To ask the Secretary of State for War what barracks and other buildings have been discontinued in consequence of the abandonment of the Army Corps scheme; and what money has been already expended upon such buildings. (Answered by Mr. Secretary Arnold Forster.) No barracks or other buildings have been discontinued. The construction of certain barracks at one time contemplated has not been proceeded with.

To ask the Secretary of State for War whether his attention has been called to the statement of the Comptroller and Auditor-General that on the sale of surplus jam after the South African War 1,350,816 tins, supposed to contain 1 lb., of jam, contained only 12 oz. each; what percentage of the quantity supplied is represented by the 1,350,816 tins; who were the contractors who supplied this, jam; what steps, if any, have been taken to obtain repayment of the amount overcharged; whether these contractors are still on the list of Government contractors; if so, why have they not been removed from the list. (Answered by Mr. Secretary Arnold-Forster.) The orders for the jam were placed through the Agents-General for the Colonies, and the names of the contractors are not known in this country. I am not yet in a position to give further information on the other points raised in the Question. This is one of the question which is still sub judice.

To ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether the guarantors of the first instalment of £10,000,000 of the £30,000,000 Transvaal Loan stipulated as a condition of their guarantee that any premiums which might be received on the issue of any part of the £30,000,000 should be paid into the Transvaal Treasury; and whether this condition was agreed to by Lord Milner. (Answered by Mr. Secretary Lyttelton.) It was stated by the guarantors in a letter to Lord Milner that this was so understood, and Lord Milner informed

^* We are informed that this Question and Answer were accidentally omitted from the Votes of March 16th.

them, in reply, that, although he was not in a position to commit His Majesty's Government, he believed it was never intended that His Majesty's Government should receive under the arrangement more than £30,000,000. I would refer the hon. Member to pages 2 and 4 of Cd. 1895.

To ask the Lord-Advocate if he will state the names of the schools on the mainland Ross-shire which have water laid on to the premises, and those which have not. (Answered by Mr. Scott Dickson.) I cannot at present give the hon. Member the information he desires, but as soon as it has been obtained I shall be ready to communicate it to him.

To ask the Lord-Advocate whether he will supplement the Return of Parochial Charities in Scotland, promised in his Answer to the Question on the subject of July 11th† last, by adding a Return of Burgh Charities. (Answered by Mr. Scott Dickson.) Before giving a final reply to the Question the Secretary for Scotland would desire to be further informed as to the extent and purport of the Return of Burgh Charities now desired. Perhaps the right hon. Member would confer with me on the subject.

To ask the Secretary to the Board of Trade whether he will cause inquiries to be made as to the operations of bond investment companies, and the necessity, if any, which exists for Government supervision of their transactions. (Answered by Mr. Bonar Law.) The Question asked by the hon. Member requires consideration, and I shall be glad if he will repeat his Question in a week's time.

† See (4) Debates, cxxxvii., 1187.

To ask the Secretary to the Board of Trade if the new Patent Rules for 1905 have been laid upon the Table, and if opportunity will be afforded of discussing them before the expiration of the statutory period, and when this date will be reached. (Answered by Mr. Bonar Law.) The Rules were laid upon the Table of the House on February 15th, and the period of forty days within which the House may resolve that the Rules or any of them ought to be annulled expires today.

To ask the Secretary to the Board of Trade whether there is telegraphic communication of any kind between the Wolf or Longships lighthouses and the shore; and, if not, whether it can be established at an early date in view of the recent loss of life in the wreck of the ship "Khyber." (Answered by Mr. Bonar Law.) No, Sir, there is no telegraphic communication between these two lighthouses and the shore; but both stations are

To ask the Secretary to the Board of Trade what were the duties on imported wheat per imperial quarter in the United Kingdom, France, Germany, and Italy, respectively, during the year 1904; what were the average prices of wheat per imperial quarter in each of those countries during that year; and what were the estimated percentages of imported wheat in the total wheat supply of each of those countries during the same period.

To ask the Secretary to the Board of Education what was the total amount of voluntary subscriptions to non-provided schools in England and Wales during the educational year 1903–4; and what was the estimated total cost of the maintenance of those schools during that year, distinguishing the amount received from Government grants and from local taxation respectively. (Answered by Sir William Anson.) The period as to which the hon. Member desires information was a transitional one, and, since the Act came into force at a different date in different areas, the Board have found it impossible to attempt to collect any complete or satisfactory information on the points raised in the Question. I am sorry, therefore, that I cannot give the hon. Member the figures he asks for.

To ask the Postmaster-General whether he is aware that the three female telegraphists stationed at Bath, whom he has decided to transfer to other towns, entered the Bath Post Office as a result of open competitions for vacancies in that town only; and, if so, will he say whether compulsory transfer to other towns will be consistent with the conditions laid down by the Civil Service Commissioners; and whether he will reconsider his decision. (Answered by Lord Stanley.) The transfer of these three telegraphists to another town is not inconsistent with the Civil Service Commissioners' announcement which states the conditions of their service as learners. I recognise the desirability of avoiding as far as possible the compulsory transfer of female telegraphists; but in the present case, owing to the conditions at Bath, it has been found necessary to diminish the staff of women employed there, and the transfer of some of their number is unavoidable.

To ask the Postmaster-General whether he is aware that the indoor working staff at Armagh consists of seven qualified male officers and seven females and learners, and that the women and learners are exempt from money-order work, night duty, and the handling of the principal mail despatches; and, if so, whether, in view of the fact that the male staff has been further reduced temporarily by two officers withdrawn for work elsewhere, he will take steps to relieve the strain in consequence placed upon the remainder of the staff. (Answered by Lord Stanley.) The indoor male staff actually employed at the Armagh Post Office has been reduced temporarily by one officer, who is in charge of a sub-post office, and not by two as the hon. Member appears to think, the second officer detatched for duty elsewhere being a female. I am satisfied that the male staff is not subjected to any undue strain in consequence of this temporary reduction.

To ask the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the agreement which was under negotiation in regard to jurisdiction and postal service in Zanzibar, referred to in Clause 2 of the Declaration made on April 8th, 1904, between the United Kingdom and France, and in consequence of which the Government withdrew their protest against the Customs tariff established at Madagascar after the annexation of that island by France, has been completed; and, if so, what is the effect of such agreement. (Answered by Earl Percy.) The agreement was concluded on 13th May last. In accordance with its provisions, the French post office at Zanzibar was closed on July 31st last, and the French Consular Court on 15th September.

To ask the President of the Local Government Board whether he will grant a Return showing the amounts of the moneys which have been expended by the several metropolitan borough councils to provide relief for the unemployed during the winter 1904–5. (Answered by Mr. Gerald Balfour.) I shall be happy to give a Return on the subject, and I will communicate with my hon. friend as to the form of the Motion for the Return.

To ask the President of the Local Government Board whether he is willing to direct or recommend the overseers collecting the poor rate to receive part payment thereof in cases where the ratepayer refuses or omits to pay the whole rate. (Answered by Mr. Gerald Balfour.) It rests with the overseers to decide whether they will or will not receive part payment of a poor rate in any particular case in which the ratepayer refuses or omits to pay the whole rate, and I am not prepared to interfere with their discretion in the matter.

To ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer what is the total of Exchequer and Treasury Bills outstanding at the present time; and also the total of the same class or classes of Bills outstanding on same date in March of each of the last three years. (Answered by Mr. Austen Chamberlain.) Statements relating to the Unfunded Debt which are issued at different dates cause great inconvenience and are apt to mislead; perhaps the hon. Member will kindly await the delivery of the Budget Statement. If the details I then give respecting the National Debt are insufficient I shall be happy to supplement them.

To ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is aware that the School of Brewing in connection with the University of Birmingham has not fulfilled the expectations of its founders; that to provide against the closing of the school a professional laboratory, in competition with private analysts, is to be established for the purpose of analysing brewers' samples; that it is proposed to advertise the existence of the laboratory to the brewing trade generally; and that the local brewers, in consideration of having guaranteed a sum towards the maintenance of the school, are to have their analytical work done at the school laboratory free of cost to the extent of their respective guarantees; and whether he will take steps to prevent an institution supported partly out of public funds being thus used in competition with private professional analysts. (Answered by Mr. Austen Chamberlain.) I am informed that the School of Brewing has completely fulfilled the expectations of its founders and is now in a most flourishing condition; the buildings, equipment, and annual working cost have all been provided by the Birmingham and Midland Counties Wholesale Brewers Association, so that no part of the funds of the University or the Government grant have been used in founding or carrying on the school. The scientific work done in the school is the subject of a complimentary reference from the gentlemen who carried out the last quinquennial inspection on behalf of the Treabury in 1901. I understand that it is now proposed to make additions to the school as a result of a visit made by a deputation from the Board of Management to the schools of Ghent, Berlin, Vienna, Munich, and Paris. I see no reason for any Treasury interference.

To ask the Secretary of State for India whether he can state the price paid for rifles bought by the Indian Government this financial year, and the number of rifles thus purchased from the Home Government. (Answered by Mr. Secretary Brodrick.) The price paid for magazine Lee-Enfield rifles in 1904–5 is £4 9s. 6d. per arm, including cost of inspection and other departmental expenses. This rate is, however, subject to adjustment when the actual cost of manufacture in the Royal Ordnance Factories has been ascertained. The number of rifles purchased was 92,574.

To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland at what age and on what date, Head Constable Samuel Bratton, of Athy, county Kildare, first became a member of the Royal Irish Constabulary. (Answered by Mr. Walter Long.) At the age of 21 years, and on September 6th, 1876.

To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if he can state how many years the O'Donel Estate at Newport, country Mayo, has been in Chancery; how many applications for purchase have been made by the Congested Districts Board and the Estates Commissioners; who are the trustees of estate; and what is the cause of the delay in the sale of the estate to the Congested Districts Board or the Estates Commissioners. (Answered by Mr. Walter Long.) The petition for sale of this estate was filed in 1893. The Commissioners have made no offer to purchase, but the Congested Districts board have been in communication with the Land Judge in respect to the issue of a request under Section 77 of the Act of 1903. The matter will come before the Land Judge for consideration early next sittings.

To ask Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he can state the names and previous occupations of the Local Government Board auditors for Ireland. (Answered by Mr. Walter Long.) This information will be found in a Return presented to Parliament in 1902 (Parliamentary Paper No. 146 of that session), supplemented by a similar Return which is now about to be laid upon the Table.

To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland under what circumstances, and for what special reason, was the senior and higher qualified assistant in national school, Roll No. 15,008, dismissed on the reduction of the average school attendance; has this teacher capably discharged her duty during her service of twenty-two years; and has anything been alleged by the inspectors of the Board of Education against her competency and qualifications, and is she now eligible for reinstatement in her former position, or, failing that, for a suitable pension. (Answered by Mr. Waller Long.) The Commissioners were obliged, under the rules, to withdraw salary from one of the two assistant teachers in this school in consequence of the insufficiency of the average attendance of pupils. The services of the assistant referred to in the Question were discontinued because the manager, in the exercise of his powers, elected to retain the other assistant. The service of the discharged assistant has been satisfactory, but it is stated that she suffers from a physical defect which militates against her usefulness. If, however, she should be selected as assistant by any school manager her case will be specially considered by the Commissioners. She is not eligible for a pension.

To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether his attention has been called to the conduct of two constables of the Royal Irish Constabulary, Gumbleton and Roche, on the evening of January 28th, on the public road outside Belmullet, when they assaulted John Munnelly, and compelled him to walk up and down the public road for fifty yards to enable them to judge whether he was under the influence of drink; and when Munnelly escaped from the police pursued him and subsequently took him to the police barracks at Belmullet; whether, seeing that the charge made against Munnelly at the Belmullet Petty Sessions of having been under the influence of drink on the occasion in question was dismissed, he will order an inquiry into the whole matter; and will he consider the advisability of having these constables removed to another station. (Answered by Mr. Walter Long.) Mr. Munnelly was arrested by the constables named for drunkenness while in charge of a horse, and he was also charged with assaulting Constable Gumbleton when being arrested. A counter charge of assault was brought by Mr. Munnelly against Constable Gumbleton. The magistrates dismissed the complaints on both sides, but expressed the opinion that Mr. Munnelly, though not drunk, was under the influence of drink when arrested. The question of holding a disciplinary inquiry into the matter will not be decided pending the result of a civil action which, it is stated, Mr. Munnelly is about to institute.

To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if he can state what were the certificates of qualification held by the present headmaster of technical instruction of Armagh previous to his appointment; and why is registration as a teacher under the Act of 1902 not considered necessary. (Answered by Mr. Walter Long.) The headmaster held the following certificates. From the City and Guilds of London Institute: Fall technological certificate in masonry, honours certificates in brickwork and plumbing, and first prize for practical leadwork. From the Board of Education, London: Advanced certificates in practical, plane, and solid geometry, building construction, and mathematics, and pass certificates in other subjects, including carpentry and joinery, practical mathematics, and applied mechanics. He also took first place at an examination for the post of assistant county surveyor in Ireland. I am not aware of any Act of 1902 applying to Ireland which bears on the subject.

To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether, since the Agricultural Department state that the Catholic clerk transferred from the veterinary to the fisheries branch did not suffer diminution of income, he will explain why this gentleman is now restricted to a class salary of £95, whereas he formerly received approximately £15 extra for acting as clerk in waiting. (Answered by Mr. Walter Long.) Overtime earnings are not recognised as a regular part of official income, and no individual clerk has any vested right to be employed on overtime duty.

To ask the Secretary of State for War why the modern 15-pounder field guns officially promised to the 4th West York Volunteer Artillery in 1901, in replacement of their museum guns, have not been delivered. (Answered by Mr. Secretary Arnold-Forster.) It is regretted that no modern 15-pounder field guns are at present available for issue to the 4th West York Volunteer Artillery.

To ask the Secretary of State for War whether mobilisation manuals, such as are in use in India, have yet been prepared for the Remount Department at Home. (Answered by Mr. Secretary Arnold-Forster.) A remount manual has been prepared for use on mobilisation, containing instructions for officers employed on remount duties at home and abroad. A mobilisation scheme for the provision of horses for Home defence has also been prepared in each of the Home commands, which is kept up to date by the local staff.

To ask the Secretary of State for War whether there is any difficulty in the way of the immediate issue of a medal or a ribbon to the officers and men who were engaged in the recent Somaliland expeditions; and how soon such issue will be made. (Answered by Mr. Secretary Arnold-Forster.) Issue has been made already of all medals and clasps due on those medal rolls which have been forwarded to the War Office.

To ask the Secretary of State for War what further sums of money it is likely will be spent in connection with the barracks on Salisbury Plain. (Answered by Mr. Secretary Arnold-Forster.) It is estimated that a further sum of £737,000 will be spent on barracks on Salisbury Plain, partly on new works and partly on continuation services.

To ask the Secretary of State for the Colonies (1) whether he has received any recommendations or suggestions from the Government of the Transvaal Colony that the cost of the constabulary force should and may with safety be reduced; (2) and whether he will consider the advisability of charging the cost of preserving order between Kaffirs and Chinese on the Rand to the companies owning the mines. (Answered by Mr. Secretary Lyttelton.) (1) I have not recently received any recommendation as to the reduction of the South African Constabulary, the estimated cost of which for the current year is £1,110,300 as compared with a sum of £1,520,000 voted for the previous year. (2) The duty of preserving order within the compounds falls upon the mining companies, who employ their own Chinese police, for whom they pay. The ordinary town police force, or South African Constabulary, would only be called in under exceptional circumstances.

I beg to ask the Civil Lord of the Admiralty why it is that His Majesty's naval officers are to be compulsorily retired on attaining the age of sixty, while officers in the Army are not compulsorily retired until the age of sixty-five.

The age for compulsory retirement in the Navy is not a general one, as the hon. Member seems to think. It varies according to the rank of the officers. For instance, admirals and vice-admirals are compulsorily retired at sixty-five, rear admirals at sixty, and captains at fifty-five. No change in these regulations is proposed.

Why are officers in the Navy retired at an earlier age than those in the Army?

They are not.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he is now in receipt from the Colonial Governments of the names of the contractors who supplied 1,350,816 tins of jam for South Africa, each tin containing, as described in the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor-General, 12 ounces of jam instead of 1 lb.; and whether he can say how it was that shortage on so large a scale passed unnoticed when the goods first passed into the hands of the War Office authorities in South Africa.

The War Department is now in possession of the names of the contractors who supplied jam to South Africa from Australia and Tasmania. But as the Question put might convey some reflection on the firms concerned, I should like to take this opportunity of making a statement on the facts of the case. None of the jam so supplied was in tins containing only twelve ounces. Part of the supply was in tins containing sixteen ounces, but the bulk was in nominals containing either fourteen ounces or twenty-eight ounces (one pound and two pound nominals). These nominals were either ordered as such or were in execution of orders for net weights. In the latter case an extra number of nominals was supplied equivalent to the deficiency. In all cases the country received the full quantity of jam paid for. When, however, the sale to which the Comptroller and Auditor-General refers took place in South Africa, the jam was sold by net weight and not by tins. Any apparent shortage is attributed to the fact that in the first place certain shrinkages had occurred through the heat and exposure to which the goods were, of necessity, subjected, and that, in the second place, the local military authorities had, under a misapprehension, treated the tins as containing full pounds of jam.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether his attention has been called to the ill-treatment of the aborigines of Western Australia, as disclosed in the Report of the Royal Commission; and whether he proposes to take any steps to remedy this state of things.

I have just received the Report referred to, which is dated December 29th last. As I stated in reply to a Question by the hon. Member for East Cork on March 1st†, I understand that legislation will shortly be introduced in Western Australia dealing with the abuses disclosed in the Report. I have asked the Governor to

† See (4) Debates, cxlii., 10

inform me as soon as possible what action his Ministers propose to take in the matter.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether his attention has been drawn to the questions recently addressed by the Board of Revenue in the Madras Presidency to the collectors in reference to the desirability of a reduction in the number of liquor shops in the towns and districts; whether he is aware that the collectors in most cases recommended reductions; whether the Board of Revenue declined to approve of these recommendations; and, if so, whether he will state the grounds upon which this decision was arrived at.

I have not seen the reference nor the replies made by collectors. In reviewing the Excise Report for 1903–4 the Madras Board of Revenue deal with the subject, and explain that no great reductions in the number of shops were in their opinion possible, as the number had already been fixed with care and was not excessive.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India whether he will give the latest figures as to the number of deaths from plague and smallpox in India; whether he will state the number of deaths from plague since January 1st, 1905; and whether he is in a position to make a statement as to what special steps the Government of India are taking to reduce the rate of mortality and to prevent the spread of the disease.

I am unable to give figures regarding deaths from smallpox, as they are not specially returned to me. For plague the latest received figures are for the month of February, namely, 126,041 deaths. The total number of deaths from plague since January 1st up to the end of February is 252,567. I have been in communication with the Viceroy as to whether more can be done to remedy the present deplorable loss of life. It has been decided to send out a scientific expedition to make a thorough investigation into the origin and causes of plague. The Royal Society and the Lister Institute have undertaken the direction of the inquiry, and arrangements for starting it at once have been made.

asked whether plague had not something to do with want of food owing to the enormous taxation placed upon the Indian people.

We have no evidence to that effect. It is almost impossible to trace any special cause for the increase in the number of deaths, but there is one satisfactory feature, which is that the number of infected areas has not increased.

Will the right hon. Gentleman try the effect of abolishing the salt tax?

The present Indian Budget has made a considerable reduction in the salt duty.

I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he has any information to the effect that the Italian Government has announced that it will refuse permission to any Italian officer to take service under the Government of the Congo Free State; and, if so, if he can state what are the reasons given by the Italian Government for this action.

No such information has been received by His Majesty's Government.

On behalf of the hon. Member for West Donegal, I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he has any official information to the effect that a band of thirty-one komitajis, under their leader Apostol, was recently exterminated in the Salonica district, and that the Austrian officer who visited the scene has reported that all the corpses were mutilated.

It appears that an encounter at the village of Smol between the Turkish troops and a band of about forty komitajis resulted in nine casualties to the former, and the extermination of the band, with the exception of the leader Apostol and four others who escaped. A Russian gendarmerie officer was a witness of the engagement, and His Majesty's Consul reports, as a satisfactory feature, the fact that discipline was enforced among the troops and that no damage was inflicted upon either the village or its inhabitants.

Were the bodies mutilated?

I am not aware.

On behalf of the hon. Member for West Donegal, I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether any punitive action is to be taken as a result of the report of the Russian gendarmerie officer on the outrages committed by the Turkish troops at Kuklish on 16th February.

His Majesty's Ambassador at Constantinople has made earnest representations to the Grand Vizier with a view to the punishment of any persons who may have been responsible for excesses, and a Commission has been appointed to institute a full inquiry, at which the Russian gendarmerie officer will be present.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury if it is a statutory requirement, in the case of grants in aid of University colleges in England, that four times the amount is required from local subscriptions before anything is derived from the public funds; and, if so, what is the statute in which it is to be found.

My right ton. friend has asked me to reply to this Question. There are no such statutory requirements.

Are there any requirements, statutory or otherwise?

There has been such a requirement in regard to the grant in past times. But proposals in regard to the future allocation of the grant have been made by the Committee presided over by Mr. Horsley, and they are now under the consideration of the Government.

Do I understand that it is proposed that there should be a grant of £100,000 a year to the University colleges mentioned in the Report; and is there any requirement, statutory or otherwise, in regard to this grant.

There is a proposal by the Committee that the distribution should be governed by the amount of voluntary subscriptions obtained by these colleges. The Government have not yet come to a decision on the subject.

Will these amounts appear on the Estimates?

They are in the Votes already.

£100,000?

Yes, £100,000 to English colleges; and it is less per head of the population than is devoted to any other division of the United Kingdom.

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether his attention has been called to the case of John Lee, who was convicted in February, 1885, for the Babbicombe murder and sentenced to death, which sentence was afterwards commuted to one of penal servitude for life; and whether having regard to the fact that Lee has now served a period of twenty years imprisonment, he can see his way to advise that the clemency of the Crown be exercised in favour of this man's release.

I have fully considered the facts of this case, but I regret that, having regard to the character of Lee's crime, and to the circumstances under which the capital sentence was respited, I cannot advise any exercise of the Royal prerogative in the convict's favour. I may say that, while persons under original sentence of penal servitude for life are as a general rule released on licence when they have served twenty years, this practice does not necessarily apply to cases where a death sentence for murder has been commuted to penal servitude for life; but each such case is considered independently on its merits.

Are there any periodical seasons for the revision and reconsideration of these cases?

Cases are brought up from time to time. This case was brought up. It was dealt with by Sir W. Harcourt, who regarded it as a very bad case indeed, and every one of my predecessors have concurred in the opinion of the original Secretary of State.

Has there been any complaint against the character of Lee during the time he has been in gaol?

I do not know of anything in that alone to justify the decision, but we have had to consider the original circumstances, and the fact that this man has threatened the lives of persons now living.

I beg to ask the Postmaster-General whether he is aware that women telegraphists and women telephonists at Brighton have been informed that they are to be compelled to perform Sunday duty, and that the persons affected have protested against this action on the part of the authorities; whether the Department will economise by employing women in the place of men; and whether, in view of the objection taken by the women to the imposition of Sunday duties, he will reconsider his decision.

I am aware of the circumstances to which the hon. Member refers. After fully considering the protest I decided that the arrangement, which is an economical one, should be adopted, and I see no reason for altering my decision, especially as the duty will fall to by far the larger number of the officers concerned on only about three Sundays in the year.

I beg to ask the Postmaster-General whether his attention has been called to the fact that a registered newspaper may be sent through the post for one halfpenny, irrespective of its weight, and that in some cases registered newspapers weighing over two pounds are sent at that rate, while the postage on a periodical of the same weight which does not come within the definition of registered newspaper would be 5d.; and whether he proposes to take any steps to remedy this anomaly.

The anomaly of which the hon. Member speaks has not been allowed to escape my attention or that of my predecessors. Unfortunately the Post Office Act of 1870, which laid down the privileged postage rate of one halfpenny for registered newspapers, did not fix any limit of weight, and advantage is taken of this omission by certain publications. The remedy would be to impose a limit; but that cannot be done without legislation. I should be glad to introduce a Bill giving power to fix such a limit if I had reason to think it would be treated as non-contentious.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Board of Education whether the evidence on medical inspection of schools and feeding starving school children taken by the Royal Commission on Physical Training in Scotland, and by the Departmental Committee on Physical Deterioration, will be laid before the new Committee of the Board of Education; whether fresh evidence will be taken by them, and of what nature; whether the further consideration of the Report of the Committee on Physical Deterioration will be suspended until the new Committee reports; and whether their Report will be made before the end of the session.

The evidence taken before the Royal Commission on Physical Training and the Departmental Committee on Physical Deterioration will be before the new Committee referred to. The terms of reference sufficiently indicate the character of the fresh evidence which that Committee is intended to take; and the consideration of the Report of the Committee on Physical Deterioration will only be suspended in respect of the matters included under that reference. I cannot say whether a Report will be made before, the end of the session.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Board of Education whether the Board of Education will address a circular to local education authorities advising them to instruct the managers and teachers of public elementary schools to refer the case of children attending their schools hungry and destitute, and unable from affliction to profit by the instruction provided, to the proper Poor Law authorities for relief.

Such a circular as is proposed could not properly be issued by the Board of Education without the concurrence of the Local Government Board. I will consider the matter.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Lambeth Board of Guardians have desired public elementary school teachers to adopt this course?

No, Sir, but I will inquire.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Board of Education whether he will obtain, if possible, through the Foreign Office, and lay, a Report showing the methods adopted in the great Continental cities for dealing with hungry and ill-clad children, and the extent to which, if any, public moneys are spent upon the feeding and clothing needs of such children.

My noble friend the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs has promised to obtain what information he can for me on the points raised in the Question. I will consider whether the Board can supplement this information in any way, and also in what form the Report, when received, can best be issued.

I beg to ask the President of the Local Government Board whether he will address a circular to the local Poor Law authorities pointing out the duties of relieving officers in reference to giving medical and other relief to destitute children irrespective of the conduct and character of their parents; and whether the Local Government Board will suggest that, in case of relief in kind given to destitute children, part of such relief should be in the form of milk.

My reply to the Question of my right hon. friend must be to the same effect as that which I gave on the 20th instant † to a somewhat similar Question put to me by the hon. Member for the Ilkeston Division. I am not aware of any reason for supposing that boards of guardians and their officers are not alive to the powers and duties which attach to them in relation to destitute children, where application is made to them for relief. With regard

† See page 427.

to the latter part of the Question, I think that boards of guardians may be trusted to use their discretion as to the giving of milk as outdoor relief to destitute children. The Local Government Board called the attention of their inspectors to the subject last year. It does not appear to me to be necessary to issue a circular as suggested.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Lambeth Board of Guardians sent an officer, at my request, to inquire into the case of certain destitute children, and that he did not relieve them at all?

I am not sufficiently acquainted with the circumstances.

Will the right hon. Gentleman inquire?

I shall be pleased to do so.

Did the officer not find that there was no need for relief?

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Local Government Board if he is aware that in certain districts the local by-laws are framed so that not only is the building of new cottages arrested, but families are forced to reside in unhealthy dwellings; and, if so, will he state what action he will take in the matter.

I am aware that complaints have been made in connection with this matter; and it is at present engaging my attention.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in certain suburban districts the rules are much more stringent than in the County of London?

I cannot say.

I beg to ask the Lord-Advocate, having regard to the fact that no medical inspector from the Local Government Board for Scotland has visited the Island of Lewis, and that, although the island contains a population of nearly 30,000, it has only been visited four times during the last five years by the medical officer of health for Ross and Cromarty, will he state the names of the districts visited by this officer.

The medical officer reports that he visited, in 1901, Barvas, Uig, Carloway, Garrynahine, Stornoway; in 1902, Lochs, Keose, Uig, Garrynahine; in 1903, Barvas, Carloway, Garrynahine; in 1904, Barvas,

I beg to ask the Lord-Advocate, in view of the fact that twenty-five Norwegian trawlers and other trawlers of different nationalities habitually engage in trawling in the Moray Firth, will arrangements be made for a Fishery Board cruiser to more frequently patrol the Moray Firth with a view to prevent the destruction of the gear of local fishermen, and the prevention of trawling within the three-mile limit.

The Fishery Board have no recent complaints of destruction of gear or undetected infraction of the three-mile limit. At the present time two cruisers continuously

I beg to ask the Lord-Advocate if he will state whether there have been any outbreaks of fever or other contagious diseases on the western mainland of Ross-shire during last year such as to necessitate the closing of public schools; if so, will he state the names of the schools closed and the periods for which they were respectively closed.

The following schools on the western mainland of Rossshire were closed during the year 1904 by order of the sanitary authority, acting on the advice of the medical officer of health:—

I beg to ask the Lord-Advocate if he will afford to parents in the congested districts information, by lectures or other methods, relating to training of boys for the mercantile marine.

The Congested Districts Board are affording information on the subject referred to by every means in their power. If the hon. Member can suggest any particular method by which the end in view may be attained in his constituency, the Secretary for Scotland will be pleased to favourably consider it.

I beg to ask Mr. Attorney-General for Ireland is he aware that, at the present Cork Spring Assizes, in connection with the trial of John Murphy on the charge of the murder of Kate M'Carthy, thirty-seven jurors were ordered to stand aside; can he say how many of these challenged jurors were Catholics; and was this course adopted with the sanction of the Irish Law Officers.

The Crown, solicitor reports that the number of jurors ordered to stand aside was thirty-four, not thirty-seven; that he did not know and did not make any inquiry as to the religion of the jurors set aside, nor was he in any way influenced by any consideration of the kind; that he acted in pursuance of the provisions of the Circular to Crown Solicitors dated the 12th February, 1894; and that, so far as he has been able to ascertain since the trial concluded and is able to form an opinion, ten of the twelve jurors who tried the case are Catholics. The reply to the last query is in the affirmative.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that thirty-four of the jurors were Catholics? Is it intended to continue a system so offensive?

I am not aware of it, and I do not believe it.

I see the Solicitor-General for Ireland has returned from his jury-packing campaign in Cork. Has he nothing to say on this serious matter?

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland is he aware that for some time past the estate of the late Thomas Dowling, in the parish of Cappawhite, and county Tipperary, which has been in the management of the Land Judge's Court for several years past, has recently been up for sale to the tenants; that a tenant on the estate named Daniel Moran, who holds a house and one rood of land in the village of Cappawhite and a farm of ten acres at some distance, signed purchase agreements at twenty years purchase on rental of house at £1 18s. that is £38 capital, and at twenty-one years purchase on rental of farm £9 annual, that is £189 capital sum, all arrears included; that afterwards the receiver processed Moran for a year's rent which should be paid; and that the Commissioner from the Land Commission Court, who came to inspect the holdings, approved of sale; and, if so, whether, seeing that on the 6th instant the solicitor having carriage of sale wrote saying Moran could not get the village holding, lie will state the names of the receiver, the solicitor having carriage of sale, and the incumbrancer, and take steps so that the incumbrancer will not obtain the holdings in preference to the tenants in occupation.

Mr. Moran signed agreements to purchase his agricultural and village holdings, respectively. The Land Judge accepted the proposal as to the agricultural holding, but refused the proposal as to the village holding. The agricultural holding cannot be vested in the purchaser until he furnishes the Land Commission with the necessary evidence of occupancy. The Land Judge is not prepared to supply the names of persons who are simply doing their duty as officers of the Court, or of the incumbrancers who are exercising their legal rights.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that Mr. Thomas Keary, D. C., Kililand Mills, Kiltulla, county Galway, has purchased his farm, which contains forty acres, under the Act of 1903; and whether there is any objection to his getting a licence for a gun to protect his crops from damage, particularly during the seed time which is now at hand.

Mr. Keary has not applied to the licensing officer for a gun licence. The question of issuing such a licence is one for determination by that officer, and I am unable to reply to the second inquiry.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether, in the negotiations with Mr. E. C. Walsh for the purchase of Inniskea Island, the Congested Districts Board made any inquiry as to the willingness of that gentleman to sell to the Board the main-land portion of his property.

Yes, Sir. The Board were informed by Mr. Walsh that he did not propose to sell the mainland portion of the property.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he can state the population of the Island of Inniskoa, the number of holdings, the valuation, the number of acres of untenanted land (if any), the amount of the rental upon which the purchase price of the island was based, and the purchase price.

The population is 289, the number of holdings 55, the valuation £86 5s., the number of acres of untenanted land 69; the rental upon which the purchase price was based £104 5s.; and the purchase price £1,000.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if he can say whether any negotiations have taken place, or whether negotiations are pending, between the Congested Districts Board or the Estates Commissioners and the owners of the O'Donnell and Coyne Estates, in Erris, county Mayo, with a view to sale and purchase.

The Congested Districts Board made an offer in the Land Judge's Court for the purchase of the O'Donnell Estate, but the offer was not accepted. With this exception the Answer to the Question is in the negative.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether his attention has been called to the recent prosecution of an evicted tenant on the Fuge Estate, near Buttevant, named Thomas O'Grady, on a charge of alleged intimidation at Mallow Fair; and, seeing that the magistrate's decision was quashed by the superior Court in Dublin, will he explain why this man's business papers and notebook are still detained by the police, who took them from him at Mallow, and what compensation will be made to him for the detention of his business documents.

The police have not detained any papers or books belonging to O'Grady, and did not take possession of any such articles.

If my information should prove correct, will the right hon. Gentleman give instructions that the documents be returned?

I am informed that the police have not detained them.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if he can state the dates on which the Irwin, Balf, and Goff Estates, in the county of Roscommon, on each of which there is a quantity of untenanted land, were offered to the Estates Commissioners; whether an offer has been made for them, or any of them; and, if not, will he explain the cause of the delay in acquiring these properties.

In the Irwin Estate an originating request was lodged on October 17th last, but the inspector's report has not yet been received. In the Balf Estate a request, under Section 7, was issued to the Land Judge on January 27th, 1904, and the inspector's report is now under consideration. In the Goff Estate an originating application was received on May 19th last, and it will be shortly dealt with by the Commissioners.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that the estate of Mr. Young, near Castlerea, in the county Roscommon, upon which there is a quantity of untenanted land, was offered by the owner for sale to the Estates Commissioners in May, 1904, and was inspected by an official of the Commissioners in June; and, if so, will he say whether any offer to purchase has yet been made; and, if not, will he state the cause of the delay, in view of the necessity of acquiring untenanted land in that district.

A further inspection of this estate became necessary, and is now being made. The Commissioners will consider the inspector's report, when received, with a view to making an offer to purchase.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether the Lismore Board of Guardians have by resolution requested the Local Government Board for Ireland, in view of the efforts now being made for the promotion of Irish industries and manufactures, to authorise them to entertain only tenders received from bonâ fide Irish manufacturing firms for medicines and medical and surgical appliances; and, if so, whether the Local Government Board will give the Lismore Guardians and any other public bodies desiring to follow the same principle this discretion in the case of all articles manufactured in Ireland by a number of firms sufficient to ensure adequate competition; and whether he will make inquiries of the President of the Local Government Board for England to ascertain whether this principle is adopted by a considerable number of boards of guardians in England.

The duty of the board of guardians in the exercise of their public trust is to have due regard to economy and to obtain the best return possible for the money of the ratepayers whom they represent. The Local Government Board have no power to enlarge or curtail the responsibility of the guardians in this respect. The English Local Government Board have no knowledge that the method suggested in the Question is adopted in this country.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether a portion of the Ballydonlon Estate, county Galway, purchased by the Estates Commissioners, is to be given to a Mr. Rothwell, petty sessions clerk of Ballinasloe, who was never a tenant on the estate and who does not live within miles of it, seeing that Mr. Rothwell is already in possession of more than one farm elsewhere.

The Estates Commissioners are unable to identify this estate. If the hon. Member will furnish me with the name of the landlord I will have inquiries made.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that at the Donegal Assizes held recently not a single Catholic was on the Grand Jury; and whether, having regard to the proportion of the population of the county that is Catholic and to the number of Catholics in the county well qualified to act as grand jurors, he will in future take steps to secure that Catholics shall be represented on the Grand Jury.

I have no means of ascertaining the religion of the Grand Jury. The summoning of the Grand Jury is the act of the High Sheriff under the restrictions contained in the Grand Jury Act. There is no allegation that the provisions of that statute have not been observed. The Executive, therefore, have no right to interfere.

Why not abolish this thing altogether?

How was it that the right hon. Gentleman's predecessor was enabled to ascertain the religion of the Grand Jurors in county Down?

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether the deadlock in the administration of the agricultural schemes in Donegal owing to the Department's rule excluding the people of a county from appointments as instructors in their own county still continues; and, if so, whether he, as President of the Department, will advise the withdrawal of this rule.

The Donegal County Committee have put the live stock schemes and the flax scheme into operation. They have also allocated funds for schemes of instruction in butter-making, poultry-keeping, and horticulture, but have not, so far as the Department are aware, yet taken steps to secure the services of suitable instructors in connection with these schemes, although many qualified Irish candidates are available. I am not prepared to advise the withdrawal of the rule referred to. In reply to a further Question,

said he had no reason to believe there was any general dissatisfaction with the operation of the rule. The whole matter had been the subject of careful inquiry.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to, the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether, in view of the fact that only 500 teachers of national schools in Ireland have passed through a full course of elementary science instruction, that less than 5,000 teachers have been trained by the organisers on the science course for the junior standards, and that more than 8,000 teachers have got no training whatsoever, will the Government explain why six of the science organisers have got notice that their services will not be required after March 31st instant.

I have already, in reply to the hon. Member's Question of the 20th instant,† stated the reasons for terminating the employment of these organisers.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland if he has seen the last reports of the Head Organiser of Science Instruction arid of the inspectors; and if the opinions of those experts, as to whether or not the services of the science organisers at present employed should be retained, will receive consideration.

I have not seen the reports referred to, which will be published with the Board's next Annual Report. The Board, I have no doubt, give due consideration to the opinions of their officers.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether any arrangement has been made for the training of those teachers, over 8,000 in number, in elementary science who have not yet had any opportunity of attending the organisers' classes.

I replied to a Question to the same effect, put by the hon. Member for Mid Cork, on the 24th inst.‡

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether his attention has been called to the delay that has taken place in the sale and purchase of the Goff Estate, in the county of Roscommon; whether he is aware that an originating statement with duly signed agreements to purchase was lodged in this case so far back as the 31st May last and inspection made so far back as July; and

† See page 461.

‡ See page 1081.

that last autumn the Estates Commissioners were informed that a grass farm on the estate had been surrendered, and that it had been agreed to sell it for the purpose of division amongst the adjoining small holders, and that an inspection of this holding was delayed till about five weeks ago, since which nothing has been done, though repeated applications to close the sale of the estate, to which no answer of any kind has been given, have been made by those representing the owners; and, if so, will he say how much longer is this transaction to be kept open.

There has been delay, but it was unavoidable. The Commissioners anticipate that they will shortly be able to make an offer in the case of this estate, and thus bring the matter to a conclusion.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he can define what is meant by a fundamental rule, to which reference is made in Rule 4 of the Rules and Regulations of the Board of National Education in Ireland; whether it is to be understood that the new rules were not submitted to the Lord-Lieutenant; and, if not, whether there was any special reason for not doing so; whether it is to be understood that no fundamental rule has been changed in the new rules just issued; whether he is aware of the important testimony to Irish as an educational factor in national schools contained in Mr. Dale's Report; and, if so, whether he will take steps to prevent the national language of Ireland being threatened with starvation by the Treasury.

The expression "fundamental rule" is not defined in the Commissioners' Code of general regulations, but a definition of its meaning will be found in the letter addressed on the 9th February, 1864, by the Commissioners to Sir Robert Peel, then Chief Secretary for Ireland, and published in 1870 with the Report of the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Primary Education in Ireland. Proposals involving increased expenditure necessarily require Treasury sanction before they are embodied in rules, and no fundamental rule has been changed in the new Code. In his Report on primary education Mr. Dale expressed no opinion on the propriety of retaining instruction in extra subjects, of which Irish is one. He pointed out, indeed, that in England and Wales no grants for extra subjects are made at all, that subjects such as French, Latin, Mathematics, or even Welsh are taken as part of the ordinary school curriculum, and then only when the circumstances of the school make it desirable. In answer to the concluding inquiry, I must refer to my reply to the hon. Gentleman's previous Question of Monday last.†

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that immediately subsequent to the purchase agreement on the agricultural portion of Pole Carew and Butler Estate, Banteer, county Cork, similar agreements were signed by the inhabitants of the village for the purchase of their houses; and that within the past week an official of the Estates Commission visited the place and informed the village occupiers that their purchase agreements are to be set aside and they must revert to the old terms of tenancy; and, if so, will he say if this inspector has acted with the knowledge and sanction of the Estates Commissioners; and, if so, what explanation can the Commissioners give for not adhering to the purchase system in this case.

The inspector did not inform the village occupiers referred to that their purchase agreements were to be set aside, but, in the ordinary course, he asked each tenant whether he would be prepared to pay the purchase-money in cash if the Commissioners should decline to sanction the advances applied for. Until the inspector's full report on the estate has been received, the Commissioners will not give a decision in the matter.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary

†See page 464.

to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that Major Philipps, of Gale, Cashel, county Tipperary, has offered his estate at Foyle, county Kilkenny, for sale to the Estates Commissioners; if so, whether the Commissioners sent their inspector to visit the estate; and if any offer has been made to the owner for his interest.

No application in respect of this estate has been lodged with the Commissioners.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he will give the number of applications for reinstatement received by the Estates Commissioners from evicted tenants in Queen's County; and how many of these have been reinstated or provided with equivalent farms.

A hundred and sixty-eight applications have been received, and two evicted tenants have been reinstated.

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether the Treasury has power to call for detailed accounts of the transactions of the Lough Neagh Drainage Trustees and to audit them; and, if so, whether he can state when the detailed accounts were last submitted and audited.

The Treasury does not possess the power referred to.

Has the Treasury no power to call for these accounts?

No, Sir.

And no power at all over the trustees?

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether, seeing that, by the terms of the trust, the Lough Neagh Drainage Trustees are required, as a precedent to suing for rates, to obtain from the Rolls Court a certified copy of the rate struck, he will say whether any such certified copy has been at any time issued by the Rolls Court; and, if so, when.

The Board of Works are unaware whether any such certified copy has been issued.

Has the Treasury any power to compel the trustees to carry out the terms of their trust?

I think the hon. Member is confusing the Board of Works with the Drainage Trustees?

Has the Board of Works any jurisdiction over the trustees?

I think not.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he can state when the statutory obligations imposed upon the Lough Neagh Drainage Trustees with regard to the publication of their accounts, the lodging with certain clerks of the peace and with the Rolls Court of a copy of the rate struck, and the laying before this House every year of a detailed statement of their income and expenditure, were last discharged.

This Question refers to the legal obligations of the trustees, on which the Government have no authority to advise.

When will the hon. Gentleman be able to answer the latter part of the Question?

I hope I may be able to do so to-morrow.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he can state the number of the Lough Neagh Drainage Trustees, and how many of them are land agents; and whether their accounts are subject to publicity or audit.

The number of trustees is fifteen. I have no information as to how many of them are land agents.

I will put the latter part of the Question down to-morrow. But I would ask how this body is enabled to levy rates if nobody has control over it?

The obligation is placed on them by statute.

Who has the appointment of the trustees?

Notice must be given of any further Questions.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that legal proceedings for the recovery of rates have been instituted by the Lough Neagh Drainage Trustees against numerous ratepayers; and whether, in view of the failure of the trustees to fulfil their statutory obligation to lodge with the clerks of the peace for five counties and with the Rolls Court a copy of the rate struck, he will require the trustees to fulfil these obligations before continuing the legal proceedings.

The Board of Works have no official information that any legal proceedings have been instituted. There are statements in the public Press to that effect.

I shall put the latter part of this Question down again to-morrow.

On behalf of the hon. Member for East Down, I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland, is he aware that the new pier at Portavogie, county Down, erected by the Board of Works in Ireland, has been destroyed by the recent storm; what steps he proposes to take to rectify the injury done; and will he consult and be guided by the advice of local opinion as to what should be done.

The Board of Works have no advice of any damage to Portavogie Pier, which is not in their charge but in that of the county authority.

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he can state the total amount expended by the Board of Works on the drainage of the River Bann, the average amount annually levied by the drainage trustees, and the annual average receipts of the trustees.

The total expenditure on drainage was £158,423 and on navigation £104,374. The works carried out for this latter purpose were, to a considerable extent, also useful for drainage. The Board of Works have no information as to the last portion of the hon. Member's Question.

Seeing that this money is contributed by the ratepayers and that the expenditure of the Board of Works is useless, will the right hon. Gentleman take into consideration the whole question.

The whole question is now under my consideration.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether, in view of the issues involved for the public and the contractors, and the officials who are concerned, he will appoint a Select Committee of the House to make an immediate inquiry into the admitted and alleged deficiency and wastage of stores, etc., supplied to South Africa, and as to what has become of the money expended thereon.

The proper machinery for dealing with these questions is, in accordance with constitutional usage, the Public Accounts Committee; and I think an additional reason for leaving these matters to that machinery arises from the fact that the Committee has been appointed, has sat, and actually begun the inquiry.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this Committee did not last year issue its Report until after the rising of Parliament?

I have no reason to think that any other Committee would be quicker in the presentation of its Report.

Has the Public Accounts Committee the same power as a Select Committee to procure papers and command the attendance of witnesses?

If there is any difference in these powers, the difference is in favour of the Public Accounts Committee.

May I say that the Public Accounts Committee met on Friday and proceeded to inquire into the matters referred to in the Question. General Sir William Butler, the Chairman of the War Office Committee, attended, and stated that he had six particular cases upon which he desired to lay a statement before the Committee, but that it would be impossible for him to do so before the end of April. It would be impossible, he said, to hurry the officers and others, and though the cases were different, most of the witnesses were the same. The Committee thought General Butler's reasons were unanswerable, and proceeded to inquire into one or two other and smaller cases. I hope the Prime Minister will understand that it will be impossible for the Public Accounts Committee to present any Report before Easter, but immediately General Butler presents his Report the Committee will proceed to deal with it, and issue an interim Report.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether, as he is unable to include the case of the Government workers at the dockyards in the inquiry now being conducted by the Cabinet, he will, pending the result of such an extended inquiry, intervene, as he did in the case of Sparkbrook, Birmingham, to prevent wholesale and sudden discharges of men employed in the dockyards.

I think the hon. Member is not accurately representing the action I took in connection with Enfield and Sparkbrook. As regards the discharges from the dockyards, they are made in accordance with public necessities, and gradually, and endeavour is made to make any hardship that may ensue as even as possible over the dockyards concerned.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether he is now in a position to propose any arrangement by which a brief discussion may take place on the Clothing items of Vote 7, replacing the former Clothing Vote, so as to prevent the loss of any opportunity of discussing them in the year 1905–6.

But owing to the operation of the guillotine only one afternoon is given for the discussion on Vote A.

There is the Report stage.

We have the promise of the First Lord that on Vote 1 we shall be allowed to discuss the whole Army policy.

I am not the authority in this matter, but I have done everything that can be done to facilitate discussion. I must, however, be facilitated by hon. Gentlemen opposite, who know the rules as well as I do.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether he can give an undertaking that, in accordance with the recommendation, dated July 7th, 1903, of the Committee on National Expenditure, at least one day will this year be provided for the consideration by the House of Commons of the Reports of the Public Accounts Committee, and an opportunity be given of taking a decision upon the recommendations therein.

There is really nothing for me to add to the general line of policy I have before suggested to the House, and which I am sure my hon. friend will deem to be reasonable. If the House generally desires it, I shall be happy to place at the disposal of the House one of the days allotted to Supply. If the House does not desire this, I should be very glad to find another opportunity, but in the present state of business I can give no pledge at all on the subject. The favourable wish I have expressed must not at some future time be taken as implying a willingness to sacrifice even greater interests to meet the wishes of my hon. friend.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his reply, which is purely hypothetical and founded on conjecture. I desire to ask the right hon. Gentleman if he will communicate with the Patronage Secretary with a view to the withdrawal of my name from the Committee, upon which it was placed without my consent.

I am sure there are methods by which my hon. friend can be relieved from the labour of serving on the Committee if he does not desire to serve upon it.

I do most earnestly desire to serve on the Committee, but the condition upon which I undertook to serve last year was broken, and, as I have no promise that the condition will be fulfilled this year, I desire to be excused from serving.

May I explain that I approached my hon. friend early in the session with regard to his serving on the Public Accounts Committee, and my hon. friend then said he was willing to serve if a special day were set apart for the discussion of the Report of the Committee. There was a strong desire in the House that the Public Accounts Committee should consider the Report with the least possible delay (the Report of the Auditor-General on the Wastage of Stores), and therefore it was necessary to appoint that Committee at once. As my hon. friend was out of town, I nominated him for the Committee, and wrote to him telling him that I had done so, because this Report was one in which he took great interest and one in regard to which his services would be eminently useful. I told my hon. friend that if the Prime Minister was unable to give a special day for the discussion of the Report it would be perfectly open to him to withdraw from the Committee. Indeed, I think he might have complained had I failed to nominate him. I think my hon. friend should adopt that course, and I believe it is the easiest, safest, and most courteous course that could be adopted.

said he had not charged his right hon. friend with discourtesy towards himself. He was not willing to serve on the Committee, except on the condition that there should be a day for the discussion of the Report. He understood his right hon. friend's kindness in putting his name on the Committee, and his right hon. friend would appreciate his desire to withdraw from the Committee, as the condition had not been fulfilled.

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether he is aware that the average administrative expenses of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners for England, paid out of their common fund (including fees to architects and surveyors and such legal expenses as were defrayed from the said fund) during the financial years 1902, 1903, and 1904 were more than £50,000 per annum; and that the total administrative expenses of the Commissioners paid out of the above-mentioned fund, and including the above-mentioned expenses, for the years 1890 to 1904, both inclusive, amounted to nearly £750,000; and, if so, whether, having regard to the importance to the parochial clergy of an economical administration of the funds and properties of the Commissioners, he will direct an inquiry by the Treasury into the present administration thereof, or appoint a Commission or Committee for that purpose.

was understood to say that the average administrative expenses of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners appeared to have been as stated in; the Question. The total administrative expenses had increased, but he was informed that a largo share of the administrative expenses of the Commissioners was attributable to sales and purchase of land and other transactions for the benefit of their estates. He saw no reason far an inquiry.

May I ask the First Lord of the Treasury an urgent Question relating to business? He will observe that a large number of Questions addressed to the Secretary of State for War have been shut out to-day, and this has happened on several occasions.

Order, order! That is not an urgent Question; it is one that should be put on the Paper. It cannot be put now.

said there was to be a debate to-morrow on the Statement of the Secretary of State for War, and it was found that unless they were put down earlier on the Paper, there would be no chance of receiving Answers to I these important Questions.