called their, attention ,of the House to a matter in which he considered the privilege of members was involved., Two days ago a summons had been served upon him to attend the Court of, Common, Pleas as a juror; which he, considering that by his privilege he was exempted from, attendance, declined, to, comply with and by, so doing rendered himself liable to be, fined. Now, as the attempt to inflict such a fine would be a breach of, privilege. he wished put the House in possession, of the fact, that they might, deal with it, as, they pleased. A case of this: kind occurred in the last parliament, and was referred to, a committee, which committee reported upon it, and cited as a precedent a case quite analogous to his— that of a member who was, summoned ,to attend the court. of Common Pleas as a juror;, and it appeared from the Journals of ,the 15th of May, 658, that the Speaker was instructed to write to the judges at Westminster setting forth the privilege of the member, and desiring that, he should not, be amerced for his non—attendance. The privilege thus claimed, and admitted was since confirmed by the act 6th of George 4th, chap.50, for regulating juries. He would there—fore move "that Mr. Macleod, having been summoned to the court of Common Pleas as a juror and having declined to attend in consequence of his privilege as A member of ,the, House, Mr. Speaker be instructed to, write to the judges ,of that court, desiring that he be not amerced for such, refusal."

hoped before he put, this question, that the House Would permit him to offer a few words. It .would, be admitted, that nothing tended more to lower the privileges of that House than to bring in question, matters which were indisputable. The hon. member had quoted a case; but there, was this difference between it and his case,—that in the former, the House was sitting at the time the summons was served, which was not so in the latter. The hon. member had refused to attend, and in doing so he had acted very right; but the question for the House to consider was, whether it would be right to proceed in the manner now proposed, upon the anticipation that a violation of the privileges of parliament would be committed by one of the courts at Westminster. A doubt had been raised, whether the act to which the hon. member referred had touched the question of privilege; and it was decided that it had not. That being the case, it was clear that members of that House were not liable to be called upon to serve on juries during the sitting of parliament. The next point to be considered was, whether an adjournment of the House was to be looked upon as a sitting, as far as the question of privilege was concerned; and he believed it was admitted by every member that it was so considered, He would put it to the hon. member, then, whether he would raise a doubt upon a point which was indisputable.

said, that his only object in the motion was to put the case before the House. Having done so, he would withdraw it.

presented a petition from several copyholders of the manor of Hampstead, against a bill before the House, which, though brought in as an Estate Bill, would give to the lord of the manor a power of enclosing Hampstead heath. It was a great hardship on many of the poor copyholders residing on the manor, that they should be deprived of the advantages they derived from it; and particularly that they should not have an opportunity of being heard by counsel against the bill. In order to give them that opportunity, he should move that the bill be re committed.

supported the prayer of the petition, and thought the case one of great hardship.

could not see why the lord of the manor should not have the same power and privilege over his property at Hampstead, as in any other part of the country. The contiguity of that place to London made no difference as to his rights.

did not mean to deny him the exercise of his just rights; but the complaint here was, that he was about to obtain the power of enclosing the heath against the consent of the copyholders.

defended the bill, which he said would tend to improve the condition of the copyholders on the manor. It was not his intention to bring up the report on that day.

presented a petition from the parish of Wainfleet, in the county of Lincoln, praying that Protestant soldiers might be emancipated from the obligation of attending at the processions and other ceremonies of Catholics in foreign countries, and also that the two officers who were dismissed the service for refusing to salute at one of those festivals, might be recommended to the Crown for restoration to their rank. He dwelt upon the hardship of the case of those officers; who, he said, were brought to a court-martial, and cashiered, for not conforming to what they considered Violation of their conscience. He put it to the Secretary at War, whether regulations requiring our troops stationed in Catholic countries to assist at and salute those superstitious ceremonies, should be strictly enforced upon. Protestant soldiers, and whether those officers had not already suffered enough for what they had done, in remonstrating against a practice repugnant to their religion. He would put it to him whether they should not re-commended to the Crown for restoration to their rank.

said, that the case of those officers was not exactly as the hon. baronet had stated. They were stationed at Malta, and had been directed to fire a salute on the eve of one of the religious festivals of that island, but they refused, and the order was sent to the serjeant, who saw it executed. They then remonstrated in a very improper manner at having the order given to the serjeant; and for their conduct in disobedience of orders, they were tried, and very justly dismissed the service. What they were called on to do was not to join ,in any religious ceremony, but merely to pay that respect which British troops had always been accustomed to pay to the religion of the people amongst whom they happened to be stationed. When our troops were in Portugal, this respect to the religion of each was paid by Catholic and Protestant soldiers; and it was not an unfrequent thing to see a battalion of Catholics attending their religious worship in one part of the field, and a battalion of Protestants assisting at theirs in another. For two years that he was with the Prussian army in France, the soldiers, though nearly all Lutherans, were in the habit of turning out to salute the Host. There was, he contended, nothing either idolatrous or in consistent with Christian feeling in paying a respect to the religion of the .people amongst whom troops were stationed. As to the case of the two officers, if they, or others on their behalf, should petition to be restored to their rank, the matter would receive all due attention; though. he owned he could not see on what ground the prerogative of the Crown could he extended to their case. It was a strong ease of disobedience of orders, which could not be tolerated where proper discipline was to be observed.

thought the case of the two officers was one which called for a severe visitation; and he was glad that they had been dismissed. No officer should be allowed to disobey the orders his superiors with impunity.

agreed with the hon. baronet who preceded him, that a man was bound to obey the orders of his superior officer, but he differed from him as to his view of this case. He had looked into it, and, he thought it one of extreme hardship on those individuals who were dismissed, for he did not think it turned upon, their not firing the salute on the eve of the festival. But why should our Protestant soldiers be called on to take a part in those superstitious ceremonies, and, to violate their consciences?

Ordered to lie on the table.

said, he held in his hand a petition from Blackburn in Lancashire, which, from the great importance of the subjects to which it referred, deserved the serious attention of the House. The petitioners complained .,of the great distress in which they, in common with other of the manufacturing classes were involved; and in any fair view which could be taken of the state of the country, it was impossible not to feel that the statement of the petitioners had been made out. He thought it was the duty of parliament to consider the allegations contained in this petition. He knew it would be said, that parliament had no means of redress for the existing distress; and that therefore we ought to leave it to take its chance. But such was not the duty of the legislature: on the contrary, the members of it were bound to alleviate the distress of the country. He was aware that he could not at present regularly enter into a discussion of the state of the nation. Had his hon. friend the member for Cornwall, been permitted to bring forward his motion on that subject, he should have entered into that discussion at considerable length; but that opportunity was past, and all that remained for him to do was to call the attention of the House to the state of the petitioners. The Hon member here read the petition, which, after drawing a lamentable, picture of the general distress which pervaded every branch of industry, stated, that the cure for this distress was, in the opinion of the petitioners, within the reach of legislative control. The petitioners therefore in treated, the House to cause an investigation to be made into the stagnation Of trade under which they suffered.

supported the prayer of the petition, and regretted that ministers should have advised so early an adjournment of the House, in the present distressed state of the country. What had been done during the whole of the session? Nothing, but that foolish, detestable, and atrocious, bill, which gave emancipation to the Catholics. Within the last few .days he had received documents ,from Ireland, corroborating the statements which, he had formerly made of the arrogant, insolent, and ungrateful act of those who were, opinion, devils incarnate,—he meant the Roman Catholic priests. He would give the House a specimen of what they had done. [Here the hoe. member read .a placard, headed "Education Society, to establish free schools for the moral instruction of the poor inhabitants of Ireland. Patron, his Grace the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Dublin: President, lord Concurring;" and then followed a list of donations, headed again by his Grace the Roman Catholic Archbishop of It would be said, that the Attorney general for Ireland would inquire into, the matter, and if it were found to be as he had stated it, would take the requisite measures to stop such practices. Why had he not stopped it already? We ought by all means to prevent it; or people would ridicule them with justice for having brought in a bill which would be a disgrace seven to parish legislation. It might be very pleasant for members of that House to be walking themselves off to the sea-side, or to be going abroad into foreign paints for their private amusement; but he could not approve of an adjournment at that season, for he did not see what right members had to enjoy themselves in leisure, whilst all their constituents were involved in distress.

thought the House had been unfairly dealt with, by the two hon. gentlemen. The hon. member for Newark hard told them, that the present distress of the country was capable of receiving a parliamentary remedy, but he had not told them of what description that remedy was tube. If the hon. member had told them what remedy he had to propose, it might have been an inducement for them to have sat longer; but he had done no such thing, nor had the member for Cornwall, whose motion on the state of the nation had been put off from week to week, appointed another day for its discussion, after he had accidentally lost the day which he last fixed on. He was of opinion that when gentlemen brought down petitions complaining of the distress of the country, and when they accused the House of indifference towards such petitions, they were not treating either the House or the country with that fairness which both deserved, if they did not state to it distinctly the remedy which they thought would cure the sufferings under which the country laboured.

insisted, that the people had a right to complain of the refusal of ministers to take into consideration the general state of distress under which they labored. It was too much to say, that hon. gentle men should not mention that distress unless they were prepared with some specific remedy to relieve it. He had himself followed the plan recommended by the hon. member for Callington, and he had not benefitted in the slightest degree by it. Taxation pressed heavily on the country — he had proposed to reduce it. Our system of Corn laws rendered the price of food dear, and established a blockade against us— he had endeavored to get rid of them. Various charges pressed heavily on our commerce—he had sought to diminish them. And what was the result of his labors? Nothing,—absolutely nothing. It was the duty of ministers to find relief for the distresses of the country.

contended, that inquiry: into the state of the country was absolutely necessary. With all the elements of prosperity about us; with abundance of capital; with great energy; with unwearied industry; with foreign commerce pouring in upon us from all quarters; with all the circumstances which are generally quoted as proofs of the prosperity of a country, we were in a state of general calamity and distress. He asked how this came to arise? If the House could not answer the question it ought to inquire.

said, that if the time which had been employed during the present session in discussing the question, whether inquiry should be, granted into the condition: of various branches of our trade, had been employed in; conducting such an inquiry, we should already have effected considerable good by it. Undoubtedly, the attempts which had been made to put down calls for inquiry into the general distress of the country by counter-statements of its general prosperity, had not been without their effect; He believed that many more petitions would have been presented on that subject, had they not been told upon all occasions, that there was no distress in the country. He was not inclined to join in the cry that either the House or the government was indifferent to that distress. He hoped, however, that the House would not allow things to go on much longer in their present condition; for he really believed that the country was retrograding and that all property was rapidly depreciating. For these reasons, he thought that the public would have been better satisfied had the House not set its face so resolutely against all inquiry.

said, that he should not have troubled the House with a single remark upon this petition had it not been for the call which had been made so pointedly upon him by the hon. member for Calling ton. He asked, whether, from the time which had elapsed from the 26th of May, on which his motion had been; fixed to come on, down to last Friday, there had been a single day which was not fully occupied with other orders? Why was be to be held responsible for not bringing that question before the House? Why did not the hon. member for Callington bring it forward, if he knew that distress existed in the country, and did not know how to relieve it? , He could not forbear from alluding to a fiat—and considering the nature of the present government, he was entitled to call it a fiat? which had been issued by the head of the present ministry. It would appear from that fiat, that he had given notice of his motion as a motion connected with the currency of, the country. Now, he had done no such thing; but he had no hesitation in avowing, that he considered that the withdrawal of the one pound notes from circulation had produced a great effect in creating the existing state of: distress. Distasteful as that doctrine might be to gentlemen in that House, there were thousands out of it, who fully agreed with him as to its correctness. We have been told that, from the year 1797 to the present year, we had been going upon a false system of credit, and that we were only just now restored to a wholesome state. We had been told that the State currency—by which he supposed was to be understood gold—and the paper of the Bank of England, was as extensive now as it was before the year 1797. Surely, surely, when the population had increased as it had done, and when its trade and commerce were stated to be so much. extended, the same. quantity of State currency was not to be deemed, sufficient for the present year, as was deemed sufficient for the year 1797? He was afraid that, if it had not been, for the false system of credit, as it was now the fashion to call it, the laurels of Salamanca, and of Victoria,, and of Waterloo, would never have been the mead of those who now wore them; and that even Great Britain herself would not have been the country which he was still proud to say that she was. It was not his intention to enter into this question on the present occasion. If he conceived that the session would last another month, he would renew his former notice of motion: nay, if he were certain that the House would sit only fourteen days longer, he would undertake, if a committee were granted him, to prove that a cause, for our. national distress existed, and that a sufficient remedy might be applied to it by parliament. He had never pledged himself to state what the nature of that remedy was; all he had said was, that a remedy might be found for it. They might look to the causes of the distress for a remedy; but it was too much to suppose that any individual could point out what that remedy was, when so many causes were stated for that distress. It was only the, other night that the President of the Board of Trade had himself stated various causes—as the war in the Levant, a bad harvest, and so on. The House had, indeed, decided, that the number of ships navigating the seas proved the prosperity of the shipping interest; while the fact was, that they were afloat because their use at sea was a less loss to their owners than to leave them rotting in harbor. In fact, in trade at present there was generally no profit, and without meaning to stick pertinacious, to any particular remedy, he confessed he saw no hope of improvement but by some ameliorated system of paper currency; which, by supplying the public exigencies, would revive trade, and give it the same advantages under which this country had heretofore flourished. He was himself perfectly disinterested in this suggestion for he was not in any way connected with the country bankers; of the abuse of whom he wished to say one word. That country bankers might have been often actuated too much for their own individual advantage, he could easily believe; but he also knew that they had been eminently serviceable to people in trade generally. In 1824 and 1825, when the country was deluged, with bank-notes, there were no complaints against them. On the contrary, nothing was talked of but the general prosperity; which nobody lauded higher than the then chancellor of the Exchequer. But at the end of 1825, when some banks stopped payment, through over-issues, and when a run upon them became so general, that there was no knowing who could have weathered the storm had the panic lasted many days longer, then it was, that the cry against country bankers was raised, and their whole system suddenly denounced. With reference to the present state of things, was it decorous in parliament to separate without an inquiry into the distress which was so generally pressed upon them by petitioners? Should it be said, that those who were selected by the greatest nation in the world to guide their affairs, were ready to overlook inquiry, and abandon their legislative functional? They had been told, both by the chancellor of the Exchequer, and the right hon. Secretary, that the vessel of the State was not permanently injured, but would soon right herself. Why not prove how this could be done, in a Committee of Inquiry? As far as in him lay, he had sought that inquiry; nor was he responsible because the opportunity was denied him. He hoped his forebodings from the present signs of the times would prove ill-founded; but if they were visited with a bad harvest, if gold continued to be exported, and if the country was left at the mercy of a five-pound bank-note circulation merely, then he feared a concatenation of circumstances would precipitate a crisis, the issue of which he must be a bold man who could contemplate without dismay.

said, he could not help thinking that the presentation of a petition, and one too without notice, was a most inconvenient season for discussing the merits of so important a question as the state of the nation. He should not therefore follow the hon. baronet through his details; although if the time were a fit one, he was not without ample materials for rebutting the inferences which he had drawn front them. Upon one point he ought to concur with the hon. baronet; whose fault it certainly was not that he was deprived of a suitable opportunity of bringing forward the motion of which he had given notice. At the same time he was bound to assure him, that it was not his (Mr. Peel's) fault that the discussion did not come on; for he had attended in his place prepared to argue the whole question with the bon, baronet, and he sincerely believed that the circumstance of not making, a House on that particular night was purely accidental. The subject, however, had certainly been very fully discussed upon another occasion; so that there ought to be no complaint of a denial of hearing. He was far from denying the existence of distress. In many parts of the country that distress was severe, and was accompanied by great privation and suffering. Particularly in the district from which the petition that had been presented by the hon. baronet proceeded was the distress great. He doubted, indeed, if any other part of the kingdom had suffered so much from the effect which the introduction of machinery had had on the hand-looms of the weavers, as that district. It was impossible to look at the efforts of the population in that dis- trict to live, and at the inadequacy of their wages, without painful commiseration. But he very much feared, that while the existence of severe distress was admitted, it must also be admitted, that, in the complicated relations of society, it was impossible to apply a satisfactory remedy. He was convinced that, on mature reflection, the hon. baronet, the member for. Cornwall, would see that the solution of a mathematical problem was a thing entirely different from the administration of practical relief in a case such as that in question. Those persons, must not be supposed to, he indifferent to the distress, who were adverse, to the policy of entering upon the inquiry recommended by the other side of the House., They felt that, unless they could be pretty confident that such an inquiry would be productive of a satisfactory result, it might aggravate the evil which it was intended to diminish. The hon. member for Aberdeen had declared that there were at least two subjects which ought to be fully investigated before the separation of parliament; namely, the Corn-laws, and the question, of emigration. Now, really, if there were any two topics which had occupied the attention of parliament more than any others, they were precisely those which the hon. member for Aberdeen had described as demanding inquiry, The Corn-laws the hon. member for Aberdeen had himself brought under the consideration of the House but a short time ago, when the subject was fully discussed. The hon. member had himself made a speech on the occasion which lasted three hours and three quarters, and which he had listened with great attention. The hon. member's proposition was to substitute a fixed duty on foreign corn for the present scale of duties; but the House did not agree with him on the subject` Constant fluctuations on such a subject were most injurious. What advantage could accrue to the country, if, on every question, such as that of the Corn-laws, the legislation were never allowed to be settled even for a single year? Having made an experiment respecting it last year, was it desirable for the House to pledge itself to enter into an inquiry, on the subject next year? Were such questions to be always at the mercy of any man who chose to agitate them, and propose that they should be unsettled? If, whenever distress existed in any particular place—distress attri- buted to machinery, or the importation of foreign wool, or the system of Corn-laws—an inquiry was immediately demanded, there would be an end to all confidence, and no one would venture to embark his capital in any commercial enterprise. He must protest, however, against an unwillingness to enter into such inquiries, being considered as an insensibility to distress. With respect to the existing distress, he must say, that he did not take so gloomy a view of the subject as some hon. gentlemen seemed disposed to take. He could not allow that the capital of the country was daily diminishing. Still less could he allow that our commerce was carrying on by the application of capital from which the capitalist received no return. Such might be the case for a single year; but when he heard the same thing stated for eight or ten years, his answer was, that under such circumstances the capital would be withdrawn. Against the allegation, that the capital of the country had diminished, he would state one strong fact. In the year 1815—a period when the currency of the country was increased by a paper circulation—the rental of the county of Lancashire was valued, for the purpose of determining the contributions to the county rate. That valuation was, he believed, perfectly fair. By some persons, however, it had been considered unfair, and another valuation had taken place last year for the same purpose. The valuation of the rental on land and on the manufacturing establishments of Lancashire, in 1815, amounted to three millions. Last year the valuation (although the improvement in the currency would have a tendency to diminish the nominal amount) was four millions. That fact he opposed to the statement, that the manufactures and the agriculture of the country were carrying on at a positive loss. While he made this statement, however, he admitted the evil of the unequal distribution of wealth in this country, and the general disadvantage which sprung from the accumulation of great wealth in the hands of a few individuals; but this was unavoidable and emanated from the same cause as the increased production of machinery, which in its improved condition became so extensively a substitute for manual labour. In conclusion, it was, he feared, a lamentable fact, that so many causes combined to produce this state of things, that any attempt to legislate, with a view to the cor- rection of any of them by the application of specific measures, instead of mitigating, would aggravate all the evils of which the suffering classes of society complained. The government would, however give their best attention to the subject.

said, that he should remind the right hon. gentleman who spoke last, and who had blamed honorable friends of his, because they entered into lengthened discussions, on the mere presentation of a petition, that at the very last meeting of the House but one, the right hon. gentleman himself had taken the opportunity of a question, whether a petition should or should not lie on the table, to deliver a long and elaborate speech, on the general condition of the country. He had indeed seized that opportunity, to deliver to the House a speech, which had been to all appearance originally intended for another purpose; viz. for the frustrated motion of his hon. friend the member for Cornwall; which a little before had been got rid of by an adroit parliamentary manœuvre. The representations which he hears of distress, the right hon. gentleman says, he believes to be exaggerated; and one ground for that belief is, that he has for the last ten sessions heard similar representations. He is mistaken: the last ten sessions of parliament have furnished two at least, in which he heard no complaints of distress from any part of the country. In 1824, and in 1825,a period when his Currency bill of 1819 was virtually abolished, and was a dead letter, the productive classes experienced great and universal prosperity. One cause of that degree of distress the existence of which he admits, is to be found, he believes, in improvements and extension of machinery; but how would he reconcile that theory with the fact of the prosperous condition of 1824 and 1825, when machinery existed in as great extension as now, and with as many improvements? He must look to other causes, than improvements in machinery, for an explanation of the present embarrassment of the country. He, (Mr. Attwood) would not insult the sufferings of the people, by entering into any dispute or calculation respecting their exact degree; the question material for the decision of the House, was not whether some of the statements made to them were or were not overstrained; not what was the precise degree of suffering which the people were able to endure; but whether there did not exist throughout the country, a condition of difficulty and embarrassment which demanded imperatively the attention and, consideration of parliament; of whatever body exercised in the country the functions, and was responsible for the duties of government. His hon. friend and colleague (Mr. Baring) thought that some of the representations they had heard of the distress of the productive classes, were exaggerated. He agreed in that with the right hon. secretary. But he (Mr. Attwood) would tell them, not disputing the question of degree; and he called the attention of the House to the fact, which he asserted boldly, and without fear of contradiction from any quarter; he would tell them, that whether the representations they heard, were exaggerated or not exaggerated; the real existing condition of all the main and principal departments of productive industry throughout the country, was such, that if their condition were not improved, those branches of industry could not maintain their ground. If they were content with the present condition of manufactures and trade, and viewed the present rate of profits, and of wages, which existed, as satisfactory; let them fix that rate if they were able, and secure it permanently; and the consequence would be, that in less than five years from the time he spoke, all the principal manufactures of the country would be annihilated; the capitalist, the laborer, and their productions. That was the real state of the productive industry of the country. Of some of the most important branches of manufacture, he knew it to be the condition and made the assertion from personal knowledge. He believed it to be true of manufactures generally, and appealed to gentlemen hearing him, many of them great manufacturers, in various branches of trade. It would greatly surprise him to hear from any one of those gentlemen, that there existed in the country, any great manufacture which was not at that moment carried on with a loss, and with a rapid destruction of the capital by which it was supported. Whilst such was the condition of the owners of capital; and amidst that state of suffering, to which it was impossible to shut their eyes; of want, famine, and despair, under which millions of laborers were sinking; he would not ask, whether this or any particular member of parliament could be justly censured, in not bringing the state of the country under their consideration. Of individual members he spoke not; but he would say to the House of Commons, that to the character of that House collectively, it was an indelible reproach, that they sat as helpless spectators of the ruin which surrounded them; that they viewed with apathy and indifference the distress of the people; that they contented themselves with assertions, that it was now too late to investigate the causes of national decline; that the session was too far advanced—a session occupied hitherto with affairs, possessing little importance beyond that which they derived from the exaggerated violence of party conflict. By that proceeding had the House of Commons marked itself out to the eyes of the ruined country, as a body utterly inefficient and incompetent, to discharge at that crisis, the most important duties of legislation and government. Let the House reflect on the representations just made by the hon. member for Newark, undeniable as they were. There is no apparent cause, said the hon. member for the distress which afflicts the country: the country is in the midst of profound peace; the people are as numerous as at any former time, and as much distinguished by industry and prudence; the country still possesses the same abundant capital as ever; it is in the midst of all these sources of prosperity and wealth that universal ruin threatens the productive classes. In such a state of things, and with a growing opinion amongst the people, that the House itself had been the occasion of their ruin; was it fitting for the House of Commons to be told, that they had arrived at the close of a session, and that it was too late to enter on import business? Neither had the petitioners, whose complaints were now before the House, or the hon. member who presented their petition, been treated with fairness. They have been told, or rather taunted with it, that they have pointed out no specific measures of relief; have suggested no methods of removing the evils of which they complained. A few nights back only, a petition was presented from the inhabitants of Birmingham, not subject to such an objection. Those petitioners, submitted to the House, a clear and distinct account of the origin of all their difficulties; they traced those difficulties, and ascribed them, to measures of that House itself; and they pointed out in distinct terms, adequate measures of relief and remedy. But the petition from Birmingham was viewed with no more favour, than was this from Blackburn, the proofs that petition offered, were answered by assertions, carelessly made, unsupported by facts or arguments; nor was the petition itself treated without some degree of ridicule. The course of proceeding, which the House has thought it befitting its character and duties to adopt, has been this; they refuse of themselves to enter into any investigation of the causes of the distress of the country. They refuse to receive with candour, or a decent consideration, the result of the examination of a great body of the people into those causes; that result being presented to them in the form of petition: and they now answer the statements of another large body of petitioners, who confine themselves to a representation of their extreme distress, and to soliciting for investigation and relief; by telling them of the late period of the session, and that they have failed to point out any specific method of relief.

said, he did not rise to prolong this irregular discussion, but he must vindicate the government from the charges which had been brought against them. And first, he must remark, that he could not participate in the complaint which had been made against the House of Commons, of mispending their time in the discussions which preceded the adjustment of a question of vital importance to that peace and tranquillity which were essential to the promotion of domestic industry. It was said, that in the years 1824 and 1825 the country was apparently in a prosperous condition, and the hon. baronet complained, that at that time no warning voice was sent forth to point out the dangers which were calculated to arise from th alteration of the currency. Now, he had more than once, at the time specified, warned the House and the country against the mad speculations which were then afloat, and which he predicted must end in the ruin of those engaged in them. He was therefore exonerated from the charge of having neglected to warn sufferers of the danger which, in 1825, hung over the speculations in which they had so improvidently embarked. But, the House should not forget what were the causes of the disasters to which he alluded. Was not the main-spring of those speculations, the fatal facility of obtaining credit upon an unsound foundation? And it was the re-action from such violent experiments which had caused the present depression. He entirely agreed with his right hon. friend in the principle which ought to govern parliament in questions of this nature. They ought not to inquire upon partial grounds, and to let loose individual theories, as remedies for particular distress. And he could not help remarking, when the hon. baronet denied that foreign trade was any criterion of the growth of national industry, that it had hitherto at least been considered as one of its ingredients. Thus, when the rapid increase of shipping in the foreign trade could not be denied, gentlemen turned round and said, "Oh! we give you this, for we know the reason. The owners are obliged to employ their ships at sea without profit, to prevent their rotting alongside the walls of our harbors." He would, however, tell the hon. baronet that there must be a mistake in his estimate, the home-trade was undoubtedly valuable, from the evident increase of consumption. Agriculture had improved, particularly in Ireland: there was, besides, a great daily importation from abroad. What did this show, but a great consumption of the produce of the soil, and, when coupled with the general exports, an evident improvement in the general affairs of the country. It was the same with the hon. baronet's position as to the shipping of the country. That some were sailing to prevent their rotting in port might stand as a fact, if it were not confuted by the more palpable fact, that the ship-builders were adding new ships to their stock,—an experiment very unlikely to be resorted to by them, unless they found a profitable employment for their capital. It was quite impossible that the shipping of the country could have increased as it had done this year beyond any former period of our history, without a corresponding increase of foreign trade, and necessarily a profitable employment of capital. His right hon. friend had, in describing the rental of Lancashire, given the House a new fact, to show what a delusion prevailed as to the real state and condition of the country. Its capital had generally improved; and of course its industry must have flourished. There were, he knew, local examples of distress, but they were not confined to this country,—they were found in the manufactures of the United States of America,—they were found also in France, where distress prevailed in that greatest branch of her agriculture, the production of wine; but there was likewise, as in Great Britain, the strong evidence of those great local improvements which were sure to attend a state of peace and tranquillity—the laying down of new roads, the general improvement of all internal communications, and the cultivation of those arts which enlarge the sphere of human enjoyments. It was quite consistent with these valuable improvements that there should exist much of individual suffering; but he rather thought that were they to go into a committee of inquiry to ascertain the causes by which the latter was produced, it would be found that legislative enactments would have no power to apply a remedy for the losses sustained by the wrong employment of individual capital. His firm conviction was, after listening to the statement of every cause which had been assigned for the evil, and every suggestion of remedy which had been offered, that the attempt to investigate the one, and more particularly to act upon the others, would produce an aggravation, instead of a diminution of the evils; and if pressed, as some gentlemen seemed to think advisable, might end in a convulsion of property, and perhaps a convulsion of all the institutions of this great country.

concurred in all that had been said of the indifference shown by parliament and the government to the distresses of the country, and complained of the unequal pressure of the prevailing system of taxation; which, instead of mainly falling upon property and wealth, was directed against the productive industry of the people. It was this untoward action of the system of government which had given an impulse to machinery, and depressed the means of subsistence to the labouring poor. If a different course were pursued, he was persuaded that the sum of human misery might be diminished, and with it all the incidental crime to which that misery led. If heavy taxation were necessary for the maintenance of their great national institutions, far better would it be, that twenty-five per cent should be levied upon the real property of the country, than that the sums at present assessed should be drawn from the hard-earned fruits of the working classes.

observed, that some gentlemen appeared to think the introduction of machinery a great and permanent evil, and he granted that the unavoidable effect of it was to throw out of employment a number of persons engaged in hand labour; but although machinery might produce temporary distress, he was satisfied that the emergency once passed, as it soon must be the evil would be followed by an immense increase of employment. To the introduction of the steam-engine and the various improvements connected with it, was owing the present state of employment in Lancashire. Even now, he was happy to say, there was some appearance of increased activity in that part of the country. He entertained considerable hope, that if the East-India monopoly were only put an end to, we should see a great improvement in our commercial affairs, and might look for an extension of trade not only with the East Indies but with China. He thought there was no reason for entertaining the gloomy apprehensions which some hon. members seemed disposed to indulge in.

said, he thought there was good ground for inquiry, when we looked at the present state of the country. It had been said, that in some instances, the complaints of the people were groundless, and that they refused to work. This might be the case in a few instances, but it could not be so generally. There was not, he believed, a parish or a township in Lancashire, in which the people had not to be supported, to a greater or lesser extent, by contributions in consequence of the deficiency of employment. It was not safe to deny these contributions. If persons did so, they ran the risk of being insulted, or of having their grounds trespassed upon. He confessed he saw no prospect of a removal of the difficulties under which we laboured; although an hon. baronet seemed to expect much relief from the opening of the East-India trade.

, said,he could not suffer the present occasion to pass without entering his protest against the extraordinary doctrines which had been advanced from all sides of the House. Great distress was allowed by all to exist; some asserting that it was fearful and appalling, yet all seemed to concur in the impracticability of any remedy: now this for one he unequivocally denied. Oppressive and cruel as were the sufferings of the people, and aggravated as were their nature and en- durance, he contended that the remedy was obvious, simple, and just. Inquiry was the fashionable cant of parliament; but the country was wearied with the sound, for inquiry was only another term for delusion and delay. If hon. members were ignorant, or rather affected to be ignorant, of the cause of our distresses and of the true remedy, the people were not: every man of common sense and common honesty well understood the national disease, and the sole cure. The truth must be told: the country demanded, was entitled to, and must have, relief from the grinding oppression of our taxation. All other plans and schemes were hollow shifting and worthless pretence. It was utterly impossible that the affairs of the country could move on with such a pressure. War taxes contracted through the agency of a paper currency could not be sustained when that currency was superseded, and consequently contracted, by metallic money. To deny this simple position was to outrage every feeling of common sense and the experience of all countries. One of two things must be done: either we must have a substantial reduction of our taxes, and a material alteration in their character—which was the proper plan; or we must again open the floodgates of paper money. The first would save us; the last would defer our ruin, but eventually make it more certain. Early in the last session we were told that the finance committee—composed, as it was said, in a sincere spirit of economy, and made up of men of all orders and opinions—was to look into our resources with a keen and searching eye, in order to determine what could and ought to be done; and yet, after sitting an entire session, one thing only was effected, and that was its dissolution. He wished his active friend, the member for Montrose, would disclose the secret of this proceeding. And we were now told by an ex-member of the government, that the country could expect no relief in this respect, and that all the suggestions that had been made were pregnant with mischief, and threatened the existence of our consecrated institutions. Under this delicate apprehension for our institutions the people were to rest content, with the assurance that, without taxation, we should cease to be blessed with placemen and sinecurists. If such was the hopeless state of the country, he would ask the right hon. gentleman, why he encouraged the delusion of the finance committee, and the expectation that its labors would be, practically useful? The plain truth was, that no man suggested the real remedy, and the people were made the instrument of their own undoing. All the petitions they presented and all the long and elaborate orations we heard upon corn, currency, ships, and free trade, were so many schemes of delusion. That House was quite satisfied with things as they were, and all that was aimed at was, to keep the public mind in a divided and distracted state upon matters which they little understand, and of little consequence if they did. If his voice could be heard to the remotest parts of the kingdom, and his advice were taken, it would be to proclaim one subject, and one subject only, and to petition for one object only namely, an honest reduction of taxation The spirit of parliament he contended, was a selfish spirit. Night after night did honorable members grumble in a thousand ways against the Poor-laws, and were trying by every contrivance to lessen their amount and to shift the burthen; but not a word did we hear of the intolerable pressure of the tythes—an imposition which bore far heavier, and with infinite less justice, upon agriculture. For his part, he would far rather that 10,000 parsons should be a little inconvenienced, than that millions of industrious citizens should be borne down with sorrow and starvation. The country ought to know how honourable members—those who talked long and loud upon corn and currency—acted when any question of practical relief was suggested. They either walked out of the House in troops, or remained to swell the ignoble triumphs of the Treasury bench. He was astonished at the plea which had been urged, that it was too late to do any good this session. When could it be too late to do good? Did we find it was too late to do evil? Unhappily, no. Look at that monstrous measure which was brought into the House and carried through it within the last ten days—a bill to augment the fees and perpetuate the abuses of one of the worst of our many bad courts, called the Ecclesiastical Regulation bill. When private interests were to be promoted, or a Scandalous job confirmed, no period was too late; but to talk of relieving the people, or to care about them, was to touch the sensibilities of honorable members to the highest pitch of anguish, for which there was no cure but in a prorogation. He had thus briefly spoken his sentiments, as a protest against the ungenerous doctrines which were advocated, and would conclude by declaring it his deliberate opinion, that nothing was easier than to place the affairs of the country in a sound, healthy, and prosperous position; that under able and honest councils this country might rise pre-eminent over all her difficulties, and become as distinguished in arts and peace, as she had been glorious in arms.

said, that twenty years ago, in the neighborhood of Blackburn, twenty thousand pieces of calico were made weekly, and an immense sum was annually distributed in wages on that account. At the present moment, from forty thousand to fifty thousand pieces a-week were manufactured: these perhaps afforded the weaver only 15d. a piece; so that compared with the amount of wages twenty years ago an infinitely diminished sum was now paid to the Population, notwithstanding they did more than double the work performed at the former period. He confessed he shrunk from considering this as a proof of prosperity. An hon. baronet had pointed out a hope, as arising from the opening of the trade with the east, but the people could not live upon hope. Besides, he doubted whether opening new markets would benefit the community to the extent imagined. Fresh markets had been opened of late years: did the rate of wages improve in proportion? If we did not protect labour, though we added the markets of the east to those of the west, and (if it were possible) the markets of the moon to those of the earth, it would be all in vain. He thought that the capital of this country was not properly distributed. We did not act on the principle of Paley; who said it was the duty of a legislature especially to protect the interests of the poor, for the interests of the rich would be protected by themselves. He thought the spirit of our legislation essentially wrong. We had heard how prosperous various trades and occupations were. The petitioners denied that they were in state of prosperity. He hoped the prayer of the petition would be attended to, and that if it could not be acted on this session, it would at least live in the recollection of parliament and ministers until the next.

said, that if we could not offer the petitioners a remedy for their distress, we were at least bound to show them that to administer a remedy was not in our power. But he contended that one remedy for the evil complained of was in our power: it consisted in a reduction of taxation. We should recollect that if ever there existed a time for looking at the amount of taxation, with a view to its diminution, it was in a period of profound peace. Yet the present government, without giving any reason had not renewed the Finance Committee, the object of which was, to reduce the amount of taxes. A reduction might be effected if a proper inquiry were made into our financial system. Great relief could be afforded by altering the mode of taxation. We taxed malt and beer to the amount of 7,000,000l. Why not confine the duty to malt alone? At present, we had an establishment of excisemen which cost 370,000l. All this expense for the collection of the beer duty might be dispensed with, and a great relief would thus be afforded. There were many other taxes levied much to the inconvenience of particular parties, and with little advantage to the country. If government did not reduce the amount of taxation, it would be taking more responsibility on itself, than any government that had preceded it.

Ordered to lie on the table.