said, he felt it to be his duty to call the attention of the right hon. gentleman opposite to the complaints made by a considerable number of persons in Upper Canada. The petition which he had to present was agreed to at a meeting held in York-town, Upper Canada, and was signed by three thousand one hundred and ten persons. The petitioners did not wish the House to interfere by any enactment, but merely to allow them the power of remedying the defects of their own constitution. They prayed for an alteration in their local legislature, which, as dependent on the government, could not hold the balance they were intended to hold between the Crown and the people. They also prayed that the council might be extended, and that place-men might be excluded therefrom. They stated the great grievances which had arisen from judges absenting themselves from their duties, and prayed that leave of absence might not be granted to judges, except upon reasonable grounds; that the judges might be rendered independent of the Crown, and be incapacited from holding other offices. The petitioners complained, too, of the high salaries of public officers. They also prayed for a local and responsible ministry,—not stating very clearly of what kind;—but certainly something more efficient than the council, ought to be provided for them. These were the leading points of the petition. It was necessary for him to state, that there was a technical objection to the reception of this petition; inasmuch as the petitioners referred to a speech delivered in that House by the right hon. member for Liverpool. He thought it right to state this fact; but from the importance of the contents of the petition, and the distance from which it came, he should move that it be brought up.

said, that the petitioners ascribed a great portion of the evils of which they complained to the constitution of the legislative assembly. It did happen that they had on record the opinions of Mr. Fox, Mr. Burke, and Mr. Pitt on this point; and, in whatever other respects they differed, they all agreed that the council should be independent. In Lower Canada, however, out of the twenty-seven members of the council, there were only nine who did not hold lucrative offices under government; and of the majority of eighteen, seven were members of the legislature. These gentlemen divided about 18,000l. of the public money annually. In Upper Canada there were only seven of the council who were not placemen. The judicial system was a question of great delicacy and difficulty; but there could be little doubt, he apprehended, that the judges ought to be independent of the Crown.

said, that if the presentation of a petition presented the proper opportunity of considering the important subjects alluded to, he should the more lament the informality, which he feared was fatal to the petition, because the irregularity applied to himself. The petition represented him as having stated, that the Canadians would consent to their constitution being altered by the Imperial parliament, and that they were willing that their revenues should be controlled and appropriated by the House of Commons. Now he appealed to the recollection of hon. members, and to what were usually considered as the records of what passed in that House, whether he could by possibility have used this language. What he did say was the very reverse; and he was extremely sorry that this misrepresentation should have been circulated in the provinces, where its only effect would be to excite unnecessary alarms.

said, he should make no objection to receiving the petition on the ground of irregularity, for no one could be more fully impressed than he was with the impolicy of throwing any obstacle in the way of a full hearing of any complaint from our distant possessions. He thought that the analogy between this country and the Canadas must be given up. The difference in society was extremely great; and there was in Canada the absence of that class of the community which, in England, was denominated the aristocracy. With respect to the statement of the hon. member, respecting the number of persons in the council who held places, it was perfectly correct; but one of them was the chief justice, and the other the archdeacon of the province. It was thought necessary that a person who was conversant with the laws, and who had to administer them, should be a member of that body. He agreed that the council should be extended; but the difficulty of obtaining persons who were qualified to sit in it, rendered it impossible for the present to exclude from it all official persons. He was of opinion that judges ought not to be in the executive council. That plan had been acted on in the Cape of Good Hope, and it was in contemplation to extend it to other provinces. Many of the complaints in the petition were so vague and general, that he found it impossible to answer them. With respect to the complaint respecting juries, it was competent for the legislature to re- medy any defect in the constitution of them. He would repeat the assurance, that whenever any complaint was brought forward from our colonies, he should always be most happy to attend to it, with a view to its redress.

was sorry to hear the right hon. gentleman state, that the complaints made against the system pursued in the colonies were so vague that he could not comprehend them. The committee, which sat last year on the subject, had come to a very different conclusion. That committee thought that many of the complaints of the petitioners were substantiated by evidence. He thought it due to that committee, to the House, and to the colonies, that the state of Upper and Lower Canada should be taken into serious consideration.

explained, that he only referred to the statements in the present petition, when he said that the complaints against the system pursued in the colonies was vague and not sufficiently specific.

thought, the present a very fit opportunity to discuss the statements contained in the petition, and for the House to hear whether it was the intention of ministers to redress the evils complained of. He certainly expected to hear on the present occasion, whether ministers intended to carry into effect the recommendations of the committee which sat last year. The only one complaint in the petition which was not substantiated, was that against Judge Willis: he therefore thought the government bound to state what they intended to do on the subject. The right hon. gentleman had given no answer to the complaint, that a great many places in the upper House of Assembly were filled by executive officers and by the judges, which he conceived to be a very improper arrangement. The conduct of the lieutenant-governor of Upper Canada had been complained of, and the government had obtained some credit for removing him from his situation; but he thought it was an insult to the colony to remove the lieutenant-governor from his post there, only to appoint him to a higher situation. He hoped that the quotation in the petition of part of a speech delivered in that House would not be considered as a bar to its reception. He thought that that circumstance alone showed the necessity of having some authenticated report of the proceedings of that House. In his opinion the colonies had been misgoverned and ill-used for a number of years, and that the House ought to attend to their complaints.

rose to give notice of a motion on the subject for the 21st instant.

was glad to hear, that a specific motion on this subject was to be brought before the House. Observations such as those made by the hon. member for Aberdeen, tended to create irritation without doing any good whatever. In his opinion the greatest evils arose, not from the legislative councils, but from the undefined rights of the colonists and of the mother country.

said, that, after what had passed, he would withdraw the petition.

rose and said:—^*

^* From the original edition, printed for Ridgway, Piccadilly.

The time, Sir, has at length arrived when I can bring under the consideration of the House the motion of which I gave notice at the early part of the present session. That motion has reference to a subject of vast importance. Indeed I believe there is no question that can now come under the consideration of the legislature of this country, involving greater consequences than the one I am about to submit to the House. Of such vast importance is it, so manifold and weighty are the interests implicated in it, that I own I feel almost appalled at the magnitude of the task I have taken upon myself. But, Sir, when I reflect upon the case I have to submit to your consideration, I feel persuaded its bare statement must make a deep impression, as well on the minds of the members of this House as on the country at large. The facts of it are so startling, the inference from those facts so obvious, and the natural result of such brilliant promise, that it cannot fail of exciting attention. I feel reassured too from the consideration, that I may now hope to receive the assistance of others far better able to place this great question in its true light than myself. However defective my statement may be, therefore, that defect will be amply compensated by the discussion the question will undergo.

I will now proceed without further preface to enter upon this great subject; and in order to do so with as much clearness as possible, I will divide the observations I have to make under the three several heads which appeared in the notice on the order book. That notice was for an inquiry into the trade between Great Britain, the East Indies, and China. I will first apply myself to Great Britain. I think it clear, that whoever considers the situation of this country, not alone at the present moment but during the last eight or ten years, must be convinced that it is one of difficulty; that it requires an investigation into the causes of the perpetually recurring distress to which all interest have been at times exposed; that means should be taken of giving a fuller development to the national resources, and thereby diminishing, if it be not possible entirely to remove, the causes from whence such distress has arisen. My conviction is, that if the subject I am about to introduce is fairly investigated, it will be found to contain more than any other the means of effecting this most desirable object. I do not, Sir, feel that I should be justified on the present occasion in entering minutely into these causes of distress; but I conceive it must be obvious to even a casual observer, that there is at present a large amount of capital in this country seeking investment in every possible direction, reducing by competition profits to the lowest ebb; and that with it is combined a power of production on the most gigantic scale the world ever saw. This may in part account for our distress; but if it does tend to produce it, it also affords the means by which we may greatly extend our national resources, and restore that proportion between production and consumption so essential to a healthy condition of all interests in the country. A larger field for the employment of capital, a greater vent for our manufactures, a wider range for our shipping, are the objects we should aim at; and I greatly err if the extensive countries embraced by my motion do not offer all these advantages in the most ample manner. When I contemplate the condition of Ireland, I feel that here too the benefits of an extension of trade with the East will be largely extended. Sir, by one of the most beneficial alterations ever made in the law of this country, you have in the present session of parliament removed the disabilities under which the great majority of the people of that part of our empire laboured; you have removed the great barrier which hitherto cramped the energies of Ireland; you have opened the door by which prosperity may at length flow into that country; but still something more is wanting. Capacity for employment you have given; but employment itself is still wanted: manufactures wherewith to employ its surplus hands must be established; and what more likely to effect this desirable object than opening so wide a field as the East presents to us? The wants in this case are reciprocal. Ireland wants the teas, the sugars, the cottons of the tropical regions: India requires the cheap manufactures which Ireland aided by English capital may so easily produce. The condition of both parts of our extensive empire would thus be improved, and immense benefit would redound to the whole. Another consideration presses upon our notice, I mean our commercial relations with foreign countries. In several instances these are not on the satisfactory footing we could wish: restrictions have been imposed on our intercourse with them, alike injurious to both the parties concerned. In no case has this more clearly appeared than in our relations with the United States of America. By a recent act, as all know, a new tariff, has there been established, placing all the foreign trade of that country in a state of considerable hazard and jeopardy. The object of the legislature there seems indeed to be to destroy it altogether; and although they may not effect this object entirely, it cannot I think be doubtful but that they have placed it in circumstances of difficulty, the exact nature and issue of which, it is not easy to foresee. Precarious at all events the intercourse between this country and the United States must continue, so long as they persevere in this anti-commercial, restrictive system. Now, Sir, this consideration becomes of more pressing necessity when we reflect that we draw upwards of three-fourths of the raw cotton we consume from that country. Our consumption is estimated at 197,000,000 lbs. and that the United States furnish us with 151,000,900 lbs. It is, Sir, dangerous to depend to such an extent on the supply of an article of paramount necessity in our manufactures, upon a country whose policy exhibits enmity to the true and now generally recognised principles of international intercourse. I do not say we should enter upon any recriminatory system; but I do say sound policy dictates that we should, if possible guard against the contingencies to which such erroneous views on the part of the United States may expose us. If, as I shall be able to show, cotton to any extent and of the best quality may, under the influence of British capital and skill, be produced in our own dominions in the East Indies, I think it will be obvious that sound policy would dictate our removing whatever impediments may be found to its cultivation.

Having stated generally the grounds on which I think an extension of the trade with the East would be beneficial to this country, I will proceed to consider what that trade actually is, what it has been, and what under different circumstances it may be expected to be. Sir, it is no longer necessary I should enter into any argument to show that the Indian trade is one of great value: the history of the last ten or twelve years abundantly testifies to that fact. It is however curious and instructive to look back upon the predictions so confidently uttered by the advocates of the company at the renewal of the last charter upon this trade, and to trace, not their fulfilment, but their entire and most triumphant refutation. At that time gentlemen of distinguished talent, of great experience, and of the highest character, gave the most unpromising evidence upon this subject. In their apprehension it was a gross delusion, a sanguine theory, a wild speculation, to look for any extension of trade with the East Indies. One gentleman thought it possible a few glass bottles might be sent; another asked how it could be conceived, that in a country where the wages of labour did not generally exceed three pence per day, the costly manufactures of this country could find a vent? These gentlemen however knew trade only when cramped by monopoly fetters, not when expanding with the buoyancy of freedom. They judged correctly according to their experience. The East-India Trade in their hands had not indeed in creased, it had been attended with no profit, it held out no prospect of future improvement. It appears, that between 1793 and 1813 the Company had sustained a loss of 4,000,000l. in their trade; and this they boasted of as a signal instance of patriotism and self-devotion to the interests of the country. Judging from this, and from the constant declension of the trade in their hands, it is not to be wondered at they should view as sanguine theory any contemplated increase of the trade with the East. From a parliamentary document, the Indian trade, estimated in official value, exhibits the following results. From 1790 to 1813, there was a gradual falling off; and from 1814 to the period in which I speak, there has not been a gradual, but a most rapid increase. An annual average, taken in periods of five years, will show this clearly.

This was the period of monopoly: let us now contrast it with that of free trade.

The increase thus shewn is perhaps greater than was ever before experienced in so short a period. Some of the details of this trade are singular. The total amount of manufactured cotton exported in 1814 was 818,203 yards; in 1828 it rose to 43,500,000 yards. The value in 1814 was 90,000l.; in 1828, notwithstanding a great fall in the price of all manufactured commodities, it amounted to 1,900,000l. The white cottons exported to the. East Indies in 1814 were 213,208 yards; in 1828, 23,349,000 yards. The printed cottons in 1814 were 604,800 yards; in 1828, 12,372,379 yards. In the article of cotton twist, a trade which has lately grown up, the increase is equally striking. In 1814 the quantity exported to the East Indies amounted only to 8 lbs.; in the present year it has increased 4,497,015 lbs.

Having stated these facts, I think I have sufficiently proved that our commerce with the East Indies has greatly increased since the commencement of the free-trade, and that strong grounds exist for an inquiry whether it may not be further extended. My own conviction is, that immensely as this trade has increased, we as yet know nothing of the extent to which under a less restrictive system it may still be carried. It is the opinion of every intelligent individual who has had means of information, that there is no assignable limit to our trade with the East, provided a profitable investment for a return cargo could be procured in India. There is no prejudice or unwillingness on the part of the natives to consume our manufactures: the extent of the demand is only limited by the power of payment. This brings me to the imports from India, which in official value were as follows:—

The disproportion in the increase of the export trade as compared with the import is remarkable: in the former there appears an increase in the year 1827 over that of 1814 of nearly fourfold, while the imports of 1827 only exceed those of 1814 by about twenty-five per cent. This is partly to be accounted for by the stationary nature of our trade with China, from whence so large a portion of these imports is drawn in the shape of tea: but it is also to be accounted for by the circumstance of the productions of India being at present of a very inferior description to similar products imported from other countries, where more capital and skill are employed in their cultivation.

This rule holds good in every instance of the productions of the soil of India, with the exception of indigo; and the exception in this, as in so many other cases, proves the rule. Indigo is an exception solely because British skill and capital are employed in its, cultivation and preparation for the market. About forty-six years ago the experiment was tried of placing it in the hands of Europeans, and the result has been most satisfactory. East-India indigo, previously a very inferior product, hardly saleable in Europe, is now become superior to that produced in any other part of the world. It is more valuable than the indigo of South America by twelve and a half per cent; and not only this country but all Europe is now chiefly supplied with this important drug from the East Indies. The quantity of indigo imported into Great Britain in 1800 was 3,750,734 lbs.; in 1827 it was 9,683,626 lbs. There can be little doubt that were British subjects permitted to hold lands in India, and their property rendered secure, the same effect would be produced in all other articles of tropical production that has manifested itself in the one above alluded to. The soil and climate of India are eminently favourable to their growth, and nothing is wanted but the capital and skill which this country can supply. The wages of labour too are very low. From all this it is probable, that not only would the quantity of these products be large and of good quality, but that they would be produced at a very cheap rate. In the article of cotton this would equally be shown as in others. The cotton now brought from India is of an inferior description; no attention is paid to its cultivation, no care shown in selecting and changing the seed, and in introducing the best varieties of this useful plant: its growth is therefore neglected, and its preparation for the market is conducted after a rude and unskilful process: still the quantity imported has considerably increased. In 1814 the quantity imported was 3,750,734 lbs.; in 1827, 32,339,282 lbs. The value of this cotton is considerably less than that from the United States and other parts of the world; in some cases it is inferior by a hundred per cent.

The next point to which I will refer is sugar. The sugar cane is grown in all parts of India, and a large quantity might be drawn from thence, provided its manufacture were improved. The quantity imported in 1814 was 49,849 cwt.; in 1828, 516,831 cwt. But of this quantity there was imported from the Mauritius no less than 360,570 cwt. Thus a small island, with a soil not remarkable for fertility, exported far more of this commodity than the whole continent of India. The reason is clear: the sugar cultivation of the Mauritius is under the management of Europeans, while that of India is left to the rude culture and unskilful preparation for the market common to all articles left in the hands of the but half-civilized natives. Nothing can be more rude than an Indian sugar mill: while to the Mauritius there have been sent from this country during the last few years no less than two hundred sugar mills, with steam engines for the greater number.

Another important product of India is raw silk. India is the native country of the insect from whence this valuable commodity is drawn: but it is in a comparatively rude state, and very inferior to that produced in Italy. The price of Indian silk is 18s. per lb., while Italian sells for 28s. per lb. The Indian silk cannot be employed in the finer description of goods, but is largely used in the manufacture of the coarser sorts, where from our possession of the raw material we enjoy a superiority over our competitors on the European continent There is no reason to doubt, that all that is wanted to make silk a staple manufacture in this country, is to allow the raw material to be improved as it might be in India: it would then equal, if it did not surpass the European commodity, and afford ample employment to the throwster as well as the silk manufacturer of this country, now unfortunately suffering so much depression. It is highly probable too that India and China would afford an ample market for the sale of the silk manufactured in Great Britain, the raw material of which it had before supplied. The quantity of raw silk imported from the East Indies and China in 1814 was 1,116,113 lbs.; in 1828, 1,447,549 lbs.

I now approach another and most essential part of my subject, I mean the permission to British subjects to settle in India. The House is aware that at present a great jealousy exists upon this point. No person is allowed to proceed to India without a license; and an European is liable at any moment to be deported thence at the arbitrary will of the rulers of that country, without trial, without reason assigned for such a harsh proceeding. Neither can an Englishman possess or occupy lands, except within the boundaries of the three presidencies, without permission of the ruling powers, a permission rarely obtained, and, subjected as it is to such restrictions not very frequently solicited. If we were to adopt the more generous and wiser policy of allowing Europeans to settle in the country, to possess and occupy lands, and to enjoy security for their property, there can be no question that we should confer greater real benefits on the people of that country than by any other system of policy we could adopt. India, I repeat, is highly gifted by nature in soil, in climate, and in situation: it is extensively peopled; but it is a poor country from wanting capital skill, and incentives to industry: these would be furnished, and they can only be furnished by allowing the knowledge, the civilzation, and the improvements in the arts, now so largely enjoyed by Europeans, to be introduced and domiciliated amongst them. Had the capital sent out some few years ago to South America, the issue of which has been so disastrous to the individuals who possessed it, been sent to India, as without these absurd and mischievous regulations it probably would have been; and had the English government in India but permitted the same superintendence to be exercised in its expenditure, which the South American governments not only tolerated but encouraged, there is reason to believe more would by that single act have been done to improve India than by all the acts of the Company's government from the earliest period of their rule to the present moment. Then shall we only really know the benefits of India and the extent to which our commerce with that country can be extended, when we have altered this most vicious and ludicrous policy, if policy that can be called which proposes to itself, not to introduce knowledge, but to perpetuate ignorance; not to fertilize the soil, but to curse it with perpetual sterility; not to stimulate exertion and sharpen ingenuity, but to paralyze the arm and brutalize the mind; not to enrich but to impoverish; not to render your government popular by the benefits you confer, but odious by the exactions you impose upon the people. And for what is it you adopt this system; to protect the people? No, but to preserve monopoly: the origin, the sum, and substance of the whole scheme is this. Nothing in nature is so abhorrent to a monopolist as a competitor not shackled by the fetters he has imposed on himself: it is not only that he loses by the competition in a pecuniary sense, but the pride, the importance, the self-conceit, inseparable from extensive monopolies, are all wounded in the conflict; the pretence of national benefit arising from the monopoly (a plea never wanting) is completely destroyed. The monopolist, stripped of all his gorgeous but borrowed plumes, stands forth in his true character, an enemy to justice, a spoiler of other men's wealth, a destroyer of national resources, a contemner of the rights and liberties of the people. A slight inquiry into the history of British India will at once convince us that the system I am now discussing arose entirely from the anxiety on the part of the East-India Company to protect their monopoly. The very name by which they designated all Europeans not in their service is at once a satisfactory proof—they called them interlopers. I am not prepared to contend that the policy was either unwise or inconsistent, so long as monopoly really did continue the principle upon which the government of India was conducted. I believe that some such power was necessary to secure the monopoly system but it is not now a question whether that principle should be persevered in: it was abandoned in 1813, when the present charter was granted, and it would be as absurd and inconsistent to continue a system, calculated only for the monopoly principle, when you had determined on substituting freedom of trade in its room, as it would have been unwise to have admitted freedom of resort to India when monopoly was your rule and principle of government, and when exclusion was essential to its maintenance. If I were a friend to monopoly instead of being its most inveterate opponent, I should say, banish every free trader from the limits of your charter, burn his ships, rifle his property, ruin his family; you would thus only follow out your own principle, and act consistently at least if not justly; but now that you admit freedom of trade, to continue this system of exclusion is utterly at variance with the principle of your government: it is one of those half measures which are ever as injurious in commerce as in politics; it is keeping the word of promise to the ear and breaking it to the sense; it is holding out to India as well as to Great Britain the prospect of a golden harvest, but which you take special pains shall not remain till the time of harvest to fill the stores and gladden the heart of the husbandman, whose hopes you have awakened only the more cruelly to disappoint them.

It is alleged this is necessary, as well to preserve your empire in India, as to protect the natives of that country: but how strange and anomalous is such a policy. Where was it ever before adopted? To what other country would you venture to apply it even in argument, except to India? What would any gentleman in this House say to such an argument if applied, for instance, to Ireland? Why I suspect he would turn away, with contempt and ridicule from such a reasoner. And how, permit me to ask, can that be true with regard to India which is not only utterly false but contemptibly ridiculous when applied to any other country or people under the sun? Was it by preventing Roman citizens from settling in the distant provinces, and carrying with them their arts, their capital, their skill, their literature, and their energy, that Rome became the mistress of the civilized world, and preserved her dominion so long? No, but by not only permitting but encouraging colonization throughout the whole range of her empire. Is it by a similar cramped and wretched policy that Russia holds together the greatest empire the world ever witnessed? No, but by pushing forth its colonial outposts, if the expression may be allowed, in all directions, occupying the intermediate ground, raising the natives in the scale of civilization, and imparting to them the whole of the knowledge, the arts and sciences, of which Russia herself is possessed. So far am I from thinking any strength or permanency is afforded to our Indian empire from this policy, that I feel convinced, the very reverse is the case. At present we hold India by a single thread: allow settlement by Englishmen in India, you convert the tie from the single thread into a cable composed of millions of those threads. Each may be snapt as under by the storm; both may, and in all human probability will, be in time worn out by friction; but the probable duration of the latter would be increased just in proportion to the accumulation of material and the elements of adhesion you employed in its construction. You now govern India by the sword, and that sword wielded by the natives. Attachment to you as rulers no one pretends to say exists; benefit you have not conferred upon any class; wealth your have not poured into the country, but extracted with all the force of the fiscal screw from it; and unhappily for India, while you exclude European skill generally from her fields, you introduce it in all its perfection in the construction of that most powerful engine; nay you avail yourselves of Indian extortion to render still more effectual the deadly skill of the European Minister of Finance.

Under these circumstances, had you not to deal with a people peculiarly submissive to their rulers, it is probable your empire would not be of any lengthened duration; and it is obviously exposed to contingencies the greater in proportion to the slight hold, you have over the country, and the ignorance you are in respecting the habits, feelings, and modes of thinking of the natives. That this is the case we have the direct testimony of one of the ablest among the many able individuals who have afforded their talents to the Company's governmental—I mean sir H. Strachey, who thus describes the situation we stand in towards the natives:—"We cannot study the genius of the people in its own sphere of action. We know little of their domestic life, their knowledge, conversation, amusements, their trades, castes, or any of those national and individual characteristics which are essential to a complete knowledge of them. Every day affords us examples of something new and surprising; and we have no principle to guide us in the investigation of facts, except an extremes diffidence of our opinion, a consciousness of inability of judge of what is probable or improbable."—Again he says—"The evil I complain of is extensive, and I fear irreparable. The difficulty we expedience in discerning truth from falsehood among the natives, may be ascribed, I think, chiefly to our want of connection them to the peculiarity of their manners and habits, and their excessive ignorance of our character, and our almost equal ignorance of theirs."

The evil thus complained of, and from whence there flows, amongst other injurious consequences, a difficulty amounting in some cases to an impossibility in detecting crime and doing justice between the parties seeking adjustment of their claims in your Courts of law, is as he says, irreparable under the present system, and can only be remedied by such an intimate admixture between the native population and Englishmen as would arise from the permission to settle in the country. A cheaper and more efficient administration of the laws would result from it, mutual interests would beget purity of feeling, and the good to be found in the character of each nation would be unfold to the other. In this way only can any permanent hold ever be obtained of the country, or will it be possible to introduce those improvements which a beneficent government would wish to carry into effect and which are now so much wanted in our Indian empire.

I proceed now to the last point of our discussion—I mean the trade with China. Gentlemen are aware that this is now a strict monopoly in the hands of the East-India Company. They have by then Charter the exclusive right of trading with that immense empire, containing one hundred and fifty millions of inhabitants and from whence so important an article of our consumption as tea is exclusively drawn. It is singular, that in the earlier stages of the intercourse of Europeans with that quarter of the globe, none of that extreme jealousy which now marks the conduct of the Chinese and other nations similarly situated appears to have existed. In the seventeenth century there were four ports instead of one open in China for foreigners: the empire of Japan was also open, as well as the Eastern Archipelago, Cochin China, and Siam; and it was not until the different nations of Europe had shut up the trade with these countries in the hands of companies, that the present jealous exclusion was adopted by these Asiatic governments.

The object of monopolists is always if possible to buy under and sell above the market price, and by the power they often possessed of excluding free competition they were able at times to effect this object. They were haughty too and overbearing in their carriage, their ships were armed, their officers in uniform, and demeaning themselves more as naval commanders than as captains of merchantmen. The natives were, and felt themselves to be, inferior in the arts of war, and consequently stood in awe of these formidable traders: add to which, the jealousies and constant conflicts between the rival European companies, entailing injury upon the natives they drew into their quarrels or cramping their trade by their unjust appropriations of parts of it to themselves, together with perpetual attempts to grasp at territory and to establish their dominion in the country where they had obtained it; these circumstances sufficiently account for the restrictions imposed by the natives in their intercourse with Europeans. Japan has now for upwards of a century and a half entirely closed its ports, except to the miserable remnant of a Dutch factory, which is still tolerated, more as it would. appear to prove how much humility can be extracted from Dutch cupidity than with any view of allowing them to carry on a beneficial trade. From Siam and Cochin China, Europeans are almost entirely excluded; and with the great empire of China, as is well known, the intercourse is confined to the single port of Canton, and placed under the superintendence of the Hong merchants. This slight sketch, which shows clearly the injury ever inflicted on commerce by monopoly, and the superior benefits of free trade, the valuable work of Mr. Crawfurd on the Eastern Archipe- lago has enabled me to give; a work alike distinguished for the information it affords, as for the interesting and entertaining nature of its general contents: and here, Sir, having mentioned Mr. Crawfurd, I cannot resist the temptation I feel to express the obligation, not I only, but the country too, in my opinion, is under to him for the great light he has thrown by his researches upon the whole of this question.

The China trade, then, is exclusively in the hands of the East-India Company. Let us see whether it is a prosperous one, in so far as the export of British produce is concerned. Has it increased or diminished? Official documents must answer this question:—

The average of the two last years is 678,654l., exhibiting a falling-off, as compared with the first period, of somewhere about forty per cent. It is true that this is declared, or real, not official value; and that as manufactured articles have recently fallen in value, owing partly to the fall in the value of the raw material, partly to the improvement in machinery, and partly also to the altered value of our currency, this exhibits a greater falling-off than has actually taken place. But after making ample deductions on these heads it will still be found, that in the hands of the East-India Company the export of British produce to China has considerably declined within the few last years. I am well aware, that until the expiration of the Charter we cannot other than by agreement with the East-India Company make any alteration in the mode of conducting this trade; but surely the facts I have stated, render an early and most searching inquiry indispensable. When the immense population of this vast empire is considered, when we reflect that it stretches to the fifty-third degree of north latitude; that the Chinese require warm clothing, and have nothing resembling our woollen manufacture; that they are eminently a commercial people, anxious to purchase their commodities in the cheapest market, and possessed of none of the recent improve- ments by which Europeans have, by abridging hand-labour, so greatly reduced the value of manufactured articles; and when it is further considered, that from that country we are supplied with an article of consumption in general use amongst the whole population of this empire, and that the quantity of tea annually consumed might easily be doubled or trebled provided its price were reduced;—I say, when all these things are taken into consideration, it is not extravagant to assume, that an export trade now limited to six or 700,000l. might be extended to some millions. I am aware it will be urged, that the Chinese are a jealous people, with whom it is difficult to trade, as is evinced by their confining their foreign trade to one port, and putting it under the superintendence of the Hong merchants; and that the skilful management and great importance of the Company's factory are necessary to preserve it. This I believe to be a great fallacy. Mr. Milburne, in his valuable work on Oriental Commerce, says—"The commerce of Canton, immense as it is, is carried on with astonishing regularity, and in no part of the world is business transacted with so much ease and dispatch."

The Americans find no difficulty in carrying on their free trade with China, supplying not only the United States but all the world, except Great Britain, with Chinese produce, and importing even British manufactures into Canton. Their trade has speedily grown up to one of great importance. The amount of it, as given in evidence before the Lords' committee, 1821, is as follows:—

The only reason why this trade is not carried much further is, that tea does not in the United States, as here, enter into the daily consumption of the entire population.

The willingness of the Chinese to consume European manufactures is again evidenced by the overland trade the Russians carry on with the north-eastern parts of that empire through the emporium of Krachta. The following extracts from Mr. Tate's evidence given before the Lords' Committee in 1821 are highly important as bearing upon this point:—

"Articles of British manufacture are suitable for the consumption of the northern provinces of China; and in spite of every obstacle they have found their way to that distant country by an overland journey of upwards of five thousand miles, a part of which is through regions where there are neither roads nor inhabitants." He adds, "coarse woollens worth 4s. or 5s. per yard and Manchester velveteens, formed a part of these exports." "Manchester velveteens, sold in London in 1820 at from 2s. to 2s. 2d. per yard, were resold to the Chinese at from 8s. 6d. to 9s. per yard." "An article costing at Krachta 8s. 6d. per yard might be delivered by sea in the northern parts of China at 2s. 6d." "The total quantity of European manufactures bartered at Krachta in 1820 was in value, 1,000,000l.^*"

I conceive therefore that there is every reasonable ground for expecting, that under a system of free trade a very large vent for the manufactures of this country might be found in China, and that the peculiar habits of the Chinese would interpose no effectual bar to this trade. But granting, for the sake of argument, there was a difficulty in carrying on a trade direct with Canton, I am inclined to believe that it would only throw it into the channel now opened in the eastern Archipelago by our thriving settlement of Sincapore; and nothing perhaps proves more decidedly the value and extent of the trade in this part of the world than the rapid growth of the emporium I now allude to.

Mr. Crawfurd's account of it is—"But perhaps the most remarkable example we have of the success of free trade is exhibited in the history of the little settlement of Sincapore, a barren islet, and having only the advantage of a convenient locality. In the commencement of the year 1819, not ten acres of the primeval forest which covered it was cleared, and its whole inhabitants consisted of about three hundred beggarly Malays, not only possessing no industrious habits, but notorious and dangerous pirates. We have before us the accounts of its exports and imports for the year ending the 30th of April 1828, and find that their joint amount was 2,875,800l.: the exports alone amounted to 1,387,201l.; that is to say, they exceeded the declared value of the exports of the East-India Company from the whole United Kingdom to all India and China in the corresponding year by 88,608l., giving the Company the advantage of all their civil and military stores, but observing on the other hand, that they did not contribute a shilling towards the amount of the Sincapore exports. Our whole trade to the straits of Malacca in 1814 was short of 1,000,000l.; at present it considerably exceeds 4,000,000l."

^* By recent accounts from St. Petersburgh' the consumption of tea in Russia is estimated at 25,200,000lbs.; so that Russia next to ourselves is the greatest consumer of tea. Besides Krachta, a trade has been recently opened with China at two other posts on the frontier.

In addition to this it is to be observed, that amongst the ships touching at Sincapore are Chinese junks: in 1826 they amounted to ten, and a part of their cargo was tea, which they imported in that year to the extent of 323,913lbs.; thus a direct trade has already commenced between China and Sincapore, and there can be no doubt that it might be increased to any extent which our trade with China might require.

It is to be remarked, that tea is not the produce of the province where Canton is situated, but of two maritime provinces to the northward of it. The black tea is grown in the province of Fokein, and the green in that of Kiangnan; but a small part is now sent from either province by sea to Canton: the black tea is carried on the back of Porters over a chain of mountains surrounding Fokein, and the nearest place of its growth to Canton is upwards of five hundred miles. The green-tea district is seven or eight hundred miles distant from it, but there is I believe inland navigation nearly the whole way; that, however, which is clear is, that the tea might be sent by sea direct from the province where it is grown to Sincapore, and sold at least as cheap there as it now is at Canton.

There is one other point which I must not omit—it is the price at which the Company sell their tea to the people of this country. Not only are we greatly injured in a commercial sense by their, rigid monopoly with China, but we are also taxed to the amount of about 2,000,000l. a year in the shape of the extra price they oblige us to pay for the tea we consume. The following is the account of the sale of tea at the India House in 1828:

It is however asserted, that the quality of the Company's tea is better than that sold on the continent. It may be so to a trifling extent, but I believe this is by no means certain; and making every reasonable allowance for the difference of quality, the extra charge on account of the East-India Company's monopoly will not much (if it does at all) fall short of my estimate. Now it is remarkable, that it is only since the passing of the last charter that this power of overcharge has existed—since the 18th George 2nd. Until that period there had always existed a most wholesome provision of law, by which the lords of the Treasury were empowered to admit an import of tea from the continent of Europe, whenever it should appear the price of the company's tea was higher than that sold in other countries, This law was renewed by several acts, and even so recently as the year 1822; and a legal doubt may still exist whether it was repealed by the charter of 1813. I fear, however, the words of the clause in that charter relating to the trade in tea are too strict to admit of our now acting upon this most wholesome provision of law. However that may be, its principle is too just ever to be lost sight of, and at the earliest possible period the country ought to demand justice upon this head.

I believe I have now gone through the main points of my case. My object has been more to give an outline of it than to weary the House by entering too minutely into detail upon it. It only remains for me to remind the House of the immense opening afforded to our trade by the adoption the principle of free trade in the extensive regions to which my motion has reference—regions embracing a population of at least three hundred millions, all anxious to consume our manufactures, provided only we take their products in return: a population placed precisely in a condition, and living in a climate which would render a trade with them the most natural and the most beneficial to this country. I would too implore the House to reflect, that a duty is imposed upon the legislature of this country to take into its serious consideration the state of its immense empire in the east, to see how best the condition of its subjects can be ameliorated, and in what way we may most easily confer upon them the blessings of English justice and English civilization; in what manner we can the most effectually augment their wealth and extend their commerce. I feel assured that the only practicable mode in which these great objects can be accomplished is by placing our commercial relations with them on a footing of perfect freedom and equality.

said, he did not rise to follow the hon. gentleman through the able and elaborate detail into which he had gone on this important subject, but to express a hope, that, under all the circumstances of the case, and even from his own view of it would not press the appointment of the committee at present. The hon. gentleman had most justly stataed, that the question was one of the highest importance, as being a branch of that which must ere long come before the House, involving as it did the interests of millions rover whom our power extended in India. But in proportion as the hon. gentleman himself admitted this importance, so must he also admit, that any investigation with respect to it should be complete and impartial,;—that an opportunity should be given of having the best evidence with respect to it; but if they commenced the inquiry at the present period of the session, they would disable themselves from coming to such a result, as would be satisfactory to those whose interests the hon. member advocated. He would put it to the hon. member whether at the present period of the session, they could advance a single step which would be satisfactory, — whether they could hope, amidst the conflicting evidence which must be offered, to come to any definite result, on any one part of the question; whether they could get through a tithe of the evidence which would be offered, and which they must examine; before they made their report. He put it to the hon. member, whether it was possible for him, considering this question either as a question of trade, or as a question of politics, or as a question of trade and of politics united, to do more this session, if a committee were granted him, than lay-down for the House certain principles on the subject, according to the partial views of such witnesses as the com- mittee might have time to examine, rather than a fair picture of the considerations by which the question ought to be governed, and into which the House must enter without reserve, if it intended to come to a just decision. But, when he advised the House not to appoint the committee which the hon. member for Bridgenorth recommended, he begged it to be understood, that he did not give that advice from a feeling that it was not necessary that inquiry should be made into all the objects which the motion of the hon. member embraced. On the contrary, he admitted that not only all the objects which the hon. member had embraced in his elaborate statement, but also many others which he had omitted, were deserving of minute and general inquiry; and if he advised the non-adoption of the hon. member's proposition at present, it was because he thought that the House could make the inquiry more creditably to itself, and more advantageously to the country, by adopting the view which he took of the mode in which the inquiry should be conducted. It was his opinion, that as a necessary preliminary to that inquiry, it was requisite for the House to have before it a certain quantity of documentary evidence. It was necessary, for the information of those gentlemen who might be appointed members of such a committee, that some principles by which their inquiries might be governed should be laid before them, in order that they might make themselves previously masters of the subject, and so conduct the proposed investigation with effect. It was the intention of his right hon. friend, the president of the Board of Trade, had he not been prevented by indisposition from attending in his place that evening, to have moved, and he believed he might state, that it still was his right hon. friend's intention, in the course of the present session, to move, for the production of that documentary evidence, which appeared to be indispensable as a preliminary to that inquiry, which all concurred in thinking to be necessary. So far from deprecating inquiry, government was most anxious to enter upon an inquiry, embracing all the topics to which the hon. member had adverted, at an early period of the next session, when the House would be in a situation to conduct such an inquiry with effect. The House would therefore see, that the question between the hon. member and himself was, not whether inquiry should take place or no, but whether that inquiry should be conducted by a committee to be appointed now, or by a committee to be appointed at the commencement of next session, after the production of a quantity of documentary evidence. Between these two courses, he could not hesitate as to which he ought to follow; and he was almost of opinion that, after the statement which he had made, the hon. member would be inclined to acquiesce in his views; for exactly in proportion as the hon. member deemed this to be a subject of weight and importance, was he bound to adopt that mode of inquiry which would be most general and comprehensive. When he looked to the course of proceeding adopted by the House in previous instances, he found, that there was no occasion for acting with the haste which the hon. member proposed. When the charter was renewed in 1794, the inquiry into the propriety of the renewal did not commence till the year 1793. Again, when the charter was renewed in 1814, the inquiry did not commence till the year 1813. We were now in the year 1829 deliberating on the question of the government of India; and yet until the year 1834 the government of that country must remain on its present footing. The first thing which parliament would have to decide upon would be a notice to the East-India Company. That notice must be given three years before the expiration of the charter; and as the charter did not expire till 1834, that notice need not be given till 1831. Now, he thought that an inquiry commenced in the beginning of the session 1830 would be adequate to give the House all the information that would be necessary to enable it to decide on the preliminary points, whether in the year 1831 notice should be given to the East-India Company that the term of their charter and their exclusive trade should cease and determine within the next three years. These were the principal grounds on which he intended to move the previous question on the motion of the hon. member. In doing so, he begged that it might be understood, that he was far from disregarding the weight of the arguments which the hon. member had addressed to the House, and that nothing was further from his intention than to adopt a course which was disrespectful to him. It was impossible to have heard the speech of the hon. member without feeling a respect for the ability which characterized it. It was a statement conveying great information, combining a number of most useful details, and couched in a tone and temper which he might hold out as a model for the imitation of hon. members on a question calculated to excite so much feeling as the present. He was most anxious to go into the inquiry. He was likewise anxious that such inquiry should be most comprehensive, general, and effective; and therefore it was, that he moved the previous question.

said, he agreed with his right hon. friend, the chancellor of the Exchequer, that this was a question not only of the highest importance to the commerce and manufactures of this country, but also a question involving interests far higher than those of mere commerce and manufactures. It was a question to give to the East-India Company. It was a question also, the decision of parliament upon which would involve the happiness and the tranquillity of the millions of subjects who in that country looked up to us for protection. All these considerations rendered it necessary that the House should proceed to inquire into the subject, with a full consideration of the awful responsibility which would rest upon it, for every decision which it might make upon the different bearings of this question. He felt thankful to his right hon. friend for the assurance which he had given to the House, that this inquiry should be gone into fully, fairly, and deliberately, at an early period of the next session. He also felt thankful, that there would emanate from that quarter, from which it was always fitting that such information should emanate, a valuable mass of documentary information to guide their inquiries.

At the same time he must say, that notwithstanding the speech of his right hon. friend, he could not see that there was any reason which should prevent the House from entering into inquiry at the present moment. If we were to appoint a committee now, these advantages would arise from it: first of all, the members of the committee would be forced to know how serious, extensive, and important was the duty imposed upon them. They would have all the advantage of the recess to direct their studies so as to enable them, if the committee were renewed in the next session, to discharge in a more efficient manner the duty devolved upon them by the House. It had been stated, that among the other questions which that duty would call upon them to decide, were questions connected with the happiness of India, and with the security of our possessions in that quarter of the globe—questions of settlement, questions of commercial policy, questions of civil policy, in all the different views in which the administration of a great empire could be considered. Considerations like these imperatively called upon parliament to look into this subject; and therefore, if they were to begin their inquiry into it at this early period, even admitting that they were not bound to come to a decision before the close of four years, they would not be able to conclude it if they conducted it properly, in the course of the next session. It was an inquiry more complicated, more various, more extensive, than any into which the House bad ever yet embarked. He was sure there would be no dissatisfaction in the country if the committee were now to sit for a month—if it were then to report, that it had commenced its inquiries, that it had sent queries on important points out to the East, and that it had called for a mass of documentary evidence, which could only be procured from a distance, and if it were then to recommend to the House to consent to its being revived in the next session.

Whilst he stated, that the appointment of a committee this session would be productive of such advantages, and not only of such advantages, but of this further advantage, that it would be an intimation to all parties who felt an interest in this question, that parliament had determined to direct its attention to it, and a formal invitation to them, if they had any information to give, to come forward and give it—he was not inclined to overvalue the importance of beginning inquiry either in the present or in the ensuing session of parliament. He should be satisfied, if, in an inquiry of such importance, the subject should be brought forward by those who were responsible for the administration of England and of India—he meant by members of the government—under the direction of the ministers of the Crown, and in conformity with the course which they recommended as the most efficient. For these reasons, not wishing to enter at present into any parts of this extensive question, thinking, at the same time that all questions relating to the future political administration of India should be care- fully distinguished from those questions which were mixed up with the commercial pursuits of the company, knowing that all the interests of the country were involved in difficulty, and must be well weighed before the House could decide that no settlement or no colonization should take place in India, (and on that point he would say that there must be some change, if we did not wish to lose India). Looking at the character, the habits and the prejudices of the natives of that large continent, he would say, that we could not apply to it the ordinary principles of colonization, nor deal with it as with a country which we occupied for the first time. Matters like these must go through a committee; and he would even say, that the judgment of the committee upon them must not be considered as binding upon parliament.

For his own part he would own, that so far as his own inquiries and reflections had gone, he could not see the possibility of reconciling, to the degree which he could wish, the commercial interests of England with the administration of the political affairs of India by a company of merchants who were engaged in the commerce of the country, over which they exercised sovereign rule. He thought that the principles of commerce, as they affected private individuals, must be interfered with and destroyed, if private individuals were obliged to compete with rivals enjoying the power of sovereignty, and possessing twenty-five millions of revenue from their commercial and territorial acquisitions. How they were to relieve themselves from this difficulty he could not tell: all that he could say at present was this, that it did appear to him, that the more they separated the commerce of India from its sovereignty, the better would it be for the interests of all parties engaged in commerce with India—the better would it be for the advancement of civilization in India—the better would it it be for the great interests of the people of India—and the better would it be for the interests of the people of England, the consumers of the produce which India supplied, and the producers of the articles in which that produce was to be paid for. For if the East-India Company were carrying on their commerce to the injury of individuals, as it had been confidently stated that they were, that injury must ultimately fall upon the people of England. Therefore it was, that he wished to give to commerce a greater expansion than it had at present, and to rescue it from competing with that monstrous anomaly of commercial enterprise and sovereign power united in the same corporation. He was particularly desirous that the inquiry should be commenced as early as possible. He wished it to be distinctly understood, that though he thought that there was great evil in the present state of things, he did not think that it arose either from the conduct of the East-India Company or from that of the directors, to whom he owed, and for whom he felt, all possible respect, and who had exerted the greatest talent for the benefit of those whose interests they were selected to protect and to promote, but that it arose from the anomalous nature of the system itself. There was one point on which he must say that he could not agree with his right hon. friend. His right hon. friend said, that it was useless to enter upon any inquiry in this session, and insinuated that it would be almost premature to enter upon inquiry in the next session.

.—No, no: I neither said nor insinuated any such thing [hear].

was well aware, that his right hon. friend had not said any such thing in direct words, but he had said this—that inquiry should take place next session, but that there was no indispensable necessity that it should take place even then, as the charter of the company did not expire till 1834. His right hon. friend had likewise stated, that on two former occasions the inquiry had taken place only one year before its expiration. He thought that if, on the present occasion, the inquiry should be commenced at an early period, and should be prosecuted to a conclusion as soon as possible, it would satisfy the House, the country, and the directors of the East-India Company too, that it was for the interest of them all to make an alteration in the present charter, at a period previous to its legal termination. He was of opinion that, if a committee were appointed, the question of a more extended intercourse between this country and China might be settled at an earlier period than the year 1834. Let not gentlemen, when they looked at that part of the question, deceive themselves. If they neglected to follow in the track which was now open to them—if they left foreigners to occupy for years a market into which we might, but were not allowed by law, to enter—if they let the industrious classes of Chinese deal with America for commodities, which they would at present as willingly take from us—if they prohibited, too, all commercial intercourse between China and Sincapore—it might, perhaps, be too late to alter our policy, when the charter of the company had expired. In the years which must elapse between that time and the present, others would be engaged in that trade, which might now be ours; and therefore he said, boldly to the House of Commons, "You ought to seize the advantages which present themselves to your grasp, whilst you yet can." Look, too, at the new world. The troubles of the states of South America could not continue for ever. They must fall before long under a settled form of government; and then their intercourse with the east must be very considerable. Their situation on the coast of the Pacific was advantageous for intercourse with all the Archipelago of the Indies. At present they were without any commercial marine. The means of carrying on the intercourse between South America and China would be seized by the merchants of other states, if we failed to avail ourselves of it. The United States of America had already got a good deal of the carrying trade; and if we let three or four years pass without doing any thing, it might be productive of great mischief to the position which England had to maintain in the east.

He therefore contended, that the question ought to be taken up at as early a period as possible, and especially on those points which were only connected with a part of the charter. It was not a matter of indifference that the House should show to the merchants and manufacturers of England, who were labouring under great depression, that this was a question to which it was alive, and that it was looking to a satisfactory arrangement of it, as soon as it could be made with due attention to vested rights and interests. He was satisfied that if inquiry were granted, we should be able long before the expiration of the present charter, with the concurrence of the East-India Company, to make some satisfactory compromise, so that a new system of trade might start up in the place of the old one. That system was clearly defective. In the year 1793, when the renewal of the Company's exclusive privileges was under discussion, it was stipulated, that three thousand tons of the Company's shipping should be set aside for the merchants of England, and they were set aside accordingly. The condition on which this trade commenced was a payment on the outward-bound cargo of 5l. per ton, and on the import cargo 15l. per ton; and yet this condition, severe as it now appeared, was deemed at the time to be a considerable advance to a better system. On the renewal of the charter in 1813, we obtained an indefinite power of increasing our trade with India as far as it could be extended. Since that time it had been extended very considerably, and therefore it was not theoretical to assume, that if the House proceeded in the course of relaxation, our trade with India would go on increasing the benefits which the country already derived from its connexion with India, securing the tranquillity and prosperity of that continent, and promoting the welfare of all parties engaged in its commerce. He felt these considerations so strongly that he did hope that the points which related to the political arrangements to be made hereafter respecting India would not stand in the way of the commercial intercourse, which was so interesting to the merchants of England, and which was likely to prove so beneficial to the civilization of India. He would not, however, advise his hon. friend to persist in his motion: he would rather advise him to withdraw it, in consequence of the promise which had been given by his right hon. friend. At the same time he must say, that he was not at all sorry that the discussion had taken place.

said, that since the chancellor of the Exchequer had admitted that it was necessary that an inquiry should take place, the only remaining question was, at what time it should take place. This was not a question which involved the existence of the East-India Company. It was one which might be inquired into without any reference to that question; and upon that ground he thought that all the reasoning which the right hon. gentleman had resorted to, and all the arguments which he had adduced, were rather in favour of an immediate inquiry. At least, he could not conceive upon what ground it was, after all that he had said upon the subject, that the right hon. gentleman could bring himself to the conclusion that it would be best to postpone the inquiry until next session, when he himself admitted the importance of an early investigation. The present stagnation in the commercial world was well known to every one. The manufacturers had goods ready to send out, if they could only find a vent for them. That vent would be afforded, if the trade with China were thrown open. Until the present evening, he had always heard of the advantage of practical knowledge over theoretical reasoning; but that was not now admitted. He asked the right hon. gentleman, what was the opinion of those who were best calculated, from long experience, to offer an opinion upon the subject? He asked, whether they did not agree that the present system was highly prejudicial to this country? He held that the House ought, in deference to public opinion, to institute an inquiry into the subject without delay; in order to ascertain, before it came to the question of the renewal of the charter, how the modifications which had been alluded to could be introduced without detriment to the interests of those concerned. He thought that the ground of delay was not a good one, for it was only a few years ago that the documentary evidence which had been so much talked of in the course of this debate had been entirely quashed. It would, therefore, be necessary to seek other evidence; and that could not be done until a committee had been appointed. He saw no reason why the inquiry should be postponed on account of the House sitting later than ministers contemplated, since their sitting two or three months more or less was nothing when such mighty interests were involved. How could the House be better employed than in investigating matters which so nearly concerned not merely the present welfare of England, but its permanent prosperity? The only reason that had been given for delay was, that on the former renewal of the charter only two years were employed in previous investigation; but that was a mistake, for the reports made at that time occupied five years in their compilation. Besides, the right hon. gentleman should not take which so bounded a view as he seemed to do upon the subject. When they legislated for India they should not merely look to the advantages which certain changes might bring our own merchants, but to the interest of the millions of subjects we had in that part of the world. It was said that a committee appointed by the government would most likely arrive at the truth. He thought, unfortunately, from the constitution of that House, no committee could be had but what was appointed by the government. But he did not care who appointed the committee, so that they arrived at the truth. He knew, however, what kind of a report there would be if the committee was nominated according to the wishes of some parties. You might draw up a case, submit it to a lawyer, and get any opinion you liked. So it was with committees of that House. Tell him what opinion was wanted, and it would be only necessary to get the committee nominated in a proper way to obtain it. He hoped, however, the time would arrive when they should have a committee that would be appointed neither exclusively by those in the interests of the merchants, of the government, or of the East-India Company. In any thing he might say he did not wish to detract from the merit of the court of directors; far from it, for he believed that no men ever wished more to do good to those under their sway, than the East-India directors did to the inhabitants of India; but it had unfortunately happened that many of their measures, conceived with the kindest intentions, had failed in their object from a want, on the part of those who brought them forward, of a knowledge of those general principles which ought to regulate the concerns of a vast empire like India. The right hon. gentleman opposite alluded several times in the course of last year, but particularly in allusion to the tariff of the United States, to two most important articles of our commerce with America—he meant tobacco and cotton; and he had hoped from those frequent allusions to them by the right hon. gentleman, that he would this year have taken steps to make us sharers to a larger amount in the benefits the American ship-owners reaped from the transportation of those articles to this country. The object of America was, very naturally, to get as large a share of the carrying trade as possible, and to curtail that of England. She was right in doing so if she could; but it behoved us to take what measures were in our power to preserve as much as possible of it in our own hands. It was clear to him, that if we could get our cotton and tobacco from India instead of America it would give employment to two hundred thousand additional tons of British shipping. India was capable of supplying us to an unlimited extent with every article we got from America. It was the native country of cotton, and was transplanted from there to the new world. The Company was not, perhaps, so much to blame as might be thought at first sight, for our not getting a larger supply of cotton than we did from India; for the fact was, that all the Indian cotton came from the Mahratta states, which were not subject to us until the year 1804. The House would be surprised to hear how much of the cotton we imported came from America. We imported in all 197,000,000 lbs. Of this we obtained 151,000,000 lbs. from the United States. He saw no reason why Englishmen, or Indians under the direction of English capitalists, could not cultivate all the cotton wanted, and bring the article to as high a state of perfection as we did other things in other countries. Brazil furnished us with 17,000,000 lbs. Egypt, which seven years back did not send a single bale, now supplied us with 7,000,000 lbs.; the West Indies sent us 9,000,000 lbs.; but we should not look to any increase in that quarter, as the soil was limited, and the attention of the landowners turned to other objects: finally, from India we received only 12,000,000 lbs. and that after possessing the territory where it grew for five and twenty years. These facts showed that we ought to proceed to an inquiry forthwith, and induce Englishmen to settle in India. He said settle, because to attempt colonizing a country overflowing with inhabitants, who were content to work for 3d. a day, was ridiculous. We might colonize America, or New South Wales, but we could not colonize India. We might, however, settle some Englishmen there with the greatest advantage. If, instead of adding about two thousand English residents, which were all added in consequence of the relaxations in the last renewal of the charter, we had added ten thousand, it would have rendered our possessions much more secure and profitable, and would have furnished a good outlet for the superabundant population and capital of this country. The vast quantity of shipping employed by the Americans in bringing us their cotton might give the House an idea how much our shipping interest would be benefitted by our fetching if from India. He merely wished English capital encouraged in In- dia, and not protective duties imposed to bring about these objects; for he considered protective duties always injurious to the community, except in the infancy of a manufacture. The quantity of tobacco imported into this country from the United States would serve to strengthen the arguments he had already urged. In round numbers we imported 33,000,000 lbs., and of this 32,000,000 lbs. came from the United States, employing about one hundred thousand tons of shipping. Now, there were parts of India, Masulipatam for instance, which would grow tobacco of the very best quality, and to any extent. It was said that in a few years, when the states of South America came to be settled, we should meet with a supply from that quarter. That might be very true; but it the more behoved us to make haste and get a regular supply from a colony of our own. If a committee were appointed, he would undertake in one week to produce evidence sufficient to prove to its satisfaction, that our exports to India were only limited to its means of export, and that by the restrictions we had placed upon the trade of that country we had merely been injuring our commercial interests. He would pledge himself also to bring merchants of experience to show that if they were not under the restrictions our absurd system imposed, they would be able to sell the tea of Canton in London for the price they gave for it. That might appear paradoxical to those who were not acquainted with mercantile affairs; but the way in which it would be done was this:—English merchants had many hundred thousand pounds worth of goods at Canton, and could get no remittances for them except from the Company's agents, who gave them bills on Calcutta at a loss to the merchant, by the course of exchange, of twenty or thirty per cent. It was clear, therefore, that if the English merchant were allowed, he could afford to bring away tea from Canton, and sell it in London at the price he bought it at; as even then he would gain the twenty or thirty per cent he would have lost by getting his money in the present mode. Again, an English ship going out with a cargo could not, from our absurd restrictions, get a cargo back to England, but he could to Hamburgh, or some other continental port; but by our system he was not allowed to take it, whilst an American vessel could. In the same way, an English ship on the north-west coast of America, if she could not get a cargo home, but was offered one direct to China, could not accept of it, whilst an American could take it, and get a return cargo back, to the great injury of the English-shipowner. These things ought not to be suffered to go on; for the country was not in a condition to postpone measures that would relieve her distress. Let not ministers show themselves utterly regardless of the calls of the country. He feared that this was not a "passing cloud," as had been said; for he was informed, that nothing but the most extraordinary exertions could save our merchants, manufacturers, and ship-owners from ruin. It was all very well to say, that there should be an inquiry next year; but it was well known that a year always elapsed between inquiry and remedy. Let them, therefore, get the inquiry this year, and they would probably get the remedy next year. Let the House appoint a committee; let it meet to-morrow morning; and he would produce evidence sufficient to employ it for the next month. What more would they have? They were promised inquiry next year; but who knew whether the ministers would be in their places next year? He hoped a division would be called for; because he was anxious to see how many persons in the House agreed with him. He was accused of advocating strange notions, and perhaps he sometimes did; but he liked to see how many concurred in those notions. He had lived long enough to see measures which had been rejected by miserable minorities carried by the very ministers who had successfully opposed them. The House ought to pause ere it refused to accede to this motion. He objected to documentary evidence, as decisive of the merits of a case like this. Such evidence it was always easy to get up. He preferred, on all occasions, examinations by question and answer. He confessed he had little relish for reports drawn up by persons interested in the continuance of the monopoly itself, and conducted under the direction of an East-India directory. He hoped the right hon. gentleman would yet consider the propriety of the course he proposed to follow in this instance.

said, he did not rise to prolong the discussion; but he felt called upon to make some observations on the extraordinary speech which had fallen from the hon. member for Montrose; who had nevertheless declared, that what he had said was not said in a spirit of hostility to his majesty's government. This he would certainly say of that hon. gentleman, that he had not shown greater hostility to government than he had shown to all the other parties interested. With that peculiar modesty which belonged to the hon. member for Montrose, he had arrogated to himself the right to censure all the measures of every government on this great subject, as well as all the parties to whose interests those measures were applicable. On one point the hon. member ran no risk of his predictions being falsified by the event. In pressing the hon. member for Bridgenorth to carry the question to a division, the hon. member for Montrose said, that although he had formerly voted in a minority of six on a question for inquiry into the subject, he had no doubt he should now vote in a majority on the same question. As his right hon. friend had intimated, that he would next session propose an inquiry, it was certainly probable that the anticipation of the hon. member for Montrose would be realized. The hon. member for Bridgenorth had made his statements in a manner which did him great credit, and in a tone very different from that of the hon. member for Montrose. There was no part of his right hon. friend's speech which justified the hon. member for Montrose in saying, "You tell the commercial interest we are indifferent to your sufferings '" [hear, hear! from Mr. Hume]. The only return he would make to the hon. member's cheer was the strongest denial of the truth of his assertion. No liberal man could possibly have put such a construction on the statement of his right hon. friend. Nor was there any stronger ground for the supposition of the hon. member, that the documentary evidence for which his right hon. friend would move, in the present session, was to be prepared with certain views; or, that there was to be a report drawn up by an East-India director. What had already been done showed that such would not be the case. If the hon. gentleman thought that government would be influenced by a pre-conceived opinion upon this subject, was there no danger that there were persons who would be influenced by a pre-conceived opinion the other way? His right hon. friend had not restricted himself to the statement, that documentary evidence would be fur- nished by government this session; but, in addition, had pledged himself, as was fitting on one of the greatest questions ever submitted to the consideration of the legislature, that his majesty would be advised to direct that the question should be brought forward by his ministers early in the next session. It was clear, therefore, that his right hon. friend's intended motion for documentary evidence was merely to assist in enabling the House and the public to form a judgment upon the question which would next session be submitted to them. Under these circumstances, he would ask if the hon. member for Montrose was justified in saying, that his right hon. friend had evinced a disposition to slight the commercial interests of the country, or to withhold from them relief?

said, that the pledge given by the chancellor of the Exchequer was so ample, as to be perfectly satisfactory to him. He believed that the great commercial interests of the country would also feel satisfied with the pledge given by the right hon. gentleman to bring it under the consideration of the House. He confessed he did not think the member for Montrose had argued the question with his usual acuteness; for he had represented the commercial interests of the country as anxiously waiting the decision of the House upon it; which, of course, could not be the case, as they were quite certain that no alteration could take place respecting it until after the expiration of the charter.

though it would be more advisable that the appointment of this committee should emanate from, and be sanctioned by, government. It ought not certainly to be taken up as a party question or a party measure. There was no one, he believed, who was not anxious foe the fullest information, so at to enable the legislature to decide with due discretion and sound policy on a subject so intimately connected with the highest interests of this commercial country. The paramount importance of this subject was to be found, not in the renewal, or refusal, of the charter five years hence—not in the East-India Company being continued in the government of our vast eastern empire—but in the higher object of protecting the interests and promoting the happiness of the many millions of the inhabitants of that extensive empire, who were entitled to look up to this country for the preser- vation of public peace, private property, and deference to their ancient religion. For his part he was not so desirous this committee should be appointed for the purpose of availing himself of the opinion it might pronounce on the subject. He wished rather to be possessed of the evidence which it might elicit in detail: on this he should form his own opinion, and be decided as to the vote he ought to give. It ought to be considered, that the East-India Company were no longer the conductors of the trade with China. Not a fifth part of that trade now passed through their hands. They might be designated as a body trading to China, and governing India. He regretted that the monopoly of the Company's trade to China had been extended for so long a time; and this he knew was the feeling of his late right hon. friend (Mr. Canning) who had immediately preceded him in the situation of president of the Board of Control.

said, that the subject was undoubtedly one of the greatest importance, and the sooner an inquiry could be instituted into it the better; provided that inquiry were of an effectual character. When, however, it was considered, that a fortnight or three weeks would, in all probability, terminate the present session, he thought that it would be more convenient to all parties to begin the inquiry at the commencement of a new session. If the House were now to appoint a committee, the consequence would be, that deputies would flock to town from all the commercial parts of the country, and that expectations would be created which it would be utterly impossible to realise. The only objects which such a committee could have in view, would be to digest a plan for obtaining information in the ensuing year, to determine what parts of the Reports which had already been made ought to be printed, receive the documentary evidence which government intended to communicate, and to see whether any more would be necessary. It ought, in fact, to be a committee of preparation for next year. He could see no reason why any committee appointed on the subject should give their opinion upon it. If they collected and reported the evidence upon it, that would be sufficient. He really could not concur in the apprehension of the hon. member for Montrose, that any partial view would be taken of the question. Although he was not in the habit of reposing unlimited confidence in his majesty's government, he could not see what interest they could possibly have, except to do justice as far as they could between the East-India Company and the country. Even the cautious silence on the present occasion of the hon. Chairman of the Court of Directors induced him to believe that that hon. gentleman was not so very willing to trust the cause of the Company in the hands of his majesty's government, as his hon. friend seemed to suppose. He had great confidence that no political or party feeling was at ell likely to disturb the deliberations of parliament on this great question. They might determine it erroneously; but he was persuaded that they would determine it with impartiality. When the inquiry came to be instituted, it would perhaps be desirable to institute more than one committee. The inquiry might, in his opinion, be advantageously divided into three committees. The first might be a committee to ascertain the financial position of the Company. This Was indispensable; for when the opening of the trade to China ad been talked of, it was said, that if the Company were deprived of that trade they would not have the means of meeting their debts, and carrying on the government of India. It therefore became necessary know the amount of the debts of the Company, and of their assets, their profits, and their probable future situation. Without all this knowledge, it would be impossible to ascertain the financial state of the Company. Another committee would be advantageously employed in considering the commercial part of the question. The third committee might have assigned to them to examine with great care the condition of the people of India, and them effects likely to result from the unrestrained trained intercourse between this country and India. This was the greatest question of the whole. When the Charter was last renewed he had voted in favour of the company, because he thought that great danger was involved in the extension of the trade then proposed. Happily, these apprehensions had been negatived by the result. But if the doors were to be opened still more widely, he must say, that he thought the question would be approached with great and serious risk. He hoped, therefore, that next year three committees would be appointed to collect facts and evidence. Considering the great importance of the question, and the natural anxiety of the mercantile interest respecting it, he hoped ministers would see the advantage of assembling parliament again as early as possible. He begged also to suggest, that although the Charter of the Company would not expire until 1834, that of the Bank of England would expire in 1833. The latter, if not so important a question as the former, would, nevertheless, require grave consideration. It would be exceedingly inconvenient to have both questions under the consideration of parliament at the same time. He had only one more observation to make, with a view of obviating the injury which might arise from the exaggerated statements that had been made of the benefits that would result from opening the trade with India. Whoever had heard the able speech of the hon. member for Bridgenorth, must nevertheless allow that he had greatly exaggerated the benefits which the opening of the trade was calculated to produce. Great benefits might arise from that opening; but when it was stated, that it would lead the way to commerce with two or three hundred millions of people, the danger was, that there would be no end to the preparations for taking advantage of so great a good; and that every body would be anxious to have a share in so rich a mine. Let it be recollected, however, that the trade was at present, carried on by all the world; by the United States of America, and by almost every country in Europe, All that was wanted was that the commercial interest of England generally should participate in the advantage. If any notion should go abroad of immense benefits to this country from the proposed measure, he would venture to say, that that notion would be followed by a greater disappointment than had ever before attended a similar expectation. One reason for his wishing to go into an early consideration of the question was, to ascertain whether the East-India Company might not be induced to permit the participation by the general merchants of this country, not of that monopoly of the Company from which they derived their principal profit—the importation of tea into this country—but of the indirect trade in that article from China to France, and Hamburgh, and all other parts of Europe. If it were not speaking irreverently of persons whom he so highly respected, he should say that the Company were like the dog in the manger—they prevented any participation in a trade which they did not themselves enjoy. He should recommend this view of the subject both to the company and to the government. If what he recommended was followed, instead of the country rushing all at once into the trade to India and China, they would make a beginning in an indirect trade, and would break from one system into another, without any chance of exaggeration in their adventures. When this question came to be examined by the committee, the House and the country would do justice to the India Company for their disinterested, liberal, and enlightened conduct in India. That conduct might be exposed to much criticism in part; but the administration of the Indian government would bear a comparison with that of any colony under the Crown.

expressed his satisfaction at hearing of the intention of ministers to take up this vast question, and had no doubt that the report of the committee would be as fair and impartial as that of 1813. He agreed in the observation, that the trade with India formed the least important part of this great question: its principal object was the welfare of the natives of India. He was still of opinion, that the union of the two characters of sovereign and merchant in the East-India Company was disadvantageous to the governed and the governors: some alteration must be made in this respect, for it was impossible that a private trade with India could be carried on in competition with the Company, who, even after the expiration of their Charter, might carry on a trade thither as a corporation. Objectionable and faulty as the Company's government might be, he considered it to be preferable to that of our colonial governments; and he congratulated the natives of India in being placed under the government of the Company instead of the Crown. With regard to the China trade, it was his opinion that the expectations formed of the advantages to be derived from opening that branch of the trade would be disappointed. That empire was hermetically sealed against foreign commerce: the consequence of opening that trade to private traders would be a vast glut of exports, and a rise in the prices of commodities in China. The trade at Canton was carried on by a monopoly; the whole empire was managed by monopolies. The Hong merchants fixed the prices of the commodities, and the markets of Canton had maintained such an uniformity of prices for the last twenty years, that the article of cotton had seldom varied beyond eight or ten taels the pecul. Then trade was interdicted at every other port in China; and it was within his own knowledge, that an enterprising individual had fitted out a vessel for the purpose of forcing a trade in other parts of the empire, who had not only been unable to open a trade with the natives, but had been obliged to purchase provisions by stealth, and with hard dollars. With respect to the private trade with India, it was only in its infancy. How was it to be increased? Not by the East-India Company, but by that House. Let his majesty's government begin by reducing the duties upon the commodities of India. A small duty was imposed upon English manufactures, but a heavy duty upon Indian commodities. Was that reciprocity? Was that free trade? We took away the raw cotton from the Indians, and sent them our cotton goods, which superseded their manufactures. He hoped that the inquiry proposed would embrace not our own interests merely, but those of the people of India.

said, although it had been my intention in the early part of the evening to have troubled the House with my remarks, and possibly at some length, in the attempt to refute the arguments and expose the errors of the hon. member for Bridgenorth, I then abstained, in the belief that the proposition of the chancellor of the Exchequer, would have made further discussion unnecessary. What has fallen from the hon. member for Callington makes it incumbent upon me to trouble the House with a few observations. I can assure the House, that there is no one who courts inquiry into this subject more cordially than I do, or who more deplores the ignorance which pervades this country with respect to India and the prejudices raised against the East-India Company and their affairs; and I am persuaded that a thorough investigation would tend to disperse those prejudices. The hon. member for Callington has pointed out the exaggerations of the hon. member for Bridgenorth, and I am not disposed at this late hour to enter into the particulars of the case; but I think that the House and the country should not be suffered to conclude that, because benefit has been assumed to follow from the partial opening of the trade, an unrestricted free trade would have the same effect. An increased export to India is no proof of increased prosperity without a correspondent return from India. It is alleged, that the opening of the China trade and the colonizetion of India by Europeans would lead to the introduction of the manufactures of this country to an unlimited extent; and it is even affirmed, that it would afford to our manufacturers the markets of two or three hundred millions of people. The East-India Company have nearly ceased to be exporters of goods as merchants; and their importations, which consist chiefly of silk and indigo, are made principally as means of remittance to enable them to defray the territorial charges incurred in this country on account of India. In their political capacity they are quite alive to the necessity of encouraging the products of the East. The article of cotton, to which reference has been had, is anything but neglected by the Company; much has been done, with the sanction, or by the direction of the executive body in this country for the encouragement of the cultivators and the manufacturers; but the muslins of India, which had long been so famous, have been supplanted by the manufactures of Manchester and Glasgow. With regard to the giving greater facilities to the resort of Europeans to India, experience has shewn that the natives of that country will not, if I may so express myself, keep company with Europeans; and I would refer the House to a work lately published, the Journal of Bishop Heber, in proof that nothing could be more impolitic than the unrestricted admission of Europeans into India. That country is sufficiently open to England for all useful and practical purposes. European articles are to be had at either of the presidencies almost as cheap as in England. The shipping interest is in as pitiable a condition; many ships being laid up in Calcutta, others coming home dead freighted, or at 15s. per ton. I think that these facts speak volumes. I shall feel glad if, in the next session, an opportunity be given of examining the whole subject. The result will, I am convinced, shew, that the government of the Company has not only not been so defective as the advocates of free trade and colonization would endeavour to make this nation believe, but that the Company have been humble instruments in the hand's of Providence of conferring great benefits on the natives of India, who, from their peculiar connexion with this country have undoubtedly strong claims upon us. The moral happiness of the people has been much advanced by the government under which they are now Placed; and as the knowledge of the institutions which we have introduced becomes more widely diffused, the more will they acquiesce in the benefit of our dominion, and the more will they profit by the protection it affords to them. It is our duty not to make experiments: we must proceed temperately, and with a view not merely to extend the commercial resources of this country, but to advance the happiness and prosperity of the millions in the East confided to our government.

observed, with reference to there commendation of an hon. member, that young senators would qualify themselves for this question by visiting India, that this plan, under the present system, was not so easy as he seemed to think. A distinguished foreigner, baron Humboldt, being desirous of prosecuting his researches in natural history in Nepaul, had applied for permission to go to India and was refused. Another individual, a distinguished merchant, had applied for permission to send an agent to India, to superintend the manufacture of silk, and his request was refused. He, however, sent him in defiance of the refusal, and the East-India Company had the cowardice not to send him back, for fear of the exposure of their nefarious proceedings. One thing was important: if Europeans were permitted to go to India, they should be placed under vigilant observation, in order that the natives might be secure against injury. The system of law in that country was unfit for them: it was dilatory and expensive. There was another part of the present system which was highly objectionable, he meant the Board of Control. With respect to that board, the persons who composed it had the interests of our Indian possessions sincerely at heart: but how was it possible that they could do any good when they held office only by the tenure of a day? The moment they had learned to do their duty they were removed to some other office, and new persons were introduced, just as ignorant of the state of India as their predecessors when they first became members of the board. This subject required the serious attention of the House.

believe the hon. member had been misinformed. Only one case had come before him since he had become a member of the board. The applicant had been treated with the utmost attention by the board, permitted to proceed to India, and had even received from the governors of the presidencies all possible favour. Of baron Humboldt's case he had never heard; but he could assure the hon. member that persons had not only been allowed to travel over India, but had received pecuniary and other assistance from the Indian government.

said, he did not rise, at that late hour to empress his opinion at length upon this very important question; nor did he at all come forward to declare in what way any new arrangement should be made; but that the that the arrangement of the commercial part of this great question could not last after what had been stated, was perfectly, evident: but, as had been well observed, the difference in the degree of monopoly, and the arrangement which must succeed the present system, must be regulated with a view to other and greater interests than were involved in the general question; for it should be observed, that this question was not commercial alone. They had in legislating on it three distinct subjects to consider—the commercial branch—the political branch—and that which was the most difficult and the most important,—the connexion between both. The third question, though the most practical, was beyond doubt the most difficult; for the Company had grown up by degrees to be what no human being imagined it would become—a great political body, trading in one respect at a loss, in another at a profit; but a great ruler over a great people,—one of the largest military powers in the world, and, with two three exceptions, the greatest maritime power in Europe; but, above all, somehow or other intrusted with the government of above seventy millions of people on the other side of the globe. Now, what the legislature were imperatively bound to consider, was whether they could preserve the rights and interest of those people, consistently with the abolition of the Company's monopoly; and that, he hoped, would be found perfectly possible. But whether this were so or not, or in whatever way the change must be effected, still it was clear, from the information which had been laid before them,—information that stood uncontradicted,—that a change was necessary and inevitable. An hon. gentleman had charged the hon. mover with exaggeration. Now, the speech of the hon. mover was, so far as his knowledge went, perfectly just in its principles, and luminous in its details; and every single point which he brought forward—the China trade included—was ably and conclusively illustrated. Therefore, if the mercantile question only stood in the way, it could be easily dealt with; but the difficulty was, how the removal of the monopoly could be accomplished with perfect security to the other great interests that were concerned—with safety to the essential interests of that country, and with safety also to that long established government. When he said this, it would be at once conceived, that he did not wish to transfer that government to this country; because, though an anomaly, yet the government of India, as regarded the interests of the people, and the maintenance of due and legal subordination could not, he thought, be placed so safely in other hands, even if they lived to see the Company cease to be traders, and aspire to become governors of a mighty empire. These, however, were matters which would form the subject of future discussion. But that the circumstances of the time, connected as they must be with inquiry, would lead to a great and radical change of the situation of this Company, he took to be to be as clear as possible. Then the practical result for them to arrive at was, when that inquiry should be made? And though he felt that there was much weight in the observations of those who wished them to make a beginning in the present session,—short as it was likely to be—thought he felt that some good might be done by selecting particular matters for future consideration, and by examining those documents which had now been promised them,—yet, taking into view every point connected with this intricate subject, he thought it would be better not to press the question to a division; the understanding being, he thought, that as soon as the sessional business was fairly brought forward, this question should be really and positively discussed; and that, in the mean time, the documentary evidence should be placed within the reach of every hon. member.

replied shortly. He adverted to the increasing prosperity of the American trade with China, to prove how much British merchants would be benefited by a full participation in that branch of commerce. He argued on the absolute necessity of the House being placed in possession of the very best evidence on this subject, and concluded by expressing his hope that ministers, who appeared to be liberally disposed, would grant an early and an effectual inquiry.

The motion was negatived without a division.