House of Commons
Tuesday, July 16, 1850
Mercantile Marine (No. 2) Bill
Order for Committee read.
, the House resolved itself into Committee on this Bill.
Clause 31.
asked, upon what principle would the shipping offices be in ports?
said, that in every port where there were ships engaged in foreign trade of more than 30,000 tons burden, a local marine board and shipping office would be established. The Board of Trade would also take care to extend them to places where the foreign trade appeared to be increasing. Care would be taken that it was not made a matter of favour.
Clause agreed to; Clause 32 struck out; Clauses 33 to 48 inclusive agreed to.
Clause 49.
said, it would be very hard upon shipowners to make them pay a month's wages to a sailor who might be left behind, as the ship would be at sea, and there would be no means of rebutting the statement of the sailor.
thought that such a matter might be safely left to the discretion of the magistrate who would have to decide on the case. He wished to protect the rights of the sailors as well as those of the shipowners.
moved that the clause be postponed on the ground that, as it now stood, the shipowner could have no remedy before the magistrate. He thought at a future stage words might be introduced into the clause to obviate the difficulty.
said, he could not consent to the postponement. He hoped, when the report was brought up, to be able to propose such an Amendment as would obviate the objection. The clause had the sanction of the magistrates of the Thames Police Court, and of Mr. Rushton, of Liverpool.
said, that in nine out of ten cases of sailors being left behind, it was their own fault. It would be a great hardship to make the shipowner pay wages to a sailor, as the ship had sailed, and he could not produce the captain.
felt assured that the best course would be, to leave the decision to the discretion of the magistrate, for there was nothing in that Bill to compel him to give judgment upon a mere ex parte statement. He did not think it was reasonable at that period of the Session to require the postponement of the clause.
thought it was only reasonable to ask for the postponement of the clause, to give time for the consideration of the Amendment to be introduced into it.
said, they could not always depend upon a fair decision upon the part of the magistrate, for he had heard of in- stances where sailors took care to wait until they could state their case before a particular magistrate, as they felt pretty sure of a decision in their favour.
Question put, "That Clause 49 be postponed."
The Committee divided:—Ayes 19; Noes 48: Majority 29.
strongly protested against proceeding with this clause in its present shape; he should therefore again divide the Committee on the subject.
said, that under those circumstances he would give way as the best means of saving time.
Clause postponed; Clause 50 agreed to.
Clause 51.
moved that the latter part of the clause be struck out. He could not see why they could not leave the matter of wages to be settled between the sailor and the shipowner, as they did between the employed and the employer in all other trades.
could not consent to the Amendment, as the effect of it would be to abolish altogether advance notes. He knew there were many objections to them, and he trusted ultimately the system might be got rid of, but he was informed by persons well acquainted with the subject that they were absolutely necessary at present.
agreed to withdraw his Amendment.
The great object of those who are endeavouring to improve and elevate the character of British seamen, is to reclaim them from those habits of intemperance, debauchery, and improvidence, which are the causes of so much misery to themselves, and injury to those who employ them. If these failings could be corrected, no set or class of men in the world would be so easy or so agreeable to command. Now, the system of advance notes tends to defeat all these endeavours, and to promote, as far as possible, recklessness and improvidence. Those who otherwise would not trust them for a farthing, or give them a single meal on credit, are the very persons who now encourage them to incur debts of all descriptions; to sell or pawn their clothes, bedding, and property, speculating on the profit to be ultimately obtained by these advance notes, which the seaman, in most cases, makes over to these crimps, who take them, charging a heavy discount, and perhaps supplying him with a few articles of inferior clothing at an extravagant price. If, on the other hand, the seaman receives the advance himself, the possession of four or five pounds, which he has not earned, is often too strong a temptation either to violate his engagement, or, at all events, to squander thoughtlessly or improvidently these anticipated wages. If he is a married man, he leaves himself without the power of making any allotment to his family, for he is already in debt to the ship; and if the voyage is not a very long one, he arrives at a foreign port without a farthing to purchase the smallest comfort or indulgence, discouraged and disconcontented, and consequently ready to give way to any temptation which may offer, either to desert, or otherwise misconduct himself. Such are the evil consequences of the system of advance notes to our mercantile marine. All friends to British seamen are unanimous in their earnest desire to abolish them; and I make my present proposition for their limitation to one month's pay only, in the full hope that the time is not far distant when they may be altogether discontinued.
objected to the proposition, as due allowance could not then be made for the length or the nature of the voyage.
said, that a ship's carpenter would require an advance of considerably more to obtain tools. If they restricted the amount in the way proposed, the sailors would be induced to sell their kits.
could not assent to the abolition of advance notes; for, however bad the system, they were at present necessary for seamen. The gallant Admiral, surely, must remember that in the Royal Navy an advance of two months' wages were made to the seamen.
Amendment withdrawn; clause agreed to; as were clauses up to 62 inclusive.
House resumed.
Committee report progress, to sit again on Thursday at Twelve o'clock.
The Late Duke of Cambridge
moved that the House adjourn until to-morrow. He was induced to move this from motives of respect to the worth of the illustrious Prince, whose loss they had to deplore. The House was aware that on that day his remains were consigned to the tomb. Out of respect to that Prince all places of public resort had that day been closed: he was sure the House would adopt his Motion, and post- pone all further business to a future day.
seconded the Motion.
wished some intimation had been made to the Government by the hon. Member of his intention to make this Motion. He was quite sure that it would be admitted that it must be the feeling of every Member of the Government, as well as of that House, to pay every mark of respect to the memory of one so much lamented as the late Duke of Cambridge. He understood that the House of Lords had not adjourned over. He believed, however, that there was no Government business on the paper for this evening, therefore he could not object on that ground. If it was the general feeling of the House that they should postpone the business which stood on the paper, he would not persist in objecting to it. Perhaps, under all circumstances, as the House had been taken somewhat by surprise, the hon. Gentleman would postpone his Motion until five o'clock, when they would consider how they best could show their respect to the memory of his late Royal Highness. He proposed this because it might be inconvenient to adopt a course for which there might be no precedent.
said, it was not from any want of respect that he had not given notice of his intention to the right hon. Gentleman or the Government. As this was not an evening on which there was any Government business, he thought the subject was one upon which the Members of the Government might feel as independent Members of that House. He should certainly persist in his Motion, and would, if necessary, divide the House.
said, that as it appeared to be the general wish of the House that it should at once adjourn, he should not offer any further objection.
The House adjourned at Three o'clock, on account of the funeral of His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge, which took place this day.