House Of Commons
Monday, 27th June, 1892.
Message From The Lords
That they have agreed to—Consolidated Fund (Appropriation) Bill, Alkali, &c, Works Bill, Police Returns Bill, National Debt (Stockholders' Relief) Bill, Superannuation Acts Amendment (No. 2) Bill, Poor Law Schools (Ireland) Bill, Education and Local Taxation Relief (Scotland) Bill, National Education (Ireland) Bill, Military Lands (Consolidation) Bill, Railway and Canal Traffic Act (1888) Amendment Bill, Public Libraries Law Consolidation Bill, Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Bill, Land Commissioners (Ireland) Bill, Ancient Monuments Protection Act (1882) Amendment (Ireland) Bill, Contagious Diseases (Animals) Bill, Mauritius Loan Bill, Banks of England and Ireland (Payments) Bill, British Columbia (Loan) Bill, Galway Infirmary Bill, Pier and Harbour Provisional Orders (No. 3) Bill, Land Drainage Provisional Order (Morton Fen) Bill, Metropolitan Police Provisional Order Bill, Local Government (Ireland) Provisional Order (No. 3) Bill, Local Government (Ireland) Provisional Order (No. 5) Bill, Local Government (Ireland) Provisional Order (No. 4) Bill, Pier and Harbour Provisional Orders (No. 4) Bill, Local Government (Ireland) Provisional Order (No. 7) Bill, Local Government (Ireland) Provisional Orders (No. 8) Bill, Local Government (Ireland) Provisional Order (No. 9) Bill, Local Government (Ireland) Provisional Orders (No. 2) Bill, Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 7) Bill, Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 13) Bill, Local Government Provisional Order (Poor Law) Bill, Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 8) Bill, Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 9) Bill, Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 11) Bill, Local Government (Ireland) Provisional Order (No. 10) Bill, General Police and Improvement (Scotland) Provisional Order [Inverness] Bill.
Telegraphs Bill, Expiring Laws Continuance Bill, Local Government Provisional Order (No. 14) Bill, with an Amendment to each Bill.
Allotments (Scotland) Bill, Coroners' Deputies Bill, Drainage and Improvement of Land (Ireland) (No. 2) Bill, Public Health Acts Amendment Bill, Accumulations Bill, Burgh Police (Scotland) Bill, Public Works Loans Bill, Technical Instruction (Scotland) Bill, Shop Hours Bill, Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 12) Bill, Belfast Corporation (Lunatic Asylums, &c.) Bill.
Royal Assent
Message to attend the Lords Commissioners:—
The House went; and being returned:—
Mr. SPEAKER reported the Royal Assent to—
North Eastern Railway (Hull Docks) Bill Lords
(3.35.)
With your permission, Mr. Speaker, I desire to ask whether any report is to be made to the House as to the retirement of the Chairman of the Committee upon the North Eastern Railway Company's Bill for the purchase of the Hull Docks and other purposes, after the hearing of the whole of the evidence; and what effect the withdrawal of the Chairman has had on the finding of the Committee?
In reply to the question of the hon. Member, I have to say that a few minutes before the Committee sat on Friday the hon. Gentleman the Member for West Islington (Mr. Richard Chamberlain) came to me and informed me that he was under some doubt as to his being qualified to adjudicate on the Bill in consequence of some interest he had in, I think, the North Eastern Railway Company, who are promoters, I believe, of the Hull Docks Bill. I had no time to refer to any precedents; the Committee was about to sit, and I recommended the hon. Member to take the course I should have considered it my duty to take under like circumstances, having doubt as to my competency to adjudicate upon a Bill. I had the less doubt in recommending him to take that course, inasmuch as his withdrawal would not in any way invalidate the proceedings of the Committee; and the three hon. Gentlemen left on the Committee—the Chairman having withdrawn from adjudication and taking no further part in the proceedings—would be competent to choose another Chairman in his place, and proceed to deal with their Report. This they did, and, as I am informed, threw out the Bill. A Report has, in accordance with the regulations of the House, been made to the House that Mr. Richard Chamberlain—
That being the case, I do not know that the House has any remedy in its hands. Though the Chairman considered himself disqualified to act, the proceedings of the Committee were not invalidated ab initio or in any part, and in preparing their Report the Committee came to the decision to throw out the Bill. I do not think the House has any action to take in the matter."Having stated he was unable to take further part in the proceedings of the Committee on account of his being a shareholder in the North Eastern Railway Company did not further attend the Committee."
Questions
Polling Irregularity At A County Council Election
In the absence of my hon. Friend the Member for the Holmfirth Division (Mr. H. J. Wilson), I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether his attention has been called to an alleged illegal practice which took place at the polling station at Hathersage in connection with the recent Derbyshire County Council election, held on the 2nd of March; whether he is aware that Charles Eyre Bradshaw Bowles, of Abney, near Hathersage, who is registered as the owner of a certain freehold estate there, applied at the polling station at Hathersage, in contravention of the Ballot and Corrupt Practices Prevention Act, for a ballot paper in the name of Arthur Humphrey Bowles, who is registered and entitled to vote at such election in respect of his occupation of the said estate; that C. E. B. Bowles on the 2nd of March entered the polling station and applied for a ballot paper, and that the officer or clerk in charge of the ballot papers in the station read from the list of persons entitled to vote at such election the name of Arthur Humphrey Bowles, and also his description, to which question C. E. B. Bowles replied that he was the person therein mentioned; that the officer or clerk thereupon supplied C. E. B. Bowles with a ballot paper, which was afterwards spoilt and given up to the presiding officer; and whether C. E. B. Bowles applied for and obtained a second ballot paper, and afterwards placed the same in the ballot box in the usual way; and if he is satisfied that C. E. B. Bowles acted in the manner above mentioned he intends to take any and what steps in connection therewith?
My right hon. Friend has asked me to reply to this question He has received from the Returning Officer of the Derbyshire County Council the following explanation of the circumstances referred to in the question. Mr. Charles Eyre Bradshaw Bowles, of Abney, is owner of a freehold estate there, and his name is upon the Parliamentary register, but by some oversight his name was omitted from the County Council register. During the polling hours he entered the polling station, and on being asked his name by the presiding officer he replied "Mr. Bowles." The officer appears then to have read the name of Mr. Arthur Humphrey Bowles. Mr. Bowles, who is stated to be rather deaf, made no reply, and the officer states that he thinks Mr. Bowles did not hear his brother's name read. A paper was then handed to Mr. Bowles, who appears accidentally to have spoiled it and to have applied for another, which he placed in the ballot-box. The matter was brought to the attention of the Returning Officer some days after the election, and he then made full inquiry into the matter. He further states that, as Mr. Bowles is well known in the neighbourhood, holding the position he does and knowing himself to be on the Parliamentary register, he naturally assumed his name was on the Council register, or it is not likely that he would have openly acted in the way he did. The Returning Officer, on consideration of the whole matter, did not think it his duty to take any proceedings which he did not think would be successful; and my right hon. Friend does not think it is necessary, after the time which has elapsed, to interfere with his decision.
Distraint For Taxes
I beg to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will consent to lay upon the Table of the House, or otherwise supply, a copy of the instructions to collectors of taxes upon their appointment, and subsequently, as to their duties generally, and, in particular, as to their procedure in cases of distress when payment of taxes has to be enforced; if he will state if permission is at any time given by the Inland Revenue Department for the employment of unlicensed brokers by collectors of taxes; whether he is aware that a tax-gatherer, Bird, of the first East Brixton division, took an unlicensed broker with him to No. 10, Zenoria Street, S.E., and told such unlicensed broker to refuse to give his name or address, and that the man thus put in possession replied to the request for his name and address, "I refuse; and what's that got to do with you?" whether Bird was authorised to employ any person to assist him, and whom, in the enforcement of payment of taxes for the premises named; and whether Bird has made any report to the Inland Revenue Department in writing; and, as affidavits are now being made with a view to further proceedings, a copy of any and all reports in this case, made to the Inland Revenue Department or the local Commissioners, will be furnished to the persons aggrieved, so that redress may be obtained; and, if no written report has been made, then will the Department furnish the persons aggrieved with the name refused by Bird, and by the man himself who accompanied him?
I do not think that it would facilitate Public Business to lay upon the Table of the House the Papers relating to this matter. Collectors of taxes are not under the control of the Board of Inland Revenue, but of the District Commissioners. It is not required by law that a person employed by a collector in cases of distraint should be a broker. Bird has made no report in writing to the Board of Inland Revenue or the District Commissioners. The Board of Inland Revenue have no knowledge as to the name of the person employed by Bird. Bird was seen by one of the Board Inspectors, and the substance of his answers to the Inspector's inquiries was given by me in reply to a question on the 16th of this month. As I informed the hon. Member who then asked the question, complaints as to the conduct of the collector of taxes should be made to the District Commissioners, and not to me.
The Brennan Torpedo
I do not know if there is any representative of the War Department on the Treasury Bench, but I desire to ask if there is any truth in the statement which has appeared in the Press that trials have demonstrated that the Brennan torpedo is a failure and the money expended upon it has been practically thrown away?
[No answer was given.]
Voting After Eight O'clock
The Attorney General is not present, but perhaps, as it is a question of law as regards polling, the Lord Advocate can answer the question which stands in the name of the hon. Member for East Edinburgh (Mr. Wallace), namely, whether the practice of refusing to accept the votes of persons who have been admitted into the polling places before 8 p.m. but have not completed voting before 8 p.m. is in accordance with the Ballot Act; and, if not, will Returning Officers be informed that they ought to allow the voters admitted before 8 p.m. to the polling place to fill their paper and place it in the ballot box?
That is a question I could not undertake to answer without notice.
The Issue Of The Writs
I have a telegram from the Liberal election agent at Birkenhead, in which he states that the solicitors to the Municipal Corporation have been informed on inquiry at the Writ Office the Writs are not likely to issue until Wednesday; and I wish to ask does the arrangement still hold good under which it was understood that the Writs would issue on Tuesday? Perhaps the Chancellor of the Exchequer can give me an answer?
I have not heard of any change in the programme.
May I take it, then, that the Writs will issue on Tuesday?
I have not heard of any change.
Would the right hon. Gentleman be likely to have heard of any change in the arrangements?
I think it is highly probable I should have heard.
The Witnesses Protection Bill
I shall be glad to have any information that the Government may be able to give as to the position of the Witnesses Protection Bill. I understand that on Saturday a Motion to go into Committee on the Bill was rejected in the House of Lords by nineteen to ten, but I understand Lord Herschell, after the vote had been taken, expressed an intention to raise the question again today, some informality having attended the Division. Can the right hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade give us any information as to what has been done in reference to this important matter?
[No answer was given.]
Detective-Sergeant Joyce's Family
I do not know whether the President of the Board of Trade can answer the question I desire to ask in reference to the death of the detective who was shot a few days ago in London while making an arrest? It appears that the family of this officer will derive no benefit from the pension fund, to which the deceased officer had not sufficiently subscribed, and that a public subscription has been started on their behalf. I wish to ask is there no fund from which the family could receive assistance, or is there no alternative between destitution and public charity?
Before the right hon. Gentleman rises to answer, may I again press on his attention the question I asked just now? I hope, with his usual courtesy, he will at least say if he has any information to give the House.
I should have risen if I had had anything to say in answer to the hon. Member's question, but I have no information whatever. An hon. Friend informs me—and I believe it has been so stated in the Press—that the noble Lord in charge of the Bill will endeavour to proceed with it to-day. As to the question put to me by the hon. Member for Caithness, I am afraid I am quite unable to answer it.
Orders Of The Day
Telegraphs Bill—(No 440)
Lords Amendment considered.
Clause 6, page 4, line 32, leave out from ("consent") to ("and") in line 35, and insert ("of the local authority as defined by the Electric Lighting Act, 1882, for the district within which such electric line is laid"), read a second time.
Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
This Bill has been passed very rapidly through its stages in this House. In some respects it affects the powers of the London County Council, but the Council have had no opportunity of considering it. The Parliamentary Committee, however, objects to the measure; but I feel that at the present time it is useless to do more than offer a protest, and to express a hope that in future any measure affecting London shall be introduced at an earlier period, so as to allow full time for its consideration.
Question put.
(3.50.) The House divided:—Ayes 65; Noes 11.—(Div. List, No. 196.)
Shop Hours Bill—(No 438)
Lords Amendments considered.
Clause 3, page 1, line 15, after ("in") insert ("or about"); line 18, after ("will") insert ("together with the time during which he has been so previously employed"); line 24, leave out ("therein") and insert ("in that shop").
Clause 6, page 2, lines 3 and 4, leave out ("as defined in this Act"); line 5, leave out ("before") and insert ("by").
Clause 8, page 2, line 26, leave out ("corporation") and insert ("common council"); line 27, after ("Act") insert ("within the areas of their respective jurisdictions"); line 28, leave out ("sixty-nine"); line 30, after ("Act") insert—
("and as if the expression workshop as used in those sections included any shop within the meaning of this Act.")
Clause 9, page 2, lines 40 and 41, leave out ("but does not include persons wholly employed as domestic servants").
Clause 10, page 3, line 1, leave out ("shops") and insert ("a shop"); line 2, leave out from ("employed") to the end of the clause and insert—
("are members of the same family, dwelling in the building of which the shop forms part, or to which the shop is attached, or to members of the employer's family so dwelling, or to any person 'wholly' employed as a domestic servant.")
Lords Amendments agreed to.
Allotments (Scotland) Bill (No 441)
Lords Amendments considered.
Clause 16, page 14, line 16, after the first ("council") insert ("or police commissioners"); after line 17 insert—
("The expression 'burgh' includes royal and parliamentary burghs and any populous place having police commissioners under any general or local Police Act.")
Line 18, leave out ("burgh.")
Lords Amendments agreed to.
Coroners' Deputies Bill (No 442)
Lords Amendments considered.
Clause 1, page 1, line 7, leave out ("Lord Chancellor") and insert ("chairman or mayor, as the case may be, of the council who appointed the coroner"), and leave out ("the") and insert ("such"); line 8, leave out ("who appointed the coroner.")
Lords Amendments agreed to, with a consequential Amendment.
Drainage And Improvement Of Land (Ireland) (No 2) Bill (No 439)
Lords Amendments considered.
Clause 6, page 3, line 5, leave out from ("same") to ("shall") in line 7.
Clause 9, page 3, line 27, after ("loan") insert ("for the erection of buildings").
Clause 10, page 3, line 30, at the beginning of the clause insert ("subsections one, two, three, five, and six of").
Lords Amendments agreed to.
Public Health Acts Amendment Bill—(No 443)
Lords Amendments considered.
Clause 1, page 1, line 25, after ("prepaid") insert ("registered").
Page 8, after Clause 21, insert Clause A:—
(Railways and canals abutting, but non-communicating with streets, not to be chargeable with private street expenses.)
"(A.) No railway or canal company shall be deemed to be an owner or occupier for the purposes of this Act in respect of any land of such company upon which any street shall wholly or partially front or abut, and which shall at the time of the laying out of such street be used by such company solely as a part of their line of railway, canal, or siding, station, towing-path, or works, and shall have no direct communication with such street; and the expenses incurred by the urban authority under the powers of this Act which, but for this provision, such company would be liable to pay, shall be repaid to the urban authority by the owners of the premises included in the apportionments, and in such proportion as shall be settled by the surveyor; and in the event of such company subsequently making a communication with such street they shall, notwithstanding such repayment as last aforesaid, pay to the urban authority the expenses which, but for the foregoing provision, such company would in the first instance have been liable to pay, and the urban authority shall divide among the owners for the time being included in the apportionment the amount so paid by such company to the urban authority, less the costs and expenses attendant upon such division, in such proportion as shall be settled by the surveyor, whose decision shall be final and conclusive. This section shall not apply to any street existing at the date of the adoption of this Act."
Lords Amendments agreed to.
Accumulations Bill—(No 437)
Lords Amendments considered.
Clause 1, page 1, line 7, leave out ("wholly") and insert ("or partially"); line 9, leave out ("only"); leave out Clause 2.
Lords Amendments agreed to.
Burgh Police And Health (Scotland) Bill—(No 435)
Lords Amendments considered.
Clause 17, page 11, line 34, leave out from ("final") to the end of the clause.
Clause 27, page 16, line 15, after ("Session") insert—
"(2.) Nothing contained in this Act shall affect the patrimonial rights of any body of feuars at the passing of this Act administered by the town council of any burgh or barony."
Clause 51, page 24, line 17, leave out from ("time") to the end of the clause.
Lords Amendments agreed to.
Clause 62, page 28, line 22, leave out ("nor as an election agent in any parliamentary election").
Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
I have only just received a copy of the Bill from the Public Bill Office, and thus have not been able to read the Amendments. In the old form there were no such words, but an Amendment was introduced by myself to disqualify one class of officials. That Amendment was adopted by the Lord Advocate, but has since been taken out. I do not think these clerks ought to be agents to any candidates.
Lords' Amendment agreed to.
Clause 77, page 32, line 23, after ("also") insert ("if appointed after the fifteenth day of May, one thousand eight hundred and ninety-four").
This is another Amendment regarding which I think we might have some explanation from the Lord Advocate. On the Committee stage he adopted an Amendment of mine, and on the Report stage certain words modifying the Amendment were inserted. I then pointed out that it would be hard if the present Medical Officers of Health were compelled to get registered qualification. As far as I can understand the Amendment, it appears that a medical officer might not be qualified at all if appointed before 15th May, 1894. I should like to know whether this Amendment will compel qualification in medicine and also in public health. For the latter, I think, medical officers should have at least twelve months' time to qualify. Changes of this kind ought to conserve the rights of the present holders, and in their favour I want a restriction.
This Amendment has been framed on the lines which the hon. Member himself approved, although in the details it perhaps goes a little further. I do not myself see that any objection can be taken to the limit which the House of Lords have suggested in this clause.
Lords Amendment agreed to.
Other Lords Amendments agreed to.
Public Works Loans Bill—(No 436)
Lords Amendments considered.
Clause 3, page 1, line 23, leave out ("First.")
Clause 6, page 2, leave out Clauses 6 to 9.
Schedules—page 4, line 1, leave out ("Schedules"); line 2, leave out ("First"); page 5, line 17, leave out the Second Schedule.
Lords Amendments agreed to.
Water Orders Confirmation Bill Lords—(No 427)
Reported, without Amendment; read the third time, and passed, without Amendment.
Electric Lighting Orders Confirmation (No 5) Bill Lords—(No 428)
Reported, without Amendment; read the third time, and passed, without Amendment.
Expiring Laws Continuance Bill—(No 418)
Lords Amendment to be considered forthwith; considered, and agreed to.
Local Government Provisional Order (No 14) Bill—(No 358)
Lords Amendment to be considered forthwith; considered, and agreed to.
Technical Instruction (Scotland) Bill—(No 444)
Lords Amendments to be considered forthwith; considered, and agreed to.
Local Government Provisional Orders (No 12) Bill—(No 352)
Lords Amendments to be considered forthwith; considered, and agreed to.
Belfast Corporation (Lunatic Asylums, &C) Bill
Lords Amendments to be considered forthwith; considered, and agreed to.
Message From The Lords
That they have agreed to,—Witnesses (Public Inquiries) Protection Bill, Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 10) Bill, Local Government Provisional Order (No. 15) Bill, with Amendments.
Witnesses (Public Inquiries) Protection Bill—(No 365)
Lords Amendments to be considered forthwith; considered, and agreed to.
Local Government Provisional Orders (No 10) Bill—(No 345)
Lords Amendments to be considered forthwith; considered, and agreed to.
Local Government Provisional Order (No 15) Bill—(No 374)
Lords Amendments to be considered forthwith; considered, and agreed to.
Customs
Copy presented,—of Thirty-sixth Report of the Commissioners for the year ended 31st March 1892 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
Savings Banks
Return presented,—relative thereto (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 272, of Session 1890–91) [ordered 4th March; Mr. Maclure]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 347.]
Building Societies
Return presented,—relative thereto (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 154, of Session 1890–91) [ordered 16th May; Sir John Lubbock]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 348.]
Bankruptcy Act, 1883 (Proceedings)
Account presented, — showing Receipts and Expenditure on account of Bankruptcy Proceedings during the year ended 31st March 1892 [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 349.]
Civil List Pensions
Copy presented, — of List of all Pensions granted during the year ended 20th June 1892 [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 350.]
Companies (Winding-Up) Act, 1890
Account presented, — showing the Receipts and Expenditure in respect of proceedings under the Act during the year ended 31st March 1892 [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 351.]
Whereupon, in pursuance of the Order of the House, Mr. Speaker adjourned the House without Question put.
House adjourned at twenty-five minutes after Four o'clock.