House Of Commons
Thursday, 3rd August 1899.
Private Bill Business
Bexhill And Rotherfield Railway Bill
Lords Amendment considered, and agreed to.
London And South-Western Railway Bill Lords
Manchester Corporation Tramways Bill Lords
Paisley And Barrhead District Railway Bill Lords
Read the third time, and passed, with an Amendment.
Rochdale Canal Bill Lords
Read the third time, and passed, with an Amendment.
Wolverhampton Corporation Bill Lords
Workington Corporation Bill Lords
Read the third time, and passed, with Amendments.
Birmingham, North Warwickshire, And Stratford-Upon-Avon Railway Bill Lords
As amended, considered:
Amendments made.
Ordered, that Standing Orders 223 and 243 be suspended, and that the Bill be now read the third time.—( Dr. Farquharson.)
Bill read the third time accordingly, and passed with Amendments.
Southport And Lytham Tramroad Bill Lords
Ordered, that, in the case of the South-port and Lytham Tramroad Bill [Lords], as amended, Standing Orders 84, 214, 215, and 239 be suspended, and that the Bill be now taken into consideration provided amended prints shall have been previously deposited.—( Dr. Farquharson.)
Bill considered accordingly.
Ordered, that Standing Orders 223 and 243 be suspended, and that the Bill be now read the third time.—( Dr. Farquharson.)
Bill read the third time accordingly, and passed.
Private Bllls
Ordered, that Standing Orders 220 and 246 relating to Private Bills be suspended for the remainder of the session.
That, as regards Private Bills already returned by the House of Lords with Amendments, such Amendments be now considered.
That, as regards Private Bills to be returned by the House of Lords with Amendments, such Amendments to be considered forthwith.
That, when it is intended to propose any Amendments thereto, a copy of such Amendments shall be deposited in the Private Bill Office, and notice given on the day on which the Bill shall have been returned from the Lords.—( The Chairman of Ways and Means.)
Belfast Corporation Bill
City And Brixton Railway Bill
Gateshead And District Tramways Bill
LONDON, WALTHAMSTOW, AND EPPING FOREST RAILWAY BILL.
WEST METROPOLITAN RAILWAY BILL.
Lords Amendments considered accordingly, and agreed to.
Education Department Provisional Order Confirmation (London) Bill Lords
As amended, further considered.
*
In proposing the Amendment which stands in my name, I wish to explain that the object I have in view is to extend the provision which the Home Secretary is inserting in this Order to all the previous Orders confirmed by Parliament. I fully admit that the Home Secretary has given his most sympathetic consideration to the mischief which has been brought to his notice on account of the evasion by the London School Board of its statutory obligations with regard to the re-housing of the occupants of working class dwellings displaced by the acquisition of School Board sites. In my opinion the Home Secretary's provision does not go far enough. There were many such evasions before the year 1895—the limit chosen by the right hon. Gentleman—and it would be an act of gross injustice not to go back before that date. The Home Secretary and the School Board have admitted that the evasions have taken place, and I do not see why, in trying to remedy a mischief which has been deliberately and designedly committed, we should stop short of the full measure of justice which ought to be applied. The question of the re-housing of the working class population is one felt severely in the East End of London among the poorer population, for whose special benefit this provision was made by Parliament; yet the School Board, which is supposed in one department of life to serve the best interests of these classes, has deliberately and of set purpose, and not in ignorance, evaded its plain duty. I trust the Home Secretary will look on my Amendment as the logical outcome of the provision he has inserted in this Order, and that by accepting it he will apply a remedy to what is felt to be a crying evil in the East End of London.
Amendment proposed—
"In page 4, in Amendment inserted in Committee, in line 2, after the word 'Orders,' to insert the word 'previously.' "—(Sir Mancherjee Bhownaggree.)
Question proposed, "That the word 'previously' be there inserted."
There is no doubt that the evil to which the hon. Member refers does exist, and the intention of Parliament has been evaded. The duty of providing fresh dwellings when more than twenty houses have been acquired in any one year for the erection of a School Board has been evaded by taking less than twenty in a year. In order to meet that evasion, the Home Secretary has proposed an Amendment extending the obligation to replace working-class dwellings to a period of five years; so that if more than twenty houses are taken in five years the replacement is obligatory. The hon. Member wishes to carry it still further, and to make it practically perpetual; but the opinion of the Secretary of State is, that it is not necessary to go beyond the period of five years, for persons displaced earlier than that would probably be lost in the crowd by that time. In fact, it would be carrying the remedy to an unreasonable extent. I hope my hon. friend will be satisfied with the Amendment introduced into this Order—an Amendment which I understand will be introduced henceforth into every Bill of this nature.
The hon. Member who moved this Amendment seemed to think there will be no difficulty experienced by the School Board in giving effect to it. Upon that I join issue with him. He desires its operation should extend back for twenty-five years, and that would involve the London School Board instituting a search for many thousands of people amongst a population of an admittedly migratory character. Moreover, it would involve an expenditure of many thousands of pounds, and bearing in mind how heavy the London School Board rate already is, and remembering also, as a member of the board, that the projects and plans we have for the future do not afford much prospect of any early reduction, I would suggest to the hon. Member that, in trying to do an act of kindness and justice, he may at the same time be inflicting a severe punishment in another direction, by making an increased rate necessary. I think the Amendment of the Home Secretary goes quite far enough. I, for one, view with alarm any prospect of the School Board setting itself to work as a housing authority. The London County Council have done something in that direction, but their work has been marred by the high rents which they have been obliged to charge for the buildings they have erected. The School Board would have to face a like difficulty, and there would be a temptation to them to cramp the play-grounds, so as to reduce their obligations in the matter of re-housing. This evasion of the law has not been confined to the present School Board; it is a, legacy from many previous boards, and I trust the hon. Member will be satisfied with the punishment meted out to us by the Home Secretary.
If the Home Secretary had seen his way to make this provision absolutely retrospective, I, for one, would have been very glad, as the more accommodation we can get for the dispossessed poor the better. But I think the right hon. Gentleman has gone as far as we could expect, and Ministers with large majorities at their backs will be disposed to refuse all concessions if they find that when they offer reasonable ones they are met in a hostile spirit.
I agree with the last speaker that my hon. friend would be well advised not to press this Amendment, in view of the sympathetic treatment the Government have given to the matter. At the same, time, I hold that he has done well in calling public attention to the subject. It is almost incredible that a public body in the position of the London School Board should for a number of years continue to evade Acts of Parliament for the benefit of the working classes. We have to face the fact that this public body has broken the law, and is now putting forward the astonishing defence that it would cost them a great deal of money to undo the wrong. So much the worse for them and for the ratepayers, who have been so foolish as to entrust their educational interests to a body of that kind. The board has been fanatically set upon the erection of school after school, wholly regardless of the interests of the working classes and of voluntary schools; and, now they are asked to pay the bill, they complain that the demand is unreasonable. I think my hon. friend has done well to bring the matter before the House, and I hope the people of London, when the next School Board election comes round, will take effectual measures to prevent a recurrence of such conduct.
*
After what has been said on behalf of the Government, and being satisfied with the opportunity I have had of calling attention to the great mischief which has occurred in the past, so as to prevent its recurrence in the future, I beg leave to withdraw my Amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Bill to be read the third time To-morrow.
London Water (Welsh Reservoirs And Works) Bill
Order [13th March] that the London Water (Welsh Reservoirs and Works) Bill be read a second time read, and discharged:—Bill withdrawn.— [Dr. Farquharson.)
Petitions
Poor Law Amendment (Scotland) Act, 1845
Petitions for alteration of Law; from Castleton; Fodderty; and, Kennethmont; to lie upon the Table.
Returns, Reports, &C
Police (Metropolis)
Copy presented.—of Report of the Commissioners of Police for the Metropolis for 1898 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
Reformatory And Industrial Schools (Great Britain)
Copy presented,—of Forty-second Report of the Inspector for 1898 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
Inebriates Acts, 1879 And 1888
Copy presented,—of Report of Nineteenth Report of the Inspector of Retreats, for the year 1898 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
Prisons (England And Wales)
Copy presented,—of Report of the Commissioners of Prisons and the Directors of Convict Prisons for the year ended 31st March 1899 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
Revenue And Expenditure (England, Scotland And Ireland)
Return presented,—relative thereto [ordered 18th April; Mr. Lough]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. (No. 317.)
Imperial Revenue (Collection And Expenditure) (Great Britain And Ireland)
Return presented,—relative thereto [ordered 18th April; Mr. Lough]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. (No. 318.)
Post Office Telegraphs (Revenue And Expenditure)
Return presented,—relative thereto [ordered 25th July; Mr. Hanbury]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. (No. 319.)
Post Office (Revenue And Expenditure)
Return presented,—relative thereto [ordered 25th July; Mr. Hanbury]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. (No. 320.)
Taxes And Imposts
Return presented,—relative thereto [ordered 20th April; Mr. Goddard]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. (No. 321.)
Vagrant Children Relieved
Return presented,—relative thereto [ordered 16th March; Mr. Maddison]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. (No. 322.)
London (Equalisation Of Rates) Act, 1894 (Accounts Under Section 1 (7) Of The Act)
Return presented,—relative thereto [ordered 21st July; Mr. T. W. Russell]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed.[No. 323.]
County Treasurers'fee Fund (Ireland)
Account presented,—for the year ended 25th March 1899 [by Act];to lie upon the Table.
Army (Medical Department)
Copy presented,—of Report for the year 1898, Volume XL. [by Command]; to lie upon, the Table.
Colonial Reports (Annual)
Copy presented,—of Report No. 264 (Gambia, Annual Report for 1898) [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
Colonial Reports (Annual)
Copy presented,—of Report No. 265 (St. Helena, Annual Report for 1898) [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
Papers Laid Upon The Table By The Clerk Of The House
County Courts (Plaints And Sittings)
Address for "Returns from every County Court in England and Wales of the total number of Plaints, etc., entered in each Court from the 1st day of January to the 31st day of December, 1898, both days inclusive, distinguishing those not exceeding £20, those above £20 and not exceeding £50, and those by agreement over £50."
"And of the Sittings of the County Courts in England and Wales holden before the Judges of such Courts in the year 1898 (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 385, of Session 1898)."—( Mr. Jesse Collings.)
Tramways (Street And Road)
Return ordered,—"of Street and Road Tramways authorised by Parliament, showing the amount of Capital authorised, paid up, and expended; the length of Tramway authorised, and the length open for the public conveyance of passengers, down to the 30th day of June, 1899; the gross Receipts, working Expenditure, and net Receipts; the number of Passengers conveyed and the number of miles run by Cars during the year ending the 30th day of June, 1899; together with the number of Horses, Engines, and Cars at that date (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 355, of Session 1898."—( Mr. Ritchie.)
Return presented accordingly; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 327.]
Questions
Training Ship For Harwich Harbour
:I beg to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty if he can now state whether a training ship for boys of the Royal Navy is to be stationed in Harwich Harbour.
A plan to that effect is taking shape.
Discharges From The Royal Marines
I beg to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty whether his attention has been called to a statement of Mrs. Farquhar, of 83, Dalmarnock Road, Glasgow, to the effect that in May last, after correspondence with the Admiralty as to the steps to be taken to secure the discharge of her husband, John Farquhar, who on 1st May had enlisted in the Marines and was serving on board H.M.S. "Northumberland," she sent £10 to the master-at-arms of that vessel, receipt of which was duly acknowledged, to procure his discharge; whether she has sent to the Admiralty documents in proof of her statement, but that, on the excuse that the £10 has been lost, her husband still remains undischarged; and whether he will take steps to have the case promptly settled, either by discharging Farquhar or returning the £10, for which his wife, a very poor woman, having had to borrow, it, is responsible.
The first intimation received at the Admiralty with regard to the matter referred to in the question was by a letter received from Mrs. Farquhar on July 20th. A report as to the circumstances, which was at once called for from H.M.S. "Northumberland," was received yesterday, August 2nd. It appears that the delay, as set out in the question, has been occasioned by the purchase money having been sent in Scotch notes, which were refused by the Accountant Officer of the ship and were subsequently handed to Farquhar, the husband whose discharge his wife was seeking. He states that he himself lost them while vainly endeavouring to get them changed into gold at the local banks. Under the special circumstances, though the necessary money has not been received by the Government, Farquhar's discharge will be sanctioned without any further payment.
Army Ordnance Department, Pimlico
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether, seeing that it is contemplated that no Civil Servants of higher rank than Second Division clerks are to be employed in the Army Ordnance Department, Pimlico, it is to be understood that the superior duties now performed by the storekeeper and the staff officers, and the regulations and estimates work until recently in the hands of the principal clerk, will eventually be discharged by Ordnance officers; and, if not, by whom they will be discharged; whether steps are being, taken to have the future Civil establishment in the Store and Factory fixed at the same time as the accounts are taken over by the Accountant-General; and by what date the whole re-organisation of the Clothing Department will be at length completed and the new clerical establishments settled.
*
The matter is still under consideration.
War Office Administration
On behalf of the hon. Member for West Belfast I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether the attention of the Secretary of State has been called to the statement made in evidence before the War Office Re-Organisation Committee by the Lieutenant-General Commanding at Aldershot to the effect that he thought, and he believed he had sufficiently verified his opinion, that the whole system of reports, regulations, and warrants under which the Army now serves has grown up entirely for the benefit of the War Office clerks, and to find work for the War Office, rather than to provide control over the Army; whether during a period of ten years the officer referred to held a post of Quarter-master-General and Adjutant-General at the War Office, and whether during that period he made any official report respecting the office over which he presided to the same effect as the statement above referred to; and whether the facts are as stated by Sir Redvers Buller; and, if so, whether any, and what, steps have been taken to put an end to such a state of things.
The Committee on Decentralisation reported to the Secretary of State, and he laid its Report, with the evidence, before Parliament. The sentence quoted formed part only of one reply in the course of a long examination; and an accurate knowledge of Sir Redvers Buller's views can best be gathered by reading the whole of his evidence. In reply to the second paragraph, Sir Redvers Buller did not make any report with respect to the branches of the War Office over which he presided; his views on the clerical staff of the whole office were before the Secretary of State in 1895, when certain changes were under consideration. In reply to the third paragraph, the question is one of opinion and not of fact.
Recruits' Ages
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether he will state the extent to which the experiment to establish a system of verification of the ages of recruits for the Army was carried, and what means were employed; whether the general qualifications as to character, education, and re- spectability of the recruits whose ages could not be verified could compare favourably with those of the recruits who had no difficulty in producing satisfactory proof of age; and whether the immediate discharge from the Army can always be procured of boys proved to be under seventeen years who are prompted thoughtlessly by the allurements of the recruiting agency to give false statements as to their ages, such discharge from the Army taking place without punishment being awarded them from either a civil or military court.
Search was made in the registers at Somerset House, in Edinburgh, and in Dublin for the certificates concerning 18,000 recruits under the age of twenty according to the places of birth and dates given on attestation. Although a liberal margin was allowed for errors in date, 45 percent. could not be traced at all, and 15 percent. were very doubtful. The labour was very great and the result was not considered to be of sufficient value to justify its continuance. There is no record of the comparative characters of the men identified and those not identified. A boy proved to be under seventeen years of age is immediately discharged; but under Sections 33 and 99 of the Army Act he is liable to punishment for having made a false statement of age on attestation.
Did this inquiry take place lately?
Yes.
Indian Government Contracts—Iron Manufacture
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India if it is the practice of the Indian Government to treat Indian manufacturers of iron and of other products purchased by the Government on equal terms with British or Continental manufacturers as ordered by paragraph 28, of Resolution 185, January, 1883.
In November, 1895, I instructed the Government of India to be careful to avoid giving any preference to either English or Indian goods, as such, and so far as I am aware they have acted, and are acting, accordingly.
Ecclesiastical Titles In India
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether, having regard to the importance of Her Majesty's Indian Empire, and to the fact that certain bishops of the Church of England in the colonies have recently adopted and assumed the style of Archbishop, Her Majesty's Government will take steps to amend the statutes affecting the Church of England in the East Indies, so as really to confer on the Bishop of Calcutta, as statutory Metropolitan Bishop in India, the style and precedence of an Archbishop.
I am well aware of the nature of the position of the Bishop of Calcutta as Metropolitan of India, and the suggestion contained in the hon. Member's question is not new to me. But there are many important considerations involved, and it is impossible for me at present to give any undertaking on the subject.
Major Parsons, 7Th Bengal Cavalry
On behalf of the hon. Member for South Donegal, I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether his attention has been drawn to the case of Major (then Lieutenant) J. H. Parsons, 7th Bengal Cavalry, who was appointed in July, 1884, to the Burma Commission as Supernumerary Assistant Commissioner, but was obliged to go home to England on sick leave in 1886; whether he is aware that in 1890 Major Parsons was offered an opportunity of returning to his post in Burma, which he declined to accept, whereupon his name disappeared from the list of Commissioners, but that in April, 1897, Major Parsons was replaced in the Burma Commission after an absence of eleven and a-half years, and in July, 1898, was appointed to the post of Deputy Commissioner, third grade, superseding all the officers in the fourth grade, who had given a continuous service to the Commission; whether, seeing that the Secretary of State for India cancelled the orders of the Local Government of Burma, and reduced Major Parsons to the post of a Deputy Commissioner of the fourth grade, will he explain on what grounds the Burma Government has appointed that officer to officiate as Deputy Commissioner, first grade; and what steps will be taken to enforce the orders of the Secretary of State for India, granting redress to the officers who had been injured by being superseded in their promotion in favour of Major Parsons.
I have to refer the hon. Member to the answer which I gave on the 1st instant to the hon. Member for the Basingstoke Division, and which, I think, covers all the points in this question. As I then stated, the orders given by me appear to have been duly carried out, and the recent promotions of Major Parsons have not interfered and will not interfere with those of other members of the Burma Commission.
Guaranteed Railways In India
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether he could state the dates at which, within the next two years, notice should be given to the several guaranteed or subsidised Indian railways for the termination or revision of their existing contracts or agreements with the Government of India or Secretary of State; and whether due care would be taken in any revision or renewal of these agreements so to limit the new terms as to safeguard the interests of the Government and taxpayers of India.
Within the next two years notice of termination of contract may be given to one guaranteed Indian railway company, viz., the Great Indian Peninsula Railway Company (on any day within six months after the 17th of August, 1899). The contract with the Rohilkund and Kumaon Railway Company for the completion and working of the Lucknow-Bareilly State Railway may be terminated on the 31st of December, 1900, or on the 31st of December in any subsequent year, by giving not less than twelve months' previous notice. In any revision of contracts with Indian railway companies the interests of the Government and taxpayers of India will be duly safeguarded.
The Transvaal Petitions
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether, in view of the fact that, at the Bloemfontein Conference, President Kruger strongly disputed the genuineness of the petition from the Transvaal submitted to Her Majesty, and asserted that over 23,000 Uitlanders had sent him a counter petition, the proposed Joint Committee will be instructed to inquire to what extent the franchise is really desired by British Uitlanders, and how many would be willing to forfeit their British nationality in order to obtain it, and also to inquire whether the Uitlander movement in the Transvaal is, as alleged, to any and what extent due to instigation of capitalists and their agents.
The inquiry will be confined to the details of the reforms required for giving immediate substantial representation to the Uitlanders. Full information is given as to the genuineness of the petition to the Queen on pages 184 and 224 of the Blue Book C. 9,345, and pages 46 and 60 and following pages of the Blue Book C. 9,404, as to the character of the counter petition on page 237 of C. 9,345 and page 22 of C. 9,404, and as to the nature of the Uitlander movement on pages 135, 163, and 207 of C. 9,345.
British New Guinea Ordinances
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether the monetary claims arising out of the disallowance of the Ordinance conferring certain concessions upon the British New Guinea Syndicate have yet been adjusted; and, if so, whether he can state the nature of the arrangement that has been arrived at.
The negotiations respecting the claims of the British New Guinea Syndicate have been carried on between the Syndicate and Governments of the three Colonies concerned through their Agents-Generals. I have not been informed that a settlement has been arrived at.
Contempt Of Court In The West Indies
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether, seeing that the Royal assent was given to The Barba does Contempt of Court Act, 1891, under which all cases of contempt, except in facie curiœ, must be tried by a jury and a judge other than the one who may be aggrieved; and that, on the 19th May, 1898, Her Majesty, by Order in Council, assented to a similar measure passed in the Leeward Islands, he would instruct the Governors of the Windward Islands and the adjoining Crown Colonies under the control of the Colonial Office to pass a law on the same lines, so as to make legislation on the subject uniform in the West Indies.
I recognise the convenience of uniformity of legislation on the subject in the West Indian Colonies, and I will bring the matter under the consideration of the Governors of the Colonies referred to.
Sierra Leone
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether his attention has been specially drawn to page 121 of the Blue Book on Sierra Leone, just issued, from which it appears that in one of the recent trials, viz., Regina v. Caulker, three witnesses swore to the prisoner having killed a Mr. Roberts with his own hand, whereas it appeared, on looking up another murder case which had been held by the Deputy Judge, that Roberts was killed by an entirely different person, and so the prisoner was fortunately acquitted. And, whether, having regard to the kind of evidence produced at these trials, he will cause inquiry to be made into the circumstances of the prisoners who were convicted, with a view to the extension to them in suitable cases of the clemency of the Crown.
Yes, Sir, my attention was called to the statement which appears on page 121 of the Blue Book to which the hon. Member's question refers. The evidence of natives requires very careful sifting, and the judge who tried the persons charged with murder, and who was especially selected for the purpose, exercised very great care. I see no reason to direct any general inquiry into the cases which have been tried, but if in any special case circumstances should be found to afford grounds for further inquiry, it will, of course, be made.
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether, having regard to the fact that Sir F. Cardew, Governor of Sierra Leone, brought a very serious impeachment against the newspaper press and the community of that colony—viz., that of inciting the natives of the Protectorate to resist payment of the hut tax, and that Her Majesty's Special Commissioner, Sir David Chalmers, has reported that Sir F. Cardew has entirely failed to establish this charge against the people of the colony which he administers, will he consider the advisability of transferring Sir F. Cardew to some other sphere of employment.
The question of the effect of certain actions of individuals and of articles in the local press is a matter of opinion on which Sir D. Chalmers and Sir F. Cardew are not in full agreement; but even if Sir F. Cardew has, as I hope is the case, attached undue importance to these matters, it is not, in my opinion, a reason for putting a slight on a distinguished and zealous officer who has administered the government of the colony in most difficult and trying circumstances.
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether Sir David Chalmers recommended that the Insurgents' Temporary Detention Ordinance, 1898 (Sierra Leone), should be immediately repealed; and whether Commander Sir F. Cardew has admitted that this Ordinance could safely be repealed; and, if so, will he state why this course has not been taken.
The facts are as stated. No action has been taken under the Ordinance for some time past, and instructions will now be given for its repeal.
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether Bai Bureh has been deported to Accra; and, having regard to the fact that Commander Sir F. Cardew reported that Bai Bureh had fought us squarely and well, and recommended that he should be allowed to return to his people, will he state upon what grounds this recommendation has not been adopted.
I have not lost sight of the recommendation referred to; but, upon consulting the local authorities and Sir F. Cardew as to the date at which Bai Bureh should be sent back, I came reluctantly to the conclusion that it would not be advisable to allow him to return at present, and that in the meantime it would be better for Bai Bureh that he should be removed to Accra, where more liberty could be given him than in Freetown.
British Commercial Attachés Abroad
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if any decision has been arrived at by Her Majesty's Government with respect to the increase in the number of British Commercial Attachés abroad.
*
Her Majesty's Government, with a view to furthering British trading interests, have decided to appoint commercial agents in certain countries. Appointments will shortly be made in Russia, Switzerland, China and America. These agents will not have diplomatic rank, but will visit various commercial centres, and will be available for special consultation by British firms in respect of various, industries by payment of a moderate fee, such fees going to the Exchequer and not to the commercial agent, who will be paid by salary. The appointments will be made experimentally for two or three years.
Foreign Service Messengers
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the Secretary of State is acting on the recommendations, in respect to Foreign Service messengers, contained in paragraph 20 of the final Report of the Ridley Commission, other than the recommendations as to salary and age which he has accepted.
*
The Secretary of State in filling up the appointment of Queen's Messenger is ready as a general rule to give the preference to gentlemen, who have served in the Army or Navy, though not necessarily on half-pay or in receipt of pension, but he does not hold that the recommendations of the Commission deprive him of the power of appointing suitable civilians. The Secretary of State will also take care that the candidates selected possess a colloquial knowledge of French, are able to ride, to keep simple accounts, and are pronounced medically fit. The office of Queen's Messenger is included in Schedule B of the Order in Council of June 4th, 1870, and is therefore not one for which an examination is obligatory.
Red Sea Lights
I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade when it may be expected that the lighthouses which the Porte is said to have agreed to construct in the southern portion of the Red Sea will be commenced, and if any arrangement has been entered into or is pending for authorising the collection of dues in respect of such lights; and whether the annual surplus of the Egyptian lights revenue, amounting to £45,000, is considered available for this purpose, or if such surplus can only be applied to the reduction of dues on Egyptian lights in conformity with the Convention between Great Britain and Egypt; in the latter case when a reduction may be looked for.
*
As regards the first paragraph of this question there is nothing at present to be added to the answer given to the question of the right hon. Member for the North-east Division of Manchester on the 27th of July ultimo. The sum available for the construction of the proposed lighthouses in the Red Sea is the accumulated amount, about £80,000 sterling, to which reference was made in reply to my hon. Friend's question of July 29th. I would, however, remind him that the dues were reduced by 30 per cent, on September 1st, 1897, and the revenue derived from them has fallen from £E110,000 in 1896 to £E87,000 in 1898. The engagement on the part of the Egyptian Government to reduce the Egyptian light dues by £E40,000, to which the hon. Member alludes, is contingent on the application of the customs tariff to all the Powers. This contingency has not yet arisen.
British Claims For Losses In Constantinople
On behalf of the hon. Member for South Donegal, I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, whether Her Majesty's Government have received a petition from the British merchants in Constantinople, dated 9th May, 1898, praying for an early settlement of their claims against the Turkish Government for losses sustained by them in August, 1896, during the pillage of Pera, Galata, Stamboul, and Hasskein by a mob; whether Her Majesty's Ambassador to the Sublime Porte has reported that the mob in question was organised by and worked under the orders of Turkish officials whose names are known to the Ambassador; whether the Secretary of State is aware that two British firms at Constantinople have been compelled to suspend payment in consequence of the magnitude of their losses on that occasion, and that other firms are in financial difficulties from the same cause; and whether, seeing that no attention has been paid by the Ottoman Government to the note verbale, addressed to it by Sir Philip Currie on 24th March, 1898, Her Majesty's Government will now consider the advisability of liquidating the claims of the petitioners and recovering the sum paid from the Ottoman Government from the profits which will accrue by the conversion of the Cyprus Tribute into Two and a-half Per Cent. Consolidated Stock.
*
The petition has been received. Her Majesty's Ambassador has not made the Report stated, but Her Majesty's Government consider that there are grounds for holding the Turkish Government liable to make compensation in certain cases. Her Majesty's Government are aware that the losses suffered on the occasion have caused serious embarrassment to several of the sufferers. They will continue to press the claim, but no arrangement has yet been made of the nature suggested in regard to the surplus revenue of Cyprus, and, consequently, no assurance can be given on the subject.
Her Majesty's Consul At Smyrna
On behalf of the hon. Member for South Donegal, I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the attention of the Secretary of State has been called to the unsatisfactory relations which for some time have existed between Mr. H. C. Cumber batch, Her Majesty's Consul at Smyrna, and the members of the British community in that city; whether he is aware that Mr. Cumber batch is Chairman of the Committee of the Seamen's Hospital, which has made grave charges against the personal character of the British medical officer of that city; can he state whether these charges have been disproved or withdrawn; and whether Mr. Cumberbatch still performs consular duties at Smyrna, and enjoys the confidence of Her Majesty's Government.
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The Secretary of State is not aware that unsatisfactory relations exist between Her Majesty's Consul at Smyrna and the members of the British community there. Charges against the personal character of the surgeon of the Seamen'sHospital were brought before the Hospital Committee, of which the Consul is the ex-officio chairman. The Judge of the Supreme Court at Constantinople eventually investigated these charges, and pronounced them to have been without any foundation. Mr. Cumberbatch still performs consular duties at Smyrna, and enjoys the confidence of Her Majesty's Government.
United States Navigation Laws
I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether his attention has been called to Department Circular No. 17, dated 8th February, 1899, promulgated by the Treasury Department of the Bureau of Navigation at Washington, United States of America, reciting an amendment in the Federal Laws of 1884, by an Act approved 21st December, 1898; whether, under the amendment referred to, it becomes unlawful to pay any seaman wages in advance of the time when he has actually earned the same; also, whether any shipmaster paying such an advance to seamen becomes liable to heavy fine and six months' imprisonment; whether any treaty exists between Great Britain and the United States exempting our national shipping from the operation of American domestic legislation, which is in conflict with British law, or otherwise; and whether Her Majesty's Government are prepared to negotiate with the United States for the protection of British shipowners and seamen in regard to advances, which are legal in this country, and especially against the exaction of what is called "blood money" by crimps in lieu of such advances.
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My attention has been called to the Circular issued by the Treasury Department of the Bureau of Navigation at Washington. The questions affecting British shipping which arise in connection with the United States law referred to are receiving the careful consideration of Her Majesty's Government.
City Chamberlain's Jurisdiction Over Apprentices
On behalf of the hon. Member for Pontefract, I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that recently the City Chamberlain sentenced two boys, serving as apprentices to Messrs. Eyre and Spottiswoode, to fourteen days" solitary confinement at Bridewell for trifling offences connected with the breaking of their indentures; whether he will state to the House by virtue of what authority the City Chamberlain has jurisdiction in such matters, and whether the procedure followed is similar to the procedure of other courts; and whether he will make inquiries with a view to ascertaining if such jurisdiction and procedure is applicable to existing conditions.
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The City Chamberlain has an ancient customary jurisdiction in connection with the Mayor's Court to adjudicate on disputes between masters and apprentices, and commits apprentices to the Bridewell for misconduct in accordance with a, scheme approved by the Master of the Rolls (under 52, George III. c. 101, and. the Charitable Trusts Acts). I am not aware of any reason for dissenting from the view expressed by my predecessors that the Chamberlain's Court is distinguished for its impartial administration and care of the rights of apprentices. I may add that the Bridewell is not a prison coming within the provisions of the Prison Act., nor is it in any way under the inspection or control of the Home Office.
Maintenance In Industrial And Reformatory Schools
I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether his attention has been drawn to paragraph 19 of the 4th Report of the Committee on Public Accounts; and whether, pending the future legislation therein referred to, he proposes to take any measures to enforce the better collection of parental contributions towards the maintenance of children detained in reformatory and industrial schools.
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A Bill containing provisions relating to the parental contributions referred to was introduced into and passed the House of Lords this session. I am sorry that it was impossible for any further progress to be made with it, but I may say that the inspector and his agents are instructed to use every effort to keep up and improve the present standard of collection; and that, even with the law as it stands, the increased energy devoted to this matter has not been without success.
Lancashire Sea Fisheries Committee
I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade if he will consider, before granting further powers to the Lancashire Sea Fisheries Committee, the cost already incurred, and the loss suffered by the fishermen.
The only application from this Committee for further powers at present before the Board of Trade is one for sanction to a bye-law for limiting the kind of nets or instruments to be used in fishing for shrimps or prawns in a certain part of the Mersey estuary. A public local inquiry will be held in regard to this, and any representations that fishermen or others interested may make to the inspector will receive the careful consideration of the Board of Trade. As regards any applications that may hereafter be made I can only say that due regard will be had to the interests of all those who may be affected by them.
Accommodation For Lascar Seamen
I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether he is now in a position to state if the 210th Section of the Merchant Shipping Act, which deals with the accommodation of seamen on board ship, applies to Lascar and other native seamen in the same manner as it applies to seamen engaged on board British vessels registered in ports of the United Kingdom; and if he is now in the position to give the opinion of the Law Officers of the Crown in accordance with the promise made some months ago.
Yes, Sir. The Board of Trade are now in possession of the opinion of the Law Officers of the Crown with regard to the point to which the hon. Member refers. The opinion is to the effect that the Board have acted properly in declining to allow any deduction from tonnage in respect of Lascar crew space which is not in accordance with the requirements of Section 210 of the Merchant Shipping Act; further, that the question whether proceedings should be taken to enforce these requirements is one for the consideration of the Board of Trade under all the circumstances of the case, among which are the provisions of Section 25 of the Imperial Act of George IV., 4 c. 80 and the conflicting provisions of the Indian Merchant Shipping Acts. At the moment, I can only say that the matter in all its bearings shall receive very careful consideration, and that I have already placed myself in communication with the India Office with a view of securing, if possible, an assimilation of the Indian to the Imperial law on the subject.
May I call attention to the fact that the right hon. Gentleman has not answered my question? I want to know whether the Law Officers of the Crown advise that the company are breaking the law in not providing for Lascars the same accommodation as the British seamen.
Obviously I cannot give any further answer in the unavoidable absence of my right hon. friend.
I have been promised an answer to this question for over four months. I shall take an early opportunity to call attention to the matter unless I soon get one.
Weights And Measures Act—Brewers' Casks
I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade if he will explain to the House upon what statutory or legal authority, and under what case decided in a competent court of law, the Board of Trade issued their letter to the Warwickshire County Council dated 26th January, 1895, marked T.S.H 86, stating that brewers' casks in use which did not bear any permanent representation upon the cask itself, by way of marking or otherwise of its capacity or of the measure of its contents, were to be considered as exempt from obligation to the Statute and the operations of The Weights and Measures Act, 1878, under Section 22.
In December, 1894, the Warwickshire County Council asked for the "views" of the Board of Trade upon the subject, and in January, 1895, the Board wrote the letter referred to in the question upon the advice of their solicitor. I do not admit that the hon. Gentleman's question gives an accurate resumé of that letter.
Light Dues
I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade if his attention has been called to the fact that light dues have been levied against vessels engaged in inland navigation and in areas not lighted at the expense of the General Lighthouse Fund; and, if so, whether he will make such alterations as may be necessary to relieve these vessels from this tax.
The question whether light dues should be levied on vessels exclusively engaged in areas not lighted at the expense of the General Lighthouse Fund has been brought to my notice. I am advised that such vessels are not exempt under the Act, and can only be exempted by Order in Council. This claim to exemption is only one of several which have arisen since the passing of the Act, and I propose that they shall all be very carefully considered as soon as we have a little more experience of the operation of the Act.
Fraserburgh Light Railway
I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether he can now state when the Order for the Light Railway from Fraser burgh to St. Courts will be issued.
The Board of Trade understand from the promoters that they will apply for confirmation of the Order as soon as they have settled with the Treasury the terms of the agreement for an advance of money from the State.
Electric Tramcar Accident In Dublin
I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that three passengers on an electric tramcar in Dublin, on Sunday last, were injured by the breaking of the electric wires, which was caused by a passenger pulling the trolly rope in mistake for the bell rope to stop the car; whether he is aware that Mr. Mahoney, the magistrate before whom a police charge was brought arising out of the accident, censured the tramway company for exposing the public using the trams to the danger of pulling the trolly rope by mistake for a bell rope, and also censured the Board of Trade for having sanctioned such a dangerous arrangement; and whether he will cause a departmental inquiry into this matter, and see that the trolly rope is so protected that it cannot be interfered with except by the officer in charge of the car, and that proper arrangements for stopping the cars are placed on the top as well as within them.
The Board of Trade have entered into communication with the company with reference to this matter. When their reply is received I will decide whether an expert inquiry will be useful. In the meantime I can express no opinion on the subject.
Huddersfield Swine Fever Regulations
On behalf of the hon. Member for the St. Patrick Division of Dublin, I beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture whether he is aware that the local authority for the county borough of Huddersfield have made a regulation that after the 26th July, 1899, no swine shall be moved into the county borough of Huddersfield from Ireland; and whether he will endeavour to have this regulation rescinded.
I have seen the regulation to which the hon. Member refers. It is made under similar circumstances to those which led to the making of the West Riding regulation with regard to which the hon. Member questioned me on Tuesday, and the answer I then gave is equally applicable on the present occasion.
Tithe Rent-Charge (Rates) Bill
I beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture if he will state the amount of the sum deducted in each case from the amount payable to Kent, Sussex, Brighton, Hastings, Middlesex, Hertfordshire, and the Isle of Wight out of the Local Taxation Grant, to provide the £87,000 taken from the grant under the Tithe Rent-Charge (Rates) Bill.
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The share of the counties and county boroughs named in a sum of £87,000, distributed in the proportion of what are known as the "discontinued grants," would amount in the case of Kent to £2,636, East Sussex £868, West Sussex £404, Brighton £307, Hastings £107, Middlesex £2,445, Herts £753, and the Isle of Wight £276.
I beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture if he will state the amount of the sum deducted in each case from the amount payable to the counties of Bucks and Berks, and the county boroughs of Reading, West Ham, and Bournemouth, out of the local taxation grant to provide the £87,000 taken from the grant under Tithe Rent-Charge (Rates) Bill.
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The shares of the counties and of the first two county boroughs named, in a sum of £87,000, distributed in the proportion of what are known as the "discontinued grants," would be £630, £619, £139, and £551, respectively. The figures for the newly created county borough of Bournemouth are not yet available.
Rabies And The Muzzling Order
I beg to ask the President of the Board of Agri- culture what progress has been made with the extirpation of rabies in England since his last statement; and whether he can now say when it will be practicable and expedient to revoke the muzzling orders which are still in force.
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Perhaps I may be allowed to give the number of cases of rabies known to have occurred in Great Britain since 1896, the year prior to the commencement of our operations against the disease. In that year 436 cases were confirmed; in 1897, 151 cases; in 1898, 17 cases; and during the present year, so far as it has gone, only one case has been confirmed. With regard to the revocation of the muzzling orders, we have now made arrangements for obtaining the same security against the introduction of the disease from Ireland as exists in the case of foreign countries, and as soon as these arrangements arc in effective operation I hope to be in a position to withdraw the Orders from the Midland and West Riding areas, to be followed at no distant date by the revocation of those in force in Lancashire and the metropolitan area, if no further cases occur.
Tuberculosis
I beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture whether he now proposes to take any steps to give effect to the recommendations of the Commission on tuberculosis as regards what the Commission held to be the most important part of the inquiry, the elimination of the disease by the provision of guaranteed tuberculin, and the services of qualified veterinary surgeons gratuitously or otherwise; and whether, in any case, the Board of Agriculture will prepare and distribute a clear and concise statement of the method of elimination recommended by the Commission, and of the results of the adoption of this method in Denmark and other countries, and on certain estates in the United Kingdom.
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Since the hon. Member last called my attention to this matter, nothing has occurred which would suggest that there is any general desire on the part of agriculturists that the Government should gratuitously provide tuberculin and the services of a veterinary surgeon for the purpose of enabling stock owners to test their animals for tuber- culosis, and in these circumstances I could not fairly ask the Treasury to supply funds for the purpose. With regard to the issue of literature on the subject, I may remind the hon. Member that the Royal Agricultural Society recently gave extensive circulation to a very concise and practical leaflet, but I propose during the recess to bring up to date our information as to the methods of dealing with the disease, and the results obtained in Denmark and other countries, so as to enable me to determine whether we can usefully supplement the particulars already in the possession of agriculturists on the subject.
Rating Of Machinery
I beg to ask the President of the Local Government Board whether his attention has been called to a communication, addressed to his Department by the Sunderland Board of Guardians, calling attention to the fact that there are upwards of 300 unions in England and Wales in which machinery included in the various hereditaments is not rated, thus reducing the amount received from Imperial and other taxation; and what steps, if any, he intends to take in the matter.
I have seen the communication referred to in the question; but the matter is not one with respect to which the Local Government Board have any authority to interfere. If a person is aggrieved on the ground that a particular hereditament is assessed too low, because the value of machinery which ought to be included in the assessment is not included, he can object to the valuation list before the Assessment Committee, and if he does not obtain relief he can appeal against the rate.
Rates On Rifle Ranges
I beg to ask the President of the Local Government Board whether he can state the number of instances in which Assessment Committees have allowed rifle ranges to be exempted from local rates; and whether he will make any representation, by circular or otherwise, to the local rating authorities in cases where this exemption has not been granted.
The Local Government Board have no information on the subject referred to in the question, nor have they any authority to intervene with regard to it.
Poisonous Tinned Foods
I beg to ask the President of the Local Government Board whether he has considered the circumstances disclosed at a recent inquest as to deaths at a London hotel, and other instances in the past few years of alleged danger to life from improperly prepared or packed tinned meats, fruits, vegetables. and other articles of food; what precautions are now taken in the way of inspection, or otherwise, to check these risks, both as regards imported and home-produced tinned articles of food; and whether further steps will be taken in the interests of public health.
The Local Government Board have from time to time made investigation into the circumstances of injury to health and danger to life by reason of the consumption of various articles of food, including cases of poisoning by tinned meats and other articles. The method of investigation in these cases is now well known, and it would appear that in the case to which the hon. Member refers the inquest has been adjourned in order that further analysis may be made. Power is given by the general law for the inspection and examination of articles of food deposited for the purpose of sale, or preparation for sale, and intended for the food of man, and it does not appear that further steps than those being adopted in the special case referred to, or than those applicable to the subject generally, are required.
Motor Cars
On behalf of the hon. Member for the Peckham Division of Camberwell, I beg to ask the President of the Local Government Board whether his attention has been called to the numerous accidents that have lately been caused by motor cars; and whether he will take steps to compel all drivers of motor cars to stop until horses and carriages have passed when requested to do so by the persons in charge of them.
No representations have been made to me as to numerous accidents caused by motor cars, and ample powers are given already under regulations made by the Local Government Board (Article IV., sub-section 8, of the Light Locomotives on Highways Order, 1896) to give effect to the object of the hon. Member. The article provides that every person shall, on the request of any police constable or of any person having charge of a restive horse, or on such constable or person putting up his hand as a signal for that purpose, cause the light locomotive to stop and to remain stationary so long as may be reasonably necessary.
East Central Sorters' Holidays
I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster-General, whether he is aware that Sorters White, Eastop, Woodbridge, Nicholls, North, Dyer, Davidson, and Kennedy, attached to the east central section General Post Office, have not received twenty-one days' annual leave although they have completed five years' service; and whether they are entitled to this period of leave under the Tweed-mouth scheme, seeing that two sorters attached to the east central section of exactly identical service with the first four mentioned have received it, and that with the exception of these two all the sorters granted leave in October, which carries with it a twenty-one days' leave without question, are juniors to the officers mentioned.
The eight sorters referred to had not completed five years' service when the period arrived which they had selected for annual leave. As regards the latter part of the question the hon. Member appears to be under a misapprehension. Leave in October does not carry with it "a twenty-one days' leave without question"; and no officer completing five years' service (say) in November would be granted twenty-one days' leave in October.
Fixed Wages For Rural Postmen
I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster-General, if he will consider the case of Thomas Cooper, rural postman of Pease down St. John, near Bath, who, notwithstanding the announced policy of abolishing the system of fixed wages, is still kept on the fixed scale of 16s: weekly, whereas a second, rural postman at the same office is on scale and is receiving 19s. weekly, although he does an hour less duty daily.
The hon. Member is under a misapprehension in supposing that a policy of abolishing fixed wages for established rural postman has been adopted. Such is not the case, inasmuch as fixed wages are paid to rural postmen working from many of the smaller post offices. Pease down St. John is one of those offices, and Thomas Cooper is rightly paid fixed wages of 16s. a week. The other rural postman at the same office is on an obsolete scale rising to 19s. a week, for which fixed wages of 16s. will be substituted on a vacancy.
Fintona Mails
I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster-General, will he explain why the mails are not delivered in Fintona, County Tyrone, on Sunday mornings before 10 a.m., although they are despatched from Omagh, six miles distant, at 6 a.m.; and whether he is aware that the Great Northern train for Bundoran leaves Fintona on Sundays at 9.10, and that great inconvenience is caused to many inhabitants of Fintona by not receiving their letters before the departure of that train.
As stated in answer to the hon. Member's question of the 19th June, the mails are due at Fintona on Sundays about 9 a.m., and the delivery commences at 9.15. There being no early morning train to Fintona on Sundays, the mails have to be forwarded by road from Omagh. They are sent by the mounted postman leaving Omagh at 6 a.m., and reaching Derrabard, about 2¼ miles from Fintona, at 8.10a.m. From Derrabard the mails are conveyed by a foot messenger to Fintona. The train leaving Fintona at 9.10 a.m. on Sundays only runs during the summer, and few passengers go by it. No great or wide spread inconvenience is therefore caused through the letters not being delivered on Sundays before the departure of this train.
Is it not the fact that Omagh is only six miles from Fintona? Can the right hon. Gentleman explain why it takes over three hours to convey the mails that distance?
I think the distance is nearer eight miles. Letters have to be delivered on the road, and that, I think, sufficiently accounts for the delay.
Rural Deliveries In County Monaghan
I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster-General, has anything been done to redress the balance of rural deliveries in the district of Carrickroe, County Monaghan, where great dissatisfaction prevails with the system which provides for one and the same townland a four-day delivery, in certain parts, while in other parts providing for only a two-day delivery; and, whether, if this system cannot be improved, he will revert to the old methods of delivery.
The correspondence for the district in question is very small, and the service which has been granted to each part is of the greatest frequency that the circumstances at present permit. But fresh returns of the correspondence shall before long be taken, and if it is found that a more frequent service can be given, arrangements shall be made accordingly. If the present system cannot be improved, any of the residents who desire it can, as formerly, have their letters left at the Carrickroe Post Office to be called for.
Cloughan Postal Arrangements
I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster-General, whether, seeing that the sub-post office at Coughing, near Mullingar, has been abolished since last May, it is intended to re-establish the office; whether he is aware that the people of the district are greatly inconvenienced by its discontinuance, as their only means at present of purchasing stamps is to meet the letter carrier at a specified time and place on the public roadway; and whether steps will be at once taken to establish the office once more at Coughing, where it is understood there is more than one properly qualified person ready to undertake the duties of the position of sub-postmaster.
It is not intended to re-establish the sub-post office at Coughing, near Mullingar. A house-to-house delivery has been afforded throughout the district, and an office is no longer needed as a place of call for letters. The Postmaster-General is not aware that the residents are greatly inconvenienced by the closing of the office. The sale of stamps at the Coughing office was small, and the supply carried by the postman is believed to suffice for the ordinary wants of the neighbourhood. The Postmaster-General sees no reason for establishing an office once more at Coughing.
Cromwell's Statue
I beg to ask the First Commissioner of Works whether he can state the precise process or arrangement by which it has been decided to erect a statue to Oliver Cromwell within the grounds of Westminster Palace, in addition to the bust of Cromwell already placed near the foot of the grand staircase leading to the Committee Rooms; whether any sanction has ever been given by Parliament for the erection of either of these two memorials; and whether the present House of Commons has had or will have any opportunity of expressing its opinion in the matter.
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May I ask the right hon. Gentleman if he will also favourably consider the request in the third paragraph of the question, in order that the electors of this country may have an opportunity of taking note of those who are engaged in this, idiotic opposition to honouring the memory of England's greatest ruler?
Order, order! The hon. Member is not in order in applying the language he has used to a question which appears on the Paper in the name of another hon. Member.
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I did not apply it to the hon. Member, but to the opposition. I will be glad to exchange it for any Parliamentary equivalent.
I have already stated on several occasions that the offer of a statue of Oliver Cromwell was made to, and accepted by, the late Government, and a site for its erection chosen by my Predecessor at the Office of Works. The Government on their accession to office in 1895 were asked whether they would adhere to the action of their predecessors, and they agreed to do so. The bust of Oliver Cromwell, which is admitted to be a very fine work of art, was presented to, and accepted by, the First Lord of the Treasury in the name of the House. It has not been customary, nor is it necessary, to obtain the formal sanction of the House to gifts of this character.
Has my right hon. friend had his attention called to the fact that there is a far more suitable site in Marylebone Road, in the neighbourhood of Baker Street, where there is a chamber specially reserved for malefactors?
Is the right hon. Gentleman in a position to give us the name of the generous donor?
No; I am not.
Is he ashamed of it?
Embo Fisherman's Fines
I beg to ask the Lord Advocate, whether his attention has been called to the case of John Cumming, fisherman, Embo, who on 28th June last was sentenced at Tain to pay a fine of £5, which is the maximum which any police or summary court in Scotland can impose in the very worst case in which the option of a fine is allowed; whether he is aware that, prior to paying the fine, Cumming was compelled to pay a sum of £3 10s. for alleged damage to the cell in which he was confined without any citation being served upon him, or an independent valuation made; and, whether, as Cumming was fined the maximum penalty, the authorities will repay the £3 10s.
The statement contained in the first paragraph of the hon. Member's question is not quite correct, as the maximum fine under the Burgh Police Act, 1892, is £10. I am informed by the Procurator-Fiscal that John Cumming was tried on the 29th ultimo, and was represented by an agent. The evidence fully supported the charges of serious assaults found proved, and the magistrates gave the accused the option of paying a fine out of compassion, and in respect of his calling as a fisherman, and his statement that he was robbed in the train of his earnings. The Procurator-Fiscal also informs me that the accused was very violent in the police cells, and that the amount acquiesced in and paid for by him for smashing the furniture will not, according to contract prices, now submitted, be sufficient to cover the loss. This matter rests with the county authorities, and I can give no assurance as to repayment.
Will the Lord Advocate have an independent valuation made of the damage?
I believe the valuation made was accurate.
School Board Registers
I beg to ask the Vice-President of the Committee of Council on Education, if his attention has been called to the working of the present arrangements for compiling the list of voters for School Board elections in parishes outside the metropolis, and outside boroughs, under Section 29 of the Education Act, 1870 (33 and 34 Vic., c. 75, s. 29), and under the second schedule of the Act of 1873 (36 and 37 Vic., c. 86, Schedule 2); and whether he will consider the advisability of taking the necessary steps for making the register of parochial electors also the register for the purposes of School Board elections.
My attention has been called to the matter by the question. The suggestion of the hon. Member cannot be carried out without legislation, which it is impossible at this period of the session to contemplate.
Covent Carden Theatre Fund
I beg to ask Mr. Solicitor-General, whether the scheme of distribution in connection with the Covent Garden Theatre Fund, recently promised by Mr. Attorney-General, will be presented before the close of the session.
After careful consideration a scheme was formulated under the direction of the Attorney-General in May last. It would in all probability have already received the sanction of the court, but for unexpected opposition raised by the defendants in the suit. The matter stands in the judge's list for next Monday.
Irish Road Contractors
I beg to ask Mr. Attorney-General for Ireland, whether his attention has been called to the position of road contractors in Ireland in connection with the Local Government (Ireland) Act, 1898; and whether a contractor for the maintenance and repair of county roads, as holding a place of profit under the council, is disqualified from holding the position of collector of poor rate; and, if so, will the attention of the Local Government Board be directed to the position of these contractors.
The answer to the first paragraph is in the affirmative. I must ask the hon. Member to give a concrete case, as the answer will in some degree depend on the terms of the scheme under which the collector has been re-employed. The attention of the Local Government Bill is being directed to the matter, as there is some doubt whether it is provided for by this Order of the 3rd of July last.
Contagious Diseases (Animals) Act In Ireland
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether the business of guardians as a local authority under the Contagious Diseases (Animals) Act, 1894, which was transferred to the County Council by the Local Government (Ireland) Act, has, by an Order of the Local Government Board of the 19th July, 1899, been retransferred to the guardians as District Council; and whether the Local Government Board has power to make an Order overruling an Act of Parliament; and, if so, whether the rights of clerks of unions for loss of office as existing officers are preserved.
The reply to the first paragraph is in the negative. The Board's Order of the 19th July does not refer to the business of the guardians under the Diseases of Animals Act, 1894, which was transferred to the County Council by Section 6 (b) of the Local Government (Ireland) Act, 1898; but it empowers urban and rural district councils to appoint inspectors of dairies, milkshops, and cowsheds in accordance with the provisions of Section 9 of the Contagious Diseases (Animals) Act, 1896. The rights of clerks of unions to compensation for loss of office are not interfered with by the Local Government Board's Order above referred to.
Milk Adulteration In Ireland
I beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture whether his attention has been called to the nominal penalties recently imposed in cases of milk adulteration at a petty sessions in County Cork; and whether it will be possible for similar penalties to be imposed, in like cases, under the Sale of Food and Drugs Bill of the present session.
At the request of my right hon. friend I will reply to this question. The answer to the first paragraph is in the affirmative. The Bill referred to in the second paragraph contains special provisions prescribing penalties for offences committed under the Sale of Food and Drugs Acts, the penalties in most cases being maximum sums which may be abated in the discretion of the magistrates.
Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in one of the cases referred to, in which the milk was deficient in 30 per cent. of fat, the merely nominal fine of 5s. was imposed? Would it be possible for a similar type of penalty to be imposed in like cases under the Bill passed during the present session?
I believe so.
Irish Land Commission Valuers
On behalf of the hon. Member for North Meath, I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether valuers in the Land Purchase Department of the Irish Land Commission are permitted to make private valuations or not; whether he is aware that on the Garnett estate, in the Land Judge's Court, a Mr. Thomas Roberts, one of the valuators of the Irish Land Commission Court, Purchase Department, made private valuations for the solicitors having carriage of sale, Messrs. Lonfield and Company, which caused the proposed arrangements to purchase by the tenants to fall through; and whether this gentleman, being a small incumbrancer on the property, was permitted to do so by the Land Commission; whether this Mr. Roberts, who is considerably over sixty-five years of age, will be continued as a Commissioner; and whether, in view of the contemplated sale of the portions of this estate in the hands of the encumbrancer and the recent advertisements of sale proposing to create tenancies and divide it into small areas from three acres to 150, the Congested Districts Board be consulted with a view to their purchasing this estate.
All valuers in land purchase cases for the Land Commission are now Assistant-Commissioners. Assistant-Commissioners paid by annual salary are not permitted to make valuations of land, save in the performance of their duties for the Land Commission. Prior to his appointment in 1897 as a salaried Assistant-Commissioner, Mr. Thomas Roberts, who is an incumbrancer on the estate referred to, was Receiver over that estate. On his appointment in 1897 he resigned the Receivership, and states that he thereupon handed over his books and papers connected with the estate to the new Receiver. He further states that at no time did he inspect the estate for the purpose of valuing it or any part of it for sale, and never made any valuation for the solicitor having carriage of the sale. As to the last paragraph, if the estate referred to is in a congested district, a point upon which I have no information, any proposal that may come before the Congested Districts Board for its purchase would, of course, be considered.
Delacour V Healy
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether his attention has been directed to the case of Delacour v. Healy, heard at the Castletown Roche Petty Sessions on the 27th ult., and to the action of the magistrates in refusing to adjourn the case; whether he is aware that the adjournment was sought to enable the defendant to produce documentary evidence of his yearly tenancy, then in the possession of the clerk of the union, and that a decree for possession within fourteen days was granted on the ground that he was a caretaker; and if he will refuse to permit the police to execute this decree until an opportunity is afforded to the tenant to produce the evidence of his yearly tenancy.
I believe the facts are correctly stated in the first and second paragraphs. I am informed that it was proved that the summons in the case had been served four days before the hearing, and that the magistrates considered this was ample time in which to obtain any documentary evidence from the clerk of the union. The decree was directed for execution to a special bailiff, and not to the police. I have no authority to put a stay on the execution of the decree.
Dublin City Police
I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether any regulation exists by which members of the Dublin Metropolitan Police may be compelled to deal for such goods as they may require at particular shops; and, if not, whether he will inquire whether any compulsion in that direction has been attempted in the district of Kilmainham; and, if he finds that there has been, whether he will take steps to put a stop to it.
No officer of any rank in the Dublin Metropolitan Police is permitted directly, or indirectly, to interfere with the members of the force in the purchase of goods that they require for their private use, and they are not required to deal with particular shops. A letter, bearing no signature, was recently received by the Chief Commissioner to the effect that an officer had influenced one of the men at Kilmainham Police Station to change his butcher, and on inquiry it was ascertained that there was not a particle of foundation for the allegation.
Licensing Commission Reports—Sunday Liquor Trade
I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether, as both the majority and minority Reports of the Royal Commission on the Licensing Laws recommend a reduction in the hours of sale of intoxicating liquors on Sundays, he will consider the desirability of introducing a measure next session to carry out these recommendations, and thus effect a much needed reform.
In answer to my hon. friend, I have to say that the Report, or, rather, Reports, of the Royal Commission deserve, and will receive, our most careful attention, but I am not in a position to pledge the Government with regard to legislation on any of their recommendations at the present time.
Ben Nevis Observatory
I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury, with reference to the proposal to discontinue the high level observatory on Ben Nevis for want of funds, if he is aware that of the £15,000 granted to the Meteorological Council by Government for scientific investigation, nearly £1,000 is taken as payment for the Council for managing the grant, whilst the secretary also receives £800; that a sum is being annually set aside by the Council in order to provide for a superannuation fund, which now amounts to £2,000, and that upwards of £3,000 has been sunk in the high level observatory at Ben Nevis, the benefits accruing to science from the expenditure of such money being probably lost if the cycle of observations is not completed; whether conditions were imposed by the Government on granting this sum for scientific research that the money should be devoted exclusively to that object, and, if not, whether such conditions could now be imposed; and if he will cause steps to be taken so that the annual grant of money may be made direct to the Scottish Society in place of going through the intermediary of the Council, thus avoiding recourse to private charity for the upkeep of the only observatory possessed by this country at the high level of 4,400 feet.
The Government have no information as to the details of the expenditure of the Meteorological Council except such as may be derived from their report, and in that report no mention is made of any expenditure for superannuation. Their expenditure is, of course, annually audited. The council, I am informed, are overhauling their expenditure, and I trust that the result of that operation will be that more of the funds given by the State will be available for carrying on observatory work in the United Kingdom. As regards the second paragraph of the question, it is a condition that the grants should be applied exclusively to meteorological work, and no doubt the Controller and Auditor-General would call attention to any misapplication.
I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether, seeing that the Meteorological Council have disregarded the recommendation given last year by the Government to afford the Scottish Meteorological Society the necessary support to maintain the Ben Nevis Observatory, he will, failing other action, bring further pressure to bear on the Meteorological Council, or increase the grant to that body by the few hundred pounds necessary to keep up the observatory as a national one.
The hon. Gentleman is under a misapprehension as regards the facts of this case. He seems to imply that pressure has been put by the Treasury on the council on former occasions with regard to the devotion of their funds to this or that purpose. The Treasury have carefully abstained from any action of that sort. The responsibility for spending their £15,000 rests, and must rest, with the Meteorologial Council.
Seeing that a private donor has come forward with funds to enable the observatory to be carried on for another year, will the right hon. Gentleman make inquiries during the recess to ascertain whether he would be justified in proposing next year a small grant of a few hundred pounds in aid of the observatory?
It is not for me to say the Meteorological Council do or do not carry out the functions entrusted to them to the best advantage, but I confess I think a Government Department is even less qualified to deal with a strictly scientific matter.
Business Of The House
When does the Chief Secretary propose to take the Lords' Amendments to the Irish Agriculture and Technical Instruction Bill, which we may expect down to-morrow, as the Report stage is being taken to-day?
It will not be possible to consider the Lords' Amendments to the Bill before Monday or Tuesday, because to-morrow must be devoted to the discussion of the Report of Supply.
Message From The Lords
Dublin Corporation Bill
That they insist on their Amendments to the Dublin Corporation Bill, to which this House have disagreed, for which they assign reasons, and disagree to the consequential Amendments made by this House to the Bill.
That they have agreed to—
Isle Of Man (Customs) Bill
Without Amendment.
Agriculture And Technical Instruction (Ireland) Bill
Sale Of Food And Drugs Bill
Improvement Of Land Bill
SMALL HOUSES (ACQUISITION OF OWNERSHIP) BILL.
NORTH-WEST LONDON RAILWAY BILL.
BROMPTON AND PICCADILLY CIRCUS RAILWAY BILL.
LEEDS CORPORATION BILL.
CHARING-CROSS, EUSTON, AND HAMPSTEAD RAILWAY BILL.
NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE TRAMWAYS AND IMPROVEMENT BILL.
LONDON IMPROVEMENTS BILL.
HARROW AND UXBRIDGE RAILWAY BILL.
UXBRIDGE AND RICKMANSWORTH RAILWAY BILL.
With Amendments.
Amendments made by this House to the Amendments made by the Lords, and to the consequential Amendment made by this House to
London And North Western Railway (Additional Powers) Bill
Amendments to—
Tramways Orders Confirmation (No 2) Bill Lords
Tramways Orders Confirmation (No 3) Bill Lords
Renfrew Burgh And Harbour Extension Bill Lords
CALEDONIAN RAILWAY (GENERAL POWERS) BILL [Lords].
ABERDEEN JOINT PASSENGER STATION BILL [Lords].
LEIGH-ON-SEA URBAN DISTRICT COUNCIL BILL [Lords].
MOSS SIDE URBAN DISTRICT COUNCIL (TRAMWAYS) BILL [Lords].
STRETFORD URBAN DISTRICT COUNCIL (TRAMWAYS) BILL [Lords].
WITHINGTON URBAN DISTRICT COUNCIL (TRAMWAYS) BILL [Lords].
WESTON-SUPER-MARE, CLEVEDON, AND PORTISHEAD TRAMWAYS COMPANY (LIGHT RAILWAY EXTENSIONS) BILL [Lords].
YEADON AND GUISELEY GAS BILL [Lords].
GLASGOW AND SOUTH-WESTERN RAILWAY BILL [Lords].
GREAT EASTERN RAILWAY (GENERAL POWERS) BILL [Lords].
GREAT YARMOUTH WATER BILL [Lords].
NORTH-EASTERN RAILWAY BILL [Lords].
NORTH STAFFORDSHIRE RAILWAY BILL [Lords].
WOLVERHAMPTON TRAMWAYS BILL [Lords].
Without Amendment.
Agriculture And Technical Instruction (Ireland) Bill
Lords Amendments to be considered upon Monday next, and to be printed. [Bill 300.]
Sale Of Food And Drugs Bill
Lords Amendments to be considered upon Monday next, and to be printed. [Bill 301.]
Small Houses (Acquisition Of Ownership) Bill
Lords Amendments to be considered upon Monday next, and to be printed. [Bill 302.]
Supply 22Nd Allotted Day
Considered in Committee.
(In the Committee.)
Civil Service Estimates, 1899–1900
Class I
1. £2, 303, to complete the sum for harbours under the Board of Trade.
2. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That a sum, not exceeding £17,500, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900, for constructing a new Harbour of Refuge at Peterhead."
I rise to protest against the enormous expenditure yearly upon Peterhead Harbour. I notice that £36,000 is taken for a railway which nobody wants, and £300 for a new road that nobody will travel over. In face of the fact that only £10,000 can be got for the whole of the harbours in Ireland, I object to £378,000 being spent on a useless harbour in the north of Scotland. I hope the House will join with me in my protest. The work is only undertaken in order to use convict labour, and it would be far cheaper to pension the convicts off, or lay them up in brown paper, than incur this enormous outlay. I beg to move to reduce the Vote by £3,500.
Motion made, and Question, "That a sum, not exceeding £14,000, be granted for the said Service"—( Major Jameson)—put, and negatived.
Original Question put, and agreed to.
Class Ii
3. £329,579, to complete the sum for Stationery and Printing.
Before this Vote passes I desire to ask the Secretary of the Treasury whether he can make any statement with reference to the course he proposes to take as to the payment to the reporters of The Official Debates of the sums they have lost owing to the bankruptcy of the late contractor.
I should like to ask the right hon. Gentleman as to the desirability of allowing every Member of this House, as is the case in almost every other Parliament in the world, to have a copy of the proceedings of each day on his breakfast table the following morning. In the case of Canada each Member of Parliament finds on his breakfast table an official report of the Parliamentary proceedings of the previous day. Why cannot the Imperial Parliament give to its Members what the Dominion Parliament gives to its Members? In what respect do the circumstances of the two Parliaments differ? When we last discussed this, the hon. Member who spoke on behalf of the Government seemed to be under the impression that the hours of the Dominion Parliament were very different from our own; but I have found, on careful inquiry, and by an examination of the official reports, that the Canadian Parliament sits quite as late as our own—and, indeed, very much later. Yet, notwithstanding this fact, and the additional fact that the proceedings are conducted in two languages, Members get the official report of the proceedings on their breakfast-table the next morning. If this can be done in Canada, why cannot it be done in London? Are our printers less enterprising? Is it a matter of expense? Then, surely, if the Dominion Parliament can afford it, the Imperial Parliament should be able to do so. It would be a great advantage to hon. Members to be able to secure the answers to questions, and to keep themselves au courant with the proceedings of the House. Are there not other directions in which economies might be made? Certain Papers, for instance, are printed under the regulations of the House which need not be printed. Cannot it be possible to hold such Papers. as unprinted and let them be seen in the Library? Let economy be practised as far as possible in the Stationery Office. No one has done more in that direction than the Gentleman who is now responsible for it; I know that he has done his utmost in connection with these contracts to save the country unnecessary expense in the printing department. In asking the right hon. Gentleman to spend a little more money, I am only asking him to act in a direction which would be useful, and I hope the right hon. Gentleman will take this question into serious consideration. In regard to the question asked by my hon. friend in reference to the reporters who have somewhat unfortunately been deprived of what must, in some cases, have been considerable sums of money, I wish to say that the sympathy of hon. Members on both sides of the House is universally with these reporters, and if the Government can see their way to do anything in the direction of helping them, nobody in this House, or outside it, would raise any objection.
*
I wish to join the hon. Gentlemen who have just spoken in their appeal to the Secretary to the Treasury on behalf of the reporters of The Debates. I think the reflection should not lie on this House that the work on some of these volumes of Debates is not paid for. It may be perfectly true that the Treasury are not directly responsible, but they were responsible for accepting the contractor they did, and they should have seen to it that the security they got was thoroughly adequate, and that it was impossible for such circumstances to occur as they did in this case. There is another point I wish to refer to, and on which I wish some information. I must confess that when the reporters parted with their manuscript without an understanding that they would be paid for their arrears, they showed a simplicity not usually exhibited by the members of the Press. I am told that the officials held over them a threat that if the reporters refused, on any consideration, to give up their manuscript they would not be employed in future on The Debates. That is a reflection which ought to be removed if there is no ground for it. But, apart entirely from that consideration, I do think that on the broad ground that these men are not in a position to stand the very serious loss of not being paid for their labour, and on the ground that, after all, we were responsible for accepting the contractor, and that the sum involved is comparatively a small one, the Treasury should see their way to pay the gentlemen, and in that way remove a very considerable reflection on this assembly.
*
There are two points in connection with this Vote to which I wish to call attention—I mean the quantity of printed matter poured in upon us, and the character of the reporting of The Debates. I lately, through a question, called the attention of the Secretary to the Treasury to the immense quantity of printed matter delivered to us—a large portion of which is of no interest to the general body of Members; and the right hon. Gentleman was good enough to promise to see if there could not be a reduction of that amount. I call attention to only one class of Papers—the Amendments to private Bills—that come down to us. I remember on one occasion there were 112 pages of Amendments to private Bills, and quite lately—within the last few days—forty pages of Amendments were delivered, and this morning twenty pages. With regard to the reporting of the Debates of the House, a great improvement has taken place since the new contract was entered into, in the speedy delivery of the reports, but with regard to the character of the reporting I am not able to express so favourable an opinion. The right hon. Gentleman said in June that the new contract was on precisely the same conditions as the preexisting contract. I was rather sorry to hear it, and my regret has been increased since, because we have still to complain of the inaccurate character of much of the reporting. It is a moot point whether condensed reports would not in the majority of cases be preferable to reports which are verbatim. Condensed reports, however, require a great deal of skill, and skill must be paid for. If we could always ensure that our Debates should be reported in the intelligent and admirable manner in which they appear day by day inThe Times newspaper, we might be more content with condensed reports than we are at present. The most irritating part of it is that reports which pretend to be verbatim are not verbatim at all. They are given in the language of the reporter and not in the language of the speaker. I know some Members who say they cannot take the trouble, in revising the proofs of their speeches, to restore something like the original language they used. I do not know how long this contract is to run. I assume there is no opportunity of making an alteration at the present time, but I hope, if the right hon. Gentleman should be in office when the change is made, that he will see that it is made in the right direction.
There have been in the last few years several changes in the contractors who have undertaken the reporting, and that has led to a change in the system of indexing more than once. I hope that in future there will be greater uniformity in the indexing of the discussions. At the present time there are not a sufficient number of copies of the early Hansards of this year to supply hon. Members who want them. I wish to ask whether the Stationery Office would not reprint some of these earlier numbers.
I express a hope that before the Vote comes on next year the Government will see their way to follow the example set this session by the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, and have duplicate type-written answers to all questions placed in the library for the convenience of Members.
*
That is not a question on the printing Vote.
An hon. Member below the Gangway seemed to raise some question with regard to the treatment of the reporters by the Stationery Office in reference to the handing over their manuscripts. I do not think there is any justification for that complaint. What happened was this. Under the circumstances the Stationery Office were most anxious to assist these reporters in every legitimate way, and therefore they took two steps. In the first place they asked the new contractor to take the reporters on. I do not know how far they were wise in doing so, for I think there is some justification for the complaints of the reporting by the hon. Member opposite. I am bound to say that the condensation of the speeches is not by any means done as well as the House has a right to expect. The reports which profess to be verbatim are not verbatim as a matter of fact. They are in the words not of the speaker, but of the reporter, and in that sense are misleading. It was a very difficult thing to interfere during the present session, as the Stationery Office was anxious that these reporters should be allowed to continue during the remainder of the session. But I am bound to say that the Stationery Office will have to take steps another year to see that the reporting is better done. We have a right to have it done well, because it is a fairly lucrative contract. I believe that with the exception of a few speakers we do not want the speeches at full length or verbatim. In the majority of cases the speeches should be condensed, and in order to get proper condensation we would have to employ reporters capable of doing that work well. With regard to the question of compensating the reporters who have been referred to, I hope the Committee will bear in mind that we ought not to run the risk of creating a very dangerous precedent. In the first place, so far as the contractor himself goes, I do not know that his contract stands in a different position from any other contract made on the part of the Government. It is not pretended that it was not a remunerative contract. It is not pretended that it was not a contract under which the contractor could very well afford, not only to pay good salaries, but to pay them punctually. I do not disguise from the Committee the fact that I believe that the contract is worth £3,000 a year to the contractor. If it is said that the late contractor took it at a price very much below the other tenders, I will tell the Committee exactly what happened. Under the last contract we had paid a subsidy of about £300 a volume for Hansard. To my astonishment, when the tenders were sent in I found that the large firms—whether they had combined together or not I cannot say—but, at any rate, it was a remarkable fact that the tenders of the principal firms were £900, £1,000, and £1,100 per volume. Well, the late contractor, being a foreman engaged by one of these firms, and who had been thoroughly well acquainted with the working of the contract, tendered on his own account at a low rate. We took sureties for the due performance of the contract, and, as I have said, in tendering for a subsidy of £300 per volume, he had admitted that he was able to make a large profit. That was sufficient justification in our case for not accepting the absurd tenders of £900, £1,000, and £1,100 per volume. Now, the new contractors are Messrs. Wyman's, a very responsible firm, who have got very large contracts with the Government, and they have taken over the contract on the same terms as Mr. Bussy. It is a very serious step indeed for the House to say that the responsibility must fall upon the taxpayer and not upon the contractor for the payment of his servants. That is not a rule which would be applied in the case of any other contract, so far as I know, and I therefore ask hon. Members, however anxious they may be to do justice in the case of these men, to recollect that there is no difference between this and any other contract; and if the bad precedent were once set of the Government making good wages and payments due by the Government contractors we should be saddled with an unlimited responsibility. I hope that anything which the Committee in its good nature may wish to do will not be of such a character as to set such a dangerous precedent. After all I believe what was in the minds of many hon. Members who signed the memorial asking that something should be done for these men, was perhaps the thought that these men were brought more closely into relations with the House than the employees of other contractors. There may be something in that view. But even if there is, I cannot see that that would be sufficient justification for such a step. The real question is—and this will have to be treated as an exceptional case—how far these reporters bonâ fide believed they were in the personal service of the House and not of the contractor. That is a question of evidence; and so far as the Government and the Stationery Office are concerned nothing has been said, written, or done which would lead the reporters to take that view. But I will undertake to see these reporters and find out what evidence they are able to afford the Government which would indicate that they had any just reason for supposing that they were in any sense in the employment of the Government. If they establish that case, then it is only right that the House should do something for them. The House is always very generous to those in its employment, but I ask the House to pause before creating a very dangerous precedent. The only ground for doing this is that these men thought they were in our employment. I will see them and go into the facts of the case; and the House may trust me that, if any reliable evidence is brought forward to show that these men had any sound ground to believe they were in the employment of the Government, I will make good what was due to them. But I cannot admit claims without scrutiny. If we are to pay anything, the proper course will be to see what claims are established against the estate in bankruptcy, and to recognise those claims; for I fear that nothing will come out of the estate. With regard to the point raised by the hon. Member for Flint, I do not know that there is any burning anxiety on the part of the House to get the reports of the previous night's debate on the breakfast table each morning, and unless there is a very strong desire on the part of hon. Gentlemen to have these reports produced so early I do not see any advantage in it. As to the Canadian Parliament, I do not think the hon. Member is quite accurate. The Canadian Parliament does not sit so late as the House of Commons, and I am told that the Members of that House do not receive their reports next day. But, however that may be, I cannot meet the hon. Member's views until the House displays a greater disposition to agree with him in the desire to have the reports furnished next day. I think myself that there is a great deal of waste in the printing of the House, that a great deal of printing is done that is not necessary, whether in the Orders of the Day or otherwise, and before next session I will consult with the authorities to see whether it is not possible to prevent some of this unnecessary printing. With regard to the earlier copies of Hansard's Debates for this session, I am afraid the late contractor's bankruptcy may create some difficulty. What we have done is this. We were afraid that, as there were only a limited number of copies, they might be bought up by outsiders and offered at prohibitive prices. Therefore I instructed the Controller of the Stationery Office to arrange with the Receiver in Bankruptcy to buy up all the printed copies, and these will be distributed in the ordinary way. There are more than enough to meet the claims of those who had given orders in advance: but the full extent of the demand cannot be gauged until the end of the session. I do not think it would be right that Members who have kept Hansard's Debates for a series of years should have to go without their copies: and, therefore, a reprint might be necessary.
*
We know by the examples in our library that it is very difficult to index our own Parliamentary papers; still, allowing for all the difficulties, the indexing of the Hansard Debates is extremely perplexing. But I rise with regard to one or two matters mentioned by the right hon. gentleman the Secretary to the Treasury. With regard to the official reporters, the right hon. gentleman has, I think, gone as near giving a promise to do something for the reporters as it is possible to do. He is disposed to do something if it is not brought up as a precedent in any other contract, and I accept his words as being virtually a promise that he will not only look into this matter but redress the grievance. He asks for evidence that these reporters believed themselves to be in the employment of the House. It seems to me that the use of the phrases during the last four years of "official reporters" and "official reports" is quite sufficient to justify the reporters in the belief that they were in the service of this House, and that was the main point in the mind of the Leader of the Opposition when he signed the memorial on behalf of these persons. With regard to the contract itself, the right hon. Gentleman spoke of its being so much a volume. Did the Treasury make any stipulation as to what should be the contents of a volume, because I notice in recent years some volumes have been brought down to such a size as to be less than a quarter of the size of the earlier volumes.
In the contract there is a definite minimum number of pages per volume fixed. The smallness of these volumes may be due to a difference in the spacing. There has been no alteration in the terms of the contract in respect to the number of pages.
*
With regard to the suggestion of my hon. friend that we should have the official report of the proceedings delivered the morning after those proceedings have taken place, I do not think there is any assembly in the world which sits anything like such a length of time as we do; and in those places where they circulate the official report the next day it is essentially an inconvenient practice, because hon. Members are kept up half the night to correct their speeches for the Press. I am quite sure that any such institution here would be entirely alien to our habits. With regard to the last suggestion, that the amount of printing should be reduced, no doubt it might be reduced; but there is a certain danger in reducing it. All the Members of the House would have to be informed by some careful index as to what the documents were which would not be printed. Even in the large amount of printing concerning private Bills, occasionally matters of considerable public importance are incorporated.
The right hon. Gentleman has expressed some doubt as to the hours of the sittings of the Canadian Parliament and as to the time that members receive the official reports. If the right hon. Gentleman would take the trouble to go to the library, he would see from those official reports the hour at which the Speaker takes the chair and the hour at which the House rises, and he would also see—I dare say very much to his surprise—that the Dominion Parliament very often sits as late as the Imperial Parliament, especially towards the end of the session. In spite of all these difficulties, however, the Dominion Parliament is able to produce the reports at the time I have mentioned. With regard to the time that the members receive proofs of their speeches, I may say that my authority is the hon. Member for South Longford, who occupied a very leading position in the Canadian Parliament for many years, and who may be supposed to know better than anyone in this country what the customs of the Canadian Parliament have been in this respect. I have thought it right to make this explanation, inasmuch as my statement has to some extent been traversed.
Vote agreed to.
4. £3,454, to complete the sum for the Lunacy Commission, Scotland.
5. £2,829, to complete the sum for the Registrar-General's Office, Scotland.
Class Iv
6. £381,793, to complete the sum for the Science and Art Department.
7. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £106,030 (including a Supplementary sum of £3,750), be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1900, for the Salaries and other Expenses of the British Museum, and of the Natural History Museum, including certain Grants in Aid."
I have given notice of a motion for the reduction of this particular Vote, which is not on the Paper. My object in doing so is to draw attention to the unjust manner, as we regard it in Wales, in which Wales is treated in respect to the Museum Grant. This is by no means the first time that this question has been raised in the House, and I may say that on every previous occasion we have had replies of the most favourable character from the Minister in charge of the Vote. It is one in which non-political bodies in Wales take a very great interest. The county councils have, I believe, sent to the Chancellor of the Exchequer resolutions upon the subject, and I venture to hope that those representations, coming from the most influential quarters that we have in Wales, will receive favourable consideration. We think that our educational system in Wales is imperfect so long as we have no proper museum provision, especially in connection with our intermediate schools. Some of the most important collections have been destroyed by fire, and we have lost some of our most valued treasures on that account, and what we ask is that a
AYES.
| ||
| Aird, John | Bagot, Capt. J. FitzRoy | Barton, Dunbar Plunket |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J.(Manch'r) | Bathurst, Hon. A. Benjamin) |
| Anson, Sir W. Reynell | Balfour, Rt. Hn. G.W. (Leeds) | Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H.(Bristol |
| Arnold, Alfred | Balfour, Rt Hn J Blair (Clackm. | Bethell, Commander |
| Arrol, Sir William | Banbury, Frederick George | Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Barnes, Frederic Gorell | Bigwood, James |
national institution should be established in Wales, to which, I am sure, many collectors would be only too delighted to contribute.
*
Order, order! I do not think that this question arises under this Vote. The trustees of the British Museum are confined in their operations to the limits of certain Statutes, and the hon. Member must show that under these Statutes they could start a museum in Wales.
I have always hitherto been allowed to raise this question either under the heading of Science and Art, or under that of the British Museum. I was under the impression that I was taking the proper course by raising the question on the Vote for the British Museum. I will move to reduce the sum for the British Museum by £10,000, on the ground that the provision made for Welsh antiquities, manuscripts, &c., in the British Museum is inadequate, and that that institution ought to collect, as far as possible, all the antiquities relating to Wales, all the valuable manuscripts, and so forth, and place them in one portion of the building, where the Welsh public would be able to consult them, and in that way be able not only to have easy access to the articles of interest to Wales in the British Museum, but also to be able to see them all together. I recognise, of course, that your ruling, Mr. Chairman, has restricted the scope of my remarks very considerably, but I would venture to say that my proposal would be perhaps the essential preliminary to the establishment of a national museum in Wales. I can only assure the right hon. Gentleman that the greatest interest has for many years past been taken in this particular question, that people belonging to all parties are heartily united in its support, and that the requests we have made have been very small and very reasonable.
The Committee divided:—Ayes, 136; Noes, 51. (Division List, No. 337.)
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Goldsworthy, Major-General | Morton, Edw. J. C. (Devonport) |
| Bonsor, Henry Cosmo Orme | Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Murray, Rt. Hn. A.G. (Bute) |
| Boulnois, Edmund | Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir J. Eldon | Murray, Chas. J. Coventry) |
| Brassey, Albert | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Newdigate, Francis A. |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Halsey, Thomas Frederick | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Hanbury, Rt. Hn. Robert Wm. | Pierpoint, Robert |
| Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) | Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale- | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward |
| Carlile, William Walter | Heaton, John Henniker | Purvis, Robert |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) | Hermon-Hodge, Robert Trotter | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne |
| Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. | Hoare, Edw Brodie (Hampstead | Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir M. W. |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm. | Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) |
| Chamberlain, J. Austen (Wore'r | Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Jenkins, Sir John Jones | Savory, Sir Joseph |
| Cochrane, Hon. T. H. A. E. | Johnston, William (Belfast) | Sharpe, William Edward T. |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Kearley, Hudson E. | Sidebottom, William (Derbys.) |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Kimber, Henry | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
| Cornwallis, Fiennes S. W. | Knowles, Lees | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Cox, Irwin Edw. Bainbridge | Lawrence, Sir E. D. (Corn.) | Stanley, Hon. A. (Ormskirk) |
| Curzon, Viscount | Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) | Steadman, William Charles |
| Davies, Sir Horatio D. (Chath'm | Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Swans. | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Sutherland, Sir Thomas |
| Doxford, William Theodore | Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham | Tomlinson, Wm. E. Murray |
| Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Liverp'l) | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Evans, Sir F. H. (South'ton) | Lowe, Francis William | Valentia, Viscount |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward | Lubbock, Rt. Hon. Sir John | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Macartney, W. G. Ellison | Warde, Lieut.-Col. C. E. (Kent) |
| Finch, George H. | Macdona, John Cumming | Williams, Joseph Powell-(Birm |
| Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | MacIver, David (Liverpool) | Wilson-Todd, W. H. (Yorks.) |
| Fisher, William Hayes | M'Arthur William (Cornwall) | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath |
| Fison, Frederick William | M'Crae, George | Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart- |
| Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond | M'Ewan, William | Wylie, Alexander |
| Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Malcolm, Ian | Wyndham, George |
| Flower, Ernest | Mappin, Sir Frederick Thorpe | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Fowler, Rt. Hn. Sir Henry | Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Fry, Lewis | Monk, Charles James | |
| Gibbons, J. Lloyd | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H (City of Lond | Moore, William (Antrim, N.) | |
| Giles, Charles Tyrrell | More, Robt. Jasper (Shropsh.) | |
| Gladstone, Rt. Hon. Herbert J. | Morrell, George Herbert |
NOES.
| ||
| Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N.E.) | Jameson, Major J. Eustace | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Joicey, Sir James | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Bainbridge, Emerson | Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) | Robson, William Snowdon |
| Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) | Kilbride, Denis | Runciman, Walter |
| Billson, Alfred | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumberland) | Souttar, Robinson |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Macaleese, Daniel | Spicer, Albert |
| Caldwell, James | M'Leod, John | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Cameron, Sir C. (Glasgow) | Maddison, Fred. | Ure, Alexander |
| Channing, Francis (Allston) | Morgan, W. Pritchard (Merthyr | Wallace, Robert |
| Curran Thomas B. (Donegal) | Moss, Samuel | Walton, J. Lawson (Leeds, S.) |
| Dillon, John | Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Whiteley, George (Stockport) |
| Donelan, Captain A. | O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Fenwick, Charles | O'Connor, Jas. (Wicklow, W.) | Williams, John Carvell (Notts) |
| Gourley, Sir Edward Temperley | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | Wilson, H. J. (Yorks, W. R.) |
| Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth | Oldroyd, Mark | Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough |
| Hedderwick, Thomas C. H. | Palmer, Sir Chas. M. (Durham | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Herbert Lewis and Mr. Lloyd-George. |
| Holland, Wm. H. (York, W.R. | Perks, Robert William | |
| Horniman, Frederick John | Pirie, Duncan V. | |
8. £6,149, to complete the sum for the National Gallery.
There is an amount of £5,000 for the purchase of pictures in 1893–99. Can the right hon. Gentleman say in what way that expenditure was incurred—what pictures were purchased?
*
was understood to say that two Rembrandts which were valuable pictures had been purchased.
9. £2,981, to complete the sum for the National Portrait Gallery.
I observe that the amount voted for the purchase of pictures in 1898–99 was £1,104, while this year it is £750. May I ask whether there is any particular reason for that decrease?
There is no special reason.
I desire to say a few words in regard to the correspondence which has recently been published with reference to the National Portrait Gallery. I cannot help hoping that before another year Her Majesty's Government will consider as to whether this gallery, which is now so much appreciated by the public, cannot be treated with greater liberality. I am quite aware that there are very great demands upon the Government, but surely at a time when education of all kinds is being so much more appreciated, the artistic side might well be thought of. Perhaps I may be told that the artistic side of education and art itself are adequately represented by the National Gallery. I think then I may say that there is another side to the National Portrait Gallery, and that is the historical interest of it. Whatever may be the case with regard to the National Gallery, which is no doubt a popular gallery and attracts a great number of the public, yet on the whole the National Portrait Gallery appeals to the average citizen as much as, if not more than, the National Gallery. There are, no doubt, a considerable number of persons who value a picture on its artistic side, but there is a far larger class who take an interest in art from a historical point of view. There is another reason why the Government might do something to aid this collection. Up to the present time the national contribution has been, extraordinarily small. Not only is the annual Vote very small in amount, but the gallery itself was provided by the splendid generosity of one individual, so that it cannot be said that the nation has ever provided itself with a gallery of historical art. If Mr. Alexander had not presented at enormous cost that gallery to the nation, this magnificent collection would still be slowly deteriorating as it was for many years in the gallery at Bethnal Green, where the miserable parsimony of successive Governments left it to be gradually destroyed by the action of time. It is perfectly well known that one of the greatest authorities on art we ever had warned the Treasury over and over again that owing to the peculiar position of the gallery at Bethnal Green and the manner in which it was constructed, those pictures were bound to deteriorate year by year. At length, Mr. Alexander came forward, and owing to his generosity the country received this magnificent gift. That being so, the Trustees of the National Portrait Gallery may surely appeal to the Treasury for something more generous to be done in regard to the sum given annually than is now the case. I need not repeat to the House the terms of the almost ludicrous reply, if I may say so, which was given the other day by the Treasury to the letter of Lord Peel The Trustees appealed to the Treasury for a moderate enlargement of the annual sum voted, and Lord Peel, on their behalf, called special attention to the fact that there were certain pictures in the market at that moment which were of very great importance. One of those pictures was a portrait of Her Majesty the Queen, by a distinguished English artist, and pictures of the Queen by English artists are exceedingly rare; another was a picture, of great artistic and also of great historical value, of King Charles I.; and the third was a picture of Queen Henrietta Maria. Those are all of very great interest, both from the point of view of art and of history. The reply, which will certainly be historic but not artistic, appeared to be that these three persons were not of sufficient importance to find a place in the gallery. That is the meaning which might be extracted from the words, although I venture to say it was not intended; but the letter was a most awkward one and exceedingly ill-expressed, and every newspaper from one end of the country to the other burst into what may be called a prolonged peal of laughter over it. I venture to make a most earnest appeal to the Government to consider the position of this gallery. If they study the figures which we can give them, and which are in the possession of the House, they will see that this gallery is becoming more and more appreciated from year to year. A great nation like this, which can afford to vote enormous sums of money for all conceivable purposes, some of which, in my opinion, are of very doubtful value, ought not to grudge the few extra hundreds which the trustees, through Lord Peel, have asked for, in order to buy pictures which very likely may pass out of the country altogether, or if they do not pass out of the country, it will be because of the generosity of some private individual who occasionally comes forward at the last minute and saves a picture of great national interest.
*
What appears to me to be ludicrous in this matter is, not the Treasury letter, but the interpretation which has been placed upon it. By a peculiar form of criticism, which consists in adopting the answer of the Treasury to one request as the answer to another request, it has been made to appear that the Treasury has described Her Majesty the Queen, King Charles I., and Queen Henrietta Maria as persons who were not celebrated in history. In the first instance, the trustees asked for a special grant for the purchase of these three pictures, and that application was declined. Then they asked that their annual grant might be increased by a considerable amount, and they based that request on the ground of the increased cost of artistic pictures which they might desire to add to the gallery. To that a reply was returned to the effect that the intention of the National Portrait Gallery is rather to provide a gallery of portraits of celebrated characters in English history than a gallery of art. The result has been somewhat singular. The trustees of the National Portrait Gallery valued the three pictures to which the noble Lord has referred at very high prices, and I have seen a criticism of their valuation which describes it as quite excessive. As far as I am aware, no picture by Sir David Wilkie has ever reached the price put upon this particular picture by the trustees, and with regard to the other pictures, they are by no means of first-class artistic value. Since making that request to the Treasury, the trustees of the National Portrait Gallery do not now desire to purchase this particular portrait of Her Majesty the Queen, and with regard to the other two pictures of King Charles I. and Queen Henrietta Maria, it is notorious that there is in the National Gallery collection a picture of Charles I. of far greater artistic excellence; while there are pictures already of both these sovereigns in the National Portrait Gallery. That brings me to what is the real point of difficulty. Is the National Portrait Gallery to have its grant increased in order to enable it to bid against the National Gallery for the purchase of works of art in the market? That, I think, would be a ludicrous proposition, and one which the Committee would never sanction. I am informed that there are a good many portraits in the National Portrait Gallery which are by no means of historic importance, many of which have been given by the relatives of persons shortly after their death, and which have been allowed to find a place in the National Portrait Gallery. I would suggest to the noble Lord and his colleagues that they would be doing a useful work if they weeded their gallery of the pictures of persons of no historic importance. I would also make a further suggestion. I think it might be possible to make some arrangements between the trustees of the National Gallery and the National Portrait Gallery, by which the portraits of persons of historical importance in the history of the United Kingdom might be transferred from the National Gallery to the National Portrait Gallery. That would be greatly to the advantage of the National Portrait Gallery, and would stamp it as the national collection of portraits rather than of works of art. If an arrangement of that sort could be made, I should be quite prepared to consider, on the part of the Government, an application for the increase of the funds at the disposal of the trustees of the National Portrait Gallery, by which, if necessary, they might, from time to time, purchase valuable portraits of celebrated personages in the history of the United Kingdom, because then they would not be in competition with the trustees of the National Gallery. I hope I have not detained the Committee too long in explaining what seems to me to be the real difficulty.
In reply to what has fallen from the Chancellor of the Exchequer upon the general question of the position of the gallery, I can assure the right hon. gentleman that the points to which he has alluded have been present over and over again in the minds of the trustees of the National Portrait Gallery. I quite agree that some years ago there was a tendency on the part of the then trustees of the National Portrait Gallery to buy pictures which, from the historical and artistic point of view, combined, were not altogether worthy of the collection. I must also add that the pictures which come within that criticism are not those of personages recently deceased, and in this respect the Chancellor of the Exchequer is wrong. We have a rule, which we can only depart from by special arrangement, that we do not buy pictures of persons recently deceased. The whole of the pictures which are on our walls of persons recently deceased are pictures which have been given to us, and which have cost us nothing at all. We have had, for instance, a magnificent gift of pictures by that famous artist, Mr. Watts. I do not think anybody desires that we should refuse to accept such a magnificent gift as that. In regard to the question of a joint arrangement, I join with every single word which the right hon. Gentleman has said, and if he can persuade the authorities of the National Gallery to enter into any such arrangement I am sure nobody will be more delighted than the trustees of the National Portrait Gallery. So far as I can recollect, whenever any suggestion of that kind has been made by the trustees I do not think it has ever been received in a friendly spirit by the trustees of the National Gallery, for they do not like to denude their walls of pictures, some of which are the finest works of art, and they are determined to keep them there. I am quite willing to grant that from a commonsense point of view there are certain absurdities in these two galleries, which are door to door and back to back, occasionally appearing to compete with one another; but I must deny that under the present management it can be shown that the two galleries have driven up prices one against the other. If the right hon. Gentleman will examine carefully into this question, and put himself in communication with the trustees, he will find that they have had present in their minds all those points he has mentioned.
Vote agreed to.
10. £6,000, to complete the sum for the Wallace Collection.
11. £67,700, to complete the sum for Universities and Colleges, Great Britain, and Intermediate Education, Wales.
12. £4, to complete the sum for London University.
13. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That a sum, not exceeding £701,861, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900, for Public Education in Scotland, and for Science and Art in Scotland."
I desire to draw attention to the refusal of the School Board for Kilmalcolm to provide school accommodation for the 900 children who are inmates of the Quarrier Homes at Bridge-of-Weir. Mr. Quarrier considers that he is entitled to have the children in his homes educated at the public schools. He asked the School Board authorities to admit these children into the public schools, but they have refused to do so, and in this action they have been backed up by the Scotch Education Department, and that is what I desire to protest against. I asked the Lord Advocate the other day a question with regard to an exactly similar case in another parish, where there is a home maintained by the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, and in that home there are sixty or seventy children from all parts of Scotland. Now these children are educated at the Board school, and so far from there being any objection to them, the authorities are very glad to have them, because they find that the grant from the Imperial funds for their education pays all the expenses which they are put to. In the parish to which I allude it was necessary to enlarge the school in order to accommodate these children; but in the case to which I refer no such necessity exists, and Mr. Quarrier is willing to send the children to the school, but the authorities will not receive them. The result has been that since the middle of April last these children have been receiving absolutely no education. The excuse made by the Lord Advocate is that the Department do not think it is fair that these children should receive their education at the expense of this parish; but it is equally hard in other parishes where public institutions of this kind have been founded. I maintain that, as the law does not impose upon any other body except the School Board the duty of educating children, and as education is made compulsory by law, the School Board is bound to educate these children. The law takes no cognizance of Mr. Quarrier; it cannot compel him to educate these children. An offer has been made by the Education Department to pay for these children if Mr. Quarrier would submit his schools for examination; but Mr. Quarrier has a conscientious scruple to earning grants, and he has never availed himself of his right to obtain educational grants. The law cannot compel him to accept them, but the law does give the Department power to provide for the education of these children, and in leaving the matter in its present deadlock the Department is grossly neglecting its duty. I do not believe there would be any hardship on the parish if these children went into the public schools, because they would earn quite sufficient to defray every cost to which the School Board would be put in providing for their education. But there is a much greater obstruction than the question of expense. The parish concerned is a favourite residential district, and a number of genteel people send their children to the board schools, and they do not like their children coming into contact with Mr. Quarrier's waifs and strays. Such action is contrary to the whole principle of education in Scotland. Mr. Quarrier is a ratepayer, but the law does not demand that a man should be a ratepayer before he can have his children educated, or even that the children should be his own, because if a man has charge of children and they are not sent to school he is liable to be punished. The excuse put forward on behalf of the Department is absolutely flimsy and unsatisfactory, and I must protest against the elaborate show which is being made of care for secondary education, when such an elementary duty as the education of these children is so absolutely neglected and repudiated by the Department. I beg to move the reduction of the Vote by the sum of £1,000.
Motion made, and Question proposed—
"That a sum, not exceeding £700,861, be granted for the said Service."—(Sir Charles Cameron.)
There is really not the slightest justification for the statement of the hon. Baronet that the Department has been in any way supine in this matter, or that they have made a flimsy excuse. The position is a very peculiar one. Of Mr. Quarrier I do not wish to say anything, except that he seems to be a gentleman whom it is difficult to get to give way when he has once made up his mind. Mr. Quarrier collected a large number of what the hon. Baronet calls waifs and strays and placed them in what after all is a little country parish. All of a sudden, and moved thereto by the fact that a legal decision had been given for which no one was specially responsible—it being merely a decision of the courts putting in force the law of the land—Mr. Quarrier announced that these 900 children would have to be educated at the Board schools.
Mr. Quarrier stated that he would provide for the education of the children as long as he was not rated.
But it was not possible for the local body to grant him an exemption from rates. As far as educating these 900 children at the Board schools is concerned, that is physically impossible, as the accommodation is not equal to it. The School Board, rightly or wrongly, contend that there is no absolute duty on them, under the circumstances, to take these 900 children. An application was made to the Department, and, as the hon. Baronet is aware, the Department made an offer to Mr. Quarrier that if he would continue to educate these children as before they would be perfectly prepared under the condition of inspection to admit his school to a full share of the grant from public schools. Mr. Quarrier did not see his way to accept the offer, and the Department is confronted with the refusal of Mr. Quarrier on the one hand, and with the asseveration of the School Board on the other that they are not legally liable for the education of these children. I am not going to say now what the ultimate decision of the Education Department may be. What I do want to tell the Committee is that the matter is not such plain sailing as the hon. Baronet thinks. He seems to imagine that there is nothing more to do except to provide new schools for the education of these children, but then Mr. Quarrier might say, "No; I have changed my mind. I will educate the children myself again." It is not a simple question, but a question which has to be worked out very carefully. It is a question in which the Department cannot be forced. Negotiations have been going on with the School Board, and also with Mr. Quarrier. I can assure the hon. Baronet that the matter will be carried to an issue. The Department is in no way responsible for Mr. Quarrier choosing to raise the whole question by suddenly stopping the education of these children instead of raising it by procedure at law.
The law in Scotland provides for the education of all children. The right hon. Gentleman says that Mr. Quarrier brought about a crisis by suddenly stopping the education of these children, but before that I asked a question of the right hon. Gentleman on the subject and he informed me that the case did not arise, whereupon Mr. Quarrier brought it to an issue by marching the children to the school. The case has now been running on for nearly four months, and while the Education Department are deliberating these children are growing up absolutely without education.
I am exceedingly glad the hon. Baronet has moved the reduction of the Vote. I only regret the hon. Member for West Renfrewshire, in whose constituency the district concerned is, is not present to give us his advice. This is a matter which is exciting almost as great an interest in Scotland as the case of Dr. Lamont, and may lead to an equal scandal. I may say, without exaggeration, that Mr. Quarrier is a man whose charity and benevolence are almost worldwide, and the outcome of his self-sacrificing labours is that 900 children are left for four months without any education at all. The right hon. Gentleman said that Mr. Quarrier was a difficult man to persuade. I am glad that he is, when he realises that he is right, and I hope that all Scotchmen when they realise they are right will not allow themselves to be persuaded they are wrong. Taking into consideration that a great many buildings and institutions such as Volunteer drill-halls, churches, and so on are exempt from rates, I think the regulations might have been somewhat relaxed in this case, at any rate until it was settled. The Lord Advocate says that Mr. Quarrier might have raised this question in a court of law. That is the old story—the weak having to bear the expenses against the strong. It is the most extraordinary idea of fairplay that I can imagine, that an appeal to the law should be made by the weaker rather than by the stronger party. The stronger should give way pending a settlement of the question; and then we would not see 900 children going without education. I intend to support the reduction of the Vote.
Legal proceedings have nothing to do with the question. As regards the other matters, the hon. Gentlemen suggested that there should be a stretching of regulations, but there are no regulations to stretch to meet the views of hon. Members. The matter does not concern the administration of any Government Department.
I know Mr. Quarrier's homes, and I admit the good work he has done; but I do not feel myself entirely in accord with what has been said by previous speakers. I think Mr. Quarrier has put himself in a false position. I know it is impossible to make an exception in the case of a charitable institution in the matter of rates. If a concession is made to one a hundred would claim it, and a good deal of embarrassment would ensue. I think Mr. Quarrier was wrong in fighting the question of rates. Of course, Mr. Quarrier is a poor man, and cannot fight the question in the Courts himself; but we must not forget that he has a large and influential backing, and there would not have been the slightest difficulty in finding the money. Mr. Quarrier made a mistake in stopping the education of these children. That was not a Scotch proceeding, and he has raised the question in an objectionable way. The fact remains, as the hon. Baronet says, that although the Scotch people are so very jealous in regard to educational matters, 900 Scotch children are at present not being educated in these schools. I am exceedingly glad to hear that there is a hope that this state of things will not long continue.
Question put.
The Committee divided:—Ayes, 66; Noes, 141. (Division List, No. 338.)
AYES.
| ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N.E. | Joicey, Sir James | Perks, Robert William |
| Asher, Alexander | Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. J. B. (Clackm. | Kearley, Hudson E. | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Billson, Alfred | Kilbride, Denis | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cumb'l'nd | Robson, William Snowdon |
| Caldwell, James | Lewis, John Herbert | Runciman, Walter |
| Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal) | Lloyd-George, David | Sinclair, Capt. J. (Forfarshire) |
| Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) | Macaleese, Daniel | Souttar, Robinson |
| Dalziel, James Henry | M'Donnell, Dr. M. A. (Qn's C.) | Spicer, Albert |
| Dillon, John | M'Crae, George | Steadman. William Charles |
| Donelan, Captain A. | M'Leod, John | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Fenwick, Charles | Maddison, Fred | Wallace, Robert |
| Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond | Mappin, Sir Frederick Thorpe | Walton, J. Lawson (Leeds, S. |
| Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Warner, Thos. Courtenay T. |
| Gourley, Sir Edw. Temperley | Morgan, W. P. (Merthyr) | Whiteley, George (Stockport) |
| Harwood, George | Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Hayne, Rt. Hon. Chas. Seale- | Moss, Samuel | Williams, J. Carvell (Notts.) |
| Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth | Norton, Captain Cecil W. | Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R. |
| Hedderwick, Thos. Chas. H. | O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) | Wilson, Jos. H. (Middlesbro') |
| Hogan, James Francis | O'Connor, J. (Wicklow, W.) | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Holland. Wm. H. (York, W. R. | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Charles Cameron and Mr. Pirie. |
| Horniman, Frederick John | Oldroyd, Mark | |
| Jameson, Major J. Eustace | Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham) | |
NOES.
| ||
| Aird, John | Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir Wm. Hart | Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw. | Mildmay, Francis Bingham |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Monk, Charles James |
| Arnold, Alfred | Finch, George H. | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy |
| Arrol, Sir William | Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Moore, William (Antrim, N.) |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Firbank, Joseph Thomas | More, Robert Jasper (Shropsh.) |
| Bagot, Capt. J. FitzRoy | Fisher, William Hayes | Morrell, George Herbert |
| Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r | Fison, Frederick William | Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford) |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. G. W. (Leeds | Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Murray, Rt. Hon. A. G. (Bute) |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Flower, Ernest | Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry) |
| Barnes, Frederic Gorell | Fry, Lewis | Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Gedge, Sydney | Newdigate, Francis Alexander |
| Bathurst, Hon. A. Benjamin | Gibbons, J. Lloyd | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol | Gibbs, Hn A.G. H.(City of Lond | Pierpoint, Robert |
| Bethell. Commander | Gibbs, Hon. Vicary (St. Albans) | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Giles, Charles Tyrrell | Purvis, Robert |
| Bigwood, James | Gilliat, John Saunders | Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W. |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Goldsworthy, Major-General | Ritchie, Rt. Hn Chas. Thomson |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Robertson, H. (Hackney) |
| Boulnois, Edmund | Gorst, Rt. Hon. sir John Eldon | Round, James |
| Brassey, Albert | Goschen, Rt Hn G. J (St George's | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Savory, Sir Joseph |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Hanbury, Rt. Hon Robert Wm. | Sharpe, William Edward T. |
| Butcher, John George | Heaton, John Henniker | Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbyshire) |
| Carlile, William Walter | Hoare, Edw. Brodie (Hampst'd) | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
| Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) | Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry | Smith, Hn. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Carlile, William Walter | Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil | Stanley Hn. A. (Ormskirk) |
| Cayzer, Sir Charles William | Jenkins, Sir John Jones | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) | Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton | Strauss, Arthur |
| Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. | Johnston, William (Belfast) | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm. | Kimber, Henry | Sutherland, Sir Thomas |
| Chamberlain, J. Austen (Wore'r | Knowles, Lees | Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Ox. Univ.) |
| Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Lawrence, Sir E. Durning (Corn | Tomlinson, W E. Murray |
| Charrington, Spencer | Lawrence, W. F. (Liverpool) | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Clare, Octavius Leigh | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) | Valentia, Viscount |
| Cochrane, Hn Thos. H. A. E. | Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn. (Swans.) | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. | Warde, Lt.-Col. C. E. (Kent) |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Long, Col. C. W. (Evesham) | Williams, J. Powell- (Birm.) |
| Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W. | Long, Rt. Hn. W. (Liverpool) | Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks) |
| Cox, Irwin Edw. Bainbridge | Lowe, Francis William | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath |
| Curzon, Viscount | Lowles, John | Wylie, Alexander |
| Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh | Lubbock, Right Hon. Sir J. | Wyndham, George |
| Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) | Lucas-Shadwell, William | Wylie, Marmaduke d'Arey |
| Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Macartney, W. G. Ellison | |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Macdona, John Cumming | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Doxford, William Theodore | MacIver, David (Liverpool) | |
| Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | M'Ewan, William | |
Original Question put, and agreed to.
14. £2,000, to complete the sum for the National Gallery, etc., Scotland.
15. £621,117, to complete the sum for Public Education, Ireland.
I wish to direct the attention of the Committee to a very great abuse that has arisen in connection with public education in Ireland. There are three or four extremely important questions which we have been anxious to bring under the notice of the Committee, and which we have been urged to bring forward by various parties interested in public education in Ireland. We made various appeals to the Government to give us another day for the discussion of the Irish Votes. The limit of time has been cut down this year to three days, instead of the four which were allowed us in the first year after the new rule as to Supply was introduced. The consequence is, that several of the largest and most important of the Irish Votes have been thrown over till this evening. This extremely important Vote for Public Education in Ireland really ought to have had a whole night in itself. I am not prepared to discuss the Vote to-night, for there is no adequate time to deal with it. Another reason which induces me to take this course, is that the large body of Irish Members had given up the hope of the Vote being discussed, and returned to Ireland. It is purely accidental that even a few of us are here on the present occasion, for we had no assurance that even a few hours would be given to the Vote to-night. I abstain, therefore, from entering into the question, and have risen only for the purpose of protesting against the treatment given to Irish supply this year.
Vote agreed to.
16. £560, to complete the sum for Endowed Schools Commissioners, Ireland,
17. £1,300, to complete the sum for the National Gallery of Ireland.
18. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That a sum, not exceeding £2,450, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1900, for a Grant in Aid of the Expenses of the Queen's Colleges in Ireland."
We had this year a very full discussion on the Queen's Colleges, which occupied an entire night. I only desire to make a few observations in order to protest against this Vote, and I will take a Division against it. We have had promises and declarations from Ministers with regard to this whole question of University Education in Ireland, which, I regret to say, have been departed from. In the speech of the First Lord of the Treasury during the debate this year on this question of the grievances of Irish Catholics, and the shameful oppression of the Irish Catholics in regard to University Education, a retrograde step has no doubt been taken. So far as we can judge from the answers of Ministers, we are now further removed from a hope of a settlement than we were twelve years ago, when a remarkable speech was made by the present Chancellor of the Exchequer on the eve of the defeat of the Tory Government; and certainly further removed than we were on the eve of the General Election of 1892, when the then Unionist Government gave the Irish Catholics distinctly to understand, not directly by the mouth of the Leader of the Government, but by various subterranean and irregular channels, that if the Unionists were returned to power this Irish grievance would be immediately dealt with. Now, the First Lord of the Treasury himself has gone so far on this question as to declare, in so many words, that if the Unionists could not settle this grievance, their moral claim to govern Ireland was severely shaken; and he conveyed the impression, in a great and remarkable speech a year ago last January, that he felt that the claim of this Parliament to be able to govern Ireland as well as a native Parliament could do, would be shattered and destroyed if this Parliament and Unionist Government were unable to redress this grievance. The First Lord of the Treasury, in the discussion on this matter six weeks ago, seemed to be under the impression that I was discouraging his efforts, and was ungrateful to him as an Irish Catholic for the exertions he had made to convert his party and others in the country to his point of view on Irish University Education. But that is not the fact. I have never spoken on this subject, either in Ireland or in this House, without saying that the Irish Catholics on this particular question, however bitterly we may differ from him on other questions, owe him a great debt of gratitude. But there is a limit to patience, and though we fully recognise the exertions of the right hon. Gentleman, and admire the eloquence with which he has stated our case, we do say that the time has come when the Government ought to declare their policy more specifically and categorically than they have hitherto done. The shadow of another General Election is deepening over us, and we are entitled to ask the Government what is their policy on this question, which they have over and over again declared to be one of first-rate importance. I say that the position taken up by the Government is indefensible. As I understand it, those leaders of the Government who are most concerned with and have had largest experience in Irish affairs admit that justice is on our side, and that the whole life of Ireland is warped and injured by the present system, in support of which we are now called upon to vote money. That is the opinion of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, of the First Lord of the Treasury, and the present Chief Secretary, and others, who have had any experience, or are or were responsible for the government of Ireland. But while they fully admit that, and have all along admitted it, they are drifting on in this extraordinary fashion. They say that, being a responsible Government, and admitting that it is a question of first-rate importance, they cannot deal with it on ordinary party lines. I say that is not a tolerable position to take, and that no Government ought to be allowed to adhere to it, at all events for a long period of years. They ought to be prepared, it is their duty, and according to all the tradition and practice of English politics, to state frankly to the country, and to the House of Commons, before the next General Election, whether their party and their Ministers are able and willing to grapple with this great question of Irish University Education, if they do not, I do not think they can complain if we dwell strongly on this confession of impotence on their part, as an argument for relegating this question, as well as other great questions of a purely Irish character, to the control of an Irish Legisla- ture. Great as are the differences which divide the Irish Members on some matters, if you relegated this question to a committee of Irish Members, including all sections, it would be settled by a larger majority than any other question could be settled, because we would have the solid vote of the whole of the Nationalist Members. On this question the Irish Members are in a majority of at least six to one. It is a monstrous oppression that the Irish people should be denied the acquisition of a university education. I say deliberately that in the province of education you cannot inflict a greater penalty, or a greater disablement, than to deny the Irish people the advantages of a university education. If I had to choose to-morrow—I do not say this view is shared by all my colleagues—as to whether I should first get a good system of primary education, or secondary education, or university education, I should without hesitation select university education first. I hold that on this question of education it is essential to build from above downwards, and that the greatest evil a country can labour under is a denial of the highest university education. But when we come to look into the future, what is our hope? In my own experience, during the last fifteen years, this question was retrograded. We brought it to an issue three years ago, but it was limited to debates in the House; and a few weeks ago we were assured that it had made progress. Are the Unionists prepared, in order to maintain the Unionist system, that the Irish Catholics should look forward to a boundless future, denied of the advantages which their Protestant fellow subjects enjoy? I know that this demand of ours will not have the sympathy of a great many Members of this House who habitually act with us in a friendly way. I know perfectly well that they hold strong views, which in my judgment are not sound views, and which cannot be logically held, but they hold them conscientiously, and are tying the hands of the Government on this question. I do not believe the main difficulty arises from the Government benches, but from the benches behind. How can the Government justify their position if they are in favour of religious schools? They invoked our aid to maintain religious teaching in the schools of this country, and because we believed in religious teaching in the schools we voted for our opponents, but when the same question is transferred to Irish soil these hon. Gentlemen refuse to support their own Government in conceding the claims of the Irish Roman Catholics. On what logic do those Gentlemen support their action? In England they advocate consistently in season and out of season religious teaching in schools, but when it comes to Ireland, a large section of them take their stand beside the hon. Member for South Belfast, and endeavour to intimidate the Government. In every assistance that is given to the denominational schools we are obliged to admit that there is serious injustice on the whole as regards the children of "non-com.'s" of this country, and many of them have suffered under great difficulties at times, but in Ireland no one can say that anything of that kind is involved. We have made no proposals except the simple proposal of the Government, who have sanctioned the suggestion, that there should be a university in Dublin for Catholics. The First Lord of the Treasury has gone so far as to declare in so many words that if the Unionists cannot settle this grievance their moral claim to govern Ireland is severely shaken. I have always admitted that Irish Catholics owed a debt of gratitude to the First Lord of the Treasury. They fully recognise the right hon. Gentleman's exertions. If hon. Members refer to the speeches and letters of Dr. Hamilton, the best qualified speaker upon the subject, they will find that he points out that such a university is in the interests of higher education, and he urges that so long as the present system is continued the interests of higher education are being sacrificed to the interests of partisanship and religious bigotry. Those of us who have approached this subject from that standpoint and not from the view of religious bigotry, or in a party spirit, have always opposed any agitation to disendow or despoil Trinity College. We have recognised that in Trinity College we possess a great institution of very distinguished history and great traditions, which undoubtedly has done a great deal to uphold in a position of honour in very dark times the name of Ireland in the paths of the higher learning before the world. We are, therefore, not anxious to destroy that institution or to agitate against it, because we want rather to build up than to pull down. But our patience has been badly rewarded. The Bishops of Ireland at their last meeting declared that if there was further delay in dealing with this grievance they would be compelled to call upon the people of Ireland to inaugurate an agitation against Trinity College. It will be a dangerous position of affairs, and a dangerous thing for this country, when that fiat goes forth. The Church of Ireland is very strong, and Trinity College is very strong, and I should be very sorry to agitate against either; but if the Irish Roman Catholics are driven to despair Trinity College will undoubtedly come down. Justice we will have in obtaining that higher education for our people, which we have longed for and which we have fought for from the remote periods of our history. So that it may come about that owing to the perversity on your part, and the stupidity which always obtains in dealing with Ireland, you may bring on Trinity College great misfortune, and drag down education in Ireland to a lower level than that at which it at present stands. You have Mahommedan Colleges, and that does not trouble your conscience in the least. There is a project, preposterous to my mind, to establish a great college at Khartum in which Christianity is not to be taught; but when the English people are asked to place the Irish Roman Catholics on a level of equality with the other portions of the United Kingdom, and to grant an endowment, their consciences rise against the proposal. I warn the Government that before next election they will be forced to make a more specific declaration in this matter, and that if they persist in protestations of impotence they will thereby give a great impetus to the demand for Home Rule.
thought that the Irish had some ground of complaint against the Government in respect that they were led to hope, from communications by subterranean channels, that a Unionist Government would deal with Roman Catholic University education.
I never made any such communication.
was quite aware that the Chief Secretary believed that the allegation was unfounded, but it was not.
I believe it to be entirely unfounded.
That was not the opinion of the hon. Member for East Mayo.
When I referred to communications by subterranean and irregular channels, I had in my mind, for one thing, a well-remembered speech of the hon. Member for South Tyrone before the election of 1892, when he declared to the electors that if a Unionist Government was returned the subject would be dealt with.
, continuing, said at all events the unholy alliance seemed to have come to an end, or it would come to an end when his Irish friends thoroughly appreciated the fact that they would get nothing from Her Majesty's Government. Nonconformists were opposed to any scheme of Roman Catholic University education, because it was no part of the duty of the community to give money for religious instruction. How absurd it was for Irish Members to argue that English Nonconformists had no right to express an opinion upon Irish religious questions, when they were the very men who came forward to help the Government to saddle upon English Nonconformists an obnoxious system of elementary education! This question was no nearer a solution than it was years ago. A Liberal Government, supported as it was to such a large extent by the Nonconformists of England, Scotland, and Wales, would never consent to establish and endow a Roman Catholic University for Ireland.
It may be regrettable that the people of Ireland are not Dissenters—not even Wesleyan Methodists; but they are not, and, being in the main either Catholics or Presbyterians, they have somewhat different views on the education question from those of my hon. friend; and if they have the right to differ on religion, surely they are entitled to differ with regard to a question with which religion is inextricably mixed up—namely, the particular form of university education. My hon. friend is still angry with the part the Irish Members took on the voluntary schools question; but he has apparently forgotten that our attitude was largely regulated by the fact that there is a very considerable Catholic population in this country, and that the legislation of the Government dealt not only with their educational position, but also with their strongest and profoundest religious convictions. We should have been untrue to our convictions if we had not stood up for the rights of conscience of our own people in supporting the educational policy of Her Majesty's Government. I desire to discuss the question from a non-partisan point of view. I myself am an old student and graduate of Queen's College, Galway, and whatever poor attempts I have made with regard to education were largely owing to that college. I desire to state the good as well as the bad side of these colleges. Let me first say that in Ireland the university system has this enormous advantage over the university system in this country—that the colleges are brought home to the doors of the poor. I certainly should not have had the least chance of getting a university education if I had been born in this country; therefore, I hold that one of the first things we must consider if we are to bring the university system within reach of the people is that we should have universities largely distributed over the country. I desire to bear testimony to the extraordinary ability, and to the genius even, of some of the men who were at the head of the Queen's Colleges. I am glad to note that Professor D'Arcy Thompson is still there, and I must say that whatever love I have for literature I, largely owe to the fact that I had the happiness and privilege of being one of that gentleman's pupils. The men who formed the Queen's Colleges formed the idea that by bringing together the youth of different classes and creeds and races at the most susceptible period of their lives they would raise up another and a. broader-minded generation of Irishmen, and get over the racial and religious difficulties. This is the idea of some; others have different views. They think that every means should be adopted, for undermining the faith of the majority of the Irish people. Have their ideas been realized? Splendid buildings have been erected and equipped; and yet they do not touch the merest fringe of the people. What is the use of those splendid buildings and of the broad and generous views on which they are founded, if the people for whom they are intended obstinately remain outside? It is preposterous that at this time of day we should be discussing the question whether a nation, predominantly and intensely Catholic, should not have the system of education which it desires because the Protestants of England do not think it good for them. If that is not religious bigotry and intolerance I am unable to understand the meaning of the words. The hon. Member demanded that because he was Protestant and England was Protestant, Ireland should not have Catholic education.
I never said anything of the sort. You can have as much Catholic education as you like, but not at the public expense.
I welcome the interruption. A large amount of what in its essence is Protestant education is maintained at the public expense in connection with Dublin University. Therefore we have this extraordinary contradiction in Ireland—that Protestantism, the religion of the minority and of the rich, is endowed at the expense of the State, while the education of the Catholic majority is left without any State aid. It has been suggested that we should level down by spreading the endowments of Trinity College over the whole of Ireland, but that is a policy that would be as bitterly opposed by Protestants as by Catholics in Ireland. I would further point out to the hon. Member that we have more distinctly and truly Catholic education in this country, amid the Protestant majority, than we have in Ireland.
University education?
No, but in the elementary schools. Is it not grotesque that the liberty which we give to Catholics in Protestant England we refuse in Ireland? The Queen's Colleges, I admit, have done a great deal of good so far as education is concerned, but I trust before the close of this Parliament, in which those in favour of a close union of religion and education are in such an overwhelming majority, Ireland may be no longer left with this grievance unreformed, and that that country, which is rich only in the ability of her sons, will not be allowed to see two more generations pass without enjoying the supreme advantage of university education.
*
I do not complain of the hon. Member for East Mayo that he has availed himself of the opportunity to make an impassioned and able appeal on behalf of Ireland for the creation of a Roman Catholic University. It seems to me that after the declaration of the Duke of Devonshire in another place it required something to rehabilitate the question in this House. What I complain of is that the hon. Member has endeavoured to convince the House, not to-night, but on a former occasion, that nearly all the public bodies in this country are in favour of the demand: in fact, the statements which he made on a former occasion would have led the Committee to suppose that it only required a little more courage on the part of the present Government, and then a Roman Catholic University would soon come into existence. The hon. Member has conspicuously left out of account the opposition he must encounter at the hands of the Nonconformists of this country. I can confirm the statements which have been made by my hon. friend the Member for Louth in regard to the unanimity, as well as the strength, of the feeling which exists among the Nonconformists of this country in regard to this question. They are resolved that, whatever an Irish Parliament may do, should one ever come into existence, they will resist to the utmost any attempt on the part of the Imperial Parliament to create such a university. The hon. Member for East Mayo and the hon. Member for the Scotland Division argued as though there were not two sides to the question, and no doubt they think Nonconformists a narrow, bigoted and intolerent set of persons. In my opinion it is quite possible for Nonconformists to defend and to vindicate their position by an array of arguments which is entitled to some respect. I assume the House will not devote another evening to this question, especially as in less than three hours the guillotine is to fall on all the remaining Votes in Supply. I wish, however, to refer to one remark of the hon. Member for East Mayo. The hon. Member has represented the opponents of this scheme as being ready ruthlessly to sacrifice the interests of higher education. On the contrary, the opponents of this project think that they are safeguarding the interests of higher education by offering resistance to any of the proposals which would put university education in the hands of ecclesiastics of the Roman Catholic Church.
We have never made any such proposal.
*
The First Lord of the Treasury, in a very notable speech which he made on a former occasion, did two things; however, he failed to do some other things. He made it quite clear to me, if it had not been made clear before, that a sectarian university is a contradiction in terms. He submitted to the House certain safeguards and restrictions the object of which was to mitigate, if not to put an end to, Protestant opposition to this proposal. But he did not say, from the beginning of his speech to the end, that the scheme which he then adumbrated had received the consent of the heads of the Irish Church. For aught we know to the contrary, if the Government were to introduce a Bill framed in accordance with the speech of the right hon. Gentleman, that proposal would be rejected by the heads of the Roman Catholic Church. The right hon. Gentleman, with all his desire to provide safeguards and restrictions, did not for a moment suggest that the government of the university should be otherwise than in the hands of the heads of the Roman Catholic Church, or of members of the Roman Catholic Church, lay or ecclesiastic. I do not remember that the right hon. Gentleman went so far as to suggest that the governing body of the university should be a mixed body. If a Catholic University is to be in the hands of ecclesiastics, it follows as a matter of course that the government of that university will be in accordance, as far as possible, with the views of the ecclesiastics. They will put the interests of the ecclesiastics first, and the interests of education second. I venture to express the opinion that no scheme for the creation of an Irish Roman Catholic University will be accepted by the Roman Catholic Church unless it gives to it sole control over its management. That, I contend, is a contradiction in terms. A university, to be worthy of its name, must be unsectarian and comprehensive. I desire to enter my caveat against the assumption of the hon. Member for East Mayo, that only a few and very insignificant number of persons are opposed to the scheme which he so ardently advocates.
The hon. Member for Mansfield states that the Catholics in this House regard the Nonconformists of England as a narrow, bigoted lot of persons. In my opinion, however, there is no difference in principle between the point of view from which Nonconformists look at this educational problem and that from which Catholics look at it. Nonconformists are in favour of lay education in the public schools, because they are so small a body that they could not have schools of their own, and because, also, they are afraid that if religion were taught in schools it would be the religion of the Established Church, and that their children would be saturated and swamped in the views of episcopacy and establishment. Consequently they do as a minority what Catholics in Ireland do as a majority. Nonconformists will not have schools supported by the State for their children with what I believe is called a common denominator of Christianity—something that all believe in, such as the devil and hell. Animated by that spirit, Nonconformists cannot see any other means of preventing their children getting submerged in Episcopalian Protestantism except by demanding a purely lay education. Will anyone tell me that if in the morning England were to wake up Nonconformist, or half-Nonconformist, every Nonconformist minister and every Nonconformist chapel and conventicle would not at once insist on beating the drum in favour of sectarian schools? (Opposition cries of "No.") What do I say to that denial? I say, "Sour grapes." You wish to protect your children from the contagion of Episcopalian Protestantism, and you say, "We will insist on having schools in which no religion at all shall be taught, but merely the dry bones and skeletons." The Catholics look at the matter from exactly the same point of view, but they approach it from a different standpoint. The Catholics say, "Religion is so important to us, our faith is so dear to us, that we would rather have no education at all than that our children should be taught in Protestant schools." That is our position. You want the education first, and in order that your children may get the education, you say, "Oh, let religion go and be hanged." That is really what it comes to. You say, "We will have an undenominational Christianity." We say, "We will have our children taught their religion, even though they are taught nothing else." That being so, we have refused to go into those schools which are Protestant. You send your children to those schools, though you know they are Protestant, taking all the risks of infection, as you believe it to be. Contrast your position in denying us in Ireland this education. Within a stone's-throw of this House you will find that the poor, by their pence, have not only erected a temple of God, but have provided a little school where they keep themselves apart, having their own faith and their own masters and their own education. Compare that position with those who are able to get a million guineas from Methodism in the course of six or eight months, and ask yourselves which is the nobler position, and which is the greater or the poorer. What is our position in Ireland, where the Catholics are not in a minority, but in a majority? We claim that if we had the country in our own hands we would oppress no religion, but would give equally to each what was meet to its demands in the matter of religion. And we are so animated with the desire of keeping our children pure and undefiled from a faith in which we do not believe, that we will abstain from sending them into schools where that religion is taught. It is said that if we have this university we must get it, but not at the public expense. Will any man show me how a university education can be had in Ireland except at the public expense? I am old enough to remember—though it is thirty years ago now—how the Catholic bishops went begging and craving to this House—for what? They did not ask you then for a university education at the public expense, they asked you merely for a charter. They said, "Give us a charter for our universities." But Protestant England—though the Catholics did not ask for a penny, but only for a roll of parchment and a bit of sealing-wax upon it— refused the Catholic bishops and the people of Ireland that charter. Therefore it is idle at this time of day to suggest that we should not do this at the public expense, when the first essential of a university is that it should get State recognition of some sort. The hon. Member opposite turns the argument the other way. I am bound to say I think the position of Nonconformists in this matter towards us is entirely different from the position of the hon. Member for South Belfast. I believe the Nonconformists of England are not bigoted. I believe they desire to extend us this right. But they feel that if they do so they would be cutting away the ground from under their own position in England in relation to their own claims. It is not that they would seek to deny us our rights, but they are afraid of inflicting an injury to their own position. I respectfully say there is no reason why we should be sacrificed because of their political or religious necessities. The hon. Member for South Belfast is animated by an entirely different view in his opposition to a Catholic university education. His position is that the Pope and the Scarlet Lady are practically Siamese twins. It has been said the difference between a Calvinistic Presbyterian and a Presbyterian proper, was that the Calvinistic Prebyterian believed that the Catholic was destined to be damned, whereas the Presbyterian proper believed that he would be damned anyhow. I do not know whether the hon. Member for South Belfast occupies one or both of those positions. To-night he turns round and says in two or three interruptions, "Oh, but your Pope allows you to send your children to Oxford and Cambridge." But what is the position? The Catholics in England are in a minority, and a very small minority. Those who acquire higher university education are generally the sons of people of high lineage and of large means, who can afford not only to pay for this university education, but to pay for the conditions which the Pope has prescribed as ancillary to their children going to Oxford or Cambridge, namely, that they shall pay for residence in a hall or college presided over by some dignitary or ecclesiastic of the Catholic Church; so that, although they are at Oxford and Cambridge, they are at the same time under strict supervision so far as religious education is concerned. But with regard to elementary schools, wherever Catholics are sufficiently numerous they maintain a school, and therefore it is idle to contend that the case is the same. In Ireland there is a further reason, and one which does credit both to the Pope and to the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge. I read recently an account of a visit to Ireland of a Protestant dignitary, and he was describing the difference between the religious life of the Irish and the English Protestant Churches. He said that it seemed to him that the Protestantism taught in Ireland was of such a wholly different character as to be almost a different religion. For 300 years has not the object of Trinity College been to subvert the faith and to sap the integrity of the Catholic Church? The whole system had that object, and the Education Code was established with the same view; and, as the hon. Member for the Scotland Division said, so recently as the days of Archbishop Whateley there was an absolute confession under the hand of those who established the system that its object was proselytism and the perversion and subversion of the faith of the Catholic Church. Therefore, for my part, even though the Pope had not prescribed these conditions, I would approach the question of going to Oxford or Cambridge from an entirely different point of view—and for this reason. As a rule, Englishmen care very little about religion. In Oxford or Cambridge I am quite satisfied that the professors do not care a dump of what religion a man is, and the last thing any of them would seek to do would be to pervert the mind or attack the faith of any gentleman under their control. That comes of the liberality of thought which prevails in this country; that comes because you have all your political problems settled in this country; that comes from the ingrained and long descended habit of thought which has been cultivated in Tory and Liberal circles for generations. But is it the same in Ireland? In the opinion of the Member for South Belfast the Battle of the Boyne only occurred yesterday. He is as militant over those dead bones and feels as keenly about the matter as though the bloodstains were still fresh. That is the opinion which prevails, and, forsooth, we are to send our children to be instructed by a professoriate which is mainly manned by gentlemen holding such opinions. I remember hearing it said a long time ago that a distinguished surgeon in Trinity College when giving his lectures on anatomy, commenced by saying, especially if Catholics were present, "Gentlemen, I have dissected many subjects, but I have never yet come across the human soul." These things spread and percolate amongst the Catholic population. There is an instinctive dread—it may be unreasonable, but there is an instinctive dread—amongst the masses of the people of Ireland, that the object for which Queen Elizabeth founded Trinity College is still in vogue, even in the days of Queen Victoria—viz., the subversion of the Catholic people. If the Nonconformists are so anxious for equal education amongst all people in Ireland, why is it that from these benches we do not have continual motions for the destruction of the Divinity School at Trinity College? I never hear the hon. Member for Mansfield, or the hon. Member for Louth, get up to ballot for a Tuesday in order to attack this abominable system, under which thousands of pounds of public money has been devoted to sending forth youths equipped in Episcopal doctrine to act as the clerics of Protestant ascendancy in Ireland. I have never heard them say a word about it. They are quite satisfied that this Divinity School should prevail there. ("No.") I have no doubt the hon. Member who says "No" is such an iconoclast that if he could, without any great trouble of body or mind, pull down even Episcopalian Protestanism, he would pronounce an opinion in that sense, but we see no active efforts on the part of the Church militant on this side of the House to destroy the form of the Church militant. They are quite satisfied to allow it to remain, and, speaking for myself, I also am quite satisfied. I do not desire for one moment to deprive them of this. For my part, I never saw much good derived from the disestablishment of the Church of Ireland. I think it was rather rudely attacked, and the question was very stupidly handled. As far as I am concerned, if the Protestants of Ireland desire to have their Divinity School at Trinity College, so long as I and my children are not asked to attend it, let them have it. What do we ask? Here are we supplying you £8,000,000 of money, some of which is to go to the South Pole looking for icebergs, some to establish an observatory on the top of Ben Nevis, some for shooting the Boers, some for providing an open door in China, some to keep up Buddhism and Hindooism, some to create a college in favour of Mahommedanism in some part of Africa. What do we want? We want about as much money as would build a battleship in order to start this system. It is our own money we ask for. We do not ask for your money. You rob us of £3,000,000 every year, according to the Report of your own Commission. You pack the jury, and then quarrel with the verdict. It has now come to this, that one House will not allow us to found a university, and the other House will not allow us to drain our sewers. It is to that position we are brought to-night in this temple of British liberty. We must not have a university, we cannot even have a corporation; we cannot manage our cattle. Although the Catholics of Ireland have to contend under these unequal conditions, and have to come over here to your Parliament to look after the wants and grievances of their country, yet you hope at the same time to maintain loyalty in the
AYES.
| ||
| Aird, John | Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Gibbs, Hon. V. (St. Albans) |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Charrington, Spencer | Giles, Charles Tyrrell |
| Arrol, Sir William | Clare, Octavius Leigh | Gilliat, John Saunders |
| Asher, Alexander | Clough, Walter Owen | Goldsworthy, Major-General |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Gordon, Hon. John Edward |
| Bagot, Capt. Josceline Fitzroy | Coghill, Douglas Harry | Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir J. Eldon |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r) | Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Goschen, Rt. Hn G J. (St George's |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. G. W. (Leeds) | Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Goulding, Edward Alfred |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W. | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) |
| Barnes, Frederic Gorell | Curzon, Viscount | Greene, H. D. (Shrewsbury) |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Dalkeith, Earl of | Gull, Sir Cameron |
| Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin | Dalziel, James Henry | Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robt. Wm. |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol | Davies, Sir Horatio D. (Chath'm | Hayne, Rt. Hn. Chas. Seale- |
| Bethell, Commander | Dickson-Poynder, Sir J. P. | Hedderwick, Thomas Charles H |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Hermon-Hodge, Robert Trotter |
| Bigwood, James | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Hoare, E. Brodie (Hampstead |
| Billson, Alfred | Doxford, William Theodore | Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick |
| Bond, Edward | Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Hart | Jenkins, Sir John Jones |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw. | Johnstone, William (Belfast) |
| Boulnois, Edmund | Fenwick, Charles | Keswick, William |
| Bousfield, William Robert | Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Kimber, Henry |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Finch, George H. | Lawrence, Sir E. Durning-(Corn |
| Brodrick, Rt Hon. St. John | Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) |
| Bullard, Sir, Harry | Fisher, William Hayes | Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cumb'land |
| Butcher, John George | Fison, Frederick William | Lea, Sir Thomas (Londonderry |
| Caldwell, James | Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond | Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Swans.) |
| Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) | Fitz Wygram, General Sir F. | Lloyd-George, David |
| Carlile, William Walter | Flannerry, Sir Fortescue | Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. |
| Cayzer, Sir Charles William | Flower, Ernest | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) | Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) | Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham) |
| Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. | Fry, Lewis | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Liverpool |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm. | Gedge. Sydney | Lowe, Francis William |
| Chamberlain, J. Austen(Wore. | Gibbons, J. Lloyd | Lowles, John |
| Channing, Francis Allston | Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H. (C. of Lond.) | Macartney, W. G. Ellison |
hearts of the Irish people. When we advocate things that do not affect the Empire or the union, but which would enable our young men to enter your Civil Service, and to obtain distinction through the methods of education, you have some Protestant scruple which is to debar us, and keep us in such a condition as if emancipation had never taken place. Under these circumstances, I say the Emancipation Act is a fraud. The people of Ireland have this small demand. It is a demand which they have persisted in for generations—I may say for centuries—and considering that it is not yet more than eighty or ninety years since you compelled them to go abroad, not merely for religious education, but secular, I do think it is a remarkable thing that in the closing days of this century a sum of one or two millions of money should be denied by this House, in the day of £100,000,000 Budgets, to enable the Irish people to receive that higher education in accord with the system in which they believe, and in satisfaction of their consciences.
The Committee divided:—Ayes, 169; Noes, 26. (Division List, No. 339.)
| Macdonna, John Cumming | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir J. M. |
| Maclure, Sir John William | Richards, Henry Charles | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool | Rickett, J. Compton | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Maddison, Fred. | Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W. | Sutherland, Sir Thomas |
| Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) | Ritchie, Rt. Hn. C. Thomson | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) | Ure, Alexander |
| Monk, Charles James | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs) | Valentia, Viscount |
| Moore, William (Antrim, N.) | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) | Wallace, Robert |
| More, R. Jasper (Shropshire) | Round, James | Walton, J. Lawson (Leeds, S.) |
| Morrell, George Herbert | Runciman, Walter | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford) | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) | Warde, Lt. -Col. C. E. (Kent) |
| Moss, Samuel | Savory, Sir Joseph | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute) | Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard | Williams, J. Carvell (Notts) |
| Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) | Sharpe, William Edward T. | Williams, Jos. Powell- (Birm. |
| Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) | Wilson, H. J. (York, W. R.) |
| Newdigate, Francis Alexander | Sidebottom, W. (Derbyshire) | Wodehouse, Rt Hn. E. R. (Bath) |
| Nicol, Donald Ninian | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) | Wylie, Alexander |
| Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Souttar, Robinson | Wyndham, George |
| Oldroyd, Mark | Spicer, Albert | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Parkes, Ebenezer | Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk | |
| Perks, Robert William | Stanley, Edw. Jas. (Somerset) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
| Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) | Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Purvis, Robert | Steadman, William Charles |
NOES.
| ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E. | Hogan, James Francis | Morgan, W. P. (Merthyr) |
| Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Jameson, Major J. Eustace | O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Jones, William (Carnarvonsh) | O'Connor, J. (Wicklow, W.) |
| Cameron, Sir Chas. (Glasgow) | Kearley, Hudson E. | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) |
| Crilly, Daniel | Kilbride, Denis | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal) | Macaleese, Daniel | Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough) |
| Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) | M'Donnell. Dr. M. A. (Queen'sC | |
| Gourley, Sir Edw. Temperley | M'Dermott, Patrick | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Dillon and Captain Donelan. |
| Harwood, George | M'Leod, John | |
| Healy, T. M. (N. Louth) | Molloy, Bernard Charles | |
Class V
19. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That a sum, not exceeding £227,335, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900, for the Expenses of Her Majesty's Embassies and Missions Abroad, and of the Consular Establishments Abroad and other Expenditure chargeable on the Consular Vote."
*
At this time of the evening, with the shadow of the guillotine hanging over us, there is a desire to discuss as many Votes as we can before the closure, and I shall therefore be very brief in the remarks I propose to make. I gave notice of my intention to move two reductions—to reduce the salary of Sir Arthur Hardinge as Consul-General for Zanzibar, and also on another item to reduce the salary of the same gentleman in respect of British East Africa—but for the convenience of the Committee I intend to take the two proposals together, and move a reduction of the entire Vote. In regard to Zanzibar all we have to say really is that the pace at which emancipation is proceeding, there is not, in our opinion, sufficiently rapid for the honour of the country, and also that the emancipation which has been effected has been accompanied by conditions which we think are in some degree disgraceful. But I shall not dwell upon the Zanzibar portion of the case. As is well known, we believe that the great majority of the slaves in Zanzibar, most of whom are brought from what has now become a British possession, are-illegally held in defiance of the proclamations of the Sultan of Zanzibar issued from time to time under our instructions. In respect of British East Africa certain new facts have come to our knowledge since this matter was last mentioned in. the House. Many of us have had an opportunity of meeting the gentleman who is at the head of the Primitive. Methodist Mission, where certain incidents occurred that have previously been brought to the knowledge of the House. The Foreign Office have on this question somewhat reverted to their earlier attitude, and. we have some complaint against the Under Secretary for having taken up, under the suggestion of Sir Arthur Hardinge, a non possums attitude with regard to any further change. At one moment the late Under Secretary very frankly admitted that the Foreign Office had changed their views. When we produced the warrants by which persons have been returned into slavery by British courts the Foreign Office stated that they had been entirely unaware of the practice of British courts in respect to returning fugitive slaves, and the late Under Secretary stated that under instructions which were given by the Government on the opinion of the Attorney-General, the Foreign Office was going to introduce a complete change of system. Now, Sir, after careful discussion with the gentleman to whom I have referred, all of us who have seen him are as convinced of his perfect truthfulness as we are of that of Bishop Tucker, who originally brought this matter to our knowledge, and I am sure Sir Arthur Hardinge shares that view as to the absolute truthfulness and good faith of the gentleman in question. What does he state? He tells us that besides the Kombe case, there have been other instances of the same description. For instance, one of his mission men was sent to prison in June, 1898, on a charge of luring away slaves from their owners, and facts which have been brought to our knowledge with regard to that charge go to show that that is one of those cases where the House of Commons are quite unaware of what is being done in their name by British courts in British East Africa. As regards the case which was previously brought to the knowledge of the House, the Kombe case, the Under Secretary made certain statements which, according to our present information, are quite opposed to the real facts of the case, as we thought they were at the time they were made, on the information then before us. This is a case, as the Committee will remember, of the return into slavery by the action of a British court of a person who had been ten years in freedom. That person was sent back by British authority to an Arab master, who had no means whatever of recovering that slave but for the intervention of the British court. After investigation we found that Mr. Lloyd, who tried the case, was a finance official, and that he had no experience as a magistrate, that he was entirely ignorant of the native tongue and absolutely dependent on his Arab interpreter. I need hardly say that the Government ought to view with the greatest suspicion the action of a British court in British East Africa, where the legal status of slavery has not yet been abolished, when it involves the return into slavery of persons who have been free for over ten years, after a hearing, before such a magistrate as I have described. On March 21st the Under Secretary made a statement with regard to this case in which he said that these slaves made no objection to returning to their master, that they were desirous of doing so in order to get food, and the master brought the matter into court as he wished to get a formal declaration of his legal right to their services in return for subsistence. The Attorney-General, speaking on that occasion, stated that these three persons were willing to return to their master. All I can say is that, after most careful investigation, we believe that this gentleman's, denial that those are the real facts of the case is one which the Committee may accept. That is all I wish to say with regard to the matter, except that further inquiry into the Indian law leads us entirely to maintain our contradiction of the assurance of the Under Secretary that the state of things in British East Africa is as good in respect of the recognition of slavery as it was in India immediately after 1843. The state of things in India then was very similar to that existing in the colony of Lagos, which was defended by the Secretary of State for the Colonies a day or two ago as being virtually equivalent to the total abolition of the legal status of slavery, and we maintain our view that the Under Secretary cannot justify his opinion that the state of things in India in 1843 was less good than that prevailing in British East Africa. I beg to move.
Motion made, and Question proposed—
"That a sum, not exceeding £277,135, be granted for the said service."—(Sir Charles Dilke.)
*
It is only out of respect to the right hon. Gentleman that I rise to reply. The whole subject was discussed on the last occasion for three or four hours, and not a single new fact has been brought out this evening by the right hon. Gentleman. He himself said he would not discuss the question of Zanzibar, and then he said the process of emancipation ought to proceed more quickly. He has not given us any new cases, nor has he produced any new facts, except that the opinion which Sir Arthur Hardinge gave us as the result of his investigations, and which he gave publicly in his official position, was not borne out by a certain individual who has been over here, and whom the right hon. Gentleman has seen. I have seen neither that individual nor any information tendered by him in writing in support of his statements, and at this moment I am not in possession of anything but just the fact that even now these persons who were sent back to their master deny that they made any objection to that return. I have not the least doubt that there is some difference of opinion as to the facts, but on the other hand I am convinced that the despatch of Sir Arthur Hardinge shows that he had taken great pains to inform himself of the actual state of the facts. The statements made were, we believe, accurately reported to the presiding magistrate by the interpreter, and I do not think it is possible to provide that the English judge should always have a knowledge of the native tongue so as to be able to dispense with an interpreter. In a great number of courts all over the world that is not done, and I am quite certain there is no desire to do any injustice in the matter. Every effort was made to give these persons an opportunity of objecting if they desired to do so, or if they had any fear about returning to their master; they did not propose to lodge any objection at that time; it was found two or three months afterwards that one of these individuals had left his master again, and another had taken service elsewhere. I never felt that this was a particularly strong case on which to attack the government of Sir Arthur Hardinge. I only express the desire we have that the fullest consideration should be given in all these cases, and that escaped slaves should not be returned to their masters except in cases in which it is proved that we should otherwise be breaking the pledges which were given at the time the territory was taken over.
I am sorry this matter has been brought to such a very small issue as whether or not these so-called slaves were willing to go back to their master. It seems very strange, if they were willing, that their master should require to go to the court to make them. It is not a question of willingness or unwillingness; the whole question is whether, in any country in which justice is administered in a court in the name of Her Majesty, the judge or magistrate is seriously to consider whether a particular person belongs to himself or to anybody else. I do not suppose for a moment that in such a territory as Zanzibar we can immediately put down slavery, but putting down slavery by force is one thing, and recognising slavery is another. "When we take possession of a country we may leave the laws undisturbed for a time, but it does not follow that our courts ought to enforce those laws. The enforcement ought to be left to the natives themselves. That is a very different thing from lending the aid of our courts and magistrates to enforce the laws of slavery. This has been mentioned over and over again, and I must say it is intolerable that we should have cases arising time after time in which the old saying, that the moment a slave touched British territory he was free, no longer holds good, but that we should have courts of ours putting laws into operation in order that people may be returned to what are called their "owners." I cannot believe in anybody being the owner of somebody else, and I am sure the Members on the Front Bench hold the same view, and I want them to say that this intolerable state of things should not exist a single day longer.
I think we have some cause of complaint in that the Under Secretary has not taken this matter more seriously. It is not sufficient to ignore a statement simply because it is a repetition of a previous statement. If it was true when first made, and still remains true, it requires an answer. I heard a short time ago, from an undoubted authority, that this law was being administered in Zanzibar in a manner most calculated to prevent it having the effect desired or intended by its authors—that every opposition was placed in the way of poor people in remote parts of the country getting to a magis- trate's court in order to lay bare their case against the slave-owner. These are the allegations, that actually under British government and British authority obstacles are placed in the way of these poor people taking the necessary legal procedure to liberate themselves from their slavery. The right hon. Gentleman ought to say that this is repugnant to British instincts, feeling and sentiment, and that he, as representing the Foreign Office in this House, would take a note of the statement of the right hon. Baronet, and do his best to see that the law is enforced with more energy and with more convenience to the persons seeking this redress than has been the case in the past. The status of slavery ought altogether to be abolished, and the right hon. Gentleman ought to tell us that by the time we reassemble next year much will have been done to meet the views of the people who take a great interest in this subject.
I have another subject to which I wish to call attention on this Vote. I want to refer, not to the slaves in Zanzibar, but to a class of men who are little better than slaves, and who receive very hard treatment from the hands of the present Government, and I want to point out that the Foreign Office is largely responsible for the treatment received. In 1897 I sent a report to the Board of Trade with regard to the position of seamen who are engaged and discharged at the consular shipping offices abroad, and I pointed out that seamen were assaulted in the offices of Her Majesty's consuls, that they were robbed in those offices, and that it was impossible for any seaman to engage in the ports of the United States without the intervention of "crimps" and other low characters, and that the consular officers allowed these "crimps" free access into the consular offices. I stated in that report that I myself had witnessed in New York as many as twenty or twenty-five of these "crimps" in the shipping office where the men were being engaged and discharged. I also stated that a number of shipowners in this country had entered into contracts with "crimps" in New York for the engagement of men, that these "crimps" charged the seamen as much as £3, £4, or £5 as a shipping fee, and that shipowners shared these fees with the "crimps" A number of Members thought my language was very extravagant; they said that the charges I made were very serious indeed, and they were inclined to doubt my assertions. However, in May, 1898, a Report was moved by a Member of this House in regard to the condition of affairs in the consuls' offices abroad, and I find in that Report that Her Majesty's consuls, themselves, in the United States, fully bear out every statement I made. Her Majesty's consul for Philadelphia said that in ports in the United States a system of contracting exists between the shipping agents and the owners in the United Kingdom for the supply of seamen; in which the blood money is even higher than I have mentioned, as much as twenty dollars being deducted from the seamen's advance. The agreements usually terminate at the final port of discharge in the United Kingdom, the United States, or the Continent of Europe, but in most cases the words "United States" are required by the master, or his agent, to be struck out by the consul. So that, should the vessel return to those waters, the shipowner can demand from one to three months' pay from the men for their discharge; that is to say, if a man engages in one of the ports of the United States, and makes a voyage, returning to the United States, he has paid twenty dollars to this "crimp" for the privilege of getting the employment; he cannot get employment unless he pays that fee, so he pays this twenty dollars for a start, makes a voyage of three or four months, and that ship returns to port. The captain wants to get rid of his crew, so he gives them all kinds of work to do, and no money to spend; and when, as a result, the men ask to be discharged, the captain says, "I will discharge you, but you must pay a month's or two months' wages, and in some cases three months' wages."
*
The hon. Member must confine himself on this Vote to a criticism of the conduct of Her Majesty's consuls abroad. The general system to which he is referring is not a matter within the discretion of the consuls. Any matter which is within the discretion or power of the consuls, in which he thinks they are acting improperly, he can bring under review.
I contend I am fully entitled to discuss anything which appears in this Report.
*
I do not think that would be right at all. Upon this Vote the hon. Gentleman is entitled to criticise the action of the consuls. If he considers they have not made a proper Report, he can criticise that, but he cannot criticise the system upon which the consuls happen to report.
Then, Sir, I will stick to the conduct of the consuls. I have maintained more than once that Her Majesty's consuls could put a stop to these proceedings if they took the matter in hand in a proper manner. I have asked that instructions should be issued by the Government to the consuls, that no one, except the seamen and the master, should be allowed in the consuls' offices when the men are being engaged. It is not a proper thing, when the consuls themselves have admitted that this class of men do fasten themselves on the seamen, that they should be tolerated in the offices of the consuls. Surely there must be something radically wrong when the business of Her Majesty's consuls cannot be conducted without—I would not like to say there is collusion between the consuls and these men, but it is a very improper state of things which exists. The Government have been fully aware of this for over two years. It is not a question of to-day. I have repeatedly raised the question in the House. I have put questions to different Ministers, calling their attention to it. My statements have not been denied; they have been confirmed by the consuls themselves, and yet nothing has been done. There is another matter on which I have to complain of the conduct of the consuls. Very often voyages terminate in foreign ports. Under the Merchant Shipping Act, Sec. 186, it is provided that whenever a seaman is discharged in a foreign port, the owner shall provide that man with a passage home, with maintenance, to the port in the United Kingdom at which he was engaged. That section of the Act has been disputed for a long time, but it is established by the decision of a court of law that that obligation is imposed. It is the duty of Her Majesty's consuls, whenever men are discharged in their ports, to see that that section of the Act is complied with. But they do not do so. What is more, I have complained of consuls who deliberately place seamen in such a position, that when they commence an action for the recovery of what they are entitled to under this section, by the action of many of the consuls the men are put out of court. There is a section which says that the consul shall insist upon a certain amount of money, which, in his judgment, is sufficient to defray the expenses, being paid down. Take, for instance, Rotterdam or Antwerp. Many of the consuls, when a captain refuses to pay the men's fares and maintenance to the port in the United Kingdom at which they were engaged, say, "You must deposit 10s."Ten shillings only carries a man to the nearest port in the United Kingdom—say Harwich, and from there a man engaged at Cardiff has to pay his fare to the latter place out of his own pocket. If the seaman desires to sue in a court of law for the balance, all the owners have to do is to prove that Her Majesty's consul made an endorsement on the articles of agreement that 10s. was sufficient, and then the man is put out of court, and has no remedy whatever. I do not want Her Majesty's Government to take up the side of the seamen—theycan take their own part; but I want instructions to be given to every consular-officer abroad that, whenever a seaman is. discharged in his port, he will not make an endorsement on the articles that the captain has complied with the Act, unless the seaman is paid his full passage money to the port at which he was engaged, with maintenance money. We are only asking that no obstruction shall be put on our road in a court of law. Only to-day I was in court in connection with a case in which seamen discharged at Marseilles, claimed passage to Cardiff, but the captain would only pay to London. We are now told that the captain complied with the requirements of the consul, and that the latter has written a letter stating that he asked that the men's fares should be paid to London only, and that the men were perfectly satisfied, and the consul is to be called as a witness against the men. Another section of the Act provides that where the captain or owner fails to pay the passage of the men to the port of engagement, the consul himself can pay, and recover the money as a debt due from the owners. Where is the protection for a British seaman if the consul takes the side of employers as against the men? That seems to me to be a just cause of complaint. I have repeatedly called attention to these matters, and I hope the right hon. Gentleman, the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs, will see that the law is carried out. We do not ask for any special privileges. I wrote to the Board of Trade, informing them that it was our intention to place our own agents on the continent, so that wherever a captain refused to pay fares back to the port of engagement, our agents could pay and afterwards recover the amount as a debt. I got a letter from the Board of Trade, which no doubt came from the Foreign Office, stating that they could not see their way to issue any instructions. I hope, however, the Foreign Office will now issue instructions that crimps and robbers be kept off consular premises.
*
The hon. Member has made a speech containing a considerable indictment of the officers in the consular service, but he did not give me the slightest notice that he was bringing forward this question, or any opportunity to study the points he was about to make. The hon. Member made several sweeping charges without supporting them by individual cases of fact. With regard to one point to which the hon. Member alluded, viz., the Consular Office at New York, into which he says crimps find their way and ought to be excluded, only a few days ago, in answer to a question on the subject, I said that the point was under consideration at the present moment. The hon. Member represented in vivid terms the scenes which take place in consular offices, but we are informed that disturbances are of very rare occurrence; and in this matter, as in the other, it would be desirable if the hon. Gentleman were more definite.
I have many cases, but I did not desire to take up the time of the Committee.
*
I do not think the hon. Gentleman can really be under the impression—certainly, we are not under the impression—that there is any desire on the part of our consular officers to deprive any of our seamen of the protection to which they are entitled. The Government have no such desire, and if the hon. Gentleman can produce any cases of that kind, we will take care that they are properly investigated, but I do not think general statements are very helpful to us. The hon. Gentleman takes great interest in these matters; we take an interest in them also; and I may truly say that since I have been at the Foreign Office the hon. Gentleman has not addressed to me one single word of complaint with reference to consular officers.
I sent the complaints to the Board of Trade.
*
If my right hon. friend the President of the Board of Trade were here, I think he would say that in those cases also the hon. Gentleman might have been more definite. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that there is the strongest desire on our part to see that our seamen get the best possible advantage from our consular officers. As the hon. Gentleman knows, it is illegal in the United States to advance money on wages, but I have not the least doubt, as the right hon. Gentleman says, that the law is to some extent evaded, and if he will give us particulars we will gladly take the matter up. I can only say that in every report we have received there is manifest the strongest desire on the part of our consular officers to do the very best they can for our seamen.
I think the question raised by the hon. Member for Middlesbrough is one of great importance, and I am quite sure it is through no fault of the right hon. Gentleman himself that he has not been able to give the hon. Member a satisfactory assurance. The right hon. Gentleman complained that no definite details had been given. I quite admit that to a Minister specific instances are of more value than any amount of argument. Well, last year, the hon. Member for Middlesbrough set out at considerable length, and in the minutest detail, charges against the consuls. I take it that this is no charge against the personal conduct of the consuls, but against the bad system. The hon. Member quoted last year, from personal observation, gross cases where the lowest of human kind, crimps, and their attendants, were allowed to go into the British Consular Office at New York. Not only did the hon. Member draw the attention of the House to these complaints last year, but also the year before, and surely we have a right to complain that these grievances have not been redressed in the course of two years. This is not a question concerning seamen only; it is one of national importance. Very useful reports have been issued by certain consuls, which show most conclusively that these crimps ply their baneful trade in the consular offices, where they have actually got a kind of official standing. It is pointed out in these reports that consuls could, if certain steps were taken, have much greater control over the seamen and the crimps than they now have. Mr. Laidlaw, the British Consul at Portland, Oregon, in his Report, says that a comprehensive Consular Convention should be concluded with the United States, giving the same exclusive jurisdiction as is now enjoyed by the French and German Consuls. That would include power to call upon the local authority for necessary assistance. That is a very fertile field of usefulness for the office the right hon. Gentleman represents. Mr. Laidlaw shows clearly the serious danger menacing British seamen, how great the power of the drinking saloon is, and that, in spite of all warning, the seamen listen to what the crimps say. I believe if this exclusive jurisdiction referred to by Mr. Laidlaw were granted it would effectually cure the worst of the evils complained of. I am sure that in the present temper of the United States, which we all rejoice at, a consular convention might be arrived at, and I hope that matter will be taken up in earnest by the right hon. Gentleman during the recess.
*
I am fully aware of the importance of the subject, and I will undertake that in the course of the next few months the points raised shall be fully considered with the view of seeing what possible action can be taken to cure the evils complained of. The point brought forward more especially by Mr. Laidlaw, who is one of our most active and most excellent officers, will be considered, and although the subject is a very complicated one, I think I can promise the hon. Gentleman that he will have no occasion to raise the question next year.
Two points have been strongly urged by my hon. friend the Member for Middlesbrough. In the first place, he referred to the crimps, contending that they ought not to be allowed on the consular premises while contracts were being made between the masters and the seamen. That is a very small point in itself, but it is very great in its effect upon the interests of the seamen, because it leads the seamen to feel that the crimp has some legal standing in the matter of the contract. The other point is that the consuls should be referred to the section of the Act which makes it imperative on the masters of a ship to pay the fare of a sailor back from the foreign port at which he is discharged to the port at which he was engaged. I think the right hon. Gentleman is entitled to complain, as he has done, that no notice was given that this matter would be revived, but I am sure my hon. friend would be the last person to strike where his opponent is off guard.
I should not have intervened in this Debate but for the fact that I have seen some of the evils complained of in New York, and I am bound to say that no language can exaggerate them. But I rose for the purpose of drawing attention to the valuable suggestions made in the very first Report published in the Blue Book by Consul Fraser, who speaks with special authority on the subject. Consul Fraser sums up his report by this recommendation:
Then he goes on to make this valuable suggestion:"From a very lengthened experience of the British seaman at American ports, and of the many persons who directly or indirectly make their living out of him, I believe that the first step to be taken, and which will doubtless greatly check desertion in the United States, and at some ports almost entirely eliminate it, is to get rid of the so-called shipping master; and until he has ceased to exist all efforts to stop desertion will, in my opinion, he fruitless."
Then he goes on to say."I would suggest the establishment, under the supervision of the consul, of a department on similar lines to mercantile marine officers in the United Kingdom. No man should be allowed to be brought to the consulate to be shipped by any person who makes it a business of finding employment for seamen, and he should also be strictly excluded from the office. Advance notes should be issued and paid at the consulate. Should a master desire to have his crew put on board by an employé of the consulate, a charge of not more than 2 dollars for each man would be made for the service. An objection to this cannot well be raised on the ground that it would be an additional burden on the ship, as it is willingly paid at present to persons who perform the same work."
"A similar department to that to which I have referred was established at the Consulate-General at New York in 1872, under my own supervision, which worked admirably for several years, but, most unfortunately, it had to be discontinued for want of funds."
Order, order! The question which the hon. Member is discussing cannot be discussed under this Vote.
All I want to say is that I believe from my own observation there is not sufficient supervision on the part of the Consul-General at New York. I regard the suggestion of Consul Fraser as a most valuable one, and if his proposal were carried out, and if greater supervision were to be exercised, these evils would very soon cease to exist.
I think much of the mischief has arisen from the consuls acting, in perfect good faith, upon a wrong view of their duties under the Merchant Shipping Act, and only allowing the seaman the bare cost of his passage home without maintenance. The courts, while declaring that view to be wrong, have, at the same time, held that they cannot override the discretion of a consul. The consul is in the position of an arbitrator, from whoso decision there is no appeal, and therefore the seaman has no remedy. Accordingly it comes peculiarly within the province of the Foreign Office to instruct the consuls on this point, and then seamen would be relieved of very great injustice and hardship.
The matter to which I desire to call attention is the bearing of consular reports on trade. It is well within the knowledge of those connected with trade that we are far behind other countries in this matter, either because the reports furnished by consuls of other countries are superior to ours, or that the Foreign Office does not take sufficient steps to ventilate these reports. We find that in almost every country where there is a prospect of a growing trade, the German, Austrian, and Belgian consuls go in for minuter particulars of every class of trade, and that the various Foreign Offices take special steps to place those reports in the hands of the merchants. They have undoubtedly, by these means, cut us out of many markets where we had hitherto more than held our own. As a case in point, I would draw attention to the trade in Turkey, more especially as regards Asia Minor. I find, from the most excellent report of Acting-Consul Massey, that whereas some years ago our trade in a particular part of Turkey was extremely good, it fell away in consequence of events which took place in that quarter of the world. Now trade is about to revive, and the recovery which took place in 1897 has continued. We find that the exports are now £158,000, and the imports over £200,000. This sum, however, might be easily doubled. Prior to 1890 it was considerably larger than it is now. There is every opening for an increase of trade. But why is it this increase does not take place? Because there is no attempt made on the part of our Government, in conjunction with the consul, to see that proper trade catalogues are furnished, with price lists. The most absurd catalogues are sent out to these countries, furnishing a class of goods which it is altogether outside the power of the inhabitants to buy. It is suggested by the consul to whom I have referred, that a central agency should be established for the collation and distribution of catalogues, and for furnishing practical and useful information for the benefit of those who desire to encourage trade there. At the present time the entire trade is in the hands of a certain number of middlemen, mostly Greeks and Armenians, who are most unscrupulous in their dealing. The English merchant who sends out goods is completely in the hands of these men, who, for a commission of an extra five or six per cent., foist upon the people of this country low-class goods made in Austria and elsewhere. The establishment of a central agency, according to the consul, would not cost more than £2,000, and if the merchants of this country would put their hands in their pockets and pay £5 each, some 400 of them could provide the necessary money. At the present moment the entire trade in cloth is supplied from Austria. A large merchant in these parts declared that he sent an order to England, but it was not entertained. Another said he could not get a particular cloth.
*
Order, order! I do not see how the hon. and gallant Member connects these matters with the Vote. He is critising the actions of merchants.
I am endeavouring to criticise the action of the Foreign Office, in not taking steps to bring home, by means of consular reports, the condition of our trade, and to distribute these reports amongst the merchants, and I submit that it is in consequence of this attitude that we are losing trade. There is a great opening for a trade of something like £8,000 worth of cloth, as used in one part of Asia Minor. At the present time, however, the whole of this commodity is manufactured in Austria.
*
Order, order! The hon. Member is really criticising the action of the merchants in not acting upon the consular report.
My contention is that our consular reports fall distinctly behind those of all other great trading countries, as a consequence of which trade in all out-of-the-way places is passing into the hands of Germans and Belgians. I
AYES.
| ||
| Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N. E.) | Hazell, Walter, | Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham) |
| Asher, Alexander | Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) | Pearson, Sir Weetman D. |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Hedderwick, Thomas C. H. | Perks, Robert William |
| Atherley-Jones, L. | Hogan, James Francis | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |
| Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Horniman, Frederick John | Pirie, Duncan V. |
| Balfour, Rt. Hon. J. B. (Clackm. | Jameson, Major J. Eustace | Provand, Andrew Dryburgh |
| Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) | Joicey, Sir James | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Bllison, Alfred | Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.) | Roberts, J. Bryn (Eifion) |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Kearley, Hudson E. | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs). |
| Burns, John | Kilbride, Denis | Robson, William Snowdon |
| Caldwell, James | Labouchere, Henry | Runciman, Walter |
| Cameron, Sir C. (Glasgow) | Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cumb'land | Souttar, Robinson |
| Causton, Richard Knight | Lewis, John Herbert | Steadman, William Charles |
| Cawley, Frederick | Macaleese, Daniel | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Channing, Francis Allston | M'Dermott, Patrick | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Clough, Walter Owen | M'Leod, John | Ure, Alexander |
| Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) | Maddison, Fred. | Wallace, Robert |
| Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal) | Maden, John Henry | Walton, John L. (Leeds, S.) |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Warner, Thos. Courtenay T. |
| Dillon, John | Morgan, W. Pritchard (Merthyr | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) | Williams, John Carvell (Notts) |
| Fenwick, Charles | Moss, Samuel | Wilson. Henry J. (York, W. R.) |
| Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond | Moulton, John Fletcher | Wilson, Jos. H. (Middlesbro') |
| Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Gedge Sydney | O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) | |
| Gourley, Sir E. Temperley | O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Charles Dilke and Mr. Broadhurst. |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | |
| Hayne, Rt. Hon. Chas. Seale- | Oldroyd, Mark | |
should therefore be glad if the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs will say what steps are taken in order to prevent our competitors getting the better of us in these places.
Is it not the fact that the consular reports are in many respects not up to the mark? I contend that the consular service should be made a real service, as it is in other countries. At present gentlemen are appointed haphazard without any training.
*
totally denied the impeachment brought against the consuls by the hon. Member.
expressed the hope that the right hon. Gentleman would seriously consider the question raised by the hon. and gallant Member for West Newington.
*
I propose to ask the Committee to divide, in consequence of the unsatisfactory reply given by the Under Secretary with regard to slavery in Zanzibar and in British East Africa.
Question put.
The Committee divided:—Ayes, 80; Noes, 174. (Division List, No. 340.)
NOES.
| ||
| Arid, John | Fisher, William Hayes | Milward, Colonel Victor |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | FitzWigram, General Sir F. | Monk, Charles James |
| Arnold, Alfred | Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Flower, Ernest | Moore, William (Antrim, N.) |
| Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Man) | Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) | More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire) |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. G. W. (Leeds) | Fry, Lewis | Morrell, George Herbert |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Galloway, W. Johnson | Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford) |
| Barnes, Frederic Gorell | Gibbons, J. Lloyd | Murray, Rt Hn A. Graham (Bute |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Gibbs, Hon. V (St. Albans) | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) |
| Bathurst, Hon. A. Benjamin | Giles, Charles Tyrrell | Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol | Gilliat, John Saunders | Newdigate, Francis Alexander |
| Bethell, Commander | Goldsworthy, Major-General | Nicholson, William Graham |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Nicol, Donald Ninian |
| Bigwood, James | Gorst, Rt. Hn. Sir John Eldon | Northcote, Hon. Sir H. Stafford |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Goschen, Rt. Hn. G. J. (St. Geo. s | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay |
| Bond, Edward | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Pierpoint, Robert |
| Boulnois, Edmund | Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward |
| Bousfield, William Robert | Green, W. Raymond- (Cambs) | Purvis, Robert |
| Brassey, Albert | Greville, Hon. Ronald | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Gull, Sir Cameron | Richards, Henry Charles |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert W. | Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W. |
| Butcher, John George | Heaton, John Henniker | Ritchie, Rt. Hon. C. T. |
| Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) | Hermon-Hodge, R. Trotter | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) |
| Carlile, William Walter | Hill, Rt. Hn. A. Staveley (Staffs | Round, James |
| Cayzer, Sir Charles William | Hoare, Edw. Brodie (Hampste'd | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Cecil, Evely'n (Hertford, E.) | Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry | Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Howard, Joseph | Sharpe, William Edward T. |
| Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. | Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm. | Jackson, Rt. Hon. W. Lawies | Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbyshire) |
| Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r | Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
| Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Jenkins, Sir John Jones | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Charrington, Spencer | Jessel, Captain Herbert M. | Spencer, Ernest |
| Clare, Octavins Leigh | Johnston, William (Belfast) | Stanley, Edw. Jas. (Somerset) |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Keswick, William | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Kimber, Henry | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Knowles, Lees | Stone, Sir Bgnjamin |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Lawrence, Sir E Durning-(Corn | Strauss, Arthur |
| Colston, Chas. Ed. H. Athole | Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks) | Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier |
| Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W. | Lea, Sir T. (Londonderry) | Sutherland, Sir Thomas |
| Cox, Irwin E. Bainbridge | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Carrie | Talbot, Rt Hn J. G. (Oxford Uni. |
| Cripps, Charles Alfred | Llewelyn, Sir D.-(Swansea) | Tollemache, Henry James |
| Curzon, Viscount | Lock wood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. | Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray |
| Dalbiac, Col. Philip Hugh | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Long, Col. C. W. (Evesham) | Valentia, Viscount |
| Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) | Long, Rt. Hn. W. (Liverpool) | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Dickson-Poynder, Sir J. P. | Lowe, Marquess of | Warde, Lt.-Col. C. E. (Kent) |
| Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Lowe, Francis William | Williams, J. Powell- (Birm.) |
| Donkin, Richard Sim | Lowles, John | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh., N. |
| Doughty, George | Macartney, W. G. Ellison | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath) |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Macdona, John Cumming | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Doxford, William Theodore | Maclure, Sir John William | Wylie, Alexander |
| Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Wyndham, George |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw. | Malcolm, Ian | Wyndham-Quin, Maj. W. H. |
| Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Manners, Lord Edward Wm. J. | Wyvill, Marmaduke d'Arcy |
| Finch, George H. | Maxwell, Rt. Hn. Sir Herbert E. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir William Walrond and Mr.Anstruther. |
| Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) | |
| Firbank, Joseph Thomas | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | |
It being after Ten of the clock, the Chairman, in pursuance of the Order of the House of the 23rdFebruary last, proceeded to put the Questions necessary to dispose of the outstanding Votes in the Committee of Supply.
Original Question put, and agreed to.
20. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £154,463, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900, for Grants in Aid of the Expenses of the British Protectorates in Uganda and in Central and East Africa, and under the Uganda Railway Act, 1896."
The Committee divided:—Ayes, 206; Noes, 69. (Division List No. 341.)
AYES.
| ||
| Aird, John | Fison, Frederick William | More, Robert Jasp. (Shropshire) |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond | Morrell, George Herbert |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | FitzWygram, General Sir F. | Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford) |
| Arnold, Alfred | Flannery, Sir Forcescue | Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) |
| Asher, Alexander | Flower, Ernest | Murray, Rt Hn A. Graham (Bute |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) |
| Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy | Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r | Fry, Lewis | Newdigate, Francis Alexander |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. G. W. (Leeds) | Galloway, William Johnson | Nicholson, William Graham |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. J. B. (Clackm.) | Gedge, Sydney | Nicol, Donald Ninian |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Gibbons, J. Lloyd | Northcote, Hon. Sir H. Stafford |
| Barnes, Frederic Gorell | Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H (City of Lond) | Oldroyd, Mark |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Gibbs, Hon. Vicary (St. Albans) | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay |
| Bathurst, Hon. A. Benjamin | Giles, Charles Tyrrell | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol | Gilliat, John Saunders | Pearson, Sir Weetman D. |
| Bethell, Commander | Goldsworthy, Major-General | Pierpoint, Robert |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Pollock, Harry Frederick |
| Bigwood, James | Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon | Pyrce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Goschen, Rt Hn G. J (St George's | Purvis, Robert |
| Bond, Edward | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Richards, Henry Charles |
| Boulnois, Edmund | Greene, Henry D. (Shrewb'ry) | Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W. |
| Bousfield, William Robert | Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) | Ritchie, Rt. Hon. C. Thomson |
| Brassey, Albert | Greville, Hon. Ronald | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Gull, Sir Cameron | Round, James |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Harwood, George | Ryder, John Herbert Dudley |
| Butcher, John George | Hazell, Walter | Savory, Sir Joseph |
| Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) | Heaton, John Henniker | Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard |
| Carlile, William Walter | Hermon-Hodge, Robert Trotter | Seely, Charles Hilton |
| Causton, Richard Knight | Hill, Rt. Hn. A. Staveiey (Staffs | Sharpe, William Edward T. |
| Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.) | Hoare, Ed. B. (Hampstead) | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) |
| Cayzer, Sir Charles William | Hogan, James Francis | Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbyshire) |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) | Houldsworth, Sir W. Henry | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Howard, Joseph | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. | Hozier, Hon J. Henry Cecil | Spencer, Ernest |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.) | Jackson, Rt. Hn. Wm. Lawies | Stanley, Hon Arthur (Ormskirk |
| Chamberlain, J. A. (Worc'r) | Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick | Stanley, Edw. Jas. (Somerset) |
| Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Jenkins, Sir John Jones | Stanley, Lord (Lancs) |
| Charrington, Spencer | Jessel, Capt. Herbert Morton | Stephens, Henry Charles |
| Chelsea, Viscount | Johnston, William (Belfast) | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir J. M. |
| Clare, Octavius Leigh | Keswick, William | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Cochrane, Hon. T. H. A. E. | Kimber, Henry | Strauss, Arthur |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Knowles, Lees | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Lawrence, Sir E. Durning-(Corn | Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) | Sutherland, Sir Thomas |
| Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks) | Talbot, Rt Hn. J. G. (Ox'dUniv. |
| Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) | Lea, Sir Thomas (Londonderry | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Cooke, C. W. Radcliffe (Heref'd | Leigh-Bennet, Henry Currie | Tollemache, Henry James |
| Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W. | Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Sw'ns'a | Tomlinson, Wm. Ed. Murray |
| Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge | Lockwood, Lieut. Col. A. R. | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Cripps, Charles Alfred | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Usborne, Thomas |
| Curzon, Viscount | Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham | Valentia, Viscount |
| Dalbiac, Col. Philip Hugh | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Liverpool | Walton, J. Lawson (Leeds, S.) |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Lowe, Marquis of | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Davies, Sir Horatio D. (Chath'm | Lowe, Francis William | Williams, J. Powell-(Birm'g'm. |
| Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Lowles, John | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N.) |
| Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Macartney, W. G. Ellison | Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.) |
| Donkin, Richard Sim | Macdona, John Cumming | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath |
| Doughty, George | Maclure, Sir John William | Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Hudderf'd |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | M'Arthur, Chas. (Liverpool) | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Doxford, William Theodore | Malcolm, Ian | Wylie, Alexander |
| Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Manners, Lord Edw. Wm. J. | Wyndham, George |
| Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir Williain Hart | Maple, Sir John Blundell | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward | Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Young, Commander (Berks, E. |
| Finch, George H. | Milward, Colonel Victor | |
| Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Monk, Charles James | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Firbank, Joseph Thomas | Moon, Edw. Robert Pacy | |
| Fisher, William Hayes | Moore, William (Antrim, N.). | |
NOES.
| ||
| Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N. E.) | Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) | Perks, Robert William |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Hedderwick, Thomas Charles H | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |
| Atherley-Jones, L. | Horniman, Frederick John | Provand, Andrew Dryburgh |
| Austin,' M. (Limerick, W.) | Jameson, Major J. Eustace | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) | Joicey, Sir James | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Billson, Alfred | Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.) | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs) |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Kearley, Hudson E. | Roberts, William Snowdon |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Kilbride, Denis | Runciman, Walter |
| Burns, John | Labouehere, Henry | Sinclair, Capt. John (Forfarsh. |
| Caldwell, James | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumberland) | Souttar, Robinson |
| Cameron, Sir Chas. (Glasgow) | Lewis, John Herbert | Steadman, William Charles |
| Cawley, Frederick | Macaleese, Daniel | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Channing, Francis Allston | M'Dermott, Patrick | Trevelvan, Charles Philips |
| Crilly, Daniel | M'Leod, John | Ure, Alexander |
| Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal) | Maddison, Fred. | Wallace, Robert |
| Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) | Maden, John Henry | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Whiteley, George (Stockport) |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Morgan, W. P. (Merthyr) | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Dillon, John | Moss, Samuel | Williams, John Carvell (Notts). |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Moulton, John Fletcher | Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbro'gh) |
| Fenwick, Charles | O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Gourley, Sir E. Temperley | O'Connor, J. (Wicklow, W.) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Captain Norton and Mr. Pirie. |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | |
| Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale- | Palmer, Sir Charles M. (Durham | |
21. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £1,000, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st March, 1900,
AYES.
| ||
| Aird, John | Clare, Octavius Leigh | Gibbons, J. Lloyd |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H. (City of Lond |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Coghill, Douglas Harry | Gibbs, Hon. Vicary (St. Albans |
| Arnold, Alfred | Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Giles, Charles Tyrrell |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Gilliat, John Saunders |
| Bagot, Cap. J. FitzRoy | Colston, Chas. E. H. Athole | Goldsworthy, Major-General |
| Balfour, Rt. Hon. G. W. (Leeds | Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) | Gordon, Hon. John Edward |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Cooke, C. W. Radoliffe (Herefd. | Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon |
| Barnes, Frederic Gorell | Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W. | Goulding, Edward Alfred |
| Barton, Dunbar Pluuket | Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) |
| Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benj. | Cripps, Charles Alfred | Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol | Curzon, Viscount | Greene, W. Raymond- (Cambs. |
| Bethell, Commander | Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh | Greville, Hon. Ronald |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Dalkeith, Earl of | Gull, Sir Cameron |
| Bigwood, James | Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) | Hanbury, Rt. Hn. Robert Wm. |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Harwood, George |
| Bond, Edward | Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Heaton, John Henniker |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Donkin, Richard Sim | Hermon-Hodge, Robt. Trotter |
| Boulnois, Edmund | Doughty, George | Hill, Rt. Hn. A. Staveley (Staffs. |
| Bousfield, William Robert | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Hoare. Ed. Brodie (Hampstead) |
| Brassey, Albert | Doxford. William Theodore | Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Howard, Joseph |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir Wm. Hart | Hozier. Hon. J. Henry Cecil |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw. | Jackson, Rt. Hn. Wm. Lawies |
| Butcher, John George | Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick |
| Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) | Finch, George H. | Jenkins, Sir John Jones |
| Carlile, William Walter | Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton |
| Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh. | Firbank, Joseph Thomas | Johnston, William (Belfast) |
| Cayzer, Sir Charles William | Fisher, William Hayes | Keswick, William |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) | Fison, Frederick William | Kimber, Henry |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | FitzWygram, General Sir F. | Knowles, Lees |
| Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. | Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Lawrence, Sir E Durning-(Corn |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm. | Flower. Ernest | Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) |
| Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r | Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) |
| Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Fry, Lewis | Lea, Sir Thomas (Londonderry) |
| Charrington, Spencer | Galloway, William Johnson | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie |
| Chelsea, Viscount | Gedge, Sydney | Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Sw'ns'a |
for a Grant in Aid of the Revenue of the Island of Cyprus."
The Committee divided:—Ayes, 196; Noes, 78. (Division List, No. 342.)
| Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. | Northcote, Hon Sir H. Stafford | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir J. M. |
| Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham) | Parkes, Ebenezer | Strauss, Arthur |
| Long, Rt. Hon. W. (Liverpool) | Pierpoint, Robert | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Lowe, Marquees of | Pollock, Harry Frederick | Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier |
| Lowe, Francis William | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | Sutherland, Sir Thomas |
| Lowles, John | Purvis, Robert | Talbot, Rt Hn J. G. (Oxford Uni. |
| Macartney, W. G. Ellison | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Macdona, John Cumming | Richards, Henry Charles | Tollemache, Henry James |
| Maclure, Sir John William | Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir M. W. | Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray |
| M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Ritchie, Rt. Hon. C. T. | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Malcolm Ian | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) | Usborne, Thomas |
| Manners, Ld. Edward Wm. J. | Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye | Valentia, Viscount |
| Maple, Sir John Blundell | Round, James | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) | Warde, Lieut.-Col. C. E. (Kent) |
| Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Ryder, John Herbert Dudley | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Milward, Colonel Victor | Sandys, Lieut.-Col. T. Myles | Williams, Joseph Powell-(Birm. |
| Monk, Charles James | Savory, Sir Joseph | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N) |
| Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Scobel, Sir Andrew Richard | Wilson-Todd, W. H. (Yorks) |
| Moore, William (Antrim, N.) | Seely, Charles Hilton | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath |
| More, Robt. Jasper (Shropsh.) | Sharpe, William Edward T. | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Morrell, George Herbert | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) | Wylie, Alexander |
| Morton (A. H. A. (Deptford) | SideBottom, Wm. (Derbysh.) | Wyndham, George |
| Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute) | Simeon, Sir Barrington | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) | Spencer, Ernest | Young, Commander (Berks, E. |
| Newdigate, Francis Alexander | Stanley, Hon. A. (Ormskirk) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Nicholson, William Graham | Stanley, E. James (Somerset) | |
| Nicol, Donald Ninian | Stanley, Lord (Lancashire) |
NOES.
| ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E. | Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) | Perks, Robert William |
| Asher, Alexander | Hedderwiek, Thomas C. H. | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Hogan, James Francis | Pirie, Duncan V. |
| Atherley-Jones, L. | Horniman, Frederick John | Provand, Andrew Dryburgh |
| Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Jameson, Major J. Eustace | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Balfour, Rt. Hon. J. B. (Clackm. | Joicey, Sir James | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Billson, Alfred | Jones, W. (Carnarvonshire) | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Kearley, Hudson E. | Robson, William Snowdon |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Kilbride, Denis | Runciman, Walter |
| Burns, John | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumberland) | Sinclair, Capt. John (Forfarsh.) |
| Caldwell, James | Lewis, John Herbert | Souttar, Robinson |
| Cameron, Sir Charles (Glasgow | Macaleese, Daniel | Steadman, William Charles |
| Causton, Richard Knight | M'Dermott, Patrick | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Cawley, Frederick | M'Leod, John | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Crilly, Daniel | Maddison, Fred | Ure, Alexander |
| Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal) | Maden, John Henry | Wallace, Robert |
| Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) | Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Walton, J. Lawson (Leeds, S.) |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Moore, Arthur (Londonderry) | Warner, Thos. Courtenay T. |
| Dlike, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Morgan, W. Pritchard (Merth'r | Whiteley, George (Stockport) |
| Dillon, John | Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Moss, Samuel | Williams, John Carvell (Notts. |
| Fenwick, Charles | Moulton, John Fletcher | Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Hudderf'd |
| Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond | O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | O'Connor, Jas. (Wicklow, W.) | |
| Gourley, Sir Edw. Temperley | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Channing and Captain Norton. |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | Oldroyd, Mark | |
| Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale- | Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham) | |
| Hazell, Walter | Pearson, Sir Weetman D. | |
22. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £34,241, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March,
1900, for the Subsidies to certain Telegraph Companies."
The Committee divided:—Ayes, 197; Noes, 84. (Division List, No. 343.)
AYES.
| ||
| Aird, John | Fisher, William Hayes | Morrell, George Herbert |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Fison, Frederick William | Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford) |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | FitzWygram, General Sir F. | Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute) |
| Arnold, Alfred | Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Flower, Ernest | Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) |
| Bagot, Capt. Josceline FizRoy | Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) | Newdigate, Francis Alexander |
| Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W. (Leeds | Fry, Lewis | Nicholson, William Graham |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Galloway, Wm. Johnson | Nicol, Donald Ninian |
| Barnes, Frederick Gorell | Gedge, Sydney | Northcote, Hn. Sir H. Stafford |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Gibbons, J. Lloyd | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay |
| Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin | Gibbs, Hn A.G. H. (City of Lond. | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol | Gibbs, Hn. Vicary (St. Albans) | Pierpoint, Robert |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Giles, Charles Tyrrell | Pollock, Harry Frederick |
| Bethell, Commander | Gilliat, John Saunders | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Goldsworthy, Major-General | Purvis, Robert |
| Bigwood, James | Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John E. | Richards, Henry Charles |
| Bond, Edward | Goschen, Rt Hn G. J. (St George's | Ridley, Rt Hon Sir Matthew W. |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Ritchie, Rt. Hon. C. Thomson |
| Boulnois, Edward | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) |
| Bousfield, William Robert | Green, H. D. (Shrewsbury) | Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye |
| Brassey, Albert | Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) | Round, James |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Greville, Hon. Ronald | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Gull, Sir Cameron | Ryder, John Herbert Dudley |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robt. W. | Sandys, Lieut.-Col. Thos Myles |
| Butcher, John George | Harwood, George | Savory, Sir Joseph |
| Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) | Hermon-Hodge, Robert Trotter | Scoble, Sir Henry Richard |
| Carlile, William Walter | Hill, Rt. Hn. A. Staveley (Staffs. | Seely, Charles Hilton |
| Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.) | Hoare, Ed. Brodie (Hampstead | Sharpe, William Edward T. |
| Cayzer, Sir Charles William | Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) | Howard, Joseph | Sidebottom, William (Derbysh. |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Hozier, Hon. Jas. Henry Cecil | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
| Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. | Jackson, Rt. Hon. Wm. Lawies | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.) | Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick | Spencer, Ernest |
| Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r | Jenkins, Sir John Jones | Stanley, Hon. A. (Ormskirk) |
| Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton | Stanley, E. Jas. (Somerset) |
| Charrington, Spencer | Johnston, William (Belfast) | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Chelsea, Viscount | Keswick, William | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. |
| Clare, Octavius Leigh | Kimber, Henry | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Knowles, Lees | Strauss, Arthur |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Lawrence, Sir E. Durning-(Corn | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Lawrence, W. F. (Liverpool) | Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) | Sutherland, Sir Thomas |
| Colston, Chas. Ed. H. Athole | Lea, Sir Thomas(Londonderry) | Talbot, Rt. Hn. J G (Oxf'd Univ.) |
| Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Cooke, C. W. R. (Hereford) | Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Swans'a | Tollemache, Henry James |
| Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W. | Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. | Tomlinson, Wm. E. Murray |
| Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Cripps, Charles Alfred | Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham | Usborne Thomas |
| Curzon, Viscount | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (L'pool) | Valentia, Viscount |
| Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh | Lorne, Marquess of | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Lowe, Francis William | Warde, Lt.-Col. C. E. (Kent) |
| Davies, Sir Horatio D (Chatham | Lowles, John | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Macartney, W. G. Ellison | Williams Joseph Powell-(Birm |
| Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Macdona, John Cumming | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N. |
| Donkin, Richard Sim | Maclure, Sir John William | Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks) |
| Doughty, George | M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Malcolm, Ian | Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart- |
| Doxford, William Theodore | Manners, Lord Edward Wm. J. | Wylie, Alexander |
| Drucker, A. | Maple, Sir John Blundell | Wyndham, George |
| Duncombe. Hon. Hubert V. | Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) | Wyndham-Quin, Maj. W. H. |
| Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Wyvil, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edwd. | Milward, Colonel Victor | Young, Commander (Berks, E. |
| Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Monk, Charles James | |
| Finch, George H. | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Moore, William (Antrim, N.) | |
| Firbank, Joseph Thomas | More, Robt. J. (Shropshire) | |
NOES.
| ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N.E. | Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Broadhurst, Henry |
| Asher, Alexander | Balfour, Rt. Hn. J. B.(Clackm. | Burns, John |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Billson, Alfred | Caldwell, James |
| Atherley-Jones, L. | Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Cameron, Sir Chas. (Glasgow) |
| Causton, Richard Knight | Joicey, Sir James | Perks, Robert Willams |
| Cawley, Frederick | Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |
| Channing, Francis Allston | Kearley, Hudson, E. | Provand, Andrew Dryburgh |
| Crilly, Daniel | Kilbride, Denis | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal) | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumberland) | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) | Lewis, John Herbert | Roberts John H. (Denbighs.) |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Lloyd-George, David | Robson, William Snowdon |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Macaleese, Daniel | Runciman, Walter |
| Dillon, John | M'Dermott, Patrick | Sinclair, Capt. John (Forfarsh.) |
| Donelan, Captain A. | M'Ewan, William | Souttar, Robinson |
| Fen wick, Charles | M'Leod, John | Steadman, William Charles |
| Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond | Maddison, Fred. | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Maden, John Henry | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Gladstone, Rt. Hn. H. John | Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Ure, Alexander |
| Gourley, Sir E. Temperley | Moore, Arthur (Londonderry) | Wallace, Robert |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | Morgan, W. Pritchard (Merthr. | Walton, John Lawson (Leeds, S. |
| Hayne, Rt. Hn. Chas. Seale- | Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) | Warner, Thomas C. T. |
| Hazell, Walter | Moss, Samuel | Whiteley, George (Stockport) |
| Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) | Moulton, John Fletcher | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Heaton, John Henniker | O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) | Williams, John Carvell (Notts. |
| Hedderwick, Thos. Chas. H. | O'Connor, J. (Wicklow, W.) | Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Huddrsfld |
| Hogan, James Francis | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Holland, Wm. H. (York, W. R.) | Oldroyd, Mark | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Captain Norton and Mr. Pirie. |
| Horniman, Frederick John | Palmer, Sir Chas. M. (Durham). | |
| Jameson, Major J. Eustace | Pearson, Sir Weetman D. |
Class I
23. £4,000, Supplementary, Royal Palaces and Marlborough House.
24. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £130,537, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge
AYES.
| ||
| Aird, John | Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. | Fisher, William Hayes |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.) | Fison, Frederick William |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Chamberlain, J. A. (Worc'r) | FitzWygram, General Sir F. |
| Arnold. Alfred | Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Flannery, Sir Fortescue |
| Asher, Alexander | Charrington, Spencer | Flower, Ernest |
| Atkinson, Right Hon. John | Chelsea, Viscount | Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) |
| Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy | Clare, Octavius Leigh | Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. G. W. (Leeds) | Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Fry, Lewis |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. J. B. (Clackm.) | Coghill, Douglas Harry | Galloway, William Johnson |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Gedge, Sydney |
| Barnes, Frederic Gorell | Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Gibbons, J. Lloyd |
| Barton Dunbar Plunket | Colston, C. E. H. Athole | Gibbs, Hn A. G. H. (City of Lond. |
| Bathurst, Hon. Allen B. | Cook, F. L. (Lambeth) | Gibbs, Hon. Vicary (St. Albans) |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol) | Cooke, C. W. R. (Hereford) | Giles, Charles Tyrrell |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley, W | Gilliat, John Saunders |
| Bethell, Commander | Cox, Irwin Edw. Bainbridge | Gladstone, Rt. Hon. H. John. |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Cripps, Charles Alfred | Goldsworthy, Major-General |
| Bigwood, James | Curzon, Viscount | Gordon, Hon. John Edward |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh | Gorst, Rt. Hn. Sir John Eldon |
| Bond, Edward | Dalkeith. Earl of | Goschen, Rt Hn G J (St George's) |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) | Goulding, Edward Alfred |
| Boulnois, Edmund | Dickson-Poynder, Sir J. P. | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) |
| Bousfield, William Robert | Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury |
| Brassey, Albert | Donkin, Richard Sim | Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs- |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Doughty, George | Greville, Hon. Ronald |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Gull, Sir Cameron |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Doxford, William Theodore | Hanbury, Rt. Hon. R. W. |
| Butcher, John George | Drucker, A. | Harwood, George |
| Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) | Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Heaton, John Henniker |
| Carlile, William Walter | Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Hart | Hermon-Hodge, Robt. Trotter |
| Causton, Richard Knight | Fellowes, Hon. Ailywn Edw. | Hill, Rt. Hn. A. Staveley (Staffs. |
| Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.) | Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Hoare, Edw Brodie (Hampstead |
| Cayzer, Sir Charles William | Finch, George H. | Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry |
| Cecil, E. (Hertford, East) | Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Howard, Joseph |
| Cecil, Lord H. (Greenwich) | Firbank, Joseph Thomas | Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil |
which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900, for the Survey of the United Kingdom, and for minor services connected therewith."
The Committee divided:—Ayes, 207; Noes, 76. (Division List, No. 344.)
| Jackson, Rt. Hon. Wm. Lawies | More, Robt, Jasper (Shropshire) | Stanley, Hon. A. (Ormskirk) |
| Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick | Morrell, George Herbert | Stanley, E. J. (Somerset) |
| Jenkins, Sir John Jones | Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford) | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Jessel, Captain Herbert Merton | Murray, Rt. Hon. A. G. (Bute) | Stephens, Henry Charles |
| Johnston, William (Belfast) | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. |
| Joicey, Sir James | Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Keswick, William | Newdigate, Francis Alexander | Strauss, Arthur |
| Kimber, Henry | Nicholson, William Graham | Strurtt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Knowles, Lees | Nicol, Donald Ninian | Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier |
| Lawrence, Sir E Durning-(Corn | Northcote, Hon. Sir H. Stafford | Sutherland, Sir Thomas |
| Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay | Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Ox. U.) |
| Lawson, John Grant (Yorks) | Parkes, Ebenezer | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Lea, Sir T. (Londonderry) | Pierpoint, Robert | Tollemache, Henry James |
| Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Pollock, Harry Frederick | Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray |
| Llewelyn, Sir D. (Swansea) | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. | Purvis, Robert | Ure, Alexander |
| Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne | Usborne, Thomas |
| Long, Col. C. W. (Evesham) | Richards, Henry Charles | Valentia, Viscount |
| Long, Rt. Hn. W. (Liverpool) | Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard |
| Lorne, Marquess of | Ritchie, Rt. Hn. C. Thomson | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Lowe, Francis William | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney | Warde, Lt.-Col. C. E. (Kent) |
| Lowles, John | Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Macartney, W. G. Ellison | Round, James | Williams, Joseph Powell (Birm. |
| Macdona, John Cumming | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) | Wilson, J. W (Worcestersh., N. |
| Maclure, Sir John William | Ryder, John Herbert Dudley | Wilson-Todd, W. H. (Yorks.) |
| M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath |
| Malcolm, Ian | Savory, Sir Joseph | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Manners, Lord Ed. Wm. J. | Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard | Wylie, Alexander |
| Maple, Sir John Blundell | Seely, Charles Hilton | Wyndham, George |
| Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) | Sharpe, William Edward T. | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) | Wyvil, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Milward. Colonel Victor | Sidebottom, William (Derbysh) | Young, Commander (Berks, E.) |
| Monk, Charles James | Simeon, Sir Barrington | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) | |
| Moore, William (Antrim, N.) | Spencer, Ernest |
NOES.
| ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.) | Horniman, Frederick John | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Jameson, Major J. Eustace | Pirie, Duncan V. |
| Atherley-Jones, L. | Kearley, Hudson E. | Provand, Andrew Dryburgh |
| Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Kilbride, Denis | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Billson, Alfred | Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cumb'land | Roberts John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Lloyd-George, David | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) |
| Broad hurst, Henry | Macaleese, Daniel | Robson, William Snowdon |
| Burns, John | MacDonnell, Dr M. A (Queen'sC | Runciman, Walter |
| Caldwell, James | M'Dermott, Patrick | Sinclair, Capt. J. (Forfarshire) |
| Cameron, Sir Charles (Glasgow) | M'Ewan, William | Souttar, Robinson |
| Cawley, Frederick | M'Leod, John | Steadman, William Charles |
| Channing, Francis Allston | Maddison, Fred. | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Crilly, Daniel | Maden, John Henry | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal) | Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Wallace, Robert |
| Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) | Moore, Arthur (Londonderry) | Walton, John Lawson (Leeds, S.) |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Morgan, W. Pritchard (Merthyr | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) | Whiteley, George (Stockport) |
| Dillon, John | Moss, Samuel | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Moulton, John Fletcher | Williams, John Carvell (Notts. |
| Fenwick, Charles | Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Wilson, Joseph (Middlesbro') |
| Gourley, Sir Edw. Temperley | O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) | Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Hudders F. |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | O'Connor, James (Wicklow W, | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale- | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | |
| Hazell, Walter | Oldroyd, Mark | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Herbert Lewis and Mr. William Jones. |
| Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) | Palmer, Sir Chas. M. (Durham | |
| Hedderwick, Thomas Charles H | Pearson, Sir Weetman D. | |
| Holland, Wm. H. (York, W. R.) | Perks, Robert William | |
25. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £17,641 (including a Supplementary sum of£13,000), be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900, for the Erection,
Repairs, and Maintenance of Public Buildings in Ireland, for the Maintenance of certain Parks and Public Works, and for the Maintenance of Drainage Works on the River Shannon."
The Committee divided:—Ayes, 196; Noes, 81. (Division List, No. 345.)
AYES.
| ||
| Aird, John | Fisher, William Hayes | Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute) |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Fison, Frederick William | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Fitz Wygram, General Sir F. | Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) |
| Arnold, Alfred | Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Newdigate, Francis Alex. |
| Atkinson, Right Hon. John | Flower, Ernest | Nicholson, William Graham |
| Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy | Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) | Nicol, Donald Ninian |
| Balfour, Rt. Hon Grld W. (Leeds | Fry, Lewis | Northcote, Hon. Sir H. Stafford |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Galloway, William Johnson | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay |
| Barnes, Frederic Gorell | Gedge, Sydney | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Gibbons, J. Lloyd | Pierpoint, Robert |
| Bathurst, Hon. A. Benjamin | Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H. (City of Lon. | Pollock, Harry Frederick |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol) | Gibbs, Hon. Vicary (St. Albans) | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Giles, Charles Tyrrell | Purvis, Robert |
| Bethell, Commander | Gilliat, John Saunders | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Goldsworthy, Major-General | Richards, Henry Charles |
| Bigwood, James | Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Ridley, Rt Hon Sir Matthew W. |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir J. Eldon | Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Charles T. |
| Bond, Edward | Goschen, Rt Hn G J (St George's) | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffth- | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Rollitt, Sir Albert Kaye |
| Boulnois, Edmund | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Round, James |
| Bousfield, William Robert | Greene, H. D. (Shrewsbury) | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Brassey, Albert | Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs. | Ryder, John Herbert Dudley |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Greville, Hon. Ronald | Sandys, Lieut-Col. Thomas M. |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Gull, Sir Cameron | Savory, Sir Joseph |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Hanbury, Rt. Hn. Robert Wm. | Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard |
| Butcher, John George | Hermon-Hodge, Rbt. Trotter | Seeley, Charles Hilton |
| Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) | Hill, Rt. Hn. A. Staveley (Staffs | Sharpe, William Edward T. |
| Carlile, William Walter | Hoare, Edw. Brodie (Hampstd. | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) |
| Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.) | Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry | Sidebottom, William (Derbys. |
| Cayzer, Sir Charles William | Howard, Joseph | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) | Hozier, Hon. J. Henry Cecil | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Jackson, Rt. Hon. Wm. Lawies | Spencer, Ernest |
| Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. | Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick | Stanley, Hon. A. (Ormskirk) |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J.(Birm. | Jenkins, Sir John Jones | Stanley, Edw. Jas. (Somerset) |
| Chamberlain, J. A. (Worc'r) | Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Johnston, William (Belfast) | Stephens, Henry Charles |
| Charrington, Spencer | Keswick, William | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. |
| Chelsea, Viscount | Kimber, Henry | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Clare, Octavius Leigh | Knowles, Lees | Strauss, Arthur |
| Cochrane, Hon. T. H. A. E. | Lawrence, Sir E. Durning-(Corn | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool | Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks) | Sutherland, Sir Thomas |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Lea, Sir Thos. (Londonderry) | Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Ox. Univ.) |
| Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) | Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Sw'nsea | Tollemache, Henry James |
| Cooke, C. W.R. (Hereford) | Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. | Tomlinson, Wm. E. Murray |
| Corwallis, Fiennes Stanley W. | Loder, Gerald W. Erskine | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge | Long, Col. C. W. (Evesham) | Usborne, Thomas |
| Cripps, Charles Alfred | Long, Rt. Hn Walter (Liverpool | Valentia, Viscount |
| Curzon, Viscount | Lorne, Marquess of | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard |
| Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh | Lowe, Francis William | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Lowles, John | Warde, Lieut.-Col. C. E.(Kent) |
| Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) | Macartney, W. G. Ellison | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Macdona, John Cumming | Williams, J. Powell-(Birm.) |
| Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Maclure, Sir John William | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N. |
| Donkin, Richard Sim | M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.) |
| Doughty, George | Malcolm, Ian | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Maple, Sir John Blundell | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Doxford, William Theodore | Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) | Wylie, Alexander |
| Drucker, A. | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Wyndham, George |
| Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Milward, Colonel Victor | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart | Monk, Charles James | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw. | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Young; Commander (Berks, E.) |
| Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Moore, William (Antrim, N.) | |
| Finch, George H. | More, Robert.(Shropshire) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
| Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Morrell, George Herbert | Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Firbank, Joseph Thomas | Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford) | |
NOES.
| ||
| Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N.E.) | Atherley-Jones, L. | Billson, Alfred |
| Asher, Alexander | Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Bolton, Thomas Dolling |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Balfour, Rt Hn. J. Blair (Clackm | Broadhurst, Henry |
| Burns, John | Kearley, Hudson E. | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |
| Caldwell, James | Kilbride, Denis | Pirie, Duncan V. |
| Cameron, Sir Charles (Gl'sg'w) | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumberland) | Provand, Andrew Dryburgh |
| Cawley, Frederick | Lewis, John Herbert | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Channing, Francis Allston | Lloyd-George, David | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Crilly, Daniel | Macaleese, Daniel | Roberts, J. H. (Denbighsh.) |
| Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal) | MacDonnell, Dr. M A (Queen'sC | Robson, William Snowdon |
| Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) | M'Dermott, Patrick | Runciman, Walter |
| Dalziel, James Henry | M'Ewan, William | Sinclair, Capt. J. (Forfarshire) |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | M'Leod, John | Souttar, Robinson |
| Dillon, John | Maddison, Fred. | Steadman, William Charles |
| Fenwick, Charles | Maden, John Henry | Trevelyan, Charles Phillips |
| Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Ure, Alexander |
| Gourley, Sir Edw. Temperley | Morgan, W. Pritchard (Merth.) | Wallace, Robert |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | Morton, Edw. J. C.(Devonport) | Walton, J. Lawson (Leeds, S.) |
| Harwood, George | Moss, Samuel | Warner, Thos. Courtenay T. |
| Hayne, Rt. Hn. Chas. Seale- | Moulton, John Fletcher | Whiteley, George (Stockport) |
| Hazell, Walter | Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) | O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) | Williams, J. Carvell (Notts.) |
| Hedderwick, Thomas C. H. | O'Connor, Arthur (Donegal) | Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough) |
| Holland, W. H. (York, W. R.) | O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. | Woodhouse, Sir JT. (Hudd'field |
| Horniman, Frederick John | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Jameson, Major J. Eustace | Oldroyd, Mark | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Captain Donelan and Mr. Donal Sullivan. |
| Joicey, Sir James | Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham) | |
| Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.) | Perks, Robert William |
Class Ii
26. Motion made, and Question put, That a sum, not exceeding £6,099, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during
AYES.
| ||
| Aird, John | Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Gilliat, John Saunders |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Goldsworthy, Major General |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole | Gordon, Hon. John Edward |
| Arnold, Alfred | Cook, Fred Lucas (Lambeth) | Gorst, Rt. Hn. Sir John Eldon |
| Atkinson, Right Hon. John | Cooke, C. W. R. (Hereford) | Goschen, Rt. Hn. G. J. (St. Geo's) |
| Bagot, Capt. J. FitzRoy | Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W. | Goulding, Edward Alfred |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. G. W. (Leeds) | Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Cripps, Charles Alfred | Greene, H. D. (Shrewsbury) |
| Barnes, Frederic Gorell | Curzon, Viscount | Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs. |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Dalbiac, Col. Philip Hugh | Greville, Hon. Ronald |
| Bathurst, Hon. A. Benjamin | Dalkeith, Earl of | Gull, Sir Cameron |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol | Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) | Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Rbt. Wm. |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Hermon-Hodge, R. Trotter |
| Bethell, Commander | Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Hill, Rt Hon A Staveley (Staffs) |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Donkin, Richard Sim | Hoare, E. B. (Hampstead) |
| Bigwood, James | Doughty, George | Houldsworth, Sir Wm. H. |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Howard, Joseph |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Doxford, William Theodore | Hozier, Hon. J. H. Cecil |
| Boulnois, Edmund | Drucker, A. | Jackson, Rt. Hn. Wm. Lawies |
| Bousfield, William Robert | Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick |
| Brassey, Albert | Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Hart- | Jenkins, Sir John Jones |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward | Jessel, Captain H. Merton |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Johnston, William (Belfast) |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Finch, George H. | Keswick, William |
| Buteher, John George | Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Kimber, Henry |
| Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) | Firbank, Joseph Thomas | Knowles, Lees |
| Carlile, William Walter | Fisher, William Hayes | Lawrence, Sir E. Durning-(Corn |
| Cavendish, V.C.W.(Derbysh.) | F'ison, Frederick William | Lawrence, Wm F. (Liverpool |
| Cayzer, Sir Charles William | Fitz Wygram, General Sir F. | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) | Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Lea, Sir Thomas (Londond'rry |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Flower, Ernest | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie |
| Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. | Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) | Llewelyn Sir Dillwyn-(Swansea |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.) | Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. |
| Chamberlain, J. Austen (Wor.) | Fry, Lewis | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine |
| Chaplin, Right Hon. Henry | Galloway, William Johnson | Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham |
| Charrington, Spencer | Gedge, Sydney | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Liverp'l) |
| Chelsea, Viscount | Gibbons, J. Lloyd | Lorne, Marquess of |
| Clare, Octavius Leigh | Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H. (City Lond.) | Lowe, Francis William |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Gibbs, Hn. Vicary (St. Albans | Lowles, John |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Giles, Charles Tyrrell | Macartney, W. G. Ellison |
the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Offices of the House of Lords."
The Committee divided:—Ayes, 198; Noes, 81. (Division List, No. 346.)
| Macdona, John Gumming | Purvis, Robert | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Maclure, Sir John William | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne Richard, Henry Charles | Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier |
| M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Richard, Henry Charles | Sutherland, Sir Thomas |
| Malcolm, Ian | Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W. | Talbot, Rt. Hon. J. G. (Oxf'd U. |
| Manners, Lord Edward W. J. | Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Maple, Sir John Blundell | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) | Tollemache, Henry James |
| Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) | Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye | Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray |
| Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Round, James | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Milward, Colonel Victor | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) | Usborne, Thomas |
| Monk, Charles James | Ryder, John Herbert Dudley | Valentia, Viscount |
| Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard |
| Moore, William (Antrim), N.) | Savory, Sir Joseph | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| More, R. Jasper (Shropshire) | Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard | Warde, Lieut.-Col. C. E. (Kent) |
| Morrell, George Herbert | Seely, Charles Hilton | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Morton, Arthur H.A.(Deptford | Sharpe, William Edward T. | Williams, Jos. Powell-(Birm.) |
| Murray Rt. Hon. A. G. (Bute | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh., N. |
| Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) | Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbysh.) | Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.) |
| Murray, Col. Wyndham(Bath) | Simeon, Sir Barrington | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R.(Bath. |
| Newdigate, Francis Alexander | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) | Wortley, Rt.Hn. C. B. Stuart- |
| Nicholson, William Graham | Spencer, Ernest | Wylie, Alexander |
| Nicol, Donald Ninian | Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk | Wyndham, George |
| Northcote, Hon. Sir H. Stafford | Stanley, Edw. Jas. (Somerset) | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Parkes, Ebenezer | Stephens, Henry Charles | Young, Commander (Berks, E. |
| Pierpoint, Robert | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Pollock, Harry Frederick | Stone, Sir Benjamin | |
| Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | Strauss, Arthur. |
NOES.
| ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E. | Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) | Palmer, Sir Chas. M. (Durham) |
| Asher, Alexander | Hedderwick, Thomas Charles H | Pearson, Sir Weetman D. |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Holland, W. H. (York, W. R.) | Perks, Robert William |
| Atherley.Jones, L. | Horniman, Frederick John | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |
| Austin, M. (Limberick, W.) | Jameson, Major J. Eustace | Provand, Andrew Dryburgh |
| Balfour, Rt. Hon. J. B. (Clackm. | Joicey, Sir James | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Billson, Alfred | Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.) | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Kearley, Hudson E. | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Kilbride, Denis | Robson, William Snowdon |
| Burns, John | Lawson Sir Wilfrid (Cumb'land | Runciman, Walter |
| Caldwell, James | Lewis, John Herbert | Sinclair, Capt. John (Forfarsh. |
| Cameron, Sir Charles (Glasgow | Lloyd-George, David | Souttar, Robinson |
| Causton, Richard Knight | Macaleese, Daniel | Steadman, William Charles |
| Cawley, Frederick | MacDonnell, Dr. M. A. (Qn'sC.) | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath). |
| Channing, Francis Allston | M'Dermott, Patrick | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Crilly, Daniel | M'Ewan, William | Ure, Alexander |
| Curran, Thomas, B. (Donegal) | M'Leod, John | Wallace, Robert |
| Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) | Maddison, Fred. | Walton, J. Lawson (Leeds, S.) |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Maden, John Henry | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Whiteley, (George (Stockport) |
| Dillon, John | Morgan, W. P. (Merthyr) | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Morton, Edw. J. C. (Devonport) | Williams, J. Carvell (Notts.) |
| Fenwick, Charles | Moss, Samuel | Wilson, Jos. H. (Middlesbrough |
| Gourley, Sir Edward Temperley | Moulton, John Fletcher | Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Huddersf. |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | O'Connor, Arthur (Donegal) | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Harwood, George | O'Connor, James (Wricklow, W | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Captain Norton and. Mr. Pirie. |
| Hayne, Rt Hn. Charles Seale- | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool). | |
| Hazell, Walter | Olroyd, Mark | |
27. £15,269, to complete the sum for House of Commons Offices.
28. £59,300, to complete the sum for the Treasury and Subordinate Departments.
29. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £96,868, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the
AYES.
| ||
| Aird, John | Asher, Alexander | Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W (Leeds |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Balfour, Rt Hn J. Blair (Clackm. |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy | Banbury, Frederick George |
| Arnold, Alfred | Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch.) | Barnes, Frederic Gorell |
sum necessary to defray the Charge which, will come in course of payment, during the year ending on the 31st. day of March, 1900, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of Her Majesty's. Secretary of State for the Home Department and Subordinate Offices."
The Committee divided:—Ayes, 204;Noes, 74. (Division List, No. 347.)
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Fry, Lewis | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) |
| Bathurst, Hon. Allen B. | Galloway, William Johnson | Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) |
| Beach, Rt, Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol | Gedge, Sydney | Newdigate, Francis Alexander |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Gibbons, J Lloyd | Nicholson, William Graham |
| Bethell, Commander | Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H. (City of Lon. | Nicol, Donald Ninian |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Gibbs, Hon. V. (St. Albans) | Northcote, Hn. Sir H. Stafford |
| Bigwood, James | Giles, Charles Tyrrell | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Gilliat, John Saunders | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Bond, Edward | Goldsworthy, Major-General | Pierpoint, Robert |
| Boscawen. Arthur Griffith- | Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Pollock, Harry Frederick |
| Boulnois, Edmund | Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir J. Eldon | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward |
| Bousfield, William Robert | Goschen, Rt. Hn.G. J. (St. Geo's | Purvis, Robert |
| Brassey, Albert | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Richards, Henry Charles |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Green, H. D. (Shrewsbury) | Ridley, Rt. Hon Sir Matthew W |
| Burdett-Coutts. W. | Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) | Ritchie, Rt. Hon Chas. Thomson |
| Butcher, John George | Greville, Hon. Ronald | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Campbell. J. H. M. (Dublin) | Gull, Sir Cameron | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) |
| Carlile, William Walter | Hanbury, Rt. Hon. R. Wm. | Rollitt, Sir Albert Kaye |
| Causton, Richard Knight | Hedderwick, Thomas C. H. | Round, James |
| Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh. | Hermon-Hodge, Robt. Trotter | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Cayzer, Sir Charles William | Hill, Rt. Hn. A. Staveley (Staffs) | Ryder, John Herbert Dudley |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) | Hoare, Ed. Brodie (Hampstead) | Sandys, Lieut.-Col. T. Myles |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry | Savory, Sir Joseph |
| Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. | Howard, Joseph | Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard |
| Chamberlain, J. Austen(Worc. | Hozier, Hon. James H. Cecil | Seely, Charles Hilton |
| Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Jackson, Rt. Hon. W. Lawies | Sharpe, William Edward T. |
| Charrington, Spencer | Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) |
| Chelsea, Viscount | Jenkins, Sir John Jones | Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbyshire) |
| Clare, Octavius Leigh | Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A.E. | Johnston, William (Belfast) | Spencer, Ernest |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Joicey, Sir James | Stanley, Hon. A. (Ormskirk) |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Keswick, William | Stanley, E. J. (Somerset) |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Kimber, Henry | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole | Knowles, Lees | Stephens, Henry Charles |
| Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) | Lawrence, Sir E. Durning-(Corn | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. |
| Cooke, C. W. Radcliffe(Heref'd) | Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverp'l) | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W. | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) | Strauss, Arthur |
| Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge | Lea, Sir Thos. (Londonderry) | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Cripps, Charles Alfred | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier |
| Curzon, Viscount | Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Swans. | Sutherland, Sir Thomas |
| Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh | Lock Wood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. | Talbot, Rt Hn J.G.(Oxf'd Univ. |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) | Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham | Tollemache, Henry James |
| Dickson-Poynder, Sir J. P, | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Liver'l) | Tomlinson, Wm. Edward M. |
| Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Lorne, Marquess of | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Donkin, Richard Sim | Lowe, Francis William | Usborne, Thomas |
| Doughty, George | Lowles, John | Valentia, Viscount |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Macartney, W. G. Ellison | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard |
| Doxford, William Theodore | Maedona, John Cumming | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Drucker, A. | Maclure, Sir John William | Warde, Lieut.-Col. C. E. (Kent) |
| Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Hart | Malcolm, Ian | Williams, J. Powell-(Birm.) |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edwd. | Manners, Lord Edward W. J. | Wilson,. J. W. (Worcestersh., N. |
| Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Maple, Sir John Blundell | Wilson-Todd, Wm. H.(Yorks.) |
| Finch, George H. | Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. A. R. (Bath) |
| Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart— |
| Firbank, Joseph Thomas | Milward, Colonel Victor | Wylie, Alexander |
| Fisher, William Hayes | Monk, Charles James | Wyndham, George |
| Fison, Frederick William | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| FitzWygram, General Sir F. | Moore, William (Antrium, N.) | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Flannery, Sir Fortescue | More, Robt. Jasper (Shropsh.) | Young, Commander (Berks, E.) |
| Flower, Ernest | Morrell, George Herbert | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) | Morton, Arthur H. A. (Dept'd | |
| Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Murray, Rt. Hon. A. G. (Bute) |
NOES.
| ||
| Abraham, Williaim (Cork, N. E. | Cameron, Sir Chas. (Glasgow) | Donelan, Captain A. |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Cawley, Frederick | Fenwick, Charles |
| Atherley-Jones, L. | Channing, Francis Allston | Gourley, Sir E. Temperley |
| Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Crilly, Daniel | Griffith, Ellis J. |
| Billson, Alfred | Curran, Thos. B. (Donegal) | Harwood, George |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) | Hayne, Rt. Hon. Chas. Seale— |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Dalziel, James Henry | Hazell, Walter |
| Burns, John | Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth |
| Caldwell, James | Dillon, John | Holland, Wm. H. (York. W. R. |
| Horniman, Frederick John | Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) | Steadman, William Charles |
| Jameson, Major J. Eustace | Moss, Samuel | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) | Moulton, John Fletcher | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Kearley, Hudson E. | O'Connor, Arthur (Donegal) | Ure, Alexander |
| Kilbride, Denis | O'Connor, J. (Wicklow, W.) | Wallace, Robert |
| Lawson, Sir Wilfrid(Cumb'land | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | Walton, J. Lawson (Leeds, S.) |
| Lewis, John Herbert | Oldroyd, Mark | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| Lloyd-George, David | Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham) | Whiteley, George (Stockport) |
| Macaleese, Daniel | Pearson, Sir Weetman D. | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| MacDonnell, Dr. M. A. (Q'n's C. | Pickersgill, Edward Hare | Williams, J. Carvell (Notts.) |
| M'Dermott, Patrick | Provand, Andrew Dryburgh | Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough) |
| M'Ewan, William | Rickett, J. Compton | Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Huddrstld |
| M'Leod, John | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs) | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Maddison, Fred. | Robson, William Snowdon | |
| Maden, John Henry | Runciman, Walter | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Captain Norton and Mr. Pirie. |
| Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Sinclair, Capt. J. (Forfarshire | |
| Morgan, W. P. (Merthyr) | Souttar, Robinson |
30. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £49,482, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day
AYES.
| ||
| Aird, John | Cripps, Charles Alfred | Houldsworth, Sir William H. |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Curzon, Viscount | Howard, Joseph |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh | Hozier, Hon. James H. Cecil |
| Arnold, Alfred | Dalkeith, Karl of | Jackson, Rt. Hon. Wm. Lawies |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Davies, Sir Horatio D (Chath'm | Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick |
| Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy | Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Jenkins, Sir John Jones |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r) | Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Jessell, Capt. Herbert Merton |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. G. W. (Leeds) | Donkin, Richard Sim | Johnston, William (Belfast) |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Doughty, George | Keswick, William |
| Barnes, Frederic Gorell | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Kimber, Henry |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Doxford, William Theodore | Knowles, Lees |
| Bathurst. Hon. A. Benjamin | Drucker, A. | Lawrence, Sir E. Durning-(Corn |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol | Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Hart | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) |
| Bethell, Commander | Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw. | Lea, Sir Thomas (Loudonderry) |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie |
| Bigwood, James | Finch, George H. | Llewelyn. Sir Dillwyn-(Swans'a |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. |
| Bond, Edward | Firbank, Joseph Thomas | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine |
| Boseawen, Arthur Griffith- | Fisher, William Hayes | Long, Col. Chas. W.(Evesham) |
| Boulnois, Edmund | Fison, Frederick William | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Liverpool |
| Boasfield, William Robert | FitzWygram, General Sir F. | Lorne, Marquess of |
| Brassey, Albert | Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Lowe, Francis William |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Flower. Ernest | Lowles, John |
| Bullird, Sir Harry | Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) | Macartney, W. G. Ellison |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Macdona, John cumming |
| Butcher, John George | Fry, Lewis | Maclure, Sir John William |
| Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) | Galloway, William Johnson | M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) |
| Carlile, William Walter | Gedge, Sydney | Malcolm, Ian |
| Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.) | Gibbons, J. Lloyd | Manners, Lord Edward Wm. J. |
| Cayzer, Sir Charles William | Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H. (City of Lon. | Maple, Sir John Blundell |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, E.) | Gibbs, Hn. Vicary (St. Albans | Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Giles, Charles Tyrrell | Mildmay, Francis Bingham |
| Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. | Gilliat, John Saunders | Monk, Charles James |
| Chamberlain, J. Austen(Worc'r | Goldsworthy, Major-General | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy |
| Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Moore, William (Antrim, N.) |
| Charrington, Spencer | Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir J. Eldon | More, Rbt. Jasper (Shropshire) |
| Chelsea, Viscount | Goschen, Rt. Hn. G. J. (St. Geo's | Morrell, George Herbert |
| Clare, Octavius Leigh | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford) |
| Cochrane, Hn. T. H. A. E. | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Murray, Rt. Hon. A. G. (Bute) |
| Coghill, Douglas, Harry | Green, H. D. (Shrewsbury) | Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry) |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) | Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Greville, Hon. Ronald | Newdigate, Francis Alexander |
| Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole | Gull, Sir Cameron | Nicholson, William Graham |
| Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) | Hanbury, Rt Hon. R. Wm. | Nicol, Donald Ninian |
| Cooke, C.W. Radcliffe (Heref'd | Hermon-Hodge, Robt. Trotter | Northcote, Hon. Sir H. Stafford |
| Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W | Hill. Rt. Hn. A. Staveley (Staffs | Orr-Ewing Charles Lindsay |
| Cox, lrwin Edw. Bainbridge | Hoare, Ed. Brodie (Hampstead | Parkes, Ebenezer |
of March, 1900, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Department of Her Majesty's Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs."
The Committee divided:—Ayes, 197; Noes, 77. (Division List, No. 348.)
| Pierpoint, Robert | Sidebottom, William (Derbys.) | Valentia, Viscount |
| Pollock, Harry Frederick | Simeon, Sir Barrington | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. H. |
| Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Purvis, Robert | Spencer, Ernest | Warde, Lt.-Col. C.E. (Kent) |
| Rasch, Major Frederick Carne | Stanley, Edward J. (Somerset) | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Richards, Henry Charles | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) | Williams, J. Powell-(Birm.) |
| Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir M. W. | Stephens, Henry Charles | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N.) |
| Ritchie, Rt. Hon. C. Thomson | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir J. M. | Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.) |
| Robertson. Herbert (Hackney) | Stone, Sir Benjamin | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath |
| Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye | Strauss, Arthur | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Round, James | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley | Wylie, Alexander |
| Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) | Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier | Wyndham, George |
| Ryder, John Herbert Dudley | Sutherland, Sir Thomas | Wyndham-Quin, Major W.H. |
| Sandys, Lieut.-Col. T. Myles | Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf. Univ. | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Savory, Sir Joseph | Thornton, Percy M. | Young, Commander (Berks, E.) |
| Scobel, Sir Andrew Richard | Tollemache, Henry James | |
| Seely, Charles Hilton | Tomlinson, W. E. Murray | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Sharpe, William Edward T. | Tritton, Charles Ernest | |
| Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) | Usborne, Thomas. |
NOES.
| ||
| Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N. E.) | Hedderwick, Thomas C. H. | Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham) |
| Asher, Alexander | Holland, W. H. (York, W.R.) | Pearson, Sir Weetman D. |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Horniman, Frederick John | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |
| Atherley-Jones, L. | Jameson, Major J. Eustace | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Joicey, Sir James | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Balfour. Rt Hn J. Blair (Clackm. | Jones, William (Carnarvonsh. | Roberts, John H. (Denbighsh) |
| Billson, Alfred | Kearley, Hudson E. | Robson, William (Snowdon) |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Kilbride, Denis | Runciman, Walter |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cumb'l'd | Sinclair, Capt. J. (Forfarshire |
| Burns, John | Lewis, John Herbert | Souttar, Robinson |
| Caldwell, James | Macaleese, Daniel | Steadman, William Charles |
| Cameron, Sir Charles (Glasgow) | MacDonnell, Dr M A (Queen'sC) | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Cawley, Frederick | M'Dermott, Patrick | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Channing, Francis Allston | M'Ewan, William | Ure, Alexander |
| Crilly, Daniel | M'Leod, John | Wallace, Robert |
| Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) | Maddison, Fred. | Walton, John Lawson (Leeds, S. |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Maden, John Henry | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Whiteley, George (Stockport) |
| Dillon, John | Morgan, W. P. (Merthyr) | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) | Williams, John Carvell (Notts |
| Fenwick, Charles | Moss, Samuel | Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough) |
| Gourley, Sir E. Temperley | Moulton, John Fletcher | Woodhouse, Sir J T (Huddersf'd |
| Harwood, George | O'Connor, Arthur (Donegal) | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Hayne, Rt. Hon. Chas. Seale- | O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Captain Norton and Mr. Pirie. |
| Hazell, Walter | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | |
| Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) | Oldroyd, Mark | |
31. £64,070, to complete the sum for Mercantile Marine Services.
32 £6, to complete the sum for the Bankruptcy Department of the Board of Trade.
33. Motion made, and Question put "That a sum, not exceeding £28,919, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the
AYES.
| ||
| Aird, John | Blundell, Colonel Henry | Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Bond, Edward | Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Charrington, Spencer |
| Arnold, Alfred | Boulnois, Edmund | Chelsea, Viscount |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Bousfield, William Robert | Clare, Octavius Leigh |
| Bagot, Capt. Joseline FitzRoy | Brassey, Albert | Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. |
| Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manchr' | Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Coghill, Douglas Harry |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. G.W. (Leeds) | Bullard, Sir Harry | Cohen, Benjamin Lewis |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Burdett-Coutts, W. | Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse |
| Barnes, Frederic Gorrell | Butcher, John George | Colston, Chas. Ed. H. Athole |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) | Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) |
| Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin | Carlile, William Walter | Cooke, C. W. Radcliffe (Heref'd) |
| Beach. Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol | Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh. | Cornwalls, Fiennes Stanley W. |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Cayzer, Sir Charles William | Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge |
| Bethell, Commander | Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) | Cripps, Charles Alfred |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Curzon, Viscount |
| Bigwood, James | Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. | Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh |
sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Board of Agriculture, and to pay certain Grants in Aid."
The Committee divided:—Ayes, 196; Noes, 77. (Division List, No. 349.)
| Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) | Johnston, William (Belfast) | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) |
| Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Keswick, William | Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye |
| Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Kimber, Henry | Round, James |
| Donkin, Richard Sim | Knowles, Lees | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Doughty, George | Lawrence, Sir E. Durning-(Corn | Ryder, John Herbert Dudley |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) | Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles |
| Doxford, William Theodore | Lea, Sir Thomas (Londonderry | Savory, Sir Joseph |
| Drucker, A. | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Seoble, Sir Andrew Richard |
| Duncombe. Hon. Hubert V. | Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Swans. | Seely, Charles Hilton |
| Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart | Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. | Sharpe, William Edward T. |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) |
| Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Long, Col. C. W. (Evesham) | Sidebottom, William (Derbysh. |
| Finch, George H. | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Liverpool | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Lorne, Marquess of | Spencer, Ernest |
| Firbank, Joseph Thomas | Lowe, Francis William | Stanley, Hon. A. (Ormskirk |
| Fisher, William Hayes | Lowles, John | Stanley, Edward J. (Somerset) |
| Fison, Frederick William | Macartney, W. G. Ellison | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| FitzWygram, General Sir F. | Macdona, John Cumming | Stephens, Henry Charles |
| Flannery, Sir Fortescue | MacIver, David (Liverpool) | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. |
| Flower, Ernest | Maclure, Sir John William | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) | M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Strauss, Arthur |
| Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Malcolm, Ian | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Fry, Lewis | Manners, Lord Edward Wm. J. | Sturt, Hon. H. Napier |
| Galloway, William Johnson | Maple, Sir John Blundell | Sutherland, Sir Thomas |
| Gedge, Sydney | Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) | Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'dU. |
| Gibbons, J. Lloyd | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H (City of Lond. | Milward, Colonel Victor | Tolleimache, Henry James |
| Gibbs, Hon. Vicary (St. Albans | Monk, Charles James | Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray |
| Giles, Charles Tyrell | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Gilliat, John Saunders | More, Rbt. Jasper (Shropshire) | Usborne, Thomas |
| Goldsworthy, Major-General | Morrell, George Herbert | Valentia, Viscount |
| Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford) | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard |
| Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon | Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute) | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Goschen, Rt Hn G. J. (St George's | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) | Warde. Lt.-Col. C. E. (Kent) |
| Goulding, Edward Alfred | Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Newdigate, Francis Alexander | Williams, J. Powell-(Birm.) |
| Greene, Henry D.(Shrewsbury) | Nicholson, William Graham | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N.) |
| Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) | Nicol, Donald Ninian | Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.) |
| Greville, Hon. Ronald | Northcote, Hn. Sir H. Stafford | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath |
| Gull, Sir Cameron | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. | Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham) | Wylie, Alexander |
| Hermon-Hodge, Robert Trotter | Parkes, Ebenezer | Wyndham, George |
| Hill, Rt. Hn. A. Staveley (Staffs. | Pierpoint, Robert | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry | Pollock, Harry Frederick | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Howard, Joseph | Pryce- Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | Young, Commander (Berks, E.) |
| Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil | Purvis, Robert | |
| Jackson, Rt. Hon. Wm. Lawies | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick | Richards, Henry Charles | |
| Jenkins, Sir John Jones | Ridley, Rt, Hn. Sir Matthew W. | |
| Jessel. Capt. Herbert Merton | Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson |
NOES.
| ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.) | Hedderwick, Thomas Chas. H. | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) |
| Asher, Alexander | Holland, Wm. H. (York, W.R.) | Pearson, Sir Weetman D. |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Horniman, Frederick, John | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |
| Atherley-Jones, L. | Jameson, Major J. Eustace | Pirie, Duncan V. |
| Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Joicey, Sir James | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Balfour, Rt Hn J Blair (Clackm. | Jones, William (Carnarvonsh. | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Billson, Alfred | Kearley, Hudson E. | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Kilbride, Denis | Robson, William Snowdon |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cumb'land | Runciman, Walter |
| Burns, John | Lewis, John Herbert | Sinclair, Capt. J.(Forfarshire) |
| Caldwell, James | Lloyd-George, David | Souttar, Robinson |
| Cameron, Sir Charles (Glasgow | Macaleese, Daniel | Steadman, William Charles |
| Cawley, Frederick | MacDonnell, Dr. M. A. (Qn's. C.) | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Crilly, Daniel | M'Dermott, Patrick | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) | M'Ewan, William | Ure, Alexander |
| Dalziel, James Henry | M'Leod, John | Wallace, Robert |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Maddison, Fred. | Walton, J. Lawson (Leeds, S.) |
| Dillon, John | Maden, John Henry | Whiteley, George (Stockport) |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Fenwick, Charles | Morgan, W. P. (Merthyr) | Williams, John C. (Notts.) |
| Gourley, Sir Edward Temperley | Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) | Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough) |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | Moss, Samuel | Wood house, Sir J. T. (Huddsfld) |
| Harwood, George | Moulton, John Fletcher | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Hayne, Rt. Hon. Chas. Seale- | Norton, Capt. Cecil William | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. Channing and Mr Warner. |
| Hazell, Walter | O'Connor, Arthur (Donegal) | |
| Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) | O'Connor, J. (Wicklow, W.) | |
34. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £132,732, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the
AYES.
| ||
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Fisher, William Hayes | Morrell, George Herbert |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Fison, Frederick William | Morton, Arthur H. A. (Deptford |
| Arnold, Alfred | FitzWygram, General Sir F. | Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute) |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) |
| Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy | Flower, Ernest | Murray, Col Wyndham (Bath) |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r) | Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) | Newdigate, Francis Alexander |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. G. W. (Leeds) | Fry, Lewis | Nicholson, William Graham |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. J. B. (Clackm.) | Galloway, William Johnson | Nicol, Donald Ninian |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Gedge, Sydney | Northcote, Hon. Sir H. Stafford |
| Barnes, Frederic Gorell | Gibbons, J. Lloyd | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Gibbs, Hn A. G. H. (Cy. of Lond.) | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin | Gibbs, Hon. Vicary (St. Albans | Pierpoint, Robert |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Brstl.) | Giles, Charles Tyrrell | Pollock, Harry Frederick |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Gilliat, John Saunders | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward |
| Bethell, Commander | Goldsworthy, Major-General | Purvis, Robert |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne |
| Bigwood, James | Gorst, Rt. Hn. Sir John Eldon | Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir M. W. |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Goschen, Rt. Hn. G. J. (St. Geo's) | Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson |
| Bond, Edward | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye |
| Boulnois, Edmund | Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury | Round, James |
| Bousfield, William Robert | Greene, W. Raymond- (Cambs.) | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Brassey, Albert | Greville, Hon. Ronald | Ryder, John Herbert Dudley |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Gull, Sir Cameron | Sandys, Lieut.-Col. T. Myles |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Hanbury, Rt. Hn. Robt. Wm. | Savory, Sir Joseph |
| Burdett-Coutts. W. | Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale- | Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard |
| Butcher, John George | Hermon-Hodge, R. Trotter | Seely, Charles Hilton |
| Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) | Hill, Rt. Hon. A. S. (Staffs.) | Sharpe, William Edward T. |
| Carlile, William Walter | Houldsworth. Sir Wm. Henry | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) |
| Causton, Richard Knight | Howard, Joseph | Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbysh.) |
| Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbys. | Hozier, Hon. James Hy. Cecil | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
| Cayzer, Sir Charles William | Jackson, Rt. Hon. Wm. Lawies | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, E.) | Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick | Spencer, Ernest |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton | Stanley, Hon. A. (Ormskirk) |
| Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. | Johnston, William (Belfast) | Stanley, Edward J. (Somerset) |
| Chamberlain, J. A. (Worc'r) | Keswick, William | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Kimber, Henry | Stephens, Henry Charles |
| Charrington, Spencer | Knowles, Lees | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir J. M. |
| Chelsea, Viscount | Lawrenee, Sir E. Durning- (Corn | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) | Strauss, Arthur |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Lea, Sir Thos. (Londonderry) | Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Sutherland, Sir Thomas |
| Colston, Chas. Ed. H. Athole | Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Swan.) | Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'd Univ. |
| Cook, Fred Lucas (Lambeth) | Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Cooke, C. W. Radcliffe (Heref'd | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Tollemache, Henry James |
| Cornwallis, Fiennes S. W. | Long, Col. C. W. (Evesham) | Tomlinson, Wm. E. Murray |
| Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge | Long, Rt. Hn. W. (Liverpool) | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Cripps, Charles Alfred | Lorne, Marquess of | Usborne, Thomas |
| Curzon, Viscount | Lowe, Francis William | Valentia, Viscount |
| Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh | Lowles, John | Vincent, Col. C. E. Howard |
| Dalkieth, Earl of | Macartney, W. G. Ellison | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Davies, Sir Horatio D. (Chat'm | Macdona, John Cumming | Warde, Lt.-Col. C. E. (Kent) |
| Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | MacIver, David (Liverpool) | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Donkin, Richard Sim | Maclure, Sir John William | Williams, Jos. Powell-(Birm. |
| Doughty, George | M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.) |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Malcolm, Ian | Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.) |
| Doxford, William Theodore | Manners, Lord Edward W. J. | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath) |
| Drucker, A. | Maple, Sir John Blundell | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) | Wylie, Alexander |
| Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir Wm. Hart | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Wyndham, George |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw. | Milward, Colonel Victor | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Monk, Charles James | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Finch, George H. | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Moore, William (Antrim, N.) | |
| Firbank, Joseph Thomas | More, R. Jasper (Shropshire) | |
year ending on the 31st day of March 1900, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Local Government Board."
The Committee divided:—Ayes, 196; Noes, 72. (Division List, No. 350.)
NOES.
| ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E. | Joicey, Sir James | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |
| Asher, Alexander | Jones, William (Carnarvonsh. | Pirie, Duncan V. |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Kearley, Hudson E. | Provaud, Andrew Dryburgh |
| Atherley-Jones, L. | Kilbride, Denis | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumberland) | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Billson, Alfred | Lewis, John Herbert | Roberts, John H. (Denbighsh. |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Lloyd-George, David | Robson, William Snowdon |
| Burns, John | Macaleese, Daniel | Runciman, Walter |
| Caldwell, James | MacDonnell, Dr M A (Qu'n's C. | Sinclair, Capt. J. (Forfarshire) |
| Cameron, Sir Charles (Glasgow | M'Dermott, Patrick | Souttar, Robinson |
| Cawley, Frederick | M'Ewan, William | Steadman, William Charles |
| Crilly, Daniel | M'Leod, John | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) | Maddison, Fred. | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Maden, John Henry | Ure, Alexander |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Wallace, Robert |
| Fenwick, Charles | Morgan, W. Pritchard (Merth'r | Walton, John Lawson (Leeds, S) |
| Gourley, Sir Edward Temperley | Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) | Whiteley, George (Stockport) |
| Griffitn, Ellis J. | Moss, Samuel | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Harwood, George | Moulton, John Fletcher | Williams, John Carvell (Notts |
| Hazell, Walter | Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Wilson, Jos. H. (Middlesbr'gh |
| Healy, Timothy M.(N. Louth) | O'Connor Arthur (Donegal) | Woodhouse, Sir J T (Huddersf'd. |
| Hedderwick, Thomas Chas. H. | O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Holland, W. H. (York, W.R.) | Oldroyd, Mark | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. Channing and Mr. Broadhurst. |
| Horniman, Frederick John | Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham) | |
| Jameson, Major J. Eustace | Pearson, Sir Weetman D. | |
35. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £13,000, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March
AYES.
| ||
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Chamberlain, J. A. (Worc'r.) | Fisher, William Hayes |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Fison, Frederick William |
| Arnold, Alfred | Charrington, Spencer | FitzWygram, General Sir F. |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Chelsea, Viscount | Flannery, Sir Fortescue |
| Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy | Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Flower, Ernest |
| Balfour, Rt Hn A. J. (Manch'r | Coghill, Douglas Harry | Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) |
| Balfour, Rt Hon G. W. (Leeds | Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Fry, Lewis |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Galloway, William Johnson |
| Barnes, Frederic Gorell | Colston, Chas. E. H. Athole | Gedge, Sydney |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) | Gibbons, J. Lloyd |
| Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin | Cooke, C. W. Radeliffe (Heref'd) | Gibbs. Hn A. G. H. (City of Lond. |
| Beach, Rt Hn Sir M. H. (Bristol | Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W. | Gibbs, Hon. Vicary (St. Albans) |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Cox, Irwin Edwd. Bainbridge | Giles, Charles Tyrrell |
| Bethell, Commander | Cripps, Charles Edward | Gilliat, John Saunders |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Curzon, Viscount | Goldsworthy, Major-General |
| Bigwood, James | Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh | Gordon, Hon. John Edward |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Dalkeith, Earl of | Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon |
| Bond, Edward | Davies, Sir Horatio D. (Chath'm | Goschen, Rt Hn G. J. (St. Georg's |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Goulding, Edward Alfred |
| Boulnois, Edmund | Dilke, Rt. Hn. Sir Charles | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) |
| Bousfield, William Robert | Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury) |
| Brassey, Albert | Donkin, Richard Sim | Greene, W. Raymond- (Cambs.) |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Doughty, George | Greville, Hon. Ronald |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Gull, Sir Cameron |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Doxford, William Theodore | Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. |
| Butcher, John George | Drucker, A. | Harwood, George |
| Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) | Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Hermon-Hodge, Robt. Trotter |
| Carlile, William Walter | Dyke. Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart | Hill, Rt. Hn. A. Staveley (Staffs. |
| Cavendish, V.C.W. (Derbysh.) | Fellowes, Hn. Ailwyn Edward | Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry |
| Cayzer, Sir Charles William | Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Howard, Joseph |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) | Finch, George H. | Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Jackson, Rt. Hon. Wm. Lawies |
| Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. | Firbank, Joseph Thomas | Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick |
1900, for Her Majesty's Foreign and other Secret Services."
The Committee divided:—Ayes, 201; Noes, 71. (Division List, No. 351).
| Jenkins, Sir John Jones | Morgan, W. Pritchard (Merthyr | Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk) |
| Jessel, Captain Herbert Merton | Morrell, George Herbert | Stanley, Edward Jas. (Somerset |
| Johnston, William (Belfast) | Morton, Arthur H. A. (Deptford | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Keswick, William | Murray, Rt. Hon. A. G. (Bute | Stephens, Henry Charles |
| Kimber, Henry | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. |
| Knowles, Lees | Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Lawrence, Sir E. Durning-(Corn | Newdigate, Francis Alexander | Strauss, Arthur |
| Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool | Nicholson, William Graham | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Lawson, John Grant (Yorks) | Nicol, Donald Ninian | Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier |
| Lea, Sir Thomas (Londonderry) | Northcote, Hon. Sir. H. Stafford | Sutherland, Sir Thomas |
| Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay | Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxford U.) |
| Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn- (Swan. | Parkes, Ebenezer | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. | Pierpoint, Robert | Tollemache, Henry James |
| Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Pollock, Harry Frederick | Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray |
| Long, Col. C. W. (Evesham) | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Long, Rt. Hon. W. (Liverpool) | Purvis, Robert | Usborne, Thomas |
| Lorne, Marquess of | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne | Valentia, Viscount |
| Lowe, Francis William | Rickett, J. Compton | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard |
| Lowles, John | Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W. | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Macartney, W. G. Ellison | Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson | Warde Lt.-Col. C. E. (Kent) |
| Macdona, John Cumming | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| MacIver, David (Liverpool) | Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Maclure, Sir John William | Round, James | Williams, Jos. Powell- (Birm.) |
| M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.) |
| Malcolm, Ian | Ryder, John Herbert Dudley | Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks) |
| Manners, Lord Edward Wm. J. | Sandys, Lieut.-Col. Thos. Myles | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath |
| Maple, Sir John Blundell | Savory, Sir Joseph | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) | Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard | Wylie, Alexander |
| Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Seely, Charles Hilton | Wyndham, George |
| Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Sharpe, William Edward T. | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Milwand, Colonel Victor | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Monk, Charles James | Sidebottom, William (Derbysh. | Young, Commander(Berks, E.) |
| Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Simeon, Sir Barrington | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Moore, William (Antrim, N.) | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) | |
| More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire) | Spencer, Ernest |
NOES.
| ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E. | Holland, Wm. H. (York, W. R.) | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |
| Asher, Alexander | Horniman, Frederick John | Pirie, Duncan V. |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Joicey, Sir James | Provand, Andrew Dryburgh |
| Atherley-Jones, L. | Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Balfour, Rt Hn J. Blair (Clackm. | Kearley, Hudson E. | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) |
| Billson, Alfred | Kilbride, Denis | Robson, William Snowdon |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cumb'land | Runciman, Walter |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Lewis, John Herbert | Sinclair, Capt. J. (Forfarshire) |
| Burns, John | Lloyd-George, David | Souttar, Robinson |
| Caldwell, James | Macaleese, Daniel | Steadman, William Charles |
| Cameron, Sir Charles (Glasgow) | MacDonnell, Dr M A (Queen'sC. | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Causton, Richard Knight | M'Dermott, Patrick | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Cawley, Frederick | M'Ewan, William | Ure, Alexander |
| Channing, Francis Allston | M'Leod, John | Wallace, Robert |
| Crilly, Daniel | Maddison, Fred. | Walton, J. Lawson (Leeds, S.) |
| Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) | Maden, John Henry | Whiteley, George (Stockport) |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Moss, Samnel | Williams, John Carvell (Notts. |
| Fenwick, Charles | Moulton, John Fletcher | Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough) |
| Gourley, Sir Edward Temperley | Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Hddersf'd |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | O'Connor, Arthur (Donegal) | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Hayne, Rt. Hon. Chas. Seale- | O'Connor, J. (Wicklow, W.) | |
| Hazell, Walter | Oldroyd, Mark | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Major Jameson and Mr. Pirie. |
| Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) | Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham) | |
| Hedderwick, Thos. Charles H. | Pearson, Sir Weetman D. | |
36. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £16,169, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1900, for the Salaries and Expenses of
the Fishery Board in Scotland and for Grants in Aid of Piers or Quays."
The Committee proceeded to a Division, and the Chairman stated that he thought the Ayes had it; and on his decision.
being challenged it appeared to him that the Division was frivolously claimed, and he accordingly directed the Noes to stand up in their places, and five Members having stood up, the Chairman declared that the Ayes had it.
37. £8,000, to complete the sum for the Local Government Board for Scotland.
38. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £28,782, be
AYES.
| ||
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Lowles, John |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir Wm. Hart | Macartney, W. G. Ellison |
| Arnold, Alfred | Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw. | Macdona, John Cumming |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | MacIver, David (Liverpool) |
| Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy | Finch, George H. | Maclure, Sir John William |
| Balfour, Rt. Hon. G. W. (Leeds) | Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Firbank, Joseph Thomas | Malcom, Ian |
| Barnes, Frederick Gorell | Fisher, William Hayes | Manners, Lord Edward W. J. |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Fison, Frederick William | Maple, Sir John Blundell |
| Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin | FitzWygram, General Sir F. | Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H.(Bristol) | Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Mildmay, Francis Bingham |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Flower, Ernest | Milward, Colonel Victor |
| Bethell, Commander | Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) | Monk, Charles James |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Fry, Lewis | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy |
| Bigwood, James | Galloway, William Johnson | Moore, William (Antrim, N.) |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Gedge, Sydney | More, Robt. J. (Shropshire) |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Gibbons, J. Lloyd | Morrell, George Herbert |
| Boulnois, Edmund | Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H. (Cy. of Lond. | Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford) |
| Bousfield, William Robert | Gibbs, Hon. Vicary (St. Albans) | Murray, Rt. Hon. A. G. (Bute) |
| Brassey, Albert | Giles, Charles Tyrrell | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Gilliat, John Saunders | Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Goldsworthy, Major-General | Newdigate, Francis Alexander |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Nicholson, William Graham |
| Butcher, John George | Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir J. Eldon | Nicol, Donald Ninian |
| Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) | Goschen, Rt Hn G J(St. George's) | Northcote, Hn. Sir H. Staff'd |
| Carlile, William Walter | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay |
| Cavendish, V. C.W. (Derbysh.) | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | |
| Cayzer, Sir Charles William | Greene, Hy. D. (Shrewsbury) | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, E.) | Greene, W. Raymond (Cambs.) | Pierpoint, Robert |
| Cecil Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Greville, Hon. Ronald | Pollock, Harry Frederick |
| Chaloner, Captain R. G. W | Gull, Sir Cameron | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.) | Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert W. | Purvis, Robert |
| Chamberlain, J. A. (Worc'r) | Hermon-Hodge, Robert T. | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne |
| Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Hill, Rt. Hn. A. Staveley (Staffs. | Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir M. W. |
| Charrington, Spencer | Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry | Richie, Rt. Hon. Charles T. |
| Chelsea, Viscount | Howard, Joseph | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) |
| Cochrane, Hon. T. H. A. E. | Hozier, Hon. James Hy. Cecil | Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Jackson, Rt. Hon.Wm. Lawies | Round, James |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Jenkins, Sir John Jones | Ryder, John Herbert Dudley |
| Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole | Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton | Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles |
| Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) | Johnston, William (Belfast) | Savory, Sir Joseph |
| Cooke, C. W. R. (Hereford) | Keswick, William | Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard |
| Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W. | Kimber, Henry | Seely, Charles Hilton |
| Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge | Knowles, Lees | Sharpe, William Edward T. |
| Cripps, Charles Alfred | Lawrence, Sir E Durning-(Corn. | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) |
| Curzon, Viscount | Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) | Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbysh.) |
| Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Lea, Sir Thomas (Londonderry | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Davies, Sir Horatio D. (Chatham | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Spencer, Ernest |
| Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Swans. | Stanley, Hon. A. (Ormskirk) |
| Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. | Stanley, Edward Jas. (Somerset |
| Donkin, Richard Sim | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Doughty, George | Long, Col. C. W. (Evesham) | Stephens, Henry Charles |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Long Rt. Hn. W. (Liverpool) | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. |
| Doxford, William Theodore | Lorne, Marquess of | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Drucker, A. | Lowe, Francis William | Strauss, Arthur |
granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1900, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Offices of the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant in Dublin and London, and Subordinate Departments."
The Committee Divided: Ayes, 193; Noes, 75. (Division List, No. 352.)
| Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard | Wylie, Alexander |
| Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier | Wanklyn, James Leslie | Wyndham, George |
| Sutherland, Sir Thomas | Warde, Lt.-Col. C. E. (Kent) | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf. Univ. | Whitmore, Charles Algernon | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Thornton, Percy M. | Williams, Jos. Powell- (Birm.) | Young, Commander (Berks, E.) |
| Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.) | |
| Tritton, Charles Ernest | Wilson-Todd, Wm. H.(Yorks.) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Usborne, Thomas | Wodehouse, Rt, Hn. E. R, (Bath) | |
| Valentia, Viscount | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
NOES.
| ||
| Abraham, William(Cork, N. E. | Holland, W. H. (York, W. R.) | Palmer, Sir Charles M. (Durham |
| Asher, Alexander | Horniman, Frederick John | Pearson, Sir Weetman D. |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Jameson, Major J. Eustace | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |
| Atherley-Jones, L. | Joicey, Sir James | Pirie, Duncan V. |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. J. Blair (Clackm | Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) | Provand, Andrew Dryburgh |
| Billson, Alfred | Kearley, Hudson E. | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Kilbride, Denis | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cumb'land | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs) |
| Burns, John | Lewis, John Herbert | Robson, William Snowdon |
| Caldwell, James | Lloyd-George, David | Runciman, Walter |
| Cameron, Sir Charles(Glasgow) | Macaleese, Daniel | Souttar, Robinson |
| Cawley, Frederick | MacDonnell, Dr M A (Queen'sC. | Steadman, William Charles |
| Channing, Francis Allston | M'Dermott, Patrick | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Crilly, Daniel | M'Ewan, William | Ure, Alexander |
| Curran, Thomas B. (Donegal) | M'Leod, John | Wallace, Robert |
| Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) | Maddison, Fred. | Walton, John Lawson (Leeds. S. |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Maden, John Henry | Warner, Thos. Courtenay T |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Fenwick, Charles | Morgan, W. P. (Merthyr) | Williams, John Carvell (Notts.) |
| Gourley, Sir E. Temperley | Morton, Ed W. J. C. (Devonport) | Wilson, Jos. H. (Middlesbrough |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | Moss, Samuel | Woodhouse, Sir J T (Huddersf'd |
| Harwood, George | Moulton, John Fletcher | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Hayne, Rt. Hon. Chas. Seale- | Norton, Capt. Cecil William | |
| Hazells, Walter | O'Connor, Arthur (Donegal) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Captain Donelan and Mr. Donal Sullivan. |
| Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) | O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. | |
| Hedderwick, Thomas C. H. | Oldroyd, Mark | |
39. £27,479, to complete the sum for the Local Government Board, Ireland.
Class Iii
40. £60,806, to complete the sum for Law Charges and Courts of Law, Scotland.
41. £29,565, to complete the sum for the Register House, Edinburgh.
42. £3,000, to complete the sum for the Crofters' Commission.
AYES.
| ||
| Aird, John | Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benj. | Brassey, Albert |
| Allsopp, Hon. Ceorge | Beach. Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. -(Brist'l | Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Bullard, Sir Harry |
| Arnold, Alfred | Bethell, Commander | Burdett-Coutts, W. |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Bigwood, James | Butcher, John George |
| Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy | Blundell, Colonel Henry | Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) |
| Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W.(Leeds | Bond, Edward | Carlile, William Walter |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh |
| Barnes, Frederic Gorell | Boulnois, Edmund | Cayzer, Sir Charles William |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Bousfield, William Robert | Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, E.) |
43. £53,180, to complete the sum for Prisons, Scotland.
44. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum not exceeding £71,777 be granted to Her Majesty to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March,1900, for such of the Salaries and Expenses of the Supreme Court of Judicature and of certain other Legal Departments in Ireland as are not charged on the Consolidated Fund."
The Committee divided:—Ayes, 188; Noes, 69. (Division List, No. 353.)
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Greville, Hon. Ronald | Pollock, Harry Frederick |
| Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. | Gull, Sir Cameron | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.) | Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert W. | Purvis, Robert |
| Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r | Hill, Rt. Hn. A. Staveley (Staffs. | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne |
| Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Howard, Joseph | Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W. |
| Charrington, Spencer | Hozier, Hon. James Henry C. | Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson |
| Chelsea, Viscount | Jackson, Rt. Hon. Wm. Lawies | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick | Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Jenkins, Sir John Jones | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton | Ryder, John Herbert Dudley |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Johnston, William (Belfast) | Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles |
| Colston, Chas. E. W. Athole | Keswick, William | Savory, Sir Joseph |
| Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) | Kimber, Henry | Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard |
| Cooke, C. W. Radcliffe (Heref'd) | Knowles, Lees | Seely, Charles Hilton |
| Cornwallis, Fiennes S. W. | Lawrence, Sir E. Durning-(Corn | Sharpe, William Edward T. |
| Cox, Irwin E. Bainbridge | Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) |
| Curzon, Viscount | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) | Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbysh.) |
| Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh | Lea, Sir Thos. (Londonderry) | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Sinclair, Louis (Romford) |
| Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) | Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Sw'ns'a | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Dickson-Poynder, Sir J. P. | Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. | Spencer, Ernest |
| Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk |
| Donkin, Richard Sim | Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham) | Stanley, Edward J. (Somerset) |
| Doughty, George | Long, Rt. Hon. W. (Liverpool) | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Lorne, Marquess of | Stephens, Henry Charles |
| Doxford, William Theodore | Lowe, Francis William | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. |
| Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Lowles, John | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Hart | Macartney, W. G. Ellison | Strauss, Arthur |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw. | Macdona, John Cimming | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | MacIver, David (Liverpool) | Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier |
| Finch, George H. | Maclure, Sir John William | Sutherland, Sir Thomas |
| Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Ox.Uni.) |
| Firbank, Joseph Thomas | Malcolm, Ian | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Fisher, William Hayes | Manners, Lord Edward W. J. | Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray |
| Fison, Frederick William | Maple, Sir John Blundell | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| FitzWygram, General Sir F. | Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) | Usborne, Thomas |
| Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Valentia, Viscount |
| Flower, Ernest | Milward, Colonel Victor | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. H. |
| Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) | Monk, Charles James | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Fry, Lewis | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Warde, Lieut.-Col. C. E. (Kent) |
| Galloway, William Johnson | Moore, William (Antrim, N.) | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Gedge, Sydney | More, R. Jasper (Shropshire) | Williams, J. Powell- (Birm.) |
| Gibbons, J. Lloyd | Morrell. George Herbert | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N.) |
| Gibbs, Hn.A.G. H.(City of Lond | Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford) | Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks). |
| Giles, Charles Tyrrell | Murray, Rt Hn A. Graham (Bute | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath) |
| Gilliat, John Saunders | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) | Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart- |
| Goldsworthy, Major-General | Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) | Wylie, Alexander |
| Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Newdigate, Francis Alexander | Wyndham, George |
| Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon | Nicholson, William Graham | Wyndham-Quin, Major H. W. |
| Goschen, Rt Hn G J (St George's) | Nicol, Donald Ninian | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Goulding, Edward Alfred | Northcote, Hn. Sir H. Stafford | Young, Commander (Berks, E.) |
| Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Greene, H. D. (Shrewsbury) | Parkes, Ebenezer | |
| Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) | Pierpoint, Robert |
NOES.
| ||
| Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N.E.) | Fenwick, Charles | Macaleese, Daniel |
| Asher, Alexander | Gourley, Sir Edw. Temperley | MacDonnell, Dr. M. A. (Qu'n'sC |
| Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Griffith, Ellis J. | M'Dermott, Patrick |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. J. B. (Clackm.) | Hayne, Rt. Hon. Chas. Seale- | M'Ewan, William |
| Billson, Alfred | Hazell, Walter | M'Leod, John |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) | Maddison, Fred. |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Hedderwick, Thos. Chas. H. | Maden, John Henry |
| Burns, John | Holland, Wm. H. (York, W. R.) | Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand |
| Caldwell, James | Horniman, Frederick John | Morgan. W Pritchard (Merthyr |
| Cameron, Sir Chas. (Glasgow) | Jameson, Major J. Eustace | Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) |
| Cawley, Frederick | Joicey, Sir James | Moss, Samuel |
| Channing, Francis Allston | Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) | Moulton, John Fletcher |
| Crilly, Daniel | Kearley, Hudson E. | Norton, Capt. Cecil William |
| Curran, Thos. B. (Donegal) | Kilbride, Denis | O'Connor, Jas. (Wicklow, W.) |
| Curran, Thos. (Sligo, S.) | Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cumb'land | Oldroyd, Mark |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Lewis, John Herbert | Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham) |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Lloyd-George, David | Pearson, Sir Weetman D. |
| Pirie, Duncan V. | Souttar, Robinson | Willams, J. Carvell (Notts.) |
| Provand, Andrew Dryburgh | Steadman, William Charles | Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough |
| Rickett, J. Compton | Trevelyan, Charles Philips | Woodhouse, Sir J T (Huddersf'd |
| Roberts John Bryn (Eifion) | Ure, Alexander | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Roberts. John H. (Denbighs.) | Wallace, Robert | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Captain Donelan and Mr. Donal Sullivan. |
| Robson, William Snowdon | Warner, Thos. Courtney T. | |
| Runciman, Walter | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
45. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £84,484, be granted to Her Majesty to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March,
AYES.
| ||
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Macartney, W. G. Ellison |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Hart | Macdona, John Cumming |
| Arnold. Alfred | Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward | MacIver, David (Liverpool) |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Maclure, Sir John William |
| Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy | Finch, George H. | M'Arthur Charles (Liverpool) |
| Balfour, Rt. Hon. G. W. (Leeds) | Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Malcolm Ian |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Firbank, Joseph Thomas | Manners, Lord Edward W. J. |
| Barnes, Frederic Gorell | Fisher, William Hayes | Maple, Sir John Blundell |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Fison, Frederick William | Mildmay, Francis Bingham |
| Bathurst, Hon. Allen B. | FitzWygram, General Sir F. | Milward, Colonel Victor |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H.-(Bristol | Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Monk, Charles James |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Flower, Ernest | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy |
| Bethell, Commander | Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) | Moore, William (Antrim, N.) |
| Bigwood, James | Fry, Lewis | More, R. Jasper (Shropshire) |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Galloway, William Johnson | Morrell, George Herbert |
| Bond, Edward | Gedge, Sydney | Morton, Arthur H. A. (Deptf'd |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Gibbons, J. Lloyd | Murray, Rt. Hon. A.G. (Bute) |
| Boulnois, Edmund | Gibbs. Hn. A. G H. (City of Lon. | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) |
| Bousfield, William Robert | Giles, Charles Tyrrell | Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath |
| Brassey, Albert | Gilliat, John Saunders | Newdigate, Francis Alexander |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Goldsworthy, Major-General | Nicholson, William Graham |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Nicol, Donald Ninian |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir J. Eldon | Northcote, Hon. Sir H. Stafford. |
| Butcher, John George | Goschen, Rt Hn G. J (St George's | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay |
| Campbell. J. H. M. (Dublin) | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Carlile, William Walter | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Pierpoint, Robert |
| Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.) | Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsby. | Pollock, Harry Frederick |
| Cayzer, Sir Charles William | Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs. | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) | Greville, Hon. Ronald | Purvis, Robert |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Gull, Sir Cameron | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne |
| Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. | Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Rbt. Wm. | Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W. |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.) | Hill, Rt. Hn. A. Staveley (Staffs. | Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson |
| Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r | Howard, Joseph | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) |
| Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Hozier, Hon. J. Henry Cecil | Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye |
| Charrington, Spencer | Jackson, Rt. Hon. Wm. Lawies | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Chelsea, Viscount | Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick | Ryder, John Herbert Dudley |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Jenkins, Sir John Jones | Sandys, Lieut.-Col. T. Myles |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton | Savory, Sir Joseph |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Johnston, William (Belfast) | Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Keswick, William | Seely, Charles Hilton |
| Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole | Kimber, Henry | Sharpe, William Edward T. |
| Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) | Knowles, Lees | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) |
| Cooke, C. W. Radcliffe (Heref'd) | Lawrence, Sir E. Durning-(Corn | Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbyshire) |
| Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W. | Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
| Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Curzon, Vicount | Lea, Sir Thomas (Londonderry | Spencer, Ernest |
| Dalbiac, Colonel Philip Hugh | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Stanley, Hon. A. (Ormskirk) |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Swans, | Stanley, E. James (Somerset) |
| Davies, Sir Horatio D (Chatham | Lockwood, Lt-Col. A. R. | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Stephens, Henry Charles |
| Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. |
| Donkin, Richard Sim | Long, Rt. Hn Walter (Liverpool | Stone, Sir Benjamir |
| Doughty, George | Lorne, Marquess of | Strauss, Arthur |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Lowe, Francis William | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Doxford, William Theodore | Lowles, John | Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier. |
1900, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Irish Land Commission."
The Committee divided:—Ayes, 186; Noes, 66. (Division List, No. 354.)
| Sutherland, Sir Thomas | Wanklyn, James Leslie | Wylie, Alexander |
| Talbot, Rt Hn J. G. (Oxf'dUniv.) | Warde, Lt.-Col. C. E. (Kent) | Wyndham, George |
| Thornton, Percy M. | Whitmore, Charles Algernon | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Tomlinson, Wm. E. Murray | Williams, J. Powell- (Birm.) | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Tritton, Charles Ernest | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh., N | Young, Commander (Berks, E.) |
| Usborne, Thomas | Wilson-Todd, Wm. H.(Yorks.) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Valentia, Viscount | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath) | |
| Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard | Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart- |
NOES.
| ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E. | Horniman, Frederick John | Oldroyd, Mark |
| Asher, Alexander | Jameson, Major J. Eustace | Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham) |
| Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Joicey, Sir James | Pearson, Sir Weetman D. |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. J. B. (Clackm.) | Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) | Pirie, Duncan V. |
| Billson, Alfred | Kearley, Hudson, E. | Provand, Andrew Dryburgh |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Kilbride, Denis | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cumb'l'nd | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Burns, John | Lewis, John Herbert | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs) |
| Caldwell, James | Lloyd-George, David | Robson, William Snowdon |
| Cameron, Sir Charles (Glasgow) | Macaleese, Daniel | Runciman, Walter |
| Channing, Francis Allston | MacDonnell, Dr. M. A.(Qn's C. | Souttar, Robinson |
| Crilly, Daniel | M'Dermott, Patrick | Steadman, William Charles |
| Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) | M'Ewan, William | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Dalziel, James Henry | M'Leod, John | Ure, Alexander |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Maddison, Fred. | Wallace, Robert |
| Fenwick, Charles | Maden, John Henry | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| Gourley, Sir Ed. Temperley | Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Williams, John Carvell (Notts |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | Morgan, W. Pritchard (Merthyr | Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough |
| Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale- | Morton, E. J. C. (Devonport) | Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Hudderf'd |
| Hazell, Walter | Moss, Samuel | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) | Moulton, John Fletcher | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Captain Donelan and Mr. Donal Sullivan. |
| Hedderwiek, Thomas Chas. H. | Norton, Capt. Cecil William | |
| Holland, Wm. H. (York. W. R.) | O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. | |
46. £75,675, to complete the sum for County Court Officers, &c., Ireland.
47. £63,316, to complete the sum for Dublin Metropolitan Police.
48. Motion made, and Question put," That a sum, not exceeding £750,900,
AYES.
| ||
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.) | Doughty, George |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Cayzer, Sir Charles William | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- |
| Arnold, Alfred | Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) | Doxford, William Theodore |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. | Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. |
| Bagot, Capt. Joseeline FitzRoy | Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm. | Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart |
| Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W (Leeds | Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r | Fellowes, Hn. Ailwyn Edward |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) |
| Barnes, Frederic Gorell | Charrington, Spencer | Finch, George H. |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Chelsea, Viscount | Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne |
| Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin | Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Firbank, Joseph Thomas |
| Beach, Rt. Hn Sir M. H. (Bristol) | Coghill, Douglas Harry | Fisher, William Hayes |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Fison, Frederick William |
| Bethell, Commander | Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | FitzWygram, General Sir F. |
| Bigwood, James | Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole | Flannery, Sir Fortescue |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) | Flower, Ernest |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Cooke, C. W. Radcliffe (Heref d) | Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) |
| Bousfield, William Robert | Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W. | Fry, Lewis |
| Brassey, Albert | Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge | Galloway, William Johnson |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Curzon, Viscount | Gedge, Sydney |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Dalkeith, Earl of | Gibbons, J. Lloyd |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Davies, Sir Horatio D (Chatham | Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H. (City of Lond |
| Butcher, John George | Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Giles, Charles Tyrrell |
| Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) | Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Gilliat, John Saunders |
| Carlile, William Walter | Donkin, Richard Sim | Goldsworthy, Major-General |
be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900, for the Expenses of the Royal Irish Constabulary."
The Committee divided:—Ayes, 178; Noes, 64. (Division List, No. 355.)
| Gordon, Hon. John Edward | M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbysh.) |
| Gorst, Rt. Hn. Sir John Eldon | Malcolm, Ian | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
| Goschen, Rt. Hn. G. J (St Georg's | Manners, Lord Edward Wm. J. | Smith, Hn. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Goulding, Edward Alfred | Maple, Sir John Blundell | Spencer, Ernest |
| Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Stanley, Hn. Arthur(Ormskirk) |
| Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury) | Milward, Colonel Victor | Stanley, Edw. Jas. (Somerset) |
| Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) | Monk, Charles James | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Greville, Hon. Ronald | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Stephens, Henry Charles |
| Gull, Sir Cameron | Moore, William (Antrim, N.) | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. |
| Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robt. Wm. | More, Robert J. (Shropshire) | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Hill, Rt. Hn. A. Staveley (Staffs. | Morrell, George Herbert | Strauss, Arthur |
| Howard, Joseph | Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford) | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil | Murray, Rt. Hon. A. G. (Bute) | Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier |
| Jackson, Rt. Hon. Wm. Lawies | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) | Sutherland, Sir Thomas |
| Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick | Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Jenkins, Sir John Jones | Newdigate, Francis Alexander | Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray |
| Jessel, Captain Herbert Merton | Nicholson, William Graham | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Johnston, William (Belfast) | Nicol, Donald Ninian | Usborne, Thomas |
| Keswick, William | Northcote, Hn. Sir H. Stafford | Valentia, Viscount |
| Kimber, Henry | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard |
| Knowles, Lees | Pierpoint, Robert | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Lawrence, Sir E. Durning-(Corn | Pollock, Harry Frederick | Warde, Lieut.-Col. C. E. (Kent |
| Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | Williams, Jos. Powell-(Birm.) |
| Lea, Sir Thomas (Londonderry) | Purvis, Robert | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N. |
| Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne | Wilson-Todd. Wm. H. (Yorks.) |
| Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Sw'nsea | Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W. | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath |
| Lockwood, Lt.-Colonel A. R. | Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson | Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart- |
| Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) | Wylie, Alexander |
| Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham) | Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye | Wyndham, George |
| Long, Rt. Hon. W. (Liverpool) | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Lorne, Marquess of | Ryder, John Herbert Dudley | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Lowe, Francis William | Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles | Young, Commander (Berks, E.) |
| Lowles, John | Savory, Sir Joseph | |
| Macartney, W. G. Ellison | Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Macdona, John Cumming | Seely, Charles Hilton | |
| MacIver, David (Liverpool) | Sharpe, William Edward T. | |
| Maclure. Sir John William | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) |
NOES.
| ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E. | Jameson, Major J. Eustace | Palmer, Sir Chas. M. (Durham) |
| Asher, Alexander | Joicey, Sir James | Pearson, Sir Weetman D. |
| Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Jones, W. (Carnarvonshire) | Pirie, Duncan V. |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. J. B. (Clackm.) | Kearley, Hudson E. | Provand, Andrew Dryburgh |
| Billson, Alfred | Kilbride, Denis | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumberland) | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Burns, John | Lewis, John Herbert | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) |
| Caldwell, James | Lloyd-George, David | Robson, William Snowdon |
| Cameron, Sir Chas. (Glasgow) | Macaleese, Daniel | Runciman, Walter |
| Channing, Francis Allston | MacDonnel, Dr. M. A. (Q'n's C). | Souttar, Robinson |
| Crilly, Daniel | M'Dermott, Patrick | Steadman, William Charles |
| Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) | M'Ewan, William | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Dalziel, James Henry | M'Leod, John | Ure, Alexander |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Maddison, Fred. | Wallace, Robert |
| Fenwick, Charles | Maden, John Henry | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| Gourley, Sir Edward T. | Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | Morgan, W. Pritchard (M'rthyr | Williams, J. Carvell (Notts.) |
| Hayne, Rt Hn. Charles Seale- | Morton, E. J.C. (Devonport) | Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Hudd'rfld |
| Hazell, Walter | Moss, Samuel | |
| Healthy, T. M. (N. Louth) | Moulton, John Fletcher | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Captain Donelan and Mr. Donal Sullivan. |
| Hedderwick, Thomas C. H. | Norton, Capt. Cecil William | |
| Holland, Wm. H. (York, W. R. | O'Connor, J. (Wicklow, W.) | |
| Horniman, Frederick John | Oldroyd, Mark | |
49. £69,096, to complete the sum for Prisons, Ireland.
50. £54,669, to complete the sum for Reformatory and Industrial Schools, Ireland.
51. £4,044, to complete the sum for Dundrum Criminal Lunatic Asylum, Ireland.
Class Vi
52. £7,497, to complete the sum for Hospitals and Charities, Ireland.
Class Vii
53. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £10,928 (including a Supplementary sum of £4,000), be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment
AYES.
| ||
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Flower, Ernest | Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) |
| Arnold, Alfred | Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) | Newdigate, Francis Alexander |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Fry, Lewis | Nicholson, William Graham |
| Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy | Galloway, William Johnson | Nicol, Donald Ninian |
| Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W. (Leeds | Gedge, Sydney | Northcote, Hon. Sir H. Stafford |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn J Blair (Clackm. | Gibbons, J. Lloyd | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H. (City of Lon. | |
| Barnes, Frederic Gorell | Giles, Charles Tyrrell | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Gilliat, John Saunders | Pierpoint, Robert |
| Beach. Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol | Gladstone, Rt. Hon. H. John | Pollock, Harry Frederick |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Goldsworthy, Major-General | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward |
| Bethell, Commander | Gordon, Hon. John Edward | Purvis, Robert |
| Bigwood, James | Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Goschen, Rt Hn G. J. (St. Geo.'s) | Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir M. W. |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Ritchie, Rt. Hon. C. Thomson |
| Bousfield, William Robert | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) |
| Brassey, Albert | Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury) | Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hn. St. John. | Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Greville, Hon. Ronald | Ryder, John Herbert Dudley |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Gull, Sir Cameron | Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles |
| Butcher, John George | Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert W. | Savory, Sir Joseph |
| Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) | Hill, Rt, Hon. A. Staveley (Staffs | Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard |
| Carlile, William Walter | Howard, Joseph | Seely, Charles Hilton |
| Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.) | Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil | Sharpe, William Edward T. |
| Cayzer, Sir Charles William | Jackson, Rt. Hon. Wm. Lawies | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) | Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick | Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbyshire) |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Jenkins, Sir John Jones | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. | Johnston, William (Belfast) | Spencer, Ernest |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm. | Keswick, William | Stanley, Hon. A. (Ormskirk) |
| Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r | Kimber, Henry | Stanley, Edward Jas. (Somerset |
| Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Knowles, Lees | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Charrington, Spencer | Lawrence, Sir E. Durning-(Corn | Stephens, Henry Charles |
| Chelsea, Viscount | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Lea, Sir Thos. (Londonderry) | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Strauss, Arthur |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Swans.) | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. | Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier |
| Colston, C. Edward H. Athole | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Sutherland, Sir Thomas |
| Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) | Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Cooke, C. W. Radcliffe (Heref'd) | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (L'pool) | Tomlinson, Wm. E. Murray |
| Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W. | Lorne, Marquess of | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge | Lowe, Francis William | Usborne, Thomas |
| Curzon, Viscount | Lowles, John | Valentia, Viscount |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Macartney, W. G. Ellison | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard |
| Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) | Macdona, John Cumming | |
| Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | MacIver, David (Liverpool) | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Maclure, Sir John William | Warde, Lt.-Col. C. E. (Kent) |
| Donkin, Richard Sim | M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Williams, Joseph Powell-(Birm |
| Doughty, George | M'Ewan, William | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N. |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Malcolm, Ian | Wilson-Todd, W. H. (Yorks.) |
| Doxford, William Theodore | Manners, Lord Edward W. J. | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath |
| Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Maple, Sir John Blundell | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Wylie, Alexander |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward | Milward, Colonel Victor | Wyndham, George |
| Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) | Monk, Charles James | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Finch, George H. | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Wyvil, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Finlay, Sir R. Bannatyne | Moore, William (Antrim, N.) | Young, Commander (Berks, E. |
| Firbank, Joseph Thomas | More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire) | |
| Fisher, William Hayes | Morrell, George Herbert | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Fison, Frederick William | Morton, Arthur H. A. (Deptford | |
| FitzWygram, General Sir F. | Murray, Rt. Hn Abraham (Bute | |
during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900, for certain Miscellaneous Expenses."
The Committee divided:—Ayes, 180; Noes, 60. (Division List, No. 356.)
NOES.
| ||
| Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N.E.) | Holland, Wm. H. (York, W. R.) | Oldroyd, Mark |
| Asher, Alexander | Horniman, Frederick John | Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham) |
| Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Jameson, Major J. Eustace | Pearson, Sir Weetman D. |
| Billson, Alfred | Joicey, Sir James | Pirie, Duncan V. |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) | Provand, Andrew, Dryburgh |
| Burns, John | Kearley, Hudson E. | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Caldwell, James | Kilbride, Denis | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Cameron, Sir Charles (Glasgow | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumberland) | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs) |
| Channing, Francis Allston | Lewis, John Herbert | Robson, William Snowdon |
| Crilly, Daniel | Lloyd-George, David | Runciman, Walter |
| Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) | Macaleese, Daniel | Souttar, Robinson |
| Dalziel, James Henry | MacDonnell, Dr. M. A (Q'n'sC.) | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | M'Dermott, Patrick | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Donelan, Captain A. | M'Leod, John | Ure, Alexander |
| Fenwick, Charles | Maden, John Henry | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| Gourley, Sir Edw. Temperley | Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | Morgan, W. Pritchard (Merthyr | Williams, John Carvell (Notts |
| Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale- | Morton, Edw. J. C. (Devonport) | Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Huddrsf'd |
| Hazell, Walter | Moss, Samuel | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Captain Norton and Mr. Steadman. |
| Healy, Timothy M.(N. Lonth) | Moulton, John Fletcher | |
| Hedderwick, Thos. Charles H. | O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. | |
54. £20,000, for the Congested Districts Board, Scotland.
55. £14,251, for repayments to the Civil Contingencies Fund.
56. £60,000, for the Paris Exhibition, 1900.
'Army Estimates, 1899–1900
57. £305,800, for Medical Establishment, Pay, etc.
58. £571,000, for Militia Pay, Bounty, etc.
59. £75,000, for Yeomanry Cavalry, Pay and Allowance.
60. £624,200, for Volunteer Corps, Pay and Allowances.
AYES.
| ||
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Cayzer, Sir Charles William | Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Ed. |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East) | Field, Admiral (Eastbourne) |
| Arnold, Alfred | Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Finch, George H. |
| Asher, Alexander | Chaloner, Captain R. G. W. | Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Chamberlain, J. A. (Worc'r) | Firbank, Joseph Thomas |
| Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy | Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry | Fisher, William Hayes |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch r) | Charrington, Spencer | Fison, Frederick William |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. G. W. (Leeds | Chelsea, Viscount | FitzWygram, General Sir F. |
| Balfour, Rt Hn J. Bair (Clackm. | Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Flannery, Sir Fortescue |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Coghill, Douglas Harry | Flower, Ernest |
| Barnes, Frederic Gorrell | Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Foster, Harry S. (Suffolk) |
| Barton, Dunbar Plunket | Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Fry, Lewis |
| Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin | Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole | Galloway, William Johnson |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol | Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) | Gedge, Sydney |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Cooke, C. W. R (Hereford) | Gibbons, J. Lloyd |
| Bethell, Commander | Cornwallis, Fiennes Stanley W. | Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H. (C. of Lond.) |
| Bigwood, James | Cox, Irwin Edwd. Bainbridge | Giles, Charles Tyrrell |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Curzon, Viscount | Goldsworthy, Major-General |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith | Dalkeith, Earl of | Gordon, Hon. John Edward |
| Bousfield, William Robert | Davies, Sir Horatio D. (Chath'm | Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir J. Eldon |
| Brassey, Albert | Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Goschen, Rt Hn G. J (St George's |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Goulding, Edward Alfred |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Donkin, Richard Sim | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Doughty, George | Greene, H. D. (Shrewsbury) |
| Butcher, John George | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A Akers- | Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) |
| Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin) | Doxford, William Theodore | Greville, Hon. Ronald |
| Carlile, William Walter | Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V. | Gull, Sir Cameron |
| Cavendish, V. C W (Derbyshire) | Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir Wm. Hart | Hanbury, Rt. Hon. R. Wm. |
61. £790,000, for Transports and Remounts.
62. £111,100, for Establishments for Military Education.
63. £60,200, for Miscellaneous Effective Services.
64. Motion made, and Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £248,300, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Charge for the Salaries and Miscellaneous Charges of the War Office, which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March,1900."
The Committee divided:—Ayes, 180; Noes, 57. (Division List, No. 357.)
| Hill, Rt. Hn. A. Staveley (Staffs. | Monk, Charles James | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Howard, Joseph | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Spencer, Ernest |
| Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil | Moore, William (Antrim, N.) | Stanley, Hon. A. (Ormskirk) |
| Jackson, Rt. Hon. Wm. Lawies | More, Robt. Jasper (Shropsh.) | Stanley, Edw. Jas. (Somerset) |
| Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick | Morrell, George Herbert | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Jenkins, Sir John Jones | Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford) | Stephens, Henry Charles |
| Johnston, William (Belfast) | Murray, Rt. Hon. A. G. (Bute) | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. |
| Keswick, William | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Kimber, Henry | Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) | Strauss, Arthur |
| Knowles, Lees | Newdigate, Francis Alexander | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Lawrence, Sir E.Durning-(Corn | Nicholson, William Graham | Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier |
| Lawson, John Grant (Yorks) | Nicol, Donald Ninian | Sutherland, Sir Thomas |
| Lea, Sir Thos. (Londonderry) | Northcote, Hon. Sir H. Stafford | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay | Tomlinson, Wm. E. Murray |
| Llewelyn, Sir Dillwyn-(Sw'ns'a | Parkes, Ebenezer | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. | Pierpoint, Robert | Usborne, Thomas |
| Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Pollock, Harry Frederick | Valentia, Viscount |
| Long, Col. C. W. (Evesham) | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. H. |
| Long, Rt. Hon. W. (Liverpool) | Purvis, Robert | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Lorne, Marquess of | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne | Warde, Lieut.-Col. C. E. (Kent) |
| Lowe, Francis William | Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W. | Williams, Joseph Powell-(Birm |
| Lowles, John | Ritchie. Rt. Hon Chas. Thomson | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh., N.) |
| Macartney, W. G. Ellison | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) | Wilson-Todd, W. H. (Yorks.) |
| Macdona, John Cumming | Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath) |
| MacIver, David (Liverpool) | Russell, T. W. (Tyrone) | Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart- |
| Maclure, Sir John William | Ryder, John Herbert Dudley | Wylie, Alexander |
| M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Savory, Sir Joseph | Wyndham, George |
| M'Ewan, William | Scoble, Sir Andrew Richard | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Malcolm, Ian | Seely, Charles Hilton | Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy |
| Manners. Lord Edward W. J. | Sharpe, William Edward T. | Young, Commander (Berks, E.) |
| Maple, Sir John Blundell | Sidebotham, J. W. (Cheshire) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Sidebottom, Wm. (Derbysh.) | |
| Milward, Colonel Victor | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
NOES.
| ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.) | Jameson, Major J. Eustace | Palmer, Sir Charles M. (Durham |
| Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) | Joicey, Sir James | Pearson, Sir Weetman D. |
| Billson, Alfred | Jones, William (Carnarvonsh. | Provand, Andrew Dryburgh |
| Burns, John | Kearley, Hudson E. | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Caldwell, James | Kilbride, Denis | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Cameron, Sir Charles (Glasgow) | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumb'land) | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) |
| Channing, Francis Allston | Lewis, John Herbert | Robson, William Snowdon |
| Crilly, Daniel | Lloyd-George, David | Runciman, Walter |
| Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.) | Macaleese, Daniel | Souttar, Robinson |
| Dalziel, James Henry | MacDonnell, Dr. M. A. (Q. C.) | Steadman, William Charles |
| Dilke, Lt. Hon. Sir Charles | M'Dermott, Patrick | Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath) |
| Donelan, Captain A. | M'Leod, John | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Fenwick, Charles | Maden, John Henry | Ure, Alexander |
| Gourley, Sir Edw. Temperley | Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | Morgan, W. P. (Merthyr) | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Hayne, Rt. Hon. C Seale- | Morton, Edw. J. C. (Devonport) | Williams, John Carvell (Notts) |
| Hazell, Walter | Moss, Samuel | Woodhouse, Sir J T (Huddersf'd |
| Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) | Moulton, John Fletcher | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Captain Norton and Mr. Pirie. |
| Holland, W. H. (York. W. R.) | O'Connor, Jas. (Wicklow, W.) | |
| Horniman, Frederick John | Oldroyd, Mark | |
65. £100, for Ordnance Factories.
Resolutions to be reported To-morrow.
Ways And Means
Considered in Committee.
(In the Committee.)
Resolvod—
"That, towards making good the Supply granted to Her Majesty for the service of the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900, the sum of £55,858,263 be granted out of the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom."—(Mr. Hanbury.)
Resolution to be reported to-morrow.
In pursuance of the Order of the House of the 17th day of July last, Mr. Speaker adjourned the House without Question put.
House adjourned accordingly at five minutes after One o'clock.