asked Mr. Solicitor General for Ireland, How many cases of application for judicial rent were undisposed of in the Land Courts in Ireland on the 1st of May, 1887, and the 1st of May, 1888, respectively?

Sir, the Land Commissioners state that on the 1st of May, 1887, the numbers of fair rent applications undisposed of were in the Land Commission Court 11,773, and in the Civil Bill Court 1,757; on the 1st of May, 1888, the numbers were 63,087 and 4,246 respectively.

asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, What amount of instalments of the purchase money under "The Land Purchase Act, 1885," which fell due on the 1st of November, 1887, remained unpaid on the 1st of May, 1888; and, what amount of instalments of purchase money fell due on the 1st of May, 1888, and what amount of this was not paid on that day?

The total amount of interest and instalments which accrued due in respect of advances under the Purchase of Land Act (Ireland), 1885, from the passing of the Act to the 1st of November, 1887, was £50,910, and of this amount there remained unpaid on the 1st of May, 1888, the sum of £1,281. The amount of interest and instalments which fell due on the 1st of May, 1888, was £39,720; but as these instalments have only just become due, and are collected by means of receivable orders payable through local banks, and not yet returnable, it is impossible to give any satisfactory answer to the hon. Member's second Question.

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, Whether, having regard to the fact that the Returns of Judicial Rents fixed in Ireland are arranged according to counties, and by years ending in August, whereas in the order of the Land Commission varying judicial rents according to the Act of 1887 the areas chosen are Poor Law Unions, and the years commence with the 1st of January and end with the 31st of December, and that consequently, it is impossible to ascertain what the precise effect of the Rent varying Clause of the Land Act of 1887 has been, he will grant the Return standing in the name of the hon. Member for North Meath (Mr. Mahony) for Friday the 4th of May?

The Land Commissioners inform me that the books of rents fixed by the Land Commission and Civil Bill Courts, as also the books in which originating declarations and agreements are entered, are kept according to counties, not Poor Law Unions. To prepare the Return asked for would, therefore, in- volve an inspection of each one of 94,469 agreements, and the division of the entire 194,132 judicial rents into Poor Law Unions, and subsequently making schedules, totals, and percentage calculations. They state that this could only be done by largely augmenting their staff for five or six months, entailing considerable expense, and causing a serious interruption to their regular business. In these circumstances, the Government cannot undertake to grant the Return in question.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, Whether he is now aware that the Church Conservative Club, some time last month, issued a list of 103 prizes, varying in value from £15 to 2s. actually drawn in the lottery previously advertised by that Club; whether the numbers of the tickets drawn include one numbered 281,879; whether he has received any Report from the Director of Public Prosecutions, or from the Commissioners of Inland Revenue, or from the Chief Constable, as to any action taken in the matter; and, whether he will lay the Correspondence upon the table?

, in reply, said, he had no specific information as to the facts contained in the first part of the Question; but he had that morning received a letter from the Chief Constable of Lancashire, stating that proceedings had been taken before the magistrates against the Church Conservative Club on a charge of drawing a lottery. He had already informed the House of the action taken by the Director of Public Prosecutions. The correspondence that had taken place contained confidential matter, and he must decline to place it on the Table.

asked the President of the Board of Trade, Whether his attention has been called to the Report of one of the Assistant Secretaries to the Board of Trade on the subject of Registry and Inspection of Land Boilers, and especially to the following paragraph on page 19:—

"Although it was not deemed to be necessary to encumber the draft Boiler Registry and Inspection Bill with clauses on the subject, I think this question of properly qualified attendants may well be considered with those of inspection and registration of boilers. It would be well to secure, as far as possible, that the boilers are properly constructed and kept in good order; but if they are entrusted to careless and incompetent men disasters must happen. I must, however, in fairness, add that in most of the cases of explosion the boiler attendants have not been at fault;"

and, whether the Government will consider the recommendation of so great an authority with a view to legislation on the subject?

I am aware of the Report relating to the Registry and Inspection of Land Boilers to which the hon. Member refers, and would call his attention to that part of his quotation which states that in most of the cases of explosion the attendants have not been at fault. The Government are not prepared to undertake legislation of the kind desired by the hon. Member.

asked the First Commissioner of Works, Whether Her Majesty's Government have in contemplation any arrangement to supply the blank on the flat top of the Arch south of Hyde Park Corner caused by the deposition of the late Duke of Wellington; or, if not, whether they will restore the Duke?

The Government do not intend to propose any Estimate for supplying the blank on the top of the Arch south of Hyde Park Corner. The House will probably remember that a Committee was formed some time ago under the presidency of the Prince of Wales, and a considerable sum was subscribed in answer to the appeal which His Royal Highness, acting with great public spirit, had made for the purpose of ornamenting the vacant spaces created by the improvements at Hyde Park Corner. Under the direction of this Committee, the new statue of the Duke of Welling- ton by Mr. Boehm, with a handsome pedestal, will be placed opposite Apsley House in the course of the Autumn of this year; and the remainder of the money subscribed for the purpose will be applied to further beautifying the open spaces. But the funds at present at the disposal of His Royal Highness do not admit of his undertaking to place a suitable work of art on the summit of the Arch, involving probably an outlay of more than £20,000. As to the suggestion of the hon. Member that the old statue of the Duke should be restored, I am afraid it cannot be entertained; it stands at present at Aldershot on a very appropriate site. It cost over £3,000 to take it there, and I am not prepared to pay as much more for getting it back.

I beg to give Notice that on an early day I will call attention to the distressing results that followed the rash removal of an old landmark dear to the inhabitants of London.

asked the Secretary to the Treasury, Why the Secretary of the Board of Works has refused to sanction the payment of accounts presented by Messrs. Lydon, Brothers, of Galway, for iron work done for the Galway Harbour Commissioners, although the accounts were passed by the Engineer and Chairman; and, why no reply was given to letters demanding payment?

I am informed that this claim was only received yesterday at the Board of Works from the Secretary to the Harbour Commissioners, and will be dealt with in due course. The Board, as receiver over the harbour, cannot discharge any such claim except upon the certificate of the Harbour Commissioners.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, For what offence a convict, named Wright, confined in Portsmouth Prison, was in irons at the time when, as alleged, he recently assaulted Chief Warder George; upon how many occasions, and during what number of hours in the aggregate, has Wright been in irons since the 1st of January last; and, what other punishments (if any) have been inflicted on Wright since that date?

This convict was in irons for having made a savage attack with a knife upon another convict. This is the only occasion on which he has been in irons since the 1st of January. He has been in irons since the 21st of March—that is, 42 days, or 1,008 hours. Since the same date he has been twice punished by dietary punishment, and once by close confinement for three days.

asked the President of the Board of Trade, If he will be prepared, on the 8th of May, on the occasion of the Motion of the hon. Member for East Northamptonshire (Mr. Channing), on the subject of the safe working of railways, or sooner, to inform the House whether the smaller and branch railways have yet been called upon to adopt, or have adopted, the same automatic brake as is in use by the leading trunk lines of this country, and whether such brake is capable of universal coupling with any other rolling stock, so as to insure safe interchange of traffic with all other railways; and, whether he has, or can obtain, any Reports of the results of the working of automatic brakes on the Indian Railways?

The Board of Trade have no power to call upon the Railway Companies to adopt any particular brake; but the Circular of the 30th of August, 1877, setting out the conditions which, in the opinion of the Board of Trade, brakes should fulfil, was sent to the small as well as to the great Companies. And the half-yearly Return presented to Parliament in accordance with the Act of 1878 deals with the brakes of all the Companies. The Board of Trade have no information as regards the working of automatic brakes in India, but will communicate with the India Office. I am, however, informed that such brakes are only used in India to a very limited extent.

asked the hon. Member for the Knutsford Division of Cheshire, as representing the Metropolitan Board of Works, Whether the Board have received and considered a letter from the Wandsworth Common Protection Association, respecting the damage now being done to the Common by the vehicular traffic of the carman and contractor tenant of the Patriotic Fund Commissioners, and with what result; is the action at law still pending between the Board, as Conservators of the Common, and the Commissioners, at what stage is it at this moment, and what are the actual issues to be tried in it; is there any way which the Board can devise for settling this dispute, and terminating the damage, otherwise than by litigation, between two Public Bodies both using public funds; and, is it a fact that, if the Patriotic Fund Commissioners succeed in the litigation, the effect will be that 19½ acres of land of the Common, which are admitted by the Commissioners not to be required for the purposes of their Trust, may remain a market garden for 42 years. and be a means of perpetuating the damage to the Common and annoyance and deprivation to the public using the Common?

in reply, said, that the Metropolitan Board of Works had received, and were considering, a letter from the Wandsworth Common Protection Society on the subject referred to, and the writer had been informed that it would receive due consideration. The action, it was hoped, might be averted if the negotiations were brought to a satisfactory conclusion. As to the last paragraph of the Question, the Metropolitan Board of Works were not in possession of the terms of the agreement between the Patriotic Fund Commissioners and their tenant.

The Commissioners have not granted any lease in the case in question for a period exceeding 21 years, nor do they stand committed to any renewal of the lease at its expiry. It is understood that the tenant is managing Director of a Company which carries on the work of carmen; but such a position has no connection with his tenancy of ground belonging to the Commissioners, nor could he, under the terms of his tenancy, make his land or farm buildings available for such purpose. Communications are at present taking place in a friendly spirit between the Commissioners and the Metropolitan Board of Works relative to a question of right of way on Wandsworth Common. Matters of such a character are managed by the Executive and Finance Committee of the Fund under the orders of the Commissioners.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty, In what condition No. 35 First Class Torpedo Boat was allowed to leave Portsmouth; whether extensive leaks manifested themselves, as stated in The Times of the 23rd of April, in the wake of the crew's living compartment, and also in the condenser and collision compartments, eight inches of water being made in one night; whether hand pumps, through defects, ceased to operate, and the steam ejector was obliged to be used, with deleterious results to the boilers; whether, if these statements are correct, he can give any explanation as to who was responsible for such a state of affairs, and what steps will be taken to prevent their occurrence in the future; and, whether similar weakness exists in other service torpedo boats unfitting them to withstand the strains of their engines and the force of the sea?

No. 35 Torpedo Boat was perfectly sound when she left England. She had been carefully examined on the slip before launching, and neither on launching, or during the steam trials to which she was subjected before leaving, did she show any signs of leaking or any weakness. Two days after leaving Devonport she developed a leak, and it was ascertained that one rivet had gone, and that 11 others were leaking. The fact that she had been perfectly tight up to this time points to the conclusion that some special circumstance, such as an unusually heavy blow from the sea when being driven in the Bay of Biscay or collision with some floating material, must have caused the leakage. The hand pump did not work satisfactorily, and the steam ejector had to be used; but without, so far as has been ascertained, any injurious effect on the boiler. Everything was done at the Dockyard to secure that the boats were in all respects complete and fit for sea. There is no reason to suppose that the service torpedo boats are weak or unfit to perform the service for which they were constructed.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty, What experiments have been made since his reply on the subject last year in the direction of continuous steaming for lengthened periods with vessels of different classes in Her Majesty's Navy; and with what results?

The continuous steaming trials referred to by the hon. Gentleman, and which are ordered to be carried out in all ships after commissioning, have taken place in 10 ships of various classes, the result in all cases being quite satisfactory.

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, Whether he is aware the training of the Tyrone Militia will begin on the 6th of June, and last for 27 days; and, whether Colonel L. M. Buchanan and Major R. A. Miller of that regiment are also respectively Clerk of the Peace and Registrar of the County Court, which will be sitting at Dungannon on the 19th of June, Strabane 26th of June, Clogher 29th of June, Omagh 2nd of July, and how do they propose discharging their civil duties for three Divisions of the county, and also attend to their military responsibility during the time of training?

, in reply, said, he understood that on this occasion Colonel Buchanan would exercise his statutory right of getting his duties discharged by deputy. Major Miller purposed to apply for military leave for a few days, on the ground that his duties as Registrar would clash with his regimental duties.

asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, If his attention has been called to the action of the Income Tax Commissioners, who have refused to allow exemption in the payment of Income Tax to certain Charitable Educational Institutions, which Institutions have formerly been allowed such exemption; whether such alteration is in accordance with the opinion of the Legal Advisers of the Department; and, whether, having regard to the fact that Public Schools, such as Eton, are exempted from the payment of Income Tax, he is prepared to recommend to the Income Tax Commissioners that the exemption formerly allowed to all Charitable Educational Institutions be continued, and thus accord the same privilege to the Schools or Colleges of the poorer classes as is enjoyed by those of the richer?

The action of the Special Commissioners of Income Tax in refusing to allow the exemption in question is in accordance, not only with the opinion of the Legal Advisers of the Department, but also with a recent judicial decision. The statutory exemption granted to public schools under Schedule A of the Income Tax Acts is not restricted to the schools of the richer classes, but is enjoyed by all public schools of all classes alike.

asked the Secretary of State for War, Whether an agreement has yet been arrived at between the War Office and the India Office as to the basis on which the Indian Government should pay for Home effective charges, or whether it is the fact that no definite arrangement on this point exists as to the future, and that even the accounts of the last six years remain open and without any decision having been come to on this subject?

, in reply, said, an agreement had not yet been arrived at on the extremely difficult subject of the payment of Home Charges by India; but an early settlement was anticipated by the Committee under the Presidency of the Earl of Northbrook. The main charge has been agreed upon up to the 31st of March, 1885; but the payment of deferred pay for the three years then ending had still to be adjusted. The special claims now under consideration were those for exceptional years during which large reinforcements were sent to India.

gave Notice that on the Motion to into Committee on the Indian Budget he would call attention to the extravagant nature of many of the Indian Home Charges.

asked the Secretary of State for War, On whose advice and responsibility it was decided not to hold a preliminary inquiry in the case of Major Templer; who is responsible for the employment of Detective Straid, who is stated in sworn affidavits to have endeavoured to collect evidence as to identity by bribes, and generally for the manner in which evidence was collected; who presented the evidence so collected to the Deputy Judge Advocate General for his opinion as to a primâ facie case; who is responsible for the General Regulations dealing with the admission of foreigners and other privileged persons to inspect Government arsenals and works, and for the Special Regulations or Orders, if any, under which the balloon arrangements were shown to Italian officers in Egypt by Major Whistler Smith, and at Chatham by Major Elsdale; what is the post to which Major Elsdale has been transferred; out of what moneys is the compensation to Major Templer to be paid; and, whether any portion of it is to be paid by those officials responsible for the blunder?

A preliminary inquiry was held to ascertain if there were primâ facie grounds for further proceedings. A formal Court of Inquiry was, from the circumstances, considered useless; and the only inquiry which could be satisfactory to the Department, and to the accused officer at the same time, was held to be a court martial, taking evidence on oath. Detective Straid was employed under the orders of the Director of Criminal Prosecutions, and the evidence generally was collected by the Legal Department of the Treasury. All the correspondence on the subject, with the statements of witnesses who were prepared to testify, was referred to the Deputy Judge Advocate General by the Adjutant General's Department at the War Office. The Secretary of State is responsible generally for the Rules under which foreigners are admitted to Government works. There were not any Special Regulations under which the Italian officers were admitted to view military balloons. Major Elsdale has been transferred to ordinary corps duty. With reference to the last two paragraphs of the Question, it is not contemplated to pay compensation to Major Templer; but his costs will be paid, and the money will be provided in Votes 3 and 10.

May I ask what the right hon. Gentleman means by the Secretary of State being responsible generally for these Regulations?

said, he meant that when Regulations for the admission of foreigners were made by a Government Department they were submitted for the approval of the Secretary of State.

asked, by whom the preliminary inquiry was held; and whether, before any arrest was ordered, any communication was made to Major Templer by the War Office or any other Department asking him to explain the circumstances of the charge against him?

said, he would rather that Notice was given of the Question. Of course, the preliminary inquiry was made by the Military Authorities at the War Office.

asked the Secretary of State for War, Whether it is the intention of the War Office Authorities to send the Armagh Militia to Holywood, County Down, for training and rifle practice in May next; whether the cost of conveyance, &c., will be about £500; or, if not, how much; and, whether the Armagh Town Commissioners have offered to provide, and have actually secured, a suitable rifle range at Armagh at a cost of £80; and, if so, will the War Office Authorities reconsider their decision, in view of the saving to be effected by allowing the Militia to remain in Armagh for training, &c. as usual?

The Armagh Militia will proceed to Holywood for training and musketry, at a cost of £258 for conveyance both ways. The Armagh Town Commissioners are in negotiation for a plot of ground which would be suitable for the purpose, but it is not understood that the matter is settled; and, in any case, the land could not be got ready for the present training.

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, Whether he is aware that landlords in Ireland are using the power given them as to notices of eviction by registered letter, under the 7th section of "The Land Law (Ireland) Act, 1887," for the purpose of compelling their tenants to purchase their holdings at extravagant prices; whether he can state if it is a fact that two tenants, named Peter Marron and Owen Byrne, of Tully parish and County of Louth, on the estate of Mr. Arthur J. Hamill, were upwards of six months sued by ejectment process and decreed for nonpayment of arrears of old rent; whether these tenants, with others on same estate, had fair rents fixed by the Court, and the old rents were reduced from 40 to 50 per cent; whether notices of eviction were served in the above two cases, and the six months having elapsed, and the tenants having been unable to pay the old exorbitant rents and costs claimed in the notices, the landlord has obliged them to enter into agreements for purchase of their holdings at 25 years' purchase; and, whether the Land Commission will in such cases sanction sales so brought about?

I am not aware that landlords in Ireland are acting as alleged in the first paragraph of this Question. The Land Commissioners inform me that Marron had a fair rent fixed in May last, at a reduction of nearly 50 per cent, but that Byrne's application to have a fair rent fixed still awaits a hearing. They further state that no application has been received from either of those men under the Land Purchase Act. The Commissioners have repeatedly intimated that, having to administer an Act whose operations are founded on the free contracts of the parties, they would be wholly opposed to any coercion being exercised to induce either tenants or landlords to enter into such contracts.

asked the Postmaster General, Whether the Post Office Employés Mutual Guarantee Association (Limited) is conducted upon compulsory or voluntary principles; if Mr. Freeling Lawrence, a chief clerk in the Secretary's Department, is correctly reported to have said at the annual meeting, in praise of the Local Postmasters, that they were putting not only their clerks and telegraphists, but also their postmen, under bond; if so, whether this is a fact, and how far such Postmasters are justified in requiring safeguards from officers of the Established Staff not required at the outset of their official career; and, whether a clerk taking temporary charge of an office in the Metropolitan District has to pay the full amount required from the permanent holder of the post, or whether the latter's payment covers the responsibility of his substitute; and, if not, what is the reason?

The Association to which the hon. Member refers, and which has been formed by the staff solely for their own advantage, is conducted on voluntary principles. I understand that the words attributed to the Chairman of the Association are substantially correct. In some cases it may be necessary to take security from postmen, and such has been the practice to a limited extent for some years. Each case must, however, be decided on its merits. I have no wish or intention to extend the practice unnecessarily; and it is open to any postman who is asked to give security to appeal, through his superior officer, to me, when I should investigate the case. No such appeal has been made to me. I have recently sanctioned an arrangement which will meet the point raised in the last paragraph of the hon. Member's Question, without hardship to clerks taking temporary charge of offices, and which will fully protect the Revenue.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, Whether his attention has been drawn to an article in The British Weekly, of the 16th of March, wherein it is stated that—

"There is a grossly indecent literature published in London, but this, as a rule, is very expensive, and only within the reach of wealthy sensualists. A 5s. magazine was till recently published monthly, in which was one coloured picture and vilely indecent letterpress. … What is alarming under this head is the portentous development of translations from French novels. …. The most respectable journals have inserted, and still insert, advertisements of these books. …. When these books first appeared, in a somewhat expensive form, some well-known City bookshops practically did business for a time in nothing else. Now they are being reprinted in cheap forms, and in a little time, we have no doubt, they will be universally circulated over Britain. …. It is significant that they are to be had in the most respectable booksellers' shops;"

and, whether he is prepared to take adequate steps for the suppression of the sale of such indecent and corrupting literature?

, in reply, said, he had consulted the Commissioner of the City Police, and was informed by him that since July last, when the hon. Member asked a similar Question, he had been unable to discover any new publication, or any circulation, that could legitimately be the subject of prosecution. The police of the City and of the Metropolis were fully alive to their duty in this respect; and, under the existing law, they had obtained convictions in a considerable number of cases. If the hon. Member would direct his (Mr. Matthews') attention to any particular case he would do all in his power to secure an enforcement of the law.

asked the President of the Local Government Board, Whether, instead of making the compensation of licence-holders a charge upon the County Rates, he will accept an Amendment to the Local Government Bill authorizing the County Council to allocate to a fund to be used exclusively for the purpose of compensating licence-holders, who are deprived of their licences under Clause 13, the additions which may be made to the existing Licence Duties?

The suggestion as to the allocation of the increased Licence Duties which may be levied is one which deserves consideration; and if an Amendment is moved to the effect referred to, I will undertake that it shall be fully considered by the Government.

asked the Under Secretary of State for India, Whether he has yet received the further information regarding licensed prostitution, which he promised to obtain; whether his attention has been called to further details of the working of the Government system of licensed prostitution recently published by Mr. Dyer; whether, in view of the fact that these statements are substantiated by the publication of official documents, the Government has sufficient evidence to warrant its immediate suppression, as indicated by the Under Secretary; and, whether the Government will undertake that no alternative system shall be permitted to be carried out "regimentally," or otherwise, under evasive Regulations, as suggested by the Quartermaster General of India's Circular Memorandum of the 17th of June, 1886?

asked, whether the hon. Gentleman is aware that Commanding Officers, in accordance with "a Circular Memorandum, dated from the Office of Quartermaster General in India, No. 21, 17th June, 1886, addressed to General Officers commanding Divisions and Districts," and signed E. F. Chapman, Major General, have from time to time sent requisitions, addressed to Cantonment Magistrates, for the supply of "young and attractive women," to serve as licensed prostitutes in the military camps of India; whether Her Majesty's Government is prepared to relieve British Magistrates from the obligation of complying with such requisitions; whether it is a fact that venereal disease among the troops has increased under the existing system; and, whether the Government will promise to take steps to at once free this country and the Government of India from complicity in a system so opposed to the spirit of recent legislation adopted by this House?

asked the hon. Gentleman, whether his attention has been called to a paper, purporting to be a copy of a Memorandum issued from the Office of the Quartermaster General in India, relating to the subject of prostitution; and, whether he is in a position to state if such a document, or any document substantially of that character, has been issued from that or any other Government Office?

The Secretary of State has not received, and has not had time to receive, an answer from the Government of India. He has nothing to add at present to the statement on this subject already made several times to the House—namely, that the Secretary of State is causing full inquiry to be made into these allegations, and that he has taken measures that if such practices as those described exist they shall be stopped forthwith.

asked, when the hon. Gentleman would be able to state the intentions of the Government on the subject of carrying out in India the Resolution of the House of Commons of some Sessions ago against the compulsory examination of women?

asked, whether, in "another place," an answer had not been given that the result of the inquiries made was at present in the hands of the Governor General of India; and, if that were not so, the hon. Gentleman would not think it worth while to telegraph to India to know whether so serious an allegation were true or false?

I think hon. Members will see that after the statement I have made it would be highly unbecoming to make any further statements to-night.

I do not ask the hon. Gentleman to make the statement to-night; but when he will be prepared to state the intentions of the Government.

said, that the first Question he put on this disagree. able subject was on the 24th of February. A long time had elapsed since then, and on ordinary matters of business they could get an answer from India in six hours. He sincerely hoped that before the Whitsuntide Holidays they would get an answer.

Order, order!

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, Whether it is true, as reported in the newspapers, that at the recent Wexford Quarter Sessions, Judge Darley was presented by the Sub-Sheriff with a pair of white gloves, there being no criminal business to go before him, and that the Judge congratulated the Grand Jury on the peaceable state of the county, and stated that in other parts of the county he had also received white gloves for the same reason; whether the districts referred to are districts in which the National League has been suppressed, or which have been proclaimed by the Lord Lieutenant; and, if so, whether he will consider the propriety of withdrawing the proclamations of these districts; and whether he will cause a Return to be presented to Parliament, showing the number of cases during. the past year and a-half in which Judges have been so presented with white gloves on account of the absence of crime?

It is not the case that Judge Darley was presented with white gloves at the recent Wexford Quarter Sessions. As a matter of fact, there were criminal cases to be tried. It appears that at New Ross, the County Court Judge was presented with white gloves, and he congratulated the Grand Jury on the then peaceable state of the county. The hon. Member seems to exaggerate the significance of this event; since the number of criminal cases tried at Quarter Sessions depends not merely on the amount of crime in the district, but also on the number of cases which fall to be tried by other tribunals.

The right hon. Gentleman has not replied to the Question whether the district is proclaimed?

Wexford is proclaimed under certain sections of the Criminal Law and Procedure (Ireland) Act.

asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether the attention of Her Majesty's Government has been called to the telegrams from Constantinople which appeared in the newspapers on Monday the 30th of April, summarizing the remonstrances addressed by the Armenian Patriarch to the Ottoman Porte, on the subject of various acts of oppression and persecution committed on the Armenian subjects of the Sultan and violations of the privileges hitherto enjoyed by the Armenian churches; and, whether, if these remonstrances are correctly reported, and there is reason to believe that the acts complained of have been committed, Her Majesty's Government will, considering the serious consequences which may follow from prolonged irritation on the part of the Armenian Church and people, and having regard to the obligations undertaken in Article LXI. of the Treaty of Berlin, use their influence with the Porte to obtain a redress of these grievances, and a discontinuance of the persecutions practised on the Armenian Christians?

Her Majesty's Government are aware of the reports of grievances complained of by Armenian subjects of the Imperial Ottoman Government, but they are not at present in a position to judge of the accuracy of the statements referred to. They have no rights in respect to this matter under the Treaty of Berlin, except in conjunction with the other Signatory Powers. But their influence will be constantly used to procure the redress of any ascertained grievances, under whatever conditions of time and opportunity shall seem to our agents on the spot to promise the best prospect of success.

asked, whether the Government would take steps to ascertain if the facts were as stated?

said, Her Majesty's Representatives would, no doubt, report on the subject.

said, he would repeat the Question.

asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether arrangements can be made for the establishment of an Inland Revenue Stamping Office in Glasgow, so that the stamping of marine and life policies of insurance, mercantile bills of exchange, and share transfers may be effected there, instead of its being necessary, as at present, to send the papers to Edinburgh; or, whether, as an alternative, adhesive stamps may in future be used on the condition that the user is bound to deface them as in the case of receipt stamps?

On the 1st of this month the Inland Revenue commenced the stamping of certain documents, including policies of insurance and share transfers, at Liverpool. By the experiment thus made the Board will be enabled, within a reasonable period, to judge whether these facilities should be extended to any other large towns, and Glasgow will be the first to be considered.

asked the hon. Baronet the Member for the Blackpool Division of Lancashire, as Chairman of the Royal Commission on the Civil Service Establishments, Whether, before the issue of its Second Report, the Commission will take evidence as to the alleged grievances of the attendants and messengers at the South Kensington Museum?

We had hoped to be able to take up the Education and Science and Art Departments during this stage of our proceedings; and, though the remedy of grievances is not the main object of our inquiry, we should then have dealt, in accordance with our usual procedure, with the case of the classes referred to in my hon. Friend's Question. But I am afraid I must state that we have found it impossible to do so before the presentation of our now pending Report.

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, Whether it is a fact that a man, named Wason, was, on the prosecution of Mr. Attorney General, last year convicted of extortion, in connection with the execution of decrees for rent, and sentenced to four months' imprisonment; whether the present Sheriff of Donegal has appointed this same man as his bailiff, to execute writs and decrees in the district of Dunfanaghy; and, whether the Government intend to allow it?

, in reply, said, he found the facts were as stated in the Question. It was in the discretion of the Chairman of Quarter Sessions, under his statutable power, to make an order preventing a bailiff from acting in his district.

asked, whether the Government proposed to get rid of this bailiff?

said, the matter lay in the hands of the Chairman of Quarter Sessions.

asked the Lord Advocate, Whether the attention of the Government has been called to the great success attending the hatching and rearing of sea fish by the Governments of the United States and Norway; whether the Government are prepared to recommend the establishment of hatching and rearing stations in Scotland, for the purpose of increasing by artificial means the supply of sea fish and lobsters; and, if so, whether he will consider the suitability of the Moray Firth or the Cromarty Firth for such an experiment station; would the cost of such a station, with all the necessary appliances, exceed £1,000, or some such sum; and will the Government recommend a Supplementary Vote for this purpose?

in reply, said, he was sorry again to ask the hon. Member to postpone the Question, as the information which he had applied for had not vet reached him.

said, the hon. Member could not regret more than he did the delay in obtaining the information necessary to supply a satisfactory answer. He could not account for it at present. If his hon. Friend would put his Question down for Monday, he would undertake, by the most active means, to secure the information.

asked the First Commissioner of Works, Whether his attention has been called to the discovery of a large fragment of the ancient Roman Wall of London on a piece of ground acquired by the Government for the purposes of the enlargement of the General Post Office in St. Martin's-le-Grand; and, whether, considering that this is believed to be the largest piece of the Roman Wall of London still in existence, and is in a good state of preservation, he will consider the propriety of preventing it from being either destroyed or so covered up by new buildings as to be no longer visible?

In clearing the site for the new Post Office at St. Martin's-le-Grand we came upon what I believe is the best specimen yet discovered of the old Roman Wall of London. On one side its face is covered by a disused graveyard, now made into a recreation ground; the other face was laid bare by our workmen in preparing the foundations for the new Post Office buildings. Of course, we treated our discovery very carefully, and many parts of the wall (exposed altogether for a length of about 100 feet) are in an excellent state of preservation; in other parts we found that the old wall had in former times been much interfered with, large gaps having been cut through it and brickwork inserted. I have been inquiring how far it will be possible to preserve what remains of the Roman work; and I am glad to say that by a Report which I have to-day received it appears that this can be done by a very slight alteration of the plans of our new buildings, so that the whole of this part of the old Roman Wall shall remain undisturbed and complete as it is to-day, and exposed in sections visible for inspection and study by antiquaries. I shall submit this Report to my right hon. Friend the Postmaster General, and I have no doubt it will meet with his approval.

asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether, having regard to the fact that interest upon Consols New and Reduced Annuities has now been reduced to £2 15s. per cent, it will he necessary to introduce legislative measures dealing with the valuation of annuities under the Schedule to the Act entitled 16 & 17 Vict. c. 51?

As the hon. Gentleman is doubtless aware, the valuation in the tables annexed to that Act is based upon a rate of interest of 4 per cent, so that there has always been a difference in favour of the annuitant between this rate and that at which the State can borrow. This difference has, of course, been increased by the recent reduction of interest on the National Debt, and it is a fair question whether the time has not come for diminishing it. This subject is engaging my attention, with many others arising out of the conversion; but the calculations involved in a revaluation of the annuities are so complicated that I cannot hope to be able to deal with it in the course of the present Session.

asked the President of the Board of Trade, Whether a Return can be given showing the number of liquidations of Joint Stock Companies instituted or carried on in the Court of Chancery since the Act of 1862 came into operation; the amount of assets in each case, distinguishing between the property of the Company and calls made on contributories; the amount paid in dividends to creditors in each case; the amount paid in costs in each case, distinguishing the remuneration paid to the liquidator from other costs; and the number of such liquidations still unclosed?

It would, I understand, be impossible, without very great expense and labour, to give the whole of the information asked for by the right hon. Gentleman. The Board of Trade are, however, in communication with the Lord Chancellor, with a view to ascertaining whether it would be possible to supply a portion of the information required.

asked the Secretary of State for War, Whether it is his intention to make further inquiries, by means of a Departmental Committee or otherwise, as to any disadvantages under which Army Quartermasters and Ridingmasters consider that they labour?

In 1886 the alleged grievances of the Ridingmasters and Quartermasters were very carefully considered by a small Departmental Committee. This Committee came to the conclusion that several of the points put forward as grievances were not grievances at all, and they were unable, in consequence, to recommend any change concerning them. But they also made certain recommendations in favour of these officers. All these latter recommendations were adopted, and have had the effect of distinctly improving the conditions of service of Quartermasters and Ridingmasters. Since the War- rant on this subject was published, in 1886, these officers have carried on what appears little less than an organized agitation, by means of letters to papers, printed circulars to Members of Parliament, and the like, for these concessions, which the Committee reported they had no ground for claiming. This agitation appears to me to speak very badly for the discipline of those by whom it is promoted. I have only to say that I think it would be most detrimental to the Army if applications which had been refused on their merits were granted to outside pressure. I can hold out no hope of this taking place in the present instance.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, Whether his attention has been drawn to the case, as reported in The Daily News of the 30th of April, of Mrs. Maria Davies, who, having been sent to prison 16 months ago by Baron Huddleston and Mr. Justice Manisty because she disobeyed an injunction of the Court, was on Saturday again brought up before the Court, and committed again to gaol for an indefinite period for contempt of Court; whether it is the fact that such alleged contempt consisted in the prisoner declaring that she must bring her action to try her right to what she considered her home; whether the Judges ordered that the process of contempt must go on, for how long they could not state; and, whether, as one of the Judges said the prisoner's conduct amounted to a misdemeanour, and the other stated that her punishment had been certainly adequate to a serious misdemeanour, the Government will advise the Crown to exercise the prerogative of mercy in this case, as the prisoner appears to have been already sufficiently punished by her prolonged imprisonment?

, in reply, said, he had seen a newspaper report of the case, from which it appeared that the alleged contempt consisted in refusing to abstain from attempts to take forcible possession of property which had been legally decided to belong to another. Mrs. Davies had only to purge her con- tempt of Court, and abstain from unlawful molestation of innocent parties, and she became free. The Secretary of State would not advise the exercise of the prerogative of mercy in this case, even presuming that it fell within that prerogative.

What I want to know is, whether the prisoner is to be kept in prison for the rest of her days?

asked the hon. Baronet the Member for the Blackpool Division of Lancashire, Whether he is aware of representations having been made to the Secretary of the Civil Establishments Commission by a writer in the Customs Department, who recently appeared as a witness before the Commission, to the effect that he has since been called to account by the Customs Authorities in respect of his evidence; whether he actually received notice of discharge from the Service; and, whether the Commission are in a position to protect the witnesses who may come before them?

Yes, Sir; representations were made to our Secretary by a writer in the Customs Department that he had got into difficulties with the Board, and that those difficulties had some connection with evidence which he had given before the Commission. I understand that he did receive notice of discharge. I am glad, however, to be able to state that the difficulties in question have been removed, and that the notice of discharge did not take effect. As to whether the Commission are in a position to protect the witnesses who may come before them, I am happy to be able to assure the hon. Member and the Service generally that no occasion for such protection has arisen during the course of our inquiry, nor did this particular case reach the stage of intervention by the Commission. Unquestionably, however, it is our recognized duty to protect all witnesses in the free expression of their opinions; and we shall do all that is in cur power in this direction if, unhappily, the necessity should arise.

asked the First Lord of the Treasury, whether to members of the Civil Service who might offer evidence, and thus expose themselves to severe punishment for a trivial official delinquency, he would guarantee an appeal to the Treasury for protection?

I can assure the hon. Member that Civil servants will always find in the Treasury an authority capable of sustaining any rights they may possess.

And willing?

asked the President of the Board of Trade, Whether the Government intend to introduce, without delay, a measure enabling "Lloyd's," or any other Incorporated Body, to connect lighthouses and lightships with the mainland by submarine telegraphs, at the cost of any such Body and under Regulations to be sanctioned by the Board of Trade, and for such purposes to incorporate or extend the powers, for compulsory user or purchase of lands, of the Lands Clauses Acts; and, what steps are being taken to connect the improved lights on Tory Island (on the extreme north-west corner of Ireland) with signal stations on the mainland of Ireland?

A Bill to confer powers on Lloyd's to take lands for signal stations and to maintain telegraphic communication with such stations was introduced in the other House on Tuesday last. I received information last week from Lloyd's that the question of connecting their signal station on Tory Island with the mainland by telegraphic cable is now being seriously considered by them.

asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether steam rollers, watering carts, and other vehicles owned by a Corporation, and used solely for public purposes, will be exempted from the proposed tax upon carts and wheels?

It is assumed that the steam rollers, watering carts, and other vehicles referred to in the Question will be used solely for local public purposes. There is no specific exemption of such vehicles in the Bill; but they will not be regarded as subject to charge.

asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether the Convention of 1881 between Great Britain, Germany, and the United States of America with regard to Samoa has ceased to exist; if so, what has taken its place; and, whether the Government intend to recognize Tamasese as King of Samoa?

There was no such Convention contracted in 1881. A Convention was concluded in 1879 between Great Britain and Samoa, to which Germany and the United States subsequently became parties, providing for good order in the district of Apia, and for the maintenance of neutrality in case of internal disturbances; and a further Convention between the same Powers in 1883 continuing the last. The German Government have announced their withdrawal from that Convention; and Her Majesty's Government have assented to the district of Apia being replaced under the control of the Samoan Government, subject to the rights of the Treaty Powers.

asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether any communications, direct or indirect, written or oral, have been interchanged between Her Majesty's Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs and the Duke of Norfolk, either immediately before or during or after the Jubilee Mission of the latter to His Holiness the Pope in regard to the relations of the Holy See with Ireland, or with any other portion of the United Kingdom; and, whether any communications, direct or indirect, written or oral, have been interchanged between Her Majesty's Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs and any Catholic Bishop or Bishops upon the same subject within the last 12 months?

No official communications on any political subject connected with Ireland have passed between the Foreign Office and the Duke of Norfolk or any Catholic Bishop.

The right hon. Gentleman will excuse me in saying that that is not exactly what I asked. I asked whether there had been any communications, direct or indirect, written or oral, interchanged between Her Majesty's Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs and the Duke of Norfolk? I perhaps may be allowed to say I called it Secretary of State; but I will add, "in his capacity as Prime Minister and Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs." That is quite a different Question.

If the hon. Member asks me whether any private communications have passed—[Mr. LABOUCHERE: I did not say private.]—between Lord Salisbury and the Duke of Norfolk, all I can say is that I believe they are on terms of private friendship, and it is probable that they have often talked together about Ireland; but I have no information upon that subject.

Do I understand that Lord Salisbury and the Duke of Norfolk have had many private communications upon the subject which I have stated in the Question?

No, Sir; I have no information on the point at all.

Does the right hon. Gentleman know whether any unofficial communications of a political character took place between Her Majesty's Government and the Pope?

I must ask for Notice of Questions of this kind.

asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether it is the case that, owing to the separation of the Issue Department from the Banking Department of the Bank of England, under the Bank Act of 1844, there is held in trust for the repayment of the bank notes issued, Government Debt, other securities, gold coin and bullion to the value of the bank notes so issued, thus securing the holders of these notes against possible loss; whilst, in Scotland, owing to the want of separation of the Issue Department from the Banking Department, the holder of bank notes, in the event of bankruptcy of a Scotch bank, has no better security for repayment than any ordinary creditor of the bank?

, in reply, said, he believed the matter was correctly stated in the Question; and he believed that what the hon. Member stated with regard to the Scotch banks was common knowledge as to the law on the subject.

asked the Under Secretary of State for India, Whether a suggestion of an offer from the Nizam of Hyderabad of 60 lakhs of rupees for the frontier defences of India was brought under the notice of Her Majesty's Government, or of any Member of Her Majesty's Government, by Abdul Huk, when in London in the summer of 1887 as Jubilee Commissioner of H.H. the Nizam; whether any reply, verbal or in writing, was made to this suggestion; whether he is aware that Abdul Huk, on his return from London to Hyderabad, forwarded a draft letter containing the offer to Colonel Marshall, the British Private Secretary of the Nizam, and that he (Abdul Huk) stated that this draft had been written by a British Cabinet Minister; whether Colonel Marshall urged Sir Arman Jah, the Prime Minister of the Nizam, to adopt the proposal, and to submit it as his own to the Nizam; whether Sir Arman Jah, after some protest, presented the draft letter to His Highness, and at the same time intimated to him that the present was not the time for making the offer; whether eventually the draft letter was signed by His Highness, and Colonel Marshall took it to the Viceroy of India, together with a cheque signed by Abdul Huk, but unsigned by Sir Arman Jah, for 20 lakhs of rupees (the first yearly instalment) on the London and Provincial Bank; whether Sir Arman Jah, upon hearing of this cheque, protested that Abdul Huk had no right to give a cheque on property belonging to His Highness's Government, and deposited with the National Provincial Bank; whether the cheque was declined by the Viceroy, and the offer reserved for consideration; whether, if the Under Secretary of State for India is not sufficiently in possession of what took place in respect to this offer of His Highness to reply to these Questions, he will make inquiry in regard to them; whether any Despatches have been received from India in regard to the contemplated gift of the Nizam; and, if so, if he will lay them upon the Table of the House; whether he can state what are the functions of Colonel Marshall at Hyderabad, and if it is open to the Nizam to relieve him of those functions should His Highness deem it expedient to do so; and, whether he can inform the House if any decision has been arrived at in respect to the Nizam's offer?

Paragraphs 1 and 2.—The suggestion in these Questions is absolutely devoid of foundation; paragraphs 3 to 9 relate to matters as to which the Secretary of State has no information or concern, and respecting which he thinks it unnecessary to ask for information. Paragraph 10.—No. Paragraph 11.—I described Colonel Marshall's position in an answer on April 26. As the Nizam asked for the loan of his services, his dismissal without reference to the Viceroy would be an act of discourtesy, of which it is inconceivable the Nizam would be guilty. Paragraph 12.—No.

asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Whether the £E450,000 of the New Egyptian Loan, which £E450,000 it is stated is to provide for the continuation of the exchange of pensions against public lands or Domain lands, is to be issued at once; and, if so, what will become of this money, upon which the Egyptian Government will have to pay above 4½ per cent until such changes are made, or in the event of their never being made; whether the words—

"The proceeds of the direct and indirect taxes of the City of Cairo, collected by the Daira Baladick, which are hypothecated to the payment of interest on the loan,"

include local taxes for municipal purposes, as well as Imperial taxes; and, whether, in view of the fact that the loan is for £2,330,000, and is estimated to produce at the price of issue £2,186,050, whilst the proceeds of the loan to be handed over to the Egyptian Government are only £E2,000,000, he will state what is contemplated to be done with the difference, and to whom it is to go?

Her Majesty's Government have not sufficient information to reply to the first two Questions of the hon. Member. With regard to the third Question, we have not been informed of the exact terms on which the loan has been finally contracted for; but it appears by the Decree that two coupons of interest were to be deducted, which would account for £90,000, and bring up the net amount to about £2,150,000.

asked the Secretary of State for War, Whether the Committee appointed to consider with him the plans proposed for the fortifications and armament of the Military and Home Mercantile Ports inquired into the strength and composition of the war fleets and distribution of the military ports of the Continental Powers; and into the sufficiency of our war Fleet to carry out now, in the event of war, the traditional naval policy of England by the prompt assertion on the outbreak of war, and the maintenance during war, of naval superiority off an enemy's port on the most effectual and certain means of securing the safety of our own; and, whether he will communicate to the House the terms of Reference or Instructions to this Committee, the titles of all documents, plans, and charts submitted for examination; the names and occupations of all persons who gave evidence; and, also a statement showing the number and duration of the sittings of the Committee?

The Committee, which rendered me such invaluable assistance in considering the defences of our ports, did inquire into the nature of the armament carried on board the ships of Foreign Powers, the object being to ascertain what defences were required against any probable attacks. They obtained evidence from many distinguished naval officers as to the dangers to be apprehended; but they had nothing whatever to do with any questions affecting our Fleet. If my hon. Friend will read the Report, he will find the terms of Reference to the Committee and the names of the most important witnesses examined. The Committee sat for more than 20 days.

asked, whether the Committee had any information before them as to the number of the warships of Foreign Powers?

replied that the number of foreign war-ships was not an essential part of the information placed before the Committee; but that they had before them some information upon the subject.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, Whether instructions have been given to the police not to interfere further with the stall-keepers in Crisp Street, Poplar, and other places in the East of London?

It is not the practice of the police to interfere with stall-keepers unless there is grave obstruction and inconvenience to the public, and then proceedings are only by way of summons. The Commissioner of Police has informed the Vestry to this effect. So far as my memory serves me, the police interfered in this case because there was serious obstruction.

Are they going to interfere further in the matter?

They are going to abide by the old practice they have always followed.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, Whether the police magistrate for Marylebone frequently has 60 summonses to his Court in an afternoon; whether, on the average of cases heard during the time he sits, he can give more than three minutes to each case; whether these hours are from 3 to 5 p.m.; whether some persons have to come three miles from their homes to attend the Court; if he is aware that there is a widespread demand in St. Pancras for a separate Court; and, if, taking all the circumstances into consideration, he is prepared to give this borough, having a population of about 250,000, a Police Court for the transaction of its business?

I am informed by the magistrate of the Marylebone Court that it is a very unusual occurrence to have 60 summonses in a day. The hours for hearing summonses are from 2 to 5. The most distant part of the district in St. Pancras is about three miles from the Court. I have no knowledge of any widespread demand for a separate Court in St. Pancras. The Court is a hard-worked one; but the magistrates tell me that they have had no difficulty in disposing of the business. I am not prepared to advise the establishment of a separate Police Court for St. Pancras.

asked the President of the Local Government Board, Whether he will present to the House, before going into Commmittee on the Local Government Bill, a Return showing the Electoral Divisions, County Districts, Licensing Divisions, and particulars respecting all the other Divisions into which Lancashire will be distributed if the Bill passes in its present shape, and showing the areas, divisions, localities, and populations; and, whether he will consent to a similar Return in the case of Devonshire?

, in reply, said, that, looking to the fact that the County Councils had to settle the matter, and not the Local Government Board, it would be obvious that it was impossible for him to give a sketch model of any value whatever. The Electoral Divisions, except in the case of boroughs, would be determined by the Court of Quarter Sessions, and the Licensing Divisions would depend upon the Electoral Divisions.

asked the President of the Board of Trade, When the General Report upon the Accidents on the Railways of the United Kingdom during 1887, and the Returns of Accident and Casualties by the Railway Companies in the United Kingdom during 1887, with Reports of Inspecting Officers of the Railway Department, will be printed and issued to Members of this House?

The Return of Accidents and Casualties by the Railway Companies for 1887 has been presented, and is in the hands of the printers. The General Report is in an advanced state of preparation. But the Returns of the numbers of passengers conveyed, which are necessary to the comparison between the numbers of persons conveyed and the numbers of those injured, have not yet been fully received.

asked the Secretary to the Treasury, Whether he can state approximately the amount of money spent by the Woods, Forests, and Land Revenue Commissioners in the discovery and working of gold in Wales, and of the amount of royalties derived from gold mining by private enterprize?

No money has been spent by the Commissioners of Woods in the discovery and working of gold in Wales.

asked the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether he is now prepared to state what steps the Government propose to take with reference to recent discoveries of gold in Wales, so as to encourage the development of a new industry, and at the same time create what may become a considerable source of revenue to the nation?

The steps which it is proposed to take, and which, in fact, have been taken, with a view to the development of gold mining in Wales, are to grant licences to such persons as may be desirous to obtain them. The question as to the proportion or amount of the royalty is under the consideration of the Government; and they will do everything in their power to develop the resources of the mines.

asked, whether the action of the Executive in the matter of royalties was not determined by statute? Had the Executive power to vary the statute?

remarked, that that was a question of law to which he could give no answer on the moment.

asked, whether it would not be well to appoint a Committee to inquire into the working of the statute as it affected gold mining?

said, the Government would take all the steps in the matter that might appear to them to be necessary.

asked the Under Secretary of State for India, Whether the attention of Her Majesty's Government has been drawn to the advisability of enrolling, as a reserve for Indian employment, those British soldiers who have completed their term of service in India and have subsequently determined to settle in Australia?

Nothing on this subject has reached the Secretary of State for India.

asked Mr. Attorney General, Whether, in view of the very small number of days in the year that the Law Lords sit, he could provide for their being employed (when they are not sitting to hear Appeals in the House of Lords) in relieving the great accumulation of business in the Chancery Division of the High Court of Justice; and, whether he is aware that other Peers sit as frequently as the Law Lords for hearing Appeals in the House of Lords, without receiving any salary at all?

In reply to my hon. and learned Friend, I cannot agree that the Lords of Appeal sit a very small number of days in the year. On the contrary, having regard to the appeals in the House of Lords and Privy Council—in both of which tribunals the Lords of Appeal sit—it would, in my opinion, be impossible, as well as inexpedient, that they should undertake any part of the business of the High Court of Justice. It is not the fact that any Peers sit as frequently as the Lords of Appeal to hear appeals without receiving any salary at all.

asked Mr. Attorney General, Whether he will this Session introduce a Bill for taking, in Civil Cases, a verdict by the majority of the jurors, to put an end to the great dissatisfaction that is felt by the public at long and protracted legal proceedings so frequently terminating without any verdict being arrived at by the jury?

I cannot undertake to introduce a Bill to deal with the subject during the present Session.

asked Mr. Attorney General, Whether his attention has been called to a Resolution of St. James's Vestry, determining to expend the rates of that parish in publishing remarks on the administration and expenditure of the London School Board; and, whether any statutory authority exists in the Metropolis Local Management Act for such expenditure of rates by a Vestry?

In answer to the hon. Member's Question, I beg to say that my attention has been called to the Resolution in question; and that, so far as I am at present aware, there does not exist in the Metropolis Local Management Act statutory authority for such an expenditure of the rates.

asked the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether the Government will consent to the distribution among Members of the Return of Proceedings under "The Land Purchase (Ireland) Act, 1885," ordered on the Motion, in "another place," of Lord Fitzgerald?

If the hon. Member will move for the Return it will be granted.

asked the First Lord of the Treasury, If the Government have come to any determination which he can communicate to the House with respect to the exemption from the payment of Dock and Harbour Dues, now claimed by the Government of India, on shipments of material intended for the construction, maintenance, or use of railways in India?

The Secretary of State in Council for India has come to the determination that, in future, exemption from dock and harbour dues be not claimed on the following classes of goods shipped from Great Britain, or for ships carrying them, on account of the Government of India:—1, coal; 2, all rolling stock for railways; 3, permanent way for railways; 4, all goods manufactured in this country for use on railways, or being of such a nature that they cannot be used except for railway purposes.

asked, whether the word "dues" was intended to include rates, and whether "coal" included coke?

I have read from the text of the Resolution passed in the Indian Council; and I have no doubt whatever that "coal" would include "coke," and that "dues" would include "rates."

asked the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether he could give the House any information as to when the Excise Duties (Local Purposes) Bill would be taken?

asked, whether the right hon. Gentleman would consider the possibility of fixing that Bill as the first Order of the Day on which it was put down?

I have already stated that I will never undertake that a particular Bill shall be placed as the first Order on the Paper. I am not able to say when the Bill will be taken, possibly on Monday; but Notice of the arrangement will be given. I wish to take this opportunity of giving Notice that no Bill which stands on the Paper for Monday will be taken on that day, as it is essential that the Customs and Inland Revenue Bill and the Local Government (Electors) Bill shall be passed before other measures are proceeded with.

What will the Business on Monday be? Perhaps, too, the right hon. Gentleman will now be able to give us some information with respect to the Whitsuntide Recess.

The Whitsuntide Recess, I think, must depend in some measure on the progress of Business. I should prefer not to make any statement with regard to the holidays until we can look a little more into the future with regard to Business. The course I propose to take is this—I propose to ask the House to consider the Customs and Inland Revenue Bill this evening, to proceed then to the Committee on the Local Government (Electors) Bill, and if that be not finished to-night to take it up on Monday. There is other Business on the Paper for Monday—the Criminal Evidence Bill, which will follow the Local Government (Electors) Bill. I think that is as much information as I can give to the House at present.

When will the Customs and Inland Revenue Bill be read a third time?

I propose that it should be read a third time to-morrow.

There is no opportunity of generally discussing the Bill on the Report stage. If the third reading is taken to-morrow it ought to be fixed at some hour when a discussion can take place.

I was not aware that there was any desire for a general discussion on the third reading, as a general discussion has already taken place on the second reading, and it is not, I think, very usual that a discussion should be taken on the third reading. I shall endeavour, however, to arrange that the Bill shall be taken at an hour which will allow of a discussion. The right hon. Gentleman must be aware of the importance of getting the third reading of the Bill as soon as possible, having due regard to the desire of hon. Members to express their views upon it. He is also aware that the Bill can be taken at any time; and, therefore, if unfortunately the discussion on going into Committee of Supply should be prolonged, it may be necessary to take the Bill at a later hour.

said, he could not quite let those words pass without challenge. It appeared that one discussion on the Taxing Act of the year was to content the House, and that anything beyond that was to be considered entirely out of the common course. While recognizing the desire of the right hon. Gentleman that the Bill should be got through as soon as possible, he thought that it would be a perfectly fair request to make if they asked the right hon. Gentleman to give some facilities for a discussion.

said, that he would endeavour to use every influence he possessed in order to meet the views of the right hon. Gentleman.

wished to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland a Question of which he had given him private Notice—namely, Whether it was a fact, as stated in that day's papers, that Mr. Roche, of Woodford, now imprisoned under the Coercion Act, was seriously ill, suffering from acute lung disease; and, whether he could state that proper means were being, or would be, taken to prevent this gentleman being tortured to death?

said, he had not seen the report referred to.

asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether the communications with the French Government with regard to the proposed duty on bottled wines were now closed; and, if so, whether he would communicate the result to the House?

said, that Notice would be required of the Question, and that it ought to be addressed to the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs.

I wish to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, Whether he is now able to lay before the House the record of the convictions of Mr. Blanc, M.P., which he said he would inquire into?

I believe I can give a fairly full account to the House. It appears that the Resident Magistrates did not condemn Mr. Blanc to hard labour. It appears there was a distinction drawn in the record of the sentences by which it was put down with regard to Father M'Fadden that he was not condemned to hard labour; and it is that circumstance, and that difference in the statement of the two sentences—which appeared to be identical in their character—which, I presume, led to the fact that it was reported in the first instance as being a sentence of hard labour; and throughout the recent trial of the appeal it was treated by counsel for the prosecution, and by the prisoner and those who advised him, as being a sentence of hard labour. The mistake is rather a remarkable one.

Does the right hon. Gentleman now admit that there was an increase of sentence?

Of course, I admit there was an increase of sentence. I have now given the House the information which reached me for the first time to-day, and, of course, I now admit that, with regard to Mr. Blane, there was an increase of sentence, but not with regard to Father M'Fadden.

As the increase of sentence on Mr. Blane was accompanied, in the mind of the magistrates, by a decrease of its severity, and as it appears not to have taken place, will the right hon. Gentleman take steps to rectify it?

As I understand the matter, the County Court Judge gave the sentence, on the re-hearing of the case, which he thought befitting the offence that had been committed; and if that was the view it was perfectly irrelevant whether an error was committed as to the sentence or not.

Will the right hon. Gentleman now withdraw the word "modification" of the sentence which he used the other night?

asked the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether the second reading of this Bill would be taken before Whitsuntide?

Yes, Sir.

, in moving for leave to bring in a Bill to make better provision respecting National Defence, said, that, as the subject was of a somewhat tech- nical character, he had circulated a Memorandum which would clearly explain it.

, in moving, as an Amendment, in page 2, after Clause 3, to insert the following clause:—

"That, on and after the passing of this Act, or at such other date subsequent thereto as Her Majesty may fix, by an order made with the advice of Her Privy Council, the Excise Duty now payable on plate of silver and gold made or wrought in Great Britain, or in Ireland, shall cease and determine; and that the Duty of Customs now payable under the Customs Tariff Acts on imports of plate of silver gilt or ungilt, and on plate of gold, shall also, on the same date, cease to be charged, and all drawbacks now payable on plate of silver or gold on being exported from Great Britain or Ireland shall cease to be paid,"

said, in doing so he was happy to inform the House that it would not be necessary to trespass upon the attention of hon. Members at any considerable length. It seemed to him that he had very few persons to convince in regard to the important question he was about to bring forward. Indeed, the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer was almost the only individual it was necessary to address specially, other hon. Members having already been converted to his proposition, and the right hon. Gentleman himself having, in fact, been his principal guide and tutor in the matter. The right hon. Gentleman would not dispute the fact that a few years ago he had deliberately condemned the imposition of a duty upon plate, and upon that occasion it was understood that upon the very first opportunity the Government would consider the duty upon gold and silver plate in connection with the subject of hall-marking. It would be out of Order for him to propose formally the amendment of that system, by which the duty on gold and silver plate was now levied. He should, therefore, be obliged to confine his remarks to the necessity of abolishing the duty at the earliest possible moment in the general interest of the country. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, in his Budget, had imposed several new duties, some of which wore more or less oppressive to the trade of the country. He (Mr. Slagg) confessed that it would be very acceptable to him and to others connected with the industries of the country to see some relief given to trade, and he knew no better way in which it could be done than by abolishing those duties on gold and silver plate, which were now antiquated and absolutely barbarous. Personally, he was amazed that the present system of taxing an important and growing industry of the country had remained so long. The amount raised from the duty was really so trivial that he should have thought on the very first opportunity the Chancellor of the Exchequer would have taken means to get rid of the system. The system itself was some centuries old, and it appeared to be supported only by a small clique of persons who were connected with the trade in London and elsewhere, and who were not the most enterprizing persons of their class. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had not hesitated to attack other classes. Why did he hesitate to attack this monstrous and inadequate monopoly? He believed that the reason for this backwardness on the part of the Chancellor of the Exchequer was to be found in the restraint placed upon him by the action of the Goldsmiths' Company in London. Possibly, in anticipation of action to be taken in that House, that worthy, august, and ancient Corporation had made haste to incorporate among the Company a number of right hon. Gentlemen who had seats on the Front Bench, in order, he presumed, to dine down any proclivities they might have in the direction of interfering with these duties. He thought nothing more was needed to point out the undesirableness of continuing these duties than to show what their effect was. The trade in silver plate was decreasing seriously, both in quantity and in quality. In 1857, duty was paid on 1,930,000 ounces; in 1868, upon 780,000 ounces; in 1877, on 786,000 ounces; and in 1886 on only 690,000 ounces; or 1,000,000 ounces less than in 1825, notwithstanding the increase of population which had taken place in the interim. Those figures spoke for themselves, and proved the important fact that not only was the industry oppressed by the present system of taxation derived from hall-marking, but that it was in such a languishing state that before long it would inevitably expire. But, further, there was another fatal defect in these duties; they crushed out any enlargement of the trade in the direction of artistic development, as any hon. Member could see for himself, if he would look into a silversmith's shop. In the meantime, what were foreign countries doing? While our trade was languishing, that of America was improving by leaps and bounds. There was no such system there of hall-marks and duty, and the result was a large development of the trade. While we were harking back to the days of Queen Anne and George III. for our artistic designs, other countries were striking out new designs altogether, and were producing articles which beat ours and secured the customers who we formerly supplied. At present we were resting quietly under this competition which we had ourselves raised, and we were allowing a country like America not only to take away the whole of our trade, but to absorb the whole of our workmen and take them over to their factories. There were two large firms in America which alone made more artistic silver plate than the whole of our firms put together. On these grounds he made a strong appeal to the Chancellor of the Exchequer to pay some consideration to the question. The right hon. Gentleman—and with justice perhaps—pleaded that it was now too late in the day to make such alterations in his Bill as would meet these grievances; but the right hon. Gentleman must be convinced of the importance of the subject, and he hoped he would at least give them an assurance that he would take an early opportunity of dealing with it, and, if possible, of setting it right. He thought that if the House could only be made aware of the loss of employment and the destitution of artistic application caused by the operation of these taxes, there would be a general demand for their removal. There was only one further part of the question upon which he would trouble the House with a very few words—namely, the effect of these duties in India. In India the silversmith's art was a very ancient one, and many of the inhabitants of that country were specially skilled in producing silver articles of great beauty and design. While, however, we professed in this country to be making every possible effort to foster the Native art of India, we were really doing all we could to stifle it and crush it out, by meeting it with a virtual prohibition at our Custom Houses, owing to the fact that it could not pass our hall-marking process, seeing that the silver rupee was a little below the standard of our own silver. Thus we absolutely denied to our own Dependencies the advantages which might be derived from a trade of this sort with the Mother Country. He thought that hon. Members who took an interest in the welfare of India would support his proposal. It was utterly impossible that they could extend trade as it ought to be extended until the imports to which he was objecting were done away with. He had no hesitation in expressing his full condemnation of the present system of hall-marking. But that was not the point which he desired to raise on that occasion. What ho wished was to give to those who were in favour of abolishing the duty the opportunity of voting with him if they possibly could. There could be no doubt that hall-marking was a very great burden and tax upon the art of the country. He had made appeals to various Chancellors of the Exchequer, and the answer which he had invariably received was—" Oh. yes; we agree that it is a barbarous and antiquated state of things; but we are held and bound fast by the difficulty of dealing with the question of drawbacks." He was surprised, after the steps which had been taken by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in his Budget, that he should flinch from facing the question. He (Mr. Slagg), as a Free Trader, would have no hesitation whatever in removing the duty without considering the question of drawback at all. It had been done in other cases, and he did not see why they should stand shivering on the brink. To meet the difficulty, however, he would propose to compromise these drawbacks. He knew that the suggestion he was about to make could not be acted upon now; but he threw it out for the consideration of the Chancellor of the Exchequer—namely, to give, as had been given in former instances, one year's drawback on the whole stock of silver plate. The amount of gold plate was so small that he thought it might be left out of the question, being simply confined to wed- ding rings. Taking the average for the last three years, he estimated one year's duty at £50,000, and this sum he would apply to the extinction of all plate duties. He ventured to think that the sum of £50,000 would liberally cover all demands of the trade. In the last few years about £150,000 had been paid in the shape of drawbacks, and two-thirds of that sum had gone in consumption, so that there was only one-third remaining upon new and unused silver plate. That sum would, therefore, be sufficient to pay all demands; and, although it was not a large sum, he believed it would satisfy the great bulk of the trade. The proposition would only be opposed by dealers in old plate, if only upon the ground of giving artistic employment to the working men of our large towns, and of removing an injustice to our fellow-subjects in India. He hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would be able to give some favourable reply to his proposal. He believed that hon. Members opposite, in voting for the Clause, would give satisfaction to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, because the right hon. Gentleman himself desired to have some expression of opinion upon the justice of the case. He, therefore, hoped that hon. Members would support the clause he proposed, which would confer a lasting benefit upon the commerce of the country.

said, he was unable to go the full length of his hon. Friend the Member for Burnley (Mr. Slagg). Although the sum involved was not a large one, he was very unwilling to withdraw the duty entirely, because the fact should not be overlooked that it was a tax upon luxury. He also doubted whether the removal of the customs upon imported plate would benefit the British trader; whereas such removal would give rise to a very severe competition from India. The real grievance was that the present regulations in regard to hall-marking had the effect of practically excluding Indian goods from the English Market. He agreed with the hon. Member that Indian artificers were highly skilled, and it was one of the industries with regard to which it might be said that India was in advance of this country. It seemed to him that there were two questions to be considered: in the first place, the duty; and, in the next, the question of hall-marking. He thought the regulations as to hall-marking ought to be altered, so as to give India fair play.

said, the only Question before the House was the question of duty, and it would be out of Order to enter into the question of hall-marking.

said, he was simply about to suggest that a duty should be imposed, without any reference to the material upon which it was put. If a man chose to pay the duty he could do so.

said, the hon. Member was going into a subject which was outside the scope of the Bill.

said, he thought it would be possible to discuss the matter without any reference to hall-marking at all. In his opinion, it was desirable that the duty should be retained, and that there should be a stamp of some kind, such as that which was placed upon patent medicines, and other articles that were subject to Imperial duty, That was the only suggestion he intended to make.

said, that he should have been quite prepared to support the hon. Member for Burnley (Mr. Slagg), if his clause had ended with the first part relating to the remission of the Excise Duty on gold and silver plate wrought within the United Kingdom; but he could not support the second part of the Motion, which proposed to abolish the duty on imported foreign plate. He did not see how the languishing home trade would be benefited by the Market being flooded with more base foreign goods. It was an important admission for the hon. Member for Burnley, who was well known to be an active Free Trader, to make—namely, that the foreign trade was growing by leaps and bounds, whereas our trade was declining.

I only referred to the trade in silver plate.

said, that after the ruling of the Deputy Speaker he presumed it would be out of Order to follow the hon. Member into the question of hall-marking; but he could not resist the opportunity of saying that, in the opinion of a large number of artificers connected with the silver plate trade in Sheffield, that the present system of compulsory array was a great protection to them, and a guarantee of the good work of many honest but unknown small masters and artizans.

said, the remarks of the hon. Member were not in Order.

said, he would not pursue the matter further. He only hoped the hon. Member for Burnley would adopt the suggestion he had offered.

said, that although he sympathized with many of the observations of his hon. Friend the Member for Burnley (Mr. Slagg), he could not entirely agree with him as to the causes which had led to the diminished consumption and use of plate in this country. There was a time when good plate was made in this country, before George IV. melted down his plate and had it reconstructed into extremely bad plate by Rundell and Bridge. From that time the trade had fallen off. The modern habit of not putting plate on the dinner table had led to a large diminution of the trade. He was old enough to remember when it was the fashion to cover the table with plate. It was now the fashion to cover it with flowers instead. He did not think the imposition of the duty had had much effect in reducing the trade. There was no dispute as to matters of taste; but he could not agree with the opinion which had been expressed that American plate was very superior to ours. With regard to Indian plate, some people admired it more than he did; but there was no doubt that Indian artificers showed great capacity. If the Chancellor of the Exchequer could see his way to dealing with Indian plate in some manner, so as to give it fairer play in the Market here, he should have great sympathy with the right hon. Gentleman. The tax, however, was a tax upon luxury, and it was not, therefore, one of the first taxes that pressed for removal, such as might be the case if it were a tax upon necessaries.

said, he did not agree with the hon. Member for Burnley (Mr. Slagg) upon the question of the discontinuance of hall-marking; but he did agree with him as to the desirability of removing the duty upon silver plate. Among other disadvantages, it was open to the objection that it was an almost insurmountable obstacle to the adoption of a system of bimetallism. If the tax were abolished, he believed that numbers of persons would engage in the manufacture of silver articles who were now prevented by the duty from doing so; and this would operate to restore silver to its true relative value and its primary function. The use of silver as money was a secondary one; the primary use of silver was in the manufacture of articles of luxury. In sacred history we read that the offerings of the Princes of Israel for the building of the Temple were not given as so many shekels of money, but in silver plate, chargers or dishes of silver, and gold spoons, valued in no other way than according to weight. That proved satisfactorily that in ancient times the primary use of gold and silver was in the manufacture of articles of luxury. The secondary use was for coinage which subsequently became the chief function of both the precious metals. The question of bi-metallism was being very much agitated at the present moment, he believed that this duty had acted very much as an obstacle to that system, because it prevented the application of silver to its primary use in art and commerce, and so lessened its value relatively to other things.

said, that he knew the plate manufacturers of Birmingham and Sheffield intimately, and he was satisfied that as a body they did not want any alteration in the matter. He had not received a single application on the subject from the manufacturers of Birmingham. It was quite certain that the right hon. Member for Derby (Sir William Harcourt) had not paid a recent visit to Birmingham, or he would have seen that the articles he described did not altogether belong to the taste of the past. If the right hon. Gentleman would only pay a visit there, he would see that the trade was able to produce artistic articles of great beauty, and in the very best taste.

said, he thought that the question lay in a nutshell. He did not know whether what he had to say would satisfy the hon. Member for Burnley (Mr. Slagg); but he might state that if he could he should be glad to do so. Hon. Members were by no means unanimous as to whether the tax ought to continue or not, and it was curious to find how differently the same tax might be regarded even by two Members sitting on the same side, the one looking on it as a tax on industry, and the other wishing to maintain it as a tax on luxury. He confessed that his own sympathies were rather in the direction of the remission of that duty if it could be done. The hon. Member for Burnley had referred to the views of those whom he had called the monopolists; but the hon. Member would do him the justice to admit that there were some classes whom he had been obliged to touch by his Budget who were far more formidable than that particular industry, and no opposition coming from a small though opulent class would in the slightest degree affect the decision of the Government in such a matter. The hon. Member for Burnley had, he thought, to a certain extent exaggerated the effect of that tax, and he was inclined to agree with the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Derby (Sir William Harcourt) in the opinion that it was not the tax which had prevented an increase in the consumption of that class of manufacture. He could not dispose of the question of the drawback in the same light and airy manner as the hon. Member for Burnley. At the same time, he did not wish to state the question of the drawback too strongly; he desired to be very careful, as he might have to deal with it on other occasions, and therefore he would not enter into controversy with the hon. Member on the subject. It was not a question of opposition only—the opposition of the silversmiths in that House would be almost absolutely nil; but there was the question of equity as to dealing fairly with the class affected. They were in this position as regarded drawback—that while in respect to most articles—for example, tobacco and some others—the bulk of them was kept in bond, and a comparatively small stock of them was not in bond; whereas in the case of silver there was practically no manufactured silver in bond. The case of drawback in regard to silver would stand on a different footing, because the duty was paid in a different manner. The question of drawback had seriously embarrassed successive Chancellors of the Exchequer in dealing with that matter. The matter was one of a complicated character, requiring time and close examination for its satisfactory solution, with due regard to the interests of the public on the one hand, and to what was equitable towards the manufacturer on the other. If the hon. Member would withdraw his proposal, he would promise him that he would continue to give the subject his best attention. He could make no pledge as to the time when the matter should be dealt with, as it must depend on the condition of their finances and other circumstances; but his sympathies lay in the direction that he had indicated, and he was especially desirous of remedying the Indian grievance which had been pointed out.

said, as the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had referred to the course adopted by his Predecessors on this question, he wished to add that it was perfectly true that they had endeavoured to deal with this question. In 1880 his right hon. Friend the Member for Mid Lothian proposed the gradual reduction and ultimate abolition of the tax on silver and gold plate, and it had also been his duty to make a proposal under which the duty would have been abolished. But he was obliged to point out that when the Liberal Government proposed the abolition of the duty according to these two plans, they were met by very considerable political opposition, which was strong enough to make it impossible in 1880 and 1883 to carry through the proposed abolition. Now, he could promise the Chancellor of the Exchequer that Gentlemen on that side of the House would not throw in their lot with a small discontented body of silversmiths, and use their political power to defeat a measure for the abolition of the duty. He was very glad to hear what bad fallen from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and he made no doubt that the right hon. Gentleman would be able next year to apply a small portion of any surplus he might have to get rid of the tax altogether. On those terms, he would ask the hon. Member for Burnley (Mr. Slagg) not to press his proposal to a Division.

said, he thanked the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Goschen) very heartily for the manner in which he had met his Amendment, which he would now ask leave to withdraw.

said, that on a former occasion the principle of the Amendment in his name was put forward by the hon. Member for the Eifion Division of Carnarvonshire (Mr. Bryn Roberts), who gave reasons in support of it; and the Chancellor of the Exchequer suggested that it was a matter which excited so little interest that it required no answer. He (Mr. Warmington) believed that a study of the Division Lists of last week would show that the subject was one of wide interest. There were many small tradesmen and others who, although good men of business, were not able to put two sentences together, and who, when they appeared before men very well versed in these matters, were at a very great disadvantage in attempting to make good their case against the assessment. Small tradesmen desired that they might have an opportunity of being represented before the Commissioners by some skilled persons who would be able to put forward their claims for the revision of the assessments made upon them. In other classes of the community there were also many persons suffering from unjust assessment for Income Tax, because they found it better to submit to the injustice than to go to the trouble of appearing personally before the Commissioners. That was so, particularly with those who had the concerns and interests of people committed to their charge, and whose time was so valuable that it was impossible for them to sacrifice it by personally representing their case to the Commissioners. On these grounds he ventured to propose the Amendment in his name upon the Paper, which he thought was founded upon reason and good sense.

said, that many hon. Members, at the first blush, might think it desirable that solicitors should be allowed to appear before the Commissioners; but he would point out that the clause would give a totally different character to the proceedings which now took place. Dealing with these matters in a common-sense way was certainly equal to the advantage of having legal persons present. Of course, if a solicitor appeared on one side, it might be necessary to have a solicitor on the other side also; and the consequence might be that, instead of cases being rapidly disposed of by the exercise of common-sense on the part of impartial persons, there would be a long debate on each side. He felt certain that it was in the interests of persons who had to appeal that the process should be kept as simple and as commonplace as it could be. If people could not calculate upon the time at which their cases would be heard, it would be a great hardship. The Amendment would destroy the certainty which now existed. Experience had shown that upon the whole the present tribunal had given satisfaction, and it was not a tribunal before which it was desirable to introduce long legal arguments.

said, he ventured respectfully to differ from the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He was quite indifferent whether it was a solicitor or any qualified agent who might be entitled to appear; but he could not believe that because such persons came before the Commissioners to state the case of a person who considered himself unduly assessed there would be any waste of time. It was generally found that the more perfectly a man knew his case, the more rapidly he was able to put it forward; on the other hand, it was, generally speaking, the person who was not a practised man, and could not put his facts together, that wasted time in stating his case. He many years ago had a client, a manufacturer, a very able mechanic, a genius at inventions, but bad at accounts. This gentleman was assessed for Income Tax at thrice the propor amount. He appealed, but could not present his case clearly, and gained nothing by his appeal. Next year he consulted him (Mr. Gedge), and he was somewhat irregularly allowed to go with him before the Commissioners. In a few minutes he put the matter clearly before them, and a reduction of two-thirds of the Income Tax followed. He thought that the proposal of the hon. Member opposite would facilitate matters rather than delay the proceedings. The Income Tax was a very unpopular tax. ["No, no!"] An hon. Gentleman said "No;" but if he were acquainted, as he (Mr. Gedge) himself was, with persons whose incomes were about £600 or £700 a-year, he would find that among that class the Income Tax was very unpopular indeed, and that it was particularly so with the class who came under Schedule D. He believed that if, instead of the present system, they could let the appeal be heard by the County Court Judge in camerâ, and allow the appellant to be represented by a qualified man of business, who understood accounts, and could put the matter clearly before the Commissioners, it would be of advantage. The Commissioners, of course, would not allow the representative to go into any legal arguments. The question would not be one of law, but simply of figures, and he believed that the proposal would lead to a great saving of time, and to much greater content on the part of the taxpayer, who would no longer feel that he had been treated unjustly.

said, it would be a disadvantage if the representations to the Commissioners were turned into a legal argument; but he should be glad to know whether the grievances really existed which the hon. Member (Mr. Gedge) complained of? He believed that, under the present system, the Commissioners did not insist on personal attendance. As far as his experience went, a person could send anybody he liked to represent him; and, from his own observations, certainly it was not necessary for indi- viduals to appear in the case of the valuation of houses for Income Tax. The owner might send any person he thought fit, and if that took place under one Schedule, he did not see why it should not also be allowed under another Schedule.

said, he ventured to hope that the Chancellor of the Exchequer might see fit to agree to the Amendment which he had placed upon the Paper. Over and over again, in the course of the right hon. Gentleman's statement, he had declared that it was not his wish to strike at the lower classes of wine introduced into this country, for which they were so much indebted to the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Mid Lothian. The right hon. Gentleman said, further, that it was his wish that only high class and costly wines, especially champagne and expensive clarets, which were the luxury of the rich and seldom the luxury of the poor, should be subject to the increased duty. One of the disadvantages under which the House suffered in this discussion was that they had not been supplied by the Government with statistics showing the quantities of bottled wine from various countries which would be affected by this proposal. But in the course of the debate of last Thursday the right hon. Gentleman the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Sir James Fergusson) had given some statistics which he thought furnished a clue to the quantity of French wines which would be affected by the proposal of the Chancellor of the Exchequer if it became law. The right hon. Gentleman told the House that the British Consul at Bordeaux had reported that the quantity of wine exported from that port to the United Kingdom in bottle was 700,000 gallons. That was a very moderate estimate, although, if they took into account other French wines which were not sparkling, he thought that something like 300,000 gallons more would not be an erroneous estimate. The quantity of French wine in bottles other than champagne then affected would be not less than 1,000,000 gallons. That showed why it was that the French people might be said to be up in arms against a measure which so seriously affected their commerce; but the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs went further. He referred to some figures that were stated by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Mid Lothian, and he admitted that the quantity of wino bottled and exported from France was twice as large of champagne as of all other kinds. He said that there were 90,000 hectolitres of champagne as against 45,000 hectolitres of other kinds of wine, which showed that no less a quantity than 2,000,000 gallons of champagne were exported annually from France to this country. The tax proposed by the Bill was 2s. 6d. a-gallon, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer estimated that the tax would produce only £125,000 when taken on all classes of bottled wines brought to England, whether from France or other countries. The House would see, therefore, that the produce of the tax had been largely underestimated, and that on champagne alone the right hon. Gentleman might get twice as much as from all other kinds of winos taken together. He thought that some hon. Gentlemen had failed to perceive that, with regard to France, they were creating a sort of international animosity which might result in retaliatory measures. Retaliatory measures had been spoken of in France, and M. Goblet had had the greatest difficulty in prevailing on the Chamber not to propose retaliatory measures, the object of which would be to deprive us of the benefit of the Act of 1882, which extended to England the "Favoured Nation Clause." If the Chancellor of the Exchequer would consent to tax costly wines only, no harm would be done; but there would certainly be reprisals, if the wines which were drunk on middle-class tables were interfered with. But France was not alone concerned in this matter. There was a trade springing up between Portugal and this country, and which, strange to say, the Portuguese Government had taken measures to promote in this country by means of their Consul. He knew of one case where the Consul had endeavoured to make people acquainted with the fact that there were wines in Portugal as good as claret and Burgundy, and more than that, they had succeeded in supplying this wine in bottles at 16s. a-dozen, yet in this Bill they had a proposal to put on that wine a duty of 7s. per dozen bottles. Take the case of Spain also. Owing to the measure carried out with respect to the alcoholic scale of duties in 1886, trade was being brought back to this country. Then, again, there was Germany with her light Rhine wines, hock and Moselle, and there was Italy also trying to introduce its wines into this country; and the same might be said of Greece. As might be imagined, England could not inflict a tax of this sort upon the industries of those countries without being met at every port with vexatious imposts upon our ships by way of retaliation for this tax. This question was of particular importance from the point of view of those interested in shipping, because there were constantly little imposts inflicted upon that class of property abroad which ate away all profit that might otherwise accrue from the voyage, and really left nothing for the owners. If the Chancellor of the Exchequer would limit this excessive surtax to expensive classes of wine, he would lose nothing of the amount which the charge had been estimated to produce, and, while that alteration would not injure our trade, it would preserve to us the advantages we had enjoyed in our friendly relations with France and other countries. For these reasons he begged to move the Amendment standing in his name.

said, he had an Amendment on the Paper embodying the same principle as that of the hon. Gentleman the Member for Newcastle-upon-Tyne (Mr. Craig)—the difference between the two Amendments being, that his hon. Friend's Amendment seemed to have been suggested by way of compromise. He (Sir George Campbell) could not vote against a proposal of the Government to place a special tax on luxuries; but, at the same time, it seemed to him an enormity that Scotch whisky, worth perhaps 10s., should be charged 20s. a-dozen duty, while the rich man's champagne, worth perhaps 100s., was only charged 2s. a-dozen. It was contrary to all principle to enact that the rich man's articles of consumption should be charged less duty than the poor man's, and he would like altogether to reverse that principle. But although he very much doubted the expediency of the form in which the special tax had been laid upon champagne, yet, as he had said, he was totally unable to vote against the proposal of the Government. He thought they ought to spread their net wider to tax luxuries. As regards wine the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. Goschen) ought to have put his proposal into a more discriminating shape; he should not tax all wines equally, but make a distinction between the high class wines and the comparatively poor wines. The right hon. and learned Lord Advocate (Mr. J. H. A. Macdonald) had stated, a few days ago, in reply to the hon. Member for the Blackfriars Division of Glasgow (Mr. Provand), that it was better to keep out of the country champagne which, was sold at 20s. a dozen; but he (Sir George Campbell) thought that there was a fallacy in the reasoning of the right hon. and learned Gentleman, and that the result would be to encourage British champagnes. It was well known that at Hamburg they could supply the finest brand at 12s. a-dozen; and he thought that the British people were wanting in science if, with a Protective Duty of 7s., they could not produce an excellent bottled wine of the character of champagne. It seemed to him, therefore, that the result of taxing these cheap wines would be not to keep out low wines, but to promote the manufacture of wine in this country. He agreed that if they carried too far the taxation of wine from France it would be at the risk of irritating the French people, with whom, above all, it was most desirable to keep on good terms. He hoped the Government would be able to see their way to make some compromise in this matter, and he thought that the Amendment of his hon. Friend was a reasonable compromise to propose. He knew that it was the practice of the British Custom House Authorities to assert that it was impossible to discriminate with regard to the value of tea or wine and other things; they said they could not discriminate whether an article was fine or inferior, and that, therefore, all classes must be taxed alike. But that was not true of other countries, in all of which something in the nature of ad valorem duties were to be found. He remembered in Calcutta there were ad valorem duties, and he could affirm that he had not found the insuperable difficulties which the British Custom House officials spoke of. Therefore, he could see no insuperable difficulty in the way of carrying out the principle here. In dealing with the Wine Duties, the English Government had first offended Spain, and now they were trying to impose a duty on bottled wine from France, and wore very likely to offend that country also. He doubted whether the argument about Commercial Treaties was a sufficient reason for entering into this course of treating foreign countries; and he thought it neither right nor fair that alcohol in foreign wines should be taxed much more lightly than the alcohol in home produce. He thought his hon. Friend's Amendment was framed in fair terms, and he hoped the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer would favourably consider it.

said, that the House was aware that it was the wish and the intention of the Government to levy this tax only upon the more expensive wines. He had shown on former occasions that the tax would not be paid by the cheap wines, because they could and would be imported in casks and not in bottles. The wines of Spain and Portugal would certainly come in casks. The House generally, he understood, did not object so much to the taxing of the higher classes of wines, but to the taxing of the cheaper wines. A largo portion of these cheaper wines could be imported in casks, but there was some portion of them that could not. Her Majesty's Government would like to find means to relieve these wines, but the difficulty was as to the method of doing so. They should also be glad if by such means they removed any feelings of irritation that had been aroused abroad, for though they had pointed out that they could not adapt their fiscal system in every point to foreign susceptibilities, yet it would be very satisfactory if these were not aroused. The hon. Member, by his Amendment, proposed that wines under a certain value should be exempt from this tax. But here was the difficulty. How was the value of the wine to be tested at the port of entry—by its intrinsic value or the hopes of the seller? How could the wine be tested, except by drinking or tasting it? How could they ascertain whether it was worth 30s. a-dozen or not? He should be quite prepared to accept the Amendment of the hon. Member if any method could be discovered whereby it was possible that the value of 30s. per dozen could be arrived at without giving rise to fraud, friction, and irritation of every kind. The principle of the Amendment he accepted, but the difficulty was in its application. So far the Custom House Authorities had not been able to devise any satisfactory means of ascertaining the value of any particular class of wines, sugar, tobacco, and tea, and other products, the value of which varied in an extraordinary manner. It had been attempted to tax tea on the ad valorem principle by tasting it, but the experiment led to every kind of difficulty, and proved to be a great impediment to trade. The ad valorem theory was excellent in principle but most difficult to carry out in practice. There had been tea-tasters and there might be wine-tasters, but that was not a satisfactory system. It was suggested that the article should be taken by the Customs Authorities at the value declared. But this involved the wines being subsequently sold by auction and sacrificed. These were the difficulties that had to be faced; but he was quite prepared to promise that he would continue to consider this question with the Custom House Authorities, and that if practical means were found of determining the value of wines, he would be willing to accept the limit of exemption suggested by the hon. Member. It would not, he thought, be advisable to put into the Bill a clause in regard to which they could not at present see how it could be worked. But if the House were disposed to accept the Amendment, he would suggest that it should be modified to the following form:—

"Provided that, from a day to be fixed by an Order in Council, this section shall not apply to wines imported in bottles after that day if of a value, as determined by regulations made by the Commissioners of Customs, not exceeding 30s. per dozen bottles."

The objection, however, was that it would give very considerable power to the Treasury and to the Customs; and, though he made the suggestion, still he thought the more preferable course would be to pass the Bill as it stood, upon the pledge—which he was willing to give the House—that he would pursue the consideration of the subject in concert with the Custom House Authorities, with a view of ultimately bringing in a Bill which would show the manner in which the value might be arrived at, and enable the House to judge better as to whether the exemption was based upon proper principles.

said, the House could not but feel satisfied with the tone in which the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had met the Amendment. He (Sir William Harcourt) agreed with the right hon. Gentleman that it would be an undesirable precedent to pass a Bill containing a clause giving the Treasury a sort of roving commission in the shape of the discretionary power such as had been suggested. He should, however, much prefer to rely on the promise of the right hon. Gentleman to bring in a separate Bill dealing with the subject. If the right hon. Gentleman undertook that, in the course of the present Session, he would introduce some legislation which, under the authority of Parliament, would carry out the principle of relieving the lower-class wines, that would be most satisfactory. But he must remind hon. Gentlemen opposite that though he and his Friends were satisfied with the attitude taken by the Government in that particular instance, they objected to the tax as a whole; not on account of its character, but because of the effect it would have upon our commercial relations with France. The right hon. Gentleman had not touched upon that point, although it was a point raised by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Mid Lothian, and the objection made to the tax was not merely that it was imposed on the cheaper wines, but that the tax was calculated to affect our commercial relations with France. The House had been given to understand that Her Majesty's Government had been in communication with the Government of France on the subject, and he thought that they had a right to ask that, before the Bill went finally out of I their hands, hon. Members should be informed how the Chancellor of the Exchequer exactly stood in reference to the French Government in regard to the question. He hoped that some arrangement had been arrived at between the two countries, which would remove the grave apprehensions which there was some reason to think had been entertained; for, certainly, it seemed exceedingly ill-advised to risk serious consequences to a trade of £20,000,000 for the sake of so small a sum as this tax could produce.

said, the right hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir William Harcourt) must be aware that if the proposed plan were adopted, a large portion of the French grievance would be removed, because that grievance had been largely founded on the amount of wine that would be taxed. He should have thought it would have facilitated an amicable discussion with France, if the House would wait to see the effect of the proposal now made with regard to the cheaper wines. The right hon. Gentleman had referred to the bulk of our trade with France. Her Majesty's Government also had a very great principle at stake, and that was whether, in regard to their fiscal policy, they were not perfectly justified in maintaining their rights. The French Government, he thought, would not contest that for a moment. He deprecated the continuance of the debate at that moment with regard to the relations between France and England as to these questions, and did not think it would produce so amicable a settlement as they could desire. At the same time, he felt that he had no right to deprecate it in strong terms, if hon. and right hon. Gentlemen opposite thought it should take place, as he fully admitted their right to bring such an important matter before the House if they wished to do so.

said, he recognized the fact that Her Majesty's Government were with regard to this matter placed in a very difficult position, even more difficult than was shown by the words of the right hon. Gentleman. As the right hon. Gentleman considered it best that the clause should remain, as at present he thought the House might be satisfied if he would give an assurance that after obtaining further information the Government would bring in a Bill, not at the end of the Session, but at an early date, to secure that low wines should pay a reduced duty. He felt that full confidence would be had in the assurance of the right hon. Gentleman; but the matter was not one which would bear much longer delay, and he trusted that no time would be lost in framing a Bill under which wines of a lower class would pay a lower rate of duty. No one, it was true, liked to go back to the system of ad valorem duties, after their distinct repudiation by this country; but matters could not be left in their present state. It was unfortunate that the proposal as to wine in bottle should have been made; but, it having been made, and approved by this House, he thought it best to accept the view now taken by his right hon. Friend.

said, he wished, with the indulgence of the House, to ask the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer why, if there was to be another Bill brought in dealing with these cheap wines and the method of raising duties upon them, that Bill should not include the whole of the wine question, so that there might be time for the right hon. Gentleman not only to consult with the Custom House Authorities, but also with the French Government? He thought that would facilitate matters considerably, and he did not see that the course presented any insuperable difficulty.

said he quite agreed that the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had shown a disposition to get out of a difficulty which he thought had been gratuitously created. The right hon. Gentleman insisted that this House should have absolute liberty to control its own fiscal arrangements. There was no doubt that we could preserve our fiscal liberty. So could the French Government; and nothing was truer than that if we took this course, the liberty which the French Government possessed would very soon be exercised. [An hon. MEMBER: No, no!] He could not make an appeal to Gentlemen who did not regard the benefit of Free Trade as between the two countries. He believed he should be supported by everyone in the House when he said there was no policy which had benefited this country and the world at large more than the existing commercial arrangements between this and other countries. It was quite possible that the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer might satisfy the French Government that he intended to act in good faith under the assurance given to the House that evening, and that he would endeavour to free the cheaper wines coming into this country from the enormous surtax proposed. But this was not the whole difficulty; they might assure the French Government of this, but could they assure the French people that their wines were not to be charged at this excessive rate? He would be sorry if the House should assent to the proposal of the right hon. Gentleman as he at first submitted it. It seemed to him that the amount was so small that it was not worth while for £125,000 to run the enormous risk of a disturbance of the trade relations between England and France as well as other countries. The cheap wines of those countries would be largely on the increase in future years, and it was of the first importance that no difficulty should be thrown in their way. He ventured to enforce upon the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer the enormous necessity of the course suggested by his right hon. Friend—namely, to withdraw from the present proposal with regard to the wine tax. In making this appeal, he would ask what was the inference drawn from the proposal of the Government? It was that for the paltry sum of £125,000 it was proposed again to disturb almost in perpetuity our commercial relations with every country; and those Governments which wished to extend Free Trade with us would have additional trouble thrown upon their hands to restrain those who wished to act upon contrary principles. He did not think the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had yet measured the difficulties which underlay these proposals. The right hon. Gentleman said he would be doing a service to the bottling trade of the country.

said, he did not say that. It was not his intention to do so. He said it would not injure the proposal— that it would, perhaps, have that effect. The instance he gave was simply by way of illustration.

pointed out to the hon. Gentleman that the Question before the House was the restriction of the duty on wine.

said, he sincerely hoped that the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer would make a fuller and truer estimate of the injurious effects inseparable from his proposals as they now stood; and he suggested that the plan of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Derby (Sir William Harcourt) was far sounder—namely, to suspend the matter until the further proposals of the right hon. Gentleman were laid before the House.

asked, whether he understood that the right hon. Gentleman Sir William Harcourt had suggested that there should be a withdrawal of the whole duties?