asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the Russian Government proposes to make a railway from the Russian frontier to the city of Tabriz in Persia; if so, whether this line will be under the control of the Russian or Persian Government; and whether he can state what the probable duration of the stay of Russian troops in Persian territory will be?

As regards the first question, I am not aware that the Russian Government have any such action in contemplation. I am unable to make any statement yet in regard to the last question.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether material is being collected by the Russian authorities for the purpose of constructing a railway from the Russian frontier to Tabriz, in Persia; and can he state the present position of the question of the introduction of railways into Persia?

I am not aware that any material is being collected by the Russian authorities for the purpose indicated by the hon. Member, nor is there any discussion proceeding at present on the subject of the introduction of railways into Persia. There is, moreover, no prospect of railway construction in Persia, so long as the Russo-Persian Railway Convention is in force; and in any case His Majesty's Government hold that it would not be advisable to take such questions into practical consideration until Persian finances have been established on a stable footing.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the Russian Government had yet appointed a Minister to represent Russia at Teheran; if so, can he state who has been appointed to fill this post; and when it is expected that he will take up his duties?

As far as His Majesty's Government are aware no appointment has yet been made.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether a concession had recently been granted by the Persian Government to a Russian syndicate conferring upon the syndicate the monopoly of the sheepskin and intestine trade for the whole of Persia for a period of five years, whether under the terms al the concession it is provided that the concessionnaires shall have the right of exporting their purchases free of duty, with a heavy resultant loss in revenue to the Persian Treasury; whether under Article 24 of the Persian Constitution all commercial, industrial, or agricultural concessions are subject to the approval of the Persian Parliament; and is it proposed by the Governments of Great Britain and Russia to protest against the grant by the Persian Government of a concession of this nature, in defiance of the provisions of the Persian Constitution, which the Shah has restored at the instance of these two Powers?

I have no information of any such concession having been recently granted by the Persian Government.

asked a further question, which was inaudible in the Gallery.

I will make inquiries as regards British interests. I do not gather from the question that there are sufficient British interests to justify an inquiry. The hon. Member seems to have more information on this subject than I have. If he will provide me with it I will inquire whether British interests are affected.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether any treaty or convention has been concluded between His Majesty's Government and that of Russia providing, among other matters, for the control of Persian financial affairs by Great Britain and Russia; and is any agreement of this nature under discussion between the two Governments?

If any money is advanced to the Persian Government, it should, in my opinion, not be done without guarantees that it is properly spent. But no such treaty or convention as is contemplated in the question has been concluded, nor is one under discussion.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the contemplated visit of His Majesty the Emperor of Russia to English territorial waters will be of a public or private nature?

On their return from a visit to the President of the French Republic at Cherbourg, the Emperor and Empress of Russia with their family propose to visit the King and Queen at Cowes during the week of the regatta. The visit will be on the sane lines as that paid by the King and Queen last year to the Emperor and Empress of Russia at Reval, and visits such as those to and from the Emperor of Germany and the King of Sweden, which I understand have been arranged, and others, such as that to the King of Italy, which are said to be contemplated.

Will the Czar be accompanied by his Prime Minister on this visit? The King was not accompanied by his Foreign Secretary when he went to Reval.

I do not know by whom the Emperor of Russia will be accompanied. He is paying a series of visits, and the visits will all be on the same lines as this.

Will the right hon. Gentleman be there in his capacity as responsible Minister for Foreign Affairs to this House in the event of any international transactions taking place?

Perhaps the hon. Member will repeat his question when the actual date of the visit is fixed, which will not be for some weeks, when I shall be able to give him an answer.

Will Parliament be sitting?

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he can state the number of Russian troops at present in Persia?

As far as I am aware, the position still stands as it did on the date of my reply to the hon. Member for West Mayo, viz., there are about 4,000 Russian troops at present in or near Tabriz, as well as small detachments which have been sent to reinforce the guards permanently stationed at Russian Consulates in other towns in the North of Persia.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether the Government has received from the Russian Government any statement as to when the Russian troops will be withdrawn?

I have answered the question of the hon. Member, and I am unable to make any further statement.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he can state whether there is any inspection of fresh or frozen meat arriving at Egyptian ports; whether such meat, if passed by the inspector, is officially marked as being in a sound condition; and whether frozen kidneys, livers, etc., when closely packed in cases, are thawed out for purposes of examination?

I have no information on the subject.

asked a further question which did not reach the Gallery.

That is primarily a matter of detail.

May I ask whether Members of this House have no right to ask for details?

Hon. Members have, of course, the right to ask for any information, but it is very undesirable that the Government should be continually pressed upon points of detail.

May I ask whether the information asked for is not obtainable?

Do not give way.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he can state whether, in the Egyptian Estimates for 1909–10, there is any increase for police expenditure; and, if so, what extra number of men will it provide for; and will there be any general increase of pay?

The estimates for 1909 provide for a slight increase under this head, but I have no information as to how it is proposed to employ this sum.

Is this not a point on which information can be asked for?

I can only repeat the answer which I have already given. The hon. Member asks so many questions every week, not merely on questions of general supervision but on details, that it is impossible to answer them all. He addresses questions on details which can only be supplied by the Local Government Board, the Board of Trade, the Home Office, the Board of Agriculture and other Departments, and it is impossible for me to supply the information.

May I ask whether that answer applies to a simple question for information? Can the right hon. Gentleman indicate any other source from which information can be obtained by Members of this House?

The hon. Gentleman seems to regard the Government of this country as an office for providing universal information.

May I ask whether it is the view of the right hon. Gentleman or the view of the Government that the British control over Egypt, which is absolute, is fitly to be exercised with a limited control of asking questions in this House?

May I ask whether the information about frozen kidneys comes under this head

I have never deprecated the right of asking questions. What I have pointed out is that it is for the House as a whole to take into consideration how far it is reasonable that the Government of this country should be asked to go into all these details. When I have information I will give it. But it is a question of degree. The hon. Member asks so many questions on points of detail that it is impossible for me to provide all the information he wants.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether His Majesty's Government has ever informed Sir Horace Plunkett of the letter written by Mr. Roosevelt, as President of the United States, regarding Sir Horace Plunkett's work in Ireland and transmitted to the Foreign Office by His Majesty's Ambassador at Washington; whether the communication in which His Majesty's Ambassador conveyed to Sir Horace Plunkett a copy of the letter was of a private character, which precluded the publication of its contents; and whether he intends that the thanks expressed by the President, on behalf of the United States, both to Ireland and to Sir Horace Plunkett should be withheld from the public?

Before that question is answered, may I ask whether it is not a matter of common knowledge that the letter was published in the Irish newspapers long ago?

I have nothing to add to the answer given to the hon. Member for North Londonderry on Monday last, except that I am not aware that we have done anything to preclude publication, which I understand has taken place.

May I ask whether the private communication of the British Ambassador not only obviously precluded Sir Horace Plunkett from publishing the ex-President's letter, but also precluded his asking the permission of the Secretary of State to publish it?

All I know is that I have been informed by the British Ambassador that he sent a copy of the letter to Sir Horace Plunkett, and I do not know that the letter has been published.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it is not a fact that this letter was first published in America, and could only have been so published by a copy of it having been handed by the ex-President of the United States to the American journals?

May I also ask when the right hon. Gentleman received the letter from the President of the United States, and if he sent a copy of it to the Irish Office?

Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will give notice of that question. I have given all the information in my possession.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether this letter was not long ago published in the Irish newspapers and made the text of innumerable eulogies of Sir Horace Plunkett?

I have nothing to add to the answer given on Monday last.

May I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware that Sir Horace Plunkett was driven out of public life by the very gentlemen who are now defending him?

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he will use his influence with the Prime Minister to have facilities given for the passage of the Bill for the heating and cleansing of Irish National Schools during the present Session?

Before I could do anything else with a view to providing some remedy for the existing state of things, it is absolutely essential that I should receive some assurance that the measure in question would be generally acceptable in Ireland. I am sorry to say that no such assurance is forthcoming, and in its absence it is impossible to proceed any further in the matter.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that hon. Members below the Gangway who represent Ireland, and my colleagues from the North of Ireland, are heartily in accord with regard to this Bill, which is urgently required, and will he bring his influence to bear on his own colleagues to allow this Bill to pass? It is a very small matter.

I should desire a little more assurance than I have yet received that this Bill will receive unanimous support in Ireland.

Did not the right hon. Gentleman receive a deputation, headed by the Countess of Aberdeen, the other day, in favour of the Bill?

Yes, but I did not gather that they had any information whatever as to the Bill receiving general assent in Ireland, in view of its throwing half the expense of this matter on the rates.

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he is aware that in considering applications for licences under The Poisons and Pharmacy Act, 1908, and to assist them in their decisions, the county councils of Ireland find it necessary to make inquiries as to whether the applicants fulfil the conditions laid down in the regulations promulgated by the Lord Lieutenant under the Act and as to the circumstances and needs of the locality; whether they can rely upon the assistance and co-operation of the Royal Irish Constabulary in acquiring this necessary information; and, if not, whether he will state what other machinery is at the disposal of the county councils for securing such information?

The duty of granting licences is by the Act thrown on the local authorities, and any inquiries necessary to enable them to deal with applications should be made by their own officers. The police cannot be asked to undertake the duties of the local authorities in the matter, but no doubt, if asked, they will furnish any information within their knowledge as to any particular applicant which the local authorities cannot otherwise obtain.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware the Irish Constabulary have been ordered not to give this information by the county councils?

I was not aware of that. But I think it desirable that the police duties should not be added to, and that they should not consider it part of their duty to obtain this sort of information. Of course, if they are in possession of such information they would be authorised to give it.

But surely it is not unreasonable that they should be allowed to get the information?

Where information is required for these purposes as to the character of a man, and whether he can read or write, and what sort of accommodation he has for carrying on his trade, I do not think that is any part of the duty of the police to supply it.

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether, in view of the repeated requests of the Athlone Board of Guardians and district councils for a division of their clerical staff, and of the fact that these bodies have secured the services of competent men under the proposed division, and that the clerks are satisfied as to the adequacy of the salaries, he will advise the Local Government Board to agree to the arrangement made by the representatives of the ratepayers?

No reasons for the proposed change have been put forward which would remove the very strong objections set out in my reply to the question asked by the hon. Member for South Westmeath on the 17th May.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that trivial matters of this nature should be left to the local guardians?

I do not know that it is a trivial matter; it appears to me to be of some importance. Formerly one person discharged these duties, and they gave him a salary of £200. Now it is proposed to have the work divided between three people on miserably small salaries. The Local Government Board do not think that at all desirable.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that four district councils in Ireland have already divided the duties in this manner with the assent of the Local Government Board?

I have no knowledge of that.

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether any deductions have been made since the passing of the Labourers Act, 1906, from the amounts payable to the local authorities in Ireland from the surplus dog licence duty on account of the withdrawal of the sum of £150,000 from the Petty Sessions Fund, and, if so, what is the amount; and, seeing that such deduction is a clear violation of the bargain made in connection with the Labourers Act by which this money formed portion of a grant in aid of local rates in respect of expenditure under the Labourers Act, whether he will give instructions to the Registrar of Petty Sessions Clerks to pay over these deductions to the local authorities?

Since the sum of £150,000 has been withdrawn from the Petty Sessions Fund for the purposes of the Labourers (Ireland) Act, 1906, the dividends on that sum have ceased to be available for the fund, and in pursuance of the Petty Sessions Clerks (Ireland) Act, 1881, an equivalent sum has necessarily been deducted from the surplus dog licence duty before payment of the latter to the local authorities. The matter was fully discussed in Debate on the Labourers Bill, and there has been no violation of any bargain. It would not be possible for the Registrar of Petty Sessions Clerks to make good the reduction, as the whole of the surplus dog licence duty has been paid over to the local authorities each year.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that this Grant was given in relief of the local rates, and in fact no relief has been extended, inasmuch as a deduction has been made from the dog licence duty?

The matter is a little bit complicated. The sum of £150,000 was taken away from the Petty Sessions Fund and made available for the Labourers Act. That reduced the resources of the Petty Sessions Fund, and they were entitled to make up the revenue from the dog licence duty. What they did was to take that duty and hand the surplus over. It was the sort of thing one might have expected to happen in connection with the administration of these Acts.

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he will state the number of students, male and female, who presented themselves for the King's Scholarship examination last Easter in Ireland, and the number of those who took Irish as one of their subjects?

I am informed by the Commissioners of National Education that 694 men and 1,859 women presented themselves for the King's Scholarship examination this year. Of these 348 men and 628 women took Irish as one of their subjects.

asked the Chief Secretary how many applications for reinstatement have been received from evicted tenants in West Kerry; how many of those have been inquired into and how many have been rejected; how many have been reinstated in their old holdings or supplied with other farms; and whether he is aware that dissatisfaction prevails owing to the delay in settling cases?

The Estates Commissioners inform me that their statistics are not compiled according to Parliamentary Divisions. The figures for the county of Kerry are as follows:—1,036 applications have been received from persons seeking reinstatement as evicted tenants, or the representatives of evicted tenants, of which number 137 were not lodged within the time specified in the Evicted Tenants Act, and have not been inquired into. After inquiry 470 applications have been rejected, 287 applicants have been reinstated in their former holdings or provided with other holdings, and 142 have been provisionally noted for consideration in the allotment of untenanted land.

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he is aware that the trustees of the Clarke property, in and near Borrisokane, county Tipperary (N.), intimated to the tenants thereon their intention to sell the property under the Land Act of 1903; that the said tenants intimated to the tenants thereon their years ago; and that the Estates Commissioners were informed of the desire of the parties to transact such sale and purchase of the property; and, if so, will he say what is the cause of the delay in giving effect to the wishes of all those concerned in this sale and purchase?

The Estates Commissioners inform me that the purchase agree- ments in connection with the sale of the estate of Gerald Higginbotham and others, trustees of Clarke, to which this question appears to refer, were not lodged until March, 1908. The estate will be dealt with in order of priority, but its turn has not yet come.

Will the right hon. Gentleman use his influence to press this matter forward

It will be proceeded with as quickly as circumstances permit.

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he is aware that the New Ross old age pensions sub-committee passed a resolution at their last meeting requesting that, in cases where the decision of the local authority is reversed on appeal by the Local Government Board, the Board be required to set forth definitely the ground on which their decision is based; and whether he will consider the advisability of seeing that the request of the New Ross sub-committee is complied with?

I have received the resolution in question. As regards the remainder of the question I would refer the hon. Member to my reply to the question on the same subject asked by the hon. Member for North Meath on 25th March last.

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he can state why and on what evidence the Local Government Board decided that Daniel Duffy, of Welshtown, county Donegal, was not entitled to a pension which was granted by the pensions committee at Stanorlar, his age being proved by the solemn declaration of Daniel M'Menamin to be over 70 years; and whether he will have the matter inquired into and Duffy's pension restored to him?

This claimant's name was not recorded among the members of his family in the Census Returns of 1841, and in the Census of 1851 his age was given as 8 years only. In view of these facts the Local Government Board felt bound to hold that he had not reached the statutory age. It is not open to the Board to reconsider their decision on the claim.

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland if he can say under what conditions can Irish pension claimants, obviously over 70 years of age, who can produce no documentary evidence of age, and who cannot be traced in the Census Office, be recommended for pensions; and what discretion, if any, is the pension officer allowed in the matter?

I have been asked by my right hon. Friend to answer this question. In a case of the kind referred to in the hon. Member's question, in the absence of documentary evidence of age, the pension officer would submit the case, with such evidence as might be available, to the pension committee for decision. In cases in which the pension committee allows the claim, the pension officer would use his discretion, according to the circumstances, as to whether an appeal should or should not be made to the Local Government Board against the pension committee's decision.

Is it suggested the claimants make false statements?

No; but they may make mistaken ones.

Is it not the fact that all the appeals under the Old Age Pensions Act are decided by the pensions officer, and one never knows what principle he acts on?

The appeals are not to the pensions officer, but to the Local Government Board.

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland is he aware that the Limerick County Council asked the Local Government Board to furnish them with the list of names of the persons in the county who have made default in the payment of their annuities under the Land Act; if he can say why the Local Government Board refused to give them the names of such defaulters; is he aware that £1,700 have been taken from the grant in aid of the rates of the county owing to such defalcation; and will he take steps to see that the council be supplied with the information asked for?

The Local Government Board are not furnished with the names of the persons in default, and, in reply to the request of the county council, have informed them on two occasions that they cannot supply the list as requested, inasmuch as the liability of the county in the matter is certified by the Land Commission and the Commissioners of National Debt, the only duty devolving on the Board being to deduct the proper proportion from the amounts payable to the several local bodies. The entire land purchase liability of the county was £2,870 15s. 9d., which has been deducted in due proportion from the shares of the several bodies in the county entitled to receive the estate duty grant. The deduction from the share of the county council as a road authority was £1,079 17s. 11d. The names of all defaulters in arrear for two half-yearly instalments and upwards will be found in the appendix to the last Annual Report of the Land Commission.

If the county council apply to the Land Commission for this information—for this list of names—will the Land Commission supply it to them; and is it not for the public interest that the representatives of the ratepayers should get this information and see that the amounts are paid off?

I do not know what the result of an application to the Land Commission would be; perhaps it had better be made first.

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland if he can say whether, as the result of the search of the Census records for the ages of Irish pensioners made by the Treasury experts, it has been found that where pensioners were traced in the Census both of 1841 and 1851 they appeared as a rule to be from one to three or more years older, judged by the 1841 records, than if judged by those of 1851; and, in view of this fact, if he can say what margin of age, if any, will the authorities allow before raising questions or disqualifying pensioners or claimants to pensions on the strength of the 1851 Census record alone; and whether, in the course of the search of the Census records, it has been found that the ages of Irish pensioners who could not originally produce birth or baptism certificates were, in numerous instances, if not in the majority of cases, found to be above the age given by them when they made their claim?

Discrepancies have been found in some cases in the relative ages of claimants as recorded in the Census Returns of 1841 and 1851, but I am informed that these cases have not been very numerous. Where these discrepancies have been found to exist the facts have been reported to the pension committees for decision. I regret that I have not sufficient statistical information available from which to verify the general conclusions which the hon. Member's question suggests might be drawn from the Census records.

If a discrepancy exists as to the age between the 1841 Census and the 1851 Census, what margin will be allowed in the matter of age?

We cannot allow any average margin of age. Each question will have to be decided upon the circumstances of each particular case. We cannot have an average age upon the points which are comprised in the hon. Member's question.

On what Census is the age taken? Is it the 1841 Census, which records the age of the applicants, or the 1851 Census?

I do not think that it can be stated universally that the question of age should be decided entirely by the 1841 or the 1851 Census.

It is this clerk in the Customs House who really decides by crossing his pen who is eligible. What is the principle involved?

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he has received representations from county councils in Ireland urging the necessity of extending the Highways and Locomotives Acts dealing with extraordinary traffic on roads in Ireland; and whether it is intended to propose legislation on this subject?

The attention of the Local Government Board has been frequently drawn to this matter by various local bodies in Ireland, and in 1905 an attempt was made to remedy the difficulty, a Bill being introduced into Parliament, which, however, did not pass into law. Quite recently the Board have been in communication with the Down County Council on the subject, and have asked for their views as to the expediency of extending and applying section 23 of the Highways and Locomotives (Amendment) Act, 1878, to Ireland. The council are now communicating with other local bodies in England and Ireland, and have not yet replied to the Board's letter.

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland if he could say who directed one of the secretaries to the Commissioners of National Education, Ireland, to write letter L94/1909 C.I. on 19th April, 1909, inquiring about the accuracy of the report of the president's address at the Teachers' Congress in Galway; could he say why no further action had been taken to ascertain the accuracy of the report, and what investigation is proposed as to the action described; and whether such action was sanctioned or approved by the Board?

The Commissioners of National Education do not consider that it would be in the interest of the public service to publish details regarding their administration such as are asked for in the question.

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he is aware that the Youghal Rural District Council, county Cork, find it impossible to purchase the requisite land, build labourers' cottages, and pay necessary expenses for the sum allowed by the Local Government Board per cottage, £170; whether he is aware that other rural district councils in the South of Ireland are similarly circumstanced; and whether facilities will be given to rural district councils in Ireland to borrow money for the purpose of making good any deficiency when the amount sanctioned by the Local Government Board is not sufficient for the object in view?

I understand that the council applied for a loan at the rate of £181 per cottage and plot, to cover cost of building, land, fencing, and incidental expenses. As the estimates for the last two items were much in excess of the average in other districts the Local Government Board sanctioned a loan at the rate of £170 per cottage and plot. Allowing for an increase in the cost of building, which is probably necessary, the Board consider that the council should be able to carry out the scheme at the rate sanctioned by curtailing the incidental expenses and providing cheaper fences. Some other district councils have stated that they are in the same position as the Youghal council. Where clue economy has been exercised the Board will be disposed to entertain an application for a supplemental loan, should the amount of the original loan be exceeded. As loans amounting to three and a quarter millions have already been sanctioned out of the four and a quarter millions provided by the Labourers Act, 1906, the Board cannot undertake to grant supplemental loans out of that fund, but a local authority can be authorised to borrow the money required in the open market.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for India whether a Mahomedan gentleman named Ali Akbar was appointed inspector of police in the Punjab over the heads of a number of European inspectors; whether this gentleman had previously been in Government service; and, if so, under what circumstances he left that service?

The Secretary of State has no information on the subject. If the hon. Member will furnish a further statement of facts the Secretary of State will consider whether there are sufficient grounds for addressing an inquiry to the Government of India.

asked whether the officers of the Indian Government telegraph service while on duty in Persia are compelled to pay Indian Income Tax; whether there is any statutory authority for this levy; and, if not, on what principle is it justified?

The officers in question are paid out of Indian revenues, and a deduction is made from their salaries at the same rate at which Income Tax would be levied under the Indian Income Tax Act if they were employed in India. The Secretary of State will consult the Government of India regarding the points raised in the latter part of the question.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for India whether he is aware that Mr. Krishna Kumar Mitra, who is one of the nine Bengali gentlemen deported in December last without charge or trial, is confined in the Agra gaol and is there living in a solitary cell, ill-lighted and ill-ventilated, that his food is cooked by an up-country convict, wholly unacquainted with Bengal dietary, and that the burning heat of Agra has already told on his health, which is much impaired; and whether, having regard to the fact that his detention has been ordered for preventive and not punitive reasons, steps will now be taken to ensure that the remaining indefinite period of his deportation will be alleviated by the removal of avoidable causes of hardship and discomfort?

The Secretary of State is not aware of the facts alleged. Mr. Mitra has, so far as the Secretary of State is aware, made no representations to the effect described by the hon. Member, and the magistrate of Agra recently reported that he had found Mr. Mitra in good health and satisfied with his treatment.

May I ask whether it is consistent with the provisions of the Regulation of 1818, which enjoins that those who are detained shall be treated with the consideration due to their rank and position—whether the terms of that Regulation are consistent with confining these gentlemen as prisoners in a common gaol?

I quite agree that the treatment of political deportees in that way ought to be suitable to their circumstances of life.

Can the hon. Gentleman tell us how many of these gentlemen are confined in gaol?

That does not arise out of this question.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for India whether his attention has been called to the recent appeal judgment of the High Court of the Native State of Travancore, acquiting 62 prisoners who had been sentenced to various terms of imprisonment for riot, characterising the prosecution evidence as a tissue of lies, and stating that there was no evidence to show that the prisoners were connected with any political movement, and to the recent acquittal on appeal by the High Court of Calcutta of three persons convicted in the Midnapur bomb conspiracy case; and whether, in view of the above-mentioned appeal judgments, he will communicate to the House statistics showing the comparative efficiency, as determined by reversals, of the courts of justice in Native States and in British India, and the extent to which in either case the personnel of the bench and of the police force is Indian in character? The hon. Member said: Of course, I only ask for such figures as are available.

The Secretary of State has seen newspaper reports of the judgments referred to. He regrets that the statistics for which the hon. Member asks are not available, and he doubts whether the result to be expected from compiling them would be commensurate with the labour involved.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for India whether the Chief Justice and Mr. Justice Mackenzie quashed on appeal from the Midnapur Sessions Court the convictions of three men in connection with the alleged Midnapur bomb conspiracy, and declared that the confessions extorted by the police were not voluntary but obtained by irregular procedure; whether, in regard to the finding of a bomb in the house of one of the prisoners, the learned judges stated that they inclined to the theory of the defence that the bomb had been placed there by the police, and that the methods of police action disclosed in this case supported this hypothesis; and whether, having regard to the character of this judgment and its bearing on the relations between the Executive Government in India and the subjects of the Crown, the official Report of the judgment, as delivered, will be laid upon the Table of the House of Commons?

On a point of order, Sir, may I ask before this and the following question are answered whether it is in order under the cover of a question to impute to the Government Of India that it suborns its police officers to fabricate evidence and brings corrupt pressure to bear upon the judicial bench?

I do not like to say whether those imputations are contained in these questions or not, but I have no doubt the Minister who answers will be quite capable of taking care of the Indian Government.

The judgment to which the hon. Member refers was delivered on 1st June, and there has therefore not been time for a copy of it to reach the Secretary of State. Until he has seen it in a full and authentic shape he can form no opinion as to the desirability of presenting it to Parliament. I may add, perhaps, that the Secretary of State has telegraphed asking for a full report of these circumstances.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for India what is the tenure under which the judges of the High Court of India hold office; do they hold office during good behaviour or at the pleasure of the Executive; and what are the safeguards for the security of their freedom from the influence and control of the Executive Government in the discharge of their duties in cases of conflict between the Executive and the subject and for their protection from any ill-consequences in the giving of decisions unfavourable to the Executive?

The judges of the High Courts, who are appointed by His Majesty, hold office during His Majesty's pleasure (24 and 25 Viet., c. 104, sect. 4). The Local Executive Government in India has no control or influence over them in the discharge of their duties.

Is not this the case that these judges of the High Court are in the strictest sense of the word Removables, and they can be deported when the Government likes? Is there ally fear of that?

No.

asked whether the recommendations of the Crown Agents' Commission have yet been carried into effect?

The Secretary of State has had under his consideration the arrangements submitted to him by the Crown Agents for the Colonies for giving effect to the recommendations of the Committee appointed to inquire into the organisation of their office, and it is proposed that the new arrangements should come into force generally on 1st July.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the statement to the deputation of local authorities on 14th January last with regard to the desirability of lengthening the period for the repayment of loans on school buildings and the prospect of such extension being given, he will take steps to secure the immediate realisation of the hopes then and thereby raised?

I would refer my hon. Friend to an answer which I gave to the hon. Member for Sunderland on 26th May last, in which I informed him that the Local Government Board habitually allow 60 years for the repayment of loans for the purchase of land for education purposes, and that, as regards loans for school buildings, my right hon. Friend the President of the Local Government Board has undertaken to consider the representations made to him by any local authority as to the circumstances of each particular case. I need not say that I adhere to the opinion which I expressed to the deputation.

asked the Prime Minister on what day he proposes to take Scotch Estimates?

The usual communications in regard to Votes in Supply will be made with the Opposition, and I hope that a day convenient to Scotch Members may be arranged shortly.

asked whether the interim Report and evidence taken before the Welsh Church Commission will be available to Members of this House at least one week before the second reading of the Welsh Disestablishment Bill is taken?

I have no information as to when the Report of the Royal Commission will be published. It is a matter that does not rest with the Government.

asked the Prime Minister whether he is aware that the London Elections Bill was on Friday last referred to a Grand Committee; whether he is aware that, in the discussions on the new Rules in 1907, Sir Henry Fowler stated that it was the intention of the Government that all important controversial Bills should be discussed in the House and not in Grand Committee; that the late Prime Minister, Sir Henry Campbell-Bannerman, replying to an Amendment relating to the franchise, informed the House that Bills dealing with Parliamentary reform were measures which ought to be left to the judgment of the House to decide; and that in the same Debate Sir Henry Campbell-Bannerman was quoted as saying that no Government would think of sending a Bill of that kind (the Franchise Bill) upstairs, because it would be such a violent reversal of the old practice, and that they might trust any Government to abstain from such a course; and what steps he proposes to take to ensure that these undertakings shall be carried out?

In the opinion of the Government, the London Elections Bill does not fall within either of the categories referred to in the question. It is less controversial, as we believe, than several of the Bills which have been considered by Grand Committtees. Nor is it a Bill "dealing with Parliamentary reform" in the sense in which that phrase was obviously used by Sir Henry Campbell-Bannerman. It merely assimilates electoral conditions in London to those of all the other great cities of the country.

asked the Prime Minister whether he has received the offer of a ship of the "Dreadnought" class or the equivalent from the Federal Government of Australia; and whether he can state if the offer has been accepted?

I have much pleasure in announcing that the following telegram was received from the Governor-General of the Commonwealth on 4th June:—

"Government of Commonwealth of Australia take earliest opportunity, after assuming office, to inform Prime Minister, as President of Imperial Conference, that they will shortly submit to Parliament their proposals for defence of Commonwealth and its coasts. They now beg to offer to the Empire an Australian 'Dreadnought' or such addition to its naval strength as may be determined after consultation with naval and military conference in London at which it will be represented. This offer will be communicated to Parliament immediately it reassembles."

To this the Secretary of State replied on 7th June in the following terms:—

"Please convey to your Ministers the warm and very cordial thanks of His Majesty's Government for offer contained in your telegram of June 4th. They welcome the opportunity for consultation which will be afforded by the forthcoming Conference on the defence of the Empire."

is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this offer of a "Dreadnought" from the new Govern- ment has met with considerable dissent from a large proportion of the people of the Colony.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will state the nature of the concessions granted to the East Africa Syndicate in East Africa what consideration was received by the Government in respect thereof; the number of Masai natives that were deported from the concession; and approximately the number of inhabitants and live stock on the lands six years ago and at the present time; and whether he is satisfied that the syndicate and other concessionnaires in East Africa have fairly fulfilled the conditions under which large tracts of land were obtained and the natives removed therefrom?

The East Africa Syndicate are the lessees of an area of 500 square miles of land in the neighbourhood of Naivasha. The term of the lease will be seen from the form of lease printed at page 24 of Command paper 2,100. The syndicate also hold a lease of the soda deposits known as Lake Magadi. The consideration reserved to the Government in this case is 5 per cent. of the profits earned by the lessee from the working of the demised premises. I am unable to state, without reference to the Protectorate, what number of Masai were transferred from the area covered by the Naivasha concession to lands elsewhere, or the number of the inhabitants and live stock on that area six years ago, and at the present time, but I will cause inquiry to be made on both points, and communicate with my hon. Friend. In the case of the Lake Magadi lease, I am not aware that there has been any disturbance of the natives or their herds. With regard to the last part of my hon. Friend's question, it is of so general a character that I find it impossible to give an adequate answer within the limits permissible for a Parliamentary reply.

With regard to the latter part of my hon. Friend's reply will the Government, as far as possible, and within reasonable bounds, insist that the conditions under which the very large concessions have been made will be honestly carried out?

Yes, I can assure my hon. Friend that the Secretary of State will see that all reasonable requirements are carried into effect.

Do we understand that while the Government receive consideration from the syndicate the natives who have been dispossessed of their land will also receive consideration from their chief?

So far as the hon. Gentleman refers to the matters which took place many years ago, when the control of this Protectorate was under the Foreign Office, I cannot answer without notice, but with regard to the future I can assure him that the interests of the natives will be fully safeguarded in every case.

Are any more concessions of this character granted nowadays?

It depends what the hon. Member means by "of this character." Perhaps he will put down a question saying of what kind of concession he approves or disapproves. We are not disposed to grant unduly large concessions to companies.

asked what is the number of pension claims in Ireland made up to 18th May, 1909, which are pending, in connection with which search has to be made in the Census Office and the ages have not yet been ascertained; how many of these are pending for two months and over and how many for six weeks and over, respectively, from that date, and how long it will take to deal with them?

The number of new claims in Ireland made up to 18th May, 1909, which are pending search in the

asked what was the aggregate number of days during the month of April last during which assistants of Excise were unemployed; the number of assistants who had fourteen days and more unemployment during the month; and the number who were unemployed the whole month?

I have no information which would enable me to give the hon. Member the facts asked for. They could only he obtained by sending out a special circular to all collectors. As at present advised, I do not think that it would be worth while imposing such increased duties on the collectors.

asked why the Revenue officers at Sheffield who collected Income Tax arrears a year ago have not yet been paid the usual remuneration for the work, and why two applications made to the Board of Inland Revenue have been ignored?

Orders for payment of the remuneration referred to by the hon. Member have been issued.

When? After I put the question?

Either the day before yesterday or yesterday. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will allow me to point out that these cases are never dealt with until all the claims have been recovered, and one of the officers concerned was exceptionally slow in sending in. It is very largely due to his remissness that it was not possible to settle them before.

asked the Secretary to the Treasury whether he can state why the pension book of Bernard M'Cormack, of Corlecky, Welshtown, East Donegal, was impounded at the post office and his pension refused after he had received it for a month; whether he can say if that is the proper procedure to follow in depriving him of his pension that, after inquiry, was granted to him by the pensions committee; and whether he is aware that many of the old people in the Stranorlar district can prove on oath that he is over 70 years of age, if that is the objection set up?

The pension in question was stopped, an appeal to the Local Government Board having been decided against the claimant, because Bernard M'Cormack's name appears in the Census of 1851, where he is returned as aged nine years, and does not appear at all, though the family is there, in the Census of 1841. In the face of such documentary evidence, statements of age founded on the belief or recollection of old persons in the locality cannot be accepted as evidence. The stoppage of the pension, pending a decision on the question, was made by the pension officer as a precautionary measure, seeing that a pensioner is liable to repay any pension received by him while the statutory conditions are not fulfilled.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that these Census Returns on which he relies would not be received as legal evidence in any court of justice, whereas the evidence of the old people would?

No, I am not.

Let him ask the Lord Advocate or the Solicitor-General.

asked how much of the cost of the Navy has been spent in Ireland; and how much has been spent on naval stores in that country?

I regret that it is not possible to make the calculation necessary to enable me to answer the hon. Member's question.

In view of the importance of this matter, could not the right hon. Gentleman ascertain what the value is of the stores annually purchased for the Navy in Ireland, and could he not tell us how much is spent in Ireland for naval purposes?

That is exactly the subject matter of the hon. Gentleman's question. I have inquired into the facts, and I find it quite impossible to separate the accounts in a way which will show how much was spent in Ireland.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it would not be perfectly feasible and easy to ascertain how much money is spent with Irish firms for stores for the Navy?

That is exactly the point we are unable to discover. So many of our contracts are for materials which are supplied by other persons, who may or may not be Irish firms, that it is impossible to distinguish between the one and the other.

May I ask whether the difficulty in procuring the information is due to the fact that not a single farthing is spent in Ireland?

The hon. Gentleman is aware that we have a naval station at Haulbowline and another naval station at Berehaven, and that some of the ships are always in Irish waters.

May I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware that his predecessor found no difficulty in obtaining the figures, and that he gave them in answer to a similar question put by me last year? They were so small that they were not worth giving.

I have not the figures of my predecessor before me. He may have answered the question, but he could not have given a complete answer.

Will the right hon. Gentleman see that the form in which the accounts are kept will be changed, so that he will be able to give the House the information in future?

No, Sir; I do not think I could undertake to do that.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is aware that the Loyalist Members for Ireland do not care how much is spent on the Navy so long as he keeps it in an efficient state?

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he has ever received from hon. Gentlemen above the Gangway the offer of a "Dreadnought" or even a jolly-boat?

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty if he is aware that Captain Hulbert was informed by Admiral Bethell that if he gave evidence against the Board of Admiralty at the naval inquiry he would be put on half pay; and whether this action has been reported to the Naval Inquiry Committee?

The allegation contained in the first part of the hon. Member's question is devoid of all foundation.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he personally assured himself?

Absolutely.

With both officers?

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty if the Admiralty will, as alleged, be able to point to improvements in the four new "Dreadnoughts" that will make the four new ships as great an advance upon the present "Dreadnoughts" as fighting forces as was the famed progenitor upon its predecessors in the Navy?

It is impossible to make exact comparison of the kind suggested, but that there will be improvements there is no doubt.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether his attention has been called to the fact that the substance of this question appeared in a prominent paper in London, whether the Admiralty authorised the statement, and whether there is any foundation for it?

My attention was called to the statement when I saw the hon. Gentleman's question on the Paper. I inquired as to what it was founded on, and I can assure the hon. Gentleman that the statement was in no sense authoritative, and that it was not the result of any communication made by any person in the Admiralty. So far as I know it was the fabrication of the writer.

That is something for Toby.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty if he will state whether he has received a communication from Sir George Armstrong explaining the facts under which Captain Bacon's and Admiral Mann's letters to Sir John Fisher had come into his hands; and, if so, whether he will lay this Paper upon the Table?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative, and to the second part in the negative.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman if he can see his way to withdraw the allegation he made as to the way in which the letters had been obtained?

May I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman has apologised in any way to those officers for what has taken place?

As the allegation was made in this House against Sir George Armstrong and the naval officers in respect to the letters, can the right hon. Gentleman see his way to withdraw the allegation in this House?

My hon. Friend knows as well as I do that no allegation was made by me against the naval officers.

Did not the right hon. Gentleman state that Sir George Armstrong had received the letters and had given a monetary consideration for them?

No, Sir; I did not say that. I said I did not know how he got them.

asked whether plans for the gun-mountings for the four battleships additional to the 1909–10 programme have been approved; and whether it will be necessary to extend the existing building slips for the construction of these vessels?

All necessary plans for the gun-mountings, and arrangements for-the building slips, will be approved in time for the ships to be laid down, should it be decided to proceed with their construction.

May I ask when the Government intend to decide whether additional ships will be constructed, and. further, whether he is aware that the country will not wait much longer?