I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he will cause Returns to be published weekly showing the number and the rate of mortality of the white men, women, and children respectively, in each of the concentration camps in South Africa; and, so far as practicable, similar Returns for the native camps.

I will ask Lord Kitchener to give such information as he can. It will probably be more convenient to give the figures monthly.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he is yet in a position to state how many deaths of men, women, and children

I cannot give the figures separately for April, but I have already given the House the total deaths to the end of April. Those for May are as follows:—Orange River Colony, including Kimberley and Aliwal North, 20 men, 57 women, and 123 children, out of a total of over 25,000 souls. Cape Colony Camp at Port Elizabeth, nil, out of 386 souls. Natal, 3 men, 1 woman, 8 children, out of a total of over 2,500 souls. I have already given information as to the dietary, sanitary arrangements, and medical provision to the House, and all proper attention is being given to these matters.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether there is any intention to improve the dietary and medical arrangements?

; NO, Sir; the dietary as given up to now has been pronounced sufficient by those in authority in South Africa, including the medical authorities, and it is not proposed to increase it.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the desirability of a special diet for the very young children?

As far as possible a special diet is given to young children, but where great numbers are massed together it is not, and will not, always be possible to give fresh milk.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether any recent despatch has been received from Lord Kitchener estimating the number of Boers still in the field; if so, will he lay it upon the Table; if not, upon what data are they estimated by the Government to consist of 17,000 men.

The information is based on the Field Intelligence Reports, which are never published.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that officers and men invalided home by medical boards at Johannesburg and Pretoria have to pass additional boards at Bloemfontein and Cape Town; and if invalided home from the front in order to undergo operations in England are occasionally detained for weeks at Wynberg Hospital, near Cape Town; whether, in the interest of the patient and the taxpayers, orders could be given that all patients about to undergo operations in England should be sent home with as little delay as possible; and whether, in all cases, the number of medical boards before which invalided officers and men have to pass prior to being sent home can be reduced.

I am not aware that persons invalided home are examined by more than one board, except in cases where the patient on his way to the coast develops further illness, and has to undergo examination with a view to the extension of his sick-leave. The information at my disposal tends to show that patients are not detained unnecessarily at Wynberg. I will, however, draw the attention of the Commander-in-Chief in South Africa to the points raised by the question with a view to his taking such action as may be deemed necessary.

Did Lord Milner have to pass an examination by this board before he came home on leave?

Order, order!

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether any progress has been made with the revision of sentences pronounced by courts of inquiry in South Africa on soldiers charged with misconduct in the face of the enemy, and who are now undergoing their sentences in convict and other prisons in this country; whether a case has been brought under his notice in which the prisoner and members of his family fought bravely in Egypt as well as in South Africa; and whether he will see that no time is lost in deciding upon this and similar cases.

The Commander-in-Chief is carefully going through the sentences by courts-martial in South Africa. The case which the hon. Member brought to notice will be considered, but the facts are not entirely in accord with those which he forwarded to me.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State or India whether his attention has been called to the latest Report of the Army Medical Department, which stated of Ahmednagar that the general health was bad during the greater part of the year, that plague was epidemic from July to December, and enteric fever was most prevalent in May, June, and July; and, seeing that the principal medical adviser stated that the sanitary conditions were bad, the barrack accommodation and the conservancy establishment insufficient, and the water supply unsatisfactory, whether he will recommend the removal of the Boer prisoners to a more healthy locality.

I have already stated in the House that there is no intention of removing the Boer prisoners. The Report quoted by the hon. Member for East Clare mainly refers to the cantonment where British troops were located during the year 1899, which was exceptionally unhealthy owing to causes which have now ceased to exist; and the defects mentioned by the principal medical officer have been remedied. As I have said before, the station is considered to be one of the healthiest and most agreeable in India. The prisoners' camp was recently visited by the Governor of Bombay, who reported that the prisoners appeared "to be thoroughly contented and well cared for."

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether his attention has been called to the numerous complaints which have recently been made with reference to the non-delivery of letters to the troops in South Africa; and whether the difficulties of communication could be so far overcome as to ensure greater regularity in the postal service.

Has there not been an exceptional amount of postal matter to be dealt with?

The Postmaster General is aware that cases still arise in which letters addressed to the troops in South Africa do not reach the persons for whom they are meant; but the number of complaints of such cases is decreasing. The authorities in South Africa appear to appreciate fully the unsatisfactory conditions under which the postal service for the troops is carried on in a state of war, but they are understood to be making every possible effort to improve the conditions. In reply to the hon. Member for North Aberdeen, I may say that the amount of postal matter to be dealt with has been enormous.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War if he can explain why Reservists who returned to this country from South Africa last July are still kept at Aldershot, thus throwing on their employers the responsibility of continuing to support their wives and families in fulfilment of promises made when the Reserves were called out.

The men who are retained at Aldershot are those whose services cannot be spared. With the large number of young soldiers at home, it is absolutely necessary to keep a proportion of older men with the regiments and at the depots. The local military authorities have been given discretionary power to allow any men whose services can be dispensed with to return to their homes.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether, before the War Office Vote is put down to be taken in Committee of Supply, he will furnish a Return showing the number and estimated cost of the staff proposed as the establishment for the United Kingdom under the scheme of Army reform, as compared with the number and cost of that establishment on 31st March last, distinguishing the number and cost of the headquarter staff at the War Office from that of Army corps areas.

It is not proposed to make appointments to any of the Army corps before October 1st, and until all the arrangements are completed, in- cluding those for various measures of decentralisation which I intend to propose, I cannot give the Return desired.

May I ask whether, before the War Office Vote is taken, the House will be told to what extent the staff is to be increased, in view of the statement on the Estimates that the extent of the increase had not been settled.

It is not proposed to increase the strength of the staff of the War Office. As to the remainder, I may say that our labours are extremely heavy, and I may not be able to bring all these matters to a settlement before the War Office Vote.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether an automatic rifle has been issued for experimental purposes; if so, will he state the name of this rifle, and how many have been issued, and will he afford Members of Parliament an opportunity of inspecting the new arm.

The reply to the question is in the negative.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that an application on behalf of Catherine Guilfoile, a widow aged seventy years, came before the Mountmellick Board of Guardians at their meeting on the 1st instant, and that this woman has two sons who hitherto maintained her, and are at present in the service of the King, one in South Africa and the other in Dover; and, seeing that the application was supported by the chairman of the county council, who is also guardian of the division in which Catherine Guilfoile resides, and who recommended that she be granted 2s. 6d. per week, whether he can take any steps by which this woman may be prevented from becoming chargeable to local rates.

The Secretary of State for War has no power to compel the sons to give any portion of their pay to their mother. An application by the local authorities to the officers commanding the regiments concerned to take measures to induce the sons to contribute to their mother's support would doubtless receive attention.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he will state the numbers of enlistments in Ireland in the Regular Army and the Militia respectively during the first four months of each of the years 1896, 1897, and 1898.

The figures are as follows:—1896: Army, 1,037; Militia, 3,145. 1897: Army, 1,184; Militia, 3,228. 1898: Army, 1,276; Militia, 3,035.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that K company of the 3rd Volunteer Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers, which was formed at Dolgelly nearly a year ago, has not yet been supplied with arms; whether his attention has been called to the fact that this company, which is a cyclist one, took part in the recent Easter manoeuvres, and had to borrow rifles, bayonets, and slings from the Portmadoc company of the same battalion, and that some of the overcoats and leggings of this battalion bear the condemned for service mark, dating back as far as 1872; and can he state who is responisble for this state of affairs, and whether steps will be taken to supply the required equipment without delay.

I know nothing of the matter alluded to in the question. The question is entirely one for the general officer commanding the district, who is responsible that the unit is properly armed, clothed, and equipped. The overcoat and leggings are provided by the unit out of the capitation grant, and the War Office has nothing to do with the supply.

Is there no appeal to the War Office in matters of this kind?

Under the principle of decentralisation urged upon the Government it was felt that these questions should be left in the hands of the general officer commanding. His attention shall be called to this case.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether, in view of the fact that there is at the head of the Army Medical Department at the present time only an Acting Director General shortly about to retire from the service, he will say when a new Director General will be appointed.

No, Sir; I can make no statement on this subject. Various measures for the reorganisation of the Medical Department are in progress.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether his attention has been called to the remarks of the Lord Chief Justice in the case of Wrench v. Lang worthy Bros. and Co., and if he proposes to take any steps in the matter.

My attention has been called to this case, and I am considering it.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the advisability of laying on the Table a full report of the evidence and of the Lord Chief Justice's remarks?

I do not see any reason for that. The case was very fully reported.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether he is yet in a position to state the composition of the force of fifty men which, with the captain and two lieutenants, were absent on duty on shore from H.M.S. "Sybille," and the composition of the complement remaining on board when that ship was wrecked; and, if so, can he state the figures for each branch afloat and ashore belonging to the ship when the occurrence took place.

The composition of the force on shore was as follows:—Captain, 2 lieutenants, 33 petty officers and men of executive and navigating branch, 5 engineer branch, 2 miscellaneous ratings, 1 sergeant and 10 men of the Royal Marines, total 54. The complement remaining on board was composed of 13 remaining officers of the ship, 85 executive and navigating branch, 87 engineer branch, 13 artificers, 16 miscellaneous ratings, 15 Royal Marines, 18 Kroomen, total 247.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether he is aware that a few months ago a Roman Catholic seaman who was serving aboard the "Diadem," then stationed at Castletown Berehaven, fell from aloft at 4 p.m., and expired at 6.30 p.m. on the same day, from injuries sustained by the fall, and whether he can explain why, although the "Diadem" was within five minutes row of the house of the Roman Catholic chaplain, he was not sent for to administer the sacraments to the dying man.

A priest was not sent for in this case because it was not anticipated that the accident to the seaman in question would terminate fatally. The medical officer of the ship was of opinion that he would recover. In the ordinary course the man would have been sent into Queenstown Hospital on the following day, and the collapse of the patient was sudden and unforeseen. I may add that the case has already received full and careful consideration by the Admiralty, and that commanding officers are instructed, in all cases where it is possible, to make every effort to secure the services of a priest or minister of the denomination of an injured man whenever a case of danger to life arises. It is to be regretted that in this instance no such ministrations were provided, but it is quite clear that the absence of a priest was not due to either neglect or indifference on the part of the officers of the ship.

Will the hon. Gentleman allow me to inform him that the evidence given at the inquest concerning this man—

Order, order!

Then, is the hon. Gentleman aware that the naval officer stated at the inquest that—

Order, order!

remained standing and tried to complete the question.

If the hon. Member persists in disregarding the authority of the Chair, I shall have to take the step of naming him to the House.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether he is aware that the present contractor to the Channel Squadron at Castletown Berehaven supplies foreign beef, whether the terms of his contract require that the beef should be freshly killed, and, if so, will the Admiralty enforce the terms of the contract, and compel the contractor to supply Irish beef.

The contract for the supply of meat at Berehaven provides that the meat shall be good, fat, well-fed, freshly-killed ox or maiden heifer beef; that it shall be approved by the commanding officer of the vessel, supplied as in all respects fit for His Majesty's service, and that no refrigerated or frozen beef is to be supplied. There is no reason to believe that the conditions of the contract have been departed from. The officers commanding the ships are informed of the conditions, and no complaint has been received from any of them to the effect that the meat is not of good quality, or that the conditions have not been complied with. It is not proposed to vary the terms of the contract.

Are navy contractors in Ireland permitted to supply foreign beef?

Order, order! That does not arise out of the question on the Paper.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether the Board of Admiralty have come to any decision as to the need for the Naval manoeuvres on the west coast of Ireland, and for other purposes, of a signal station on the north island of Arran at the entrance to Galway Bay.

The question of the establishment of a signal-station on the island of Arran is at present under the consideration of the Admiralty, but no decision has yet been arrived at.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether he can say in what manner the chain of a boat of H.M.S. "Repulse," the breaking of an officially-stamped link of which resulted in the death of a seaman in Lough Swilly on 13th May, was tested at Chatham, and what steps have been taken to give effect to the recommendation of the coroner's jury that better supervision should be exercised at Chatham in issuing fittings.

I will ask the hon. Member to postpone this question, as I have not yet been able to obtain all the required information.

On behalf of the hon. Member for the Camborne Division of Cornwall, I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India if it is intended to confer on the Bishop of Calcutta the style and precedence of Archbishop; and, if so, can this step be taken without the sanction of this House being obtained by legislation or otherwise, and will the change be carried out without adding to the expenditure of the Indian Empire.

I cannot make any statement at present on the subject to which the hon. Member's question refers. As I said a few days ago, in reply to the hon. Member for Shrewsbury,^* there are many important considerations involved in this proposal; but I believe I may state at once that, if the change of title were made, no extra charge would thereby be thrown upon the revenues of India.

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether any agreement has yet been arrived at by the Allied Powers as to the amount of the indemnity which China is to be compelled to pay and as to the machinery by which the payment of the instalments of indemnity is to be secured.

In a Note addressed by the representatives of the Powers at Peking to the Chinese Plenipotentiaries, the total indemnity payable by China has been fixed at 450 million taels, but the other matters referred to in the question are still under discussion.

Was the Note signed by the representatives of all the Powers?

Yes, I think so.

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will cause to be procured from His Majesty's representatives abroad figures snowing the annual cost of the diplomatic services and the consular services respectively of the United States, Germany, and France.

The following are the total figures taken in the

^* See page 271.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether His Majesty's Government propose to lay upon the Table of the House, as the First Report of the Gibraltar Committee, the unanimous replies on 30th March of all its members to the six questions constituting the reference to it; or do they propose to lay, as that Report, the personal letter addressed privately and confidentially by Admiral Rawson on that date to the First Lord of the Admiralty, which letter described itself as an Interim Report; whether His Majesty's Government propose to lay upon the Table both documents, and, if they present only Admiral Rawson's Report, do they propose to lay the whole or only portions thereof.

In answer to my hon. friend I have to say that I know of no personal letter addressed by Admiral Rawson to the First Lord of the Admiralty. We propose to lay on the Table of the House both Reports, with their enclosures, except only those portions which, on public grounds, ought, in our opinion, to be treated as confidential. The enclosure in the first Report contains the answers, not to the six questions to which my hon. friend refers, but to five out of the six questions which were asked. One of the questions to which my hon. friend refers was not answered.

Is my right hon. friend aware that Admiral Rawson himself described this as a personal letter, and that, on that ground, no copy was given to the other members of the Committee?

No, Sir. My hon. friend's memory strangely misleads him, for, in the very first paragraph of the document to which he refers, Admiral Rawson says he has the honour to present this "Interim Report." And he not only signs it himself, but all the other members of the Committee including my hon. friend, signed it with this subscription:—"We agree to the foregoing Report, (Signed) Thomas Gibson Bowles," and the other members of the Committee.

I beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer whether his attention has been drawn to the Report for the year 1900 on the Trade and Commerce of Italy, which states that owing to the increasing expense of British coal, of which four and a half million tons were imported in 1900, it has been proposed to utilise the waterfalls and electricity for generating power in order to substitute electricity for steam for traffic and industrial purposes, thereby reducing the imports of British coal; and whether, under these circumstances, the Government will reconsider their decision to impose a duty on coal exported from the United Kingdom, thereby increasing the cost of British coal in Italy.

I have not seen the Report; but, assuming the statement in the question to be accurate, I see no reason for reconsidering the imposition of a coal duty. I am told that large contracts have been made for supplying coal to Italy since the imposition of the duty, the purchaser paying the duty.

I beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer where coals are exported, in pursuance of contracts made before 19th April, 1901, to persons resident in a foreign country, from whom the export duty cannot be recovered, will the Treasury be entitled, under Clause 3 (2) of the Finance Bill, to remit the duty; and, if so, will the production of the contracts and proof of shipment of the coal in pursuance thereof be deemed sufficient evidence upon which the Treasury may exercise their power of remission.

I think my hon. friend is asking me a general question with reference to some particular case. I can only say that remission would depend not merely on production of the contracts and proof of shipment under them, but also on their nature and character.

I beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he has addressed a communication to the various coal trade associations asking those bodies if they are prepared to support a request for a complete investigation into the whole subject of the country's coal resources, the probable term for which the coalfields are likely to last for home consumers, the possibility of adopting a more economical method of working, the competitive power of our coal with the coal of other countries, and the probable effect of the new export duty; and, if so, whether such an inquiry will be by a Royal Commission, a Select Committee of the House, or a Departmental Committee; whether, in view of the time that must elapse before the result of such an extended inquiry can be made public, he will provide that an Interim Report shall be issued as to the effect of the new coal duty before it will be necessary to formulate the Budget proposals of the next financial year; and if, having regard to the nature of the inquiry and the current estimate of the value of the Report of the Coal Commission of 1866 as to the probable duration of the supplies of cheap coal, he will see that the commercial element is adequately represented upon the Commission or Committee.

The Parliamentary Committee of the Mining Association of Great Britain asked me whether I could advise an inquiry into the advisability of the coal export duty, its incidence, and its probable effects on the coal trade; and explained that they did not suggest the withdrawal of the duty, but desired an inquiry before it was imposed for another year. I pointed out to them that such an inquiry would be, in my opinion, too limited to lead to any satisfactory conclusion, and asked whether they would support suggestions which had already been made for a much more extended investigation, including the first four points specified in the question. I have not yet received a reply, and therefore have not brought the subject before my colleagues. I can, therefore, only say, in reply to the other questions of the hon. Member, that at present I do not see how an Interim Report could be of value unless it was based on a consideration of the whole subject.

I beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer whether there is any rule as to the quality and age of spirits that may be used to fortify wine in bond, and whether foreign spirit may be used for the purpose.

There is no rule as to the age or quality of the spirit used for the purpose of fortifying wine in bond. The spirit used for the purpose may be (a) British plain spirits, (b) foreign spirits unsweetened, (c) spirits of wine.

May German spirit be used then?

Any unsweetened foreign spirit.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether it is the custom for the police or other Government officials to ask the names or examine the luggage of passengers arriving at Southampton or Liverpool

The baggage of all passengers arriving from foreign ports at Liverpool, Southampton, or any other port in the United Kingdom is by law liable to examination by the officers of customs. The police have nothing to do with the matter, and I am informed that it is not the practice of the customs officers at the ports named to ask the names of passengers on arrival. Information is obtained from lists supplied by the shipping companies.

Will the Chief Secretary see that the same course is adopted at Queenstown and other Irish piers?

I replied to a question on this subject the other day, and I have nothing to add to my answer.†

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he can state when he intends to bring in the Bill dealing with youthful offenders.

To-day; at the commencement of public business.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will consider the advisability of connecting the police stations throughout the metropolis with the telephone system, seeing that this has been carried out with satisfactory results in the City of London as well as other towns throughout the United Kingdom.

This question has been considered already, and it appeared that the existing efficient system of telegraphic communication between all the police stations, which is entirely under police control, meets all police requirements.

I beg to ask the President of the Board of

† See page 66.

I fear I can only repeat what I have already stated in reply to the hon. Member's previous questions. So far as reasonable uniformity can be obtained by Board of Trade regulation, I shall endeavour to secure it, and it is of course open to harbour authorities, by means of local Acts, to endeavour to obtain powers to levy dues based on the gross instead of on the net tonnage of vessels.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether a decision has now been arrived at in regard to the question of increasing the salaries of sheriffs in Scotland; and, if not, can he state when a decision is likely to be announced.

The decision has been deferred pending the receipt of information for which the Secretary for Scotland has asked from certain of the sheriffs. I am in hopes that a decision will shortly be arrived at.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether he can state what are the various fees for medical inspection which have to be paid by successful candidates at Civil Service examinations; and whether he can arrange that in future such inspections shall be gratuitous as in the case of recruits for His Majesty's forces.

The fees vary from half a guinea to a guinea. They do not do more than meet the payments to the medical men by whom the examinations are made. It is not proposed to make any change

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether, seeing that the vessels of the Elder and Dempster Company (Beaver Line), of Liverpool, carry His Majesty's and the Canadian mails, he can state what steps, if any, he has taken to see that the Pair Wages Resolution of the House of Commons of 1891 will be carried out so far as the firemen employed on the Beaver Line of Royal Mail steamers from Liverpool are concerned; and having regard to the fact that the current rate of wages on steamships sailing out of Liverpool which carry the mails to the United States of America is £5 per month for firemen can he state what is the present rate of wages which is paid to firemen employed on board the vessels of the Beaver The employed in carrying the mails.

The mails for Canada are conveyed under contract with the Canadian Post Office, not with the Postmaster General; and the present contractors are not Messrs. Elder, Dempster and Company, but Messrs. Allan. The Postmaster General has no knowledge of the present rate of wages paid to firemen of the Beaver line.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether he can state by whom clerks to the Surveyors of Taxes are appointed who pays these clerks their salaries, and out of what source or fund; whether a surveyor is changed from one survey to another, are the clerks in the office changed also, and can a surveyor of taxes dismiss a clerk in his office without the sanction of the Board of Inland Revenue; and will he explain why the clerks in the offices of Surveyors of Taxes are held to be merely clerks of the surveyors, and to have no connection or claim to be recognised as members of the staff of the department or in its employment.

(1) Clerks to Surveyors of Taxes are appointed by the surveyors, and (2) are paid by the surveyors out of an allowance provided for that purpose in the Inland Revenue Vote. (3) The clerks are not changed from one survey to another without the surveyor. (4) A surveyor may dismiss a clerk without the Board's sanction; but he must inform the board that he has done so. The clerks are held to be merely clerks of the surveyors, because that is in fact their position. They are not appointed by the Board of Inland Revenue, they do not hold Civil Service certificates, and they are not part of the permanent staff of the Department.

I beg to ask the Vice-President of the Committee of Council on Education, in view of the proposal contained in Section 6, Sub-section (2), of the recently introduced Education Bill as applicable to the county schools in Wales, and, seeing that most of the schools receive annual grants under the various schemes, whether he will introduce a clause exempting Wales from the provisions mentioned.

The Government will consider the suggestion of the hon. Member before the Education Bill leaves the House of Commons.

I beg to ask the Vice-President of the Committee of Council on Education if he has received a resolution passed at a public meeting at Llanelly, suggesting that the Government should pass a short Bill enabling school boards to carry on the work they are doing at present till a comprehensive measure can be passed, entrusting all work connected with public education (elementary, secondary, and technical) to an authority solely elected for this purpose; and whether he can fall in with their desire.

Yes; I have received the resolution. There is no intention of introducing such a Bill at present.

I beg to ask the Vice-President of the Committee of Council on Education whether, in view of the proposal in the Education Bill to repeal the whole of the Technical Instruction Acts of 1889 and 1891, he will insert a special clause to keep alive certain Technical, Instruction Committees in Wales, and whether the penny rate which it is proposed to empower urban district councils to levy (Section C, Sub-section (1) will be in addition to the twopenny rate contemplated under Section 3.

No such clause is proposed by the Government, but they will consider any which the hon. Member may suggest. The answer to the second paragraph is in the affirmative.

I beg to ask the Vice-President of the Committee of Council on Education whether he is aware that the Walsall School Board has within the past three months exempted over one hundred children from school attendance, some of whom failed to pass the fourth standard at the recent examination; will he state whether the Board are empowered to make such exemption, and does the Education Department propose to take any steps to prevent members of this school board from breaking its own bye-laws.

The answer to the first paragraph is in the negative. Under the Walsall bye-laws children are entitled to partial exemption after twelve, either on passing Standard IV. or on making three hundred attendances annually for five years.

I beg to ask the Vice-President of the Committee of Council on Education whether his attention has been called to a letter and pamphlet circulated by the Leeds School Board in which it is stated that about 13,000 students in Leeds (the number enrolled last session) will be deprived of the further opportunity of self-improvement or training for com- mercial and industrial pursuits, the work shown in the accompanying prospectus of last year's classes will be at a standstill, this result being attributed to the judgment in Rex v. Cockerton and the absence of official guidance or instruction from the Board of Education; and whether he will give an assurance that the provision in the Education Bill dealing with this subject will be proceeded with.

The difficulty in which the Leeds School Board find themselves is caused by their having established schools which they have no legal power to maintain. No official guidance or instruction could enable them to use the school fund for purposes not sanctioned by the Elementary Education Acts. Under the existing law, the local authority, under the Technical Instruction Acts, can use the funds provided by those Acts for the maintenance of such schools, and further facilities are provided in the Bill now before Parliament. There is nothing to prevent the Leeds School Board from now arranging with the local authority for the continuance of such schools, either under the existing law or in anticipation of legislation on the subject.

I beg to ask the President of the Local Government Board if it is the intention of the Board to enforce surcharges upon members of school boards leviable under what is known as the Cockerton Judgment.

If any member of any school board feels himself aggrieved by any surcharge by the auditor he has a right of appeal to the Local Government Board, and I shall be prepared to consider on any such appeals reasons for which a remission may be made.

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether his attention has been called to a proposal of the Grimsby Town Council to ask the Government to transfer to Grimsby the collection of fishery specimens which the late Mr. Frank Buckland left to the nation; and will he say if this collection is still at South Kensington, and when and where it will be open to inspection by the public.

Perhaps I may be allowed to answer this question. The Board of Education have never heard of the Grimsby proposal; the fish are at the Victoria and Albert Museum at South Kensington, and can be seen there at all times when the museum is open.

I beg to ask Mr. Attorney General whether he can state the number of days on which the House of Lords and the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council respectively sat for the discharge of judicial business in each of the years 1899 and 1900.

The House of Lords sat for judicial business in 1899 on seventy-one days, and in 1900 on eighty-six days. The Judicial Committee of the Privy Council sat for judicial business in 1899 on ninety days, and in 1900 on seventy-four days.

I beg to ask the Lord Advocate, as representing the Secretary for Scotland, if he will state the number of medical officers of health appointed in Scotland to districts other than burghs since the 1st January, 1898, and will he say how many of these medical officers hold a public health diploma.

Five medical officers of health holding a public health diploma have been appointed in Scotland to districts other than burghs since the 1st January, 1898. In addition seventeen appointments have been made by district local authorities, but as the medical men did not possess the statutory qualifications, the appointments were not in terms of the Public Health Acts and were not recognised by the Local Government Board.

I beg to ask the Lord Advocate, as representing the Secretary for Scotland, seeing that up to the 9th May last the Congested Districts Board had purchased land in Sutherlandshire and also in Inverness-shire for the settlement of the people, will he explain why the Board have not acquired land in Ross and Cromarty, especially in view of the congestion in some parts of the county, notably in Island of Lewis, and of the repeated applications for land which have been made both by the people and the representative bodies acting on their behalf.

The Board have not been able to acquire any land in the counties of Ross and Cromarty which is suitable for the formation of crofters' holdings. Acting on the suggestion of the Board, the proprietor of Lewis offered the Board to feu a field of seven acres near Stornoway, on which it was proposed to create holdings for fishermen, giving them about a quarter of an acre each for a garden. The Board offered to pay for the cost of enclosures, roads, drains, etc., and to give advances to enable the cottars to erect dwellings. The field was most suitable for the purpose, and the Board was led to believe that there was a large demand for fishermen's holdings of this sort, but when applications were invited only one was received.

was understood to ask if £5 per acre was not being charged for land which was absolutely useless to the people.

I am not aware of it.

Well, it is a fact.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that the import duty on mackerel into Russia is higher than that on herrings, and whether efforts have been made to get this inequality reduced with a view to opening a new market for the Irish mackerel fishing industry; whether the Congested Districts Board has endeavoured to open fresh markets in Asia Minor for smoked and salted fish, and will he state what efforts are now being made by the Department or by the Congested Districts Board to open fresh markets for the Irish mackerel fishing industry, the success of which is of such importance to the western and south-western districts of Ireland.

The reply to both queries in the first paragraph is in the affirmative. The Congested Districts Board will inquire into the possibility of opening fresh markets in Asia Minor. The Board endeavoured last year to open a market in Irish inland towns, but without success. The Department of Agriculture is making inquiries with the object of developing the foreign markets for picked mackerel. Owing to the large and steady supply of fresh fish, there does not appear to be any prospect of developing a trade in home markets.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland if he can state the number of police stationed in county Mayo in each year from 1895 to 1900, inclusive; how many extra police have been employed during that period, and at what cost, and how many extra police are employed in county Mayo at present.

486, 500, 473, 470, 468, and 487, respectively. An extra force of fifty men was employed in the county from March, 1898, to May, 1900, at a cost to the rates of £3,739 10s. 4d. There have been no extra police in the county since May, 1900.

What has become of the extra police who were employed there?

They are in Belfast.

I will put the question down for to-morrow.

They have gone back to their duties elsewhere.

Does it not follow, then, that some place is over-policed?

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he can state what steps the Local Government Board are taking to promote amalgamation of unions, and to remove any legal difficulties that may stand in the way; what action has been taken on the Local Government Board's Sanitary Order of the 4th of May, 1900, with respect to the appointment of a responsible sanitary officer in each group of unions, and will he say whether parties holding offices in county infirmaries are eligible as deriving their salaries from the poor rate for the office of poor law guardian.

The general question of the amalgamation of unions is engaging the attention of the Local Government Board; investigations in the matter are now in progress. The provision in the Order of May, 1900, with respect to the appointment of a medical superintendent officer of health has not been acted upon in any case. The opportunity to act upon it will only arise as vacancies occur in the office of consulting officer. I am unable to reply to the second paragraph; the point is one for determination in a court of law.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland if he can state the number of families that have been evicted in Ireland between the years 1886 and 1900 inclusive, also the number of persons in each family.

The total number of families evicted in the period of fifteen years mentioned was 20,352. There are no records of the number of persons included in the evicted families. The number of families remaining out of their holdings is not, of course, correctly represented by these statistics, since a very large proportion of them have been restored to their farms.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that magistrates holding His Majesty's commission of the peace for the county of Sligo, especially those appointed between the years 1892 and 1896, are prohibited by a rule of the Lord Chancellor from adjudicating outside certain prescribed districts; and whether, in view of the fact that quite recently two paid resident magistrates appeared at the ordinary petty sessions court at Tubbercurry, in that county, when the principal business was the hearing of trivial charges preferred against two respectable persons, he will abolish that rule, or else modify it, so that the area of adjudication for county magistrates be extended.

The practice is that magistrates, when about to be appointed, should state what petty sessions courts they purpose to attend. It was adopted long before the year 1892, and has been found to be necessary, in order to make proper provision for the manning of the petty sessions bench and the due administration of justice. The practice has no application to resident magistrates. It is not proposed to modify it.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that in a case of being disorderly in the street brought against a man named M'Grogan, in the Lisburn town court on Thursday last, Sergeant Fullerton, who prosecuted, swore that a man named Trew had used strong language against Roman Catholics in the Market Square on the previous Saturday night when preaching, which incited M'Grogan to disorder, and which he considered provocative; is he aware that the chairman of the court, Dr. McKenzie, said that Trew should be summoned, condemned his language as hurtful to Roman Catholic feeling, and discharged M'Grogan; and can he say if Trew is the same person who is alleged to have incited to the riots in Belfast on the 9th instant and subsequent dates; if so, has the suggestion of the Lisburn magistrates, that Trew should be summoned, been acted on, or is it the intention of the Crown to prosecute him for his language in Lisburn?

Trew is the person charged with inciting to riot in Belfast; for this a prosecution has already been directed against him, in which it is possible that this speech, made in Lisburn, may be given in evidence. I must, therefore, decline to enter more fully into the matter, as it is involved in a pending prosecution.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland if he can state by what authority and under whose direction Constable Hallisey acted in tearing down a poster convening a meeting of the United Irish League at Shanballymore on Sunday last, the 16th instant; and, seeing that the poster did not contain anything of an illegal or intimidatory nature, will the police be instructed to abstain in future from interference with meetings of the United Irish League at Shanballymore.

The hon. Member has not been correctly informed. The placard referred to was not torn down by the police. No instructions of the nature mentioned in the second paragraph are necessary.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland if his attention has been drawn to the new rule of the Intermediate Education Board for Ireland whereby the custom of awarding prizes and exhibitions in the preparatory grade is to be discontinued after the present year, and having regard to the effect that this change will have on poor pupils since rewards are reserved for students of fifteen years of age, and with the view of preventing the loss of benefits of secondary education to the children of those in humble circumstances, whether he will ask the Commissioners to reconsider their decision in this matter.

In discontinuing the custom of giving prizes and exhibitions directly to the students in the preparatory grade, the Board of Intermediate Education was strongly influenced by the weight of evidence given before the recent Commission on Intermediate Education as to the danger of educational over-pressure at an early age. The Board, however, have taken power in Rule No. 42 of the new rules to assign to managers of schools a sum of money, not exceeding £1 for each student who shall have passed in the preparatory grade, as a prize fund to the school, to be applied according to a scheme to be approved by the Board.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he can state in what manner the lodgments are made by the collectors of poor rate in Cork County, and whether the sums collected by them are lodged to the credit of the county council at the close of the half-year or as they are received from the ratepayers, and, if the latter course is adopted, can he say by what method the interest which accrues on these lodgments is allocated amongst the different unions, and how many collectors have lodged their collections in banks different from the accredited treasurers of the county council, and whether this proceeding is sanctioned by the Local Government Board.

The secretary to the county council states that the collectors are required to lodge their collections to the credit of the council fortnightly, or oftener when the sums collected amount to £100. The county at large is credited with the interest on the lodgments, and it would not be practicable to allocate the interest to particular districts. The collectors of one union, instead of lodging the moneys to the credit of the council, lodged them to their own credit with a branch treasurer. This irregularity was corrected by the county council, who did not, however, bring it under the notice of the Local Government Board.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether his attention has been drawn to recent prosecutions in England indicating that foreign products, such as bacon, butter, and eggs, are sold as Irish products; whether the Department of Agriculture in Ireland has made any representations to the English Board of Agriculture as to the necessity for a more energetic and stringent enforcement of the law in this matter; and whether, if this cannot be otherwise secured, the Department of Agriculture in Ireland has power to devote a portion of its income to the payment of special inspectors for the detection of such frauds in the chief centres of population in England and Scotland; if so, whether it will consider the advisability of doing so.

The answer to the first paragraph is in the affirmative. The Department has been in correspondence with the English Board of Agriculture in regard to butter frauds. The Irish Department has recently increased its staff of transit inspectors, who are required to protect the interests of Irish produce both in transit and on sale, in Great Britain as well as in Ireland.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that the electoral divisions of Dromane, Inniscaltra North, and Mount Shannon, in the Scariff rural district, have been called upon to pay taxes in connection with the working of the West and South Clare Railways, although the divisions named are comprised in the South Galway Parliamentary Division, and therefore not included in the list of guaranteeing baronies; and, seeing that the Local Government Board informed the Clare County Council on 27th April last that the said divisions could not be legally taxed in connection with the working of these railways, and that they have already paid a portion of the baronial taxes, whether he will cause directions to be issued to the proper authority, informing them that, in striking the next rate for these particular divisions, a remission should be made, amounting to the sum already illegally levied from them.

The facts are as stated in the question. The Board informed the Council that, in its opinion, the electoral divisions referred to are not legally liable for any portion of the guarantees in respect of the South Clare or West Clare Railway. The Board will suggest to the Council the desirability of remitting the rate already assessed upon these divisions.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether his attention has been called to a resolution of the Bawnboy Rural District Council asking the Local Government Board to have several electoral districts in the Bawnboy rural district scheduled under the Congested Districts Act, and what steps, if any, have been taken to comply with the resolution.

Legislation would be necessary to enlarge the area of districts at present scheduled as congested.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether Mr. Lane, the temporary Fishery Commissioner recently appointed in Ireland, was required to pass any examination to test his fitness for the office; and, if not, will he be required to pass an examination before he is permanently appointed; and whether he can say what qualifications or practical experience in fishing industry this gentleman has had, or in what industrial pursuit he has been engaged during his life.

To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he will state now long it is intended to continue Mr. Lane in the position of temporary inspector of fisheries in Ireland; and, seeing that, in addition to his qualifications on account of having assisted Mr. Green in a survey of the deep sea fisheries, the development of the Irish fisheries requires the care and attention of inspectors possessing expert knowledge, whether he will take steps to secure that a gentleman of practical experience and proper training shall be elected to fill the vacancy caused by the retirement of Mr. Cecil Roche.

I will at the same time reply to the question of the hon. Member for Mid Cork. Examinations are not held for the post of Fishery Inspector. Mr. Lane was not, therefore, examined. The question of making a permanent appointment has not arisen. I have already stated that Mr. Lane has special knowledge of deep sea and inland fisheries. He was not appointed as an expert in fisheries, but mainly because of his business training and experience, and with a view to assist the Department in the development of the fisheries on their commercial and industrial side. The fisheries branch of the Department is already sufficiently strong in expert officers.

The right hon. Gentleman has not said in what industrial pursuit this gentleman has been engaged during his life.

I believe he has been in business as a brewer.

Is it intended that he shall pass any test examination before he is permanently appointed?

Order, order! That has nothing to do with the question.

With all respect, Sir, it is part of the question on the Paper.

The question of a permanent appointment does not arise. I decline to commit the Government to make the appointment permanent.

Is it not a fact that civil service clerks have to pass an examination before appointment?

Order, order! The hon. Member is now arguing the question.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he has received letters from Mr. Charles Phibbs, of the County Sligo, stating that, as a consequence of taking a grazing farm from Lord Harlech, he was at once deserted by all his farm hands; that, with one exception, they refused the offer of higher wages, saying that if they remained they might be murdered; that the local blacksmith refused to do any work for him; that the only man remaining in his employment has been threatened; and that a draper in Bally-mote has given his assistants instructions not to supply his family with any goods; whether he is aware that since these letters were written Mr. Phibbs has been boycotted; and whether under these circumstances the Government will take steps to protect Mr. Phibbs.

Yes, Sir; the letters referred to have been received by me, but I had full cognisance of the facts apart from communications. Mr. Phibbs will be provided with ample protection.

Has not Mr. Phibbs been denounced by what is known as the Irish National League; and, if so, is he to be compelled in the future to live under the rule of that body, or will Government protect him?

Was not Mr. Phibbs ostracised by his own party some years ago?

Is it not the fact that almost every con- cession wrung from Irish landlords of late years has—

Order, order!

May I ask—

Order, order! If any further questions are to be asked notice must be given in the ordinary way.

But—

Order, order!

It is only very short, Sir.

The hon. Member must accept my decision, whether he thinks it right or wrong.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether the county and district councils may forthwith formulate schemes for the employment of direct labour, in anticipation of the Provisional Order which will come into operation in 1st April, 1902; and, if so, whether he will direct the Local Government Board to so advise the several councils.

The Provisional Order cannot be acted upon till it is confirmed by Parliament. The Board will circulate the Order as soon as it becomes law, and will advise the councils as to the preliminary steps which may be taken for the purpose of putting the Order in force on the appointed day.

Cannot the councils take the preliminary steps before the 1st April?

They must wait until Parliament has confirmed the Provisional Order, which I hope will be not many days hence.

Will the Right hon. Gentleman direct or request the Local Government Board for Ireland, when the Provisional Order is confirmed, to intimate to the County and District Councils that they may proceed to formulate schemes for the employment of direct labour.

As soon as the Order is confirmed the Local Government Board will take action on it.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland if he will grant a Return for the years 1890 to 1900 inclusive of prosecutions undertaken in Ireland of infringement of the fishery laws by masters of beam or otter trawl vessels round the coast of Ireland.

Yes, Sir; the Return will be granted.

I beg to ask Mr. Attorney General for Ireland if the sheriff of a county is bound to attend at quarter sessions in Ireland for the purpose of presenting white gloves to the presiding judge when absolute crimelessness prevails in a district; and, if so, what is the explanation of the absence of the sheriff of Kerry from the quarter sessions at present being held at Killarney, and the last quarter sessions held three months ago, at both of which there was no criminal business to be disposed of.

The sheriff is not under any obligation such as is suggested. The explanation of his absence on the occasions referred to is stated in the question, namely, that there were not any prisoners or traverses for trial.

I beg to ask Mr. Attorney General for Ireland whether he will state why the receiver on the Fitzgerald estate, in the county Westmeath, has been ordered to sue for the hanging gale, and whether he has sanctioned this proceeding.

This estate is under the jurisdiction of the Land Court. No proceedings have been taken by th receiver, and will not be taken unless by the direction of the land judge. The executive Government has no control in the matter.

I beg to ask Mr. Attorney General for Ireland whether he can state how much of the £5,760 16s. 5d. levied as fines and costs in the Dublin police courts in the year 1899 was distributed amongst local bodies, and if he can name the local bodies to whom the money was paid.

The allocation of the sums paid to local bodies out of the amount mentioned in the question was as follows:—To the Dublin Corporation, £479 17s. 3d.; to the Pembroke Urban District Council, £30 19s. 2d.; to the Rathmines Urban District Council, £10 3s. 5d.; and to the Drumcondra Urban District Council, £4 2s. 0d.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether he can see his way to have the present arrangements altered so that in future the accounts of the Irish public departments may be audited permanently in Dublin.

In the case of certain accounts where access is required to books and documents which cannot conveniently be transmitted to the Audit Office a local test is already made. So far as is known, no inconvenience arises from the transmission of accounts from Ireland and their audit in London. If the examination of the Irish accounts were conducted locally by officers under the direction of the Comptroller and Auditor General, great practical inconvenience would result from the necessity of referring questions to London before bringing them to the notice of the Dublin accounting officers, while the opportunity at present available to the Comptroller and Auditor General of personal conference with his officers would be wanting.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as repre- senting the Postmaster General, whether he is aware that, although established sorting and telegraph clerks are entitled to free medical attendance, the sorting and telegraph clerks at Clones do not enjoy this privilege; and whether, seeing that a number of post offices in England which do not possess a more numerous: postal staff, have a post office doctor, the same right may be extended to the officials in Clones.

Free medical attendance is supplied only at offices at which the Department has appointed a medical officer, and Clones is not one of those offices. The question of appointing a medical officer at Clones is now under consideration.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that about two years ago the Irish Lights Commission agreed to remodel the Maiden Lights by erecting a new and improved light on the rock adjacent to the course of the mail steamers, which are now larger and faster; also to place a large buoy at Hunter's Rock and Highlandman's Rock, and to put a fog signal on the main land; and, seeing that many accidents have occurred, and that the Larne and Belfast Harbour Commissioners made repeated applications to have these improvements carried out, whether he will take measures to have them completed before the coming winter.

The Trinity House on the 15th instant notified to the Board of Trade their approval of a proposal by the Commissioners of Irish Lights to improve the light at the East Maidens, and the scheme is now being considered by the Board of Trade. But the cost of the work is not included in the Estimates for the current year. I am informed that a buoy will be placed at Highland Rock in a few weeks time, while the description of buoy to be placed at Hunter's Rock is under consideration. The Lighthouse authorities are of opinion that it would not be desirable to put a fog-signal near the Maidens, and the nautical adviser to the Board of Trade concurs in this view.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether he is yet in a position to state the terms of reference to the Royal Commission on University Education in Ireland, and the names of the gentlemen who are to serve on the same.

Within the last hour or two I have been placed in a position to answer my hon. friend's question, and I am very sorry, for reasons which will suggest themselves to all interested in this matter, that I have not been able at an earlier date to give any information to the House on this subject. The reference to the Commission is in the following terms—

"To inquire into the present condition of the higher general and technical education available in Ireland outside Trinity College, Dublin, and to report as to what reforms, if any, are desirable in order to render that education adequate to the needs of the Irish people."

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury if he has received a unanimous resolution passed at the annual meeting of the delegates of the Hearts of Oak Benefit Society, recommending that the State should provide a scheme of old age pensions, commencing at the age of sixty-five, of not less than 5s. per week, to persons who have been members of a thrift society for at least twenty years; and whether he can fall in with their desire.

I have received the document to which the hon. Gentleman refers. He can hardly expect me to make any announcement on the subject of old age pensions at the present moment.

Does the right hon. Gentleman wish me to convey that answer to a quarter of a million electors?

I have conveyed it by giving the answer myself.

I have to ask leave to introduce a Bill to amend the law relating to youthful offenders and for other purposes connected therewith. The object of the Bill is, as far as possible, to protect young people from being contaminated by the influences of prisons and workhouses. The House will remember that a similar Bill came down from the House of Lords last session, but, while the provisions of the Bill as a whole were generally acceptable, there was one provision, that relating to the whipping of young prisoners, which met with a considerable amount of opposition, and the Bill in consequence did not proceed any further. I do not desire that the other extremely useful provisions of a measure of that kind should be shipwrecked upon that rock again, and therefore I have from the present Bill omitted that clause, but retain in the Bill all those provisions which would have a very considerable indirect influence in preventing young persons going to prison. I need not detain the House at any length by describing the provisions of the present Bill. There is a provision that children and young persons who are on remand, or waiting trial, instead of being sent to prison or to the workhouse, should be committed to the charge of some reliable person, who will be responsible for the production of the individual whenever necessary. The children will be committed to houses set apart for that purpose, and I believe that already in various parts of the Metropolis houses are available for carrying out this provision. According to last year's Bill, if a parent or guardian had conduced to the child's offence by neglect he was made liable to a fine of £5. In the present Bill the parent or guardian is made individually responsible for the whole of the fine and costs which may be inflicted on the child if he is shown to have contributed to the offence by neglect. We also amend the machinery for the recovery of parental contributions towards the maintenance of a child or young person who has been sent to a reformatory or industrial school. At present the law is found in practice to be very inefficient, and it is very hard in a great number of cases to recover these contributions completely or even at all. The indirect effect of this and the former provision will be to induce parents and guardians to make every effort to prevent children from coming within the meshes of the law. There is another provision in the Bill which has been asked for many times by the representatives of Ireland. It deals with the unsatisfactory state of the law in Ireland with regard to the committal of young persons to reformatories. The law is not clear, but it seems to have been held that young persons in Ireland cannot be committed to reformatories unless they have previously been sent to prison. By altering this the Bill will assimilate the law in Ireland be the law in England in this respect. I hope and believe that these provisions will receive the general assent of the House, and that with the assistance of the House we shall be enabled to pass the Bill into law in the present session.

This is a subject in which I have always taken a great deal of interest, and I would ask the right hon. Gentleman whether this Bill will deal with the most serious part of the matter. In the case of a trifling offence, where a small fine of 1s. or 2s. 6d. is imposed, costs of £1, and sometimes of £2 or £3, follow upon the certificate of the magistrate, and only too frequently the parent, who is ready to pay the fine, may be utterly unable to pay the costs. I hope the right hon. Gentleman in his Bill will deal with that. The costs cannot be imposed under Lord Cross's Act unless there is a certificate given by the magistrate, but my observation leads me to believe that, unfortunately, the certificate is given almost as a matter of course. Bill to amend the Law relating to Youthful Offenders, and for other purposes connected therewith, ordered to be brought in by Mr. Secretary Ritchie, Mr. Solicitor General, and Mr. Jesse Collings.

moved an Amendment having for its object the exclusion of "His Majesty's colonies and possessions" from the proposed tax. He said the proposal he would make later on, if the Committee accepted this Amendment, to give the colonies preferential terms by admitting their imports of sugar at a reduction of 33½ per cent., might be approached from two points of view. In the first place it might be looked upon from the point of view of giving help to the colonial sugar industry. Practically he suggested that colonial sugar should pay 2d. where foreign sugar paid 3d. The market for colonial sugar in this country, under the operation of European bounties, had gradually fallen away almost to nothing. By the adoption of his proposal the market for colonial sugar would gradually revive, and cane sugar would take the place of foreign beet sugar in this country, a result which he was sure the House, without distinction of party, would welcome. Our West Indian colonies, which had been reduced from prosperity almost to the verge of bankruptcy, would become once more self-supporting and prosperous parts of the Empire. Time and again the condition of the West Indies had been brought before the House. It was an old and a very sad story. In answer to a question put to him on 29th April last the Colonial Secretary stated that, including the sum in this year's Estimates, the financial assistance which had been given to the West Indies amounted to about £320,000 in five years in carrying out recommendations. That was in addition to £82,000 given in relief of distress caused by the hurricane in 1898. He certainly thought the West Indies should receive from this country better consideration in view of the fact that in the course of the next few years the American market would show the outlook to be even more dreary than it was at present. He could not help thinking that if by some means of adjustment of our fiscal relations we could do something to avoid on one hand the continual giving of doles to the West Indies and at the same time assist them to revive what was their natural and profitable industry, the growth of sugar, we should be devoting ourselves to a cause at once practical, profitable, and patriotic. The loss of revenue from the proposal which he made would not amount to more than £60,000 if the imports were on the scale of last year, and the ultimate increase in importation would be gradual. One objection that was raised by the Chancellor of the Exchequer was the danger of fraudulent imports of foreign sugar being brought into this country as colonial. There was no commodity whose origin was more easy to trace than sugar. Did the Chancellor of the Exchequer seriously maintain that Germany could send huge quantities of sugar to Queensland or Jamaica and then be able to re-ship it as colonial sugar? Could that be done without the colonies knowing all about it? Would the colonies connive at it, or would it even pay Germany to do so? Was it seriously contended that sugar importers would arrange to forge bills of lading so that a cargo coming from France would appear in the ship's papers as hailing from Barbados? He submitted that such a contention could not seriously be entertained. There was a third objection which could be raised, and that was that the granting of this preference to colonial sugar would be an infringement of free trade. But was it not the acme of Cobdenite pedantry to object to freer trade in sugar between the colonies and the mother country? His Amendment did not propose to put an import duty on sugar, it only provided that certain import duties should be lower in the case of sugar coming from British colonies than on that coming from foreign countries. British disciples of free trade had objected to countervailing duties against bounty-fed sugar because they would not have any import duty imposed on commodities; but when there was an import duty, surely they ought not to object to any reduction of it. There was a question connected with this matter of sugar which it was almost impossible to avoid touching upon, he meant the question of bounties. He did not want to enter at length upon that question that day, partly because he quite understood it was a matter of the utmost difficulty and delicacy, as any one would realise who had read the French papers of the previous day; and partly because anything that might be said in the House of Commons might hamper the course of His Majesty's Government during the next few months—a course which he hoped they would enter upon with a strong desire and an earnest sympathy to do all that they possibly could for colonial sugar production. He would only say on this matter that he really did not see why they should not have preferential duties and the abolition of the bounties as well. The colonies needed badly all the help they could get, while he believed the bounty-giving States, particularly Germany, the most powerful of all, were heartily sick of the increasing drain on their treasuries involved in the bounty policy, and he fancied they were willing enough to withdraw the bounties whenever they could. The right hon. Gentleman the Member for Montrose, in a speech of power, eloquence, and ability which everyone of them admired, spoke about some inevitable consequences of the increasing expenditure of the country and amongst them the right hon. Gentleman said that it would be inevitable for the Chancellor of the Exchequer to widen his net. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had widened his net in the present case, and had re-introduced the tax upon sugar. The one great object that he had in moving his Amendment was to urge the Chancellor of the Exchequer to seriously consider whether in the imposition of fresh customs duties, he would look at the advisability of minimising the operation of these duties on goods which came to us from His Majesty's colonies and possessions. The case of Canada had been mentioned by his hon. friend the Member for Sheffield. Canada had carried out a proposal which had extorted enthusiasm from us all; but, after all, he did not suppose we really built up an empire entirely by enthuthusiasm. He did not imagine that we consolidated our position merely by expressions of goodwill. Something more solid and practical than that was required; and he submitted to the Chancellor of the Exchequer that, in view not only of what Canada had done, but of what Australia was capable of doing, that he should make a serious attempt to consider the question of an inter-Empire preferential tariff. The question as regarded sugar was of the first importance in this matter, because Queensland and the other Australian colonies were exceedingly anxious to develop an English market, and such a proposal as he had made would be a great encouragement to them. If our colonies, as exemplified in the case of Canada, and as illustrated by the hesitating and waiting attitude of Australia, were prepared to meet us, ought we not to be prepared to meet them? He did not ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer to plunge into the fiscal war—he should be sorry indeed to urge him on that course—but, as the Chancellor of the Exchequer had to spread his net further and further in search of additional revenue, he should see whether it would not be advisable to give preferential terms to our colonies. This was a question which would grow more and more acute in this country. He knew that a deep interest was taken in this question by the working classes of the West Riding of Yorkshire, and he was convinced that they felt, when the colonies were coming to us in a spirit of such loyal co-operation in our military difficulties in South Africa, and also in a spirit of willing and loyal co-operation in Imperial affairs generally, and for commercial federation, that the time was ripe for the Chancellor of the Exchequer to respond to their proposal in a sympathetic spirit, and to encourage the gradual formation of inter-Empire trade, which, he believed, would be the surest basis for the future consolidation of the Empire.

My hon. friend who has brought this very important subject before the attention of the Committee commenced his remarks with an observation with which all of us will sympathise. He regretted the present position of our West Indian colonies, and recommended his Amendment to the Committee mainly on the ground that its adoption would afford substantial relief and a prospect of improvement to those colonies which, in his judgment, nothing else would afford. I hope that my hon. friend will not for a moment suppose that I fail to sympathise with such a desire. I think that I have given practical proof of that desire in the large grants, amounting to £320,000, for the purposes of relief which have been presented to Parliament during the last five years for the benefit of the West Indian colonies. My hon. friend proposes that this sugar duty, imposed solely with the object of raising revenue which is sorely needed, and which will be paid by the consumer here and not by the producer, should be levied in such a way as to extract one-third less from sugar coming from the colonies than from sugar coming from foreign countries. There I must join issue with my hon. friend. I cannot believe it would benefit this country or benefit the West Indies to adopt that policy. It is the policy of forty years ago, and it was abandoned after long trial as benefiting neither this country nor our colonial possessions. Let me address myself to the arguments which my hon. friend adduces. In the first place, he said this would deprive the Exchequer of very little revenue, and that is quite true so far as the present is concerned; but, in passing, I ask my hon. friend to consider what the effect of adopting his proposal would be. It would not only deprive the Exchequer of a third of the revenue on sugar coming from British possessions; it would also impose that third upon the consumers of sugar in this country, for it is obviously clear that consumers here would pay just as much for colonial sugar paying two-thirds duty as for foreign sugar paying the full duty. Therefore, while depriving the Exchequer of a certain amount of duty it would also take that amount out of the pocket of the home consumer for the benefit of the colonial producer. That is my hon. friend's object. But he would not have proposed this Amendment if he desired that the finantial effect should continue to be a small one. His desire is to encourage the production of sugar in our colonies, and to replace foreign sugar in this country by sugar produced in our colonial possessions. Therefore, he would be glad to see the day when a third of the whole revenue from sugar would be lost to the Exchequer to pass into the pockets of colonial producers. But I do not believe that anything of the kind would happen, and I will tell my hon. friend why. He ridicules the idea of any possible fraud in connection with these preferential duties. He asked how was it possible that sugar could be sent from Germany or France to Jamaica in order to be re-exported to this country as colonial sugar. I agree with him. Sugar is too bulky and freight too dear for that operation. But Cuba is almost within sight of Jamaica, other West India Islands belonging to foreign countries are very near our own possessions, and French Guiana and Dutch Guiana are very near British Guiana. If we establish this preferential duty, in view of what I have said, we should have to safeguard that system by certificates of origin, and other precautions against fraud, which were absolutely intolerable when they existed in past years, and which would be infinitely worse for the commerce of our colonies than the duty of which my hon. friend complains. Certainly I am not disposed to embark on such a policy as that, with the idea that it would benefit our colonies, because I believe it would be injurious to our colonial trade. My hon. friend in one part of his speech showed the true meaning of his proposal. It is not merely a proposal to aid the West Indies. My hon. friend admitted it to be the commencement of a new fiscal policy for this country. If we adopt it with regard to sugar we should have to follow it out with regard to tea, with regard to spirits, and with regard to every other colonial product to be found on the tariff.

said he only suggested the Amendment to apply to newly imposed duties.