speculative advantages which he is promised from the government that is to be."

^* For Mr. Peel's Speech on Mr. Grattan's Motion, in May, 1817, See First Series of this Work, vol. xxxvi. p. 422.

said, that nothing but the profound ignorance of the hon. member who spoke last, nothing but his total and entire want of knowledge of what had occurred during the last thirty years, could plead an apology for the false and unfounded aspersions, which he had cast upon the Catholic nobility and gentry of England. If the hon. member had had the good fortune to reside in this country, instead of spending his days in an eastern climate, he would have known that, during the eventful period of the last thirty years, when the passions of all Catholics were raised and agitated by the alternations of hope and fear,—during that whole period, on no one occasion had the Catholics of England expressed, in any single instance, a degree of violence and irritation, or evinced any one feeling of the human mind, which did not do honour to their patience and endurance. During all that period they had been bound down, by penalties, not only equal in severity to those which prevailed in Ireland, but still more powerful—by restrictions still greater and less justifiable on every principle of justice and sound policy. These, however, were the individuals to whom the hon. member was inclined to ascribe every disposition, if they possessed but the power, to do evil;—of whom he knew nothing, of whom he had no experience, and whose whole conduct had been a system of patience and endurance under disappointed hope. Born to rank—entitled, by their services in the army and navy, to have risen to those high offices in the state, those dignities and employments which were the great objects of ambition in every country to every honourable mind, they yet bore their privation of those benefits with unexampled patience, contenting themselves with presenting the most humble, moderate, and reasonable petitions to that House. If in the sister country, where education was more limited, and knowledge less, there had been agitation, and the passions of the people had been carried beyond the bounds of expediency, and even of propriety, that example had never been followed by the Catholics in this country. On the contrary, he had ever considered the conduct of the latter worthy the greatest praise which a thinking mind could bestow upon it. Would the hon. member, if it had happened to him to have inherited the Catholic religion from his ancestors—to have seen all his hopes of rising in the world blighted—to find that no exertions, no honourable services, could raise him beyond the level to which injustice had assigned him—would he have displayed as much patience as the English Catholics had done? He would advise the hon. member, when next he had the courage to vent his unfounded accusations, to acquire some little knowledge whereon to build them, and not to asperse persons respecting whose character and conduct he was utterly destitute of information. The hon. member had ended his speech in a manner quite worthy its commencement. With the littleness and shallowness which distinguished a mind that was narrow, he had endeavoured to twit the right hon. Secretary with a garbled extract from a speech which he had twelve years ago delivered. He was convinced that the right hon. gentleman had a mind infinitely superior to taunts so petty. Conscious of having discharged a great duty to his country, he was not a man to be turned aside, or even nettled by such insignificant, puny, and contemptible taunts. Was the right hon. gentleman, after having made sacrifices which the hon. member could not even comprehend, to be lectured by him? He had abstained from saying one word with respect to the great measure in progress, and he intended to have done the same with respect to the course which the right hon. gentleman had pursued; but if the right hon. gentleman was to be attacked by the hon. member for Dover, he hoped he would estimate his attacks as they deserved. He had heard the various accusations preferred against the right hon. gentleman. He had heard him charged with inconsistency on the one hand, and with the love of place on the other. In his humble judgment, the right hon. gentleman had been guilty of neither. That opinion, undoubtedly, could not be formed on the principle of favour; for, when the right hon. gentleman had sat on one side of the House, he had invariably sat on the other. He, however, knew of no inconsistency in varying the means to attain the same end. He saw no inconsistency, when the right hon. gentleman's object was to preserve the integrity of the Protestant church, in his resorting to Catholic emancipation as the means. The House had been told, that there was no change of circumstances,—that the circumstances which the right hon. gentleman had detailed, were the same which had occurred before; but, in the name of, common sense, was not the very continuance of those circumstances a change? He would ask any man, whether it did not prove, first, that the causes of the disturbances were permanent; and, secondly, that the remedies which had been attempted to be applied, had failed? He would ask, whether a government which was desirous of preserving peace with foreign countries, might not, without inconsistency, feel itself called upon to declare war, in order to attain their object more effectually? In the physical, as in the moral system, remedies were frequently resorted to in the last extremity, which at the commencement of the disorder would have been most deprecated. With respect to the right hon. gentleman's remaining in office, he would say, that if he had resigned his office, he would have deserted his duty, and betrayed his country. If his advice to bring forward the measure of emancipation had been honestly given and accepted by the Crown, if he had then withdrawn his authority and power,—if he had been guilty of the cowardice, the pusillanimity, and, he would add, the baseness, for the sake of continuing at the head of a great party, to abandon his office, and thus have deprived the government of the most effectual means of carrying the measure, he would have pronounced him a traitor to his king, and to the best interests of his country. The right hon. gentleman's continuance in office was the best test of his sincerity, and of the great sacrifice he could make for the public good. He well knew how the right hon. gentleman had stood, and now stood, in the estimation of the country. He knew that he had been considered the leader and head of a great and powerful body, comprising much of the old aristocracy, and of the great body of the ecclesiastical establishment. It was, indeed, a matter of pride and glory to be the head of such a party. Differing as he did in opinion from that party, still he must acknowledge that its rank, talent, and respectability, rendered it a fair object of ambition in any man to be at its head. The right hon. gentleman had abandoned that eminent station. That was, indeed, a sacrifice. He could hardly restrain his indignation when he heard it insinuated, that it was attachment to office which kept the right hon. gentleman in place. Above all men living, he could have no such object. Compared with being at the head of a great and powerful party, if his principles would have permitted, the holding of office must be to the right hon. gentleman but as dust. The right hon. gentleman had given notice of his intention to vacate his seat far the University of Oxford, and he perceived that many persons whom he had the honour to know, of great character, learning, and respectability, had declared their determination to oppose his re-election. Giving those gentlemen all possible credit, he believed that, if the question to be decided were between the merits of the Roman Catholic and the Protestant religion, there could be no better tribunal to refer it to, than that which they composed; but when the question was one of a political nature,—when the interests of the state were at stake,—when the settlement of it required a knowledge of every thing connected with the subject, required liberality of mind, and feeling, and above all, required the recollection, that the great aim of all was peace, and the preservation of the country's establishments, he must confess that he could pay no great deference to the determination of the individuals to whom he had alluded. Men even with their opinions and feelings, if they could see and understand at all, must he aware, that the question of emancipation should not stand over for a single day. Considering that the question about to be decided at Oxford, was not whether the opinion of the Catholic emancipators, or of the Catholic oppressors, was the right one, but only who was the fittest person to represent the University, he thought they could not do themselves more honour than by re-electing the right hon. gentleman. Elect whom they might, they could find no one capable of giving greater proofs of talent, and honourable principle, than their present representative.

said, he was indebted to the courtesy of his hon. friend (Mr. Trant) for a copy of the speech, an extract of which he had read as a warning to him against the course which he was pursuing on the present occasion. He had no doubt that it was not the intention of his hon. friend to wound his feelings by the reference; but, in one sense, he might be said to have done so; for as his hon. friend had found only one strong passage in the whole, he owned he was ashamed at having made so bad a speech [a laugh.] But, the very passage by which his hon. friend had meant indirectly to reproach him, and to confirm his own views of continued resistance to Catholic emancipation, would apply to the present circumstances, and to the course he was now taking. He would ask his hon. friend to look to the state of Ireland, and say whether the state of political excitement into which it was cast, from one end to the other, was a state in which it ought to be allowed to remain. Let him ask himself seriously, if such a state of things as put party against party,—Catholic against Protestant,—as placed the House of Lords, as it were, in opposition to the House of Commons,—whether that was a state in which a nation ought to be allowed to remain, without a hope being held out that there was to be no settlement of the question which created such division? Was not that, he would ask, a state to which the opinion of Mr. Hume, which he had quoted on the occasion referred to, would well apply? Mr. Hume, he had observed, when speaking of the reigns of James I. and his two successors, said "that a religious spirit, when it mingles with the spirit of faction, contains in it something supernatural, and that, in its operations on society effects correspond less to their known causes, than in any other circumstances of government." It was because he (Mr. Peel) saw that a spirit of religion had mingled with a spirit of faction, and that from this mixture he foresaw consequences upon which no man could think without just apprehension, that he had come to the conclusion, that it would be better for the security of Protestant interests and the safety of Protest- ant establishments, to come to an amicable settlement of the question, rather than allow it to remain in its unbalanced state. It was because he feared the consequences of leaving it unsettled that he had taken the course which his hon. friend had blamed as inconsistent. As his hon. friend had been studying the speech to which he referred, would he allow him to state, with reference to the allusion made to the British Catholics, that now, in the altered state of circumstances, he looked back with pleasure to the fact, that though he had felt it his duty to give his decided opposition to any further concessions to the Catholics of Ireland, he had not evinced an uncompromising resistance; for he had advocated the extension of the privileges of the Roman Catholics of England? In adverting to the opinions of his hon. friend on this question, which he fully admitted were dictated by the purest motives, he would beg of him to consider attentively the principles on which he had stated and evinced his opinion, that an opposition to the measure ought to be candid; and as his hon. friend had done him the honour to notice his speech, he would venture to assure him, that his opposition would not be the less effectual, if its tone and temper were more in conformity with the spirit and principles of that speech. He would particularly call the attention of his hon. friend to the passage of the speech which he was about to read,—

"I will avoid, as far as possible, every topic which can tend to inflame or even to give offence. I will not revive the memory of ancient struggles for ascendancy, and if any advantage to my argument might be derived from dwelling on instances wherein power has been abused, or revengeful feelings have been indulged, that advantage I cheerfully resign. I will not impute to the Roman Catholic Church any doctrines which are not avowed; and I will give to the professors of that faith, the full advantage of every disclaimer they have made. If the privileges required are to be conceded, I have no wish to lessen the grace of concession. If the hopes of the Roman Catholics shall be disappointed, that disappointment I will not aggravate.^*" Under the altered circumstances, in which, with reference to this question he now stood, if he should be reminded of his uniform opposition to it heretofore, it was no inconsiderable satisfaction to him to have placed in his hands such a record of the spirit and temper in which that opposition was conducted.

^* See First Series, V, xxxvi. p. 414.

said, he had risen merely to remark on the comparison made by the right hon. member for Liverpool between the English and Irish Catholics, and to set the House right on that point. As to the speech of the right hon. Secretary, he had taken it in the sense in which it was used on the occasion referred to; and he owned he had felt much convinced by the arguments which it contained.

in presenting petitions from Anglesey, Holyhead, and other places in Wales, against further concession, observed, that in stating his concurrence in the prayer of the petitions, he could not but express his surprise and regret at the measure which the noble duke at the head of the government had proposed to parliament, more particularly after the letter on the subject which he had written to Dr. Curtis. He could not avoid expressing his decided opinion, that the noble duke had deceived both Protestants and Catholics.