presented petitions from several Unitarian and Dissenting Congregations in Norwich, and other places, in favour of Catholic Emancipation. The hon. member observed, that it could not be said that these petitions proceeded from interested motives. The petitioners had themselves experienced a relief from the disabilities under which they once laboured, and they prayed that their Catholic fellow-subjects might share equally the benefits of the constitution. The hon. member then proceeded to point out the absurdity of those who entertained fears for the safety of the constitution or the established church, from the admission of Roman Catholics to equal eligibility. Alluding to the means which had been used to work on the minds of the people, he called the attention of the House to a publication, in which he had seen with astonishment and indignation these words—"A great body of our degraded senators," alluding, no doubt, to the majority who had voted in that House, "are prepared to sacrifice, at the shrine of treason and rebellion, that constitution which our forefathers had shed their blood to obtain." He did not mention this with the view of calling down any punishment on those by whom such a vile calumny was uttered; for no doubt the venders of these things acted with a desire to profit; but be their authors who they might, they showed the animus by which they were actuated. He had no wish that the publishers of such libels should be raised from their present insignificance by any prosecution: he only stated the fact, to show how the ignorance of the multitude was worked upon.

said, he had a petition to present, for a similar object, from a large portion of the liberal and educated Protestant inhabitants of the city of Bath. It was not the intention of those inhabitants to present any petition to the House on this subject, but finding that great exertions were made to delude their fellow-citizens, they felt it their duty to come to the House, and to pray that it would go forward with the measure which had been graciously recommended from the throne, and grant their Catholic fellow-subjects that relief which they firmly believed would consolidate the strength and resources of the empire. The petitioners stated, that it having been said, that the county of Somerset was to a man opposed to the principle of concession, they felt it their duty to declare that such an assertion was without foundation. The petition was signed by nine clergymen of the established church, by all the dissenting ministers, by four members of the corporation, by forty officers of the army and navy, by five of the trustees of the literary institution, by all the committee of that body who were in town, by two hundred householders living on their own property, and by one hundred persons engaged in trade in the city, making in all nearly four hundred persons. He had shown the petition to his hon. friend, the member for Somersetshire, who assured him, that many of the parties had heretofore signed petitions against concession, but had changed their minds, and taken the same view of it which the hon. baronet had had the manliness to avow.

said, he was glad that the petition had been confided to his hon. friend, for it could not have been placed in better hands. He had stated, on a former evening, that a great change had taken place in the opinions of many persons in Somersetshire on this question, and the petition was a proof of it, A great alteration had taken place in men's minds on the subject since the recommendation from the throne; and he had no doubt that the time was fast approaching, when those of his constituents, who were now opposed to concession, would admit that the measures before the House were necessary to secure the peace and prosperity of the country.

said, he had several petitions to present against Catholic emancipation. The first was from the lord-mayor, aldermen, and corporation of the city of Dublin. He could not present this petition without mentioning that this corporation had been long distinguished for its loyalty, and that its suggestions were on that account, worthy of peculiar consideration. The petitioners stated their alarm at the measures introduced by ministers, to destroy the Protestant institutions in church and state, and to shake the foundation on which the title of the House of Brunswick rested to the throne of these realms. They likewise stated that they were not actuated by, and did not participate in, the feeling of fear and intimidation to which they ascribed the origin and progress of these measures, feeling that there was in the native energy of the Protestants of Ireland sufficient power and influence, not only to check, but to control and repress all the efforts of the disaffected. They represented, that when ministers professed that it was necessary to reform the constitution in order to meet the evils now existing in Ireland, they did not try any new experiment. They stated their conviction that other remedies might have been applied to the disease, and that those now proposed to be applied would only create a further aggravation of it. They expressed their alarm at seeing the measure proposed by government. The other petition came from the warden and Corporation of the guild of merchants in Dublin. It prayed not only that no further concessions should be made to the Roman Catholics, but that the elective franchise should be so regulated as not to throw political influence into the hands of their priests; it likewise prayed that the House would put down the Jesuits, and every other monastic establishment in the British empire.

said, he would take that opportunity of making a few observations on the degree of weight which ought to be attached to the petitions which had just been presented in such numbers by his hon. and learned friend. He would also announce to the House other petitions, which were in the course of being presented to it, with a contrary prayer on the same subject, and would thus place it in a condition to decide to which of the petitions the greatest weight was due. As a citizen of Dublin, it was not for him to question the loyalty of the lord-mayor and corporation of that city. Ever since the time of James 1st they had been considered a most loyal corporation. He trusted that they would continue unshaken in their loyalty; and that their good sense would lead them to acquiesce in whatever measures parliament should sanction; and if it did, he had no doubt but that he should hear his hon. and learned friend, in the next session describe the joy with which they hailed the beneficial effects of the measures which they now considered as dangerous and destructive. When he heard his hon. and learned friend tell the House, that he was presenting a petition from the corporation of Dublin, and that the lord-mayor of that loyal corporation was not intimidated by the existing state of things in Ireland, he was reminded of another lord-mayor, who being out a hunting, and starting a hare, exclaimed, "I'm not afraid." "What cause, I would ask," said the hon. member, "is there for the lord-mayor of Dublin, to be afraid? What are we going to do? We are going to place on a satisfactory basis the peace of the city of Dublin, and along with the peace of the city of Dublin, the peace of the whole empire." He had heard much of late of the general right of the people to petition, but why he had heard so much of it of late he could scarcely tell; for he had never heard the right questioned. He had likewise heard much of the respect which ought to be paid to the petitions of individuals. He acquiesced sincerely in that doctrine; but if those who propounded it meant that equal respect was to be attached to all petitions, and that we were not to consider the different bodies from which they came, he begged to dissent entirely from them. We should not treat petitions with greater respect than that with which we treated one another; and it was well known that, though we were all equal in that House, we gave to the opinions of the same men different weight upon different subjects. In like manner, whoever wished to give due weight to the petitions of the people, would refer to the means and ability of the petitioners to obtain information, and to the honesty and integrity of the motives by which they were influenced. What, then became of the petitions of the saddlers and bricklayers, and plasterers, and barbers, which his hon. and learned friend had brought forward, he would not say with pomp, but with abundance of theatrical dexterity? What did they prove? They proved the existence of the disordered state of society which the House was so anxious to cure; they proved that passion and prejudice abounded among those from whom they came; and, sorry was he to say, that passion and prejudice abounded on this subject, not only in Iceland but also in this country to a great extent. He guessed that this was the case in England from the number of petitions which had been presented against concession, and from the rapidity with which gentlemen declared that those petitions acquired b signatures. It was only the other night that an hon. member, in presenting a petition from his constituents, had declared that they were so eager to show their aversion to the contemplated measures of government, that they had affixed to it thirty signatures in the course of a minute; in short, that they had been sailing at the rate of nine knots an hour, till they reached the end of their parchment. Did not that circumstance prove that a great excitement was abroad, and that the more rapidly our measures proceeded to allay it, the greater service we should confer upon the country? He imputed no improper motives to the petitioners. He had no doubt that they entertained their prejudices conscientiously; but he had as little doubt that they were only the echo of feelings existing in that House. He honoured and respected the manner in which the petitioners put forward their views; but he could not help observing, that he had heard but little of the arguments by which they supported them. Even his hon. and learned friend, the member for Dublin, with all his ingenuity, had not favoured them with any thing in the shape of argument. Night after night had his hon. and learned friend dinned into their ears the year 1688: it was his everlasting cry. He had left the House for a short time one evening, and the last words he had heard on the lips of his hon. and learned friend were "1688." He came back, expecting to find that at the end of that time his hon. and learned friend had got at least a century in advance. But no, he had not stirred from his darling "1688." It still sounded on his tongue; the year "1688" formed the beginning, middle, and end of every speech of his hon. and learned friend. He had heard the hon. member for Gloucester proceed in a similar strain: he had seen him describe a petition with a spirit of gravity which circumstances rendered perfectly ludicrous. "This petition," said the hon. member, "is entitled to peculiar respect—it is not liable to any objection—it has not been signed by any women—it has not been hawked about from house to house—it has not been signed by any youth under eighteen,"—nor, he ought to have added, by any old woman of eighty; for then the petition would have been quite perfect. But, he would ask, were all youths above eighteen years of age qualified to give an opinion upon this irritating, perplexing, and complicated question? If the difficulties of this question were such as had been represented growing out of the construction of acts of parliament, did his hon. and learned friend mean to contend that the plasterers, and bricklayers, and barbers of Dublin, or even the lord-mayor of Dublin himself, were persons properly qualified to understand them? But his hon. and learned friend objected to these measures, because they were, he said, an infraction of the Protestant settlement in church and state, obtained by the Revolution of 1688, and he backed his opinion upon this point with the authority, the learned authority, of the lord-mayor of Dublin. He had told his hon. and learned friend, that he had listened with great attention, not only to his arguments on that point, but to those of all the hon. members who had debated this question. He had heard many of them, and such of them as he had not heard he had read with great care; and the calm conclusion at which, after all his study, he had arrived was, that the settlement of this question on the terms now proposed, was no infraction of the constitution as settled in his hon. and learned friend's favourite year of 1688. He did not set an overweening value upon his own opinion: coming from him individually, it might have little or no weight; but it was good for this, that it was backed by all the great constitutional characters who had sat for the last five-and-twenty years in that House. He did not wish to speak harshly of his hon. and learned friend; he felt for him a respect which his hon. and learned friend well knew was not likely to be diminished by any difference of opinion which might exist be- tween them on this question. He really believed that that difference arose from this circumstance—that his hon. and learned friend would never allow his excellent understanding calmly to deliberate on this question. Circumstances had given to his hon. and learned friend's mind a bias which he could not control; and he had no doubt that his hon. and learned friend would soon inform them that this was a question on which he entertained no doubt—on which he felt no difficulty. It was because he had never entertained doubt, and never felt difficulty, that his hon. and learned friend had taken his station among the friends of exclusion. If he had ever entertained doubts—if he had ever felt difficulties—he would have inquired deeply into the subject, and instead of backing himself on points of law, by the opinions of plasterers, bricklayers, and barbers, he would have ranked himself with those able and enlightened persons whose petition it would be his duty to present soon to the House. It appeared from his hon. and learned friend's speech, that the great difficulty in the way of the proposed adjustment of the Catholic claims, arose out of the suggestion of the plasterers and barbers of Dublin—that by agreeing to it we were infringing on the Protestant constitution, as settled in the year 1688. Now if it were suggested to any gentleman who was going to make a change in the settlement of his estate, that such a settlement was a violation of the laws, would that gentleman go to the lord-mayor of Dublin, or to the population in the dock-yards, or to the farmers and graziers of Sussex, and consult them as to the correctness of the suggestion? If he were perplexed with the doubts suggested to him, he would soon discover that there were none to whom he could so well apply for a solution of them, as those who had looked into the law, and were, from their habits, well, acquainted with all its intricacies. By parity of reasoning, he thought that the doubts of any reasonable man, as to whether this adjustment was in opposition to the principles of the Revolution of 1688, might be satisfied by the reflection, that three hundred and twenty-seven members of the English bar, who were accustomed to consider the meaning of acts of parliament, and who were without any influence to warp their judgment, had petitioned the House in favour of it. They were of opinion, that it would not make any in- fringement on the constitution; and, in their opinion, a large proportion of the barristers of Ireland concurred. He now gave notice, that he should have the honour of presenting, on Monday next, a petition in favour of Catholic emancipation, signed by a hundred Protestant members of the Irish bar. He should also have the honour of presenting a petition, with the same prayer, from sixty-seven Roman Catholic barristers of Ireland. He might be asked, why he had not mentioned this sooner? Because the Roman Catholic barristers had a direct interest in the adjustment of the question. The Protestant barristers, were they to measure their own monopoly, had also a direct interest the other way; and yet, to their eternal credit be it spoken, they had come forward, and a hundred of them had signed a petition, praying parliament to make a final and conciliatory adjustment of this question. Did these three petitions give no support to the opinions of those who said, that in point of law, what we now meditated to do for Ireland was no infringement of our Protestant constitution? It appeared to him, that the petition which he had to present was extremely valuable in another respect. He did not wish to disparage the petitions which his hon. and learned friend had presented; yet he must say, that, looking at the petitions of the barristers of Ireland and their one hundred and sixty-seven signatures, they were entitled to at least as much respect as the petitions of the lord-mayor and corporation of Dublin, and of the plasterers, bricklayers, and barbers, who followed in their train. They were well acquainted with the state of society in Ireland. They were taught by their practical experience in the courts, and on the circuits, that the social relations of that country were in a disorganized condition. They saw that a state of things prevailed which could not long continue, and that if Ireland was to be governed by British laws, and by the intervention of a jury, some alteration must be made in the irritated feelings of its inhabitants. He was ashamed to have trespassed so long upon the indulgence of the House, but when he saw that his hon. and learned friend was seeking to produce an effect upon the House, by the pompous enumeration of the different guilds from which his petitions came, he did think it right to announce to those who were anxious to come to a just conclusion on this subject, the respectable petitions which he was going to present on the other side Of the question.

denied the justness of the insinuation which his hon. and learned friend appeared anxious to propagate; namely, that there was scarcely any persons but bricklayers, plasterers, and barbers, opposed to the present measures of government. And now, as to the members of the Irish bar. If he had not been misinformed, the greater part of the gentlemen who were most eminent at that bar were opposed to the measures now proposed. His hon. and learned friend's colleague in office, the Attorney-general for Ireland, was opposed to it. So, too, were Mr. Saurin, and a long list of gentlemen, whose names he held in his hand. The Irish bar, he had been given to understand, comprised from five hundred to six hundred members. His hon. and learned friend said, that his petition was signed by a hundred Protestant and sixty-seven Catholic barristers. He mentioned this, because his hon. and learned friend had dwelt, with great emphasis, on the number of names subscribed to his petition, and had left the House to guess how many there might be on the other side.

said, he did not intend to follow his hon. and learned friend through the various points of his long and entertaining speech. His hon. and learned friend had made, however, one or two observations to which he must be permitted to give an answer. His hon. and learned friend, after making a very extraordinary disparagement of the judgment and information of the humbler classes of his fellow-countrymen, had included within his sarcasms all the different trades from which he had that night had the honour of presenting petitions. The amusing manner in which his hon. and learned friend had alluded to them, had excited the merriment of the House. For his own part, he loved a joke, but by some strange accident he could not enjoy it at the expense of his constituents. In spite of the sneers which had been directed against him, he would say, that among the individuals whose petitions he had presented, were to be found some of the most intelligent, independent, and best-informed men, on every practical subject connected with the state of society in Ireland; and though his hon. and learned friend had thought right to turn into derision the members of the municipal institutions of his native city, by covering them with every species of ridicule, he would venture to tell him, that the humblest individuals in those guilds had feelings, wishes, rights, and privileges, to be consulted, which were as dear to them as the feelings, wishes, rights, and privileges of the highest classes of society. Though the humblest individuals might not be able to form opinions as to the result of political measures, still they felt an interest in those measures, which no wise statesman ought to overlook. Their religion, their privileges as Protestant citizens, their rights as British subjects, were as dear to them as they were to the most respectable of the gentlemen that heard him. They had a right to be heard on all matters of national importance, and their sentiments were entitled to the respectful consideration of the House. Let him tell his hon. and learned friend, that the world, since the French Revolution, had furnished too many examples that brilliancy of talent was not exclusively connected with eminence of rank. Let him tell his hon. and learned friend, that though the judgment of the poorest man in the state might not be a title for him to guide the conduct of parliament, still it ought to be taken into consideration. Any man, however unbrilliant he might be, might produce a useful suggestion; and there was not a subject of this realm whose feelings, and wishes, and prejudices, ought not to be treated with respect in parliament. In mentioning that respect ought to be paid to the prejudices of the people, he would refer to an authority which he was sure his hon. and learned friend would admit as excellent: he meant, the authority of the late Mr. Canning, who, in reference to this subject, and to the general feelings of the Protestants of the empire in the year 1827, declared, that there was an inert mass of opposition to these claims in the country, which he would not venture upon the responsibility of moving. His hon. and learned friend had told the House, that if he (Mr. Moore) had ever applied his understanding to the consideration of this question, he would have come to a contrary conclusion. His hon. and learned friend had alluded to peculiar circumstances—what they were he could not imagine—which, he said, had given a bias to his mind, and led to his present course of public action. If his hon. and learned friend meant to insinuate, that he had adopted certain political opinions, in order to get returned for the city which he had the honour to represent in parliament, his hon. and learned friend imputed to him that for which there was no foundation. His hon. and learned friend, he was sure, would not impute to him that he had ever changed his political opinions; for, so long as he had been able to entertain explicit opinions on any subject, his opinions on this question had always been of the same character. Ever since he had been able to think on political subjects, he had come to the conclusion on which he had recently acted. Through all his collegiate life, through all his academical career, even then, when from the influence of youth and the presence of classical associations, the flame of liberty burnt brightest—even then he had always tempered its heat with a mixture of loyalty, avowing, that true liberty could only be maintained in this country by a strict adherence to the Protestant principles of the British constitution.

I have been particularly unfortunate if I have said any thing which could be fairly considered to reflect upon my hon. and learned friend. I am convinced, that my hon. and learned friend did not adopt his present principles to secure to himself the representation of the city of Dublin. I did not make any such charge against him. What I said was this—that just in proportion as his pledges on this question had been given positively and strongly, were his opinions likely to remain unchanged and unchangeable. All that I insinuated was, that whilst others had allowed their opinions to change with the change of circumstances, my hon. and learned friend had remained unchanged, because he would never allow his reason to have fair play upon this question.

bore testimony to the respectability of many of the signatures attached to the petitions presented by his hon. and learned colleague. He wished them, however, a total change of opinion, as it would not only do them great credit, but tend to conciliate the peace of the country. His hon. colleague had certainly gained his seat in that House by the use of two magic words—"Protestant ascendancy." He had addressed every guild of the corporation of Dublin with those words, and in every guild they ensured him applause and success. By such means, after four days' labour, he achieved that which had cost him (Mr. H. Grattan, six years' labour to obtain.

said, that the petition he had next to present was signed by upwards of four thousand persons, who had not merely subscribed their names, but added their addresses. It included as large a mass of respectability and wealth as was perhaps to be found in any equal number of signatures. It was subscribed by the main body of the Magistrates of Dublin, by a great portion of the higher class of society in that capital, by a considerable number of freemen and freeholders, besides between four and five hundred students of the University. The addition of these names testified that the rising youth of Ireland were as much opposed to further concession as those of more mature years. It might be said to speak the general sense of the youth of Ireland; for though residing in Dublin, they were connected with families all over the country—and, when it was found, that to a petition of this kind were attached so many names of students of the University, the fair inference was, that the opinion of the youth of Ireland was in accordance with their sentiments.

said, he should not have uttered one word respecting this petition, were it not for the observations with which his hon. and learned friend had thought proper to accompany its presentation. The hon. and learned gentleman had described this petition as conveying the sense of the rising youth of Ireland, and particularly of those of the University of Dublin, as well as of the heads of society in the Irish metropolis. It had so happened from opportunities which he enjoyed and of which it was unnecessary for him further to speak, that he had the means of knowing what was the opinion of the rising youth of Ireland upon this great question. And accordingly, from his experience and best information, he could truly affirm, that their opinion now, and indeed for the last twenty years, was favourable to the adjustment of a question which they felt to involve the peace and tranquillity of their country. Indeed it would have been hard upon the youth of Ireland were the fact otherwise, for it was the attribute of those early times of life to be frank and ingenuous, and, when unbiassed by undue impressions to he always favourable to principles of freedom. He knew, indeed, and probably it was equally familiar to his hon. and learned friend, that men might be found who would consider the University as a fit and appropriate place to infuse into youthful minds very different sentiments—who would betray the sacred trust reposed in them, and instead of conducting the path of youth to purity of feeling, and generosity and liberality of conduct, would take the opportunity of infusing into the tender mind the deadly virus of party strife, and at a time too, when the understanding was not matured, and the judgment not clearly directed for the consideration of a subject which involved many difficulties in its various aspects. If such attempts were made in that University, confident he was, they must have been attended with signal failure. He could speak positively of the rising youth of the Irish bar, among whom he was very happy to say, there only prevailed one sentiment, and it corresponded with that expressed and so often vindicated by his hon. and learned friend (Mr. Doherty), who was so distinguished an ornament of their profession. He could not perhaps speak so fully of the sentiments of another portion of the youth of Ireland, who went forth from the University to the Church of Ireland. But of them, or of the great majority of them, he could safely say, that he had seen them preparing for the study of that sacred profession to which they were destined with principles suitable to their object—he had seen them animated by a pure zeal for their holy religion; but he had always heard them upon this particular question of Catholic exclusion, say, that they considered it not a religious but a political question, and one which they were prepared to leave to the judgment of the government and the legislature. He could not sit in silence, while his hon. and learned friend imputed to the rising youth of Ireland, and more particularly of the University of Dublin, to which he was bound by ties of feeling and affection which must endure through life, sentiments that were alien to their character, and to which he was bound to give the fullest contradiction.

said, that with regard to his hon. and learned friend's contradiction, he could only repeat that the petition was signed by a considerable portion of the students of the University of Dublin, and he had the best assurance for believing, that these sentiments were participated by forty-nine out of fifty of the rising youth of Ireland. If there was any disingenuous influence at work to obtain these signatures he could assure his hon. and learned friend that it was entirely unknown to him. He did not believe that any such efforts were made to infuse into the minds of these young men improper sentiments, or that it was necessary to make any efforts to induce their exertions in the maintenance of Protestant principles. He believed, in fact, that the youth of Ireland pressed forward voluntarily to express their opinions, and needed no excitement for that purpose; and though he knew that some of the heads of the University had fully avowed their opinions on this great question, he firmly believed there was not one among them capable of betraying his trust, so far as to avail himself of the influence of his station, to excite illiberal political feeling, or to interfere in the slightest degree with the honest opinions of those over whom he presided.

said, he had no doubt that the hon. and learned member for Dublin had honestly expressed his private opinion On this subject, and that the students of the University, whose names were signed to the petition, had also expressed their sentiments honestly. It appeared, however, that those persons were undergraduates, young men entered in the first stage of college education. As such he was willing to give this expression of their sentiments all the weight and importance it deserved. He could not allow, however, that it should have the same weight and importance, as if they were persons not pursuing the elements of education, but whose education had been perfected, and whose opinions had been formed upon a knowledge of the laws and of the constitution of the country, and upon the experience of the state of Ireland for the last eight-and-twenty or thirty years. Whatever else the petitioners belonging to the University had, they had not experience. It only amounted to the fact, then, that a few hundreds of the undergraduates of the college signed the petition. The hon. and learned gentleman had said, that forty-nine out of fifty of the under-graduates were unfavourable to concession; but, if this was the case, why had they not come forward? Not one- sixth part of the under-graduates belonging to the college appeared to have signed this petition. If the hon. gentleman was right in his statement as to the opinion of the students, why did he come forward with a petition signed only by one-sixth part of the under-graduates? Considering that no petition had come from the heads of the University, with all respect he thought it was not the wisest thing these young gentlemen could do, to put their names to this petition, nor was it the wisest thing on the part of their instigators. He conceived that a petition presented under such circumstances would not have much weight with the House. The University of Dublin was the eldest daughter of the Reformation. She had set an example of moderation and liberality, by admitting other sects to have the benefit of education within her walls; and she alone had a right to the proud title of being the child of the Reformation. On the present occasion, however, the University of Dublin had taken no part on this question; and she was right in so doing. A great mass of Protestant youth, and a great mass of Catholic youth, were educated within the walls of the University; and the University, therefore, did right to abstain from taking any part for or against; unless, indeed, a very strong dislike existed, which he had no hesitation in saying did not exist. The University had, therefore, abstained from petitioning; and by so doing it spoke with a voice louder than that of tongues. When the University was silent at this crisis, at this acme of excitement, he was entitled to say that it was friendly to toleration. At all events, it was not too much to say, that the members were willing to place their confidence in the wisdom of parliament, and were aware of the mischief of introducing the seeds of political hatred into a place devoted to the education of youth. He thought he might go thus far without claiming too much for those opinions which he held on the subject of the Roman Catholic claims. The hon. and learned gentleman and himself were at one time rival candidates for the University of Dublin. With his own very small personal qualities, however, so little likely to incline the members of the University in his favour, Protestant zeal was so very low, or something in opposition to the hon. and learned gentleman's principles operated so strongly, that he, though he was the avowed advocate of the Catholic claims, was returned in opposition to the hon. and learned member; and if the same case occurred again, and the hon. and learned member sought the representation on his present principles, he would find himself in a very small minority. From what had already occurred, the House might pretty well judge of the disposition of the University of Dublin on this subject.

regretted, that he was again called upon to address the House; but, as his hon. friend had referred to his personal experience in a canvass which took place some years ago, he thought it his duty to say, that the canvass to which the hon. member alluded was conducted under very peculiar circumstances, and that the hon. gentleman had secured very many engagements from those averse to further concessions, before he (Mr. M.) commenced his canvass. In conclusion, he observed, that when an opportunity offered, if the honourable member tried the strength of the principles he advocated in a contest for the University of Dublin, he would find himself greatly disappointed.

said, he was not at all prepared for, but on the contrary, was sorry to find so great a question as this turn upon any allusion to the movements of so humble a person as himself. But he must tell the hon. and learned gentleman, that he flattered himself exceedingly, if he supposed that a Protestant bigot could ever hope to represent the University of Dublin. It was only necessary to refer to the names of those who had represented it, to demonstrate that this kind of intolerance could not find admission there. Take the names during the whole of the time that this Catholic question had been agitated. In 1793, the University was represented by Mr. Browne and Mr. Hutchinson, who were both in favour of the Catholic question; next by Mr. George Knox, the very person who, in the Irish parliament, brought forward a motion to admit Catholics into the legislature. For a short time after, the University was, lie knew, represented by Mr. Foster; who had, like other enlightened men, lately changed his previous opinions, which were anti-Catholic. After him came the ablest advocate the Catholics ever had in parliament, lord Plunkett, who had been repeatedly returned for the University. With the single exception, then, of Mr. Foster, the University of Dublin had, since the year 1793, when these Catholic discussions became urgent, returned representatives who were always favourable to the Catholic claims.

said, he had two petitions to present to the House, which were well entitled to their particular attention; one was from the Roman Catholics of Ireland, for admission to the privileges of the constitution; and the other came from a quarter, and was attended by circumstances, which he had no doubt would give it due weight with that House. It was signed by eight thousand Protestants in London, who gave their places of residence, and in the progress of its receiving signatures, particular care was taken that each individual signed only his own name, and that no person under age subscribed it. To such a scrupulous delicacy was this precaution as to signatures carried, that he had a note to show that the name of an eminent scientific gentleman, Mr. Holdsworth, of Argyll-street, would not be permitted to be affixed through the agency of another person who had permission to offer it. Under these honourable circumstances had eight thousand names been signed to this petition. It might be said, therefore, to come before the House as a fair sample of the sense of the liberal and thinking portion of the Protestants of the metropolis, who might themselves be taken as a specimen of the sense of the Protestants of England upon this great question. Much had been said of the manner in which certain petitions of an opposite nature had been got up, and the relative degree of attention to which they were entitled. No man was less willing than he was to cast a slur upon any petition, or to throw any impediment or obstacle in the way of its reaching their table. Still, there were circumstances which really forced themselves upon their consideration. When they heard, for instance, that the very worst passions of the people were appealed to, to excite them to no-popery petitions—when fierce animosities, which had been long appeased or forgotten, were attempted to be revived—when obsolete prejudices, and the spirit of gone-by contentions, were vehemently recalled, for the purpose of getting up some of these petitions, it behoved the House to look at the fact, and to draw from it the proper conclusion. It was impossible for them to overlook such transactions. There were people at that moment to be found scattering through the country the most violent and inflammatory placards, some of them embellished with prints, for the purpose of enlisting those who were unable to read; and, what was the outline of those prints, which were to ensure to the petitions emanating from their agency peculiar consideration from the legislature? In one of them, a Catholic was represented with a cross in one hand, and a brand in the other, ready to light up the dormant flames of persecution. There were friars and popes, in all attitudes and modes of applying combustible matter to Protestants. Every absurdity that the most rancorous mind could invent, was here portrayed, and recourse was had to such base as well as silly means to stimulate the deluded or the unwary into religious conflict. The prints were worthy of the text. In the first place, they proclaimed, that it was the first doctrine of Papists to keep no faith with heretics—that was given as a fundamental article of the Catholic religion; and that all heretics were to be damned like Luther and Calvin. Then came a variety of trash in the shape of interrogatories. The first question was "Who burned the Protestants to death in the year 1519? Who butchered them at the stake in 1520? Who set up the bloody Inquisition? Who massacred two hundred thousand of the Protestant inhabitants of Ireland in the memorable year 1641? Who were the supporters of the Catholic question? Those who had been endeavouring to upset the altar and the throne, during the last thirty years." A pretty compliment this to the duke of Wellington, and to the right hon. Secretary, to be classed among conspirators against the Throne during the last thirty years! When such stimulants were applied, to induce the bad and the ignorant to take a part in these petitions, how could parliament be expected to pay the least attention to productions emanating from sources so polluted? There was no natural basis upon which such a silly and unsound system could be reared in this country; and what value could any rational man think such efforts to possess? When he heard gentlemen, with more frankness than truth, say "these petitions have faults on both sides—we must not be too inquisitive into their composition," he felt himself called upon to reply, that there was no proof of such practices, on the part of those who were favourable to concession; they spoke the sense of the public, fairly and honourably taken. When the right hon. gentleman, in his able speech upon the introduction of his bill, had anticipated the peace and tranquillity which he thought it would produce throughout the country, he could hardly have contemplated so speedy a realization of his benevolent wishes. The people did not wait for the result in order to be satisfied. Not only did the Catholic Association take the earliest opportunity of relieving the friends of conciliation from the embarrassment of their existence in opposition to the law, by dissolving, themselves at once upon the faith of the pledge conveyed in his majesty's Speech, and the promise which was given by the king's ministers of the redress of their wrongs, it also had, with a wisdom and generosity which did it the highest credit, declined all agitation and left the country to its own unstimulated agency at such a crisis. A statement had been made to him, that not only had the Catholic Association performed this act of wisdom and justice, but that several of the Brunswick and Orange Clubs had imitated their example, and evinced a disposition to make a voluntary sacrifice of their prejudices, and to join with the Catholics in restoring general harmony and tranquillity. The Catholics, he understood, had every where received these demonstrations of good feeling with open arms; and this was a foretaste of the benefits likely to be derived from the consummation of this great act of national justice. He had heard much said in that House of the conduct of the right hon. Secretary. It would be presumptuous in him to say one word in approbation of the right hon. gentleman, after what had been said of him by other honourable members. But some hon. gentlemen had said, that his character suffered by the change of his opinion. Now, he desired to know in what respect the right hon. gentleman's character suffered. They could not say how. The wish and desire to carry peace and tranquillity to the people of Ireland, and strength and security to all, could not bring injury to his character. If honourable gentlemen would allow themselves calmly to consider the question in all its various bearings, they must see that no reasonable ground of reproach attached to the right hon. gentleman. He would rather hope that their expressions arose more from momentary irritation than from any deliberate conviction of the right hon. gentleman's political inconsistency; and he had no doubt a little time would convince them of the wisdom of the right hon. gentleman's conduct, and of that of the other promoters of the measure.—He could not avoid referring, for a moment, to the able and manly speech made on the evening of the debate by the right hon. Secretary for the Colonies (sir G. Murray). He might almost say, that since he had had the honour of a seat in that House, he had not heard a more effective speech, or one which was more direct to the purpose. Feeling as he did, with respect to the profession to which that right hon. gentleman belonged, he ventured to say, that there were no men more liberal and enlightened than its members—no persons who could he more properly designated men of the world—in the true meaning of the term—no individuals who better understood the, conduct of practical affairs, or who, on the whole, judging from what we saw around us, appeared better calculated (though they did not always receive credit for it in the House) to manage the affairs of the nation. The right hon. and gallant gentleman had read, from the ranks of the army, a lesson to the church. His speech made it necessary to reverse the old adage—"Cedunt arma togœ". The right hon. gentleman's speech was equally creditable to his heart, and to his understanding; it came from the heart of the speaker, and it went home to the heart of the hearer. There was one passage which he could never sufficiently admire. "In the army," said the gallant officer, "there are no distinctions—no differences on account of religion. It is in civil society only that I have found such differences prevail. In the army, the Catholic and the Protestant soldiers dwelt in harmony in the same tent; they march in the same ranks; they mount together the same breach; and the only competition which is known between them is, the competition of emulation to excel in courage, and in fidelity to their country. And if they fall together in the same field, they are laid together in the same grave; leaving behind them the same feelings of regret in the breasts of their surviving comrades; and carrying with them to another world, the same hopes in their common Redeemer." He would have that passage of the gallant general's speech inscribed, if possible, in letters of gold, to enrich with it the walls of every cottage in England and cabin in Ireland. With respect to the measure recommended by his majesty's government, and the noble duke under whose auspices it was brought forward, both were above praise. When he spoke thus of that illustrious individual, now, he might say, "With surpassing glory crowned," he only joined in common, with the rest of his countrymen, in attributing with one accord to the noble duke the well-earned renown and merit which were undoubtedly his due, for the benefits which his present course must confer upon the State—benefits which every one, in a very short time, would feel and acknowledge. With reference to this subject, he might quote the words of a great writer, Harrington, who said, that there was something in the leading of armies, and the government of states, which was the peculiar business of gentlemen. The administration which the country now possessed was a decided proof of the truth of that observation. The Catholics of England had borne all their burthens and disabilities without reproach; and now that they were to be at last freed from them, if he did not speak what he felt with respect to them, it was because their conduct was above all praise. When they and their Irish brethren were received back within the pale of the British constitution, we should at length have an united empire. The time of the House would not be taken up with the ills of Ireland as it had hitherto been; and there was nothing which we might not anticipate, on this score, in the way of public benefit. He did trust that the settlement of this question would cause the most sanguine anticipations that had been entertained with regard to it to be realized. A Letter had been confided to him on this subject, which was of the most gratifying description. Indeed, until he saw it, he had no conception that the beneficent measure of the king's government could have had so speedy an effect in removing party animosities. The communication was dated from Clonmel, where it appeared that the Quakers had hitherto been decidedly opposed to the Roman Catholics. The Letter stated, that the reconciliation between the most adverse of the Roman Catholics and Protestants was proceeding with the greatest rapidity. At Clonmel, the writer added, the Quakers had taken a strong political part against the Roman Catholics; but soon after the king's Speech at the opening of the session, and that of the right hon. Secretary were received, several Quakers of respectability, proposed to the leading Catholics, through their secretary, a reconciliation between the opposing parties. This proposition was received with the greatest satisfaction by the Catholics, who requested that there might be no delay in the amicable arrangement, and that the reconciliation should not be postponed for a single day. It was wished that the parties should parade the streets arm-in-arm: every one hailed the reconciliation; and party spirit was suddenly put an end to. Had we not, then, every reason, looking at this speedy and desirable consequence of the measure, to augur the happiest results from its completion. When we saw states undisturbed by domestic jealousies, in which all parties were admitted to the free enjoyment of political rights, without regard to their religious opinions, why might we not be certain of the same effects being produced here by the adoption of similar means? He hoped that gentlemen, who, no doubt, acted from honest prejudice in opposing this measure, would see grounds to mitigate their apprehensions, and at length concur in the belief, that their fears were imaginary, and that the same good consequences might be expected to ensue here, as in other countries, from a wise and liberal policy. In France all religions were not only tolerated, but the professors of them were placed upon an equal footing, as regarded civil privileges; Protestant and Catholic deputies sat in the same Chamber; no distinction was recognized; the peculiar religious persuasion of the parties being scarcely known—certainly not regarded. The consequences of this system of equal privileges in that enlightened country were of the most favourable kind. Was it possible to believe that the same effects would not follow in this country? His sincere and ardent prayer was, that this question might now be finally and satisfactorily settled: and he hoped and trusted never again to be called upon to say another word with regard to it.

confessed he felt no little surprise at the eloquent eulogium pro- nounced by the hon. baronet upon the blessings of a military government [Cries of "No."]. If his ears did not very much deceive him, the hon. baronet certainly did, in substance, pronounce an eulogium upon a military government. The hon. baronet declared most distinctly that, in his opinion, a military government was the fittest for this country in its present circumstances: he said he rejoiced to see military men in that House, and the responsible situations in his majesty's government filled by members of that profession, possessing as they did the distinguished chief at the head of the administration. From this he was justified in assuming, that the hon. baronet did approve of a military government, and considered it best for the country. He had heard much of the quarter-master-general, and the staff of the noble duke at the head of the ministry, and he trusted he might be allowed to say he heard them spoken of, as the hon. baronet had alluded so pointedly to the subject of a military government. This, however, he begged to be understood as doing with every possible respect for the gallant person in question. He confessed he very much doubted how far sentiments so flattering to military governments would be acceptable to the people of England, in the assertion of whose rights the hon. baronet had so frequently stood forward. He put it to that hon. baronet, whether that people, whose champion he formerly was proud of being, would not look with jealousy upon any measure introduced by a military government; and he must take the liberty of saying, that if they were told that the bill must pass, because it had support and countenance from a certain high quarter, hon. members opposite departed from their usual practice, in allowing such assertions to pass, without standing forward in support of that great constitutional principle, which repudiated any interference with the proceedings of that House. Those who were pretty well acquainted with the constitution of the country, regarded such interference with the freedom of debate, and the privileges of the legislature, as, to say the least of them, not very decorous. Upon that point he did not think it necessary to say any more, nor should he have said so much, had he not thought it due to the privileges of that House. With respect to the general tenour of the observations which the House had just heard from the hon. baronet, lie would leave them to be answered by other members, attached to the true Protestant principles of the constitution. He could not have been tempted to rise at all, were it not to point out to the House the degree in which the hon. baronet was enamoured of a military government.

said, he could not refrain from offering one word expressive of the satisfaction he felt at the hon. baronet's description of the reception which the measure had met with in Ireland. That reception was of the most gratifying description. It might not have been unreasonably expected, that the measure would have been received in Ireland with the intoxication of victory, or the insolence of triumph. So far, however, was this from being the case, that, from all the information which had reached him in his official capacity, it appeared that the announcement of the measure was received with a calm and reasonable satisfaction, which did equal honour to the Catholics and to that portion of the Protestants who had advocated their claims. The news was received with warm but temperately expressed, though zealous gratitude towards the sovereign, the singular glory of whose reign would, he trusted, be shortly consummated by the accomplishment of this great measure. For himself, he could say, that he hailed the prospect of its completion with feelings of no ordinary satisfaction. If ever he had thought that this great boon might at length come one day too late to effect its useful and beneficial purposes—or if, in his zeal for such a cause, he conceived that the book of the sybil had been burnt once too often, he was now ready to acknowledge his mistake, and admit that his fears were premature. Reference had been made to what was termed a military government. He confessed, for his own part, he did follow the political banners of the noble duke at the head of the ministry with little less confidence than, under other circumstances, he should have followed those military banners, which, under the direction of that illustrious individual, had never yet been unfurled but for victory. There might be difficulties attending the completion of this measure—he did not deny it—but, looking at the whole tenour of the noble duke's life—at the success which had invariably attended him—and he might add, at the greatness and goodness of his present cause—he did not fear for the result, Viewing that dis- tinguished person's many and splendid achievements—glancing from the plains of Assaye and the lines of Torres Vedras towards those later triumphs that had ennobled his career, one might say, brilliant as those prospects were, never, among all those illustrious achievements, did a prospect expand to his view more teeming with present glory to himself, and future and permanent advantage to his country, than that now opened before him, through the accomplishment of this great measure. The long list of the noble duke's triumphs would be crowned, he sincerely hoped not closed, by the imperishable brilliancy of this laurel, which would, in the comparison, impair the lustre of his preceding victories. His prayer was, that the noble duke might live to see the day, when the watchword of glory, long familiar to our ears—when the names of liberated Spain and subjugated France—would be lost in the shouts of acclamation raised for freed and placid Ireland.

observed, that the petition presented by the hon. baronet was signed by eight or nine thousand individuals. He knew nothing of the persons by whom it had been got up. All he knew was, that he had seen the place on Corn-hill, where it lay for signature, and he observed that every individual who applied for the purpose of attaching his signature was asked where he lived, and told to put his residence as well as his name to the document. For his part, he disapproved entirely of this mode of getting up petitions, and thought there should be public meetings held for the purpose of ascertaining the opinion of the inhabitants. This petition, however, managed as it had been, afforded a fair indication of the feeling of a great number of respectable and intelligent persons in the metropolis, on the subject of the Catholic question.

, with reference to the subject of a military government, observed, that the hon. baronet, the member for Westminster, had merely said, that there was nothing in the character of a military commander to incapacitate him from looking largely, wisely, and liberally, at matters of state policy. He did not pretend to say that these were the exact words of the hon. baronet, but such he understood to be their sense and meaning. The hon. member for Dover thought he had gained a great advantage upon this point, and that the hon. baronet was advocating a military government. The fact was, the hon. member confounded the deserved tribute paid by the hon. baronet to the talent and firmness of the noble duke at the head of the cabinet, with an expression of approbation of the principle of a military government on the part of the hon. member for Westminster; than which he was sure nothing could be further from his hon. friend's intention. Could the hon. member for Dover say nothing for the labours of the Convention Parliament which sat in 1688, and was happily the means of introducing into England the great soldier who afterwards conducted our government? Could he see in the exertions of that parliament nothing but an effort to introduce a military government? If the hon. member for Dover could see no distinction between the hon. baronet's just eulogium of the duke of Wellington's administration, and an approval of the principle of a military government, it was not the fault of the hon. baronet, but of the hon. member himself. He rejoiced at the evidence offered by the hon. baronet and the noble lord, the secretary for Ireland, relative to the tranquillizing effect of this great measure, which he sincerely trusted would remove the animosities and heal the wounds of that country. God grant that the friends of this measure might not be deceived as to its expected consequences. He trusted and believed that they would prove right in their anticipations. Sure he was, that the Roman Catholics of Ireland, whose feelings, opinions, and interests, the hon. baronet had so long, so zealously, and so faithfully represented, could not do more wisely than to follow the advice and conform themselves to the example of their tried and eloquent advocate, and receive with gratitude, frankness, and cordiality, this the greatest and most healing measure ever proposed to the legislature since the first day in which the House of Brunswick had been called to the throne of these kingdoms.

said, he wished to make one observation on what had fallen from the hon. baronet. He was as ready as any member to admit, that, in some instances, means had been used to obtain signatures which were not as unexceptionable as might be wished; but he had reason to think that the extent to which that had been effected was infinitely less than what had been represented. By much the greater portion of these petitions, and of the signatures attached to them, were obtained under circumstances perfectly free from undue influence. It was not for him to draw the line between the intellectual part of the community, who might he supposed capable of forming a sound and intelligent opinion upon the great question,. and those who, from insufficient knowledge and limited education, might not; but of this he felt perfectly assured, that, whether right or wrong, a large proportion of the people of England were unfavourably disposed to that change in the political constitution of this country which it was the intention of his majesty's government to effect.