To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if, in view of the fact that appointments to the clerical staff of the Congested Districts Board in Ireland have of late years been controlled by Civil Service competitive examination, and that appointments have been recently made to these positions in the case of which this rule has been relaxed or suspended, he will state if the persons so appointed were nominated or recommended by the Under-Secretary to the Commissioners who have the appointment; if this rule has ever been relaxed in the case of a Protestant candidate; and under what circumstances it was relaxed in the present case at the instance of the Under-Secretary and to the exclusion of Protestant candidates. (Answered by Mr. Wyndham.)Appointments to the permanent clerical establishment of the Congested Districts Board are filled by means of competitive examination conducted in the ordinary manner by the Civil Service Commissioners. The last occasion on which such appointment was made was in 1898. The Question presumably refers to a class of official described as temporary clerks, the appointment of whom rests with the Board. A Sub-Committee of the Board was formed in May to select candidates for vacancies these temporary positions. Of the five persons appointed since May, four were recommended by the Committee, on which the Under-Secretary did not sit. All five nominations were approved by the Board. There is no official record of the religious denominations of the candidates.

To ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is aware that the leading physicians and the medical officers of health of the United Kingdom have unanimously condemned the consumption of immature raw potable spirits as injurious to the health of those who drink them; and whether he will take steps to compulsorily retain such spirits in bond for a period of at least three years, as is done in Canada and other countries. (Answered by Mr. Austen Chamberlain.) I do not quite know to what the first paragraph in the hon. Member's Question is intended to refer. With regard to the latter part of the Question, I must ask the hon. Member to refer to an Answer which I gave to a Question of his on the same subject on the 15th of February last,† to which I have nothing to add.

To ask the Secretary to the Board of Education how many reports on the Art instruction in secondary schools have been made to the Board during the last twelve months by Science inspectors; whether it is with the approval of the Board that such inspectors should inspect the Art work at such schools in the absence of the Art master, and when no Art instruction is going on, and report thereon to the Board; and whether he will place upon the Table the full report by the

† See (4) Debates, cxxix., 1326.

To ask the President of the Board of Trade, seeing that the charges made on British vessels entering United States ports are estimated to produce upwards of £70,000 annually, and that the United States, like other countries, will benefit by the reduction of 12½ per cent. made in the light dues on vessels entering British ports, will he say whether arrangements have yet been made with the Foreign Office with a view to secure a compensating reduction in the charges made on British vessels entering United States ports. (Answered by Mr. Gerald Balfour.) My hon. friend will recollect that I promised him in July, 1903, that I would have the figures carefully gone into, and consider whether any representations could usefully be made to the United States Government, and that I informed him in August last year that I had come to the conclusion that there was not a sufficient case to justify a representation. Nothing has since occurred which enables me to modify that opinion.

To ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether he is aware that upon their Promotion to the establishment the senior assistant clerks of the abstractor class were not, in many cases, made aware that they would be compulsorily retired at the age of sixty-five, either by the Treasury or by the heads of their respective departments; and, if so, whether he can take any steps to prevent their compulsory retirement at this age. (Answered by Mr. Victor Cavendish.) The Treasury has no power to exempt abstractors or assistant clerks from the operation of the Order in Council of the 29th November, 1898, which prescribes compulsory retirement at the age of sixty-five.

To ask the Postmaster-General if he will state whether, in view of the success of the experiment in installing telephones in county Cavan, he will extend facilities for private installation by reducing the charge below the amount of £7 10s. per annum now charged for connection with six small villages and the county town; will the remaining towns in the county be connected; and will he further state the cost of private installations in rural Switzerland, Sweden, and Denmark. (Answered by Lord Stanley.) During the nine months ended 31st May last, 959 calls were made from the telephone call offices established at Cavan and the seven rural post offices in the district. The receipts were £7 17s. 9d., and the cost of the service for the same period was about £30, without including any interest on the capital cost of establishing the call offices, which was about £150. The arrangement has, I understand, been of advantage to the district, but it is not a remunerative one to the Post Office. There does not appear to be any appreci able demand for the establishment of telephone exchanges in connection with this arrangement. If there were, I should be happy to consider whether the message rate subscription of £3 a year, with a fee of one penny for each originated call, could be offered to subscribers. The present arrangement provides only for communication between Cavan and rural post offices in the neighbourhood. If the system were connected with the general telephone system of the country, the cost of the service would be very greatly increased. I have no information as to the existence of small telephone systems of this kind in Switzerland, Sweden, and Denmark, or of the charges which would be made in such cases. The cost of any such arrangement must, however, necessarily depend upon local conditions.

To ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is aware that the diminution in the duty payments on cheap foreign wines is partly caused by the manufacture, free of duty, in this country of wine from dried currants and raisins, which manufacture is blended with the cheap classes of imported wines, and that such mixtures are almost invariably sold under the designation of some foreign wine; and, if so, whether he proposes to take any steps to protect the Revenue and safeguard the public from this species of fraud. (Answered by Mr. Austen Chamberlain.) I am aware that allegations have been made in the sense of the Question, but the information at present at my disposal is not sufficient to enable me to determine what measure of truth may be contained in them. I am, however, satisfied that a case for inquiry exists, and I propose in the course of the autumn to institute further investigation of the subject, and, if necessary, to consider whether measures are required for the protection of the Revenue. As regards protection of the public from fraud, it is open to any purchaser who may be defrauded by a false trade description to take proceedings under the Merchandise Marks Acts; and, for this purpose, members of the trade are really in as good a position to take action as any public Department, though, for both, the difficulties in the way of establishing proof of an offence are great.

To ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer what is the current price per gallon of alcohol used for industrial purposes in Great Britain, France, Germany, and Belgium respectively. (Answered by Mr. Austen Chamberlain.) I regret that I have not the information required to answer this Question.

To ask the Secretary of State for India whether he is aware that in some recent cases the promotion of officers of the Indian Army, formerly the Staff Corps, as provided for under the regulations, viz., to captain after eleven years service, to major after twenty years service, to lieutenant-colonel after twenty-six years service has been retarded by order of the Commander-in-Chief, although they have completed the terms of service above set out, and have satisfied the conditions of service in operation during that period, and have passed the tactical examination; whether it is stated in the regulations that promotion is to he governed by such regulations as the Secretary of State may make from time to time; whether on the existing regulations stated, the Commander-in-Chief, while vested with full powers as to promotions in regimental appointments, in staff appointments, and in the Army departments, has also been authorised by the Secretary of State to retard promotions of officers in the Indian Army after time service; and, if so, when and where the new regulation has been published. (Answered by Mr. Secretary Brodrick.) Under Royal Warrant promotions in the Indian Army are made under such regulations as may be laid down from time to time by the Secretary of State for India in Council. Acting on this authority my predecessor in Council approved of the retardation of promotion in the case of officers who, notwithstanding that they may have completed the required length of service, have proved themselves to be inefficient. Such cases are determined by the Commander-in-Chief in India, subject to the approval of the Government of India, and are reported to the Secretary of State in Council. Up to the present the promotion of four officers has been retarded. The Government of India has been directed to publish the new regulation in Indian Army Orders. I may observe that the ordinary periods of service for promotion to captain and major are nine and eighteen years respectively, and not as given in the Question of the hon. Member.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India if he will state what has been done, or is now being done, in India for carrying out the recommendations of the Scott-Moncrieff Commission for the increase of water-storage works of comparatively small size and cost; what surveys for actual work have been made, more especially in Northern Gujerat and the Deccan; what definite projects have been prepared and sanctioned and in what locality has actual work been done; and is any water actually being impounded during the present monsoon. (Answered by Mr. Secretary Brodrick.) May I refer the right hon. Gentleman to the reply made to the hon. Member for Flintshire on Monday, the 25th instant.†

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether in view of the fact that the East Indian State Railway have lately placed an order for locomotives in Germany, and that the employment in the engineering trades is reported by the Board of Trade to be dull, and that the percentage of unemployed trade union members is more than double what it was this time last year, he can take steps to secure a portion of this or similar orders for this country. (Answered by Mr. Secretary Brodrick.) I am informed by the East Indian

† See page 1034.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that Police Constable Lett, who summoned a civilian at Kanturk Petty Sessions on the 16th instant for the offence of riding a bicycle on the footpath near the town, admitted in Court that he himself had committed a similar offence a short time previously; and, if so, will he state what notice will the constabulary authorities take of the policeman's conduct. (Answered by Mr. Wyndham.) The facts are correctly stated. The constable gave an explanation of his action to the magistrates, who accepted it as satisfactory. The Inspector-General, under the circumstances, does not propose to take official notice of the constable's conduct on the present occasion.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that net fishing has been practised recently on the Upper Bann contrary to the law; and, if so, will the Government take immediate steps to put an end to this illegal conduct. (Answered by Mr. Wyndham.) The Department has received complaints relative to alleged illegal netting in the Upper Bann, which were communicated to the conservators of the district in whom the enforcement of the inland fishery laws is vested. The Department has recently decided to make a grant towards the funds of these conservators for the purpose of the protection of the fisheries of Lough Neagh and its tributaries. This will enable better supervision to be effected.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieu- tenant of Ireland if he can state under what circumstances was a Nationalists' band from Ballyvarley allowed to parade the road leading from Banbridge to Scarva for almost the entire day on the 13th instant; and whether, in view of the fact that the police authorities prohibited Protestant bands parading on this road, he will, in the interest of the public peace, give instructions against similar band parades in future. (Answered by Mr. Wyndham.) The Nationalist band paraded the road between Rings End and Ballyvarley School, in accordance with its annual practice, on the 13th July. The band did not leave its own locality. No Protestant band attempted to play on this portion of the road.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War how many men were supplied from the Militia Reserve to their linked Line battalions during the late war in South Africa; also how many men of the Militia Reserve fought in the actions of Colenso, Pieter's Hill, and Spion Kop. (Answered by Mr. Secretary ArnoldForster.) 13,014 Militia Reserve were posted to Line battalions during the late war in South Africa; a large majority to their linked battalions, but some few to other corps. The exact number of the latter cannot be stated without reference to each Militia unit. No men of the Militia Reserve were at Colenso, as they were not called up till December 1899. 440 Militia Reserve were posted to battalions which fought at Spion Kop, and 1,041 to battalions which fought at Pieter's Hill, but it cannot be definitely stated how many were present at each engagement.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether the refusal of the London County Council to take charge of the guns allotted to London has been communicated to him; whether he has received an offer from the Council of the city of Westminster to take charge of them; and, if so, whether he will entertain this offer favourably. (Answered by Mr. Secretary Arnold-Forster.) The refusal of the London County Council has been communicated to the War Office through the General Officer Commanding Fourth Army Corps. The allotment of the trophies referred to within the area of the Fourth Army Corps is for the General Officer Commanding to decide, but I understand that one gun has been allotted to the city of Westminster.

To ask the Secretary of State for War whether it is proposed to recommend His Majesty to hold a review of Volunteers in Hyde Park prior to the close of the London season. (Answered by Mr. Secretary Arnold-Forster.) No, Sir. No such proposal has been submitted to the King.

To ask the Secretary of State for War whether any steps are being taken to investigate the mode of infection in dum-dum and other allied parasitic fevers in India, with the view of preventing the heavy mortality and invaliding from these fevers among British soldiers in India, and so diminishing the annual draft now necessary. (Answered by Mr. Secretary Arnold-Forster.) Steps are being taken to investigate the mode of infection in dumdum fever; but it will be some time before the investigation will be completed, and further evidence must be awaited before anything in the nature of special preventive measures can be intelligently formulated. Assuming that by "other allied parasitic fevers" malarial fevers are referred to, preventive measures have been adopted at military stations in India where such fevers are prevalent. It may be added that, as regards other fevers, a special Commission is investigating Malta fever, the occurrence of which in India is becoming more recognised, and a special Committee is investigating anti-typhoid inoculation.

To ask the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that Captain Harry Lambart, Kimberley Light Horse, late Commandant of Klerksdorp, Transvaal, was arrested and placed in solitary confinement, contrary to King's Regulations, and that his services were dispensed with from His Majesty's Army without a trial; will he explain why applications for the reason of this treatment have been ignored and applications for a reopening of his case refused; and whether, considering the services of this officer, for which he received the written thanks of Lord Roberts and other generals, he will order an inquiry, at which Captain Lambart can attend, to inquire into the charge of misappropriation of public money. (Answered by Mr. Secretary Arnold-Forster.) The proceedings of Courts of inquiry on officers serving with Colonial corps have not been forwarded to the War Office. The only document bearing on this case is a short narration of the surrender of Klerksdorp with a marginal note to the effect that "Captain Lambart's services have been dispensed with—Pretoria, 5th October, 1900." As regards the charge of misappropriation of public money, no report on the subject has reached the War Office. Captain Lambart was given information to the above effect in January last. I can see no grounds for instituting the inquiry suggested in the Question.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether he is aware that on board H.M.S. "Lion" at Devonport boys are constantly subjected to floggings with birches and canes for inability to swim a required distance; by whose authority, and on whose instigation, are these punishments inflicted; and whether it is intended to take any steps for the abolition of the punishment of flogging in the Navy for deficiency in physical strength.

The Answer to the first part of the Question is in the negative; but, by the direction of the commanding officer of H.M.S. "Lion," certain boys who, through laziness and inattention during swimming instruction, failed to make sufficient progress, were after due warning punished by caning. In no case was any punishment inflicted where failure was due to deficiency in physical strength.

After what investigation was it done? What inquiries were made into the conduct of the boys? Were they simply laughing?

After careful investigation by the commanding officer and after due warning.

How many boys were flogged?

I do not know how many were flogged, but I do know that before this light punishment was inflicted there were 126 boys who, after thirteen months instruction in swimming, had failed to profit by it—that was in January last—and now there are only seven, showing it is better that boys should be caned than run the risk of drowning.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War what is the annual cost of the military forces now maintained in South Africa, and what is the capital cost incurred for barracks and hutments.

The annual cost of the present garrison in South Africa is about £3,100,000. The capital expenditure incurred up to 31st March last on barracks and hutments is approximately £2,550,000.

And is that expenditure on barracks, etc., still going on?

Yes.

Can the hon. Gentleman give an estimate of how much more is to be spent?

That is impossible, but I should say it would be about £1,000,000.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he has yet received the despatch from Lord Milner, asked for by cable on 23rd June, relative to the arrival and landing at Durban of coolies from the steamship "Tweeddale" and their transmission to Johannesburg; and, if so, whether he will state the terms of Lord Milner's report.

I have received the despatch which encloses a report by the Superintendent of Foreign Labour, Mr. Evans, who has had a prolonged experience of Chinese labourers in the Straits. The report is somewhat lengthy, and, if the hon. Member concurs, I propose to give the paragraphs which are relevant in the form of a written Answer. Appended is the written Answer referred to:— Extract from a report by Mr. W. Evans, Superintendent of the Foreign Labour Department, Johannesburg, on the arrival at Durban of Chinese labourers by the s.s. "Tweeddale." On the arrival of the ship she was boarded at the outer anchorage by the port health officer and my boarding officer, and on the return of the health officer I went aboard myself with some of the representatives of the Mines Labour Importation Agency. I went all over the ship with the surgeon-superintendent and spoke to many of the men. They all seemed cheerful and eager to get up to the mines and begin work. Owing to the bad weather outside I obtained permission from the Port Authorities to bring the ship in and moor her in the bay. Police were posted on board to prevent any communication with the shore. At daylight on Monday, 20th inst., she was taken alongside the wharf at the Bluff and as soon as possible my staff took charge of the decks and made the best possible arrangements for carrying out their work on board, as the depot was not yet ready. During the three days, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, the 1,049 men were checked, their contracts were registered, their passports were issued to them, their marks of identification including finger prints, were taken and they were each photographed. The surgeon-superintendent or his assistant was present during the whole of the work, and all those who had passed through his hands for beri-beri were ordered to stand down for further examination. Finally, out of the 1,049 who arrived, 1,006 were passed as fit, three died while the ship was at the wharf and forty who were suffering from beri-beri were sent back to China by the same ship. On Tuesday, the 21st inst., 299 men who had been passed and registered on Monday were entrained, and left for Johannesburg at 8.15 a.m., arriving at their destination, East Rand, at 12 noon on the 22nd inst. They travelled in a train specially set apart for this purpose, composed of ordinary third class carriages, with the centre compartment dosed in and arranged with sanitary conveniences. Electric light and drinking water were provided for each carriage. On Wednesday 360 men were sent off at the same hour, and on Thursday 347. A conductor accompanied each train, and I myself went up with the last train. The rationing of the men on the journey was done by contract, the contractor being the present railway department contractor. Meals were served at Pietermaritzburg (1 p.m.), Estcourt (6.30 p.m.), and Standerton (6.30 a.m.). The rice and rations were served in tin cans and dishes holding sufficient for eight men, and one of each was passed into each compartment, the men carrying their own rice bowls and chopsticks. The food was of excellent quality, sufficient, and nicely served. No disturbance occurred either while the ship was at the wharf or during the train journey, and the arrangements made by the railway and police authorities were perfectly carried out.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies if there is any provision in the Transvaal Estimates for the year 1904-5 for the repayment to the Imperial Treasury of the £1,250,000 on account of material, and the £900,000 on account of transport and stores, outstanding since the transfer of the railways from military to civil control; and when he expects to obtain a settlement of these claims.

The first sum of £1,250,000 is still in dispute. It will be seen on reference to page twenty-six of Cd. 2102, that whatever amount is finally settled to be due will be found out of the loan and not out of Transvaal funds proper. The second sum of £900,000, or rather £843,000, on account of transport and stores supplied for repatriation purposes, Lord Milner has intimated that he expects to be able to pay off before the end of the calendar year (see page forty of Cd. 2102) by the sale of remaining supplies and stock.

Do I understand the right hon. Gentleman to say that he expects to obtain a settlement of both sums before the coming year?

I said nothing about the settlement of the first sum, but I certainly expect one in the case of the second.

The first sum named in my Question has already been two years under consideration. Cannot the right hon. Gentleman give us an assurance?

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he is in a position to state to what extent the Legislative Council under the proposed scheme of local self-government for the Transvaal will be elective, and to make any statement as to the nature of the proposed franchise; whether he will be in a position to lay the details of the scheme before the close of the present session; and, if not, whether any operative steps will be taken in the matter before Parliament has had an opportunity of discussing the proposals.

I would refer the hon. Member to my Answer to the similar Question put to me yesterday,† in which I stated that I was not in a position to give details at present. I fear that it will not be possible for me to do so before the close of the present session, and I cannot undertake to delay action in the matter until Parliament reassembles.

Will the right hon. Gentleman give a pledge that no steps shall be taken before Parliament has an opportunity of dealing with the matter?

No, Sir, I cannot give any pledge with regard to that.

Then I shall ask Mr. Speaker to receive a notice of a Motion for adjournment on this subject.

It will be of no avail. No such Motion can be made today, as it is a day allotted, under the Resolution of the House of the 5th July, to the Licensing Bill.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether any correspondence has pissed between His Majesty's Government and the Canadian Government relating to a desire on the part of Canada for more extensive power in treaty making when Canadian interests are involved; and, if so, will he lay the correspondence on the Table of the House.

No such correspondence has taken place.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether any protest has been received from the Canadian Government respecting the action of the British Consul at Rio Grande du So!, Argentine Republic,

†See page 1042.

No protest has yet been received from the Canadian Government in regard to the incident referred to by the hon. Member, but the matter has been raised in the Canadian House of Commons, and it appears that the Government of Canada proposes shortly to communicate with me on the subject, which will be carefully considered when the facts are before His Majesty's Government.

I beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is aware that the leading physicians and the medical officers of health of the United Kingdom have unanimously condemned the consumption of immature raw potable spirits as injurious to the health of those who drink them; and whether be will take steps to compulsorily retain such spirits in bond for a period of at least three years, as is done in Canada and other countries.

The Board of Inland Revenue are not aware of the alleged condemnation. With regard to the latter part of the Question, I must ask the hon. Member to refer to an Answer which I gave to a Question of his on the same subject on the 15th of February last,† to which I have nothing to add.

I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he has received any report from His Majesty's Acting Consul-General at the port of Yokohama, Japan, of the proceedings of the Naval Court which was summoned by the Acting Consul-General at Yokohama, on 12th April, 1904, to inquire into the charge of wilful

† See (4) Debates, cxxix., 1326.

Yes, Sir; I have received the report of the Naval Court held at Yokohama in April to investigate the complaint made by the master of the Ras Bera," that certain members of the crew were guilty of continued disobedience to lawful commands, and continued wilful neglect of duty and general insubordination subversive of discipline. The Naval Court, having heard evidence on both sides, found the charge proved, and passed the sentence referred to in the Question. From the information I have received, it appears that the vessel did not carry contraband of war. The matter was dealt with by a duly constituted Court with the Acting Consul-General as President, and the Executive have no power to interfere with the finding.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Board of Education what amount of grants have been paid out of public taxation to the Girls Public Day School Company since the 31st March last; whether that company still pays its shareholders 4 per cent. dividend; whether these public grants to dividend-paving companies are to be continued; and, if so whether they will be extended to other educational adventures for private profit.

No grants have been paid since 31st March, 1904, to the Girls Public Day School Company, but grants will be paid of the year ending 31st July, 1904. I believe the last dividend declared by the company was 4 per cent. For the future a school owned or conducted by a company will only be eligible for recognition if the company is wound up and its property vested in trustees on trust for the purpose of secondary education. The amount of the share capital, so far as actually expended on site, buildings, or equipment, can in such cases be treated as a charge on the property, subject to the repayment of principal with interest at the rate of not more than 4 per cent. within a limited period of time. It may be necessary to allow certain companies who are taking steps to comply with these conditions another year under existing conditions, in order to give them time to make the necessary alterations in their constitution. As regards the last paragraph of the Question, I must refer the hon. Member to Article 20 of the new Regulations for Secondary Schools, which expressly lays down, as a condition of recognition, that a school must not be conducted for private profit.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Board of Education whether he will grant a Return dealing with officials employed by county boroughs in England with populations between 20,000 and 100,000 in carrying out the provisions of the Technical Instruction Act.

The Technical Instruction Acts were repealed by the Education Act of 1902, and as a consequence were no longer in force on 1st June, 1904, in any county borough, with three exceptions. Hence the Return asked for by the hon. Member cannot be supplied. I do not consider that the Board would be justified in granting any Return on the lines of the Return asked for. Technical instruction in county boroughs is now being provided as part of schemes for the general provision of education other than elementary, and consequently the arrangements are at present in a very transitional stage. The salaries of teachers in this kind of instruction depend largely upon the very varying lengths of time for which they are employed; any general statement under this head would therefore be of little value. On the other hand, the making of such a Return would involve county borough councils and this Board in a large amount of labour and expense to which the value of the Return would be wholly incommensurate.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that an application was made by the Congested Districts Board for assistance in constructing a road from Cahircivane to Coppal in the Cahirciveen Union, county Kerry; can he state the reason of the delay in entertaining the application, in view of the fact that two years have elapsed since it was sent in; and whether the Board will now give the required assistance.

The cost of the road was estimated by the applicants to amount to £1,582. There are many other works with prior claims on the available funds of the Board, and it is unable to entertain the application for assistance in the present case.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if he is aware that Mr. H. Lewis, of Loughrea, was informed by the solicitor having carriage of the proceedings in the Land Judge's Court, that he would recommend a proposal by him for the purchase of his Court tenancy on the estate of the trustees of D. J. Burke, at the sum of £700, or twenty-three-and-a-ha lf years purchase of the rent; and that the Congested Districts Board made an offer over the head of the occupying tenant, Mr. Lewis, to purchase this holding at £1,100, or thirty-six-and-two-third years purchase of the rent; and, if so, will be state who are the members of the Board who were present when it was decided to pay this sum for the farm; and what explanation is forthcoming for an offer by the Board so much in excess of the value arrived at by the solicitor having carriage of the sale.

Mr. Lewis has informed the Board that the solicitors having carriage of the sale stated they would recommend Mr. Lewis' offer. They did recommend its acceptance to the owners, by whom, however, it was considered insufficient. Mr. Lewis held Lot 1 on a lease pending the sale—i.e. a Court letting—at £30 a year. The Poor Law valuation is £66 5s. a year. The Board's offer of £1,100, or sixteen-and-three-fifths years purchase of the valuation, was reasonable. The land is held to be well worth the money. It is no part of the Government policy to establish tenancies which do not exist. It is part of the Government policy to purchase untenanted land for the purpose of relieving congestion. The members of the Board present at the meeting when it was decided to make the offer were Sir Antony MacDonnell, Lord Shaftesbury, Mr. Geoghegan, Mr. Kennedy, and the Rev. Denis O'Hara. The decision was in conformity with the usual practice of the Board.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman how it was in the interests of the estate that Mr. Lewis should hold the farm at 50 per cent. under the Government valuation?

I think the hon. Gentleman is quite familiar with re-lettings of the Court lands. When an estate is in the Land Judge's Court, in order to derive some revenue from it, it is let from year to year for any sum that can be obtained.

For the advanof the receiver.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if the Congested Districts Board became the purchasers of Lot 2 of the estate of the trustees of D. J. Burke; who are the parties described as trustees; did the Congested, Districts Board decline to purchase Lot 2 unless they were also accepted as purchasers of Lot 1, in the occupation of Mr. Lewis; and, if so, whether, seeing that these lots are situate in different counties and separate from each other, he will state under what circumstances did the Board determine to deprive Mr. Lewis of his holding.

(1) The reply to the first query is, Yes. (2) The trustees under the will of the owner are the Most Rev. Dr. Healy and the Rev. J. Cahalan. The reply to the third query is, Yes. There were two lots: Lot 1, untenanted, and leased pending sale on a Court letting to Mr. Lewis; Lot 2, tenanted and congested. The Board would not have bought Lot 2 unless they could also secure Lot 1 to relieve the congestion in Lot 2. Their action was in strict accordance with all previous legislation dealing with the relief of congestion by migration as embodied in the Act of 1891 and amending Acts.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether, in view of the fact that more than one-half of those on the Warden Estate, at Sneem, are weekly or future tenants or caretakers who never had an opportunity of having a fair rent fixed, the Estates Commissioners will inquire carefully into the proposed terms of purchase of the whole estate before the terms are sanctioned.

No application in respect of the sale of this estate is before the Estates Commissioners. In the case of non-judicial holdings it is always their practice to have the estate inspected before sanctioning advances.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if he will state the decision of the Treasury on the application of the Portal Veterinary Inspectors of the Board of Agriculture in Ireland to be placed on the same terms as to pension as all the other officers of that Department.

Pension rights have been conceded in the cases of sixteen of these inspectors. In four other cases an increase of pay has been granted.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if he win state what steps are taken to provide for the drainage of the River Riffey, in consequence of the overflow of which last year two mill were drowned near Edgeworths-town.

I have nothing to add to my reply to the hon. Member's previous Question of the 24th February on the same subject,† except to say that I have ascertained that the flooding of the townlands named in that Question is not due to any defects in the condition of the adjoining drainage district of Inny, for which the trustees would be responsible.

Will the right hon. Gentleman refer this matter to the Board of Works, so that an inspector may visit the place?

My Answer in based on information supplied by the Board of Works.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that, in consequence of the failure of the auditor of the Loan Fund Board in Ireland to require debentures to be compared with entries in the books of the Edgeworthstown Loan Fund Society, a number of people have lost their life's savings by reason of the issue to them of bogus debentures by the late secretary to that society; and what steps he intends taking to afford relief to these people.

The losses sustained by the persons referred to are not due to the reason alleged in the Question. They lodged their money with an official of the society who was not authorised to receive it, and who not only failed to notify the lodgments to his committee, but failed to record the receipts in the books of the

† See (4) Debates, cxxx., 842.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if he will state what are the functions and powers of the Loan Fund Board for Ireland; whether it is compulsory on their auditors to summon debenture holders before them in order to compare their debentures with the entries on the local society's hooks; and, if so, are entries made by such auditors in verification of such debentures.

The functions and powers of the Board are enumerated in the Act 6 and 7 Vic. cap. 91. The reply to the second part of the Question is in the negative. Such an arrangement would be impracticable, as many of the debenture holders live at a considerable distance from the offices of the local loan fund societies.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that an extern teacher of Irish is employed in the Gortnabinni school, in the parish of Bonaire, county Kerry; and whether, in view of the fact that this teacher would be available for giving instruction in Irish as an extra subject in the Tulloha school, in the same parish, he will state what is the reason for refusing facilities for instruction in their native language to the children attending Tulloha School.

The reply to the first part of the Question is, Yes. The school referred to in the second part of the Question is under different management. The appointment of an extern teacher of Irish is a matter for the manager of the school, with whose discretion the Commissioners cannot interfere. The teaching of Irish is not compulsory in national schools.

Will the managers reconsider their decision if the school children leave the school in a body?

That is a matter for the managers.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he will grant the two Returns relating to Training Colleges in Ireland, standing on to-day's Paper.

The information will be prepared and communicated to the hon. Member. I hardly think it is of sufficient public importance to embody in a formal Parliamentary Paper. The following are the Returns referred to:— Marlborough Street Training College (Building Grants)—Return showing—(1) The total amount awarded as grants for building and equipment to each of the training colleges under local management in Ireland in accordance with the letter of Mr. Arthur Balfour to the Commissioners of National Education of the 25th day of November, 1890; and (2) The amount which each such total grant would give as a capitation grant on the number of students for which each such college was recognised. Marlborough Street Training College.—Return showing—(1) The total number of students admitted for the first t me to Marlborough Street Training College in each year from 1892 to 1903, both inclusive; (2) The number of Presbyterian students admitted for the first time to Marlborough Street Training College in each year from 1892 to 1903, both inclusive, and the percentage of such number to the total number admitted; (3) The percentage of Presbyterian pupils on the rolls of national schools in Ireland in each year from 1892 to 1903, both inclusive; (4) The percentage of national schools under Presbyterian managers in each year from 1892 to 1903, both inclusive; (5) The number of Methodist students admitted for the first time to Marlborough Street Training College in each year from 1892 to 1903, both inclusive, and the percentage of such number to the total number admitted; (6) The percentage of Methodist pupils on the rolls of national schools in Ireland in each year from 1892 to 1903 both inclusive; and (7) The percentage of national schools under Methodist managers in each year from 1892 to 1903, both inclusive.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether the Estates Commissioners have received any proposal for the sale of the estate of Mr. Arthur M'Guire, situate at Miltron, Carrigallen, county Leitrim; and, if so, what steps have they taken to bring about the reinstatement in his holding on that estate of an evicted tenant named Thomas Rourke.

I have referred this Question to the Estates Commissioners, but so far have not received their report. Perhaps the hon. Member will repeat it to-morrow.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether the Local Government Board have considered the special circumstances of the case of Rate Collector Hanson, Castlerea, to whom the Roscommon County Council admit they owe the sum of £166 15s. 6d., as arrears of poundage; and whether the Local Government Board still refuse their sanction to the payment of this debt.

The Board has given the matter careful consideration, but is satisfied that the circumstances are not such as would justify the granting of further concessions to this collector.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether his attention has been called to further complaints respecting the detention of Irish saltless butter shipped for the English markets; and whether he will consider the advisability of getting the Department in Ireland to move with the railway companies to facilitate the export of Irish produce so that it may be placed on an equal footing with foreign produce coming to the same markets.

Complaints have been received and are being investigated by the Department.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that for a period now extending into the fifth year the Veterinary Branch of the Department of Agriculture has been worked from Touche's Section of Dublin Castle; and seeing that this is the only administrative branch of the Department which remains segregated from the Department's own offices in Merrion Street, whilst other administrative bodies more recently transferred have been accommodated in Merrion Street, whether he can say when practical effect will be given, with a view to the due supervision of that branch, to the provisions requiring the transfer to the Agricultural Department of the veterinary powers of the Castle authorities as contemplated by Act of Parliament.

There is no accommodation in Merrion Street for the Veterinary Branch of the Department. The provisions of the Acts of Parliament transferring the powers of the Veterinary Department of the Privy Council to the Agricultural Department have been duly carried out, and there is no difficulty of supervision such as suggested in the Question.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that, on the 13th July, a man named Samuel Ewarts, accompanied by his wife and four children, were driving home from Scarva when, coming to Lisnagade School, a number of persons stopped the car and used abusive language to the occupants; whether, in view of the fact that Ewarts was struck on the head several times and that one of his children was struck, he can say why District Inspector Bell, who witnessed the assault, made no arrests; and, as the offenders are known to the Crown, will he order a prosecution.

I am making further inquiry in this matter, and shall be glad for a postponement of the Question until Thursday next.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that the present derelict state of the Portumna Railway is owing to the loss of a security for £32,420, through the negligence of a Department of the Government, and that this loss has been the cause of the difficulties that have befallen the railway, including a loss to the Treasury of their loan on mortgage of £12,000 and interest; and, if so, whether the Government will take the necessary steps for renewing the permanent way, and get the line re-opened for traffic for the benefit of the district at an early date; or, failing the above, whether he will cause a full investigation into the circumstances referred to.

I am in communication with the Public Works Loan Commissioners in reference to this Question, which I will ask my hon. friend to postpone until Thursday next.

I beg to ask the Postmaster-General whether his attention has been drawn to the fact that 1,952 sacks of mails landed at Queenstown from New York, from the White Star liner "Teutonic," on Wednesday week were delivered in London unsorted, and to the fact that only eighteen men were despatched from Dublin to sort these sacks; whether he will explain why the officials in Dublin who were responsible for this duty did not take more adequate steps to meet the requirements of this heavy mail; whether it is usual to send men to perform this duty who are unacquainted with the work; whether he will say how often within the past twelve months the American mails from Queenstown have been delivered in London unsorted; and whether, in view of the inconvenience caused, he will take such steps as will prevent the American mails passing through Queenstown to London arriving in that city unsorted in future.

The hon. Member has, I think, been misinformed. The number of bags of unsorted letters from the "Teutonic" received in London on the 14th instant, was five, not 1,952; and the delivery of these letters was not delayed. The number of men sent to Queenstown was eighteen. An outgoing American mail was due to pass through Dublin the following morning and some of the regular staff were absent on annual or sick-leave. It was, therefore, not considered safe to reduce the force available at Dublin by sending a larger number to Queenstown.

I beg to ask the Postmaster-General if he can explain why Constable Woulfe, of the Dublin Metropolitan Police, was appointed to the telegraph office, Dublin Castle, over the heads of other members of the force who had obtained first and second-class certificates; and whether, in view of the police orders that no such appointment will be given to any person having only third-class certificate, he will inquire why Woulfe was selected for the position.

I am not in a position to answer the hon. Member's Question. The appointment to which he I refers is not a Post Office appointment.

I beg to ask the Postmaster-General whether he has been asked to receive a deputation, consisting of prominent members of the Gaelic League, which desires to submit the necessity for appointing postmasters in Ireland with a knowledge of the Irish language; whether he has returned and, if so, what answer to the request; and whether, in view of the fact that in the cases of vacancies in the Carmarthen and Criccieth post offices quite recently it was specified that a knowledge of Welsh was necessary, he will state why Irish is not accorded the same treatment in Ireland as Welsh is in Wales.

I have been asked to receive a deputation from the Gaelic League to deal with the subject mentioned by the hon. Member, and I have replied to the effect that I had already carefully considered the question which it was proposed to raise, and that in my judgment there would not be any advantage to be gained by receiving a deputation on the subject. As regards the use of the Welsh language in Wales, I would refer the hon. Member to my Answer to his Question of the 12th instant.†

But is the noble Lord aware that in many parts of Ireland delay is caused to correspondence by letters addressed in Irish having to be sent to Dublin to be deciphered?

I beg to ask the Postmaster-General if he will explain why the arears of salary from 1st May, 1902, which he has now directed to be paid in the case of the town sub-postmaster of Harcourt Road, Dublin, and which are alleged to have been withheld purely through inadvertence, were not allowed in May. 1903, when the Postmaster-General's attention was specifically directed in an official report to the fact that the payment was being designedly withheld; and if he will state who is responsible for the allegation that the withholding of the payment up to the present has been due purely to inadvertence.

I am making further inquiry into the subject of the hon. Member's Question, and I will communicate the result to him.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether, in view of the Treaties of 13th March. 1871, and 30th March. 1856, where by the Great Powers of Europe affirmed and engaged to respect the prohibition for ships of war of Foreign Powers to enter the Straits of the Dardanelles or the Bosphorus, and of the fact that in December, 1902, and January, 1903, four Russian torpedo boats, flying the

† See (4) Debates, cxxxvii., 1366.

Until the recent passage of the "Peterburg" and the "Smolensk" no action has been taken by His Majesty's Government since the presentation of the Note to which the hon. Member refers in his Question, and we have not heard of any infractions of the treaty.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether, having regard to the official statement on 21st October, 1902, that there were no negotiations going on upon the subject of the passage of the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles by ships of war, His Majesty's Government have since been made aware that in 1901 a convention on the subject was made between Turkey and Russia providing special conditions for the passage of special Russian ships; and, if so, have the terms or stipulations of that convention been communicated to His Majesty's Government; and will they lay the communication upon the Table.

We are not aware of any convention of the kind referred to by my hon. friend.

Will inquiries be made by the right hon. Gentleman?

I have asked the Foreign Office, and they are not aware of any such convention.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether he is aware that Article 1 of the Declaration of Paris, 1856, declares that privateering, la course, is, and remains, abolished, and Article 2 that the neutral flag covers enemy's merchandise, except contraband of war; whether Lord Clarendon, in agreeing, on 8th April, 1856, to the Declaration, declared, on behalf of Great Britain, that he only agreed to Article 2 provided that privateering were equally abolished for ever; and whether, on 14th April, 1856, Count Orloff, on behalf of Russia, while announcing that he had received power to Sign the Declaration, added, nevertheless, that his Court could not engage itself to maintain the principle of the abolition of privateering; whether the ships of the Russian Volunteer Fleet, being private ships commissioned by the State, differ in any material respect from privateers; and whether, in view of the reservations made by Russia as to Article 1 of the Declaration at the time of its signature, of her subsequent recent action in commissioning vessels of the Volunteer Fleet, and of the consequent violation of the express condition under which Lord Clarendon accepted Article 2 of the Declaration, His Majesty's Government will now consider the propriety of announcing that it will no longer feel itself hound by the Declaration of Paris, and will reserve its right to capture, in war, enemy's property carried at sea under a neutral flag.

I do not think the general statement of law contained in the first two paragraphs of the Question is seriously at variance, if at variance at all, with the treaties, though I must not be taken as giving an authoritative decision on that point. With regard to the third paragraph, and in part to the fourth paragraph, the whole question of the status of the Volunteer Fleet is under discussion between the Government of this country and the Government of Russia, and I think it would be undesirable for us to discuss it across the floor of the House by way of Question and Answer. If I understand my hon. friend's general principles aright, it is the last sentence of the Question to which he attaches the greatest importance. He has always strongly objected to the provisions of the Declaration of Paris which changed international practice, but I cannot hold out any hopes that we are going to make recent occurrences the occasion of any remonstrances to the other Powers upon that broader subject.

May I ask, in due course, whether we may expect some statement of the result of the negotiations going on with respect to the status of these vessels? I presume we shall have Papers laid on the Table.

I am very reluctant to lay Papers on the Table. Of course, if questions of practical importance leading to grave national issues were at stake, the House of Commons would rightly insist on being made fully acquainted with all that occurred; but I do not think it would be desirable that I should promise at this moment to lay Papers on this subject before the House.

I wish to ask the Prime Minister whether the Government has received any information of the sinking of the British ship the "Knight Commander," carrying American goods; and, if so, whether he has any statement to make on the subject.

We have received a rumour to the effect the right hon. Gentleman refers to, but we have at present no means of authenticating it. I need hardly say that we are making all the inquiries in our power; and until the result of these inquiries is known it would perhaps be inconvenient that I should say anything further.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether it will be possible to arrange a time for the discussion of the Report laid last Thursday of the Inter-Departmental Committee on Physical Deterioration. May I at the same time also ask the First Lord of the Treasury when it is proposed to take the Education Estimates.

I cannot enter into any engagement on the subject of these two Questions.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury when the Committee on the Scotch Education Bill will be resumed.

I cannot fix a day.

When will the right hon. Gentleman be able to say?

There are limits to the session, and I think, bearing those in mind, the hon. Member will be able to restrain his natural and justifiable impatience.

But is it the intention of the Government to proceed with the measure this session?

I hope it will piss this session.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether the Admiralty Vote will be put down for discussion before the close of the session, to enable public attention to be directed to the practice and the methods of flogging men and boys in the Royal Navy.

No, Sir; I cannot say when the Navy Estimates will be taken.

My Question is, will they come on before the close of the session?

I have said I cannot give the hon. Gentleman the information he desires.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether he will consider and propose such Amendments to the Rules of the House as will enable it to adjourn not later than eleven of the clock at night.

I should be very glad that our proceedings should end at eleven o'clock. My recent experience has shown me that even twelve o'clock is hardly the hour at which the. House always desires to, terminate its. proceedings. If the hon. Member will exercise his individual influence among, his friends, I hope we shall reach, if not the ideal which he contemplates, at all events something near it.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether he will give further consideration to the question of making such alterations in. the commencement and close of the sessions of Parliament as will avoid the necessity for sitting during the months of July and August.

I do not at all reject the idea that we might distribute the portion of the year given up to the Parliamentary session in a more convenient, and I would almost add a more rational, fashion. But there are two very great difficulties in the way. One is that the date at which our financial business for the year comes to an end is 31st March. If we have to begin Supply, as we do now, on 1st April, and have to conclude that and all other matters at the early date which the hon. Gentleman suggests, I think it would require a considerable re-arrangement of our business, and I am not sure that it would not involve altering the financial year. My right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer contemplates with legitimate dismay the prospect of having three Budgets in two years. There is another reason even more important. It is quite easy for the House to determine that it will meet in November. By what measure are you going to make it impossible that, having met in November, it will not go on till the present date in August? If you had a legal termination of the session, which is common to a very large number of foreign Legislatures, you would of course get over the difficulty. But imagine how great a change that would involve in the ordinary procedure of this House!

May I suggest to the right hon. Gentleman whether he thinks an inquiry into the whole subject by a Select Committee would he of any assistance to him.

I certainly would not think of refusing a Select 'Committee. But it would be an elaborate inquiry, and I do not think that I could take part in it. The labour thrown on those who have to administer public affairs is so great that to add to the necessary work done outside the House the necessity of attending and presiding at a long elaborate inquiry of this sort really makes the proposal almost impracticable; and whether the House would care for a Committee which did not have upon it the Leader of the House for the time being and the Leader of the Opposition, I think there may be some doubt.

May I ask which three days are to be devoted to Supply next week?

I propose to take Supply on two days next week. I am not yet in a position to indicate the Votes that will be set down for discussion, but my hon. friend the Member for the Wellington Division of Somerset will endeavour to ascertain, through the ordinary channels, what Votes it is most desired to discuss. It would not be fair that Tuesday should be an allotted day for Supply purposes, as part of the sitting will be taken up by the discussion on the Motion for the suspension of the Twelve o'Clock Rule.

May I point out that only two days have been given to the Irish Estimates? I hope another opportunity will be provided for the discussion of Irish affairs in Committee of Supply.

I quite recognise that some further time must be giver to Irish Estimates, and I will inquire what particular Estimates can be taken to suit the general convenience.

We on these Benches have already expressed a desire that the Vote for the Queen's Colleges be taken, as upon it the whole question of University education in Ireland can be discussed.

I hope that no promise will be made to the hon. Member for Waterford which will preclude a full discussion of the case of Constable Anderson.

If the right hon. Gentleman has to make up his mind between the relative merits of the case of Constable Anderson and University education in Ireland I hope he will take a serious view of the matter.

I feel at a loss between these opposing Irish claims, but I shall try, as I always try, to make the best arrangements as to the business of the House, irrespective of Party.

I shall put another Question on the Paper for Thursday.