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Commons Chamber

Volume 20: debated on Wednesday 25 March 1829

House of Commons

Wednesday, March 25, 1829

Roman Catholic Claims—Petitions For and Against

rose, to present a Petition from the Serjeants and Barristers of the English Bar in favour of the Claims of the Roman Catholics. He had had the honour of presenting a similar petition in 1825, signed by one hundred and fifty members of the English bar; and a like petition in 1827, signed by two hundred persons practising at the English bar. The present petition was signed by three hundred and twenty-four persons, and contained the names of almost all the serjeants king's counsel, and practising barristers in the metropolis, and nearly all the talent and professional reputation to be found in the profession. He felt great pleasure in stating how entirely he participated in the feelings of the members of this profession, who, from the nature of their peculiar studies, were well aware of the principles of the constitution, and whose habits and interests, led them, on all occasions, to defend it. The petitioners expressed their gratitude to his majesty's ministers for the measures they had introduced for the settlement of the Catholic question. In this sentiment he entirely concurred; and he might be allowed to say that, in his opinion, there were not any gentlemen, in or out of that House, better qualified to form a just opinion on the subject.

presented a similar petition from Chesterfield. It was signed by about five hundred persons, amongst whom were the whole of the magistrates resident in the district. Another petition against concession had been presented by his hon. colleague on a former evening, but he believed the present petition represented the sense of the more intelligent and influential, if not the most numerous, class of the population. It had been stated, that the anti-Catholic petition was agreed to at a public meeting. The character of that meeting might be judged of by the fact, that when one of the resident magistrates came forward to speak he was interrupted, and was not allowed an opportunity to express his sentiments.

said, he did not feel disposed to offer any remarks upon the respectability of the signatures to the petition presented by the noble lord. He had no doubt that the statements made by the noble lord were perfectly correct; but, in reference to the petition which he had had the honour to present the other evening, he might be allowed to say, that it bore no numerical comparison with that now presented by the noble lord, for the petition presented by him (Mr. Mundy) had above four thousand signatures. As to the interruption which a magistrate had received at the meeting alluded to by the noble lord, the fact was, that the gentleman alluded to came forward at the commencement of the proceedings to explain why he had refused to attend to a requisition presented to him to call the meeting; but it was considered by those who conducted the meeting that it would not be in order to enter into such explanations until the resolutions were disposed of.

Justices of the Peace

rose, pursuant to notice, to move for "leave to bring in a bill, the object of which was to regulate the Office of Justice of the Peace in Counties at large, and to facilitate the discharge of the duties imposed upon those Functionaries." No one had more ample opportunities of observing the manner in which justices of the peace discharged the important duties of their office, than the Secretary of State for the Home Department. With the most perfect sincerity he bore testimony to the exemplary manner in which those magistrates performed their duties; and he hoped he should never see the day when the country would be deprived of their valuable services. by any transfer of their duties to other hands. It was impossible that they could be transferred to any hands capable of discharging them with more general satisfaction than those to which they were already intrusted. The object of the bill which he proposed to introduce would be, to facilitate the exercise of the duties, and to simplify the laws which applied to them; but by no means to trench upon the existing privileges of the magistracy. There were in all, he believed, twenty-three acts which related to the qualifications and jurisdiction of magistrates. The enactments in these were numerous, and some of them complex. He proposed to proceed as had been done with the criminal laws last session; namely, to unite them all in one general statute, repealing such portions as, upon consideration, might appear unnecessary, and making such additions as the lapse of time might have rendered desirable. He would not then enter into any details; they would be best seen when the bill should be printed. For its subsequent stages he would fix a time sufficiently remote, to allow of the fullest consideration. It might not be amiss, however, that he should then lay before the House an outline of the intended measure. The qualification of magistrates had been fixed, in the reign of George 2nd, at 100l. a year. Since that time, the value of money had so much changed, and property had so much increased, that not the slightest difficulty could be experienced in finding persons possessed of much higher qualification than that; and it had been considered highly expedient that the amount should be raised from 100l. to 300l. This, of course, was not intended to apply to local magistrates; it was only to affect justices of the peace for counties at large. It was also intended to abolish the distinction between justices of the quorum and justices of the peace; the necessity for such a distinction having long since passed away. Another provision which he intended to introduce was one for enabling magistrates to compel the attendance of material witnesses: and he would likewise propose, that the magistrate who issued a summons should attend personally to hear and assist in determining the matter in dispute. His bill would also make provision for the regular holding of petty sessions, and contain a general form of conviction; the want of which had been heretofore seriously felt, and even by the legislature itself; for in every new act a fresh form of conviction was to be given; and for offences against the common-law no settled form was extant. These defects he proposed to remedy. As respected fines and penalties he proposed that returns should be regularly made to the Clerk of the Peace, and he would introduce a provision for regulating the fees to be received by the clerks of the justices themselves. These, besides the consolidation of the acts above referred to, constituted the principal provisions of the bill. He presented it to the House with the greater confidence, it having been prepared with the assistance of his hon. friend Mr. Hob-house. Though prevented by ill-health from continuing in public life, he was anxious to give to the country the benefit of his long experience, and knowledge of the subject.

said, he did not consider that 300l: formed a good test by which to try the qualifications of a magistrate. Many a man well qualified had no more than 100l. a-year; while there were fools worth 10,000l. or 20,000l. He greatly disapproved of the number of clergy who were in the commission of the peace. The clergy ought only to be in the commission, when qualified laymen could not be found. In some counties they were able to do, without clergymen altogether, or nearly so; whereas in other counties they were a great deal too numerous. But, whether the clergy formed the majority or not, they generally formed the majority in attendance, and had every thing their own way.

protested against the language held by the last speaker. He was unwilling that there should be any interference with the clerical magistracy. They were not only well qualified generally, but especially so from the opportunities which their attentions to their parishioners afforded them. He was opposed to any alteration in the constitution of the magistracy which should introduce into that body a greater proportion than there was at present of members of the legal profession.

After a short conversation, leave was given to bring in the bill.