said, he had to present a petition from the landowners and others of Cumberland, complaining of the great depression in the price of British Wool, and of the distress which they laboured under, in consequence. The petitioners attributed these evils to the large quantity pf foreign wool imported into this country; and the prayer of their petition was, that the House would re-impose a higher duty on foreign wool sufficient, to amount to protection. He was bound to state, that he differed from the view which his constituents had taken, both of the causes of the evil, and of the remedy for it; but, at the same time he could bear, testimony to the fact, of the existence of the distress complained of. He thought, also, that there was something anomalous in this; namely, that the grower of the would told them he was selling his wool at a price, infinitely too law, while the manufacturer declared that he was working up that wool almost at a loss. When he considered the depression which prevailed generally in the manufacturing and agricultural interests, and the time at which that depression had come; namely, at the period in which the bill of the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Peel) opposite had come into full operation—he thought himself justified in asking, whether there was not some justice in the predictions of those who said, that the measure of the right hon. gentleman would enhance the value of money by contracting the currency, and that the consequence would be confusion and distress in all branches of industry. This, however, was not the time to discuss this subject; yet he could not resist the opportunity of pressing upon the House the consideration, whether this question was not at the bottom of our difficulties. He could not help observing upon the injustice of attempting to pay in the present currency the interest of a debt contracted during the existence of a depreciated paper currency. Was it not alarming to reflect, that out of a revenue of fifty millions, we had not more than sixteen millions applicable to the current service of the year? These were matters which it was the duty of ministers to take into their most serious consideration; for now that Ireland was pacified, all other questions sunk into insignificance in comparison with them. He would remind hon. gentlemen opposite of the conduct of the late lord Londonderry, who, in 1822, when the contraction of the currency, had caused considerable distress, came, with his wonted firmness of character, down to the House, and proposed to legalise the circulation of small notes until the year 1833.

said, that wool which had formerly sold for 58s. was now selling for 23s. Long wool had been excluded from the inquiry of the House of Lords last year; but the subject was to be brought forward again in that House by a noble duke, and he trusted that some hon. member would call the attention of this House to it.

hoped that ministers would take into their deliberate consideration the whole state of our agricultural and commercial interests before the rising of parliament.

thought there ought to be some means of protection afforded to the British wool-grower, and some tax imposed on the importation of foreign wool, for that purpose. He remarked, that other nations, the least bound by ancient preju- dices, thought such a protection necessary, and referred to the tariff promulgated by the American government, in support of his assertion.

said, there would be no difficulty in shewing, that the object which the hon. member had in view in proposing a tax on the importation of foreign wool would be entirely defeated by the imposition of such a duty. Indeed, a duty of that kind would have just the contrary effect to that which was required. The examination taken before the committee of the House of Lords last year, afforded the best evidence upon the subject. The duty which, within these few years, had been taken off, was not, it should be recollected, one under which the British wool-growers had gained wealth and importance; since it had been imposed only in 1819, by the present lord Bexley, for the purpose of making up a sum of three millions for the support of public credit. With respect to the allusion to the United States tariff, he would wait to see the effect of the principle of that law on American industry before he pronounced an opinion upon it. He must, however, say, that America was the last country to whose mercantile policy he should have expected a reference to be made, particularly by so acute a person as the hon. member.

said, he had merely stated the fact, without pronouncing an opinion with respect to it.

said, that the American tariff could not exclude British manufacturers from America; for, if goods were manufactured more cheaply in this country, they would by smuggling overcome the obstruction offered by the tariff, and penetrate into the northern provinces of America through our colonies.

hastened to disclaim the ground of argument used by his right hon. friend as a motive with the government, while, at the same time, he would admit the correctness of the fact.

rose, to renew the request he had made with respect to the notice standing for that evening relative to East Retford. The bill was now in the hands of the hon. member for Hertfordshire, and he would put it to that hon. gentleman, whether it would not be lost time to continue the proceedings on that subject during the present session? The period was past when any bill could be introduced; and he thought the opinion he had expressed the other night, that the hon. gentleman had better postpone his measure till the next session, was corroborated by the proceedings that then took place, and also by the new shape which the question had assumed by the new bill to be brought in by the hon. member for Hertfordshire. At the same time, he was not insensible to the wish that must naturally be felt by the House, that some end should be put to the discussion this apparently endless question.

agreed with his hon. friend as to the very little hope of carrying any bill through this session; but he could not take upon himself to abandon it, unless it was the general opinion of the House that he ought not to proceed. If his right hon. friend (Mr. Peel) would not think that he acted unfairly towards him, he would acquiesce in the request of the hon. member for Dungarvon.

was of opinion, that there would not be time, during the present session, for carrying through any measure with respect to this borough. In that case, he thought discussion of the subject would be an unnecessary waste of time. He, therefore, as an individual, joined his wish to that of others, that the measure might be postponed to next session.

said, that under these circumstances he had no objection to postpone his motion; at the same time giving notice, that he would bring it forward at an early period next session.

hoped it would, not be understood that this arrangement would leave open the question of the new writ; for certainly if it should be moved this session, he should oppose it.

thought, that some understanding should become to as to that point.

The debate on the motion, "That leave be given to bring in a bill to prevent Bribery and Corruption in the Borough of East Retford," was then adjourned till this day two months.

said, he could not help feeling a great objection to the late financial transaction for funding three millions of Exchequer-bills. It appeared to him to be nothing more than going back to the system of borrowing money to pay off debt. He knew there was great difference of opinion as to the mode in which the surplus revenue should be applied, but he thought that in one thing every body was agreed, and that was, that it was not good policy to borrow money to apply it to the payment of debt. What was the state, of the case? The right hon. gentleman had estimated the surplus revenue of this year at three millions; and wished to pay off three millions of unfunded debt. The way in which he proceeded was, by making a loan in order to purchase the Exchequer-bills, and then, at the close of the year, he applied the surplus of three millions to purchase the stock thus created. He could not go along with the right hon. gentleman in his feeling of injustice in paying off the Exchequer-bills at the premium at which they were sold in the market. The country was bound by its engagements, and so should individuals be bound by theirs to the country. It was easy by giving notice, as in the case of a loan, to obviate any objection on the score of injustice. When so large sum as eighteen millions was subscribed, and the scrip rose to a premium of two and a half per cent, it was evidence of, the facility with which the transaction could be effected. Though he disapproved entirely of this mode of funding Exchequer-bills, he would not apply to it the same expressions which had been made by an hon. member on Friday. He would not apply such terms as "profligate" to what he believed was done for the best. He would not therefore, divide against it.

said, that if he could not convince the noble lord that the bargain was one advantageous for the public, he could but acknowledge the candid and liberal feeling in which the noble lord had stated his objections to it. The bargain, he contended, was a beneficial one for the public. It was doing no more on the part of the country, than an individual would do, who, having a number of bills outstanding and payable on demand, should give for them a mortgage on his property. The debt in either case was not paid, but its nature was changed. If any apprehensions existed at having so large a sum outstanding payable on demand, that apprehension would be removed by this operation of funding, and in the way in which it was done, the country, he would contend, was a gainer; for if, through the increased prosperity of the country, the stock which we had purchased for those bills should rise, we should have, at some future time, to pay 3,600,000l. for it, instead of the 3,000,000l. we now paid; while we could at any time redeem the three millions of Exchequer-bills for their nominal amount. So that if the country, as there was reason to hope, should become prosperous, we should have saved by the transaction 600,000l. So much for the general principle of the measure. Now, as to the payment of the premium, there was, he thought, some misapprehension with respect to it. We were exchanging one kind of security for another, and he thought it but fair to set off the premium in the one case against that in the other. Besides, he thought it would not be just to those who had purchased these Exchequer-bills at a premium, or, in the confidence of their improving value, to call on them to part with them at their nominal value. The practice had been, and he considered it a fair one, in such transactions, to allow the improved value. Under these circumstances, it would have been no advantage to have advertised for competition; for in any case the improved value must be allowed.

said, he concurred in the principle of exchanging unfunded for funded debt, and also in the propriety of allowing the premium; as a reliance on the good faith of government rendered those securities so valuable. It should also be considered, that many of the holders of Exchequer-bills purchased them at a premium. The Bank of England, however, stood in a different situation. They held Exchequer-bills to a considerable amount about 8,000,000l.; and if, as was, he believed, the fact, they took these at par, and without paying any premium on them, they ought not to be allowed the premium in any transaction of this kind. If the Bank were holders of Exchequer-bills to so large an extent, he could not account for the necessity of government sending a broker into the market to purchase stock with any surplus revenue. This machinery might be necessary, if, as in the time of Mr. Pitt, we had a large sinking film; but now that we had not, the more simple, and the less expensive course, when there was a surplus at the end of the quarter, would be to send that surplus to the Bank of England, and get back as many Exchequer-bills as it would cover, and at the price at which they had been issued to it. It was not enough for him to be told by the right hon. gentleman, that the estimates had been reduced. He would go much further: he would say, that the Treasury was imperiously called upon to make a reduction of every species of expense, which was not absolutely necessary for the service of the public. With regard to the commissioners of the Sinking-fund, he would say that those gentlemen, with all their establishment of clerks, &c., were all unnecessary. If some better course was not proposed, it would appear that the system was kept up for the accommodation of the clerks, and not the clerks kept for the good of the public.

said, that the question for the consideration of the House was, first, whether it was expedient to reduce the unfunded debt; and if it should appear that that was expedient, whether the right hon. gentleman had adopted the best possible manner? No one had pressed more upon government than he had the necessity there was of reducing the unfunded debt; and he had the more peculiarly felt the necessity of it, from the circumstance of the Bank of England having issued notes to the amount of nearly twenty millions, on securities unconvertible into cash in a time of danger. This appeared to him to be a very strong reason; because, at such period, the Bank might be called upon very largely for gold, and it was imperatively necessary that it should be prepared. This step, however, had been delayed; and now, therefore, that it was adopted by the right hon. gentleman, he could not but give it his ready concurrence. The next question that he came to consider was, whether the most judicious mode of effecting the arrangement had been adopted. On this subject, the government had been pressed very closely by the Finance Committee and he certainly had thought that the right hon. gentleman had the intention to reduce the unfunded debt by the surplus. This, however, was not the case last year; for the surplus was applied in a most extraordinary way. The sum of 3,441,000l. had been applied to the reduction of the three per cents; by which there had been lost to the country the purchase of annuities to the amount of 120,480l. The right hon. gentleman had, by mismanagement, thrown away 199,000l., between the 5th January, 1828, and the 5th April, 1829. It might be said, in answer to this, that if this sum had been expended on the three and a half instead of the three per cents, the effect would have been to make the former rise in price. He had no doubt that, in such a case, the three and a half per cents would have risen in price; but from this fact the government would also have reaped an advantage, because the only great and real chance which the country had of reducing the debt, was by reducing the interest upon it; and the right hon. gentleman would find, that it would not be in his power to reduce the four per cents, till he had got the three and a half per cents at par.—Having said thus much on the general theory, he would recal the attention of the House to the particular transaction that was now before it. The question was, whether the money had been applied in the best possible manner? He contended that, by applying the money in this manner, there had been lost to the country 435,000l. Let the House take into consideration the average price which government gave for every ten shillings of annuity in the three per cents; the price paid was 14l. 6s. 8d.; but while they bought at this rate, they sold every ten shillings of annuity at the rate of 12l. 10s.; so that here there was a clear loss to the country of 1l. 16s. 8d. on every ten shillings of annuity re-purchased; or upwards of 14l. on every 100l., which, upon three millions, would amount to a loss of about 435,000l. These were facts which were borne out by figures that could not be impeached; and he defied either the chancellor of the Exchequer or the Master of the Mint to deny the result. But it was contended by the right hon. gentleman, that this surplus could not have been dealt with in any other way; because, if the course he proposed were to be adopted, the chancellor of the Exchequer would not have had these three millions at the end of the year. This argument he would answer out of the right hon. gentleman's own mouth; for he himself had stated, that the commissioners had been buying this stock day after day throughout the year. The reason why he contended that there was no necessity that the money should have been expended in the way proposed by the right hon. gentleman was, because he saw three modes by which it might have been got rid of. In the first place, the right hon. gentleman might have made the loan by competition, and received sealed tenders for it; or he might have paid off the Exchequer-bill holder; or he might have reduced the value of the Exchequer-bills ten per cent, from 100l. to 90l., and put them into a wheel, the holders taking their chance of which should come out first. The great point which he wished to urge upon the consideration of the ministers was, whether they ought to persist in this fatal error of buying and selling: by pursuing this course the country had already lost the sum of twenty-seven millions; and he did not make this statement from any calculations of his own, but from figures that had been supplied from the National Debt Office. Dr. Hamilton, in his admirable work, had observed, that if we went on in this way, the loss would not be less than thirty millions; and by this time his prophecy had nearly become true. The Finance Committee had been particularly anxious to get rid of this system; he was, therefore, sorry to find that one of the first acts of the right hon. gentleman was, to continue the same plan. How we were to reduce the taxes with such misappropriation of our resources, he could not discover. He thought the right hon. gentleman should apply all his surplus to the reduction of the unfunded debt, for he must be aware that it was an easy but a dangerous mode of raising money. He would not move the House to reject the present proposition, because the right hon. gentleman had pledged the public faith to it; but nothing short of that solemn engagement could induce him to refrain from dividing the House upon the impolitic arrangement into which he had entered.

said, that from the opposition which the hon. gentleman had shown to the unfunded debt, he should have thought he would have been the last man to reproach the government with pursuing the plan which had been adopted. He should have rather thought that the only accusation which he would have had to make against the chanceller of the Exchequer would have been, that he had done too little; and that instead of his complaining of the application of three millions to this purpose, he would have urged the similar application of a much larger sum. He well remembered that his hon. friend had, on former occasions, eulogized the conversion of a doubtful and uncertain debt into a certain and fixed debt; and certainly no man, when he considered the relative advantage of the two sorts of debts, could hesitate to join in the eulogium pronounced by his hon. friend. That the importance of this point had been felt by the government was apparent from the observation of the late Mr. Canning, who, when stating the necessity of providing for the expenditure, of the country by adding to the unfunded debt of the state, said, that the duty of himself, or of any future chancellor of the Exchequer, would be to watch anxiously for the first occasion of reducing the unfunded debt. It was in compliance with that proposition, which appeared to have the full approbation of the House, that his right hon. friend had adopted the present course; and indeed the present mode went still further than any pointed out by his hon. friend, in giving power to the government to reduce the unfunded debt. An hon. baronet had pointed out to his right hon. friend another fund to which he might have resorted to discharge Exchequer-bills; but the hon. baronet did not bear in mind that this proceeding had not been produced by the application of money. As there was no money, it was necessary to negociate with the holders of these securities, to obtain their consent to transfer their debt from that species of security to another. He wished to remind the House, that the party, who held an Exchequer-bill, by entering into this arrangement, gave up an advantage which he enjoyed at present; namely, the right of having his money paid whenever he pleased. When he had an Exchequer-bill, he had the acknowledgement of a debt from the state, which he had a right to have paid, at his own option. When he agreed to received so much stock for it, he then became a creditor of the state, to be paid no longer at his own option, but at the option of government. The hon. baronet had likewise said, that in this proceeding for the contraction of the unfunded debt we should have applied to the Bank; but without the application of money the Bank could do nothing. The operation of his right hon. friend's plan would give him an opportunity of going much further than gentlemen anticipated. Their plan went to the gradual application of a sum of money to reduce the amount of the unfunded debt in a long course of years: his right hon. friend had contracted, that a sum of money should be applied to it alone, and had thus enabled himself to go further, if he pleased, on any future occasion. Therefore it was, that he thought his right hon. friend stood upon a better principle than they did. In reply to the suggestion which had been made respecting the Bank, it was only right to say, that if we had raised money in the market to pay off Exchequer-bills, it would have been impolitic in government, under present circumstances, to have applied those funds to the discharge of the Exchequer-bills in the hands of the Bank. He believed that government could not have taken any plan which would have created greater inconvenience and apprehension, as to the contraction of the circulating medium. These reasons were conclusive in his mind against any transaction with the Bank, as to the reduction of this amount of the unfunded debt. If ever we should arrive at a period of financial embarrassment, and Exchequer-bills became discredited, the Sinking-fund would be available, and the finance minister would find the advantage of having two strings to his bow, in consequence of the bargain which previously he had made so fairly with the possessors of stock. This very bargain would place the financial system of the country on a much better footing—even as respected the objects recommended by the hon. member for Abingdon—than it would have been had this bargain not been concluded. In the sweeping condemnation of his right hon. friend's financial system, it would be worthy of the attention of the House to observe, that all the calculations of its opponents proceeded on mere arithmetical points; which might be accurate enough in a statement on paper, but which were drawn up entirely without reference to the policy of enforcing or following up such calculations. But there were other considerations to which it behoved a finance minister not to turn an indifferent ear. How came it that, in similar cases, the predecessors of his right hon. friend had pursued exactly the same course, as to the stock in which the redemption of annuity had been made? Why had they purchased into the three per cents in preference to the four or five per cents, as recommended by the hon. member? Be- cause the commissioners for the reduction of the national debt always bore in mind, that the public had contracted 100l. of debt in times of distress in the three per cents., on an advance of 60l., or thereabouts. Nor did they lose sight of the facts, that the highest-priced stock was that which was liable to the greatest contingent loss. Had the principle of the hon. member been acted upon during the war, there could have been no doubt that the most insurmountable obstacle would have presented itself to any financier, to accomplish the reduction of the five per cents, which gave some years ago so much satisfaction. Here was an advantage of that system acted and acting on, which, in point of policy, was far superior to the mere arithmetical advantage to be derived, even by the hon. member's own showing, from purchasing up or redeeming higher-priced stock. In all cases of reduction of interest on stock, or substitution of stock, a bonus was necessarily given, to tempt the stock-holder to subscribe to the newly-created stock. The present bonus, although asserted so roundly to be an injudicious one, was the lowest that ever had been offered in a similar transaction. The profit, in fact, on the sale of this stock, to the amount of 3,000,000l., was 96,000l., all which would redound to the advantage of the public. The hon. gentleman had stated, that the amount of interest payable on the stock so created was increased, but that was merely an increase proportioned to the value of the security so exchanged. Other gentlemen, to his extreme surprise, had objected to it upon grounds which those who argued for extended pecuniary accommodation to the mercantile world would hardly avail themselves of with consistency; because it was well known that to most persons extensively engaged in business, the holding of Exchequer-bills was often a matter of extreme convenience.

was surprised to find his hon. friend's, sentiments so much misrepresented. His hon. friend had, throughout, his speech, urged the necessity of getting rid of the funded debt; but he had at the same time objected, and very properly, to the mode in which it had been attempted to be got rid of in the present instance. It was clear that our situation was very different now, in a financial point of view, from what it is was when it had been the habit to give a bonus on a transaction of this nature. Then our situation was one of such pecuniary embarrassment, that we could not get money without giving a bonus; but, in the present instance, no such necessity existed, for we had actually the money in the Treasury, and it might have been directly employed in extinguishing the debt, on much more advantageous terms to the public. The question was, whether the most advantageous bargain had been made for the public. When 18,800,000l. of bills had been offered, although only 3,000,000l. had been wanted, it was impossible to suppose, that, if the market had been open to fuller competition, a better bargain might not have been made. The right hon. gentleman had himself acknowledged, with reference to the auction bill, that where there was competition, a fair price was always obtained. The Exchequer-bills might have been paid off without funding at all; but having determined to fund, the government had adopted the very worst expedient. He protested against the principle of funding the bills at all, and also against the mode of doing it.

said, that the first question was, whether government ought to have funded any Exchequer-bills at all. He admitted that, in the Finance Committee of last year, the general impression was in favour of reducing the unfunded debt; and to that impression the right hon. gentleman had deferred. He (Mr. Ward) had, however, by no means concurred in it. He thought the unfunded debt most useful and convenient to the public; and he was borne out by the fact, that during the war more than double the amount of Exchequer-bills now out were in circulation, without any inconvenience arising there from, with the exception of the year of panic, and that could scarcely be called an exception, since the panic unhinged every thing. As to the mode in which the transaction had been effected, it was conformable to all example. As to the amount of Exchequer-bills offered, no fair conclusion could be drawn from it. He was persuaded that many of the subscribers tendered four or five times the amount they wished to be taken, that they might have some share in the transaction. When he called to mind, that the whole of the Exchequer-bills in existence amounted only to twenty-eight millions; that some of those bills were in the hands of trustees, who could not tender them; and that the Bank of England held a large portion, he doubted exceedingly if 18½ millions were in the hands of persons by whom they could be offered to government. His opinions with respect to the Sinking-fund were these:—When the minister, during the war, found that he could not raise the necessary supplies within the year, he was compelled to borrow. On borrowing a million instead of providing an interest of five per cent, he provided an interest of six per cent, the surplus one per cent forming a Sinking-fund for the payment of the capital, which, it was calculated, would, by this process, be entirely redeemed in thirty-seven years. Whoever lent money under these circumstances had a favourable chance, in the event of ten or fifteen years of peace, of recovering his capital. He had no doubt that that consideration, and that alone, induced capitalists, in times of peril, to advance money to government by way of loan, instead of employing it in other ways; and it was extremely hard upon them, now that peace was restored, to find that their hopes would never be realized. This was especially the case; as Prussia, France, and America, imitating us in the establishment of a Sinking-fund, had adhered to their engagements. The consequence was, that in Prussia the stock so borrowed was above par; that in France it was above par; and that in America the debt would speedily be paid off entirely. The English fundholder, therefore, had the annoyance of reflecting, that if he had lent his money to foreign powers, instead of to the government of his own country, he would not have seen the Sinking-fund by which it was to be redeemed cut down, first to eight per cent, then to five per cent, now to three per cent; and even that grudged to him, and its continuance made a matter of doubt. What was the resolution agreed to by the House in 1819?—"That, to provide for the exigencies of the public service—to make such progressive reduction of the National Debt as may adequately support public credit—and to afford to the country a prospect of future relief from a part of its present burthens, it is absolutely necessary that there should be a clear surplus of the income of the country, beyond the expenditure, of not less than five millions; and that, with the view to the attainment of this most important object, it is expedient now to increase the income of the country by the imposition of taxes to the amount of three millions per annum." Subsequent governments, however, had not acted upon this resolution, and the fundholders had been deluded. The time might come, when both government and parliament would regret this abandonment of principle. He concurred completely in the chancellor of the Exchequer's view of this part of the subject, and hoped he would persevere in the course which he had chalked out. Of this he was persuaded, that the resources of the country were abundant if the affairs of the country were administered in a plain and intelligible manner.

said, he agreed with the hon. gentleman who had just spoken, that the resources of the country were fully adequate to meet any exigencies that might arise. He agreed also, that no man in his senses could suspect that, in the recent financial operation, government could have any other motive but an anxious desire to consult the public interest. If he understood the present debate, it was a renewal of that of Friday last. It was contended, that inasmuch as three millions of Exchequer-bills had been funded, and inasmuch as there was a surplus revenue of three millions, it would have been more expedient to purchase Exchequer-bills with those three millions instead of funding. It was also contended, that in the mode in which his right hon. friend had made his arrangements, he had failed in the best mode of performing his duty to the public. If it was true that Exchequer-bills were now selling in the public market at a premium of from fifty to seventy shillings; and if it was true that they bore an interest of sixty shillings on every 100l., it would be a strange anomaly, that any person should give a premium of from fifty to seventy shillings for a security payable by government at the end of the year; by which payment that premium would be lost to the holder. He allowed that, by the strict law of the land, Exchequer-bills might be so paid. He allowed that the holders of them would have no remedy, even in a court of Equity. But in fair dealing they would have a right to consider themselves hardly used; and it would not be for the advantage of government, who had so often to rely on its character for good faith, honour, and fair dealings to disregard those considerations, if they did, they would soon repeat it. He there- fore did not concur with those who thought that government would have done wisely if they had made a selection of persons holding Exchequer-bills to the amount of three millions, and paid them off at par, leaving the other holders in their present situation. Still, however, he thought that government might have taken another and a better course. A large quantity of Exchequer-bills had been issued without a premium, and might, therefore, be taken at par. These bills were held by the Bank of England. He thought that many advantages would have resulted from reducing the unfunded debt in the hands of the Bank of England, and that such a proceeding would have been preferable to that which had been adopted. There would not have been a shadow of injustice in paying off at par the bills which the Bank of England had accepted without any premium upon them. His right hon. friends knew that he had long pressed the expediency and importance of the reduction of the amount of unfunded debt in the hands of the Bank, in order to leave their funds more at their own disposal. The hon. member for the city had said, that no inconvenience had arisen from leaving so large an amount of Exchequer-bills in the hands of the Bank, except forsooth at the period of the panic.

observed, that his remark was applied not to the Exchequer-bills in the hands of the Bank in particular, but to Exchequer-bills generally.

begged his hon. friend's pardon. But, supposing the observation to be applied to the amount of Exchequer-bills generally, it might be matter of speculation how for that amount, if it had not produced the panic, had materially aggravated it. Great caution ought to be used to guard against the recurrence of such an evil. It seemed to be forgotten that when, during the war, so large an amount of Exchequer-bills was in circulation, there was a suspension of cash payments; and the Bank was at liberty to limit its issues according to circumstances. If they were to restrain cash payments again, and lock up all the circulating medium, they might have double the amount of Exchequer-bills in perfect security; but they would again involve the country in all those enormous difficulties, the consequences of which the country now felt, and would feel for many years. He should certainly, therefore, have preferred seeing as many of the Exchequer-bills in the hands of the Bank as the surplus would purchase, taken by government; and he would recommend to his right hon. friend, if he proposed at a future period further to diminish the unfunded debt, to do so by tender and open competition; which, he was persuaded, would be the means of obtaining the best terms. He would trouble the House with a single word on another topic; namely, the expediency of the purchase by the commissioners of the Sinking-fund in the three per cents instead of in the three and half. It was clear that by such purchases, a daily loss of interest to the public was occasioned. The debt ought to be looked at not as a capital, but as a great public annuity, which it became government to reduce as much as possible. If the quarterly sum of 360,000l. had been laid out in the three and half per cents instead of in the three per cents, it would have reduced the permanent annuity an additional 650l. That sum, taking the interest at four per cent, was worth 16,000l. This produced a loss of 64,000l. in the year. He repeated that if he might advise his right hon. friends, it would be, with the surplus revenue, to reduce the unfunded debt in the hands of the Bank of England to a certain extent, and subsequently to apply it to the purchase of three and half per cents.

considered that there could not be any dissent from the principles just asserted by the right hon. member for Liverpool. The question appeared to him less one of public faith than of public interest, and he therefore agreed with those who contended, that the 3,000,000l. Exchequer-bills which Mr. Canning had issued should not be funded above par. And for this simple reason, supposing there were no other—the present holders and the original purchasers were not the same persons, the bills having frequently changed hands, like all other government securities in the money market. He also thought it would be wise policy to take up the deficiency bills as well as the Exchequer-bills at par, and thus save the public the bonus at present paid on the one and the 3l. 10s. premium paid on the other. He did not consider that the effect on the currency would be such as the right hon. Master of the Mint had asserted, if the government had taken up the Exchequer-bills of which the Bank were the holders at par, instead of those floating in the money market. In his mind, it would occasion no difference in the amount, and thence in the value of the currency. With respect to purchasing in the three and half instead of the three per cents, he could not see the sacrifice of the public money which some hon. members declared to have arisen from the government's selecting the latter; because the effect of such selection would in a very short time, be to bring the two prices to a relative level. With respect to the impolicy of keeping up a large amount of unfunded debt, he agreed with those who entertained Apprehensions therefrom. The subject was one of great importance, not only in its bearings on our finances, but on the internal and external political relations of the country. In this investigation no precedent should be taken from our financial proceedings in the late long and expensive war; when, owing to the Bank Restriction act, a system of ruinous extravagance was pursued by every successive chancellor of the Exchequer. He lamented, that since that most mischievous act had been repealed, the country had not been more enabled than it had been to apply itself to the reduction of the debt; but much of this was owing to the mock Sinking-fund with which the government had been for years pretending to reduce the debt with one hand, while they were actually adding to it with the other. He was glad that this pretended Sinking-fund system was about to be abandoned. In his opinion, if ever distress or difficulty in the extreme were to fall upon the nation, it would be chiefly attributable to the departure from the principle of Mr. Pitt's Sinking-fund.

The report was brought up, and the resolutions agreed to.

said, that government ought, by every means in its power, to foster, protect, and extend these Fisheries. There were at present fifty-three thousand men employed in open boats in procuring a subsistence by fishing, and if the Fisheries were encouraged, there would be ample employment for the industry of the super-abundant population of Ireland.

The bill was read a second time.

said, he approved of the principle of the bill, and should give it his support, in the belief that the Scotch people were prepared to receive the change; for if they were not, it was useless, as in a country in which the laws and the habits of the people did not suit each, the Judges, as a matter of necessity, assumed the character of legislators. He wished the Scotch law to be assimilated as much as possible to the state of the law of England relating to real property. He objected to some of the machinery of this bill, but he approved of its principle; and he gave notice, that if it did not pass in the present session, he should, on its reintroduction in the next session, move for the insertion of a clause, giving the act a retrospective operation, because otherwise much of the property in the country might be, in the mean time, put into strict settlement, in order to evade the provisions of this act.

said, he would give his assent to the bill, not with a view to change the law of the country, but for the purpose of bringing it back to the state in which the act of 1685 had originally placed it. The law had been, in fact, changed by the operation of circumstances, and somewhat altered by a statute passed in 1770; and he only wanted to bring it back to its original state.

The chairman reported progress, and asked leave to sit again.