rose, to call the attention of the noble Secretary for Ireland, to a petition which he held in his hand from the Physicians, Surgeons, and Apothecaries, of the county of Armagh, complaining that the petitioners were required to appear before the Apothecaries' Company, in Dublin, for the purpose of taking out a license to dispense medicines. The petitioners considered it a great hardship, that although they had taken out diplomas from the medical colleges of Edinburgh, Glasgow, and Dublin, they should not be able to act as apothecaries without a license obtained from the Apothecaries'-hall. They objected to being called upon to qualify at the Apothecaries'-hall, after having passed an examination before the College of Physicians. This was not only a great hardship to the petitioners, but was likely to prove a considerable disadvantage to the population of the country, among whom those medical men practised. It was vain to expect that medical men of talent and education would go to Dublin to qualify before the Apothecaries' Company, in order to obtain permission to dispense medicine. Sooner than consent to this, many of them would prefer breaking up their establishments and quitting the neighbourhood where they resided. He believed this was already the case to a considerable extent. It was evident that the effect of such an alteration must be highly disadvantageous to the inhabitants of those parts of the country from which medical men of skill and intelligence were thus driven.

said, he had two similar petitions to present, one from the physicians, surgeons, and apothecaries of the county of Londonderry, the other from the same description of medical Practitioners in the county of Tyrone. The petitioners complained of the peculiar hardship to which they were exposed, by means of the monopoly enjoyed by the Apothecaries' Company. The act of 1791 by which the Apothecaries'-hall in Dublin was incorporated, prevented individuals from compounding and dispensing medicines who had not received a license from the company. The object of the restriction might have been a very wise one: it was probably intended by these means to hinder unskilful persons from compounding drugs. But the petitioners did not come under that denomination. The act already referred to contained a clause, authorizing the Apothecaries'-hall to recovera penalty of 20l. from every person who should attempt to exercise the business of an apothecary without their license. The consequence of the way in which this penalty was now imposed was, to render an act passed to protect the health of his majesty's subjects the means of filling the pockets of the Apothecaries' Company. The Apothecaries'-hall had commenced actions against many individuals for compounding and dispensing medicines without having complied with the regulations of the company. In adopting this course they had not exhibited the slightest inclination to serve the public, by preventing incompetent persons from acting as apothecaries: their sole object appeared to be, to minister to their own profit by securing the penalties. They had chosen skilful and able persons against whom to enforce the law; practitioners who, having received their diplomas from the colleges of London, Glasgow, Edinburgh, and Dublin, thought it derogatory to their dignity to go to the Apothecaries'-hall for the purpose of taking out a license. These persons had been selected as victims, and the worst conse- quences must ensue if a stop were not put to the mischief. There were not fewer than two hundred and fifty medical practitioners, who had taken out their diplomas in the manner described, and who were now resident in the north of Ireland, where they exercised the profession of physicians, surgeons, and apothecaries, rendering themselves, by their necessary assumption of the last-named calling, liable to the penalties which it was in the power of the Apothecaries' Company to inflict. It was said to be the object of the Apothecaries'-hall in Dublin, to put these two hundred and fifty gentlemen under an annual fine or mulct of 20l.—the sum demanded for a license; and thus to acquire a revenue of 5,000l. a year at their expense. What the Apothecaries' Company aimed at was, not to prevent unskilful persons from practising as apothecaries, but to benefit themselves in a pecuniary point of view, and keep up their monopoly. They never inquired if a man were skilful or not, but whether he was able to pay the penalty. When he paid it, they sent him a certificate of practice without any examination. It appeared perfectly ridiculous that persons capable of acting as physicians, surgeons and apothecaries in the army and navy—who had retired on half-pay, and who were sufficiently skilful and intelligent in their profession to be of the utmost service to the community—should not be qualified to act as apothecaries without license from a body of men such as the Apothecaries' Company. Yet that was the situation in which two hundred and fifty practitioners in the north of Ireland were placed, and from which they prayed to be relieved. The petitioners deprecated the monopoly, and the unjust taxation imposed by the Apothecaries'-hall. He called the attention of his noble friend to the subject which he conceived to be one that could not be passed over without investigation. No time should be lost in taking the matter up. The subject was one which called for the interposition of the House, not only for the sake of the medical profession, but for the sake of the inhabitants of the country, more particularly of the north of Ireland.

assured his hon. friend, that he had not overlooked the matter. He had put himself in communication with the authorities on the other side of the water, for the purpose of ascertaining whether any answer could be made by the Apothecaries' Company to the allegations of the petitioners. He did not yet know the nature of the representations that would be made by the company; but he wished, as much as any man, that the evil, if it were of the kind, or to any thing like the extent, stated, should be remedied.

said, he had a petition to present from the Silk-weavers of Coventry, complaining of the state of their trade. Though he could not concur in all their views, he felt bound to say, that they were much more reasonable than those of many others engaged in the same trade: for, however anxious these petitioners were for protection, they were willing to acquiesce in any more satisfactory course that government might chuse to adopt. As there was a notice standing for Thursday, given by the hon. member for Coventry, on this subject, he would take that opportunity of stating the views and intentions of his majesty's government upon the subject.

begged to state, that this petition was signed by six thousand persons. He was quite prepared to go into the inquiry on Thursday evening, and would do so fully with the permission of the House.

presented a petition from the Brewers of Dundee, complaining of the depression of their trade since the reduction of the duties on whiskey. They stated, that almost every trade was in a better condition in Scotland than theirs. He thought their case deserved the attention of the House. The duty, which was formerly 5s. had been reduced to 2s. 6d., but it remained at 7s. in England. The consequence was, that in Scotland spirits, which used to sell for eight, nine, ten, and eleven shillings a gallon, were now selling for six and seven shillings, and beer was daily more and more going out of consumption. The quantity of beer brewed in 1822 was two thousand four-hundred barrels; in 1824, two thousand one hundred; in 1825, one thousand eight hundred; and, in 1826, only one thousand five hundred; thus gradually, but rapidly decreasing was the quantity of beer consumed. It was surprising that government should suffer the duties on beer and spirits to vary so greatly in the three countries. In Ireland there was no duty whatever on beer, and while the duty on spirits in England was seven shillings, it was only 1s. 8d. in Scotland. He was sorry the chancellor of the Exchequer was not in his place to attend to these statements.

presented a petition from the Inhabitants of Callan, in the county of Kilkenny, praying for the repeal of the laws disqualifying the Jews from their civil rights, on account of their religious opinions [a laugh]. He thought this a serious question, and so did the petitioners, who, in their desire to promote the prosperity of their country, stated, that they had reason to believe, that a great deal of capital would flow into it, and promote the industry of the people, if the existing restrictions on the Jews were removed. Nothing could be more unjust than to deprive a man, whatever his religious opinions might be, of any part of his civil rights. The subject, he trusted, would occupy the attention of his majesty's government. At present, there were many sever laws on the Jews.

wished to call the attention of government to the circumstances on which this vote was proposed. When the subject of the treaty by which this colony was to be given up was formerly discussed, he had protested against the colonists being delivered up without some stipulation for their protection: and he was answered by the late Mr. Canning, that he agreed with him, that whatever loss should arise to the colonists, the House would be bound to make compensation to the suffering parties. As to the chancellor of the Exchequer, no blame certainly attached to him far the manner in which he had brought forward this vote, in pursuance of what bad been determined upon; but still he must say, that this proposed compensation was, from its deficiency of amount, an act of gross injustice to the people of Bencoolen, who had sustained an entire loss of their property in the negotiations between the two powers, notwithstanding the assurances of protection which they had received from the British government. The government and East India Company were large gainers by the disposition which had been made of this settlement, and therefore they were bound to see the people fully protected; whereas the compensation which was now offered would not amount to a tithe of their ruined property. To understand this, the committee would allow him to mention that, after the capture of the Molucca islands, a monopoly of the spice trade was engrossed by the Dutch, and all Europe dealt with them for productions of that nature. The consequence was, that they were able to keep up the markets of that article, and to raise the price sometimes one or two thousand per cent. In fact, when their monopoly was broken in upon, the prices fell eight hundred per cent. and the articles continued for many years to be sold at that reduced rate. The British government being desirous of establishing a settlement for the production of spices in some part of their eastern territories, Bencoolen was fixed upon as the only place where the culture of such produce could be practised with success, and these individuals planted nutmegs and other spices to a great extent, under the strongest promises of protection from the government. Now it was known that nutmegs required ten or fifteen years growth, before they could be made productive. The planters went to very great expense in the expectation which they were encouraged to entertain that, at the end of the ten or fifteen years, they would be allowed to reap the benefit of their labour and expenditure, And now, after laying out two or three hundred thousand pounds, it was proposed to give them a sum which would bear no sort of comparison with the capital which they had expended. In the papers before the House there was an admission by the Board of Control, that the parties had sustained a total loss of their property. A valuation was made of the amount of that property in 1821, and it was estimated at 80,000l. In 1825, when the colony was transferred, the fixed property alone was valued at 130,000l. and the increasing value of the crops in succeeding years would give some idea of the extent of the injury sus- tained by the proprietors. In 1821, the crop of nutmegs was worth 59,000l. In 1823, it was worth 69,000l., and, in the next year, 89,000l. Other spices increased proportionately in value. He had no interest, direct or indirect, in the colony; but, for the sake of public justice, he wished that the parties should receive something like a compensation for the total destruction of their prospects. It was proposed to give them 22,500l. although their property had actually been valued at 130,000l. For these reasons, although he did not often propose to increase grants, he should, on the present occasion, feel himself justified in recommending that the vote should be increased to 130,000l. He hoped the right hon. gentleman would take the hardship of the case into his consideration, and, if possible, do something for the unfortunate sufferers.

confirmed the statement of the hon. member, and said that he knew, from particular circumstances, how great was the loss of the settlers.

said, that as the two hon. gentlemen seemed to imagine that he had a discretionary power in this case, it was necessary he should undeceive them. It was true that Mr. Canning had said, that every fair compensation should be made to the parties. It appeared, from the papers on the table, that, in the compensation which was awarded, he perfectly concurred. When the matter recently came before the Treasury it was not on any question as to the amount of that compensation. The only question which he had to decide was, whether or not the parties ought to receive interest, from the time of the compensation being awarded to them. He felt it a matter of justice that they should have that advantage; and he had, therefore, decided that they should receive the amount awarded to them in 1826, with interest from that time. He could assure the hon. gentleman, that it was very difficult to ascertain the degrees of loss sustained on an occasion such as the present. Without meaning to cast an imputation in any quarter, he could state it as a fact, that estimates of the value of property were apt to be far greater and more favourable to the individuals after an arrangement, than if they were taken antecedently. It was, therefore, thought fairer to get the valuation at a time when no arrangement had been entered upon, and when no improper interested motives could be supposed to influence the parties in considering the amount of compensation to be awarded. It was necessary to reflect, that all this loss was not occasioned by the cession of the colony; and it should be calculated how much of the loss would have been sustained if the treaty had never taken place. For himself, he only acted in the fulfilment of an arrangement agreed upon by persons fully conversant with the circumstances of the case, and willing to make every fair compensation, and who, on consideration of all the particulars had come to the conclusion which was the foundation of the present vote.

gave the right hon. gentleman credit for the liberality and justice of giving these poor people interest, but contended, that it was not just to pay them only according to a valuation made several years ago, and long before their property attained its present value.

defended the propriety of the amount awarded. The planters were, he said, not entitled to full compensation for their losses from the British government, for those losses were produced by other events as well as by the cession of the colony. For instance, they could not justly demand compensation for the depreciation of their houses, nor for the withdrawal of the convicts, of whose labour they were enabled to avail themselves gratuitously until they were sent to another colony. It should be considered, that their property would have become reduced in value, even if the transfer had not taken place, and the colony had continued in our possession. It had not been found fair to exceed the valuation of 1821; which, indeed, he understood to have been made rather favourably than otherwise to the interests of the parties. If it should be asked why further examination had not been made, he would remind gentlemen, that it would have been necessary to send out commissioners; and it was thought better, both as regarded the public and the individuals, to approximate as nearly as possible to a fair valuation, than to incur any delay, or to add the expense of a commission, which must, of course, come out of the pockets of the parties.

again begged that the right hon. gentleman would reconsider the matter, and give the sufferers at least one-half of their just claims. At present they were scarcely about to receive one-fourth.

The resolution was agreed to.

then moved, "That 200,000l. be granted to his Majesty, to enable his Majesty to fulfil the stipulations of a Convention with his Catholic Majesty, entered into on the 28th day of October 1828, for the settlement of certain British Claims upon Spain, and of certain Spanish Claims upon the United Kingdom." The right hon. gentleman gave a detailed account of the various attempts made by Mr. Canning and others to compel the Spanish government to recognise the claims of British subjects, as a preparative step towards the payment of the Spanish claims upon the British government. After very protracted negotiations, it was at length agreed, by the Treaty of 1823, that these claims should be subjected to a commission, composed of British and Spanish subjects, in equal numbers. These commissioners accordingly proceeded to an examination of the claims, and it then appeared that the number of British claims upon the Spanish government amounted to three hundred and thirty-one, and the sum claimed 2,369,470l.; and that the number of Spanish claims upon the British government were ninety-nine, and the sum claimed 1,292,991l. It happened, however, that the commission, as had been foreseen, divided upon the nature of these claims, and that all the Spanish commissioners were ranged on the one side, and all the British on the other. In this case it had been provided by the Treaty, that the matter was to be referred to arbitrators; and that if they failed to come to an agreement, then the point in dispute was to be decided by lot. This reference to arbitrators, with the consequence which was likely to follow after all, of settling the claims by lot, and the changes which took place in the Spanish government, prevented any further proceedings being taken, until the arrival of count Ofalia in this country. The conferences were then renewed; but when it was found that the Spanish government was bound to pay by inscriptions in the Great Book of Spain, which Great Book had ceased to exist, it might well be supposed there was no great anxiety to have recourse to such a source of payment. The question for the House to consider now was simply — whether, under the circumstances, the sum ultimately agreed upon was a fair and just compensation for the different claimants; and he conceived, that if they looked to the amount to which these claims had been reduced on each side, they would find, that the sum now agreed to be paid was a tolerably equitable adjustment. It was found upon examination of the different claims made by British subjects upon Spain, that a sum of 616,000l. was admitted as the amount of valid claims; that 318,000l., were held to be doubtful, and that claims to the amount of 1,334,000l. were held to be totally inadmissible. There being then 616,000l. admitted, and 318,000l. doubtful, it was supposed that if the Spanish government would pay a sum of 900,000l. that sum would have been a fair and equitable compensation for the claims of British subjects on Spain. That sum was accordingly agreed upon, and there was the best reason for believing, that it was a satisfactory adjustment, because it received the concurrence of all those interested in the payment. It was also agreed, that the sum of 200,000l. should be paid as a compensation for all claims of Spanish subjects upon England. The House would therefore see, that in the result a larger sum, in proportion to the whole amount was allotted to the claims of British, than was awarded to the demands of Spanish subjects. It was necessary to state, however, that the sum of 200,000l. which they were now called upon to vote, was not intended to be paid over to the king of Spain, but was to form a portion of that sum of 900,000l. which the Spanish government had agreed to pay, and to be handed over to the commissioners, to be distributed as the third instalment on the payment of 900,000l. It was satisfactory to know that two instalments of 200,000l. each had already been paid by the Spanish government; which, with the sum now to be voted, would make 600,000l., and that the payment of the remaining 300,000l. had been secured in a manner perfectly satisfactory to the parties interested. Under these circumstances, he hoped the committee would see there was no objection to the vote of 200,000l. which he now required to fulfil the terms of the Convention on the part of the British government.

said, that if the government of this country was called upon to make any compensation to the subjects of Spain, it must be for seizures which were illegal; and it would be very satisfactory to know, before they voted a sum of 200,000l., what were the seizures for which they were called upon to account. He was also disposed to think that the government of this country inflicted a very great hardship upon the subjects of the king of Spain, when it compelled them to substitute their claims upon the government of this country for a claim upon the king of Spain—a sovereign who was very well known not to take much pains for the equitable adjustment of the demands upon him, and who was not very remarkable for keeping faith with his subjects. This, he repeated, was a very great hardship upon the Spanish claimants, and tended manifestly to defraud them of their demands upon the government of this country. The right hon. gentleman said, that the claimants upon the Spanish government were satisfied with the compensation which had been awarded them. He hoped the right hon. gentleman's declaration would prove correct, and that parliament would not, in the case of the Spanish claimants, as in others, be compelled to take into their consideration the petitions of those who would seek for compensation, long after all payments had been made under the Convention. A petition had been, indeed, put into his hand that very morning, from a person who complained of injuries suffered by this Convention; and, although he disapproved of this practice of canvassing the support of members on particular questions, he could not avoid observing, from this circumstance, that the satisfaction of the claimants was not so great nor so general as the right hon. gentleman imagined. The example, too, of other cases of this description shewed that great care ought to be taken before the money was apportioned. The French claimants were even at this moment numerous, and the House recollected the claim advanced by a baron de Bode, which was under discussion last session; and which, for any thing he knew, might be again brought under their notice. He therefore thought, it was the duty of the right hon. gentleman, to be satisfied that the consent was as general as he asserted it to be.

begged to say, that there could not be the slightest question as to the right of the Crown of this country to negociate with the Spanish government on behalf of the claims of its subjects, and to enforce these upon its attention; and that there was as little doubt of the right of the king of Spain to enter into a negotiation for the settlement of the claims of its own subjects. Upon the subject of the compensation to be paid to Spanish subjects, it arose principally from seizures made by the subjects of this country during the American war, either of property which was divided among the captors or destroyed; and there could not be the least question that the government was bound to make it good. The hon. gentleman had objected to the proposition for making the subjects of the king of Spain creditors of that sovereign; but he would contend that the government of this country was bound, in a Treaty of this description, to presume the king of Spain to be disposed to satisfy the claims of his subjects, in the same manner as the king of England was prepared to satisfy the claims upon his government; and when the hon. member proceeded to say, that it was a hardship upon the Spanish creditors of this government to make them creditors of the Spanish government, he was bound to observe, that unless the British government had forced the government of Spain into the Convention, of which that transfer of claim was the necessary consequence, the hardship would have been transferred to British subjects, and their demands upon the Spanish government must have remained wholly unsatisfied.

would just put this case to the right hon. gentleman. Suppose we pay the amount of these claims, taking them to be bonâ fide ones, over to the king of Spain, and that he should fail in his engagement to his subjects, to pay them—suppose that, under such circumstance, a subject of the king of Spain brings an action against the British government in the High Court of Admiralty, and that the judge decides in favour of the claimant, could this government put in as a plea against the demand, the arrangement which had been made with the king of Spain? Could any payment which we had made to a third party be pleaded as payment to a bonâ fide claimant in this instance? The hon. member instanced a case where the French government made a similar arrangement with the government of Spain, paying over to that government a certain sum to discharge the claims of Spanish subjects against France, and the king of Spain never paid the money to his subjects.

said, that in the case put by the hon. member, we could plead the treaty, and that would be a valid answer to any claim preferred against this government. The arrangement which had been made with the king of Spain had been made with the consent of his subjects; and none of the claimants could afterwards come against this government for compensation, as they would be bound by the act of their agent, the king of Spain. The claimants, by preferring their demands through the king of Spain, had in fact waved their right to prosecute them in the High Court of Admiralty.

, while they were considering these questions, felt bound to ask the right hon. gentleman, whether the money was to be distributed among the claimants immediately after it was voted? He wished also to know, whether the money due upon the French claims was to be distributed, for he understood that claims to the extent 1,250,000l. were still under the consideration of the lords of the Treasury?

said, that the whole of the sum would be devoted to the discharge of the claims made by Spanish subjects. The time had not arrived for him to answer the hon. member's question as to the French claimants. The surplus in hand was 1,250,000l., and when the proper time arrived, he would give that explanation on the subject, which the hon. member was desirous to obtain.

hoped, that no arrangement of this description would operate as a bar against the claims of the British merchants on Spain in 1808, which had been recognized by lord Castlereagh.

conceived, that the right hon. gentleman was bound to state to the House in what manner the funds of these captures had been appropriated. He wished to know what had been the exact amount of the captures for which the subjects of Spain sought compensation; and what had become of their produce? In fact, he wished to know how the property captured had been disposed of—whether it had been disposed of in the way of prizes amongst the captors, or thrown into the droits of the Admiralty?

said, the arrangement under which these claims were about to be satisfied was founded on the treaty entered into in 1823. The losses for which compensation was claimed arose from captures made by our ships, and from the destruction of property by them. The property did not go to the droits of the Admiralty; part of it went to the captors, and a great portion of these claims was for property which had been destroyed.

was still anxious to know the exact amount of the property which had been captured, and what had become of it, and whether the captures had been made illegally and by private persons, or under the authority of the Crown, and by our ships of war? It was right that the real facts of the case should be known, before the House agreed to this grant.

said, that whatever might have been done with the property captured, or in whatever manner the captures had been made, it was clear that the country was bound, on the faith of treaty, to discharge the claims of the sufferers; and there could not be a doubt of the justice of those claims.

fully concurred in the opinion expressed by the hon. member for Callington. The House was bound to agree to this grant; but it would be open to the hon. member for Aberdeen to move for such papers as he might conceive would be calculated to show in what manner the amount of the property captured had been disposed of.

thought his hon. friend had better move for a committee to investigate all the circumstances relating to the application of the funds under the Spanish convention, than oppose the grant at present. Such a course, he conceived, would answer the purpose of his hon. friend, while it would do away with the appearance of a needless opposition.

said, that his object was, to ascertain the mode in which the funds were applied; in fact for what purposes the public money was voted. The difference between his hon. friend and himself, as to the mode of obtaining this in- formation, was, that whereas his hon. friend would pay and then inquire, he would inquire and then pay.

The resolution was agreed to.

said, he could not permit that opportunity to pass without protesting against the grant. The principle of it was highly objectionable; for it set one class of the community in array against the other, on religious grounds: it created discord, by giving to the members of a favoured religion, a monopoly of the public money. This undue patronage by government—this engrossment of parliamentary grants—was contrary to the principles of Christianity, which inculcated peace and good will to all men, instead of generating, as this grant did, discord and disunion. From 1814 to 1827 not less than 158,000l. of the public money had been expended by the Society for the Propagation of the Gospel in Foreign Parts, chiefly in Canada and the North American colonies; but the public had yet to learn the benefits of this large expenditure. The House would scarcely believe the small proportion which the members of the religion of that Society, bore to those of the other denominations in those colonies. Nova Scotia he would take for an example; for the church establishment of which 11,482l. was annually voted by that House; and yet, so little influence did that church possess over the inhabitants of that colony, that the sum of their contributions to the church of England was only 1,024l. The population of that colony, exclusive of Cape Breton, was one hundred and twenty-three thousand eight hundred. Of these but twenty-eight thousand six hundred were members of the church of England, while the members of the church of Scotland were thirty-seven thousand; and yet, for the former the people of England were called upon annually to pay 11,482l. while for the latter church, which had the more numerous congregation, parliament, in its munificence granted but 75l. a-year. There were twenty thousand Catholics, nine thousand baptists, and twenty-five thousand Methodists; the remainder of the population being Dissenters of other denominations. He thought it was not wonderful that those other sects should view with a jealous eye a church so favoured, and that discord and disunion should be the consequences. The withholding that grant, then, would not only induce a state of things more in harmony with the pacific spirit of the Gospel, but it would be a considerable saving of the public money. On this point he particularly addressed himself to the right hon. and gallant Secretary for the colonies, whose recent speech, so creditable to his head and heart, in favour of the present wise policy of government towards Ireland, enforced the necessity and advantages of doing away with all the means of an undue ascendancy, and thereby of all the usual sources of discord and disunion. Each sect in the colonies was, he maintained, equally loyal, and equally ready to render the best service in its power to the country; and therefore it was unfair to give one sect an ascendancy over all the others. As the law now stood, there was an established church in this country; and as that was the case, it was necessary to apply a certain income and to devote certain allowances, to its support; but in the Canadas, and Nova Scotia, there was no such thing; and therefore when he saw, year after year, large sums sent out, not for the religious advantage of the whole, but for the service of a part of the population, he could not but feel that such partiality was calculated to produce discontent and dissatisfaction. The principle of favouritism was carried to an extent that was highly reprehensible. The result of the system was, that the establishment of King's College in Canada was kept up at a great public expense; but when the Presbyterians endeavoured to raise a college, the ascendancy party took every means to prevent their receiving a very slender sum from the House of Assembly; so that cordiality between the two sects was at an end, and nothing but misunderstanding prevailed. The hon. member then adverted to many instances in which clergymen of the established church received considerable salaries out of the public money, independent of what they received from the funds of the Society for Propagating the Gospel; which he contrasted with the fact, that there were in the Canadas twenty-five Presbyterian clergymen, who received 4,000l. a-year from their congregations, while the only aid they received from England was 75l. By this partial distribution of money they created an ascendancy party; which party arrogated to themselves more authority than they were fairly entitled to. This created discord, and was attended with the most unpleasant effects. If government would withdraw its interference with respect to this province, and leave the colonial council to deal with their own funds, they would not, he was sure, as they had declared, in their memorial, require a single shilling of the public money, but would themselves support their different religious establishments. The hon. member concluded by moving, "That the further consideration of this resolution be postponed to this day month."

said, that the hon. member had stated, very truly, the sentiments which he had expressed on a recent occasion; namely, that he deprecated nothing more than the introduction into the new world of those religious differences which unhappily had too long prevailed in the old. Those sentiments he still maintained, and he hoped should always maintain. But he conceived that the vote now before the House was intimately connected, not with the interest of one sect, or of one religion, but with the interest of religion in general; and that interest, he conceived, would be materially injured by withholding this grant. The hon. gentleman must be aware, that amongst those persons who left this country, and were progressively settling in America, there were a great variety of sects; and, situated as those settlers were, every man's imagination was apt to go to work to devise some mode of worship for himself, which was calculated to produce a state of things extremely detrimental, both to himself and to the state at large; and therefore he thought it was right, on the part of the church, to send certain competent persons into those provinces to prevent such an evil. With respect to the other topics to which the hon. gentleman had alluded, he confessed it would be exceedingly gratifying to him, if he could see all denominations of sects united in one body: he should be glad if there were not such a variety of shades of difference. He thought it extremely advantageous that there should be proper places for religious education and instruction in those colonies, where such an immense diversity of feeling and opinion existed. Individuals were not prevented from taking advantage of those establishments, because they did not belong to some particular sect. The intention was the general diffusion of education, and not that it should be confined to one sect only. He should not offer any further remarks on the subject, but merely declare his thorough conviction, that the postponement of this grant would be attended with considerable danger.

said, that if this grant were to be applied to the exclusive support of a dominant church in the colonies, it should receive as much opposition from him as from the hon. member for Aberdeen; and if there were not a prospect of a material change in the system under which these colonies were governed, no consideration in the world—knowing as he did the evils which existed there, and the fears which were entertained of the establishment of a dominant church—could induce him to give it his support. But believing, as the right hon. gentleman had told them, that the grant was intended for the promulgation of Christianity generally in those colonies, he did not object to it. Neither did he object to a certain degree of favour being extended to the church of England: it was fair that it should be thus provided for, when there was no intention to make it an exclusive or dominant church. With respect to the Society for the Propagation of the Gospel, he really did hope that in future they would be more cautious in their conduct with respect to these colonies, and that they would properly weigh the reports they made to this country,—reports which were calculated to deceive the public mind, and to mislead the government as to the true state of those colonies. In the last report published by that society, he had read a statement which filled him with astonishment, as to the number of the members of the established church in Canada. A resolution was, in 1826, passed by the House of Assembly of Upper Canada, which completely negatived that statement. It was resolved "That the members of the English episcopal church in this province constitute a much smaller number than the other denominations of Christians, notwithstanding the great pecuniary aid they receive from the society in England." He need not detain the House by endeavouring to impress on the mind of the right hon. gentleman, how utterly impossible it would be to establish the church of England, exclusively in the Canadas and Nova Scotia. A good lesson might be learned by those who were anxious to support an exclusive church, by looking to what had occurred in the Canadas. The established church had withered and diminished, under the efforts which had been made to uphold it, as compared with its progress in the neighbouring States of America. In those States it was in a safe and flourishing condition, when compared with the aspect which it presented in our own colonies. There was no reason for this, except that the people had been so roused by the attempt which had been made to force the establishment on them, that a fair chance had not been given to the church; and in his opinion, that fair chance would never arrive, until an opportunity was afforded, by abandoning all idea of forming an exclusive establishment, for the church to exert her own proper powers. The declaration which was made by the right hon. gentleman the other night, that he would use his best efforts to eradicate that noxious weed of religious discord which had created so many difficulties, would, he hoped, speedily find its way to the colonies; for sure he was, that it would go further to allay irritation than any thing which had hitherto been done.

said, there was nothing in this vote that was calculated to excite the jealousy of any other church. It should be remembered, that the society which had been alluded to provided, at their own expense, and out of their own funds, a great number of missionaries, from a sincere conviction that they, in so doing, were doing a work of charity towards persons who were settled in distant colonies. They felt that they were performing a religious duty to their fellow-creatures; and if the government afterwards afforded them some pecuniary aid to assist them, it was trifling in comparison with what they expended. The House must not suppose that the great burden fell on the public. For every sum of money which parliament bestowed on them, they advanced infinitely more. About 7,000l. a year was sent out to Nova Scotia; of that sum only 400l. were supplied by government; the remainder was granted out of the funds of the society. He en- tirely agreed with his right hon. friend, that it was the duty of that House to use its efforts to inculcate religious feeling in the colonies; and he conscientiously believed, that by granting assistance to a certain extent to the labours of missionaries, without any view to partiality, they advanced the growth of morality and education in a greater degree than they otherwise could do. Entertaining these views, he should oppose the amendment.

supported the original motion, and expressed his intention of watching narrowly the motions of the hon. member for Aberdeen, on the subject of the colonies, because he thought he perceived a disposition to discourage the progress of the church of England in the colonies. Now, he would maintain that it was right they should uphold the church of England in the British colonies; and therefore he could not agree in the doctrines laid down by the hon. member. He would not consent to any proposition which tended to check the progress of the established church in any part of our possessions.

said, he would support this grant, as a useful and necessary one; and he would ask even the hon. member for Aberdeen, whether the withholding of the sum now called for, under such circumstances, would not have a tendency to discourage religion and morality thoughout the colonies, instead of having a contrary effect? The hon. member seemed to have taken up his opinion from circumstances which had been disclosed last year with respect to Canada. But he ought to bear in mind, that the members of the Presbyterian church, and the Dissenters generally, declared it to be their opinion, that there was a want of the means by which religious instruction could be imparted, throughout the colony; and their object was, to procure part of the funds that were appropriated to religious instruction, and not to abridge or lessen the amount.

The amendment was negatived, and the original resolution agreed to.

said, he must take that opportunity of impressing upon the right hon. Secretary, the propriety of removing the causes of the discontent which prevailed in the Colonies. He hailed a late event in this country as the commencement of a new and better system, which he hoped would be extended to the colonies. After acknowledging the danger of allowing just causes of discontent to remain in Ireland, which was so near to us, surely his majesty's ministers must see the necessity of pacifying a justly discontented people, who were situate at so great a distance. They might expend millions on works for the defence of the colonies, but the only garrison to be trusted to was to be found in the hearts of a free and generous people. He begged to ask of the right hon. Secretary, if he had any measure in contemplation for allaying the excitement which prevailed in some of our colonies?

agreed, that much of the seeds of those evils had been long sown in those colonies. It was, therefore, the more difficult to apply remedies to them, and the nature of those remedies required greater time for consideration and attention. He, in common with the other members of government, had long felt the necessity of bringing forward some measures founded on the report of last year; and he was still engaged in the endeavour to mature a measure, which, he hoped, would have the effect of bringing about changes in the colony, beneficial at once to the colonists and the mother Country, and calculated to cherish that attachment which a great portion of them felt to this country. This, however, would require time. All he could now say was, that matters were beginning to wear a better aspect; that the hostile feelings which had been generated by these evils were much abated; and that there was a better prospect of a foundation for rearing up a system more beneficial than the one which had hitherto prevailed. He agreed also that these results could be expected only from a liberal co-operation by the local authorities; and he would pledge himself, in all the branches at home, to forward the new measures with the utmost assiduity. He hoped, when the colonists saw the favourable disposition of this country, that the local authorities would go hand in hand with it, and that they would promote that which was, after all, the best defence of the country,—the good-will of the colonists, and an aug- mentation of the attachment of the population to this country.

said, he should be deserting his duty if he did not call upon the Secretary for the colonies to give, in answer to the noble lord, a more explicit development of the principles by which his colonial policy would in future be conducted. After the presentation of a report founded upon so great a body of evidence, and after the series of misgovernment which had taken place in Canada, he should desert his duty if he did not call upon the right hon. gentleman to give a more explicit answer. He must at the same time say, that the conduct of the right hon. gentleman since he had come into office was such as to entitle him to the thanks of the country. He had always thought, that a patriotic, able, and public-spirited minister in the Colonial-office would do more to preserve the tranquillity of the colonies than all the regiments which could be raised—such a secretary as the country now had. He had no doubt that the greatest advantages would follow from his administration.

said, that when the subject was formerly introduced incidentally, he had given the pledge which he now repeated; namely, that he had the strongest desire to forward a system of administration upon the report which had been presented. The great want, however, under which he laboured was, the want of information; and this want, he believed, would very soon be at an end.

said, that the people of Canada, had been very improperly treated. Being an independent state, and possessing an independent legislature, they asked for the management of their own revenues; which request had been refused by the council, who seemed not to obey the instructions of the right hon. gentleman opposite. That council formed a combination against popular liberties in Canada. It was in vain that efforts were made to restore tranquillity, until the council had been re-modelled, or removed. The inhabitants could not so much as appoint a post-master. The conduct of the persons who had preceded the right hon. Secretary in the Colonial-office had been such as ought to have brought them to account to the public. Until the council now established there were removed, it would be vain to hope for tranquillity in the colony. He opposed the grant.

said, that if the hon. member thought there was any hostility or disaffection to this country on the part of the population of the Canadas, he was mistaken. There were differences, and there were causes for them; but there was no hostility to the mother country.

protested against this vote. The cost of these works was generally double the estimate.

said, he had never stated, that there was hostility on the part of the Canadians to the mother country. They were hostile to the ministers; but they were loyal to the country, as their petitions testified.

The resolution was agreed to.

recommended that the bill, which was proposed to continue in force until the year 1833, should expire in May next, when another bill connected with the administration of justice in the island would also expire. He proposed this course, as a committee of inquiry would then be able to judge, by the evidence to be examined, of the operation of the bills now in force; and the legislature would thereby be more capable of determining the course proper to be pursued. The laws formerly in force relative to this colony treated it as a non-resident fishery. The effect was, that it made the situation of the settlers as uncomfortable as possible; but as more lenient laws were now in action, the island had become more settled; although, he was sorry to say, the convenience of the inhabitants had not yet received that consideration which the importance of the colony required. Previous to 1824, the system of legislature, as applied to that island, was disgraceful to this country; but the government had now altered those laws, and had shown a stronger disposition to assist the wants and wishes of the settlers. The colony had been much neglected by this country; but it was, in his opinion, one of our finest settlements in North America, and of far more importance than many of those colonies which were much more frequently heard of in that House. The court of justice established at Labrador he considered unnecessary, and the propriety of its continuance was one of the subjects to which he wished to see the attention of the House directed. All he wished was, that the bill before the House might be made to expire in May next, instead of being continued for four years. As Ireland was now about to be tranquillized, he did hope that the legislature would have time to give its attention to this colony, which would be attended with advantage to the mother country.

said, he disclaimed any participation of feeling in the anti-social system which the hon. gentleman had charged the legislature with pursuing towards this island. The only object he should regard would be that which should be the basis of all colonial connections; namely, that of promoting its prosperity, as the natural interest of both parties. He had last lession stated his intention to bring in a bill similar to this, and he had then hoped that, by the return of the chief justice of the island, he should obtain such information as would enable him to bring forward an amended bill in the course of the session. But as the chief justice had not returned, he had applied to the governor and two assistant judges for their advice, and they had concurred in the necessity of continuing these acts for some time longer, that they might see, by their operation, what amendments ought to be made in them. He did not contend for the necessity of continuing them for three years; for if, before that period had elapsed, the possession of the information he required enabled him to bring forward better measures, he would not wait, but introduce them at once.

pressed the expediency of an adoption of his hon. friend's proposition, to pledge the House to refer the subject to a committee next year. That would be the only way of arriving at the truth. He knew it from experience. He had been for five or six years urging an inquiry into the condition of affairs in Canada, and had been continually told that he was incorrect in his statements. As soon, however, as a committee on the subject was appointed, the whole of the facts came out.

The bill was taken read a second time.

objected to vest the powers granted by the bill in the hands of a single individual. He would not trust arbitrary authority in the hands of any human being. It had been well said by Mr. Wilberforce, that any man who found himself in possession of such authority ought to distrust himself, and to request to be deprived of it. Let there be an auxiliary council, composed of two or three respectable individuals, nominated by the government at home.

observed, that it was not specified in the bill, that the powers in question should be vested in an individual. The words were—"person or persons resident."

pressed his objection to the powers being vested in any one person. He had no objection to a plurality of persons. He hoped, that in the committee the right hon. baronet would agree to that alteration.

said, that although the bill empowered his majesty to vest certain powers in the hands of an individual, it did not follow that those powers should be of an arbitrary character. He never wished to see any one possessed of arbitrary authority.

added, that there was this further guard against the exercise of arbitrary authority—that, in the latter part of the bill it was provided, that all orders on the subject should be laid before parliament.

The bill was then read a second time.

said, he was of opinion, that if the object of the bill was to prevent poaching, in that object it would fail. The saleableness of game would not prevent poaching. It would not diminish the demand for game. On the contrary, it would increase it; for many persons who had hitherto scrupled to purchase game, it being illegal to do so, would, in the event of the passing of the bill, feel no difficulty on the subject. Nor would the saleableness of game drive the poacher out of the market. It would be impossible to undersell him, because he obtained his goods for nothing. Being able to sell more openly, the poacher would sell more frequently, and would be more eager to sell; "crescit amor nummi." It had been said, that the bill would clothe game with something of the character of property. What was that to the poacher? Would he trouble his head to read acts of parliament? He read the book of nature. In that book he saw that the hand of nature made game wild, and "unclaimed of any;" and he would act accordingly. The bill did nothing; nay, it did worse than nothing, for, it pretended to do something, and thus diverted the attention of the legislature from considering some effective measure. There was no other way of diminishing poaching, but by regulating the preserves, and diminishing the temptation. Accumulated and exposed as pheasants now were, it was to be expected that they would be attacked by the spirited and hardy class of men abounding in the lower orders. A suggestion had been made some time ago, that one desirable plan would be, to put the pheasants upon short commons, and to diminish the quantity of artificial food grown for them; that barley and peas should not, as now, be grown expressly for the pheasants. He was aware that that suggestion might be open to some objection, but he was not aware that it could be justly considered as liable, until he found that it was so. For his own part, he was much afraid that the incorrigible poachers would turn this bill to their own benefit, and that they would drive, if not a mail coach, at least, a game cart through it.

agreed that this was not a good bill, and that its only merit was, that it was an attempt to suppress poaching. Still he thought it would be worth while to try the experiment. It would enable other persons to meet the poacher in the market, and although they could not expect to undersell him, many persons would buy from the regular dealer, who would not buy from the poacher. He allowed that the gentlemen of the country had, of late years, greatly increased the number of poachers, by accumulating pheasants in preserves, and by sporting in a manner never thought of in former times. If, instead of reserving their means of sport for a particular period, they were always hunting and shooting in their covers, the quantity of game would be so reduced and so scattered, that it would not be worth the while of the poachers to expose themselves to risk for such scanty and uncertain profit. There were several great deficiencies in the measure. In the first place, the hon. gentleman forgot that the poacher might, under it, take game to market either before or after the lawful season for killing — either in August or in February. It ought to be provided in the bill, that any man convicted of buying or selling game at an unlawful season should pay a penalty: and that whoever was found killing game at an unlawful season should be compelled to procure security for his good conduct for a year. As to qualifications, the bill adverted only to rank, whereas—

suggested to the hon. member the expediency of deferring any remarks on the details of the bill until it should be in the committee.

Mr. Lockhart acquiescing in this suggestion, the motion for re-committing the bill was agreed to, and the House resolved itself into a committee. Various amendments, obviating the objections which had been made to the bill, were introduced into the different clauses by Mr. S. Worttey. The bill then passed through a committee, and the report was ordered to be taken into further consideration an Friday.