(on behalf of The Chairman of Ways and Means) moved, "That, in the case of the Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 9) Bill, Standing Order 193A be suspended, and that the Bill be now read the first time."

Are we to have no explanation of the reasons for this proposal?

I agree that the hon. Member has every right to demand an explanation. This no doubt is a not unusual course, but it is one we desire to avoid as far as possible. There are three Provisional Orders concerned in this, and in each there is a case of urgency, and there is an entirely satisfactory explanation for the delays. The first case is that of the Hitchin Order dealing with the breaking up of the hospital district, and with the transfer and disposal of the hospital site purchased by the Joint Board. There is no objection to it; it is at the desire of the district and of the Hertfordshire County Council. It is urgent because should infectious disease break out the situation, without an isolation hospital, might be serious. The reason for the delay which occurred is almost absurd; it has been due to a mistake in the printer's office of one of the local papers by which there was a failure to insert the statutory advertisement. The second case is that of the Maryport Order which deals with the water supply. That is urgent because the water supply, as it at present exists, has been condemned by the Local Government Board Inspector, and there would be very considerable responsibility in the event of disease breaking out. The inspector reports that the imperfections and shortage of the supply are due to the inefficiency of certain apparatus, and that it is therefore necessary to proceed at once with the changes. The reason for the delay in this case is that the Local Government Board found it necessary to consult the Law Officers of the Crown as to their powers in regard to Provisional Orders of this description and after the legal opinion had been obtained and the local inquiry had been held there was not time to bring the Order forward in the ordinary way. The third case is a joint Sewerage Order for Whaley Bridge District. In this case a local inquiry was held, it was found that there were imperfections in the sewerage, as originally it was only proposed to include certain parts of the district in the sewerage scheme. Since then, as a result of the local inquiry, there has been a readjustment of the district which necessitated a further advertisement.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty what mark of 12-inch gun is carried on board the "Lord Nelson," "Dreadnought," "Invincible," and" Bellerophon"?

It is not desirable to make public details of the armament of His Majesty's ships.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this information is stamped on the breach end of all guns, and can be read by every man on board ship, and seen by every sightseer who may visit the vessels at Southend? Why, then, is the information refused?

I am not aware of that.

It is the case.

asked the class or name of His Majesty's ship which will be stationed off the Cretan coast on the evacuation of that island by British troops in July?

No ship has yet actually been selected.

Cannot the right hon. Gentleman give some idea of the class of ship?

I think it will probably be a cruiser.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty why, under Vote 11, Subsection U, of the Navy Estimates, Scotland is the only part of the Empire where allowances are not given to ministers of religion for services to seamen and marines of His Majesty's ships and for accommodation in churches; and whether, in view of the increasing visits of the Fleet to Scottish waters, the work done amongst the sailors by ministers in Scotland, the accommodation in churches in Scotland made use of by the sailors, and the fact that there are no Presbyterian chaplains in the Navy, he will consider whether Scotland can be treated as favourably as other parts of the Empire?

Fixed allowances, as detailed in reply to a question by the hon. Member for North Londonderry on 24th June, are granted only when the ministrations required are practically continuous. No such conditions at present apply to any parts of Scotland. The regulations governing the payment of allowances for casual religious ministrations to seamen and marines of His Majesty's ships apply equally to all parts of the British Isles. In the case of ministrations to Coastguard men in Scotland, no payment is made to clergymen of the Established Church; but this condition also obtains with regard to services rendered to Coastguard men in England by clergymen of the Church of England.

How has this injustice to Scotland arisen?

I have just said that Scotland is suffering under no injustice.

asked if the consent of the Admiralty is a necessary condition prece- dent to the setting up of abattoirs for the slaughter of foreign cattle in the island of Alderney; and, if so, has such consent been granted, or will it be?

The consent of the Admiralty would be necessary to any scheme which involved the acquisition or use of Admiralty property, or which might tend to imperil its sanitary condition. No consent has been given by the Admiralty to any such scheme, and any application would have to be considered on its merits.

Is it not impossible to erect an abattoir in the island without affecting Admiralty property?

It would depend on the position. If it affected Admiralty property the consent of the Admiralty would have to be obtained.

asked whether the maps which were to have been issued to His Majesty's ships indicating the position of fishing fleets around the coast of Scotland have yet been issued; and whether a copy of the said map is obtainable?

These charts are for the use of His Majesty's ships only, and will shortly be issued to them. They will not be obtainable by the general public, the information contained in them being confidential.

May I be allowed to see one of these charts?

I do not think there would be any objection to the hon. Gentleman seeing one of them.

asked how many completed British and German destroyers are armed with a more powerful gun than the 12-pounder?

Great Britain, 2; Germany, 27.

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied with those figures of relative strengths?

Yes; the hon. Gentleman must not assume that the existence of a single more powerful gun on a destroyer renders that destroyer necessarily more potent as an enemy against a destroyer which has a larger number of smaller guns.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether the speed of the 16 destroyers provided for under the programme for 1908–9 is to be 27 knots; and if he will state what foreign Powers are building destroyers with a lower speed than 30 knots?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. The following vessels building for foreign Powers and not yet completed have a designed speed of less than 30 knots:—

Will the right hon. Gentleman give me a Return of the destroyers of the French, British, German and United States navy with a trial speed of 30 knots and over?

I think it would be most misleading if the hon. Gentleman got the Return for which he asks. Trial speed indicates nothing unless the conditions are the same. One destroyer under some conditions may only give 27 knots, but under other conditions it would give 33.

The right hon. Gentleman does not think that that will give us some information?

No; I do not think the information would be of the least value unless the conditions were the same.

asked what is the weight of the shell fired by the four-inch guns carried by the "Boadicea" class of protected cruiser?

31 pounds.

I am aware——

I am sure the House is always very glad to hear the hon. Gentle-man's speeches, but not at question time.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty if he can now state whether any decision has been come to with regard to the provision of additional docking accommodation for warships of the largest size on the East Coast?

It has been decided to construct two floating docks capable of taking ships of war of the largest size. The port to which they will be sent will depend upon the strategical requirements of the time.

Cannot the right hon. Gentleman now say to what two ports these decks will be sent in the first instance?

I think my hon. Friend is greatly concerned on behalf of the Med-way, and I have no doubt that one of them will go to the Medway.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether these two docks are those for which a small instalment is taken in this year's Estimates?

Yes.

Will the dock which goes to the Medway be operated and worked from Sheerness?

That would seem probable, from the point of view of facilities for carrying on repairs.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether he proposes to establish or build a dry dock?

I do not think that arises out of the question.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he can now state where the new floating docks are to be placed; and how many on the East Coast will be capable of floating a "Dreadnought"?

This question is answered by the reply I have just given to my hon. Friend the Member for Faversham.

Is it intended that Grimsby shall have one of these docks?

We are considering various facilities offered at different ports, and it would be impossible for me to say at the present moment where the docks will be situated.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will state the number of Chinese labourers remaining in the Transvaal on the 30th April last; and whether a date has yet been fixed for the departure of all such labourers as now remain?

The number of Chinese remaining on the 30th of April was 7,734, and the last is due to return in January, 1910.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies if he can state (1) the cost of the prosecution in the defence, respectively, of Dinizulu and the other Zulu chiefs recently tried at the instance of the Natal Government; (2) what financial provision the Government made for the defence of Dinizulu; and what proportion that bore to the whole cost; (3) if any report has been asked for or received from Dinizulu's solicitors or counsel showing what was necessary to be done in order to secure a proper defence for the accused; and whether the Government has paid these necessities or has left them to be provided for by Miss Colenso?

The Governor of Natal will be asked to furnish such information as may be available as to the cost of the trials of Dinizulu and the other chiefs. Till that information is received it is impossible to say what proportion the contribution of His Majesty's Government, which, as my hon. Friend is aware, was two thousand guineas, bore to the whole cost. As regards Miss Colenso, I regret that I can add nothing to my statement of the day before yesterday.

Did not the Colonial Secretary a year ago by his implied censure of the action of the Natal Government in withholding this unfortunate chief's salary make himself responsible for the cost of the defence, and ought not to have relied upon a private person?

I would remind the hon. Gentleman that the Natal Government itself furnished a sum of £500 for the purpose of the trial and other expenditure as well.

Is it not a new precedent for the Colonial Office to identify itself with the defence of a person placed on his trial by a Colonial Government for what it believes to be good reasons?

I have said before that the circumstances in this case were themselves unprecedented. The £500 was for the purpose of the defence, and other sums were contributed by the Natal Government, for setting up this special court, amounting to a large amount.

Is the House to understand that the Government is going to leave him to defend himself against accusations, all of which have been disproved—accusations of a most grave character—and to leave him to depend upon private persons?

He was a Government officer, but the Government did not leave him to defend himself or to face the charges. A very large sum was paid by the Government under circumstances which are unprecedented, because the circumstances were themselves unprecedented—a sum of 2,000 guineas.

Does the hon. Gentleman allow that all the charges were disproved? Will he give us some assurance that public funds will not be used to recoup Miss Colenso?

Why did not the right hon. Gentleman try him by an Indian coercion trial?

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he is aware that the export duties in the Leeward Islands were originally imposed on the assurance that so soon as a surplus could be shown the duties should be in whole or in part remitted; and, if so, whether, in view of the fact that such a surplus has now been established, he can now give effect to such assurances?

There are no export duties imposed in the Leeward Islands as a whole. As I explained in my answer to the hon. Gentleman's previous question on the subject, each Presidency has its own system of taxation enacted by its own Legislature, and in some of the Presidencies export duties on different articles have been in force for a considerable period. Any such assurance as that to which the hon. Gentleman refers must have been given, if at all, in respect of a particular Presidency. If he will inform me in which Presidency or Presidencies he believes the assurance to have been given, I will look into the matter, and, if necessary, ask the Secretary of State to obtain a report from the Governor on the subject.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will state under what agreement the Pacific Islands Company (now Pacific Phosphate Company) became bound to pay the Imperial Exchequer 6d. per ton royalty on all the guano phosphates exported from Ocean Island in and after the year 1906; also the date on which this agreement was signed, and who were the signatories thereto?

A licence to occupy Ocean Island generally on the terms mentioned by my hon. Friend was granted to the Pacific Islands Company on 13th August, 1901. The licence was signed by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Birmingham, then Secretary of State for the Colonies, on behalf of the Crown, and by Lord Stanmore and the late Mr. Ebenezer Cayford, directors, and Mr. E. Benbigh, acting secretary, on behalf of the company. This licence was, however, surrendered, and the one at present in force issued to the Pacific Phosphate Company on 31st December, 1902. The signatories to the latter were the right hon. Gentleman the Member for the St. Augustine's Division of Kent (in the absence in South Africa of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Birmingham) on behalf of the Crown; Lord Stanmore and Mr. E. A. Levy, directors; and Mr. A. J. Reeves, secretary, on behalf of the company. I may explain that this second licence, the one now in force, made no alteration in the pecuniary conditions of the earlier licence.

Is the Company possessed of personalty? Is it registered in London?

I do not know. I think it would be easy to find out who they are.

Is he aware that great injury to public interests was done under this licence, and the monetary consideration was ludicrously insufficient.

I do not know about that; it all happened a very long time ago.

asked the Lord Advocate whether he was aware that the cottars of Harris, Inverness-shire, have recently decided to take forcible possession of a farm in that island unless the estate managers accede to their request for a division of the farm into small holdings; and will he state whether the Congested Districts Board are making any efforts to bring about a pacific arrangement?

I am informed that a resolution in the sense indicated by my hon. Friend was recently communicated to the estate managers, who took what in the circumstances was the proper course of applying for interim interdict, which was granted; and I trust that the action taken may be effectual in checking the threatened-proceedings.

asked what was the amount of the county contribution towards the costs of the prosecution numbered 421, in which the persons charged are described as——, and three others, referred to on page 43 of the Return recently issued by order of the House, under the Prosecution of Offences Acts, 1879 , 1884, and 1908; and whether, in arriving at the cost to the Treasury, any item has been included to cover the services of the Treasury solicitor, his clerks, and officials?

I beg to answer this question on behalf of my hon. Friend. Nothing has been received by the Director of Public Prosecutions by way of contribution from any local funds, but the allowances for witnesses for attending the magisterial inquiry in the case referred to amounted to £227 17s. 3d., and were paid out of the City funds. This figure is not included in the Return, as it was not a payment made by the director. Neither in this nor-in any other case in the Return is any item of cost charged for the services of the Director of Public Prosecutions or his staff, who are paid by salary.

asked whether anything is being done in the neighbourhood of Upper or Lower Quinton, in Gloucestershire, to provide small holdings and allotments; and, if so, what?

Three applications have been received from this district, and one of them has been satisfied. The county council have endeavoured to acquire by voluntary arrangement land to satisfy the other two applicants. They have, however, failed to do so and have decided to make an Order for compulsory hiring.

asked how many applications for land under the Small Holdings and Allotments Act have been made in the parish of Welford-on-Avon, Gloucestershire, for what amounts these several applications were, and at what dates were they made; has anything been done to satisfy those applicants, and, if so, what, and when; were they offered an out-of-the-way field on Lord Sackville's estate, which field was practically derelict, being largely grown over with gorse, brambles, thorns, etc.; and, if so, has any official seen and reported on this field?

Thirteen applications have been received by the County Council. Seven of them were for two acres, three for one and a-quarter acres, and the other three for six, five, and three acres respectively. Ten of them were received in May and two in March of last year, the other one in May last. The applicant for six acres has been satisfied and the County Council have submitted to the Board an Order for the compulsory acquisition of sufficient land to satisfy the ether applicants. The field which Lord Sackville offered to the county council was conveniently situated for small holdings, but the character of the soil and the condition of the field rendered it unsuitable. The offer of it was, therefore, declined by the council. It was not seen by any of our inspectors.

asked whether the Board of Agriculture have any reports upon the small holdings established under the last Act at Clifford Chambers, Gloucestershire; and, if so, what is the nature of those reports?

The reply is in the negative, but we shall be glad to make inquiries.

asked if it is proposed to permit the establishment of abattoirs for the killing of Argentine and other foreign cattle in the island of Alderney?

The reply is in the negative.

asked the hon. Member for South Somerset whether he can furnish any information with regard to the bee disease that has broken out in Buckinghamshire and the Isle of Wight; whether the disease is spreading; and if any means of combating the disease has been discovered or any reward offered for the discovery of a cure?

We have published in our Journal reports as to the investigations made as to the nature and cause of the bee disease in the Isle of Wight, and I shall be glad to send the gallant and hon. Member a copy. A suspected case has occurred in Buckinghamshire, but there is no evidence to show that the disease is spreading. No remedial measures have yet been discovered, but an expert scientist is still engaged in making investigations in the hope of doing so. We do not think that any useful purpose would be served by offering the reward suggested.

asked whether the post office promised for Wyck Rissington has yet been opened; and what departments of postal and other services are being granted?

I hope it may be possible to open this post office in the course of a few days for ordinary postal business, including postal order work. Money order and Savings Bank business will not, however, be transacted for the present.

asked whether the telephone service promised to the village of Upper Slaughter, Stow-on-the-Wold, is yet completed and in use; and, if not, when it will be?

It is hoped that the service will be in working order in about a week.

asked the President of the Local Government Board if he is aware that a member of the Dewsbury board of guardians has not attended a meeting for more than twelve months, and that the guardians refuse to take steps to fill up the vacancy; and will he take action in the matter?

I understand that the facts are as stated, and that the guardians have not taken steps to declare the seat vacant in view of the fact that there will be a triennial election in April next, when the whole of the guardians go out of office. Unless the absence of the guardian in question from the meetings of the board has been caused by illness, or by some other reason approved by the guardians, they should declare the office to be vacant, and thereupon, if notice in writing of the vacancy is given by two guardians to the chairman or clerk, an election must be held to fill it up. I am pointing this out to the guardians; but I have no control over them in the matter.

asked the President of the Local Government Board if he has had the case of John Thompson, of Blackburn, a claimant for an old age pension, under consideration on an appeal by the pension officer; is he aware that the pension committee granted his pension, and that the grounds of the pension officer's appeal are that the claimant, who is an Army pensioner, has received advances from the guardians which are repaid in full out of his Army pension every quarter; and if this is disqualifying poor law relief?

I have received an appeal from the pension officer against the decision of the pension committee allowing a pension in this case, and I am in communication with the guardians on the subject. Until all the facts are before me I cannot express an opinion on the particular case, but I may say generally that I am advised that where poor relief has been given the repayment of the cost does not remove the disqualification caused by its receipt.

Does it apply to a case where the guardians simply make an advance to an army pensioner and the advance is deducted from the pension?

That would depend upon the individual circumstances of each case.

Is a pensioner disqualified if his pension is paid through the guardians?

That depends on whether the guardians act simply as a medium of communication from the pension officer to the pensioner. There are circumstances when advances assume the form of outdoor relief.

asked if it has been finally decided that the grant of outdoor relief, however small, to a husband disqualifies the wife also for a pension; and, if not, why the decision of the Dore Sub-Committee of the Hereford Pension Committee to grant a pension to No. 317,: Hannah Lewis, Shipton Croft, was reversed, though her husband has only had 2s. 6d. a week, the lowest sum that the local board of guardians ever grant to one person.

It would not necessarily follow that a wife was disqualified for an old age pension because her husband received relief. All the circumstances must be considered. In the case referred to the claimant had no independent means of her own, and hence it appeared to the Local Government Board that she must participate in the relief given to her husband,, and that consequently she was disqualified.

Has it not been repeatedly laid down in regulations issued by the right hon. Gentleman's Department, and in reply to questions in this House, that Poor Law relief given to a husband does not disqualify the wife for a pension unless the amount is so large that it is obviously intended for the support of both.

Yes; but where, as in this particular case, the amount of outdoor relief given to the husband is only 2s. 6d. a week, obviously an amount incapable of sustaining both, we construe it the other way.

I understand the poorer the person is the greater the chance of being struck off the pension list?

No, not always.

When, as is the universal practice in Ireland, a man gets a shilling a week, what proportion of that will go to the support of the wife?

In this particular case is the House to understand that if this woman had had independent means she would not have been disqualified?

That would depend upon her means and their relationship to her husband's means.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in this particular case the woman was occasionally in receipt of relief from her children?

Yes.

Have the Board of Guardians indicated that this relief was entirely for the husband or partly for him And partly for the wife?

If the husband had only had 2s.6d.—the lowest sum that a board of guardians can grant to one person—it was granted to the husband.

Are we to understand that the ground why the woman was disqualified was that since she had no means of her own she must be assumed to have had part of the 2s. 6d.?

The Noble Lord has correctly assumed the facts. The guardians and the Local Government Board say it is impossible if a man receives half-a-crown a week, and his wife has no means, that he is going to allow his wife to go without any portion of that 2s. 6d. She must share it.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he is now in a position to make any statement in regard to the facts of the firing upon the British vessel "Woodburn" by Russian warships; and what action he proposes to take?

I beg to refer the hon. Member to the last sentence of the reply returned to the questions which were asked on this subject on 21st June. Neither of the documents there mentioned has yet reached me, but I hope to receive both shortly. I may state, however, that it has been ascertained that the "Woodburn" was in Russian territorial waters, and no question of the high seas is involved.

asked the reason why there has been no public inquiry into the wreck of the s.s. "Republic" early this year?

The "Republic" sank after collision with the Italian steamer "Florida" in American waters on 23rd January last. Formal investigation was not ordered in this country, as the Board of Trade had no power to compel the attendance of witnesses from the Italian vessel, and any public inquiry that might have been held in their absence would necessarily have been of an ex parte character and possibly prejudicial to the interests of the English vessel. Actions were entered in the United States District Court, and are, I am informed, still pending. It was reported in the newspapers that the "Florida" had been arrested by a United States marshal and subsequently sold by auction.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether in the Finance Bill he will, in order to encourage thrift, provide as to the levy of ordinary and super-income taxes from life assurance companies that these taxes shall henceforth be levied only on the amount of ascertained business profit, and not on the income derived from investments made In order to gain business profit?

Liability to supertax is, under the proposals of the Finance Bill, limited to individuals. My right hon. Friend regrets that he does not see his way to modify the existing law as regards ordinary Income Tax in the direction indicated by my hon. Friend.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether the Finance Bill makes any specific provision for taxing the increment of amount or casualty on transfer by a vassal which the owner of a superiority in North Britain may presently levy from the new vassal over and above what the superior received on the occasion of any former transfer; and whether he proposes to make any exemption or reduction in favour of a vassal who may be called upon by the superior to pay by way of casualty or fine upon a transfer to a new vassal of the subject a year's rent thereon incremented by the buildings erected by and goodwill created by the vassal?

The answer to the first part of my hon. Friend's question is in the negative. The Increment Tax in the Bill is leviable only on a transfer on sale of land, the grant of a lease, or on a death. My right hon. Friend does not propose, therefore, to make any exemption or reduction such as is suggested in the question.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer, as to the incidence of Increment Tax and halfpenny Development Taxes under the Finance Bill on properties held by vassals in superiorities in North Britain, such as the Duke of Roxburgh's superiority over Kelso, whether the superior or the vassals will be held liable to the payment of the Development Tax; whether the superior will be entitled to any exemption or allowance if his vassal refuses to develop; and whether, when the vassal has developed his property by making a garden or building a shop or factory or establishing a good will, the superior will be entitled, on any occasion of casualty or relief, to levy from the vassal any increase of payment based on such improved value, and in what time and manner the superior receiving any such increase will be required to pay the Increment Tax?

The taxes mentioned by my hon. Friend are, under the Finance Bill, payable by the vassal and not by the superior. The answer to the second part of my hon. Friend's question is in the negative. Although the superior may be entitled to levy an increased amount of casualty in consequence of development of his land made by the vassal, the superior will not be required to pay the Increment Tax.

May I ask whether in that case the tax will not be paid twice over?

No, I do not think so.

asked whether in the German Empire there is any Income Tax; and whether in Prussia the maximum rate of Income Tax on the largest incomes is no more than 4 per cent.?

There is no Imperial Income Tax, but, as I stated in reply to the hon. Member for Aston Manor, on the 28th inst., a system of Income Taxation prevails in practically every German State. The answer to the second part of the question is in the affirmative, but by a law which passed the Prussian legislature on 26th May, 1909, the rate of the Income Tax on the highest class of income (those over £1,800 per annum) has been raised by 25 per cent., making the rate 5 per cent. instead of 4 per cent. The Erganzungssteuer or property tax (a tax on capital complementary to the Income Tax) has also been raised by 25 per cent. of the tax due. This tax worked out on the old scale in terms of Income Tax amounted to l¼ per cent., which would now be 19–16ths, or something over 1½ per cent.

asked whether in France there is any Income Tax payable on French Rentes or any French or foreign Government securities; and whether Income Tax in France is payable by the individual on profits on trade or on professional earnings?

I believe that the French dividend tax does not apply to French Rentes or to any French or foreign Government securities, but falls on the dividends and interest of all companies or enterprises, financial, industrial, commercial or civil, and also on the interest of loans of departments, communes, etc. There is no Income Tax at present in France in the strict British sense of the term, but as I explained to the hon. Member for Aston Manor on the 28th instant, there are several direct taxes which correspond generally with our income tax. The existing taxes fall upon the trader and professional man either through the ImpÔt Foncier if he owns land; through the dividend tax; or through the patentes tax, which is an annual duty on the exercise of a profession or trade graduated according to size of town, rent of premises, number of employés, etc. It has been calculated that this latter tax represents an average rate of about 3 per cent. on the revenue derived from the exercise of the profession in question.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it is not a fact that a millionaire in France, the whole of whose money is invested in French Rentes, pays no Income Tax of any sort whatever?

Yes, according to the answer I have given I think that is so.

asked whether the existing Excise licences held by rectifiers of spirits, dealers in spirits (including the additional licences to retail), manufacturers of sweets, retailers of sweets, and dealers in beer (including, in England, the additional licences to retail), will expire on 5th July next; and, if so, whether, on the renewal of any and which of them, the duties specified in the Budget Resolution of the Committee of Ways and Means will be then payable?

The licences referred to in this question except the licence to a dealer in beer in Ireland (which expires on]0th October) will expire as stated in the question. Upon the renewal of the licences on 6th July next, the duties will be charged for the year at the existing rates, but it is provided by clause 39 of the Finance Bill that these renewed licences shall cease to be in force on the 30th September next, and that the Commissioners of Customs and Excise shall repay, or allow to the holder of any such licence, an amount of duty proportionate to the time by which the period of the currency of the licence is diminished.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether the duty payable on the new licences will be wholly proportionate to the charge due before 30th September?

I understand that the whole of the Licence Duty will be payable on the scale of the existing duties, and that the proper proportion will be payable on 30th September.

Do I understand that that refers to all the new licences?

The duties will be charged on the existing scale.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether the new Licence Duties apply to Ireland or not?

Yes, as far as I know, they do.

May I ask whether, in the event of the Bill not becoming law by that date there will be a further postponement and a smaller proportion payable?

Yes, if a smaller proportion was due a smaller proportion-would be payable.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, in view of the difficulty of accurately estimating the value of ungotten minerals, he would be prepared to consider an alternative tax on mineral-royalties?

My right hon. Friend will be very glad to consider any such alternative proposals as may be laid before him which produce the same results.

Is the right hon. Gentleman prepared to consider the desirability of introducing a fresh Resolution, as the Amendments which hon. Members desire to-move will be out of order, because they do not fall within the scope of the existing Resolution?

It is not for me to say whether the Amendments will be out of order or not.

I should like to ask the right hon. Gentleman two questions. In the first place, does he consider the mineral clauses of the Finance Bill are unworkable; and, secondly, will the Government make a statement on the subject before the House is asked to pass Clause 1?

I cannot answer the second question put to me. I think it had better be addressed to my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this proposed change would penalise the man who does work his mine, and would continue to exempt the man who shuts his mine up?

Does this apply to the halfpenny tax on undeveloped land?

In view of the announcement of the right hon. Gentleman-that he is prepared to abandon this tax, will he be so good as to request the Chancellor of the Exchequer to make a statement this afternoon as to that part of the mineral tax affected by Clause I?

The Noble Lord has attributed to me something which I have not said. All I have said is that my right hon. Friend would be very glad to consider any alternative proposal.

Does the right hon. Gentleman mean that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would be ready to consider any alternative proposal having the same financial effect?

Yes.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman will he press upon the Chancellor of the Exchequer the great importance of letting the House know whether there is to be a tax on mining royalties or not in view of the discussion to-day?

I am sure that the hon. Member is quite as capable of pressing the Chancellor of the Exchequer as I am.

asked whether in Frankfort Increment Duty is paid solely upon transfers on sale of land, and not upon leases?

The tax in Frankfort is payable on change of ownership and is reckoned on a basis of sale price. No mention of leaseholds occurs in the law, possibly because transactions in real property in Frankfort are practically confined to sales and purchases of freehold tenures. I may, however, mention that the latest Hamburg law, which came into force on 12th October last, provides that the same principles of the taxation of increment value shall be applied to leaseholds as to 'freeholds. This provision has been introduced by way of precaution as leaseholds are at present very uncommon in Hamburg.

May I ask whether this tax does not apply to houses as well as land?

My right hon. Friend (Mr. Lloyd-George) proposes to lay upon the Table a Blue Book containing all the information about this Frankfort administration, and the other Papers which were promised to the House. It is already in the hands of the printer, and I hope it will be in the hands of Members in the course of a day or two.

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland if he is now in a position to say when the distribution of the Killulagh ranch, Fetherstonhaugh estate, Westmeath, will be carried out?

The Estates Commissioners expect to be in a postion to take over possession of these lands at an early date for the purposes of distribution.

asked whether school-houses in rural districts in Ireland are available, outside school hours, for residents in those districts to meet for lawful purposes, such as the discussion of land purchase in their district, with the consent of the manager and subject to the security of property; and will no ill consequence result to a teacher who allows such use, whether he is present at the meeting or not?

The Commissioners of National Education inform me that the use of National schoolhouses outside school hours is under the control of the managers, subject to the Commissioners' rules, which provide, amongst other things, that vested schoolhouses are not to be used for any purpose other than education without the special approval of the Commissioners, and that no political meetings are to be held in any schoolhouse. National school teachers have no power to sanction the use of schoolhouses for any purpose outside school hours.

Does not this rule as to obtaining the approval of the Commissioners of National Education practically abrogate all the responsibility of the manager with regard to the use of the school?

No. As the hon. Member knows, certain schoolhouses in Ireland are vested, and others are different in character. The vested schoolhouses may not be used without the special leave of the Commissioners. There is a general rule that no political meetings should be held in any school.

asked the Prime Minister if he will state on what date the Agricultural Rates Relief Act expires; and whether it is the intention of the Government to renew the Act?

The Act expires on 31st March, 1910. The Government will in due time propose a temporary renewal of the Act, in view of their intention to deal with the whole relations between Imperial and local taxation.

Is it the intention of the Government to propose that renewal during the present Session of Parliament?

Yes.

Was not the effect of this legislation to make the urban ratepayer pay half the rates of the agricultural ratepayer?

That does not arise out of the question.

asked the Prime Minister whether he is aware that the Lord Bishop of London has issued regulations sanctioning the ceremonial use of incense in his diocese, although this practice has been condemned by the Court of Arches and declared by the Lambeth tribunal to be non-permissible in the ritual of the Church of England, the same bishop having also permitted the introduction of illegal vestments and other irregularities; and whether he proposes to take any action, legislative or otherwise, to prevent the law being overridden, and to ensure to clergy and laity their right to a legal performance of divine worship in the diocese of London?

I have been in communication with the Bishop of London on this subject. He informs me that no change has been made in any of the matters referred to in the hon. Member's question during the last eight years, and no fresh regulations have been issued with regard to them. The only change in the situation which has occurred is that in a sermon preached a few weeks ago at All Saints, Margaret-street, by the Bishop, he announced that he would not hesitate now to be present at the use of incense, where the regulations made by his predecessor and continued by himself were loyally observed. The use of incense on this occasion was not what is called ceremonial use. I do not propose to take any action.

asked whether delay in completing purchase transactions under the Land Purchase Acts is caused by lack of money or by official slowness due to the knowledge possessed by a large staff that their occupation is essentially temporary; and is there in operation in the Estates Commissioners' offices any system of measuring output by the number of titles investigated, the number of documents examined, the number of estates or agreements dealt with, and recognition of abundant and correct work as distinguished from small and defective work?

There is no ground for the suggestion that the officials of the Land Commission work slowly because the appointments of many of them are temporary. Any delays which may occur are due not to want of money, which has hitherto been advanced as required, or to the lack of official zeal, but to the magnitude of the work of land purchase. The Land Commission are in a position at any time to ascertain the number of titles, estates, and agreements dealt with by their examiners and other officers.

asked when the Irish Land Commission, collecting interest in lieu of rent for a landlord under a decree, have to resort to seizure, do they seize necessaries of life; and do they propose in the case of Widow Early, on the Chapman-estate, Westmeath, to seize the cow that supplies herself and her children with milk, there being no other property worth seizing?

The decrees of the Court are not executed by the Land Commission,, but by the Sheriff of the county.

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that the legal proceedings taken by the Irish Land Commission last winter against 4,964 quasi-purchasers, and against 9.476 payers of interest in lieu of rent, in all cases added some costs to the original amount claimed: and whether he will state the number of these cases settled, with the minimum addition of costs and the aggregate amount of these costs; the number defended or resisted with an increase of costs, with the aggregate amount of these costs: the total addition to the original claims by the proceedings taken; the number of cases and total amount not recovered, and for which the Development Grant and the grants otherwise payable to local bodies are liable; the number of farms occupied by defendants and not paid for; and the number sold in satisfaction of the claim?

The information asked for by the hon. Member could not be procured without imposing on the staff of the Land Commission, who are already fully occupied, an amount of labour out of all proportion to the value of the Return when made out. I cannot, therefore, ask them to supply these particulars. A good deal of the information which the hon. Member requires will be found in the last Annual Report of the Land Commission.

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he can state on what ground the Local Government Board disallowed the pension granted to Widow Madge Doherty, of Woodlands, by the Stranorlar (county Donegal) Pension Committee, she having been shown by the Census to be 73 years of age; and whether he will cause her case to be inquired into in every detail with a view to having her pension restored to her?

The statutory condition as to age was fulfilled in this case, but the Local Government Board disallowed the pension on the ground that the claimant's means, as calculated under the Act, exceed the prescribed limit. The case was carefully considered by the Board, and it is not open to them to review their decision on the claim.

asked what has been the result of the inquiry made by the police authorities into the bayonet charge made by the police on parties cutting turf in the Portriad bog, at Cappamore, county Limerick, on 4th May last; will the name of the policeman who stabbed John Mulcahy be made known, and will any prosecution be initiated against him, considering that Mulcahy's life was in danger for more than a week; and will the Government compensate those who were wounded on the occasion, particularly John Mulcahy, who was detained in the Union Hospital, Limerick, for four weeks, and who it is feared has been permanently injured as a result of the stab received on the occasion?

The inquiry into this matter will not be completed for some little time, and, in the meantime, I am not in a position to answer the remainder of the question.

Is there any foundation for the report that the inspector who ordered the charge has been transferred to another district?

I think not.

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland if he will state whether, on the sale of judicial tenancies under the Land Purchase (Ireland) Acts, the Estates Commissioners have any regard for the fact that in many cases the landlords have removed the timber and hedgerows, or shelters, which were growing on the lands at the time when the rents were fixed; is he aware that injustices are being perpetrated upon tenants in this respect; and does he propose to take any steps in the matter?

The Estates Commissioners are not aware of any case such as is mentioned in the question.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that the Estates Com-misioners have been furnished with several cases?

I have communicated with them, and they tell me they are not aware of any cases in which the landlord removed the timber.

Is it not proposed in the Irish Land Bill to prevent the cutting of timber in cases of this kind, and have not the Irish Agricultural Department got powers in the matter at the present time?

There is not the least doubt that this removal of timber— whether by landlords or tenant purchasers—is a very intolerable injury to Ireland, and the land legislation to which the hon. Member refers proposes to deal with it in a very drastic manner. I do not know whether it will prove to be successful. The Agricultural Department are aware of the evil complained of.

Have not the Agricultural Department had powers given them to acquire timber for the Estates Commissioners?

Yes; and I think that in one or two instances they have exercised that power.

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant. of Ireland if he will state whether the Estates Commissioners are aware that on the Charles Waring estate the tenants of the townlands of Corodoagh, Drumeva, Pottle-brack, and Drumanespie signed purchase agreements in April, 1905, which were duly filed, undertaking to pay 3¾ per cent. interest in lieu of rent pending the vesting of their holdings; is he aware that the agent assured them that this vesting operation would take place in six months or so from the date of signing their purchase agreements; and, in view of the delay by the owners of this estate in making title, will he direct steps to be taken so as to secure to these tenants the undertaking entered into on the owners' behalf when the tenants were induced to sign their purchase agreements and have them compensated for the heavy extra payments they have had to make owing to the landlord's default.

The Estates Commissioners inform me that the purchase money of this estate cannot be advanced or the holdings vested in the purchasing tenants until the vendor's title to sell has been proved. The interest in lieu of rent payable by the tenants is in accordance with the terms of the purchase agreements signed by them. The Commissioners have no knowledge of the assurance alleged to have been given by the agent.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether, in view of the fact that the delay is caused entirely by the landlord, they will refuse to collect the moneys until the landlord makes good his promise?

The delay is occasioned, as I understand, by the unfortunate position of the vendor. That is not his fault, but his misfortune.

Is not the delay caused in many cases by the Estates Commissioners?

That question was discussed at great length the other day, and I cannot go into it now.

asked the Secretary of State for War whether it has been re- ported to him that yeomanry training in Lanarkshire had been debarred from entering on non-agricultural land during their recent manoeuvres; whether this has had an adverse effect upon their training; and, if so, whether he can take any steps to prevent a recurrence of such incidents?

No such Report has, as yet, reached the War Office.

Will the right hon. Gentleman make inquiries?

Certainly.

I wish to ask a question, of which I have given private notice to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and about which there seems to be a great difference of opinion, whether minerals are included in the word "land" in Clause 1 for the purpose of the payment of lucre ment Duty?

I understand the hon. Gentleman asks whether minerals are included in Clause I?

For payment of Increment Duty?

Certainly they are.

With regard to the alternative tax on royalties, may I ask whether it would be possible for these to be included in the word "land" without recommitting the clause?

The hon. Gentleman is referring to a statement made by my hon. Friend in answer to a question. With regard to ungotten minerals that comes later, and has nothing to do with Clause?