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Written Answers

Volume 15: debated on Thursday 31 March 1910

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Written Answers

Income Tax Deductions

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he can inform the House if any officers of the Navy, Army, or Civil Service have, during the financial year ending 31st March, had 1s. 2d. Income Tax deducted from their salaries under Schedule E; has a similar deduction been collected from all civilians charged under the same schedule; under what authority have these deductions been made from such incomes; and will any deductions so made be repaid to those whose salaries have been thus diminished?

As regards the first and second parts of the question, I may refer the Noble Lord to my replies of the 10th and 21st instant, to the hon. Members for Worcester and East Marylebone respectively. The deductions have been made under the authority of His Majesty's Government. It is not proposed to repay those duties which have been deducted.

Old Age Pensions (Evidence Of Age)

asked the Secretary to the Treasury whether he is aware that the Board of Inland Revenue in a circular, dated 3rd February, 1909, prescribed the Census Returns as the evidence to be required by pension officers in certain cases in Ireland, and, failing these, prescribed that the pension officer shall report to the committee that no evidence of age has been produced, and that the claim cannot properly be allowed; whether this Board had any, and, if so, what authority for prescribing such evidence or any evidence in regard to the question of age; if not, will he see that the circular referred to is withdrawn; and whether this circular was issued about the time when inspectors Visited Ireland and threatened pension officers that they would incur very grave responsibility if they did not appeal in every case against the decision of the local pension committee where the claimant's name could not be found on the Census Returns, even though the officer was otherwise satisfied the claimant was of the statutory age?

The directions contained in the circular referred to had reference to cases where no satisfactory documentary evidence at all of age could be produced by the claimant. In such cases the Census Returns constituted the only possible source from which the claimant could hope to obtain documentary evidence of age. Under the Second Schedule of the Statutory Regulations, in determining the age of a claimant any evidence which appears sufficient for the purpose may be accepted. Under paragraph 34 of the Statutory Regulations pension officers are instructed to observe and follow the instructions and directions of the Board. It is not proposed to withdraw the circular, and I can trace no foundation for the suggestion contained in the last part of the question.

Customs Annuity And Benevolent Fund

asked the Secretary to the Treasury if the superior officials in Civil Service departments are forbidden to exert influence on subordinates for the purpose of obtaining votes for candidates seeking election to quasi-departmental offices of emolument; and has the Treasury given official sanction to the action of a committee clerk (to the Board of Customs and Excise) who is issuing circulars asking support for one of the present Commissioners of Customs and Excise to secure his election as a director of the Customs Annuity and Benevolent Fund?

I understand that the question refers to the following matter. A member of the Customs Annuity and Benevolent Fund, who happens to be a committee clerk in the secretaries' office, has circularised his fellow members with a view to secure the re-election of a director who has held office for many years, and who is retiring from the public service at the end of this month. It is open to any member to circularise his fellow members in the same way. No doubt other members are doing so on behalf of other candidates, and nothing appears to have been done which is contrary to the rules of the service.

Civil Charges (Great Britain And Ireland)

asked the Chief Secretary if he will state what are the civil charges per head in Great Britain and in Ireland for 1909–10; and what were they in 1894?

The Civil Government charges per head in Great Britain and Ireland, apportioned as in the annual Returns of Revenue and Expenditure (England, Scotland, and Ireland), amount to:—

1894–5. Per head.1909–10 (approximately) Per head.
£s.d.£s.d.
Great Britain011701810
Ireland1002210
The Irish expenditure includes many charges, such as the cost of the Land Commission, the grant to the Congested Districts Board, and the cost of the Royal Irish Constabulary, for which there are no real equivalents in Great Britain.

Applications For Reinstatement (Tipperary)

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether the Estates Commissioners have taken any steps to reinstate James Kenny, who was evicted from a farm on the Going estate, at Earlshill, county Tipperary; whether the farm is occupied by a tenant at present; and whether the Estates Commissioners will put the compulsory powers in force in order to reinstate Kenny?

The Estates Commissioners have decided not to institute proceedings for the compulsory acquisition, under the Evicted Tenants Act, of Kenny's former holding of twenty-two acres, which is in the occupation of the owner. Kenny's name has been noted for consideration in the allotment of land to be acquired by the Commissioners.

asked what steps the Estates Commissioners have taken to reinstate Frank Moore, an evicted tenant on the Misses Cambie estate at Killorum, county Tipperary; and whether the Estates Commissioners will take steps to put Moore in possession of his farm in order to enable him to prepare it for a crop this season?

The Estates Commissioners are in negotiation for the purchase of this estate, including Moore's former holding. Until they acquire the lands they will not be in a position to reinstate him.

Untenanted Lands (County Waterford)

asked what are the names and areas of the various denominations of untenanted lands in the county Waterford which have been acquired by the Estates Commissioners since 1st January, 1909; and what are the names and areas of the various denominations of such lands in the county Waterford in reference to which negotiations are at present pending?

The following untenanted lands in county Waterford have been acquired by the Estates Commissioners since 1st January, 1909: Ballin-taylor Lower, 236 acres; Ballynabanoge North, 207 acres; Butlerstown South, 154 acres; Coolnasmear Lower, 95 acres; Garranburton, 364 acres; Janeville, 43 acres; Mapestown, 92 acres; Mountain-castle North, 105 acres; Orchardstown, 206 acres; Paddock, 93 acres; Tircullen Upper, 21 acres; Tircullen Lower, 59 acres; total, 1,680 acres. Proceedings for sale to the Estates Commissioners are pending in respect of the following untenanted lands in county Waterford: Ballinoad, 65 acres; Ballaird, 13 acres; Ballyhane, 131 acres; Clashnamrock, 44 acres; Coolnagappoge, 83 acres; Shana-coole, 52 acres; total, 388 acres.

Irish Congested Districts Board(Expenditure)

asked the amount of money spent by the Congested Districts Board between the date of the formation of the Board and the end of March, 1909, in the several counties of Ireland in which the Congested Districts Board has operated, placing opposite each county the total amount spent, without giving details, on marine works, on inland works, namely, roads, bridges, etc., on parish committee grants, on lands purchased by the Congested Districts Board in non-congested districts, on old and new holdings of all persons migrated to new holdings during the year ended 31st March, 1909, on improvement works and other heads on estates purchased by the Board up to 31st March, 1909, and on the purchase of estates and farms for enlargement of holdings and migration prior to the Act of 1903 and after the passing of the Act of 1903?

It would not be possible to present an account of the entire expenditure of the Congested Districts Board in the form suggested by the hon. Member without withdrawing the official staff of the Board from their ordinary duties. Full particulars of the Board's expenditure will be found in their Annual Reports and the Appendices thereto, which have been presented to Parliament.

John Egan's Holding, Aughapolleen, County Galway

asked the Chief Secretary whether he is aware that John Egan, of Aughapolleen, Oranmore, county Galway, got an increase of land to his holding of nine statute acres on 3rd April, 1909; that an agreement to purchase his holding, including the added land, was signed by him and that in November 1909 he paid one half-year's instalment of interest; whether he is aware that subsequently the Estates Commissioners sold to the Galway Rural Council two acres of the additional land given him for the sum of £45; whether Egan got any notification of the sale of this portion of his holding before it was handed over to another body; and, if not, what steps the Commissioners propose to take to compensate or provide an equivalent for the land this tenant was deprived of?

John Egan's original holding was fifteen acres, and the Estates Commissioners, on the division of the untenanted lands on the Knox estate, agreed to allot him an additional seven acres. The total purchase money which Egan agreed to pay for the original holding and the additional land was £320. Subsequently the Galway Rural District Council acquired two acres of the additional land under the Labourers Acts, the compensation money awarded there for being £45. This money has been applied in reducing Egan's price from £320 to £275, and his purchase annuity will be proportionately reduced. Egan paid the half-year's interest, as stated in the question, to 1st November last, and the conveyance vesting the land in the rural district council was executed on the 5th of that month Egan had communicated with the Estates Commissioners early in 1909, informing them of the proposal of the local authority to acquire these two acres, but was informed that the Commissioners could not interfere. He has been compensated by the reduction of his purchase annuity.

Ashbourne Act (Sinking Fund)

asked the Chief Secretary if he will state what is the amount of the Sinking Fund under the Ashbourne Act, and at what rate of interest was the Sinking Fund estimated; what is the rate of interest and Sinking Fund under the Balfour Act; and how many years axe tacked on to the forty-nine years in the Ashbourne Act for those who take the decadal reductions?

I would refer the hon. Member to the Return showing particulars as to the repayment of advances under the Land Purchase Acts, presented to Parliament (186 of 1902), which will, I hope, afford him all the information which he requires.

Castlecrevin Road, Drumgriffin, County Galway

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether the Congested Districts Board will reconsider their decision not to give a grant towards the repair of the Castlecrevin Road, Drumgriffin, county Galway, in view of the fact that this road, which,is very largely used, was never maintained by the grand jury or under the district council for repair, and in view also of the fact that the district council is now willing to contribute £50 towards the cost of the necessary work?

The application with regard to this road was considered by the Congested Districts Board with the greatest care and deliberation, and I cannot hold out any hope that they will reconsider their decision.

Fleet Engineer Officers

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether the Report of the Committee on the present and future position of the engineer officers of the Fleet is now ready, and, if so, when it will be issued to the Fleet; whether, in view of the report of the number of engine-room artificers required in the Japanese Fleet during the late war, it is intended to increase that rating in the ships of His Majesty's Fleet; whether the warrant officer rank granted to stokers is to be created with regard to some proportion as to the number of stokers in His Majesty's Fleet; and whether engine-room artificers may be allowed tropical pay the same as now allowed to stokers?

It is not proposed to issue to the Fleet a Report which was intended for the information and guidance of the Admiralty in dealing with questions arising out of the introduction of the new scheme of training for officers. Certain of the recommendations have already been carried out, and other matters are being legislated for as necessary. There is no rating in the Japanese Navy comparable with the engine-room artificer in the British Navy, but the number of mechanics borne in Japanese vessels is about the same as in His Majesty's ships. The only warrant rank contemplated for the stoker class is that of warrant mechanician, and promotions to this rank will be governed, as in the case of other warrant officers, by the requirements of the Service, and not by a proportion based on the total numbers of the stoker class. It is not considered necessary to extend to engine-room artificers the payment of the tropical pay which is granted to stokers and seamen under training in the stokehold when doing duty under steam in the tropics.

Warrant Officers (Royal Navy)

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether the Admiralty will make it possible for warrant officers to be allowed to retire with the rank of commander, on similar lines to that observed in the cases of warrant officers of the Royal Marines and the Army, who can retire with the rank of honorary lieutenant-colonels; whether he is in a position to make a definite statement as to creating more chief warrant officers amongst the gunners, boatswains, and carpenters of His Majesty's Fleet; whether he is aware that there has been no increase in the pay of the junior ranks of the carpenters for thirty years; and whether he would take this fact into consideration with regard to granting an increase?

It must be remembered that one of the qualifications for the rank of commander is three years' service in a ship of war at sea in the rank of lieutenant. The grant of the rank of lieutenant-colonel to a quartermaster is understood to be of very rare occurrence, and warrant officers promoted to the rank of lieutenant for gallantry can already attain the rank of commander. As regards the second part of the question, it is not intended to increase the present proportion of commissioned warrant officers for the ranks mentioned. With regard to the pay of carpenters, I am aware that the pay of the junior ranks has not been increased for some considerable time, but substantial improvements in the pay and position of the class as a whole have been made in recent years, and no further concession seems called for at present.

Petty Officers (Royal Navy)

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he can see his way to allow the time served by all petty officers to count as petty time for pension if they leave the service in a lower rank than petty officer; whether the Admiralty will consent to restore the gratuity for the good conduct medal of £20 to chief petty officers instead of £15 as at present paid; whether he will allow payment for good conduct badges to those ratings who receive the badges but are not paid for them (the ratings concerned are writers, engine-room artificers, electricians, and ships' stewards); and whether, having regard to the important duties of armourers, he will improve their pay and status?

The Regulations already provide that all time served in the rating of petty officer shall count as petty time for pension purposes in the circumstances indicated. In view of the exceptional advantages which chief petty officers now enjoy in the matter of pension, it is not considered that there is sufficient ground for conceding any further benefit under the head of good conduct gratuity. The question as to the grant of pay for good conduct badges to those ratings at present entitled to honorary badges has received the careful consideration of the Board of Admiralty, but it is not regarded as advisable to make the change proposed. It is not contemplated to increase the present scale of pay for chief armourers, armourers, armourers' mates, and armourer's crew, but the question of whether it is possible to improve their prospects of advancement is now under consideration.

Long Service Pensions (Royal Navy)

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is aware that men now serve for twenty-two years instead of twenty years for the minimum pension of 10d. a day; whether he intends to grant an increase in the minimum pension for the two extra years served; whether he is aware that a difference exists under the present system of promoting ships' steward's assistants to ships' stewards, owing to promotion being given at the different depots instead of by a general roster; and whether he is aware that at the present moment a junior assistant may be promoted to ship's steward over the head of a senior assistant, not on account of merit, but because the junior may belong to a depot where there is a vacancy?

The period of twenty-two years now requisite to qualify for a long service pension, as against twenty years previously necessary, was fixed upon the recommendation of a committee appointed in 1881 to inquire into the pensions of seamen and Marines, with particular reference to the large and growing charges for non-effective services. In the opinion of the Admiralty no case has been made out for a change. The system of promotion of the ship's steward branch is precisely the same as that in force for all classes of naval ratings which are advanced in vacancies, that is to say each port is responsible for the drafting, mobilisation, and advancement of the men belonging to the division. The question of reverting to the system in force prior to 1907 of a central roster for the smaller classes of naval ratings has been raised from time to time, but it has been held that the fact that in these classes promotion may at times be more rapid at one port than another is insufficient reason for departing from the general principle of the decentralised responsibility of each port for meeting its own requirements which is essential for efficiency in drafting and mobilisation.

Sick Berth Staff (Royal Navy)

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he can see his way to make an improvement in the pay and status of the sick berth staff of the Royal Navy; whether he is aware that under the present regulations it is almost impossible for ship's stewards to get the progressive pay to which they are entitled, and whether he can see his way to remedy this state of affairs; whether he is aware that stoker mechanics are not allowed increase of pay on promotion to leading stoker, although the latter rating is a senior and far more responsible position; and whether he is aware that since the abolition of the second-class petty officer rate leading rates have more responsibility and less pension?

The position of the sick berth staff in the matter of pay and advancement was one of the subjects dealt with by the Committee on the Naval Medical Service, whose recommendations are now under the consideration of the Admiralty. The highest rate of substan- tive pay possible in the ship's steward class is 7s. a day for ship's stewards who have completed twenty years' service as chief petty officer. This rate can therefore only be obtained by ship's stewards who have been permitted for special reasons to re-engage after completing time for pension for special reasons. It is not considered that there is any ground for granting this rate of pay, except in such cases. The scheme for a progressive system of training for the stoker class which was introduced after most careful consideration of the engine-room requirements of the future, involved the eventual absorption of the non-substantive rating of stoker-mechanic in the substantive rating of leading stoker. Although no rise of pay was provided for a stoker mechanic on promotion to leading stoker, an increase was introduced in the grade after three years' service, and it is considered that the prospect of advancement opened up by the new scheme sufficiently compensates for any increase of responsibility in the immediate present. The abolition of the second-class petty officer rate was a well-considered step, adopted on the recommendation of a Committee. Doubtless extra responsibility now devolves on the leading rates, but their numbers were increased, and they were granted a progressive rate of pay after three years' service. It is not considered that any hardship is involved in this respect. As regards pension, it does not follow that the abolition of the second-class petty officer rate has resulted in the men having less pension. The provision in Order in Council of 12th August, 1907, for "men of leading seaman rank of all classes to be allowed to count time exceeding three years in that rank for increase of pension as authorised for petty officers second class," was inserted with the view of the preservation of former pension privileges, the period of three years being taken as representing the average time served in the leading rate prior to advancement to petty officers second class under the old regulations.

Royal Fleet Reserve

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is aware that artisan ratings, such as blacksmiths and plumbers, owing to their shortage of numbers in a ship, will be urgently needed m time of war; whether he can see his way to allow all artisan ratings to join the Royal Fleet Reserve; whether he can see his way to restore properly qualified writers to the position of obtaining the chief petty officer's rate in ten years, as was the regulation before 1900, instead of twelve years as at present; whether he is aware that the following are the only ratings which cannot achieve the position of chief petty officer, namely, blacksmiths, plumbers, painters, and coopers; and whether he can see his way to remove this state of affairs?

The assumption that there is a shortage of blacksmiths and plumbers in ships cannot be accepted. The supply of these ratings is considered sufficient for war needs. The Royal Fleet Reserve was instituted for the provision of a ready supply of those classes who will be most required in war, namely, seamen, stokers, and marines, and for the maintenance of their efficiency and knowledge of the duties for which they will be required. It is not considered that the requirements of artisan ratings in this respect are sufficient to call for the creation of another class of the Royal Fleet Reserve, or to warrant the expense of such a step. The answer to the third part of the question is in the negative. The present system of advancement and pay of the writer class was adopted by the Admiralty in 1900 after lengthy consideration of several alternative schemes. Although the new regulations deferred the attainment of the chief writer rating for two years, this was compensated for by an extra 6d. a day after five years' service in that rating and by the creation of a new intermediate tank of first writer attainable two years earlier than the rank of chief writer under the old system. When the new system was introduced some men in their first period of engagement would have been adversely affected in regard to pay up to the date of completion of that engagement, but in order to remove any grounds for complaint, all such cases were specially dealt with so as to make the men's emoluments during the first engagement equal to what they would have received under the old system. All men in their second or subsequent engagements at the time of the change benefited by the new system. The scale of pay for writers was recently reviewed in connection with the introduction of warrant rank for the class, and no change was considered necessary. With regard to the last part of the question, it is not at present in contemplation to introduce a chief petty officer grade for the classes mentioned.

Hospital Stoppages (Royal Navy)

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is aware that hospital stoppages press very hardly on men who have had to go sick in consequence of their service to the State; and whether these men can be placed in the same position as the officers, who pay no hospital stoppages?

In the case of illness due to wounds or injuries sustained while on duty the pay of officers and men is governed by the same regulations, under which full pay is allowed generally until cured or pensioned. In cases of ordinary sickness, petty officers and men sent to hospital or sick quarters at home are allowed full pay for thirty days and pay, less hospital stoppages (usually 8d. or 10d. a day), for a further sixty-one days, unless invalided from the Service. When falling sick abroad, full pay is allowed without deduction until arrival in England, and is then continued under the same limits and conditions as in the case of men falling sick at home. It is true that in cases of ordinary illness not due to the Service hospital stoppages are not recovered from officers on full pay, but the regulations governing their pay generally are quite different from those in force for men, and it is considered that no useful comparison can be drawn between them. The Board have recently given the subject of hospital stoppages their careful consideration, and they regret they do not see their way to introducing any further modification in the existing system.

Greenwich Hospital Age Pensions

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether the Admiralty are aware of the number of men entitled to the Greenwich age pension who are at present anxiously awaiting payment of this pension; and if he will state what steps he intends to take to meet this position?

There are no men entitled to Greenwich Hospital age pensions. The Admiralty is, of course, aware that there is a large number of pensioners eligible for age pensions whose applications cannot be complied with, but every step has been taken to distribute these pensions as fully as the available funds will permit.

Dredgermen (Royal Dockyards)

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is aware that the dredgermen, looking to their work and the time they are employed, are the worst paid men in the dockyard; whether he will inquire into their case with a view of increasing their pay and position; whether the Admiralty have received the petition relative to the rates of pay of skilled and unskilled workmen in His Majesty's dockyards in comparison with private dockyards; and, if so, when a reply may be expected: whether the Admiralty have received a petition from the hired workmen in the dockyards with regard to establishment; and, if so, whether they will formulate a reply; what steps he intends to take with regard to the establishment in the dockyards; and if he intends to make it common to all departments employed?

Petitions which have been received from dredgermen are now under consideration. Petitions relative to the rates of pay of skilled and unskilled workmen in His Majesty's dockyards are received by the Admiralty every year. As stated in reply to a question from the hon. Member for Dundee on 1st March, and repeated in reply to a question from the hon. Member for Chatham on 10th March, it is hoped that it will be possible to issue the answers to the petitions received last year about the middle of April. The petition presented in the name of the hired workmen will be answered at the same time as the other petitions. Steps are being taken in connection with the resumption of the establishment, but it is undesirable to state at present what they are.

Indian Government Studs

asked the Under-Secretary of State for India whether he will consider the desirability of reprinting the Blue Books containing the evidence and Reports of the Royal Commission which led to the summary abolition of the stud system of horse supply throughout India over thirty years ago, and thus render these records accessible to those Members of this House who may desire to inform themselves in the question of horse supply?

The Indian Government studs were abolished as the result of the Report, not of a Royal Commission, but of a Committee appointed by the Government of India in 1868. This Re- port has never been published, but correspondence on the subject was presented to Parliament in a Return dated 11th September, 1873, No. 69. The Secretary of State does not think that circumstances call for the presentation of further papers after the lapse of so many years.

Infant Mortality (Report)

asked the President of the Local Government Board if he can state when the Blue Book on Infant Mortality, promised by him some time ago, will be published?

Some progress has been made with the Report referred to, but I am not yet in a position to fix a date for its publication.

Postmen's Wages (Southport District)

asked the Postmaster-General whether, in view of the fact that the wages of postmen in the Southport district having been reduced from the previous maximum of 26s. per week to that of 25s. per week, are now lower by 5s. per week than the maximum of postmen at Waterloo, a smaller district in the same Parliamentary Division, and considering the fact that the cost of living is at least AS high as that in the latter district, as also that the population of Southport and Birkdale is rapidly increasing, he will see his way to amending this so that the maximum rate should, if possible, be equal to that of postmen in the Waterloo district, or, at the least, be increased to the former maximum of 26s. per week?

I beg to refer the hon. Member to the Parliamentary Return, "Post Office (Changes in Wages, etc.)," which contains full explanation of the application of the principles of classification recommended by the Parliamentary Committee on Post Office Servants. In the case of Southport the volume of work is represented by 427 units and the cost of Jiving by the index number 97, the normal being 100. Southport therefore falls naturally into Class III., the range of which in units is from 240 to 800, and the maximum of the postmen's scale is 25s. a week, as recommended by the Parliamentary Committee. This maximum applies only to new entrants. Existing, postmen retain their old maximum and obtain their share of all the other benefits derived from the recommendations of the Parliamentary Committee, namely, improvements in stripes, Bank Holiday privileges, allowance for night duty. The Waterloo district is served by postmen attached to the Liverpool office, which is included in Class I., because the units of work number over 7,000, the cost of living index number being 97. There is no scale with a maximum of 26s., and I regret that I am not able to modify the scale now-proper to Southport.

Finance Bill (1909)

asked the Prime Minister whether, in regard to his declaration in the House of Commons on 2nd December last that the first act of the new House of Commons would be to re-impose all the taxes and duties in the Finance Bill of 1909, and to validate all past collections and deductions, he meant thereby to convey that this would be the first great Act of Parliament?

I have nothing-to add to previous statements which I have made on this subject.