said, he would withdraw the motion of which he had given notice, respecting Turnpike Trusts. He had had some conversation with the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and finding that right hon. gentleman disposed to look at the subject in much the same way as he did, he thought it better to leave it in such good hands.

said, he did not rise to object to the third reading of this bill, the sooner it passed into a law the better, but for the purpose of putting a question to the Secretary of State for the Home Department. He thought it a very proper opportunity, for it was the only one that might present itself for some time, if the report that the right hon. gentleman was about to relinquish his seat in parliament for a short period, was true. If he recollected right, the right hon. gentleman, in commenting on his majesty's Speech, had spoken of dangers which were only known to himself, and which had not been communicated to the public. Now, he wished to know what those dangers were? Or whether there were dangers apprehended by the right hon. gentleman, besides those stated to be apprehended by him, in the speech in which the present bill was introduced? They were all aware, that great dissatisfaction subsisted in Ireland. They were all previously apprised of much tumult, and of an apprehension of conflict, though no conflict had actually taken place. These were facts known to every individual; but what he wanted now to know was, what were the peculiar dangers stated by the right hon. gentleman to have been apprehended by him, and respecting which, his ministerial situation afforded him peculiar advantages of information. The right hon. gentleman had certainly laid some documents before the House on a former night; but if these were all the statements he had to submit as evidence of these dangers, he could assure him they had created universal disappointment. There were a thousand ridiculous rumours abroad. It was stated, and he had met with twenty members of that House who believed it, that there were many Catholics in the army ready to resist if called upon to act. Then it was reported, that foreign powers had remonstrated with this country, and that America had secretly supplied Ireland with arms [a laugh]. He really only mentioned these absurdities, in order that they might be contradicted. It was scarcely credible that a rational man could entertain them; and yet many men out of that House,—aye, and in that House too [a laugh]—did seriously entertain an opinion, that the right hon. gentleman would never have given his assent, to the measure in contemplation, and have become the executioner of his own principles, if he did not know of something, which the public were not permitted to know. For his own part, he was rather inclined to think that the right hon. gentleman had explained all that he did know upon the matter; and yet he hoped the right hon. gentleman would say so at once, and allay the alarms which so generally prevailed. Much as he was inclined to admit the impropriety of anticipating discussions, yet this having been fairly made a preliminary measure, and the statements in support of it not being sufficient to satisfy him of the propriety of the other measure, he felt himself justified in putting these questions to the right hon. gentleman.

said, that the grounds on which his gallant friend had put these questions appeared to him to be the most extraordinary possible. His gallant friend had said, that there were a thousand ridiculous and extravagant reports abroad, and therefore he asked him to contradict two of them, in order to calm the public mind. The very nature of these reports would justify him in taking no notice of them; but he must protest against the principle on which his gallant friend proceeded, lest by contradicting two only, among so many absurdities, he should seem to admit the rest. He had stated, on the occasion referred to by his gallant friend, that he and his right hon. friends, from the stations they had the honour to fill, were in possession of in formation respecting the state of Ireland, which others could not be supposed to possess; and he had, moreover, given to the House a specimen of that information which, for the last six months, had been pouring into the office of the Home Department. As to what the gallant officer had said respecting rumours of interference and remonstrance on the part of foreign powers, he was sure the House would see he had no right to contradict such absurdities. But he was mistaken if he had not stated to the House that, at no period in the history of this country, could England have undertaken the settlement of this question with so much honour and safety as at the present period, when her relations with foreign powers were in such a condition as they had not been for the last four hundred years. He had said that, he knew of no circumstance, either foreign or domestic, which could prevent the House, from undertaking the settlement of the question, with the most perfect honour, and with the most perfect consistency, in reference to its own dignity. The grounds on which he thought such a settlement advisable were to be found in the representations he had made of the state of society in Ireland, of the Protestant interest, and the Protestant institutions of that country. His gallant friend appeared to be disappointed at finding that the condition of Ireland was not so bad as he had thought it was. He could not but regret, that the picture which he had pourtrayed of the state of intercourse between man and man in Ireland, had not come up to the expectations of his gallant friend. To him it had appeared bad enough; and, though he had never thought that this condition of things was of such a nature that it could not be suppressed by physical force, yet he had thought it was of a nature calculated to induce them to consider, whether it would not be much better to attempt an adjustment of the question, than to go on as they had for the last sixteen years, with a disunited government and a divided parliament. It was true there were dangers; but, if it were supposed that he meant to say that in legislating for Ireland, that House was to do so under the influence of fear, he had been most strangely misunderstood.

said, he was extremely glad to hear from the right hon. gentleman, that there was nothing in their foreign relations which could influence them in granting or refusing concessions to the Catholics. He rejoiced, too, in learning, that there was nothing in the state of Ireland which was calculated to intimidate the House, in their consideration of this great question. The only thing, then, that could have made so deep an impression on the mind of his majesty's ministers was the supposed state of society in Ireland. Now he could bear some testimony on this point. For many years he had been accustomed to observe the effect of political movements on society in Ireland, and he had no hesitation in saying, that society in Ireland, so far from being benefitted by what was called a settlement of this question, would, by that settlement, be exposed to dangers with which it had never before been threatened.

wished to know whether any measures would be taken respecting the money which the Catholic Association had now in hand. He understood that the Association was in possession of funds to a large amount, which had been collected illegally; and he wished to know how it was intended to dispose of those funds.

said, he really could not tell what would be done with this money. The bill before the House did not confiscate the funds to which the noble lord alluded; but it prevented the future meeting of the Association in its present character, or in any other character which might be considered inconsistent with the preservation of public peace and the due administration of the laws.

said, that on a former occasion the right hon. Secretary had expressed his firm conviction that after an adjustment of the claims of the Catholics, the whole of the Protestants of that country would be unanimous in upholding the laws, and in resisting all attempts to disturb the public peace. He, going further than the right hon. gentleman, was at a loss to conceive how the hon. member for Dublin could say, that the adjustment of those claims would increase, instead of lessen, the dangers to which Ireland was now exposed. Not only would it have the effect anticipated by the right hon. gentleman, but it would also ensure them the co-operation of the Catholics in Ireland, and the assistance of Catholic legislators in that House to put down any associations, the effect of which should be to disturb the peace of Ireland, or to infringe the laws of that country. He must, however, take that opportunity of saying, that he hoped that in no part of a measure which was to restore some political rights, would there be any thing which would destroy other political rights. Whatever regulations might be thought necessary with respect to the elective franchise of Ireland, he did hope that they would follow and not be mixed up with that great measure. He could not help feeling convinced that the state of the elective franchise of that country had, in some measure, contributed to place the question of the Catholic claims where it was; and he therefore sincerely hoped that it would not be mixed with the measure in contemplation. He regretted that this measure should be persevered in after the Catholic Association had met the wishes of government by dissolving itself. He could not help feeling some gratitude to the Association, because it was undoubtedly owing to it that the measure, so necessary for the peace of Ireland, was to be brought before Parliament. He, however, felt too much gratitude to the right hon. gentleman for his noble conduct with respect to this question to offer any opposition to the present bill.

The bill was then read a third time.

, after observing, that the causes which had last year induced him and so many other persons to wish for an amendment of the Game Laws, had increased rather than diminished,—and, after expressing his wish to bring forward a measure on the subject with as little delay as possible, moved for leave to bring in a bill to amend the Game Laws.

was of opinion, that measures of this nature had hitherto proceeded on wrong grounds. He attributed poaching, and the evils resulting from it, not so much to the game laws, as to the incompleteness of property, the accumulation of game in preserves, its defenceless condition, and the propensity of monied men to purchase it. The preserves were, in fact, the real cause of the mischief; and he thought it exceedingly desirable that the feeding of pheasants should be discouraged by prohibiting the growth of the articles necessary for that purpose.

observed, that in that case the hon. gentleman would wish to discourage the growth of barley and oats.

replied, that of course he would only wish to prevent their being grown for the special purpose which he had mentioned.

earnestly recommended his hon. friend to separate his intended measure, and in the first place to bring in a bill to permit the sale of game, and afterwards to introduce the more complicated and difficult part of the subject.

was convinced, that the only way to remove the existing evil would be, in the first place, to repeal the Game Laws altogether. They would then see their way to a better system of measures, by which property in game might be preserved, consistently with the encouragement of sport.

said, it was quite evident that something must be done upon the subject; but he thought it would be much better to let his hon. friend introduce his measure, in conformity to his own views and opinions.

was afraid he should incur his hon. friend's censure, by the advice he was about to offer. What he recommended was, the consolidation and amendment of all the laws relating to Game. At the same time, lie was not very sanguine that any amendment would produce a great diminution of poaching, while the present system of game-preserves was maintained. At all events, the legislation on the subject ought not to, be left in its present state.

Leave was given to bring in the Bill.

moved for leave to bring in a bill, to amend the Laws for the relief of Insolvent Debtors in Ireland.

wished to know, whether the noble lord had made any inquiry into the proceedings of the Insolvent Courts in Ireland? If so, he was persuaded the noble lord must be of opinion, that the law on that subject in Ireland was not only not beneficial, but highly inconvenient and injurious. If they might judge of them by the returns respecting the English Courts, it would be found, on a reference to the latter, that on an amount of fourteen millions, which had come within the purview of the English Court, only one farthing in the pound had been paid. He intended to move on Thursday next for certain returns connected with the Debtors' Court in Ireland, when he would show the House, that the expense the public was put to, greatly exceeded the returns which were made. It was notorious in England, that that Court was made use of for purposes of fraud, and the encouragement of useless expense. He therefore pressed the noble lord to direct his attention to the propriety of putting an end to the practice of arresting for debt altogether; or at least when the debt was less than 20l., as was the case in England. He was informed that there were at present confined in Ireland, twenty-four persons for a debt, the aggregate amount of which was 432l., and the years of their imprisonment amounted, on the aggregate, to one hundred and forty-four. Out of six hundred and sixty persons confined for debt in Ireland, three hundred and fifty were for sums under 20l., and only one hundred and seventy who were confined for sums exceeding 100l.

suggested the propriety of postponing the discussion on this subject until the bill was introduced.

Leave was granted to bring in the bill.