rose to present a Petition from the Mill-men, Silk-throwsters, and others engaged in the Silk-manufacture at Macclesfield, who represented their distresses as very great, and increasing daily, and praying an inquiry into their causes, and the best means of removing them. As he resided in the immediate vicinity of the petitioners, he could bear testimony to the truth of the distressing representations contained in the petition. It was heart-rending to see the misery and poverty which prevailed amongst them; it was lamentable to witness the state of the town, where there were no less than five hundred houses uninhabited, and a large number of the mills altogether idle. The worst circumstance, however, in the whole case was, that at least one-half of the workmen were living on charity. This was a state of things which could not last. Something must be done to mitigate the sufferings which the Silk-throwsters were labouring under. The changes which had taken place in the laws upon this subject had been unquestionably made with the best intentions; but if laws were found to have failed in attaining their object, or to have produced an entirely opposite effect from that contemplated, they ought to be subjected to the revision of parliament.

said, that the hon. member seemed to have mistaken the causes of the distress which unquestionably was very extensive. The changes which had been made in the law, so far from having produced the distress, had produced a contrary effect upon the Silk-manufacture. The most intelligent amongst the Silk-manufacturers looked upon the changes as beneficial to the manufacture, and believed that any departure from the present system would aggravate the distress. According to the reasoning of the petitioners, if the English manufacturers had been injured by the changes of the law, the French must have profited in the same proportion. Now, so far were the French manufacturers from having derived any benefit from the changes, they had been considerably injured by them, and would look upon a repeal of the present law as one of the greatest benefits they could receive. The true cause of the present distress was, that the manufacture had been extended beyond the demand. This was a circumstance which was not peculiar to the Silk-trade, as the same was the fact with regard to the Cotton trade. The evil which was the result of excessive manufacturing was increased by the use of machinery. The only relief was to be procured by extending the consumption of silk goods, which would indeed be the natural result of the lowness of price. As the principal cause of the diminution of consumption was the extent to which smuggling was carried, that cause must be increased by any increase of duty upon importation, and still more by a prohibition. A change in the present laws would, therefore; increase rather than diminish the evil.

did not rise to controvert the arguments of the hon. baronet, but merely to confirm the statement which had been made respecting the distress under which the petitioners laboured. He thought he was not going too far in recommending government to take the matter into consideration.

said, that the distress of which the petitioners complained prevailed throughout the kingdom, and deserved the serious attention of the House. The Board of Trade could not, if it were applied to, effect any beneficial alteration, without an examination of parties engaged in the trade, for the purpose of ascertaining the real operation of the change in the law. This was the only way by which any good could be effected; and to such an inquiry he was willing to give his support.

said, that whatever doubt might be entertained as to what was the cause of the present distress in the Silk-trade, there could be no doubt that it had not been caused by the changes which had been made in the law. The silk manufacture had increased since those changes had been made, and if the present system should be persevered in must increase much more. The real cause of the depression was that which had been stated by the duke of Wellington in his answer to the memorial of the silk weavers; namely, the great increase of smuggling; and, if gentlemen would attentively consider the question, they would see that the most salutary measure which could be adopted in the present circumstances would be the diminution of the duty on importation. He believed that the course which the government had adopted was the best which could have been followed; and he hoped that they would persevere in it, and not be led away by statements, which certainly were of a most distressing nature, but which were accompanied with wrong views of the cause of the evil.

thought that the hon. baronet had clearly proved what he did not mean to prove; namely, the necessity of a committee; and if no one else should move for the appointment of one, he would.

said, he had the honour to present a Petition from the Parish of Saxilby, in the County of Lincoln, praying that the Roman Catholics should not be admitted to seats in the Legislature, or to any of the high offices of State. In presenting it, he should have abstained from making any observations on it, had it not been for the conduct of members on the opposite side of the House, who had attempted to vilify all the petitions presented against concession to the Catholics, by describing them as having been got up in holes and corners! They endeavoured to invalidate the respectability of the persons who had signed these petitions, because the sentiments which they contained were gall and wormwood to them. The petition which he now presented was not got up in holes and corners, but was the uncontrolled expression of the sentiments of men distinguished for wealth, consequence, intelligence, and a warm attachment to the constitution. He was not at all surprised, that persons who, like the petitioners had been for years lulled in security by a reliance that they had ministers who would preserve their constitution inviolate, should now, when the constitution was about to be attacked by those very ministers, come forth and perform the duty which they owed to their country and their sovereign. He could not avoid calling the attention of the House to a speech which was reported to have been spoken the day before at a tavern in London, and in which it had been stated, that "the concession of Catholic emancipation would secure the stability of the empire, and knit together the hearts of all the people of this country." He treated such language with the contempt which it merited. They were words—"full of sound and fury," but, thank God! "signifying nothing."

presented a petition to the same effect from West Bromwich. The petitioners, he said, being anxious to preserve a pure and Scriptural religion, were apprehensive of the consequences of admitting Catholics to political power. They prayed that, if the Romanists could show, that they did not enjoy full toleration, it might be extended to them. These sentiments were the same which he had maintained for twenty years, and he had not as yet heard a single reason for changing them. He was the uncompromising opponent of all concession of political power to the Roman Catholics.

said, that the hon. member and his friends professed to be extremely fond of toleration; but he had observed that toleration was most frequently talked of by the intolerant. The want of toleration in the hon. members was not, however, confined to the Romanists, as they called them; for the hon. gentleman had last year been as hostile to the prayer of the Dissenters for relief, as he was now to the claims of the Catholics.

presented a petition from the magistrates, clergy, merchants, householders, and other inhabitants of the city of Bristol and its vicinity, praying that Roman Catholics might not be allowed to sit in either House of parliament, and that no further political power might be granted to persons professing the Roman Catholic religion. The hon. gentleman called the especial attention of the House to this petition; not only on account of the great number of names attached to it, but because he believed in his conscience, that no petition from a populous city had ever more faithfully expressed the opinion of its inhabitants. As so much had, in another place, been mis-stated, and he was sorry to add, most pertinaciously, respecting this petition, it was necessary that he should state how it originated. Some time before the session commenced, the various parishes of Bristol, through their vestries, signed separate petitions against further concession to the Roman Catholics. The signatures were most numerous and highly respectable; but, as these petitions did not originate from public meetings, it was thought that it would be a more satisfactory test of public opinion, on a question of such vital importance, if a petition should be addressed to the legislature which had the sanction of a public meeting expressly called for that purpose. A deputation of gentlemen waited on the mayor, who declined taking the chair on such an occasion. On this account the intention was postponed, until circumstances should render such a meeting necessary. On the 4th of February, one of the gentlemen who had interested himself on this occasion, received a letter from town with information, that the king's Speech would recommend the disabilities of the Roman Catholics to the consideration of parliament. The principal opponents of those claims in Bristol immediately assembled, and in the first instance determined instantly to call a Meeting of the inhabitants upon the subject; but on consideration they adjourned to the 6th of February, the day after the Speech was delivered from the Throne. On reading that Speech, they resolved to lose no time in appealing to the people of Bristol. A large number of respectable individuals signed a requisition to the Mayor to call a meeting of the inhabitants, and applied to him to allow the Guildhall to be the place of meeting. Subsequently, however, so strong a popular feeling evinced itself, that, as the Guildhall of Bristol could not contain more than two thousand persons, it was judged better that the meeting should be held in Queen-square, in which, very appropriately, was a statue of king William. He would not pretend to state the number of persons who were present on the occasion. All allowed that it was the largest assemblage that had been seen in Bristol for many years. Some said that there were ten, some fifteen, some twenty, and some five-and-twenty thousand persons. The question having been debated, was fairly put, and by a most overwhelming majority the petition which he held in his hand was carried. The signatures to it, which were not exclusively those of the inhabitants of Bristol, but comprehended the parishes within ten miles, amounted to thirty-eight thousand eight hundred and ninety-four. He begged to add, that the signatures had undergone a strict examination, and that the names of every one who had signed twice, as well as of all females, had been struck out. For himself, he regretted that it had been considered necessary to exclude from the petition this the most interesting portion of the creation. He should like to know on what principle this was done. Had not a female housekeeper as great a right to express the interest she felt in a question of such vital importance, that it might he said all other interests were absorbed in it? Did not the laws of this country permit a female to sit upon the throne, and had not a charter of one of our kings given to the females of Bristol who were daughters of freemen the right to make their husbands free? He feared he had made out a case of ingratitude, as well as of want of gallantry, against his constituents; and he would therefore not push the point further than by hoping that his lady constituents would be treated better on future occasions? He had never before presented a petition signed by more than fifteen thousand names. The petition, therefore, must be considered as a decisive expression of the public voice. He trusted that this voice would reach, and make a due impression on, his majesty's ministers, and excite other large portions of the Protestant population to come forward at this critical moment, in defence of the constitution in church and state. At all events, he had the proud satisfaction of knowing that his constituents had signally performed their duty. He would endeavour to tread in their footsteps, although non passibus œguis; and he called upon the House at this awful crisis to perform their duty, by protecting the Protestant constitution of this country as established at that sacred era of our laws and liberties, which laid the founda tion of the prosperity and greatness of this country on a rock which he had hoped, and still trusted, would never be shaken. He wished to say one word before he sat down on the recent change of conduct of his right hon. friend, the Secretary of State for the Home Department. No man lamented more deeply that change than he did; but he was bound to declare his conviction, that it arose from no unworthy motive. On the contrary, he thought that no public man had ever made a greater sacrifice of political power than he had done; and, as he believed, from a conviction, however erroneous, that the preservation of his consistency, under present circumstances, would have been injurious to the great interests of the empire at large.

—Am I right in supposing the hon. member to say, that the thirty-eight thousand signatures attached to the petition are those of inhabitants of Bristol alone?

—No. Of Bristol, and the parishes ten miles round.

corroborated the statement of his hon. colleague. He could state, from a paper which he held in his hand, that twenty-four thousand, seven hundred and twelve of the names affixed to the petition were those of inhabitants of Bristol.

doubted very much, whether those who had been employed in striking out double signatures and the names of females had done their duty; for, by the last census, the population of Bristol was calculated at eighty-seven thousand, and of these one half were children. Of the remaining adults one-half only were males. It would consequently require more than one-half of the male adults of Bristol to make up the twenty-four thousand seven hundred and twelve, of whom the hon. member for Bristol had just spoken. Moreover, his learned friend, the member for Winchelsea, had the other night presented a petition in favour of the Catholic claims from one thousand seven hundred inhabitants of Bristol, which number must also be deducted from the amount of male adults. The twenty-four thousand seven hundred and twelve signatures could not, therefore, have been those of male adult inhabitants of Bristol; and he was quite sure that, when he should take these facts into consideration, the honourable gentleman him self would be very far from asserting, that those were the signatures of inhabitants of Bristol only. So much for numbers. The petition had also stated that it was that of the magistrates, clergy, merchants, and inhabitants of Bristol. Now, the mayor had not signed it; and among the signatures to the petition presented by his learned friend, the member for Winchelsea, were those of several clergymen and merchants. Consequently, the petition in the hands of the hon. member could not be viewed as the petition of the magistrates, clergy, and merchants of Bristol. He had been informed that, in the petition now before the House, the word "undersigned" was inserted, but, by some manœuvre or another, the word was struck out. He did not mean to say that for these or any such reasons the petition should be rejected, or that the meeting in which it originated was not called by the legitimate authority; he only desired to impress on the House the necessity of looking carefully to the signatures appended to petitions of this nature, in order that they might not receive false impressions, as to the real state of public feeling on this great question.

said, he was surprised at the observations of the hon. gentleman, and would undertake to say, that a more respectable, weighty, or important representation had not been made to that House during the present or any former session, and that never had there been a more unanimous expression of public opinion than that conveyed in the petition. He could not refrain from remarking that other petitions on the same subject, respectably, though not so numerously, signed, had been treated by honourable members on the other side of the House in a manner utterly derogatory to the usages of parliament, not creditable to themselves, and at variance with their own expressed sentiments in favour of the free exercise of public opinion. Whatever might be his opinions on the momentous question which was about to be submitted to the consideration of parliament, he was determined that proper respect should be paid to the opinions of the people, on the one side as well as on the other. Of the present petition he would undertake to say, that it was not to be surpassed in weight and respectability by any that would be presented. He believed that it had been agitated in Bristol before the Speech from the Throne had been delivered. What effect the news of that Speech would have in Bristol, he could not tell; but he did hope that the people in that, as well as in other parts of the empire, would receive the announcement from the Throne with all that respect to which it was entitled. He hoped they would pause before they expressed any angry feeling on the subject. He hoped they would meet the question, as Englishmen should do, with an anxious desire to settle it on a satisfactory basis. There were undoubtedly great interests involved in the subject, which parliament must attend to, and which he was confident parliament would attend to; and he had no doubt that, under the blessing of Providence, the wisdom of that House, and of the other House, and of the Sovereign on the throne, as the three estates of the realm, would produce such a result as would be satisfactory to the empire at large.—He wished to say one word with respect to the right hon. Secretary for the Home Department. He had not had hitherto an opportunity of delivering his opinion respecting that right hon. gentleman's conduct since it had been commented upon in that House, and since it had been animadverted upon out of the House, in a manner disgraceful to the British nation, disgraceful to the British press, and revolting to the best feelings of Englishmen. From all that he knew of that right hon. gentleman, he would venture to say, that he had only come to the result at which he had arrived, after mature deliberation, and from an honest integrity of purpose, which did honour to him as a man, and which deserved the confidence, and not the reprobation, of the House.

agreed with the hon. baronet, that the petitions of the people ought to be received with the greatest respect; and he would not hesitate to animadvert on the conduct of any hon. member, who might seem disposed to treat them slightingly. But his objection to the present petition was, that it had been signed by persons who, while themselves exercising the right of petitioning, had prevented others from exercising the same right. The petition which had been presented from Bristol by the hon. and learned member for Winchelsea, was signed by 1700 people; but it would have been signed by many more, had not the mayor required it to be withdrawn, in consequence of a riot which took place in Bristol.

explained the manner in which the two Bristol petitions had been lying for signatures, the one at the Guildhall, the other at the Exchange; the mistakes which had occurred by parties signing the wrong petition; the applications to erase those names; the refusal, the subsequent riot, breaking of tables, &c.; and the proposition made by the Mayor to withdraw both petitions. He admitted that but for those occurrences the petition in favour of the Catholics might have received a few more signatures; but only a few. With respect to the male population of Bristol, he believed it to be much more numerous than an hon. gentleman supposed. He thought it approached 60,000; he was sure it exceeded 50,000. He had never stated that "all" the magistrates, clergy, &c. had signed the petition which he held in his hand; but only that a large majority of them had done so.

expressed a hope, that the hon. member for Bletchingly, as he had shown so much anxiety to ascertain what was the real opinion of the people of Bristol respecting the Catholic question, would support the motion, which stood for that evening respecting the number of petitions for and against Catholic emancipation.

suggested to the hon. member the propriety of adding, in the list he was about to move for, an account of the professions of the persons signing the petitions. The purpose, however, for which he now rose was to protest against the statement made by the hon. baronet, the member for Somersetshire, that any attempt was made by gentlemen on his side of the House to discourage the right of petitioning. On the contrary, they maintained that that right ought to be considered as most sacred, and he would venture to say that there were no persons more disposed to pay attention to any representation coming from the people of this country, than those members who sat on his side of the House. But it was because they so highly valued the right of petitioning, that they thought it necessary, when arts were used to make a factitious appearance of petitioning, and a show of opinions not actually entertained, to examine strictly the character and nature of petitions. It was a fact publicly stated, that the present petition from Bristol had been signed by school-boys of ten or eleven years of age, and their names had been given in the Bristol newspapers. Supposing this to be the case, the hon. baronet would surely allow that it was a legitimate ground for inquiry. Let gentlemen consider the nature of the question which was the subject of the present petition. It was not a question immediately affecting the rights of Protestant laymen. The measure proposed to be brought forward would not take away any of their rights or privileges; nor, according to the recommendation contained in the King's Speech, would it touch the rights or privileges of the clergy. The question was, whether the Roman Catholics could not be admitted to participate in all the benefits of the constitution, with perfect security to the rights and privileges of the clergy and laity. On this question all the men of genius and talents in this country had been exercising their abilities during the last five and twenty years. Was it not too much to say, that we should place greater reliance on the opinions of children under ten or eleven years of age, than on the opinions of such persons? Were the sentiments of such men as Pitt, and Burke, and Fox, and Grattan, to be for a moment compared with the sentiments expressed in a petition got up by artificial means, and signed by many persons who must, of necessity, be wholly unacquainted with the real merits of the question? That was his objection; and it did not in the least apply to the fair and legitimate exercise of the right of petitioning.

said, he was always ready to do ample justice to the motives of the noble lord and his hon. friends; but still he must say, that on one or two occasions they had attempted to cut down the force of the expression of public opinion, when in favour of that side of the question to which they were opposed. If boys under ten years of age had been permitted to sign the petition, he perfectly agreed with the noble lord, that it was an absurd act, incapable of justification. But the House had heard the hon. member for Bristol declare, that he did not know that any such signatures had been permitted. Under any circumstances it was not very credible. He did not believe that the practice could have been carried to any extent. But even if a few boys had been allowed to sign the petition, of what importance was that, as compared with the great fact, that the petition had been signed by 38,894 persons? Of that number the incalculably greater portion must have been legitimate signatures.

expressed his surprise, that it should be considered that the Catholic question was a subject fit only for the consideration of learned statesmen and philosophers. He believed that the city of Bristol contained many persons as competent to judge of the merits of that question as any individual who had a seat in that House. The poorer and the middling classes of society acted with reference to this question, not so much from what they knew as from what they felt. Not from what they knew of present measures, but from what they felt from their knowledge of past events; and who, judging in that way, could not be deceived, for there were examples, in the history of the country, with which men of the most ordinary information were well acquainted, and which suggested to them natural and just apprehensions of the consequences likely to ensue from the enactments against which they petitioned. This was the nature of the popular feeling, and of the sentiments expressed in this petition. It should be recollected, that gentlemen were not the representatives of the learned and the great only, but also of the common people; and if they did not consult their feelings, they would be very unfit representatives indeed. He should not have said thus much, had not observations been made on this petition, which it by no means called for. The petition had been publicly exposed to the people of Bristol ever since it was known, from the King's Speech, that ministers intended to make an alteration in the laws. The people had had their apprehensions before; and after that announcement those apprehensions were confirmed. The petition was, in consequence, exposed in public places, and, with the signatures it obtained, now lay on the table. Let any man say that a petition signed by such a multitude was palmed upon the House. Gentlemen might talk of the freedom of petitioning, and declare that they would not criticise petitions too closely: but yet the House was called upon to criticise this petition by a census taken many years ago. He said, in answer to this, that the names affixed to this petition were not all those of persons actually resident in Bristol, but some of persons living in the neighbourhood. He did not say, but that it might be signed, in some instances, by boys of an early age, nor that it might not contain double signatures. It was probable that it did; but he saw no objection to that; it showed a zealous feeling on the subject. It was also urged that, because the petition did not call itself the petition of the undersigned, it was informal. Such an objection as this was only fit for one of the inferior courts of common law. However the petition was designated—whether of the undersigned, or of the magistrates, clergy, and inhabitants—he apprehended that, in parliamentary language, it could only be received as the petition of the undersigned. Such little attempts at criticism showed the spirit with which these efforts of the people were met. He had determined to say but little on this petition, because, although it was supported by a great multitude of his constituents, yet there were those whom he loved and respected most highly, who were adverse to it; but, when reflections were made upon it, he should feel himself unworthy of the trust reposed in him, if he did not declare his conviction that the petition contained the almost unanimous sense of the city of Bristol, Let those who petitioned on the opposite side of the question enjoy the benefit of the objections which they raised to this petition. Respectable as they were, they were not so numerous, and could not be made so numerous, as those whose sentiments it expressed.

said, that boys and girls had signed the petition. He had lately witnessed some miraculous conversions; but the most miraculous was the fact of the gentlemen opposed to emancipation resorting, for the first time in their lives, to this practical adoption of universal suffrage. They even, according to a letter which he had received, took the petition to the gaol, and had it signed by thirty-seven malefactors on one side of the gaol, and seven on the other. The girls' names had been struck out, he believed; but still it contained the signatures of many children. Such a practice was a gross abuse of the right of petition.

said, that this was the first time he had heard of that circumstance. If true, it was a most gross abuse of the right of petition, and one of the most impudent frauds ever attempted to be practised upon that House.

said, that hardly any thing had fallen from the hon. member for Bristol respecting the petition, with which he did not coincide. He believed that the petition spoke the sentiments of the city of Bristol; but the members for that city would allow him to remind them of a remark made by a former representative of Bristol. Mr. Burke had said, that the people were good judges as to whether the House of Commons were making themselves the tools of the court or the true servants of the people; but he added, that "with respect to the wisdom of political measures we have a very different criterion to judge by." He believed that the strong feeling which prevailed in Bristol and the west of England against the Catholic, claims might be explained by circumstances. He thought the origin of that feeling might be traced to the cruelties practised in that part of the country by the sanguinary instrument of a Catholic tyrant. In the north of England the feeling against the Catholics was not nearly so strong. He believed that the population of the country might be divided into three classes:—those who were in favour of emancipation, those who were against it, and those who were indifferent; and he believed that the last class would outnumber those who were opposed to it. It would be his duty, in the course of the evening, to present a petition from Halifax in favour of emancipation, signed by nine thousand persons; a number greater than signed the petition from the whole county of Cornwall against it.

said, he had been misunderstood, if it was supposed that he had made any comments on the conduct of the mayor of Bristol. He did not allude to him at all. He concurred with some hon. members in thinking, that it was wrong to criticise too nicely petitions which proceeded from large bodies of people. It mattered little whether some hundreds of fictitious signatures were mixed up with several thousands of real ones. He considered that the petition from Bristol fairly represented the feelings, if not the opinions, of the majority of the people of that city; but he also believed, that if any petitions were sent up from Sheffield, Leeds, or other large manufacturing towns, they would be of a different nature. He could not agree with the hon. member for Bristol, in thinking so tenderly of the signatures of children, and double signatures; because he considered the former inadequate, and the latter something very like a fraud.

presented a petition from the nobility, gentry, clergy, and other freeholders of the county and city of Limerick against emancipation.

denied that the petition could be considered as speaking the sense of the county which he represented. The persons who had signed it did not constitute one-third of the Protestant inhabitants; and in respect to property, they did not form more than one-tenth of the landed proprietors. He was convinced that many of those who were members of Brunswick clubs would not, in the present posture of affairs, lend themselves for the purpose of defeating conciliatory adjustment brought forward under the auspices of the noble duke at the head of the government, and the right hon. Secretary for the Home Department, in both of whom they placed the most unlimited confidence. He could state, from his knowledge of the opinions of a large number of those who composed the Brunswick clubs, that they had not, in the first instance, been formed from any feeling of hostility towards their Catholic fellow-subjects, but merely that their union might serve as a measure of what they considered necessary defence against the dangers of the Catholic Association. In confirmation of this, he might mention, that when a noble lord was solicited to accept the office of president of the Limerick Brunswick Club, he, with a frankness which always characterised him, expressly declined being considered as a member of any political club, with a view of resisting the wishes of his majesty's government, if they should think it expedient to introduce a measure for the conciliatory adjustment of the question, which he stated he had reason to believe was the intention of the noble duke at the head of the administration. With this reservation he consented to join the Brunswick club, who with cheers accepted him as their president on those terms. It was then, he considered, very difficult to believe that, after this disclaimer of hostility to their Catholic fellow-subjects, they would, after the Catholic Association was extinct, and in defiance of the wishes of their sovereign, use active hostility to defeat a measure recommended from the throne, by the unanimous advice of a cabinet in which they placed unbounded confidence. As to his own opinions with respect to the contemplated measure, he had no hesitation in declaring, that no measure or combination of measures that could be devised by the best friend of Ireland, could promote the peace and prosperity of that country more effectually than that would do; and he was convinced that it was calculated, above all other things, to consolidate the strength and power of the British empire.

said, that he had been instructed to support the prayer of the petition; and as the hon. member had alluded to a supposed alteration of opinions, in consequence of the measure about to be introduced into parliament, he might be allowed to state, that since the announcement of the intention to introduce that measure, he had received a letter from the secretary to the Limerick Brunswick club, requesting him to support the prayer of this petition to the best of his abilities.

expressed his firm belief that the sentiments of a large number of the members of the Brunswick club of Limerick were now favourable to the principle of concession.

said, that if such were the case, the House no doubt would have an opportunity of learning the fact from their petitions in favour of the intended measure. He could also state, that he also had received a letter from the secretary to that club, since that club, had become acquainted with the intentions of government, in which they expressed the same sentiments as before; or if there was any change, it was that those feelings had become stronger.

protested against the doctrine implied in the remark of the hon. member for Dublin, that those who were supposed to be in favour of a particular measure must petition in support of it. If they did petition, of course there could be no doubt of their sentiments; but if they did not, it would be extremely unfair to suppose that they were opposed to it. On the contrary, their not petitioning ought, in justice to be taken as a sign of their approval; on the old principle, that "silence gives consent."

presented a petition from sir Charles Waller, praying the House to turn its attention to the consideration of some provision for the poor of Ireland. The petitioner expressed a hope, that the time of the House would not be consumed by measures to promote the ambition of the Catholic aristocracy of Ireland, while their poor were neglected; but that some measure would be at the same time devised for the benefit of the poor. The hon. member added, that, for his own part, he could not pronounce whether the measure suggested by sir C. Waller would be for the benefit of Ireland or not; but whoever would take the trouble to read that gentleman's petition would see by it that he possessed a very benevolent heart.

said, he had two petitions to present from Maidstone. One from the minister and congregation of Providence Chapel, and the other from the Protestant inhabitants of Kingstown, in Maidstone. The signatures were numerous, and most respectable, and procured by going from house to house. He concurred most heartily with the sentiments the petitioners expressed. The petition was brought forward, in consequence of the petitioners being alarmed by the desertion of those whom they considered as guardians of the Protestant interest. They therefore prayed that parliament would not grant further concessions to the Roman Catholics, especially to admit them into that House. For himself, he was an advocate for toleration, and therefore was afraid of the intolerant spirit of the Roman Catholics prevailing in the essential part of the government of this country. Sixty Roman Catholic members might govern the House of Commons. He had rather have a Popish king than a Popish parliament, and therefore should resist the measure proposed by administration. He disapproved of the mode of bringing forward the measure after the king's Speech, which recommended it for the deliberation of parliament; but it was afterwards explained, that it was with the king's consent it was to be introduced. This he considered as unconstitutional. He should maintain his opinion, and support it by his vote, though it was to be called factious, base, or infamous. This, he thought, was more the language of the House of Stuart than the House of Brunswick. Whilst he continued to feel that the disabilities could not be removed without danger to the Protestant constitution, he should persevere.

said, that a large and respectable portion of the inhabitants of Maidstone were in favour of concession; but however much the constituents of his hon. colleague and himself might be divided on this question, he was convinced, that not very long after the proposed measure should have passed into a law, which he trusted would be the case in the course of a few weeks, he and his hon. colleague would meet them, and find them unanimous in agreeing, that all the dangers which they feared from concession were imaginary.

said, that if the petitioners had their wish, his hon. colleague would have an opportunity of meeting them sooner, perhaps, than he expected; for they expressed themselves in favour of a dissolution of parliament.

said:—I hold in my hand a petition from the citizens of York, resident in the town of Kingston-upon-Hull, praying that no further concessions may be granted to the Roman Catholics. I cannot do better than read the words in which the petition is couched: "The petitioners respectfully pray your honourable House to resist the attacks of the Roman Catholics, and to continue those safeguards by which our venerable constitution in church and state has been so long preserved, which blessings we have inherited from our ancestors, and wish to transmit unimpaired to our posterity." I concur; Sir, most cordially in the prayer of this petition. I entered this House with a resolution to support the establishment in church and state. I have always done so, and there has nothing happened yet to induce me to alter that opinion. I am sorry to differ on any subject from the government of my royal master; but I should act as a traitor to my constituents I should act as a traitor to my own conscience, if I did not oppose them on this. When I was first elected a member of parliament, I made a declaration to the effect, that it was my determination to support the government of my royal master, without caring who composed it, when it was acting for the welfare of the country, and to oppose it when my conscience told me that it was acting otherwise. I can appeal to the House and to the public at large, whether I have not always acted up to that declaration. I do not care for ministers. I do not mind who they are. The appointment of my royal master is enough for me. Whether they are Whigs or Tories, it's all one to me. While they act conscientiously I'll support them. While they act otherwise I'll oppose them. This has been my language always—this is my language now—I care not, I say, who the men are: the appointment of my royal master is good enough for me. Gentlemen may have different opinions, but I am come here to speak my mind. I do not care whether ministers are Whigs or Tories. I say so frankly; it's all the same to me [a laugh]. I am sorry gentlemen should smile; but I shall be glad if they have not occasion before long to weep for the consequences of what they ate doing. Perhaps they think that I entertain animosity to the Roman Catholics. I declare before God that I bear them no animosity. There are some of them whom I respect; but it is inconsistent with common sense, if common sense is to predominate, to let Roman Catholics legislate for a Protestant community. I like the present ministers well enough; but I regret to say that I cannot pull with them on this occasion. I say, that if they attempt to force this measure down our throats [a laugh]—I am sorry that my hon. friends opposite will not hear me.—I seldom open my mouth in this House, and I should not have opened it now, if I did not think the present to be an occasion on which all true Protestants should speak out. I ask you, Sir, whether, if I were silent, entertaining the sentiments which I entertain, I should not be acting as a traitor to my constituents, and also as a traitor to my own consience? [laughter] I am sorry that my hon. friends on the other side are uneasy at my remarks; but I regret still more that ministers should calmly and deliberately ask their royal master and mine to build up this stepping-stone to the scaffold with his own hands [a laugh, and cries of oh! oh!"]. I call on every true Protestant to support that sacred barrier which was cemented by the blood of our brave ancestors, for the protection of our invaluable constitution in church and state. Can this be forgot, I ask? Is there one man in this House, with the fear of God before his eyes, who can forget the days of his ancestors, who established that sacred barrier? I say that there is no true Protestant in this House who can sit quiet and allow it to be pulled down about his ears by Catholic legislators. I trust that the day will not dawn, when such ruin shall be accomplished. I trust that the hand of divine Providence will give the noble heart of my royal master fortitude to stem the malignant torrent, which is now so likely to swamp the state. I hope that it will open the eyes of his majesty's advisers, and cause them to pause a dozen times before they break down the sacred barrier cemented by the blood of our brave ancestors. Can that be forgot? God forbid [laughter]. I am very sorry that I should disturb the equanimity of the House, and I ought perhaps to apologize to the chairman for doing so; but I am a staunch and true Protestant. No man has a more rigid regard for the constitution in church and state, than I have; and, though I say it, there is not a more loyal subject on the face of the earth. I have always been so through life, I am so still, and I will continue to be so to the day of my death. If I thought that the measures which are to be proposed by government would be a remedy for the distresses of Ireland, I would coincide with the views of ministers; but I cannot think so. The measures are pregnant with mischief: they are a fund of mischief. I say that if they force them through the House, it will be establishing a fund of mischief, and not only a fund of mischief, but also a fund of jealousy; the fruits of which will be anarchy and confusion, and a stepping-stone to lead to the destruction of the country. I have every respect, I say, for the Roman Catholics; but if my own father were a Roman Catholic, I would not allow him to come here to legislate for a Protestant constitution. Sir, it cannot be; Protestant flesh and blood will not allow it. I hope that the arm of Providence will not allow it. I hope that he will endow the heart of my royal master with fortitude enough to stem the malignant torrent which is likely to swamp the state. There is no man in the House who feels more for the distress of Ireland than I do. There is no man who will come more cheerfully forward to relieve that distress; but I say that the remedy now proposed will not do it. If his majesty's government will bring forward any specific measure to ameliorate the condition of the poor of Ireland, I shall be proud to support it. I will join in the yoke, and endeavour to ascend the hill with them. I really believe that there is nothing more to be pitied than the lower orders of the population of Ireland. If the proper medicine be adhered to, I shall willingly support ministers in administering it. As to the remedy now proposed, I say that the cure is worse than the disease. What does all this come to? What does all this mean? The meaning is this—that the Catholics will get hold of the temporalities of the Protestant church, that is, the whole thing it means: that is the essence of it, and nothing else. I repeat, that is the essence of it, and I can only refer you, Sir, and every Protestant who hears me, to the speech of the leader of the Irish parliament on the very Wednesday before the meeting of our parliament. Yes, Sir, let me call the attention of parliament to the declaration of the great O'Connell, the leader of the Irish parliament, or whatever else you please to call it. On the very Wednesday before the meeting of parliament he delivered a speech. I read it, Sir, and I read it with dismay. Not that I mean to find fault with O'Connell. No, he acts as I like; for he acts plainly, openly, and manfully. I wish to God we had some O'Connells on our side of the House [roars of laughter]. Yes, he's the man: he does not go about the bush, and about the bush: no, he speaks plump out: he dares you manfully to your face. He tells you, when he passes within that bar, he'll mow down all the temporalities of the Protestant church. What will the bishops say to that? I refer the bishops, and all the priests in the country, to this speech, addressed to the Irish parliament by this leading orator. When a man has this speech before his eyes, can he say that he is deceived? This is plain speaking at any rate. By God, Sir—[slapping the petition with great violence on the bench before him]—by God, Sir, O'Connell is one of the finest fellows I ever met with. He's no assassin. He does not skulk behind the curtain, to stab you to the heart in the dark. He does not dissemble what he would be at. No: he is the man for my money; for he tells us that he never will rest contented, until he has mown down the temporalities of the Protestant church. If we let him into parliament, we shall be "robbing Peter to pay Paul," with a vengeance. I say that giving up the rights of the Protestant church to the Catholic church, is nothing less than "robbing Peter to pay Paul.' Is it likely, I ask, to remedy the distress of the poor of Ireland? I tell the poor of Ireland that it is not. I tell them that they are misled and deceived, if they sup pose it will. They will find themselves in the same predicament, in the same cottages, in the same hovels, after the Papists have got all that they want, that they are in at present. I trust that the government, and I tell it to the noble duke who is at the head of my royal master's government, yes, I trust yet in God, and I hope that I shall not be deceived, that if the noble duke shall persist in his determination to pull down with one hand the sacred barrier cemented by the blood of our brave ancestors, for the protection of the Protestant constitution in church and state, he will determine to establish with the other (and I think that he has some glimmering idea of it) some security for the future preservation of that constitution. I will not speak positively as to the measure which is to be brought forward, until the curtain is hauled up, and I see the new light which has burst in upon ministers. As for myself, I must say that I have not got any of the new light [laughter]. I shall say little more. All I have to say is this one sentence more. The Protestant community is now at last roused: the British lion is growling and grumbling. When he is once roused, let those who have roused him beware [roars of laughter]. I am glad to find that my hon. opponents, who call themselves the friends of liberal principles, are obliged to resort to such baseness of opposition as this. I never have hindered them from delivering their sentiments in quiet to the House. What right have they to interrupt me? If they think to put me down by their outrageous conduct, they mistake their man. It would ill become me, as the representative of the second city in the kingdom, to allow myself to be curbed from delivering my sentiments. It has not been my intention to hurt the feelings of any man in the House, and I therefore hope that I shall be permitted to express my sentiments without interruption, as I honestly and conscientiously entertain them. There is no other question but this on which I shall fly in the face of the government of my royal master's appointment. I have been a staunch Protestant all my life. I was born and bred a Protestant. I hope to die a Protestant; and therefore, on a question so vital to all true Protestants, I hope my opponents will forgive me for honestly and manfully declaring my opinions. I am sorry to say that the great supporter, the main champion, of the Protestant cause in this House, has been and now is bewildered. There is no doubt that he has some conscientious feeling [laughter]. He showed that he had, when he separated himself from the late Mr. Canning;—a minister whose loss I deeply regret, though he was against us on the great question. Yes; Mr. Canning was what I call a treasure to his country [laughter]. Sir, I will not hide my sentiments. I will not go, as some do, beating about the bush, but never entering the bush. I will say without any reserve, that Mr. Canning was really what I call a great man. It was in consequence of the great Protestant leader deserting that really great man, on account of their difference of opinion on this question, that we placed our confidence in him; and what astonished us, the Protestants of the country, was, that he, the great Protestant leader—but I will not proceed, for he is not here to defend himself, and I wish to act with kindness by him. This, however, I will say, that if the right hon. gentleman had taken and knocked me flat down in the centre of the floor of this House, I should not have been more astonished than I was upon hearing the speech which he delivered on the first night of this session. That is the homespun fact, and I care not who likes it; for I say that the country is now roused. It was bewildered before; it was thunderstruck at the sudden change in the councils of government; but it is now, thanks to Providence, roused, and roused from one end of it to the other. That table, which will ere long be loaded with petitions, will show you the voice of the people: that table will tell you that the people are now roused [loud laughter, in the midst of which an hon. member, who sat behind colonel Wilson, took hold of the skirts of his coat, and endeavoured to pull him down. The gallant officer turned round to him and proceeded]. I beg the hon. gentleman's pardon, but I must proceed. I am under the necessity of expressing my sentiments, and I cannot conceal them without acting as a traitor to my constituents and to my own conscience. I seldom speak in the House; I listen with pleasure to others; and now that I am speaking, I ought not to be interrupted. One sentence more, and I have done. The great Protestant community expect that at this momentous crisis every representative of the peopel should "do his duty." Whatever may be the conduct of others, I will do mine, without either fee or reward.

"Whilst I can handle stick or stone,

"I will support the Church and Throne."

presented a petition from six hundred inhabitants of the town of Reading, praying that no further concessions be granted to the Roman Catholics.

trusted that the House would permit him to say a few words on the presentation of this petition. He could not but congratulate the friends of religious liberty on the great progress which this question had recently made in the town and vicinity of Reading. This was proved by the paucity of signatures attached to the present petition. Although the movers and promoters of it had left it for a fortnight in the most public places in the town, and had used all their endeavours to get it numeruosly signed, by advertising for signatures in the newspapers, they had not been able to obtain, out of the numerous population in that town and neighbourhood, more than six hundred signatures. In opposition to the prayer of that petition he could say, that a great majority of the most influential persons in that district were—he would not say in favour of Catholic emancipation, but, in favour of leaving the whole question to the exclusive consideration of parliament. As he was now on his legs, he would venture to pay the humble tribute of his applause, to his majesty's ministers, for their determination to make this a government question; and he hoped, that as they had undertaken the management of it, they would settle it permanently, by doing justice and acting liberally towards their Catholic fellow-countrymen.

observed, that although the petition purported to be from the town of Reading, it was, in fact, that of the farmers coming to market from the vicinity. He assured the House that the opinions of the people of Reading, had undergone a great change within a few years, upon this subject.

said, it would be in the recollection of many hon. gentlemen, that, in the course of the last session, he had presented a petition from a society, calling itself a "Society for the Improvement of Ireland," a petition which, from the ample statistical knowledge which it contained as to the state of Ire land, the sympathy which it expressed for the sufferings of the unemployed population of Ireland, and still more the remedies which it proposed to apply to the distress of that suffering population, was well worthy of the attention which it received. That petition stated a melancholy fact, which entitled it to the consideration of every thinking man; namely, that there was a vast unemployed population in Ireland, which could find no object to which its labour could be beneficially applied. Such a statement must go to the heart of every feeling man; for it carried with it proof of the existence, in that country, of great and complicated misery; and it addressed itself particularly to the mind of every thinking statesman; for it made them feel that, where there was a population permanently unemployed, without one object to which it could turn its hands or devote its mind, it would not be idle, that if it were not doing good, it would be doing evil, and that it was therefore in a state adverse to the growth of virtue, and very different from that in which a representative of the people would wish the people to remain. The condition of the suffering population of Ireland was past any description of his, and almost past endurance. He would not endeavour to describe that of which any description must fall short: he would only desire hon. members not to conceive any thing of the condition of the poor in Ireland from what they knew of the condition of the poor in England. Undoubtedly those members of the lower classes who were bred in this country to labour, were subject to all the inconveniences of a toilsome existence: they were not, however, without the necessaries, nor without even some of the comforts of life. If these, by any of the accidents of fortune, failed them, they had their national charities to which they could apply. But in Ireland it was not so. The poor were there in a state of society many degrees below the level of the people of England, both in food, in clothing, in raiment, and in all the other circumstances for which a people was appreciated. He believed that in no part of the wide world was such complicated suffering borne with such exemplary patience as it was in Ireland. This statement was not to be taken upon his authority alone: it was clearly made out by different reports, which had emanated from different committees of that House. The committee which had sat on the subject of emigration, had stated in their report, that millions rose daily in Ireland, without knowing to what object they were to direct their labour during the day. Every year there were vast immigrations of Irish paupers into this country, induced to come hither by the prospect of obtaining better wages than at home. If employment were not given to Irishmen at home, their appearance here would soon tend to the injury and demoralization of England. It was impossible that there should exist a considerable difference in the rate of wages obtainable in two neighbouring countries, without a tendency to an approximation. Here the average rate of wages might be taken at 2s., while in Ireland it did not exceed 4d. per head. Sooner or later, if matters were allowed to proceed as at present, a most disastrous level of wages would be adopted, to the ruin of the labourers and manufacturers of this country. He called upon all who heard him to use their best exertions to put a stop to the growing evil. The remedy, he conceived, was easy. If they had millions of unemployed men in Ireland, they had also millions of acres of waste ground, capable of profitable cultivation. Ten or fifteen years ago, a commission, assisted by able engineers, was appointed, for the purpose of inquiring into the nature and extent of the Bogs of Ireland, and the possibility of reclaiming them. The result of their inquiries was, that there was upwards of six millions of acres of Waste Lands in that country, capable of reclamation at a comparative small expense. Owing to the want of a legal remedy to get rid of some natural difficulties, these lands remained altogether uncultivated, and not one step had been taken to reclaim them. Why not endeavour, by employing the distressed population, to contribute to the redemption of these lands? The fact was, that what was everybody's business was nobody's, and men would not undertake improvements by which other individuals, in common with themselves, must be benefitted, without adequate remuneration. Things went on from bad to worse; people were left to perish by starvation; so that it might be said of Ireland, it was a country in which the life of the labouring population was considerably abridged in its duration, by the every-day sufferings, penury, and inadequately-rewarded labours to which they were subjected. He was anxious to obtain leave to bring in such a bill as would remedy some of the evils complained of, by causing the drainage of the Bogs of Ireland. A court or commission might be appointed for this purpose, tinder the authority of the bill. The members of it should have it in charge to remove those bars or impediments in streams and rivers, which prevented effectual drainage; and they should also be authorized to charge with a portion of the expense of such improvements, the individuals who were to receive benefit from them, according to the advantage which they would derive. He proposed that a certain number of gentlemen, say twenty—should constitute a commission, for the purpose of examining where works of the nature alluded to could be advantageously undertaken. This commission should propose such works as might be considered necessary, and authorize applications for bills to enforce the improvements. Public drains were as necessary as public roads. Such works as he had alluded to, should not be suspended by reason of any private difficulties. He would have them undertaken by the authority of the commissioners. If persons sustained damage in consequence of these works, they should be compensated: if, on the contrary, they were benefitted, they should contribute towards the cost. This was shortly the nature of the measure which he wished to be allowed to bring in, for Draining the Bogs of Ireland. He hoped for the assistance of the House in his endeavour to complete it. Attempts had been made for the accomplishment of this object which did not succeed; but he was desirous of seeing whether the energies of the Irish people could not be made applicable to reclaiming the Waste Lands of that country, in order that those immense tracts and the labouring population might both be improved together, and no longer remain neglected and abandoned. The hon. member concluded by moving, "That leave be given to bring in a bill to facilitate the Drainage of Bogs, and for the improvement of Waste Lands in Ireland."

seconded the motion. He said, he felt great interest in every thing that tended to the improvement of Ireland. He had lately visited that country, particularly the county represented by his hon. friend, and he had there an opportunity of witnessing upon the estate of his hon. friend, the great improvement which had been effected by the application of skill and capital to the reclamation of Waste Lands. He did not believe that the surface of this country presented a more remarkable instance of the success with which science had been attended in reclaiming lands inundated with water. He entertained no doubt, that there was not a Bog in Ireland which, with a little expenditure of capital, and under treatment as skilful and scientific, might not be reclaimed with equal advantage to the projector.

said, he was one of the commissioners engaged in the survey and inquiry relative to the Irish Bogs, and fully agreed with the hon. mover as to the advantage that would be derived from reclaiming them, and the certain return that their improvement, if it could be carried into effect, would afford to individual capital. Under the commission appointed some years ago ten engineers were employed, who all came to the same conclusion, that if a sum, from one pound to twenty pound per acre, was expended on the Bogs of Ireland it would produce a profit of fifteen per cent. There was a great prospect of success, therefore; but, nevertheless, he feared that the bill now proposed would not he found effectual for the object which the hon. member had in view. Judging from his speech of last year, the hon. member was endeavouring to consolidate the different provisions adopted in this country for the reclaiming of fens, marshes, and waste lands; but English fens and Irish bogs were so different, that any mode adopted for the improvement of the one was not likely to succeed with the other. The Irish bogs were from one to four hundred feet above the level of the sea, and afforded every facility for drainage; so that the machinery and engineering exertions necessary for draining the English marshes were not necessary, and a great outlay of capital was not called for. The commission which the hon. member proposed to appoint would have little to do in the removal of bars, or providing a free vent for the waters by engineering operations. He would state the circumstances that kept the Bogs of Ireland in their present state. Those Bogs belonged to the proprietors of the contiguous estates, the boundaries of which were supposed to exist somewhere in the central parts of the Bogs; but these imaginary boundaries having never been defined, there would be great difficulty in fixing them, and as signing to the proprietors of the fee-simple their proper share of bog. That was the first obstacle to the improvement of the bogs; but it was a difficulty which might be got over. There was another of a more serious nature, involving a question, not between the proprietors of the fee-simple, but between the respective landlords and their own tenants. Each farmer had a right to turn a number of cattle into the bog, there to obtain a scanty pasturage in the summer months, at the risk of being lost. If any of the proprietors of the soil attempted to reclaim a portion of bog, the tenant's right of pasture would be set up against him, to prevent him from carrying his intention into effect. The shortness of the tenant's time, his small interests in his farm, prevented him from undertaking such improvements himself, and his claim of pasturage on the bog stood in the way of any similar attempt on the part of the landlord. If, without resorting to large drains and embankments, they endeavoured to ascertain the boundaries of estates, and gave an allotment of a certain portion of bog to each tenant, in lieu of the right of common, the principle difficulty would be removed. In order to effect this division, he would appoint, not twenty country gentlemen, but two intelligent engineers, totally unconnected with the country. Let any proprietor who wished to improve bog call upon all the other neighbouring proprietors to put in their claims to their share of bog before the engineers, who should mark out the boundaries of each estate, and determine the allotments to be made to particular tenants. Let the proprietors go to work on the residue; and let their respective portions be marked out by moderately-sized drains, of which the expense, in the first instance, might be defrayed by government, and afterwards by the county; which would soon repay the outlay, by the increased value of the land and the rates payable upon it. Having made that division, he would leave it to private adventure to do the rest.

thought that some of the difficulties described by the hon. member for Louth might be removed by the appointment of a committee, which would enable gentlemen who were acquainted with the subject to convey much useful information, calculated to promote the object proposed by the hon. member for Armagh, the utility of which every one must admit.

said, he would rather refer the subject to a limited number of surveyors than to a number of gentlemen, who, in all probability, would not trouble themselves about it.

said, the House and the country were much indebted to the hon. member for Armagh, for bringing forward a subject to which it was impossible to give the most cursory attention without seeing the great advantage that would be derived from accomplishing the object in view; namely, the drainage of the Bogs of Ireland. Perhaps the more eligible mode of proceeding would be by means of a committee; which, if appointed, he trusted would be able to devise some measure calculated to attain the desired end.

observed, that if a committee were appointed to take the subject into consideration, they would have to wait a considerable time before any thing effectual could be done. Let the hon. member bring in a bill, and when read a second time, let the matter be referred to a committee up stairs. He hoped the hon. member for Louth would lend his valuable assistance to the inquiry. Ten years had elapsed since the subject was investigated at the public expense, yet nothing had been done. After the expense of a survey and commission, it was now left to an individual to bring the matter before parliament.

said, that none of the commissioners had received any remuneration.

said, that the great evil of Ireland consisted in its overpopulousness; in other words, there were a greater number of persons to be employed than there was employment for. Taking the inhabitants to be over-crowded in their present space, the first effect of a measure such as that proposed by the hon. member would be, to relieve the over-population, by placing it on the waste parts when reclaimed; and thus both parts of the country, the old and the new lands, would be relieved. He had no doubt that good would result from the measure, but he thought it rather doubtful whether it would effect all the beneficial results contemplated by its authors.

feared that, as yet, the matter was not ripe for legislation. He should wish the subject to be referred, with all its detail, to a committee above stairs, where he believed there would neither be wanting ability nor inclination to investigate it, so as to furnish the House with materials upon which it might safely legislate.

in reply, said, that the principal difficulty in effecting this object, would be found to arise from the complication of titles to the different portions of the bogs to be drained. This was not an insuperable difficulty however; and he proposed only to press the bill to a second reading, for the purpose of sending it to a committee above stairs.

Leave was given to bring in the bill.

prefaced the motion of which he had given notice, by reviewing the changes which had taken place in the minds of some highly distinguished men, in that and the other House, upon the important question of political concession to the Roman Catholics of Ireland. He was, he confessed, surprised at the revolution in opinion which had taken place in some of the leading politicians within the last two years. Nor could he devise why they should see reasons in 1829, for concessions which they might not have discovered in 1827. This it was for the lately Anti-Catholic part of the present ministry to reconcile. He could not observe, without pain, that there existed a disposition in too many quarters to adopt the insidious recommendation of a neutrality. On this question he felt it his duty to avow, that he thought no man ought to be influenced by such a recommendation. It was selfish, cold, and heartless. Any person who could refuse to extend relief to a class of his fellow-citizens suffering under unjust privation and galling distractions, was unworthy of the blessings which he himself enjoyed under our excellent constitution. On the other hand, the individual who could assent irreverently to approach the edifice of the constitution, and remove part of that august fabric, or assist in its dilapidation, or even rob it of the appropriate ornaments with which it had been decorated by the pious reverence of our ancestors, was unworthy to be ranked amongst their descendants, and ought to have been born in those more southern countries of Europe, where the inhabitants groaned under the fatal influence of tyranny, bigotry, and superstition. This was no case for apathy or indifference. But he had to complain, that there had been too much of both displayed, at least by one of the great political parties in the state; and this had proved the parent of a system of misrepresentation which he thought might have a dangerous influence on the great question of concession to the Catholic body. The fact was, their table groaned with petitions, Catholic or Anti-Catholic, which were almost always said to be numerously signed, whether the signatures were from villages or cities—whether they were twenty-five in number or twenty-five thousand. Now, it was highly desirable, ere the great crisis approached, that the sense of the country should be fairly collected relative to these petitions. The subject of emancipation was one which naturally might be expected to call forth the splendid talents of its zealous and long-tried advocates. A petition in favour of our Catholic fellow-subjects was always considered an appropriate opportunity for a display of ardent advocacy of their cause: but a Protestant petition, as it was called, was a candid statement of facts, and contained no extrinsic matter, about which the meteor light of eloquence might play with corresponding effect. It asserted ancient principles, and solicited protection. Numerically speaking, however, these were far more numerous than the other; they being seven hundred and twenty, whilst those in favour of the meditated concession were two hundred and twenty in number, leaving a numerical majority in favour of the former of five hundred. The latter, it should be remarked, included all those of the Catholics; and yet it was not unusual in that House to hear it roundly asserted, that the feeling of the public was in favour of the principle of concession. It was with a view to this subject that he wished a reference should in future be made, by weekly returns to the House, of the number of petitions presented of either class, describing the number of signatures annexed to each petition, so as to enable the House to collect, as from a balance-sheet, the real sentiments of the nation upon this very important subject. It was true, perhaps, that this would not give to the Protestant petitioners the 'vantage ground which, through their culpable remissness, they had lost; but it would, at least, place in their hands again the constitutional weapon of petition, and enable them, in the last resort, to save themselves from a tame and disgraceful surrender. He moved, therefore, "that a weekly return be laid on the table of this House, containing the names of all places in Great Britain from which Petitions for or against Roman Catholics are forwarded to the House; and stating the number of signatures to each Petition, and the amount of the population of such places according to the last census; and that the first list shall include the petitions already presented."

said, he would address himself to the motion before the House rather than to the speech of the hon. member, on which there would be abundance of opportunities, on a future occasion, to comment, as well as to vindicate himself against the charge of intimidation, from which the hon. member wished to rescue the administration by the intimidation of his motion. His objection to the motion was, that it was a deviation from the uniform practice of the House. He did not think that the number of the signatures to a petition formed the best criterion of the value of the opinions expressed in it, or of the general sense of the country. Gentlemen who had experience in these matters, were aware of the manner in which petitions were got up, in particular places for particular purposes; and, with every respect for the sentiments of the persons who had been connected with such transactions, he should state, that many instances occurred where parties had signed petitions, with the subject of which they could not be cognisant. Of what use were knowledge and information, if they did not tell in the value of opinions, and if we were to hold the sentiments of men of no information in the same degree of estimation, as those of persons who had enlightened their minds upon the subject on which they were to give their judgments? But the test which the hon. member proposed would have the effect of depriving his own petitions of the weight to which they might be otherwise entitled. His proposition was, to set down in one column the number of the petitioners, and in an opposite column the whole number of the population of the place. But if, for instance, he was to take a petition from the congregation of a Methodist chapel, which was situated in a district containing a population of forty thousand persons, the comparison which would be of necessity made upon such an occasion would have the effect of depriving the petition of the respect to which it would be otherwise entitled. Another instance which he should mention was that of a petition which had been presented to the House from an individual named John Joseph Stockdale, who was described as of the Opera-colonnade and parish of St. James, and who had prayed that the House would not make any concession of political power to the Roman Catholics. He did not mean to say any thing about the value of the sentiments of this petitioner, but let the House see how totally Mr. John Joseph Stockdale would be destroyed if the proposition of the hon. member should be acceded to. Mr. John Joseph Stockdale would be a figure of one in opposition to sixty thousand persons who composed the population of the parish of St. James. By this plan, if carried into effect, the petitions of the clergy would be deprived of that weight to which he should always consider them entitled, from the learning and piety of the parties from whom they proceeded. His objections to the proposed motion were, that the number of signatures was not a proper criterion of the sense of the country, and that, if the rule should be admitted in this case, the House could scarcely refuse to grant a similar motion in every other case, and, to admit it as a general rule would lead to the greatest inconvenience. Under these circumstances he felt it his duty to move the previous question.

said, he agreed with his right hon. friend, that the motion, if agreed to, would lead to much inconvenience as a general rule, and produce no advantage in his particular case. But, as to the opinion expressed by his right hon. friend, he should recommend him to abstain from giving expression to such opinions, as that the question which was soon to come before the House was one on which no man was competent to form a judgment, except the aristocratical portion of the community, and what was called men of talent. His right hon. friend would find that the mass of the people of England were now more generally educated than formerly; and if his right hon. friend and his colleagues should not pay due attention to the objections which had been made, and which would be made, by the people of England upon the subject, it might lead to consequences of the most tremendous description. The hon. member here read an extract from a speech made by the late Mr. Canning upon the subject, in which the right hon. gentleman had stated, that "this question ought never to be made a government question, and that it never could prosper unless it should finally work its way through the legislature and the country; and that there was a great mass of inert resistance to it in the minds of the people of England." This speech had been made not long ago, and Mr. Canning added upon that occasion, that the inert I mass of which he then spoke might be very fearfully excited, if any attempt were made to force on the question. These words had at the time made a deep impression upon his mind, which had been increased by succeeding events. He hoped the prediction of Mr. Canning would not be fulfilled; but, if he had understood him rightly, he had intimated, that any attempt, such as was now about to be made, would produce greater evils than a divided cabinet or an unmanageable House of Commons, or any of the other dangers which had been stated in justification of the course which was about to be adopted.

in reply, observed, that he had brought forward his motion because some hon. members had forgotten the pledges they had made on the hustings, and he wished to show them, that though they had changed, their constituents had not. He should give a proof of his readiness to give way to the opinions of others by not pressing his motion.

The motion was then withdrawn.

expressed his approbation of the manner in which the right hon. gentleman had acceded to the proposition which he had thought it his duty to make during the last session.

The resolutions were agreed to.