said he had intended to propose the introduction of a new clause into this Bill, but he had ascertained that an agreement had been come to between those on whose behalf he was speaking and the Corporation of Belfast as to the regulations under which the Ulster Hall would, in future, be available for the citizens of Belfast. All they desired was that there should be a clear understanding, and, so far as he was concerned, he was perfectly content that it should be an honourable understanding, that the hall which the Corporation of Belfast had acquired should not be used merely by one section of the citizens, but that all sections, of whatever politics or religious creed, should be on equal terms. He asked for such an assurance from the hon. Member in charge of the Bill.

said that when the Bill was under discussion, on the Motion for Second Beading, every speaker on his side of the House declared that there was no intention whatever on the part of the Corporation of the City of Belfast to make any difference, on either political or religious grounds, between applicants for the use of the hall. If the hon. Member for East Mayo desired a more definite assurance, on his part he would be very glad to give it, and he could give it on the authority of the Town Clerk of Belfast, who had authorised him to say that the Corporation had acquired Ulster Hall for the benefit of the citizens of Belfast, wholly irrespective of religious or political views. He could assure the hon. Member that that undertaking would be given the fullest possible effect to. Of course, rules would have to be drawn up, regulating the letting of the hall. He hoped that that would satisfy the hon. Gentleman.

I am perfectly satisfied.

reported from the Committee on Group No. 6 of Railway Bills, That Mr. Osmond Williams (Merioneth), one of the Members of the said Committee, was not present during the sitting of the Committee this day.

reported from the Committee on Group H of Private Bills, That, for the convenience of parties, the Committee had adjourned till Monday next, at Twelve of the clock.

reported from the Committee on Group J of Private Bills, That the parties promoting the North Metropolitan Electric Power Supply Bill had stated that the evidence of W. Adams, of No. 15, Vincent Road. Noel Park, Wood Green, Estate Agent, and C. Crowe, of No. 471, Seven Sisters Road, Tottenham, builder, was essential to their case; and it having been proved that their attendance could not be procured without the intervention of the House, he had been instructed to move that the said W. Adams and C. Crowe do attend he said Committee on Tuesday next, at half-past Eleven of the clock. Ordered, That W. Adams and C. Crowe do attend the Committee on Group J of Private Bills on Tuesday next, at half-past Eleven of the clock.

reported from the Committee on Group No. 3 of Railway Bills, That, there being no business ready for their consideration, the Committee had adjourned till Monday next, at half past One of the clock.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether he can give any information as to the prospects of peace in South Africa.

There is no information in the possession of the Government which I can give to the House.

I wish to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will state the total cost of the war in South Africa from the time of the Boer ultimatum to 31st March of the present year, distinguishing between the amount paid out of general taxation and the amount raised by way of loan and added to the National Debt.

The hon. Member will find the information in the Return entitled "Wars in South Africa and China" (House of Commons Paper 155), just issued.

May I be allowed to explain that this Question had been on the Notice Paper some days before the Return referred to by the Chancellor of the Exchequer was issued?

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War if he is aware that a number of Cornish and other miners who left this country in January and February last, under War Office permits, to take up their old employment in mines at Johannesburg, are detained at Cape Town, and cannot proceed further in consequence of the refusal of the Permit Office at Cape Town to grant proper facilities of travel: and if he will telegraph instructions that all miners who can furnish satisfactory evidence of engagement at mines which are now working shall be immediately allowed to proceed to their destination.

I am informed by Lord Milner that special arrangements have been made to meet the mining industry, whereby, when authority is given to drop a number of stamps, permits for men to do the work entailed are granted, irrespective of the ordinary allowance of permits. No miners, therefore, who really have employment to come to are delayed at the coast, as the mining companies requisition for any men they require, and permits are authorised at once. Miners referred to as being detained at Cape Town probably fall under one of two categories. Either they were not employed immediately before the war by mines now working, or they have been promised employment on mines which have not yet started crushing.

Is it a fact that priority is always given to men who were engaged as miners before the war broke out?

Yes, I believe that is so.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that many of the men formerly employed in the Johannesburg mines are kept back because their places have been filled by Kaffirs?

No, that is not true.

Well, I know it.

Order, order! It is a most irrelevant Question.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he will state what course is being taken by His Majesty's Government with regard to claims for alleged war losses in the Colony of the Cape of Good Hope where such claims have been allowed by the Compensation Courts, and what was the composition of those courts; whether a difference has been made between claims in the Bechuanaland Protectorate, which have been met up to the extent of 75 per cent. of the allowed claim by His Majesty's Government, and claims in Cape Colony, where 50 per cent. has been paid by the Colonial Government, while the Prime Minister of Cape Colony has declared that he cannot go beyond 50 per cent. without a guarantee of repayment by His Majesty's Government; and, seeing that the Cape Government has set aside £250,000 towards meeting the claims, whether the whole of that money has been repaid to the Government of the Colony by the Imperial Government or is to be repaid in the future.

His Majesty's Government have undertaken that claims for losses caused by the enemy or by His Majesty's troops which are allowed by the Compensation Commissions in the Cape Colony and which were sustained by persons not concerned in the rebellion, will, like similar claims in the Bechuanaland Protectorate and Natal, be met by the Transvaal and the Orange River Colony. Two compensation Commissions were appointed in the Cape Colony in July, 1900, each consisting of a magistrate, a leading farmer, and an officer selected for his knowledge of similar work. In the Bechuanaland Protectorate 75 per cent. of the allowed claim is advanced from Protectorate funds in accordance with the course adopted by Natal. In the Cape Colony 50 per cent. is advanced from Cape funds, in accordance with the provisions of the Cape Act No. 6 of 1900. These advances have not been repaid, but they, together with the balance of the allowed claims, will be provided out of the first loan raised on behalf of the new Colonies.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether arrangements can be made to enable men who have served throughout the war, and whose regiments or batteries are under orders to proceed direct from South Africa to India at the conclusion of the war or earlier, to visit this country on furlough prior to their proceeding to India.

This plan has been already given careful consideration. It has, however, been found impossible to make the necessary arrangements without unduly retaining in India the equivalent number of men.

May I ask the noble Lord if he can give this matter further consideration? It is very important.

Yes, Sir, it is important; and the Secretary of State has looked into it very carefully. He is unable to grant the request.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he will explain why the Cornish Volunteer service company who served in the South African war, and returned home twelve months ago, have not yet received their clasps for the South African war medal, while other Volunteer service companies, returning at the same time, have received these clasps some months ago.

It is necessary to check the Volunteer rolls with the rolls of the line battalion to which they were attached, to prevent mistakes; and it has not yet been found possible to check the roll of the line battalion concerned. The rolls are being checked with all possible despatch, but the work, as the hon. Member will understand, is laborious, and requires considerable care.

Can the noble Lord say when the checking will be completed?

No, Sir.

Six months, or a year or two hence?

I think the hon. Member will find, on inquiry, that extraordinary expedition has been shown in this matter of getting out the medals for the Volunteer companies.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he can now announce to what extent the attendance of Volunteer regiments or battalions will be required from Scotland for the Coronation; what regiments or battalions will be required; and whether whole regiments or portions of regiments only

It is proposed to ask Volunteer units to furnish detachments of two officers, two sergeants, one bugler, drummer, trumpeter or piper, and twenty rank and file, i.e., twenty-five of all ranks.

Will that include all regiments?

Yes.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War if he will consider the advisability of enabling R.A.M.C. officers who have been retired, but are now doing duty in one of the retired appointments, to reckon for pension ten years of such service as an equivalent of five years of full pay service.

I do not think the Government would be justified in undertaking the increase in expenditure suggested by the hon. Member. The officers to whom the hon. Member refers are regarded as being sufficiently paid for the services they perform.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he will state what open spaces are available within an easy march for the field training of London Volunteer Corps; whether his official information shows that the places thus available are sufficient in size and number; and whether the War Office intends to take any steps to secure the use of further open spaces for this purpose.

The War Office is thoroughly alive to the desirability of providing means for proper field training, but the cost of securing open spaces in the immediate vicinity of the metropolis would be prohibitive. It is held that the main field training of Volunteers must be carried out in camp.

Is it quite impossible for the Secreary of State to reconsider the decision as to the use of Richmond Park by the Volunteers?

I do not think it is the decision of the Secretary of State that would have to be reconsidered.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War, in view of the fact that a Bill has recently been introduced into the House of Commons for the purpose of confirming a Provisional Order for the compulsory purchase of ground adjacent to the shore at Prestwick and Newton-on-Ayr, under The Military Lands Act, 1892, is he aware that the Kingcase Rifle Range, which it is sought to perpetuate by means of this purchase, has been declared by the Supreme Court to be a nuisance and danger to the public; and, seeing that the owners and ratepayers of Prestwick and neighbourhood have presented a petition pointing out that the range interferes with the development and prosperity of the place, will he consider the expediency of having it abandoned in favour of the range now in use at Irvine, which offers facilities for Volunteers, and is accessible from Prestwick both by omnibus and by trains at reduced rates for Volunteers.

The hon. Member is evidently unaware that this Bill has been introduced for the express purpose of removing any possible danger. As the Bill will shortly be considered in Committee, I cannot discuss its terms in a reply to a Question, nor am I prepared to surrender any rights the Volunteers may have in this range.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War, with regard to the 6,000 tons of shot and shell stored in Woolwich, at present offered for sale by the War Office, can he say whether this material or any portion of it is of German manufacture.

No German-made ammunition is on sale.

I beg to ask the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether he is aware that, owing to the fact that it takes about three minutes for the men working in the Royal Army Clothing Department to enter and leave the Department, thereby causing an actual loss of about six minutes to the men at dinner time, the authorities have recently been obliged to open a second gate on the south side; and whether he will consider the advisability of opening the north gate instead of a second gate on the south side in the interest of the men living in the direction of the north gate entrance.

The north gate is reserved for the female workers. The present arrangement is undoubtedly the best, and I have no intention of interfering with it.

I beg to ask the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether his attention has been drawn to the inadequate accommodation for the women piece workers engaged in pressing ill the Royal Army Clothing Department; and whether, seeing that the accommodation is now practically the same for some 1,500 hands as sufficed prior to the present war for about 900, and that consequently delay and disturbance arise, he will take steps to improve the accommodation; and, whether he will consider the advisability of arranging for the weekly payment of the allowance made to this class of workers when shut out through infectious disease, instead of payment in bulk upon return to work, so as to prevent hardship arising from such method of payment.

The number of persons employed on pressing irons before the war was 1,348 and not 900. A new pressing house for twelve additional irons is ready and will shortly be available for use. Persons shut out on account of infectious disease can receive their pay weekly by any authorised intermediary.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War if it is his intention to lay upon the Table of the House the Report of the Departmental Committee on Military Education; and, if so, can he say when this will be done.

At the same time I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he will state when he intends to lay upon the Table the Report of the Military Education Committee.

The Report and evidence will shortly be ready for issue. I cannot give an exact date.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he will state the number of soldiers sentenced to penal servitude in South Africa for military offences now serving sentences in convict prisons in the United Kingdom, the number of sentences remitted, and the number now incarcerated; whether he will take steps to make other provision than in convict prisons for the detention of soldiers guilty of military offences; and whether he will adopt measures to ensure that soldiers now in convict prisons may not suffer on discharge therefrom the stigma attaching to the worst of criminals.

The number of soldiers in convict prisons for sentences in South Africa is forty-seven. The rest of the information required by the first part of the Question would appear on careful investigation to entail so much clerical labour that I fear I cannot consent to grant it. The suggestion in the second paragraph would require legislation to carry it out. As regards the last paragraph, the distinction between military offences and those against the civil law is well known, and so far as the authorities are concerned, they will do what they can in the direction suggested. I may add that my right hon. friend was entirely in sympathy with the view of the hon. Member who asks the Question.

I beg to ask the Patronage Secretary to the Treasury if he will set down his Motion for a Select Committee on Steamship Subsidies for such a time as will enable it to be adequately discussed by the House; and if, in view of the public interest aroused in the proposed combination of British and Foreign Transatlantic steamship companies, he will extend the reference to the Committee so as to include an Inquiry into the effect which will be produced by such combination on British trade, and at the same time strengthen the personnel of the Committee; and if he will accept the Amendment on the Paper standing in the name of the Member for Merthyr.

was understood to reply that it was very important the Committee should be appointed, but he could not give the pledge asked by the hon. Member.

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether the Admiralty, before adopting in 1887 the policy of subsidising the best merchant steamers for war purposes, consulted the Board of Trade as to the probable economic efforts of depriving the British carrying trade in war of the vessels best suited to secure immunity from capture of passengers and merchandise; and, if so, whether there is any objection to the correspondence being laid before Parliament.

Correspondence took place between the Admiralty and the Treasury in 1887 and is published in a Parliamentary Paper (C. 5006, 1887). The probable economic effect in war time of the employment of subsidised steamers does not appear to have been discussed in the correspondence, nor, as far as I am aware, were the Board of Trade consulted.

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade, will he state what steps, if any, are taken by the Board of Trade to ensure the carrying out of the provisions of Section 25 of the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894, which requires that, when a registered ship or a share therein is transferred, the transferee shall not be entitled to be registered as owner thereof until a declaration has been made that no unqualified person or body of persons is entitled as owner to any legal or beneficial interest in the ship or any share therein; and, in cases where the Board has grounds for believing that such a declaration is false, are any, and, if so, what, steps taken by the Board to remove the ship or ships from the British Register.

The steps taken in the case of a transfer of a ship or share therein are substantially the same as those laid down in the case of first registry. If there is any suspicion that any declaration made is false, careful inquiry is made and neither registry or transfer is allowed unless the registrar is satisfied of the bonâ fides of the transaction. If a British ship ceases to be owned by persons qualified by law to own a British ship she is at once removed from the British Register, and if British national character is improperly assumed the ship is subject to forfeiture.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether, pending the Report of the Select Committee on Steamship Subsidies, and the Report of the Departmental Committee recently appointed by the Admiralty, the Government will take such measures as will prevent British steamships, suitable as cruisers or transports, being transferred to another flag when such a transfer would destroy their utility for the British Government at the outbreak of war with another Power; and, whether, if the law as it at present stands does not enable them to do this, the Government will at once bring in a Bill giving them the necessary powers.

I have to say that my hon. friend's suggestion amounts to this—that we shall prevent a British subject from selling his property to a foreigner when that property is in the form of steamships. This question to which the hon. Member refers is no doubt, a serious matter, but so startling a change in our practice could not be attempted without the gravest consideration.

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade, does the Board of Trade take any steps to ascertain whether the declaration required by Section 9 (v) of the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894, to be made by any person claiming to be registered as the owner of a British ship, that no unqualified person or body of persons is entitled as owner to any legal or beneficial interest in the ship, or any share therein, is in fact a true declaration; and, in case it comes to the knowledge of the Board of Trade that such a declaration has been made contrary to the true facts of the ease, what steps, if any, is it practice of the Board of Trade to take; and, will he further state what steps, if any, have actually been taken by the Board of Trade in eases of this kind.

Yes, Sir, great care is taken by the Board of Trade to secure the declaration to which the hon. Member refers is a true declaration. The declaration is usually made before the registrars of Shipping who are specially instructed to point out to declarants the consequences of a false declaration, and, if the registrar has reason to doubt the truth of the facts declared, he refers the matter to the Board of Customs who consult their legal advisers as to proceeding for the recovery of the heavy penalty prescribed by the Act.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give me an answer to the last paragraph of my Question?

was understood to reply that it was not the duty of the Board of Trade to institute prosecutions.

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that a considerable number of steamships of large aggregate tonnage, engaged as well in the Atlantic trade as in the trade to Australia and New Zealand, and which are registered as British ships, are nevertheless owned entirely or mainly by citizens of the United States; and, if so, whether, having regard to Section 1 of the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894, which restricts ownership of British ships to naturalborn or naturalised British subjects, denizens, or bodies corporate established under and subject to the laws of some part of His Majesty's dominions, and having their principal place of business in those dominions, he can explain why the ships in question have been allowed to retain their British register.

The answer to this Question is in the negative. No doubt a considerable number—in some cases a preponderating number—of the shareholders in some companies qualified under Section 1 of the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894, to own British ships are citizens of the United States or of other foreign countries. There is nothing in the existing law to prevent that, so long as the body corporate owning the ship is established under, and subject to the laws of some part of the King's dominions, and has its principal place of business in those dominions.

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether His Majesty's Government have now any information showing the nature of the transaction whereby a considerable number of British steamships, or shares of companies registered as owners of those ships, have passed into the possession, or under the control, of citizens of the United States; can he state the total number and total gross tonnage of the steamships affected by this transaction, and especially its effect upon the British register of those ships; and, will he further state whether any Papers relating to the subject will be laid before the House, and whether His Majesty's Government are taking, or propose to take, any steps, and, if so, what steps, with regard to this matter.

Yes, Sir, the Government is aware of the nature of the transaction to which my hon. friends refers. The information was given us confidentially, and I am not at liberty to make any public statement at the present moment with respect to the precise terms of the agreement or the number and tonnage of the vessels affected, but I may say that no change in the nationality of the ships is necessarily involved. Great care will be taken to prevent any infraction of the law. We have no Papers upon the subject which we can lay upon the Table, and I am not in a position to make any statement as to steps which may be taken by the Government other than those of which the House has already been informed in connection with the question of merchant cruisers.

I bog to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether the White Star Company were required by their agreement with the Admiralty to give proper notice of their agreement with the American combination to transfer to that combination the control or a share in the control over or interest in ships subsidised by the Treasury under the agreement of 1887; will he state what is the effect of the agreement of this Company with the American combination on the rights reserved by the Admiralty to buy or hire these ships; and whether the obligation of the White Star Company to have half their crews of the Royal Naval Reserve will still hold good.

As I have already stated, several legal points of some difficulty are involved in this matter, and I should prefer not to express an opinion upon them. I have at present no reason to vary the statement which I made in reply to the hon. Member's supplementary Question on Friday last to the effect that hitherto the White Star Company do not appear to have violated the terms of their agreement with the Admiralty. The reply to the last paragraph is in the affirmative.

Does not the statement of the owners of the White Star Line, as disclosed to-day, show that there is a material alteration in the position with regard to the ships over which his Majesty's Government have the power of pre-emption?

The Question of legal effect is one which I cannot answer.

Are the Admiralty in doubt as their legal rights in this matter?

The Admiralty knows very well what are its rights after the agreement has been broken. The question of whether the agreement has, in fact, been broken, is one of these matters for legal interpretation, upon which, as I state just now, I am not prepared to express an opinion.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India if he has yet received any detailed information showing the success or otherwise of the agricultural banks started in the united provinces as the result of Mr. Dupernex's experiments in the Allahabad District; and if he can lay any Papers upon the Table of the House.

It is too early to expect any evidence as to the success or failure of the argricultural banks to which the hon. Member refers. They are as yet in the experimental stage. I will lay on the Table the Report of the Committee appointed by the Government of India to consider the subject of agricultural banks for India, if the hon. Member will move for it.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether he will state when he will be in a position to publish the objections of the Government of India on the extra cost of £786,000 a year on the revenues of India by this year's Army scheme, and the decision that has been arrived at concerning them.

My correspondence with the Secretary of State for War on this subject is not concluded, and I am unable to state when I shall be in a position to publish the objections of the Government of India. I may add that we have agreed to pay the extra 2d. a day, but have urged objections against the incidence of cost of the extra 6d. a day, which will not be payable before April, 1904.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether an order for 5,000 galvanised buckets for the use of the British Army in India has recently been placed with an American firm; and, if so, why articles manufactured abroad were in this instance preferred to those made in England.

No order for buckets has been placed by the India Office with any American firm.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India if he will state why the Government of India Treasury at Darjeeling is indicated as a deficit treasury; and why it refuses to change Government of India notes, issued at Calcutta, except to travellers who are able to satisfy the Department that they are travelling round the world.

It has been the custom in India to designate as a "deficit" treasury those treasuries in which the ordinary cash receipts are less than the expenditure. At such treasuries currency notes cannot be cashed unless the officer is satisfied that it can be done without expense or inconvenience; but facilities are, if possible, given to travellers.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether he is aware that there are no automatic brakes on the mail trains running between Ahmedabad and Jeypore; and will he state whether, in the interests of the travelling public, steps will be taken to require the railway company to provide all passenger carriages with automatic brakes.

I will inquire into the matter.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether he is aware that, although the carriages of the passenger trains running between Agra and Gwalior are fitted with automatic brakes, some only are connected; and, in view of the danger arising from these conditions, will he cause some inquiry to be made with a view to greater care being exercised in making up the trains running between the places mentioned.

I will inquire, into the matter.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether he can give any statistics in regard to the prevalence of cancer in India; and if not, will he cause some inquiry to be made in India, with a view to the preparation of statistics on the subject.

I have no reliable statistics with regard to the prevalence of cancer in India, but I will ascertain from the Government of India whether any information on the subject is available, or can be procured.

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will issue an annual balance sheet, with the capital and the trading accounts of the Uganda Railway, on the same lines as the balance sheets issued by the railway companies in this country to their shareholders.

So far as the circumstances of the Uganda Railway and those of an English railway correspond, the particulars asked for are already shown in the Annual Parliamentary Reports, of which the last was issued in August, 1901 (Africa No. 8).

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies if Indian medical men bearing British degrees in medicine are eligible for appointments on the West African Medical Staff.

Indian medical men are not eligible for employment on the West African Medical Staff.

Is it not the case that Indian medical men who take the same degree are eligible for work in this country? Why are they excluded from West Africa?

That is an argument I cannot enter into by way of question and answer across the floor of the House. There are circumstances which render undesirable the employment in West Africa of men of Indian birth.

I will take another opportunity of arguing with the right hon. Gentleman.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies, having regard to the fact that forty-three persons lost their lives through the collapse of a house in Cochrane Street, Hong - Kong, last autumn, will he state whether the accident, which is alleged to have been due to defects of construction, was made the subject of a public Inquiry; if so, will he state the result of such Inquiry, and whether it is proposed to take any action against the authority responsible for the inspection of the building while it was in course of construction.

An Inquiry was held. Proceedings were taken against the owner, contractor, and the architect, who were all fined.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War, in view of the fact that the lighthouse at Singapore is constructed on ground wholly or partly owned by the War Office, and that the commercial community at Singapore as well as the masters of ships visiting the port require an improved lighthouse, will the War Office give its favourable consideration to any application which may be made by the responsible authority for such further land as may be required for the erection of a more suitable lighthouse.

Authority for handing over the site was given in April, 1901, and a Report was received from the officer commanding the troops, dated 26th February last, that the lighthouse was in course of erection.

I beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer if his attention has been called to a statement issued by the London Road Car Company, showing that the tax on corn will cost the company £83 15s. per week, equal to a tax of £9 11s. per annum on each of the 456 omnibuses run by the company; and whether, seeing the additional cost the tax will impose on horse-owners, and the effect it will have on horse-breeding in England, he can gee his way to let in maize and oats free.

My attention has been called to the statement in the first paragraph of the Question: but it is clear from a letter I received from the company that their alarm is rather due to the recent exceptionally high price of maize, as compared with its price three or four years ago, and to their fear that this may continue, than to any actual effect of the duty. I do not think it will have the effect on horse-owners or horse-breeding generally that the hon. Member seems to anticipate but, in any case, I could not except maize and oats from the duty.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will assent to the preparation of the Return of agrarian offences throughout England, Scotland, and Wales, standing on today's Paper.

No, Sir. As agrarian crimes are not separately classified in England and Scotland it is not possible to obtain the information asked for.

had on the Paper the following Question—To ask the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that the London and India Docks (Lighterage Rates, &c.) Bill, now awaiting Committee, is in all essential respects identical with the London and India Docks Joint Committee Bill, which was negatived without a division on 15th May, 1901, upon the Motion of the President of the Board of Trade, upon the ground that its proposals could not be considered until full inquiry had been instituted, which was thereupon ordered, and is being conducted by the Royal Commission on the Port of London, whose Report has not yet been made; and whether he will oppose the procedure with the said Bill until the Royal Commission has reported. On being called upon by Mr. SPEAKER to put it the hon. Member said--I have just been informed that the Bill has been withdrawn since my Question was put on the Paper, and under the circumstances I need not trouble the right hon. Gentleman.

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that the matters dealt with by some of the sub-sections of Section 16 of the London and India Docks (Various Powers) Bill, as amended in Committee, come within the terms of reference of the Royal Commission on the Port of London, and that evidence was given before that tribunal thereon; and whether the Government will oppose the further procedure with that Bill also until the Royal Commission has reported.

I understand that the clause of the London and India Docks (Various Powers) Bill, to which my hon. friend refers, was fully considered by the Committee upstairs, who were aware of the terms of the reference to the Royal Commission. I assume that the Committee, after hearing the parties, were satisfied that the powers proposed to be conferred upon the company by the clause are necessary for the regulation of traffic, and that the granting of such powers would not fetter Parliament in dealing with the question hereafter in accordance with any recommendation of the Royal Commission. In these circumstances I am not prepared to oppose the further progress of the Bill.

I beg to ask the President of the Local Government Board whether he will propose the insertion in the Water Bill of clauses to re-adjust the existing water rates, and to charge them on uniform principles through London, and so that the charge for water should be such as to prevent any deficiency in the water fund which might be a burden upon the rates; also provisions for securing uniformity of valuation for assessment, similar to those contained in the Valuation Metropolis Act, 1869, application to the district outside the county of London affected by the Bill; and whether he will propose provisions for the supply of water by meter compulsorily if required by consumers.

Such matters as the re-adjustment of water rates or the supply by meter must, I think, be left to the consideration of the Water Board. A proposal will, however, be made before the Joint Committee to insert a provision in the Bill to the effect that the Water Board shall not, until otherwise authorised by Parliament, reduce the rates charged for the supply of water below those in force during the present quarter. An Amendment of the law, so as to secure uniformity of valuation for assessment, will be one of the main objects of the proposed Government Valuation Bill. It would be outside the scope of the Water Bill.

I beg to ask the President of the Local Government Board whether he has received a resolution from the Green wich Board of Guardians, asking that they be allowed to revise their outstanding loans, and to borrow the money for the Grove Park Workhouse and the cottage homes at Sidcup, on the principle of repaying in sixty years instead of thirty years; and, if so, whether he will accede to the request.

The Guardians have made an application to me on this subject during the present week. I am giving it my consideration, and hope to arrive at a decision with regard to it in the course of a few days.

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture whether his Department has or could obtain any information as to the alleged practice of exporting again to continental countries the offals of corn imported to Liverpool and ground in mills there; and if he has any official reports showing that the prohibitive island railway rates make it cheaper to do this than to send them inland to England and Ireland for the benefit of the British farmer.

May I at the same time ask the President of the Board of Agriculture whether he is aware that the greater portion of the offal derived from the milling of corn imported into and ground at Liverpool is exported to Denmark and other countries; and whether, having regard to the effect of the cost of railway carriage of these feeding stuffs on the British farmer, he can take any steps by legislation or otherwise for the reduction of the cost of carriage of feeding stuff's in England.

The principal ports at which wheat is imported are Liverpool, Hull, London, Bristol, Manchester, Cardiff', Newcastle, Leith, and Glasgow, and most of the largest mills are situated in proximity to them. The quantity of wheat offal produced in the United Kingdom may be roughly taken at 25 per cent. of the wheat grown and imported, about 24,000,000 cwts. of offal. The exports of bran and pollard have only been stated in the Annual Statistics of Trade for the last two years. In 1900 they amounted to 811,000 cwts., and in 1901 to 1,200,000 cwts., and three-fourths of the export was to Denmark, the remainder going to Sweden and the Channel Islands. I have not had time to ascertain the information asked for as to the cost of carriage by sea and by railway respectively, but I will get it.

Cannot the right hon. Gentleman say whether it is not the fact that the export of this offal to Denmark gives the Danish farmer a great advantage over the British and Irish agriculturist?

No doubt it does.

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture whether his attention has been called to the fact that the sellers of artificial manures are enabled to obtain for them much more than their value owing to the method of stating analysis on trade circulars and price lists; whether he is aware that nitrogen is usually put down as ammonia or sulphate of ammonia, although one part of nitrogen is equal to 1·2 of ammonia or 4·7 of sulphate of ammonia; that potash is frequently stated as sulphate of potash or potash salts, although one part of potash is nearly equal to two of either of the latter; and that phosphates are stated as partly or mostly soluble, or the total phosphates and so-many parts soluble, instead of so many parts soluble and so many parts insoluble; and, whether, with a view to prevent purchasers being misled, he will consider the advisability of putting a stop by legislation or otherwise to such methods of stating analysis.

I cannot of course either confirm or disprove the statement in the first part of the Question. In the second and third parts of the Question the hon. Member no doubt refers not to the invoice but to the advertisement, and the practice referred to is, I think, less common in England and Scotland than he assumes it to be in Ireland. The vendor of any fertiliser in a quantity not less than half a hundredweight is required to send to the purchaser an invoice stating the name of the article, whether it is an artificially compounded article or not, and what is at least the percentage of the nitrogen, soluble and insoluble phosphates and potash, if any, contained in it, and that invoice acts as a warranty. It was considered when the I Act was passed that this afforded an adequate protection to the purchaser and I have as yet no sufficient evidence to show that this has not been the case. If the hon. Member will furnish me with evidence I will see if anything further can be done.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as-representing the Postmaster General, whether he will arrange to give a general holiday to the employees of the Post Office on the day of the Coronation.

The Postal and Telegraph arrangements on Coronation Day and the day following are still under consideration; but as soon as they are settled an answer shall be sent to the hon. Member.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether arrangements are being made for a holiday to be given to telegraph clerks, in common with other civil servants, on the occasion of the birthday of His Majesty the King; and also whether arrangements are being made for telegraph clerks to have a holiday on the two days which his Majesty has proclaimed as general holidays on the occasion of His Majesty's Coronation.

As was stated last year in reply to a somewhat similar Question, only those officers of the Department who can be spared from their duties without expense or inconvenience to the public service will be able to enjoy the privilege of a holiday on the occasion of His Majesty's birthday. It has never been possible to grant this privilege to those whose attendance is required on the day in question, and it is not intended to make any change on the present occasion. The Postal and Telegraph arrangements for Coronation day and the day following are still under consideration.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether he is aware that the telegraphic communication between the island of Barra, in the Hebrides, and the mainland has been interrupted for several weeks, and that during the past week it has completely broken down; and whether its immediate repair will be undertaken in view of the fact that the fishing season has now opened, and of the importance to those engaged in the fishing industry of the means of telegraphic communication.

The Postmaster General is aware that the cable broke down last week, namely on the 21st ultimo. Although faulty during the previous week it continued working up to that date. The cable ship, after completing some work on which she was engaged and taking on board the necessary materials, left for the Hebrides on the 28th ultimo and the Postmaster General hopes that with favourable weather the repair will be effected by the end of the present week.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether he is aware that none of the chief clerks in the offices of the Surveyors of Taxes in Ireland are graded in Section A, and that they are debarred from promotion to such section in English surveys owing to their lack of experience in English work; and whether he will have the matter inquired into with the view to the creation of some surveys in such section in Ireland, so as to give the Irish clerks the opportunity of promotion thereto the same as is enjoyed by the English clerks.

It would be out of the question to disturb the existing classification of Irish Tax Surveying Districts for the sake of creating surveys in which the Surveyor's first clerk would be graded in Section A. There is nothing to prevent an Irish clerk from obtaining a transfer to England if he thinks his prospects would be better in that country: and such transfers are as a matter of fact not infrequent.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury if he will state what decision has been arrived at in regard to the proposed increase in the salaries of sheriffs in Scotland.

Increases of £200 per annum each have been sanctioned in the salaries at Airdrie and Lanark and of £100 per annum each in the salaries at Banff', Dunfermline, Falkirk, Hamilton, Paisley, and the two Edinburgh districts. Against the increased cost involved in this arrangement, there will ultimately be a set off of £860 per annum due to certain amalgamations which are to be effected as vacancies occur.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that a memorial from the inhabitants of Cape Clear Island was sent to the Congested Districts Board in April 1901, requesting that increased accommodation should be given for their fishing-boats, and that a reply was received from the Congested Districts Board in the following May to the effect that an engineer would visit the island and report on the proposal; and whether, in view of the fact that no engineer has done so, and that the inhabitants of that island suffer loss and inconvenience for want of a suitable harbour and anchorage for their boats, he will give the matter his immediate attention.

In the absence of my right hon. friend, I have to say that the Board's engineer has visited the island. His Report will be considered by the Board at an early meeting.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that a band belonging to the Mullaghdun, County Fermanagh, Branch of the United Irish League was stopped on the public road leading to Belcoo on the 17th March ultimo by a policeman named Johnston, and that this policeman threatened to break the band instruments, and to turn the members of the band off the road; will he explain by what authority this policeman interfered with the liberty of these persons on this occasion?

The members of the band, who were accompanied by a crowd, were requested not to play when passing the house of an individual in Belcoo who, the hon. Member is well aware, has been held up to public odium, and subjected to rigorous boycotting and intimidation. This demonstration near his house was part of the system of intimidation to which he has been subjected. It was therefore the bounden duty of the police, under the circumstances, as conservators of the public peace, to prevent a hostile demonstration in the vicinity of the residence of this man. The police did not threaten to smash the instruments, or to turn the members of the band off the road.

Was it the policeman who supplied the answer to the right hon. Gentleman?

No, Sir; the answer came in the regular course.

From Johnston, the policeman.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware of the existence in the city of Belfast of an organised body of Orangemen known as the Bogey Clan, whose members march through the streets and attempt to murder Roman Catholic citizens; whether he is aware that one of the local resident magistrates, himself a Protestant, has described the conduct of these men as the worst he ever heard of; and whether, in view of these and of previous disturbances in the streets of Belfast, it is intended to proclaim that city under the Criminal Law and Procedure (Ireland) Act.

A gang of roughs,. estimated to number twenty-four or twenty-five, recently committed a murderous assault on a boy, who is a Roman Catholic. Twenty-one of the gang have been arrested. The resident magistrate described their conduct in the terms stated at the end of the Question. There is absolutely no foundation for the statement that the members of the gang belong to the Orange Society. Persons who break the law in Belfast are brought to justice under the ordinary law, and receive exemplary punishment. It is not intended, therefore, nor has it ever been considered necessary, to utilise the summary jurisdiction clauses of the Crimes Act in that part of Ireland.

May I ask how the right hon. Gentleman knows that these roughs did not belong to the Orange Society?

The Question on the Paper has been fully answered. The hon. Member must not proceed to argue it.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he can state the date upon which the Local Government Board fixed the nominations for county and district councillors in the county of Galway; and whether he can state the date upon which notice of the said fixture, if any, was conveyed to the general public.

The Local Government Board did not fix the dates. This duty devolves upon the County Council and the Returning Officer, and the notice of election issued by the latter should specify the date upon which he will receive nomination papers. The Board has no information on these points.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, whether he is aware that attacks were made on the 16th ult. by an Orange mob at Annaghmore, county Armagh, on Roman Catholic residents of the village; that a young woman near her confinement was so maltreated that her life is in danger; that the authorities have been unable to take her depositions; and that on the same occasion a young man was mutilated beyond recognition; whether any of the men who made this attack have been traced, and, if so, why they are still at liberty; whether, as disturbances also occurred in this locality last Christmas, he will give immediate directions for the re-establishment of the police barracks which were recently closed; and whether he will proclaim the district under the Criminal Law and Procedure (Ireland) Act, and direct that any trials which there may be shall take place before two resident magistrates.

A prosecution has been directed against the ringleaders in this riot. Pending the hearing of the case, I must decline to enter into particulars of the occurrence, further than to say that I am unable to accept the hon. Member's representation of the facts as accurate. No disturbances took place at Annaghmore last Christmas, and it is not proposed to re-establish a police barrack there. The reply to the third paragraph is in the negative.

Seeing that the lives of these two victims are despaired of, why have not their murderers been arrested?

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, in the case of the highest grade of national school teachers, known as first of first-class, who, during the three years ending 31st March, 1900, had charge of small schools with an average attendance not sufficient to warrant their full class salary for the whole period, whether he will state on what basis their consolidated incomes were calculated, and to what extent were their vested rights to a higher salary safeguarded when subsequently appointed as principals to schools with an average of sixty, considering that under these circumstances they would according to the old rules, get full class salary and about double their former capitation and results fees; and will he also state how the income of a first of first class teacher is determined if he leaves a school with an average attendance of sixty and takes charge of one with an average of less than thirty-five.

The consolidated incomes of all teachers were fixed in accordance with Rule 36 (a) of the new Rules and Regulations which were laid on the Table of the House last session. (Command Paper No. 601.) First of first-class teachers joined the new grades under Rule 37 (e). If such a teacher changed from a small school in which the average did not warrant his class salary to a large one in which the average would have warranted it, had the old rules remained in force, the case was specially considered by the Commissioners, and if the equity of the case was not, in their opinion, met by the general rules, they granted such a teacher what was estimated to be his "normal" income in the new school, or they granted an increase in his consolidated income equal to the difference of the rate of class salary which he was paid in his old school and that to which he might have been entitled in his new school. If a first or first-class teacher leaves a school with an average of sixty and goes to a school with an average less than thirty, but not less than twenty, he will be paid second-grade income only, and if the attendance at such school is less than twenty he will be paid third-grade income only.

I beg to ask Mr. Attorney General for Ireland whether he is aware that Messrs. Michael Gormley and P. J. McDermott were convicted and sentenced to two months imprisonment each at a court held under the Criminal Law and Procedure Act in Ballymote on the 24th ult., for a offence alleged to have been committed nearly three months ago; and will he say whether the recently revived clauses of this Act are to be unlimited as to time in their retrospective operation.

By the combined operation of Sections 2, 5, and 11 of the Crimes Act, prosecutions such as this, brought under Section 2, can only be instituted within six months from the commission of the offence.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he will state what sentences were passed by the Court held under the Criminal Law and Procedure (Ireland) Act, recently held in Waterford, on Mrs. O'Mahony and Mr. Lynam for publishing in the Waterford Star the proceedings of certain branches of the United Irish League in the County Waterford; is he aware that in the last quarterly Return of agrarian crimes from Ireland no case of offences against the person, property, or public peace is reported from the whole County Waterford; and will he say on account of what crime committed in the city of Waterford, or for what reasons, the city has been proclaimed.

The persons named were convicted on the charge of publishing matter inciting to intimidation. The proprietress of the newspaper was ordered to find sureties to keep the peace and be of good behaviour, or in default to be imprisoned for two months without hard labour. The editor was sentenced to two months imprisonment without hard labour. On the application of defendants, the magistrates agreed to state a case. The quarterly Returns of agrarian outrages deal only with such crimes as may be classified under the various headings enumerated in these Returns. But these Returns do not take cognisance of cases of boycotting or of the large number of incitements to boycotting and intimidation. which are equally crimes against the law. I must refer to the statement made by my right hon. friend on the 17th April, in which he set forth the reasons for putting the Act in force in the several towns and districts selected.

Is it intended to imprison women in Ireland under the Coercion Act?

Why not send them to concentration camps?

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, with reference to the Return of agrarian offences in Ireland, whether any similar Return is made relative to England, and what authority decides whether an offence committed in Ireland is agrarian or ordinary in character.

The English Returns are not classified so as to distinguish agrarian from non-agrarian offences. The Inspector General of Royal Irish Constabulary decides, after an exhaustive examination into the facts and circumstances of every outrage, whether it should be recorded as agrarian or otherwise, and in this he is assisted by an experienced staff, who have been engaged in this work for many years past.

Is the right I hon. Gentleman aware that there is more: crime in one day in England than in a whole month in Ireland?

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether the Commissioners of National Education have made any recommendations as to placing the Marlborough Street College, Dublin, in a sanitary condition; and, if So, whether any steps are being taken to give effect to such recommendations.

Yes, Sir; an application was made to the Irish Government by the Commissioners in January last for a grant of public money to provide new buildings and equipment for this training college. It has not been found possible to entertain the application in connection with the Estimates for the current financial year, but the proposal will be considered with the Estimates for 1903–4.

But is anything being done to put the house in a sanitary condition?

Yes, Sir.

I beg to ask Mr. Attorney General for Ireland whether his attention has been directed to the practice at present existing in Ireland of charging stamp duty at the rate of 10s. per cent. only on the purchase money on the sale of a farm, subject to the rent, and an additional 10s. per cent. on the redemption value of the annuity payable to the Land Commission on the sale of farms which have been previously purchased under the provisions of the Irish Land Purchase Acts: and whether he Government will introduce some measure to prevent this additional impost on the sale of farms purchased under the Land Purchase Acts.

The practice is as stated, and is in accordance with the general law, applicable to the whole of the United Kingdom, as contained in Section 57 of the Stamp Act, 1891. The reason of the difference between the two sets of circumstances is that in the first case the purchase money represents the full value of the consideration for the transfer, in the second it represents only a part of the consideration, and is exclusive of so much of it as is represented by the incumbrance on the property, the liability for which is transferred to the purchaser.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether he can state the estimated cost of completing the East Wing of the National Library in Dublin; whether he is aware that this addition to the Library was planned in the architect's design as originally accepted, and that the necessity for its completion has been affirmed in the annual reports of the trustees for several years past.

The original estimate for the completion of the East Wing, including a bridge to connect it with the main building, was £4,900, but at least 25 per cent. must be added to this figure in view of increased prices of labour and material since the estimate was framed. The answer to the other Question is in the affirmative, but I understand that an additional room is now being made available, and will be ready for use next week.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether he is aware that a rural postman named Michael Ganly, at Whitehall, Tarmonbarry, has to walk thirteen miles per day delivering and collecting letters for a wage of 5s. 6d. per week; and whether he will see that this man is paid a proper wage.

According to the records of the Department, the length of the delivery in question does not exceed seven and a half miles, and for the distance, as well as in respect of the time occupied, the payment is correct according to the authorised scale.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury, as representing the Postmaster General, whether he is aware that dissatisfaction exists locally with regard to the procedure being adopted in reference to the personal inquiry into the staff arrangements at Limerick Post Office; and will he, with the view of evidence being freely given, instruct the official conducting the inquiry to take evidence from the staff direct in person instead of placing an unsigned document on the notice board inviting complaints.

The Postmaster General thinks that it will be better not to interfere with the discretion of the officer conducting the inquiry into the arrangements of the Limerick Post Office.

What is the use of the inquiry if the staff are afraid to give evidence?

I beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture whether, when he is dealing with the question of the standard of water in butter, he will see his way to safeguard the interests of the Irish salt butter trade so that nothing may be done that will injure or jeopardise this branch of industry. I beg also to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture whether, in the contemplated regulations respecting the percentage of moisture in butter, it is intended that a limit of 16 per cent. shall apply to Irish salt firkin butter; and, if not, can such butter be sold if it contains more than 16 per cent. of moisture, provided that a sufficient disclosure be made to the purchaser at the time of sale, as stated by the Departmental Committee in their Report.

I will answer both the hon. Gentleman's Questions at the same time. So far as regards the sale of salt firkin butter in Ireland, the Question is one for the Irish Office. In Great Britain the limit of 16 per cent. applies to all butter. I cannot express an opinion upon the legal point raised in the second part of the Question.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the vast proportion of the salt butter made in Ireland is sold in this country?

I quite understand that, and I am aware of the fact; but I gather from the evidence that there is no reason for the use of brine in this butter, and if salt were used instead, it would bring it within the standard.

Will the right hon. Gentleman give us an opportunity of discussing this question?

I have no means of doing that.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that insistence of the 16 per cent. standard will practically annihilate the Irish salt butter trade?

Order, order!

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether, inasmuch as fuel and light and cleaning, repairs to buildings, rent, and rates, taxes, and insurance are given under separate headings in the official Returns of the expenditure of public elementary schools, he would consider his decision not to give, as a supplement to [Cd. 315], a statement of the total amounts paid under each of these heads for the year ended 31st August, 1899, at any rate as regards the items of rent and rates and taxes; and if he can now say whether he will be able to lay upon the Table, before the Second Reading of the Education Bill, a Memorandum showing its effect on previous legislation.

In answer to the first part of the Question, I have to say that I am afraid it is impossible, as I am informed, to prepare such a Return in time to serve any useful purpose in the debate on the Education Bill. As regards the second part, a Memorandum was presented some days ago, and if it is not already in the hands of Members, it will be very shortly.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether it is the intention of the Government that the grant under The Voluntary Schools Act, 1897, shall be paid to the local educational authority in respect of new schools not provided by that authority.

To ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether, having regard to the fact that under the new Education Bill the local education authority will be charged with the duty of maintaining and keeping efficient all public elementary schools within their area, it will be permissible for the purposes of the grant, under Section 97 of the Elementary Education Act, 1870 (as amended by The Elementary Education Act, 1897), for the local authority to base an application for such grant on the average attendance at all the public elementary schools within their area, or on the average attendance at such schools only as are actually provided by them.

To ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether, in case a County Borough Council adopts Part III. of the Education Bill and thus abolishes the School Board, the grant now paid to School Boards under Section 97, as amended, will, under those circumstances, be paid in future by the Board of Education to the new local authority.

These are questions of importance, which will, no doubt, come up for discussion on the Committee Stage of the Education Bill and I do not think there is anything to be gained by my answering them at the present time.

Cannot the Government let us know what their intentions are?

Well, after all, these Questions as to the exact purport of the Bill and the intentions of the Government are really much better asked when they can be debated. As a rule, that is so; I do not wish to lay down any hard and fast practice, but on the whole I am disposed to think that this is the best plan.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury if he is aware of the feeling among commercial men that the Board of Trade should be placed in a position in no respect inferior to that of other Departments of State, and that the Minister in charge of the Department should be given the status of a Principal Secretary; and if in view of the fact that no opportunity has been afforded since 1899 of discussing in Committee of Supply matters relating to the Board of Trade, he will set down Vote 8 of Class 2 on an early one of the allotted days.

I do not admit the distinction which the hon. Gentleman attempts to draw between one Cabinet Minister and another. I do not think here is any foundation in fact for it. As regards the latter part of the Question, I would point out that he is labouring under a mistake. The whole of June 13th last was devoted to the Board of Trade Vote, and a division was taken upon it.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether he will place a Supplementary Vote upon the Estimates to defray the expenses of the Council of Defence, in order that the question of imperial defence may be discussed as a whole.

I think that the suggestion of my noble friend is one which can hardly be adopted. In the first place, there are no expenses connected with the Council of Defence, and in the second place, the Council of Defence is, after all, merely a Committee of the Cabinet; and I do not think it would be a desirable thing—certainly it would be an extremely novel thing—that a day should be devoted to discussing the proceedings of a Cabinet Committee.

Will the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that Vote 12 for the Navy and Vote 13 for the Army will not be included in the block of Votes closured at the end of the session?

Of course I will do my best to preserve from the final closure any Vote which the House at large desires to discuss, I will consider the particular application of that general principle in consequence of my noble friend's desire.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether, in the event of the Rules of Procedure being passed at this day's sitting, making Friday this week a private Members' day, he will move the necessary Motions for devoting that Friday to Supply.

I beg at the same time to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether, having regard to the importance of discussing the Rules of Procedure at a reasonable hour, he will, rather than lengthen the sitting after twelve o'clock, continue the discussion of the Rules on Friday, instead of engaging the House on the Second Reading of the Bill regulating the Sale of Ice Creams in Scotland, which has precedence on that day.

Before the right hon. Gentleman answers that Question, may I ask whether, if the block of Rules which the right hon. Gentleman has expressed his desire to see passed this week is not concluded at twelve o'clock tonight, he will allow them to be continued tomorrow in order that they may be brought to a conclusion by the dinner hour on that day? Perhaps, by the permission of the House, I may venture to say that I have every confidence that, if the arrangement which I suggest is made, that block of Rules, including the proposed Resolution transferring notices from Tuesday to Wednesday and Wednesday to Friday, may be, and will be, disposed of by the dinner hour tomorrow.

If I understand the right hon. Gentleman, he proposes one of those contracts which are always kept in this House, and which, I think, would be for the convenience of the House in the shape in which he proposes it. It is that the block of Rules which I have always said ought to be passed in the course of this week should be finished by dinner time tomorrow. If that be the understanding, I shall be glad, as far as I am concerned, to agree to it.

Perhaps I may be allowed to say one word. I am afraid my position in reference to this matter has been somewhat misunderstood. The other night I was unable, on behalf of my hon. friends around me, to give the pledge asked for that the block of Rules should be finished at this sitting. But I think the suggestion of the right hon. Member for South Aberdeen is a reasonable one, and, if the Government will abstain from moving the suspension of the Twelve o'clock Rule tonight, there will be no difficulty in finishing this block of Rules at an early hour tomorrow afternoon. As far as my hon friends are concerned, we should certainly, on the condition I have named, agree to the suggestion from the Front Opposition Bench.

Has the Leader of the House had any consultation on this question with independent Members on his own side who have taken so deep an interest in the new Rules?

May I ask, supposing the arrangement were carried into effect, what business the right hon. Gentleman proposes to take after dinner tomorrow?

I should imagine, Sir, that the House would feel that it had done its duty for the day, and would not be very much disposed to enter on other business. As regards the Question of the right hon. Baronet, it is true that I have not consulted the one or two hon. Gentlemen on this side who have taken a particular interest in these discussions; but I cannot believe that they would set themselves against an arrangement which was evidently agreeable to the great bulk of the House on both sides.

Do I understand the right hon. Gentleman will not move the suspension of the Twelve o'clock Rule?

In the cir cumstances I do not propose to move the suspension Rule.

There is down for tomorrow a Motion in which I take a deep interest, shared by a great number of hon. Members on my own side of the House. It is to be taken at the commencement of private business tomorrow afternoon, and I have given an undertaking to proceed with it, if possible, tomorrow. Since the announcement just made, I have had, of course, no opportunity of consulting my friends, and I am in a position of some difficulty, because I understand that when the new Rules have been passed I shall no longer be in a position to bring this on, as I am under the old Rule. I am very reluctant indeed to stand in the way of the House, in regard to the proposed arrangement for tomorrow, by moving, as I undoubtedly have the right to do, this Motion at the commencement of private business; but if the right hon. Gentleman will give me the smallest assurance that I shall on another occasion have an opportunity of proceeding with this question, then without hesitation I will agree to the course proposed.

As I understand it the matter referred to by my right hon. friend is one affecting private business. It does not relate to any particular Bill, but only to the general Rule under which private business is done. I take it that if it is in order at the beginning of the afternoon sitting, it will be in order at nine o'clock under the new Rules, and therefore I do not think my right hon. friend's chance of having a debate on it is in any way injured.

If that is so, I shall not stand in the way of the proposed arrangement for a moment.

Are we to understand that only the block of Rules is to be completed to-morrow?