I beg to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether his attention has been drawn to the prosecution last week of Mr. Bandy, by the Inland Revenue, before the Highgate Bench of magistrates, for driving a vehicle without a licence on the 16th May; whether he is aware that it came out in the trial that Mr. Bandy had only on that very day purchased the vehicle and was driving it home for the first time, and that this fact was known to the Inland Revenue and its officer from the 16th May to the 6th July, and yet the prosecution was persisted in and the fact not stated by the Inland Revenue officials at the Court; whether he is aware that the Bench dismissed the summons with the rebuke that the case should never have been brought into Court; and, whether he will inquire into the matter, and take steps to prevent such annoyance and expense to persons from the Inland Revenue officers in future?

Mr. Bandy was observed driving the vehicle on 16th April. Notice was sent to him as to the necessity of taking out a licence, but no licence was taken out till May 18th, after the time allowed by law had expired. The officer who reported the case mentioned the explanation given by Mr. Bandy—that he had only purchased the vehicle on the day in question. This explanation, however, was unfortunately overlooked at the Head Office, and a prosecution was ordered. The Board of Inland Revenue much regret that such an oversight should have occurred, and I do not think any action of mine is necessary to prevent its recurrence.

I beg to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether it would be possible to reduce the rate of interest on loans granted to parish authorities?

The Local Loans Fund, as at present constituted, cannot afford to reduce the rate of interest on local loans. The Government is bound by statute to pay 3 per cent. on all the stock by which the money for making the loans was raised, and, after payment, of this interest and other statutory charges, the fund only just shows a balance on the right side.

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that, owing to the absence of adequate barrack accommodation in Dingwall, the county town of Ross-shire, the men of the 3rd battalion of the Seaforth Highlanders (the Ross and Cromarty Militia) have to be annually taken by train to and from Fort George in Inverness-shire, a distance of 28 miles from Dingwall, at a cost of over £200 per annum: that at present there is only barrack accommodation in Dingwall for four sergeants; that the other members of the permanent staff, consisting of two staff sergeants, ten colour sergeants, eight sergeants, and ten drummers, have to find accommodation where they can, at a cost to the country of about £290 per annum; and that the allowance to the sergeants and drummers for such accommodation is only 4d. per diem; whether the Government will increase the allowance to an adequate sum; and whether a scheme for the creation of a depot, with suitable accommodation in Dingwall for the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd battalions of the Seaforth Highlanders, is under the consideration of the Govern ment; and, if not, whether such a scheme, if submitted, would receive the favourable consideration of the Government?

The question of removing the headquarters of the Seaforth Highlanders has frequently been considered, but as the quarters at Fort George are suitable and are not required for any other purpose, it has been held that the heavy expense involved in building barracks at Dingwall would not be justified. An increase in the rate of lodging allowance for married soldiers is under consideration.

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, whether Her Majesty's Government have recently increased the number of Commercial Attachés in Europe and taken other steps to advance British trade abroad; and, in such case, if he can indicate to the House the nature of the measures which have been adopted by Lord Salisbury and the Foreign Office to increase the demand in neutral markets for the products of British and Irish labour and to enable manufacturers and merchants in the United Kingdom to have the latest and most accurate commercial information?

Since Her Majesty's Government came into power, they have given very attentive consideration to the question of British commercial interests abroad, and in the Consular and Commercial Departments of the Foreign Office we have made the following suggestions, which have received the approval of the Secretary of State:—1. Two new Commercial Attachés will be appointed—one to Germany, the Nether-land, and Scandinavia, to reside at Berlin; the other for Spain and Portugal, to reside at Madrid. The Commercial Attachéship at Paris has been re-organised, and its district will, in future, cover France, Belgium, and Switzerland. The Commercial Attaché ship in Russia and Western Asia has also been reconstituted, and the southeastern parts of Europe have been included, while Asia has been excluded from its sphere. 2. A Consul for Lombardy has been appointed to reside at Milan with a special view to the collection of commercial information. The Consular Staff in Siam will be increased by two new appointments; but the exact area of the new Consuls' jurisdictions are not yet fixed. We hope before long to appoint additional British Consuls in Yunnan to promote the interests of British trade in that quarter. Several new Consulships are in course of being created for the new ports that have been opened to foreign trade by the Treaty of Shimonosoki between China and Japan. Mr. Brennen, Her Majesty's Consul at Canton, has been dispatched on a special mission of inquiry to the treaty ports of China, Corea and Japan, to report upon the manner in which British trade has been affected by the recent war. Mr. Austin Lee, who is about to succeed Sir Joseph Crewe as Commercial Attaché at Paris, is engaged in the preparation of a special Report upon the regulations with regard to trade and shipping of the Continental ports competing with the port of London. As a result of communications which have passed between the Foreign Office and the Association of Chambers of Commerce, supplementary instructions are in course of being issued to Her Majesty's Consuls regarding assistance to trade, the collection of samples, and information of a commercial nature. More complete arrangements have recently been made for the immediate publication in the Press of invitations for tenders for work abroad. Arrangements have been made for the official participation of Great Britain in the Exhibitions to be held next year at Brussels and in 1900 at Paris, and Parliament will be asked to make grants for this purpose.

asked whether the Government would arrange for a discussion of the Diplomatic and Consular Vote.

asked how many commercial attachés there were.

There are two new attachés in Europe, and the spheres of the other commercial attachés have been reorganised. I believe that the First Lord of the Treasury is well aware of the views entertained by some hon. Members as to a Debate on the Consular Vote, and I am not at all anxious to avoid it.

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, whether Her Majesty's Government can communicate to the House a list of, and any material portions of, the political treaties, exceeding 400 in number, which, according to the statement of the Chairman of the Company at its meeting of the 17th July, have been entered into by the Niger Company with native chiefs; whether there are still sufficient reasons for withholding from the public Sir Claude Macdonald's Report of 1890 regarding the Niger Company's territories, or whether the House can now be furnished at least with those portions of it to which the late Under Secretary of State alluded as in the main highly satisfactory; and whether it is now possible to communicate to the House the remainder of Sir John Kirk's Report, from which an extract only has hitherto been laid before the House?

A list of some of these treaties, numbering over 340, with specimens of the forms in which they were concluded, was given in Vol. T. of the "Map of Africa by Treaty," a copy of which has been placed in the Library of the House. The work in question is now under revision, and will shortly be reissued. Sir Claude Macdonald's Report of 1890, which was described by Sir James Fergusson when Under Secretary of State as of a satisfactory nature, was a confidential document, and it is not proposed to publish it. Sir John Kirk's Report on the Brass River has been laid in full. Her Majesty's Government do not propose to lay any opinions which may have been expressed by him for their confidential information.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, will he explain why it is that the Customs Duty payable in the country of destination of a parcel sent abroad from the United Kingdom cannot be prepaid, but is collected from the addressee on delivery; and, whether he will direct that the sender of a parcel from this country to any place abroad shall be permitted to prepay in postage stamps the duty chargeable on such parcel in the country of destination?

Customs Duties are as a rule paid by the importer of dutiable goods, so that the addressee of a parcel sent abroad by Parcel Post is under no exceptional disability as distinguished from a recipient by ordinary agency in having to pay duty on the contents when he receives them. Believing however that in some cases it would be a convenience for the sender of a parcel if he could arrange for its delivery to the addressee free of all charges, the Postmaster General has for some time been considering whether such an arrangement would be practicable in connection with the Parcel Post. No decision has yet been arrived at. The difficulty is one which arises rather in connection with the transmission of presents and parcels of that description than with ordinary commercial consignments.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, whether he is aware that, in the case of Rate Collector Jervois, of the Skibbereen Poor Law Union, the Guardians have unanimously requested the Local Government Board to consider their decision that Mr. Jervois should be called on to resign in consequence of some alleged irregularities in his collection; will he state what the length of Mr. Jervois' service is, and whether the amount of arrears of rate due in his district has decreased since the date of his appointment; and, whether the Local Government Board can now see their way to accede to the request of the Guardians, and at any rate postpone their action so as to give the official in question a further period of probation?

The Guardians have passed a resolution to the effect stated in the first paragraph. Mr. Jervois has had nearly 11 years service as collector. At the date of his appointment there was an arrear of £591, which amount has since been exceeded on three occasions. The average arrear since he entered on his duties has been £464, while the average of his predecessor for the last seven years he held the appointment was £206 and on one occasion stood as low as £46. The Local Government Board have also had in view the fact that only last year Mr. Jervois was threatened with dismissal, but in deference to the wishes of the Guardians was allowed to retain his position on the distinct understanding that if further well-grounded complaints were made against him, they would not permit him to continue in office. The Board now feel it would be contrary to the interests of the ratepayers of the union to allow Mr. Jervois to retain any longer the office of collector.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether an appointment has yet been made to the postmastership at the Old Head of Kinsale; whether the Secretary to the Post Office, Dublin, has received a memorial signed by the lighthouse keepers, coastguards, Lloyd's signal staff, and the principal residents of the district, recommending for the appointment the daughter of the late postmaster, who assisted in the office for eight years and discharged the duties during the illness of her father; and, in view of the fact that a licensed publican was appointed temporarily to the position after a delay of two months, will he state whether it is legal, or according to the practice of the Department, that a licensed publican should be appointed to the position of postmaster?

No appointment has yet been made to the Sub-office at Old Head, Kinsale. This office was until recently designated Garrylucas and was situate three-quarters of a mile from the village of Old Head, and on the death of the late sub-postmaster the opportunity was taken of removing it from Garrylucas to Old Head. Any memorial which may have been received at Dublin on behalf of the daughter of the late sub-postmaster of Garrylucas will be considered by the Postmaster General before he decides on the appointment. A publican is temporarily carrying on the work of the office. This is contrary to the usual practice of the Department but no one else could be found at Old Head to undertake it.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, is he aware that a presentment passed at a special road sessions for the construction of a ditch or fence in the townland of Garry-duff, county Monaghan, is actually being carried out in the different townland of Cargabawn; will he state by what authority has this change been made, and whether it is legal to change a contract in this way from one townland to another?

A presentment was passed for certain alterations to a road in the townland of Garryduff. No departure from the terms of the presentment has been authorised by the grand jury, or county surveyor, nor would any work except that approved be accepted from the contractor in discharge of his contract.

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War, whether there are sufficient tent boards at Aldershot to provide for the whole of the forces encamped in standing camps during the ensuing autumn; and, if so, whether there is any reason for regular regiments now in camp being ordered to give up their tent boards and hand them over to the Militia?

There are sufficient tent boards at Aldershot to meet all requirements of the Militia as well as of the standing camp for regulars at Pirbright. Tent boards are not, as a rule provided for regular troops, but are occasionally issued if recommended on medical grounds. If the General Officer commanding should consider them necessary for any corps, he would without doubt make a demand for them.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies, whether he has now had the opportunity of considering the report of the subcommittee, appointed by the committee of management of the Emigrants' Information Office for the purpose of inquiring into the working of that office; and, if so, whether he has sanctioned the recommendations made in the report referred to; also, if he will permit the publication of the report?

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies, with reference to his con tern plated reorganisation of the Emigrants' Information Office, whether he will consider the advisability of locating the office in the group of buildings in Victoria Street, Westminster, now occupied by the Agents General for the Colonies; and, whether, with a view to increasing the efficiency of the Emigrants' Information Office, he will invite the active co-operation of the Agents General, as the official representatives of the Colonies, in its future management and control?

I have communicated the Report on the working of the Emigrants' Information Office to the Agents General for self-governing colonies and am considering their replies, but the whole of them have not yet reached me. The Committee have throughout received much valuable assistance from these gentlemen, and are able to look forward with pleasure to the continuance of their co-operation which they promise to give. But the addition of ten more members to the committee of management is a matter which would require much careful consideration, for large committees do not constitute the best machinery for dealing with a business which largely consists of details, and I should be afraid of diminishing the efficiency of a body which is now working admirably. Many of the recommendations made by the committee meet with my concurrence, and as soon as Treasury approval has been obtained for the increased expenditure I shall be in a position to give effect to such of the recommendations as are desirable. The Report, with a few other papers on the subject, shall be given to Parliament with as little delay as possible. The question of the premises to be occupied by the office will have to be dealt with shortly, but the buildings occupied by the Agents General are not Government property, and the rent of adequate accommodation there would, I much fear, be prohibitive.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that the Chief Receiver of the Land Judges' Court, on 30th April 1896, gave directions that a tenant upon Lord Huntingdon's estate should not be allowed to apply in the local County Court to fix a fair rent, but that this must be done by the Land Commission; will he obtain a copy of this ruling, and state why it was made; and who is the County Court Judge affected.

I am informed by the Chief Receiver of the Land Judges' Court that no ruling was made in which the County Court Judge was referred to. An ejectment was taken in the County Court against the tenant in question; his rent was £6 a year and he owed £69 to November 1895. Mr. Justice Ross ordered, with the consent of the owner and petitioner, £57 of this arrear to be struck off, and directed that the tenant should apply to the Sub-commissioners to have a fair rent fixed.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether the Records in the Office of Ulster King of Arms in Dublin Castle are kept in a wooden cupboard, and are thereby exposed to irreparable loss by fire or accident; and will a safe be provided for them?

It is a fact that the shelving on which the Records referred to are kept is of wood. The question of the safe custody of the Records was specially considered some years ago and the present keeper of the State Papers expressed the opinion that it would be sufficient to do away with the system of open fire places and to substitute hot water pipes in the Tower rooms. This arrangement was carried out.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury what steps steps have been taken with regard to the memorial presented in December 1893, to the Treasury through the Science and Art Department, South Kensington, on behalf of the employees in the Works Department there, praying that the petitioners might be accorded the benefit of superannuation; and what action the Treasury intend to take with regard to the request therein contained?

The reply of the Treasury to this Memorial was given so far back as the 19th November 1894. In that reply it was stated that—

"A proposal to review the general arrangements under which workmen in continuous Government employment are engaged on full market rate of wages, and without a claim to pension, is one which affects very large bodies of men, and could not be confined to a particular Department,"

I beg to ask the Lord Advocate whether he is aware that in the burgh of Dunbar a hotel proprietor failed to apply for a renewal of his licence from the magistrates who are the licensing authority in the burgh, and no certificate being granted he obtained a licence from the Inland Revenue; and, whether there is anything to prevent the magis trates being habitually passed over, and application being made direct to the Inland Revenue Department?

The Inland Revenue have no power to grant a hotel licence without a certificate from the licensing magistrates. In this case the hotel proprietor applied for a certificate, but he inadvertently omitted to lodge his application till some days after the time for so doing had expired, and the licensing magistrates were, therefore, unable to grant a certificate. They, however, endorsed and unanimously supported a memorial from the proprietor to the Board of Inland Revenue, praying to be allowed to carry on his business till he should have another opportunity of applying for a certificate; and the Board, considering that he had failed to obtain a certificate merely because of a technical objection to his application, instructed their officers not to interfere with him in carrying on his business till he should have an opportunity to make another application.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury what steps are being taken by the Board of Control in connection with the erection of the new asylum at Portrane; and have tenders been publicly advertised for, or is it the intention of the Board to invite only a limited number of builders to enter?

With the permission of my right hon. Friend, I will reply to this Question. Tenders for building the new asylum at Portrane were invited by public advertisement, and at the meeting of the Board of Control held on the 21st instant, one of the tenders received was accepted. Arrangements are now in progress for carrying on the work.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether his attention has been called to the frequent instances in which persons in a state of intoxication are landed from excursion steamers plying between Bristol and other ports in the Bristol Channel; and, if so, whether such steamers are under any licensing control as regards the supply of intoxicating liquors to passengers and others on board, and in what authority is the granting and control of such licences vested; whether, if licensed, the licensee of any such steamer would become liable to penalties and forfeiture of licence on conviction of having supplied intoxicating liquors to persons intoxicated; whether the local police of any port or the harbour authority of any port have power to prevent the landing of passengers and other persons from such steamers when such passengers and other persons are undoubtedly intoxicated; and, whether the owners or lessees or such steamers would be liable to penalties on conviction that they or their employees have not exercised reasonable means to prevent passengers from becoming intoxicated whilst on board such steamers by use of liquors the latter may have conveyed on board?

The sale of intoxicating liquors on these steamer's is carried on under a licence granted by the Commissioners of Inland Revenue in pursuance of section 45 of the Act 43 & 44 Vic, cap 20. The Licensing Act of 1872 does not apply to these licences, and there are no provisions in the Act under which the licence is granted dealing with the sale of drink to intoxicated persons. As to what powers the police may have, under the Merchant Shipping or other Acts of that kind, I have no information.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland what amount of Guaranteed Land Stock has been exchanged for consolidated annuities under Section 15 of the Land (Ireland) Purchase Act of 1891?

On Friday last I stated in reply to a Question of the hon. Member for Cork that the amount of Guaranteed Land Stock held by the National Debt Commissioners was £1,558,862. It now appears that the amount was understated, and that it should have been stated to be £1,672,882. This sum includes the stock held by the Bank of Ireland, who act as agents for the National Debt Commissioners.

That is, about one and a half millions have been exchanged for Consols?

It is something like that.

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will lay upon the Table the statement of the Venezuelan case submitted to the American Commission of Inquiry?

The Venezuelan statement is not yet in our possession. It is being sent home by Her Majesty's Ambassador at Washington, and when received there will be no objection to laying copies before Parliament.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he will lay upon the Table any information as to the limits and present condition as to the population and otherwise of the "Settlements" within the territory in dispute between Her Majesty's Government and the Republic of Venezuela?

The definition of settlements and the determination of what constitutes occupation have to be decided in the first place by negotiation and afterwards by detailed inquiry on the spot. I am afraid I have no information which would enable me beforehand to state the limits and conditions of settlements in British Guiana.

said the question was whether Lord Salisbury promised Mr. Olney, in reply to two applications, to consult the right hon. Gentleman and to convey to Mr. Olney the views which he hoped to ascertain from his right hon. Friend. Had any information of this kind been conveyed to the American Government?

understood that his right hon. Friend was asking as to the correspondence which had passed between the Foreign Secretary and Mr. Olney. The right hon. Gentleman ought to give notice of the Question.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, will he explain why it is that a cheque crossed to payee's account and payable at a specified bank may be written on an ordinary postcard, and so transmitted through the post, whereas it is forbidden by the regulations to transmit an ordinary cheque, crossed and payable as aforesaid, in an open envelope at the halfpenny book-post rate; and, whether he will direct that in future a cheque crossed to payee's account and payable at a specified bank shall be transmissible (as being valueless to any but the person named therein as payee) in an open envelope at the book-rate?

It does so happen that there is no regulation forbidding the transmission by post of an ordinary postcard on which a cheque crossed or otherwise may have been written, but the Postmaster General has never heard of such a postcard having been sent—[my hon. Friend Mr. Barnes, has however, just shown me one]—and if cheques were so sent it might be the duty of the Postmaster General to take measures to stop the practice. The transmission of paper money of any kind in open envelopes is obviously undesirable and places temptation in the way of officers of the Department and others into whose hands the packets may come. Paper money is defined in the warrant which forbids the transmission of such packets as meaning, inter alia, "all orders and authorities for the payment of money whether negotiable or not," and the Postmaster General is not prepared to take any steps for allowing crossed cheques to be sent in open covers at the book-post rate.

May I ask whether the postcard which I have shown to the right hon. Gentleman has been sent through the Post Office contrary to regulations?

I do not think it is contrary to the regulations at present. But the Postmaster General is of opinion that if it becomes a habit a regulation would have to be framed forbidding it.

At the present moment the sending of such cheques is not forbidden?

No, Sir.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, whether he can state at what period the block of 6,100 shares held by the Board of Works as a lien on the Cavan and Leitrim Light Railway Company were sold at3/16 the premium, and when the block of 2,578 shares were sold at £2 15s. premium; and, what would have been the reduction in the an anal contribution from the cesspayers in the guaranteeing area in South Leitrim if all these shares had been sold at £2 15s. premium.

There was a misprint in the report on which my last answer on this subject was based, and the 5 3/16 should have been 5 13/16. The 6,100 shares which realised 5 13/16 were sold at various dates between 25th March 1891 and 30th September 1892. The 2,578 shares were transferred in the present year, 2,525 on the 29th April and 53 on the 14th May. The sales took place a few days before the transfers. If the 6,100 shares had been sold at 7¾, the reduction in the annual contribution of South Leitrim would have been approximately 2¼d. instead of 1¼d. per £ of valuation. In addition to the shares being held as security, the Board also had in respect of them all the powers of sale of an ordinary shareholder. The intention of the Treasury was to realise as soon as the 4 per cent. shares (West Clare) approached par and the 5 per cent. shares a fairly proportionate price. The price of 5 13/16 equals £116 per 100, which was about equal to par for 4 per cent. stock.

I beg to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if the inquiry he promised to make early in the Session as to the practicability of issuing a new index to the Acts of Parliament prior to 1800, as also of those passed in the years 1800 to 1865 has been held; and, if so, will he give orders to the officials concerned to make the necessary preparations for carrying out the work as soon as possible?

I have inquired into this matter, and, so far as I am able to judge, the index would not be of such interest or utility to the general public as would justify the expenditure which its issue would involve. But, if I should receive any recommendation from the Statute Law Revision Committee on this subject, of course I will further consider it.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that managers of national schools in Ireland, when they desire to build residences for their teachers, have to provide sites, incur all expenses of title, produce two lay sureties under 45 years of age each holding property worth £400, keep the houses in repair after they are built at their own expense, and pay all taxes; is he aware that the rate now charged for the money advanced is 3½ per cent., though Government can borrow at 2⅛ per cent.; is he aware that the teachers in many parts of Ireland are very much in need of suitable residences; and, will he consider this matter with a view of reducing the rate of interest and removing the difficulties imposed upon managers at the present time, so as to facilitate the erection of houses for the teachers of national schools in Ireland?

Managers who apply for loans with which to build teachers' residences have to provide sites and to bear the incidental legal expenses, including the cost of the leases, but the sureties need not be worth £400; it is sufficient if they are solvent to the satisfaction of the Commissioners. Moreover, if such a residence is vested in the Commissioners, it is maintained by the State without cost to the manager. The rate of interest charged on these loans is £3 8s. 3d.; the inquiry as to the rate at which the Government borrow money should be addressed to the Treasury. It is true, I believe, that teachers in many parts of Ireland are much in need of suitable residences. There is no limitation to the number of loans that may be granted each year for such residences, and the number of applications for loans to build residences since 1875, when the Residences Act came into operation, is 1,175. I have already, in previous answers to questions on this subject, mentioned that very substantial aid is given by the Commissioners to managers in the matter of these loans by contributing one-half of the annual instalment payable in reimbursements of the loans. The borrower accordingly pays only a moiety of the annuity during the outstanding of the loan.

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, if he can make any statement with regard to negotiations with France as to Madagascar; and, whether concessions by the Government of Madagascar made before the recent invasion have been divided into two classes, of which one is to be regarded as void, while the other is to be annulled with compensation?

The negotiations with France as to Madagascar are still pending and I regret that I have at present nothing to add to the last statement which I made on the subject. It is understood that no final decision has yet been taken by the French Government in regard to concessions in the island.

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, if Her Majesty's Government is aware that another King has been elected in Samoa in opposition to Malietoa, at German instigation, in the person of young Tamasese; if he is also aware that Herr Brandeis, whose endeavours to annex Samoa to Germany some years ago were only defeated by the action of the United States, is returning to Samoa next month in the capacity of Chief Justice: if Her Majesty's Government has agreed to the annexation of Samoa by Germany; and, if not, what steps does it propose to take to prevent such annexation?

The answer to all three questions is in the negative.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, whether the Land Tax Commissioners' Names Bill will be introduced again next Session; whether, in that case, the names which may have been handed in by Members this year at the Public Rill Office will be inserted in the schedule, or whether a fresh nomination will be necessary; and, whether the Measure will provide for the removal of the property qualification, by which the choice of suitable persons is at present restricted?

Yes, Sir, the Bill will be re-introduced next Session. The Gentlemen whose names have been handed in at the Public Bill Office will not necessarily have to be nominated afresh. As regards the last paragraph, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer has already stated, in reply to a question put by the hon. Member for Flint Boroughs on the 23rd instant, that he is not, at any rate at present, in a position to propose any alteration in the law.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department, whether his attention has been called to proceedings under Sub-section (3), of Section (27), of the Factory and Workshop Act, 1895; and, whether he can state, in view of the conflicting decisions arrived; at by various magistrates, if the subsection is intended to apply to bakehouses temporarily unoccupied on the 1st of January 1896?

I have seen newspaper reports of two cases in which proceedings have been instituted under the sub-section referred to. The question, however, as to the correct interpretation of the sub-section is one of law which I have no authority to decide and which can only be settled by an appeal to the High Court. I understand that in both cases appeals are pending.

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War, whether, seeing that the drains of the East and West Cavalry Barracks at Aldershot are being overhauled, and that the men and horses have been sent into camp on account of the drains, will he explain why the women and children belonging to these regiments are still occupying the barracks?

The old drains in the Cavalry Barracks at Aldershot have not yet been opened; but it was necessary to remove the men and horses in order to facilitate the laying of new drain pipes. These new pipes have not yet been connected with the buildings. The branches of the drains which drain the married quarters will not be disturbed, so that, with the principal Medical Officer's consent, the women and children are at present left in occupation. Every precaution will be taken in regard to the matter in question.

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War, whether the practice prevailing in the Portsmouth district is, that the regiment quartered in the Portsdown Hill Forts, several miles out, shall be moved into the town on any barracks becoming vacant; whether an exception has been made in the case of the 2nd Wiltshire: and, whether the Secretary of State has reason to believe that it is the general wish and desire of the regiment that the usual rule should in their case be strictly adhered to as soon as an opportunity occurs?

The distribution of troops within a command is a matter for the General Officer to settle. I believe that the usual practice is as stated in the question. In the case of the Wiltshire Regiment it has been departed from at the request of the Commanding Officer.

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, whether his attention has been called to the action of the Turkish Minister of Police, Nazim Pasha, who summoned the members of the clerical and lay Armenian Councils, and, after stating that he held them personally responsible for any disorders that might occur, threatened them individually with the severest penalties; whether the clerical and lay Armenian Councils, being bodies constituted solely for ecclesiastical purposes, can be properly held responsible for the maintenance of order in the Turkish capital; whether the interference of Nazim Pasha with the members of those Councils, and the threats used by him, contravene the 62nd Article of the Berlin Treaty, which stipulates that no hindrance shall be offered either to the ecclesiastical organisations of the various communions or to their relations with their spiritual chiefs; and, what action has been taken or will be taken by Great Britain and the other contracting Powers?

It would appear from a Report received from Her Majesty's Chargé d' Affaires at Constantinople this morning, that a warning of the kind was given to the lay members of the Patriarchal Council, though Mr. Herbert does not mention that the members of the Council were threatened individually with severe penalties. The extent to which they could properly be held responsible for any disorders would, no doubt, depend on evidence of their complicity in them. The warning can scarcely, however, be said to be a contravention of Article LXII. of the Treaty of Berlin. Her Majesty's Government have not yet learned the view of the other signatory Powers on the incident, and must reserve their decision until they do so.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies, if he will explain the reason for the inequality of treatment which exists between the native and European doctors officially employed on the Gold Coast, under which English surgeons get leave every year, and when they come to Europe, not only have a free passage, but full pay during their absence, from the Colony, whereas their native brethren have to wait several years before they can obtain a temporary release from their duties, and have then to pay their passage, and only receive half pay for half the period of their leave.

This treatment is not peculiar to doctors, but the Colony cannot afford to give the same terms as to leave which are necessary to enable Europeans to work on the Gold Coast, to men, who, being natives, are inured to the climate, and do not want a frequent change to a cold climate.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, will he explain why it is that, although an Inquiry under the Labourers Acts was held in February 1895 in Cavan, at which 33 cottages were passed for erection, no arbitration Inquiry has been held; and, can he explain the delay in these proceedings, or state who is to blame in the matter?

The Provisional Order confirming the Scheme for the erection of 32, not 33, cottages was issued by the Local Government Board in November last. Petitions having since been lodged against the Order, the cases were heard by the Privy Council on the 16th instant, and the confirming Order is expected to be issued immediately. Until this has been done the Arbitrator cannot hold a sitting. There has been no avoidable delay in the proceedings.

I beg to ask the hon. Member for Thirsk, as a Charity Commissioner, whether he is aware that a considerable portion of the Covent Garden Theatrical Fund has accrued from the contributions of the charitable public in bygone years; and, whether that fact will bring the fund and its proper management within the official purview of the Charity Commissioners?

All the information which the Charity Commissioners possess as to this Fund is derived from the Act of 12 Geo. III., mentioned in the answer to the Question previously put. The Commissioners are not aware that a considerable portion of the Fund is derived from contributions as stated in the Question. But as the Act already mentioned deals with the fund as a benefit society it does not appear that the presence of these contributions would operate to remove the exemption from the jurisdiction of the Commissioners accorded to benefit societies.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies, whether any progress has been made in the matter of nominating a Colonial Judge as a member of the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council?

The Chief Justice of the Cape Colony has been appointed a member of the Privy Council. I have received communications on the subject from the Governors of various Colonies of Australasia, and am expecting to hear further in a short time. I have not as yet received any communication from the Governor General of Canada.

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether he can state what was the amount of the bill of costs, expenses, and other charges paid or payable by the Commissioners of Irish Lights to their own solicitor for the defence of the action of Harrison against them; and, whether he can give the name of the present contractor employed to attend the Slyne Head Lighthouse stations, and the date of his contract with the Irish Lights Commissioners?

The costs paid by the Commissioners of Irish Lights to their solicitor in Harrison's case were £243 Os. 6d.; the witnesses' expenses were £46 Is. 8d. The present contractor employed to attend the Slyne Head Lighthouse Stations is John King, Slackport, County Galway, whose tender was sanctioned on the 24th August 1895.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether the Government will; consider the subject of Town Tenants, and bring in a Bill next Session dealing with the matter?

The Government cannot give any pledge to deal with this matter.

I beg to ask the Lord Advocate whether, having regard to the fact that the Chancellor of the Exchequer has admitted the justice of Ireland being paid the amount short paid of the Fee Grant payable to Ireland, the Scotch Office will make a similar demand upon the Treasury on behalf of Scotland for payment of the amount short paid of the Fee Grant to Scotland?

The Scotch Education Department has repeatedly pressed upon the attention of the Treasury the claim which arises on behalf of Scotland in respect of the supplementary fee grants to England during the financial years from 1802–93. The Treasury have admitted that claim in respect of the financial year.1895–96, and have submitted a supplementary estimate accordingly. The Scotch Education Department is still in communication with the Treasury in regard to the question of the arrears in respect of the preceding years.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty will he explain why boys who propose to join the Navy from industrial schools are entered on a form which denotes that they are suffering from some disability; and whether, in view of the advantage of encouraging boys carefully trained in these schools to enter the Navy, steps will be taken to place such lads upon an equal footing with other candidates?

Boys entering the Navy from industrial schools execute the same form of engagement as all other boys, and after entry are on precisely the same footing. There is no form of the character alluded to in the first paragraph of the Question.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland what steps have been taken by the Lord Chancellor of Ireland to remove the Petty Sessions Court of Newbliss from the building in that town used as an Orange lodge; what steps the Lord Chancellor of Ireland has taken in regard to the magistrates who joined in an Orange demonstration in Newbliss on the 13th July instant, wearing orange sashes and other party decorations; and, has any correspondence passed between the Lord Chancellor and these magistrates; and, if so, will he have it laid upon the Table of the House?

On Tuesday last I stated that the attention of the Lord Chancellor had been drawn to the occupation on the 13th inst. of the justices' room at Newbliss by a number of members of Orange lodges. As to what action, if any, it may be proposed to take in this connection, the matter is obviously one requiring reasonable time for inquiry and consideration; but the Lord Chancellor informs me that he has taken no action, nor does he propose to take any, with regard to the participation of certain magistrates in the demonstration of the 13th inst. by wearing sashes and party decorations. I am not aware whether any correspondence has passed between the Lord Chancellor and these gentlemen; but, in any event, if such a correspondence should take place, I cannot promise to lay it on the Table of the House.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, whether he is prepared to recommend to His Excellency that the approaching celebration of the reign of Her Majesty the Queen as the longest in English history should be signalised by the granting of amnesty to all the prisoners confined in prisons in Ireland for agrarian and offences arising out of the agrarian troubles in that country during the last fifteen years?

This Question is one that should be addressed to the First Lord of the Treasury.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland,—(1) whether the Board of Poor Law Guardians of Belfast Union had any legal authority for admitting to the workhouse from the district asylum Eliza Jane Hanna, who did not belong to the union of Belfast, and by what authority did the auditor to the Local Government pass the charge of her maintenance on the rates of Belfast; (2) whether he will give the name of the pauper who was exchanged for Eliza Jane Hanna; (3) whether it was at the instance of the Local Government Board or the Board of Control that the system of exchanges between patients in the workhouse and asylum at Belfast was instituted; (4) whether the Local Government Board will make careful inquiry into the matter before it now gives its approval to this system which facilitates the removal of the afflicted poor from properly equipped asylums to places never intended for the reception of such cases; (5) whether he will state what number of such transferred patients were on the 18th instant in Belfast Workhouse, not belonging to Belfast Union but illegally kept there at the expense of the Belfast ratepayers; (6) and what is to be done as to the illegality of the admission and charge of maintenance in these cases?

Patients in asylums are transferred to the workhouses of the district from which they come under the provisions of the 11th Section of the Act of 1875, but in this case it would seem that instead of being sent to the Antrim Workhouse, to which she was properly chargeable, Hanna was transferred to the Belfast Workhouse in exchange for Margaret Dendinney, a dangerous lunatic requiring Asylum treatment. This transfer appears to have been the result of a private arrangement which existed between the Guardians and the Asylum Governors, but this practice was discontinued in March, 1894. It was neither at the instance of the Local Government Board nor of the Board of Control that this system was instituted. The Auditor states it would not be possible for him to verify the chargeability of every person admitted to the workhouse. This is a matter for the Guardians to decide at their next meeting subsequent to such admission. As to the fourth paragraph, communications, I understand, are being carried out between the Guardians and the Asylum Governors with reference to the interchange of inmates. There were twelve transferred patients in Belfast Workhouse on the 18th instant who were not properly chargeable to that Union, and arrangements are being made to re-tranfer them back to the Asylum as soon as possible.

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, whether the Foreign Office have yet received official information respecting the Convocation of the Cretan Assembly at Canea; has any information as to the truth of the statement that Abdullah Pasha, Military Governor, entered the Chamber, together with the Governor General, and officially took part in the proceedings; and, whether in view of the tension of feeling existing in the Assembly, the Ambassadors of the Powers will make adequate representation to the Porte concernimg these departures from established usage.

No Dispatches with regard to the opening of the Cretan Assembly have yet been received from Her Majesty's Consul, and his telegraphic reports do not mention that Abdullah Pasha entered the Chamber with the Governor General and officially took part in the proceedings.

asked whether though this Convocation had met on the 17th inst., no Dispatches had yet been received?

said that the hon. Member had asked as to the receipt of official information. But neither in telegrams nor in Dispatches was any mention made of the particular incident to which the hon. Member referred.

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, whether he has any information as to the truth of the statement that at the opening of the Convocation of Canea, the speech of the Vali was read in the Turkish tongue, though Creek is the language prescribed by the Halifa constitution; and, if so, whether, taking into account the vital importance of inducing both sections of the Assembly to work in harmony, the conduct of the Turkish authorities will form the subject of investigation by the representatives of the Powers?

Her Majesty's Consul in Crete has reported that the Assembly met on the 13th inst., and that contrary to precedent the opening-speech was delivered in Turkish, an innovation against which the Christian deputies remonstrated. The speech was subsequently read in Greek. The representatives of the Powers at Constantinople, when full information has reached them, will no doubt consider whether this matter should form the subject of investigation.

asked whether the Convocation had not met for the past week, and that the suspension was largely owing to the incidents mentioned in the two questions?

thought that the information of the hon. Member was incorrect. He believed that the Convocation was sitting at the present time.

There is no business being done. [Laughter]

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he can give the House any information concerning the unfortunate invasion of Apokorona by the Turkish troops and the fighting consequent upon this breach of the truce previously agreed upon; was this expedition undertaken with the sanction of Abdullah Pasha; and what representations, if any, have been made to the Porte by the Powers?

No detailed information with regard to the fighting in the neighbourhood of Kalyves has been received since the reply given to the hon. Member's Question on the 16th instant. Her Majesty's Consul in Crete has reported by telegraph that hostilities continued on the 16th and 17th, and that he had obtained private information that 50 Turkish soldiers had been killed or wounded and that the troops had returned to Kalyves. There was no information as to the losses of the Christians. In the present state of our information it is impossible to say whether the expedition was undertaken with the sanction of Abdullah Pasha, or whether the facts are such as to justify a representation to the Porte.

I beg to ask the President of the Local Government Board, if he can give the House any information as to the result of his endeavours to obtain from the neighbouring Companies a supply of water for the East London Water Company sufficient to enable it to carry out its obligations to its customers?

asked whether the right hon. Gentleman was aware that, while the East London Water Company published notices restricting the supply to six hours a day, they did not specify the hours, and last week, in various parts of the East End, water was turned off without any notice whatever. Would the right hon. Gentleman impress on the Company the importance of giving adequate notice as to the hours?

I have already done that, and I have put all the pressure I can upon them, and no doubt effect will be given to the representations. I have not yet received any information which enables me to state that a definite arrangement has been made, but I am doing everything that I can to bring about an agreement between the two companies in this matter.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty if he will explain the grounds upon which he declines to station a Naval Reserve vessel for two or three winter months at Kirkwall?

No public advantage would result from the action suggested in the hon. Member's question.

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign A flairs, if the inquiries into the case of Pastor Khamis, now imprisoned in Dizza, included any investigation into the nature of the treasonable correspondence carried on by him, or whether the allegations were accepted as correct on the authority of Turkish officials; whether he is aware that the only apparent grounds for the said allegations were letters from the aged pastor to his two sons in this country, asking for pecuniary aid towards his own sub sistence, he being nearly 80 years of age; and, whether these letters were construed by the Turkish officials into applications for funds for the purpose of insurrection?

The inquiries into the case of Pastor Khamis were made by Her Majesty's Vice Consul at Van, who satisfied himself that there were sufficient reasons for the institution of proceedings. As stated in answer to a previous question, besides correspondence a diary containing accusations against the Turkish Government was found in possession of the Pastor.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord lieutenant of Ireland, with reference to the generous reductions in rent alleged to have been given by Ulster landlords in flax-growing districts, whether such reductions were given in respect of last year's rent upon any, and, if so, how many-, of the large estates in the counties of Antrim and Down, where flax is largely grown?

The counties referred to by myself and by my right hon. Friend the Attorney General on the 20th February and 13th April last were Armagh, Cavan, Donegal, Londonderry, and Tyrone. I have no information as regards Antrim. The estates in Co. Down, particulars of which I had before me when the previous answers were given, were five in number, but I. have no reason to believe that the list was exhaustive.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury, what Bills will be taken on Wednesday and Thursday?

The hon. Member will see that much depends on what is done to-night and to-morrow as to what business will be taken on Wednesday and Thursday. I cannot give the hon. Member a definite answer.

asked whether the Secretary of State for the Colonies had received any request from Sir F. Carrington for military reinforcements, and if so, whether Her Majesty's Government proposed to send more troops to South Africa?

Up to the present I have not received any communication of that kind.

asked whether the right hon. Gentleman had received any information, in addition to what had appeared in the newspapers, with reference to the defeat of the British forces?

No; I do not believe that there has been any defeat of British forces. [Cheers.] The only information I have is in the following telegram:—

"Lieutenant-General Goodenough to Mr. Chamberlain. Received 11 p.m., July 26, 1896. July 26.—Following telegram received from Carrington:—(Begins) July 25.—Nicholson engaged enemy to-day in Inugo Gorge; failed to draw them out into open from position in kopjes. Cape boys stormed kopjes. Our casualties seven wounded; British South! Africa Company's Police Troopers W. E. Cheves, W. Bern, R. Heathfield, J. Bell, Corporal J. Porter, and two Capo boys. Nicholson's force expected back here to-night (ends). Christian names will be sent when received."

asked the First Lord of the Treasury when he intended to take the Colonial Vote?

replied that he could not make a definite announcement, but he would remind the hon. Member that the Vote had already been discussed on one day, if not on two.

asked whether the House had not been promised that an opportunity would be given for a discussion of the affairs of the Transvaal on the Colonial Vote, and whether the right hon. Gentleman would consent to put the Vote down first on one of the days still available for Supply?

did not think that he could do as the hon. Member desired. He would point out that when the Vote was last before the Committee it was competent to hon. Members to raise the South African Question.

They were our police.

The hon. Member, who was a director of the British East Africa Company, said that these tribes were his police, yet they had been told that a whole caravan had been destroyed by them. [Laughter.] The Under Secretary certainly told the House that that was not the fault of the Masai, but occurred through some little misunderstanding. [Laughter.] At any rate the line would have to pass through the country of these respectable and virtuous Masai, and according to the survey every station would have to be a fortress, and every man employed would have to be armed. The House ought at least to know what would be the cost of the railway. It was stated in 1891 that at a cost of £20,000 to this country a species of survey was made and the figure was put down at £2,240,000. The late Chancellor of the Exchequer and his colleagues reduced that to £1,157,000, which had now been increased to £3,000,000. His own impression was that it would cost more than £5,000,000. He was not surprised at all this, for he had never yet heard that the Foreign Office was gifted in the way of making railroads. If anyone was calculated to make a mess of it it would, he should think, be the Foreign Office. [" Hear, hear! "and laughter.] Tenders were put forward by the Foreign Office for rails and two estimates were sent in—one from Barrow and one from Cardiff. The former was 1s. 6d. per ton higher than the latter, but it was accepted because the Foreign Office thought they would have to send out sleepers which they thought could be obtained near Cardiff. But when they had entered into the con tract they were told that English sleepers would be of no use, because they were destroyed by insects. [Laughter.] They, therefore, cancelled the contract, paying compensation, and had to pay 1s. 6d. a ton more than they need for their rails. If this railway did cost £5,000,000, as he believed it would, that meant saddling £150,000 per annum on that country for 30 years. Most railways were expected to pay, but nobody expected this line to pay, and the estimates of traffic made out a large and permanent deficit which might be taken at another £30,000 per annum. If the country was to go into the business of building railways it would be infinitely better they should be built at home. ["Hear, hear!"] Agriculture in England did not want the Government to give facilities for materials to be brought down from the centre of Africa. What it wanted was facilities of communication in England, so as to be able to compete with the foreigner in this country. When we had put every part of England into communication with markets, then we might consider whether money should be wasted in this foolish way in Africa. ["Hear, hear!"] If the British taxpayer was to be called to upon spend money in Africa at all, the money would be better expended upon lines in South Africa instead of in tropical Africa. They were once told that it was necessary to make a railroad to Berber, and, in fact, a large sum of money was expended in the partial construction of the line. But where was that railway now? Why, after constructing a certain portion of it, it was given up as a bad job by the intelligent Government that was then in power, and all that remained of it now was a certain amount of iron, which was being used by the Soudanese in resisting our inroad into their country. ["Hear, hear!"and laughter.] In his opinion the whole system of Protectorates in, Africa was madness, but if we were to embark in mad schemes, let us at all events have some method in our madness. Before we set to work to construct railways, we ought to weigh the advantages and the disadvantages that would result from their being made. The scope of his Amendment was confined to the assertion that at the present moment we had not sufficient data on which to form a judgment of the advantages that would result from the construction of the line. Had hon. Members ever heard "of business men setting about the construction of a railroad in the vague way the Government had adopted, without having any estimate of the cost or any survey of the territory through which it was to pass? In his view his Amendment was a throrough business one. He should wish to ask whether the labour employed in the construction of the line was to be African labour.

Yes, if we can get it.

said that in that case we were going to avail ourselves of slave labour. We might make what conditions we chose in the arrangements with the masters, but the men employed to do the work would be slaves, who would be brought down to the coast by the Arab traders. During the years that the line would take to construct, the railway would be a perfect hotbed of slavery. In conclusion, he begged to move the Amendment of which he had given notice. ["Hear, hear!"]

said that in seconding the Amendment of the hon. Member for Northampton, he should wish to make two or three observations in connection with the general subject. On the last occasion when the question of the construction of this railway was before the House the hon. Member for Westminster had given as one of the reasons in favour of its construction that it would eventually run along the backbone of Africa, and would afford an unbroken communication between the north and south of that continent. He rather doubted whether all the hon. Members in that House had fully-considered the problem of the future of Africa and the bearing it would have upon this railway. The policy of British communication by railway from Egypt to British South Africa had gone by the board long ago, and it was one that we could no longer hope to see carried out. Such a policy was an intelligible and a real policy which was well worthy of examination and of thought, but it had now entirely passed out of the region of practical politics. It was true that we had entered into an arrangement with the Congo State to give us a right of way through their territories in consideration of our leasing other territories to them, but one-half of that agreement had been torn up by Germany and the other half by France. It might, of course, be said that in time of peace we should have no opportunity of acquiring the right of way in question, but that we might obtain it as the result of war. But were we to commence the construction of this line in the hope of being able to complete it after the termination of the next great war in which we might be engaged? He thought that in attempting to open a railway communication from the north to the south of Africa we were engaging in a wild goose chase, and therefore he should second the Amendment. ["Hear!"]

The hon. Member for Northampton commenced his remarks by a criticism of the circumstances under which we found ourselves in Uganda. Those remarks, it seemed to me, might have been more appropriately addressed to gentlemen sitting on his own side of the House. ["Hear, hear!"]

I addressed them to both sides.

Anyhow, they are not applicable to us. Our position in Uganda is a responsibility which we have inherited, and voluntarily inherited, from our predecessors, and we are now merely carrying to their logical conclusion the steps for the initiation of which they were responsible. ["Hear, hear!"] The hon. Member then indulged in those a priori objections, which he so frequently airs in this House, against any extension of British influence or expansion of the British race. That is one of the special idiosyncrasies of the hon. Member which is quite impervious to argument, and which makes him one of the most perverse, but, I am free to admit, one of the most charming of men. [Laughter.] The hon. Gentleman has got a most extraordinary conception of the character of the country through which the railway is to run. It is scarcely conceivable that he has ever read even the most elementary work about the nature of the country.

Yes, several.

Then the hon. Gentleman must have an imperfect recollection of what he has read. He described the country as a desert from the coast up to the interior, and then a jungle, and he asked how any European colonist could ever go or want to go into such a country. I remember a story that is told in history. When Julius Cæsar landed in this country his Roman patricians, who had never seen anything of this country before, said:—

"What an extremely undesirable place to live in The climate is not one that will suit us; there are parts of the country which are a desert, and other parts which are a jungle."

Where are they now?[Laughter.]

What are the facts in regard to Uganda? You have a coast fringe which is to some extent unhealthy; then you have a sterile belt some 200 miles across; and then you come to a high, well-watered, fertile country. So far from its being a part of the world in which British colonists could not live, I am informed that British colonists are already arriving there, and that they are starting plantations of coffee. So far from its being the jungle my hon. Friend described, would he be surprised to learn that there is there a cool air, that you wear there the clothing we wear here in the autumn, and that in the winter time you almost invariably require fires at night? The hon. Gentleman once again attributed the lamentable deaths of Sir Gerald Portal and his brother to the effects of the climate of Uganda. Sir Gerald Portal died from an illness contracted in this country, and his brother died from an illness contracted far beyond Uganda. Indeed, gentlemen who have recently been through the country assure me that it is a very healthy part of the world. The next point of the hon. Member was that there can never be any commerce there, and that nothing but ivory ever comes from that part of Africa. That view is not shared by people who have been there. They assure me that there is every chance of cotton, indiarubber, cereals, and coffee being cultivated there. But the question of the advantage of the railway does not solely turn upon the amount of produce likely to be exported from the country or the number of passengers who are likely to take tickets upon the line. The Chancellor of the Exchequer mentioned the other day a point that ought not to be lost sight of. Being in Uganda, as we are, we are compelled to be continually sending up stores and supplies over a considerable extent of country from the sea to the interior. At the present moment all those stores have to be carried on the backs of native porters, which costs us £40,000 a year, but when the railway is in working order it will only cost us £6,000, which will be a saving of £34,000 a year. At present there are only two small steel boats on the lakes—one on the Victoria lake and one on the Albert lake. An order for a steamer for the Victoria lake was very properly given by the late Government. This steamer could only be taken up in pieces and sections on the backs of men. The cost of the transport of that steamer to the lake will be, if it ever gets there, £12,000. Many of these pieces of machinery have been thrown away on the journey, and it is doubtful whether we can ever get the steamer complete. If the railway were made the transport would only cost £1,100. Therefore the saving on Government transport to the lakes will be very considerable when the railway is completed. I go on to the next point of the hon. Gentleman. He seems to have got, I will not say his facts, but his substitutes for facts, wrapt in a jumble of the most impossible and abnormal character. [Laughter.] He asked why the contracts for the rails had been given to a Cardiff firm and not to a Barrow firm. The reason why the contract was given to the Cardiff firm and not to the Barrow firm was that the tender of the Barrow company for shipment at Barrow was £4 13s. 6d. per ton; the tender for shipment at London was £5 Is.; the tender of the Cardiff company for shipment at Cardiff was £4 14s. 9d., and we were obliged to ship at Cardiff because we were getting our coals at Cardiff. His next contention was about the sleepers. He was surprised that we should be getting the sleepers from this country. He also talked about some infringement of a contract and of some compensation having to be paid. There is no truth at all in the latter statements; and as regards the sleepers, we were obliged to get them from England because there is no wood in the country of the character that is required for sleepers. We also required creosoted fir sleepers, because steel sleepers would have been liable to be corroded by the saline properties of the air near the coast. The next point my hon. Friend made, and perhaps it was the most extraordinary of all, was that this railway is actually going to turn the parts of Africa through which it is to run into hotbeds of slavery. Well, upon my word. [Laughter.] Up till now the argument which has commended the railway to hon. Gentlemen opposite has been that it would be one of the surest preventives of traffic in slaves, and that it would staunch the supply at its source. I can assure the hon. Gentleman anyway that there will be no slave labour employed on the line, and that his apprehensions in that respect are ill-founded. ["Hear, hear!"] I pass to the hon. Gentleman's next point. Throughout his speech he described this railway as if it were a happy-go-lucky affair which the Government had taken in hand, with no clear idea of where it was going to, what route was going to be adopted, and without the estimates and surveys that ought to have been made. What is the fact? In 1892 Major MacDonnell executed a survey of which a Report was laid before this House. It was a reconnaissance survey. It was executed with unusual care; it confirmed the independent studies made by engineers of the highest character beforehand; and it has been confirmed by the observations of those who have been there since. But it was not in the nature of things a detailed survey. I have sometimes wondered why in the interval between 1893 and 1895, when we started the railway, the late Government did not proceed to the execution of the detailed survey that was required before the railway could be commenced. My impression is that they were engaged in making up their minds whether they should remain in Uganda or scuttle out of it. ["Hear, hear!"] A valuable opportunity was then lost, and we are now carrying out a work which could have been more advantageously initiated by them. The process that is followed is this. A party goes ahead upon the trace of Major MacDonnell; then comes a party laying temporary lines, and then a working party laying the rails in their final position. Hon. Members can understand that in these circumstances a margin is wanted over and above the original estimate of Major MacDonnell. But the Government are not departing from Major MacDonnell's observations, nor are they deviating substantially from his figures. There is one other point in regard to which the Government was challenged, and that is as to the reasons for which we have adopted what is known as the Departmental system of construction. The hon. Member talked about this railway as being managed by the Foreign Office, whose officials he regarded as perfectly incapable of constructing such a work. That may be the case under ordinary circumstances, but this railway is being made by a Committee of experts sitting at the Foreign Office. I will give the House the names of the Committee. In the first place, the managing director is Mr. O'Callaghan, a man whose whole life has been spent in railway work in India. The consulting engineer is Sir Alexander Rendel, who is consulting engineer to the India Office, and the other members of the Committee are Sir Montagu Ommanney, Crown Agent for the Colonies, who is familiar with similar business, and Sir John Kirk, whose experience in that part of Africa is exceptionally great. This Committee sits at the Foreign Office, but can scarcely be legitimately described as a Foreign Office Committee. It embodies the most expert and authoritative opinion we can obtain, and to this Committee come week after week the accounts sent home by our local engineers on the spot. Whatever system of construction you apply, whether you build by departmental system or by contract, in the last resort a great deal must depend on the vigilance, the judgment, and the experience of the local engineers, and in the person of Mr. Whitehouse, who has great experience of railways in Africa, in India, and other tropical countries, we have a most excellent man. No firm of contractors and no company working this railway could possibly have applied to the supervision and control of the work done by their engineers on the spot the authoritative supervision which is applied by this expert Committee sitting at the Foreign Office. This method of construction is one with which we are very familiar. The hon. Member spoke of it as an experiment made for the first time. That is not so. The Departmental system in this case is only Foreign Office in so far as the expert Committee sit at the Foreign Office. This Departmental system is one under which the majority of our railways in India and at the Cape have been constructed, and under which we have made our railways in Trinidad, in Ceylon, in "Western Australia, and other Colonies. Experience shows us that it is on the whole a smoother and more economical method, and more particularly will it be so in this part of Africa, for the reason that in the first place, we have the advantage, working through Government agency, of the assistance of the Indian Government. For instance, we have got the assistance of 3,000 coolies to start the works with. The Indian Government would never have let those coolies go to work under a company or a contractor. We can get any amount of rolling stock from India; we have, too, the advantage of obtaining engineers and surveyors already trained in somewhat analogous work and with Indian experience. No firm of contractors or company could have commanded these advantages. ["Hear, hear!"] Hon. Members opposite are never tired of telling us that the construction of this railway is going to be threatened and retarded by the raids of the Masai tribes. But if troubles arise, or are likely to arise, surely you will be much more likely to compose them and to get on well with the local chiefs and tribesmen if you have your own officers in charge. ["Hear, hear!"] If you employ contractors what guarantee have you that they will engage men who are experienced in the ways of managing native tribes and in dealing with them dexterously? That reason, if there were no other, would be strong enough to impose on the Government the duty of constructing the railway. I hope I have fairly met the various points raised by the hon. Member, but I would ask the House, in giving their vote on the matter, to consider this—that we have taken over this country for better or for worse. We may have been right or we may have been wrong, but that question is not now before the House. It was decided after due consideration, and, I am sure, with a full sense of responsibility, by the late Government, and it has been accepted by the present Government. The whole policy of the British Protectorate in Uganda has been explained, criticised, vindicated, and accepted more than once by overwhelming votes of this House. ["Hear, hear!"] If that be the accepted policy of the country, the necessary corollary of the dominion we have established is that we should have railway communication between the interior and the seaboard. ["Hear, hear!"] That is the whole question in a nutshell. If you do not establish that communication with the Victoria Nyanza, Germany will do so. It is in pursuit of our responsibilities, and of the obligations we have inherited from our predecessors, that we are constructing this railway, and I believe the time will arrive when hon. Gentlemen who make these speeches now will look back with bewildered surprise on the utterances with which they have favoured the House, and will wonder how it was that they "raged so furiously together and imagined such vain things." [Laughter and cheers.]

I should not have thought it necessary to offer any observations to the House on this matter if the right hon. Gentleman had not made an attack on his predecessors. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Northampton that the right hon. Gentleman is one of the most amiable of men, but he is, I think, in the conduct of his department in this House, sometimes unnecessarily aggressive. [Laughter.] It was quite unnecessary, for the purpose of this Bill, that the right hon. Gentleman should have indulged either in an attack on the late Government or in those references to Germany which he is so constantly making, and which, coming from the Foreign Office, are singularly impolitic. ["Hear, hear!"]

I cannot allow that interpretation to pass. What I said was that one of the main grounds for the construction of a railway to Victoria Nyanza was that if we did not make it Germany would. ["Hear, hear!"] There was nothing aggressive in that. ["Hear, hear!"] I was speaking of what is the avowed intention of Germany. The Germans have a perfect right to make the railway through their territory; and our policy should he, and has been, to anticipate them. [Cheers.]

That is precisely the sort of remark that abroad causes great irritation, and which, I think, should be avoided. It was perfectly unnecessary, and has nothing to do with the argument. It is a remark in invidiam, and it introduces into the discussion a prejudice which is altogether unnecessary. I do not see why the right hon. Gentleman should have made any reference to Germany at all. ["Hear, hear!"] With regard to the late Government, the position in which they were placed was a very simple one. I have never altered my opinion that going to Uganda originally was an unwise step—["Hear, hear!"]—and I do not think the case has been improved by the right hon. Gentleman's illustration of the Roman invasion of this country. Julius Cæsar came here, but he went back almost as soon as he came. It was not a permanent occupation, and though the Romans came here and spent a great deal of money with the idea that they were going to get a good return by the pearls they obtained, they got really very little out of the country, and ultimately evacuated it, having got very little profit for the money they had laid out. That illustration does not help the Uganda railway. ["Hear, hear!" and laughter.] There is an illustration much nearer home in the Congo State. In that State there are means of communication that do not exist in respect to Uganda, and if you consult the parties who are interested in the profits and advantages derived from the Congo, I do not think they will be found to be very considerable. The right hon. Gentleman has thrown some new light on the climate of the Equator. It is apparently necessary there to have an extra great coat, and I suppose the coals being shipped at Cardiff are intended to warm the people at the Equator. [Laughter.] That, however, is an expensive operation under the circumstances. [Laughter.] The position of the late Government with regard to Uganda when they came into Office was, as I have said, a very simple one. When they came into Office they found that the East Africa Company was practically insolvent; they had endeavoured to make a settlement in Uganda, and had failed to do so, and had given notice that they were going to abandon the country. The policy of Lord Salisbury was to accept the evacuation of Uganda by the company, but he made no provision whatever for what was to succeed. That was the situation we found when we came into Office. We had to consider what was to be done. There were settlements in Uganda; there were British subjects there involved in the enterprises of the company; and no provision was made as to what was to be done on the retirement of the company; and, under the circumstances, the Government felt that they had no alternative but to make the provision in regard to Uganda that was made in 1892. The late Government agreed—and I believe the hon. Member for Northampton agreed—that a railway was a necessity, but we were of opinion that it must be what is called a light railway. Having regard to the condition of things in Uganda and to the uncertainty of what was to go there and what was to come from there, the notion of laying down a great and expensive line was never entertained by anyone in the world. The Committee of 1895, which was composed of the same gentlemen who reported in 1896, recommended the adoption of a reduced scheme, and that scheme was to cost exactly half the money which it is now proposed to expend. They recommended an expenditure of £1,755,000, but the present estimate is double that sum. I do not see that the House can be asked to assent to such a proposal. Why should they? I confess I am a little sceptical as to the accuracy of the estimate of the traffic on a line which is to have a train once a week upon it, and I am likely to remain so until the line has been at work some time. The right hon. Gentleman, with his usual confidence, assures us of the success of the line. I remember that a few months ago Mr. Rhodes told me he was absolutely certain there never could be any native difficulty, either in Matabeleland or Mashonaland. It only shows how very well-informed persons may be mistaken. I require some more solid assurance than that of the right hon. Gentleman that in the settlement of Africa no native difficulties are possible or even probable. I would advise the right hon. Gentleman not to be too confident in a matter of this kind. I think it was not wise to have doubled the estimated expenditure upon this line, and I confess that, as between the two reports signed by the same gentlemen, I prefer the report which was made to us and upon which we stated our intention of embarking upon a railway to Uganda. From our point of view the state of things was one which only justified what may be called a tentative railway—a light railway. Of course, if the passenger and goods traffic developed, you might lay down a heavier railway, make stronger bridges, and multiply your trains. I entirely agree with the hon. Member for Northampton in his depreciation of railway constructing and building by the Foreign Office. The Foreign Office endeavoured to administer Cyprus, and they made such a mess of the matter that we were obliged to take it out of their hands and transfer it to the Colonial Office. I would prefer that this work should be done by the Colonial Office, who have a staff with some knowledge of administration.

The staff the Colonial Office employ for such a purpose is the staff of Crown Agents, and the staff of Crown Agents is doing this very work.

Why don't you put this administrative work in the hands of the Colonial Office, which is an administrative Office? The Foreign Office is not an administrative Office, and whenever they have attempted matters of administration we have always found that they have not been successful. I must express my sympathy with the Chancellor of the Exchequer at being called upon to pay for a railway which is to be made by the Foreign Office and upon estimates upon which they can place no reliance. In the last report it is distinctly stated that:—

"it became evident to the Committee, on further examination, that detailed surveys might modify the conclusions of the able officers who had surveyed the route in 1892. The reports of the chief engineer have shown that the ascent from the coast to the tableland will be more expensive than was anticipated. Thence to the broken country of the Mau range the estimates are thought to be approximately correct, though the consideration of recent reports on the meteorological and climatic conditions raises doubts regarding the sufficiency of bridging allowed for. As regards the difficult country after the Mau range is reached, the Committee recognise that, in the absence of detailed surveys, there must be an element of uncertainty. They consider that, with the information at present at their disposal, it would be impossible to say that Major Macdonnell's estimate of initial cost may not be exceeded."

said the hon. Gentleman the Member for Northampton, as was his wont, could not make a speech on this subject without attacking the East Africa Company, and the right hon. Gentleman who had just spoken cast something of a reflection upon it. He could not, in justice to the gentlemen with whom he had worked on that company and who he had a ways maintained were animated by the highest motives, let the attack pass without saving a word in answer.

I made no reflection on the company. I spoke of their misfortunes.

I think he said they were practically bankrupt.

That is their misfortune. [Laughter.]

said he would proceed in a moment to show how that arose. The hon. Member for Northampton said the company went into Uganda, found it a bad speculation and retired, and he gathered from the right hon. Gentleman's remarks that he wished the House to infer that the company, having spent so much money in going into Uganda, were not able to remain there, but were bankrupt. He wished to remind the House that they did not go into the country as a speculation or with any object of their own to serve. They were forced to go there by the urgent solicitation of the king and people; they were urged to go by public opinion; they went with the sanction and encouragement of the Government of this country; and when they got there they secured a condition of peace and contentment among the rival factions. In going to Uganda, as throughout the whole career of the Company, they had undertaken national obligations as apart from commercial obligations; and when they asked the Government to recognise this fact and to give them some encouragement and support in their work, it refused. He would remind the right hon. Gentleman how his Government treated the Company with reference to this very railway. He proposed to buy them out for 10s. in the pound, and he knew that it was then determined to build this railway. He knew that the building of the railway would have enabled them to get unlimited capital, but he kept the intention secret, and, having completed the purchase on terms which lost the Company half its capital, he came down the next day and announced the intention of building the railway. It seemed to him that this showed the commercial sharpness, added to the political morality, of an old furniture dealer. [Laughter.] With regard to the remarks of the Member for the Forest of Dean, he always listened to the right hon. Baronet with interest, knowing the great knowledge and industry which he brought to bear on these subjects. On this occasion he observed one omission in his speech, his usual avowal of his own Imperialism. He had never heard the right hon. Baronet speak on subjects of this kind without laying claim to being something of an Imperialist, and he had never known an Imperial project brought before this House without the right hon. Baronet opposing it. ["Hear, hear!"] The right hon. Baronet was like the signpost to which Charles Dickens was compared, which pointed out to others the way to go, and never went it. [Laughter.] The right hon. Baronet shrinks from his own ideal. [Sir C. DILKE: "The increase of the Navy."] He was not going into that. The right hon. Baronet confined his speech to an attack on a forecast which he (the speaker) had put forward in reference to the railway on a former occasion, of a backbone of communication running from north to south through Africa, and this Uganda railway forming a link between the centre of that backbone and the finest harbour on the east coast. He had never said that the line of communication must necessarily be a line of railway—it might be a mixed water and rail communication—or that it must be altogether in the hands of this country. England held a predominant position in South Africa, and when England had purchased Delagoa Bay, as they would purchase it—[a laugh]—and when England was permanently established in Egypt—[a laugh]—he saw the right hon. Gentleman smile, but he had never been able to foresee the time when the withdrawal of England from Egypt would not mean the subsidence of that country back into the condition from which the English occupation had raised her. ["Hear, hear!"]

Order, order! The hon. Member cannot go into a discussion on the Egyptian question.

bowed to the ruling of Mr. Speaker. He was led off by the smile of the right hon. Gentleman. [A laugh.]

What I smiled at was the appropriation of Delagoa Bay.

I did not observe the smile on the right hon. gentleman's countenance. If I had, I should have dwelt on it. [Laughter.] My gaze was fascinated by the smile on the face of the right hon. Gentleman next to him (Mr. J. Morley). [Laughter.] With England holding this predominant position in the north and in the south, it was most inevitable that a line of communication should be established between the two extremes. With regard to the strip of territory referred to by the right hon. Baronet, he very much regretted that the Government did not follow up and confirm the foresight which the Company had shown in the making of their treaty with the Congo State with regard to this intervening territory. It was a great loss to have given it up, but he did not for a moment believe that this intervening strip would prevent the line of communication from being eventually completed. It was absurd to suppose that a few miles of territory, far from the coast, at the farthest end of the German possessions, could stand in the way of a great work of civilisation. Would the right hon. Baronet himself maintain that, supposing such a line was completed from the south to one side of that small strip, and from the north to the other side of it, anything could stand in the way of the line being completed across it? The carrying out of this railway would be not only an enormous benefit to the country and a relief to the people from the horrors of slavery, but it was entirely in consonance with the best traditions of English policy. ["Hear, hear!"]

said they were told that if they did not make this railway Germany would, but he did not believe that Germany paid the slightest attention. There was a great uncertainty as to the country, and there was a complete absence of information as to the line the railway would take. There was the question of the bridges, and whether they would be able to withstand the great floods. Ultimately, no doubt, the cost would be six millions rather than three millions. The right hon. Gentleman held out a prospect of tremendous cultivation, but Sir Gerald Portal had said that there was an entire absence of any natural product except ivory, and possibly coffee, in the country. The strategical advantage of a country 800 or 700 miles from the sea was, he thought, quite worthless; it would be 1,200 or 1,400 miles to Khartoum, and then they would have to get to Alexandria. He should have thought it would have been better to disembark their troops at Suakim, or some other central place. There was also the greatest uncertainty as to the revenue. The higher lands over which it was proposed to take the railway were 8,000 feet above the sea, and that part of the route had not been surveyed. He did not say that they were bound to go on with this railway now, although it might be that the Government found themselves tied to what was called a continuity of policy, but he was convinced that the railway would prove enormously difficult to make, and that they would never get a penny out of it.