asked whether, in view of the possibility that our withdrawal in Somaliland might have an effect on our prestige and position in Egypt, the British Agent at Cairo was consulted before our retirement was decided upon?

His Majesty's Government gave the most careful consideration to the points raised in the hon. Gentleman's question before deciding on their policy.

Is it a fact that four or five years ago, when the question of an alteration in the administration of Somaliland was under consideration, Lord Cromer was consulted as to the effect it would have on our position in Egypt?

I understand that the whole question may be raised in the course of debate to-day, and I shall be very glad to state the views of His Majesty's late advisers on the question and the general attitude of the late Government.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, whether he had any official information to the effect that recruiting in Angola had again commenced; if he could state whether any precautions were being taken to prevent the abuses which formerly existed being repeated; and if he would publish the latest reports from His Majesty's Consul at Loanda on the present conditions of recruiting.

On 18th March last His Majesty's Consul at Loanda reported that recruiting had been sanctioned, but that no shipments were to take place for the present. With regard to the second part of the question I would refer the hon. Member to the answer given to the hon. Member for Gravesend on 5th April, and I would add that in the despatch above referred to His Majesty's Consul at Loanda states that the Governor-General of Portuguese West Africa has been strictly enjoined to deal with any acts of irregularity which may occur in the working of the new regulations. With regard to the third part of the question, I do not propose to publish any papers at present on this subject, but when His Majesty's Consul is in a position to report on the manner in which the regulations are being enforced, I will consider whether papers can usefully be laid.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether his attention had been called to the reports of slavery in Mexico; and whether he would instruct His Majesty's Minister in that country to make inquiry into this matter?

No reports on the subject have reached me. If the hon. Member will furnish me with particulars, I will consider whether it is desirable to call for a report from His Majesty's Representative in Mexico.

Have His Majesty's Government any power of enforcing upon Mexico their views in this matter?

They can make representations.

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether Article 24 of the Treaty of London, declaring docks and their component parts to be conditional contraband, applied to granite; and, if it did not, would he state what were the component parts of docks to which the article referred?

The first part of the hon. Member's question has already twice been answered, and I have nothing to add on this point to what I said in reply to his questions on 9th March and 7th April. As regards the second part or the present question, I may mention lock gates and the machinery for working them as constituting "parts of docks."

Is it not a fact that the essential component parts of docks are timber, cement, granite, and granite in particular; and why should gates be the only component part subject to contraband?

That precise question has been twice answered in reply to questions by the hon. Gentleman.

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether his attention has been directed to an award of £150 for malicious injury to property, awarded by Judge Murphy to Mr. M'Garry, Irishtown, on Tuesday, 12th April, at Ballinrobe quarter sessions; and whether any arrests have been made in connection with this offence?

The out-offices and property for which compensation was awarded were burnt by night in January last. No arrests have been made in connection with the case.

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether any arrests have been made in connection with an explosion which occurred on 16th January last at Sandyhill, causing damage to the property of Mr. W. O'Brien, for which £15 compensation was awarded on Thursday, 14th April, by the Recorder of Cork; and what steps, if any, are being taken to discover the perpetrators of this offence?

The police are doing all they can to discover the persons who committed this offence, but they have not yet been able to make any arrests.

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland if he will state the reason why the old age pension of Bernard O'Donnell, of Tyrcur, parish of Cappagh, county Tyrone, which he received for twelve months, has been taken away from him; and if directions will be given to the Local Government Board to return to the said Bernard O'Donnell the original indenture of his apprenticeship, which he forwarded for their inspection, and which has not yet been returned, although repeatedly asked for?

Bernard O'Donnell's age was given as seven years in the Census Returns of 1851, and his name did not appear among his parents' family in the Returns of 1841. The Local Government Board decided that he had not yet attained the statutory age. The indenture referred to in the last paragraph of the question has been returned to the claimant.

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he is aware that the sheriff has executed a decree against Garrett Barry, of Ballinaw, Herbertstown, county Limerick, tenant on the Tuthill property, because he refused to pay what is known as the dead half-gale, which is due for the past fifty years; whether he is aware that this action is due to the fact that Mr. Barry has refused to pay what he considers an exorbitant price for his land; and, having regard to the circumstances of the case and the fact that Barry has twelve children, he will ask the Commissioners to intervene and try to bring about an amicable settlement, and thus prevent the discontent and trouble which will arise if Captain Tuthill, Esker, Lucan, county Dublin, proceeds any further on these lines?

I have nothing to add to my reply to the question on the same subject asked by the hon. Member on the 20th instant.

asked the Chief Secretary if he will explain why the Estates Commissioners have excluded Peter Finnan, of Dunoula, Templeboy, county Sligo, from the number of purchasing tenants on the Hillas estate; whether all the other tenants have purchased through the Estates Commissioners; and whether his case will be dealt with by the Estates Commissioners or the Congested Districts Board?

The Estates Commissioners inform me that they have not excluded this man from the sale. They have made an advance of £40 to him for the purchase of his holding.

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland, whether he is aware that the tenants on the late Conway estate, Mullies, county Leitrim, have petitioned the Congested Districts Board to purchase that estate; and whether, having regard to the fact that the estate is in court, and a number of decrees for arrears of rent and for possession are now pending, the Congested Districts Board would intervene with a view of purchasing the estate, and thus keeping the tenants in their homes and enlarging their holdings?

The Congested Districts Board have received the petition referred to, but it must be clearly understood that they have no power to intervene to stay proceedings for the recovery of rent due.

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he is aware that Mr. Boyers, chemist, of Sligo, has for the past ten years held the contract for the supply of medicines, etc., to the Tubbercurry Union, county Sligo; whether, owing to the satisfaction given by Mr. Boyers during that period, the guardians have unanimously accepted his tender for the current year, though a shade higher than that of another strange firm; and, if so, whether he can explain why the Local Government Board refuses its sanction to the action of the guardians in this matter?

I understand that Mr. Boyers, of Sligo, has been medicine contractor to the Tubbercurry Union for several years, and was given the contract for the present year by the guardians on the grounds stated in the question, although more favourable terms were offered by a Dublin firm. The latter firm holds drug contracts throughout Ireland, and carries them out with general satisfaction, and, as its tender was the lowest, the Local Government Board considered it should be accepted. The Dublin firm's tender for medical and surgical appliances was also the lowest, and was accepted by the board of guardians.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether, according to a recent judgment of the Lord Chief Baron in the case of the Richmond Asylum, the guardians are entitled to exercise discretion in regard to these matters?

As part of the money for these drugs is paid for by the public, it is very desirable that the Local Government Board should exercise control over the contracts that are accepted, and although preference is always given to drugs manufactured in Ireland, in this case the hon. Gentleman will note that the chief competition was between Dublin and the local firm.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that what influenced the guardians in this particular matter was that in cases of emergency medicines can be got in Sligo in two hours that it would take two days to bring from Dublin? The guardians acted for the convenience of the sick poor in the institution. Under these circumstances, may I inquire whether the right hon. Gentleman can see that the Local Government Board cannot give the guardians discretion in matters of this kind, and whether he will see that the present matter is reconsidered?

I am quite willing to consider this or any other case. But the Local Government Board have found it most necessary to exercise a very strict revision over contracts that have been accepted when the money is paid out of the public purse. They really have to exercise some control over the acceptance of contracts in matters of this sort, but I will look into it.

This tender was only a shade higher than the other.

Will the right hon. Gentleman draw the attention of the Local Government Board in Ireland to the fact that a decision was given in the English Law Courts a few months ago in the case of the Westminster Corporation to the effect that they are entitled to give preference to a local firm even at higher prices?

I am quite aware that that is so. But that does not relieve the Local Government Board from protecting public money as far as they possibly can.

Why not apply the same to England?

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he is aware that defects exist in the Town Tenants Act, and whether he will introduce a Bill this Session for the purpose of removing them?

I have received resolutions from time to time in reference to the Town Tenants Act, but I am not aware of any general demand for its amendment, and I do not contemplate further legislation on the subject.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for India whether he is now in a position to state under what law a warrant has been issued against Arabindo Ghose; whether proceedings are to be taken against the printer of his paper as well as against himself; and whether copies of the offending article can be placed in the Library for the information of Members?

I have already informed the hon. Member that proceedings are being taken against Mr. Ghose by the Government of Bengal, under Section 124 (a) of the Indian Penal Code. We have no knowledge of any proceedings against the printer of his paper. The full text of the subject-matter of the prosecution has not yet reached the Secretary of State. To act on my hon. Friend's suggestion would not only mean a departure from the practice of avoiding the advertisement of literature alleged to be seditious, but would almost inevitably lead to a result which, I am sure, my hon. Friend would be the first to deprecate—the prejudging, one way or the other, of a case that must be decided in an Indian court of law.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for India whether he is aware that the North British Locomotive Combine of Glasgow, who are contractors to the Government of India, do not observe the Fair Wages Clause in the payment of the fitters, blacksmiths, boiler-makers, and other skilled workmen in their employ; and whether he will have the matter investigated?

The Secretary of State is not aware of the fact alleged by my hon. Friend. He will have the matter investigated through the Fair Wages Advisory Committee.

asked whether the Secretary of State has information to the effect that the King of the Belgians has made a large grant of money for the investigation of sleeping sickness and other tropical diseases?

I understand that the King of the Belgians has granted one million francs for the Service de l'Hygiène in the Congo, to be specially devoted to combating sleeping sickness, and half a million francs for the construction of native hospitals.

May I express the hope that in future discussions in this House this will be counted unto the King and his people for righteousness?

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies if he can state the number of men employed in each department on the Ceylon Government Railways for the year ending 31st December, 1909; the number of cases where men have been fined; the date and nature of the offence; the amount of fine imposed; the name of the person fined, and the department and grade then serving in; the number of cases in each department where the stipulated annual increment has been stopped or withheld for any period and the reason for so doing; and whether he can grant a Return giving those particulars?

I will ascertain and communicate to my hon. Friend the number of men employed in the various departments of the railway. The figures are not at present available. The Secretary of State will inquire whether information on the other points can be readily supplied.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that condensed milk manufactured by the Wilts United Dairies Company, diploma brand, which is habitually refused by the Board of Trade inspectors when tendered for victualling British merchant service ships, has been placed by the Canadian Government as first among nineteen brands of condensed milk tested from casual samples purchased by Government inspectors in Canada, including Nestlé's, which on analysis comes tenth on the list; and whether, in view of this, he will institute an impartial inquiry into the relative merits of the condensed milk manufactured by the Wilts United Dairies Company and Messrs. Nestlé, the Anglo-Swiss, and other foreign makers, both as manufactured and after undergoing the test of a long tropical voyage?

The Board of Trade received in September last an advertisement from the Wilts United Dairies Company containing an extract from the report to which the question refers; but I am advised that the tests in question have no bearing upon the supply of milk for ships' stores in this country. The inspectors of the Board of Trade are instructed to require all stores submitted to them to attain a certain standard; they are not concerned with the relative merits of different brands.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether his attention has been called to the difficulties and disadvantages imposed on the milk industry carried on by the Wilts United Dairies Company owing to the refusal of the Board's inspectors to pass their product, namely, condensed milk, diploma brand, for use on ships of the merchant service; and, as the action of the Board of Trade officials prevents the Wilts Dairies Company from doing any shipping trade and also prejudices their trade in the home market, and the condensed milk of the foreign combine, which includes Messrs. Nestlé and the Anglo-Swiss Companies, is passed simply on label, and a test of the comparative keeping qualities of the milk produced by the Wilts United Dairies Company and the foreign combine under fair and equal conditions has been refused, and as in effect the victualling of the British merchantmen, so far as milk is concerned, is thereby left entirely in the hands of the above-mentioned combine, whether he will issue such instructions as are necessary to his Department to secure fair and equal opportunities for British produce?

I am aware that the condensed milk submitted by the company named has on more than one occasion failed to reach the standard required by the Board of Trade for ships' stores. A test of that milk under practical conditions at sea has been proposed by the Board, but declined by the company, except on conditions which it was impossible to accept. The Board of Trade inspectors are instructed to judge all stores submitted to them by their quality at the time of inspection, and not by their brand or origin.

May I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman will make special inquiries in order to satisfy himself that there is no bias, prejudice, or any other motive on the part of any Board of Trade inspectors which would operate to the disadvantage of the company I have named?

I am fully satisfied on that. No outside interest is served in regard to these matters. The best possible consideration is given with a desire to be fair between these various companies. In this case samples of milk that have to be tested were not up to the standard.

Can the right hon. Gentleman assure the House that the precautions in this matter are directed entirely to the well-being of the sailors on the ship, and not for any traders' benefit?

Certainly.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether the first and second Fiscal Blue Books were signed by the Comptroller-General of the Statistical Department, and countersigned by the Secretary and President of the Board of Trade; whether this is the usual practice of the Board of Trade in connection with documents of this character; and whether the abandonment of this practice in the third Fiscal Blue Book (Cd. 4954) is to be regarded as indicating that these officials have not assumed the same personal responsibility for its contents as for its predecessors?

The signatures attached to the earlier volumes mentioned in the question are not correctly specified, but the point is immaterial. There is absolutely no foundation for the suggestion conveyed in the last part of the question. There has been hitherto no fixed practice in the Board of Trade as regards the signatures attached to documents presented by them to Parliament, but, generally speaking, Blue Books containing reports and memoranda, have been more fully signed than those merely consisting of tabular matter, and it has been not uncommon to publish the latter kind of Return without any signature, especially if issued in continuation of previous publications. The Board of Trade take full responsibility for the publication of their official documents.

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he would state the number of appointments made by the Board of Trade in connection with Labour Exchanges in Ireland, the number of applicants and appointments of residents in the province of Connaught, and the number of vacancies still existing?

I have been asked by my right hon. Friend to answer this question. Thirty-three appointments have been made in connection with the Labour Exchanges in Ireland, and up to the present time none of these Exchanges are in the province of Connaught. I am not in a position to state how many of the applicants for posts were resident in Connaught. Three minor clerical appointments are still vacant in the Exchanges open at the present time in Ireland.

asked the Under-Secretary for the Colonies whether his attention has been called to the recent amendment in the regulations governing the emigration of assisted persons to Canada; whether he is aware that the effect of the amendment will practically nullify the emigration operations of the Central (Unemployed) Body for London, so far as Canada is concerned, entail hardship on intending emigrants to the Dominion who have accepted assistance from public funds, prevent any assisted emigrant from landing in Canada not certified as suited for, willing to accept, and for whom positions at farm work have been guaranteed from Canada, and, in cases where the emigrant is assisted, make it extremely difficult for a wife to join her husband, a brother or sister a brother, a father or a mother a son or daughter, unless the persons emigrating come within the special category, and are going to join relatives already on a Canadian farm; and whether, in the circumstances, he will consider the advisability of approaching the Dominion authorities with a view to obtain some modification in the new regulations, and advise His Majesty's Government to appoint a Royal Commission to inquire into the subject of emigration from the United Kingdom to the oversea dominions and the restrictions placed thereon?

My attention has been called to the regulation in question. I am sure that its effect on the operations of emigration societies and similar bodies will be considerable. The question of what classes of immigrants are to be permitted to enter Canada is primarily one for the Canadian Government, and the Secretary of State will forward to that Government for their friendly consideration any representations which may be made to him as to the effect of the new regulations, but as at present advised he is not prepared to recommend the appointment of a Royal Commission on emigration.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether the new Regulations will be applied to emigrants now upon the high seas, and whether, seeing that intending emigrants have made their preparations to the extent in some cases of selling up their homes for the purpose of settling in Canada, he does not consider some notice ought to have been given by the Dominion Government, and whether he does not think the time has arrived for taking advantage of the words of the Resolution passed at the last Imperial Conference for holding a subsidiary Conference on Emigration and Immigration among the representatives of the Governments concerned?

I do not think I could be asked to reply to a matter of such very great importance and delicacy as between this country and the Dominion of Canada without notice. I have no doubt the Dominion Government will endeavour to act with humanity, and in the meantime we will make such representation as seems proper to the Canadian Government on the subject.

Is there any guarantee from the Canadian Government that continuous employment will be given to the emigrants?

That raises quite a different question.

Do the new regulations affect those that are on the seas now?

I presume they would apply from inquiries I have been able to make, but I would not commit myself. It was in connection with that that I said I was sure the Canadian Government would act with every humanity.

asked the Secretary to the Treasury whether he is aware that Denis Keaney, Meehil, of Kiltyclagher, county Leitrim, was deprived of his old age pension; and whether, having regard to the fact that his name was found in the Census of 1841, being then over one year old, and being now a poor man, he would recommend that his pension be restored?

The Local Government Board decided on the 11th instant on appeal to them on a question of age of Denis Keaney that he attained the age of seventy on the 1st instant. The amount of pension drawn prior to his attaining the statutory age is a debt to the Crown under Section 9 (2) of the Old Age Pensions Act, and in the absence of direct repayment the debt is being liquidated by suspension of the current pension until the account is adjusted.

Is the House to understand that the Treasury maintain the right to retain the amount due to the pensioners in order to recoup themselves for money already advanced?

Yes, Sir, that is so.

Under what Section of the Act?

Under the general law.

asked the Secretary to the Treasury whether the arrears of pension from 1st January, 1909, to 1st July, 1909, at the rate of 5s. per week, will be paid to Mrs. Rouse, of Carus, county Sligo?

I have not yet got the figures. If the hon. Member will put an unstarred question I could perhaps send him the answer during the Recess.

asked the Secretary to the Treasury if he will state the approximate cost to date of the Welsh Church Commission; and when the publication of the evidence and of the Report of the Commission may be expected?

The cost of this Commission to date, excluding expenditure by the Stationery Office, details of which are not yet available, amounts to approximately £7,600. As regards the second part of the question, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given yesterday by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department to the hon. Member for Oswestry, in which he stated that he was in communication with the Chairman of the Commission on this point.

Is it the intention of the Government to communicate with the Commission on this subject? [HON. MEMBERS: "Speak up."]

As I have said already, the Home Secretary is in communication with the Chairman of the Commission upon the point.

asked the Secretary to the Treasury whether he will provide in the Library a volume of the OFFICIAL REPORT for each Session dealing with the affairs of Scotland, in view of the fact that such a volume is already provided dealing respectively with the affairs of Ireland, of the Navy, and of the Army?

I will consider the suggestion, in consultation with the Secretary for Scotland.

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell me when he will be able to deal with it?

When the Secretary for Scotland gives me an answer.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Agriculture whether the attention of his Department has been called to the advance recently made in the United States and in Canada as regards lobster culture; whether any actual trial has been made under his Department of the methods used on the other side of the Atlantic with conspicuous success; whether the Government will make inquiry by Royal Commission or otherwise into the depletion of this industry on the British and Irish coasts; and whether such Commission, if appointed, will take evidence in the United States and Canada?

The Board are aware of the fact that the lobster industry in England and Wales is not in a satisfactory condition, and investigations in the matter are being made with the co-operation of local fisheries committees. A full Report on the subject will be issued. The experiments now being carried out in America are being carefully watched, but no further action can be taken until full information of the results obtained is available.

asked if the attention of the Board of Agriculture has been drawn to the fraudulent sale of Dutch cheese as Cheshire; and what action, if any, the Board propose to take to stop this fraud?

The Board have received reports, but they have not hitherto obtained any evidence of the fraudulent sale of Dutch cheese as Cheshire. The matter will be kept in view, and any information which is likely to be of assistance will be welcomed.

Was not the right hon. Gentleman's attention called about this time last year to the fact that prosecutions had taken place?

I have no recollection of that.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he has yet considered the Report of the Departmental Committee appointed to inquire into the law relating to coroners and coroners' inquests, and into the practice in coroners' courts; and whether he proposes to take any action thereon?

I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer which I gave yesterday to the hon. Member for St. Pancras (West), and which is printed with to-day's Votes.

asked the Prime Minister what compensation the Government propose to give those holders of licences whose houses will be closed owing to the imposition of the new Licensing Duties of the Budget, and who consequently will be deprived of the means of livelihood for themselves and their families?

I do not believe that any houses will be closed in consequence of the new Licence Duties, except those which, in the interests both of the public and of the licensee, should have been closed long ago and have been kept alive solely for purposes of obtaining compensation.

Are we to understand that the members of the licensed trade are to be treated worse than the slave-owners were in 1837?

Will the right hon. Gentleman take into consideration the case of those holders of licences who have been compelled to pay to the Compensation Fund since 1904, and who, in the event of their houses being closed in consequence of the enormous increase of the Licence Duties, will lose the entire amount they contributed to the Compensation Fund?

That is a question which the hon. Member might put down. I do not think any house will be closed except houses which are kept open —and there are many of them—purely for the purposes of obtaining compensation, but which ought to have been closed long ago.

If such cases as those mentioned in the question are brought to the notice of the right hon. Gentleman, will he give them consideration?

As the hon. Member knows, I am ready to give consideration to any cases brought to my notice, and if such cases are brought before me I will give attention to them.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the opinion expressed by the Postmaster-General on this subject, in which he said: "I do not deny—"

I cannot allow one Minister to be quoted against another.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will state on what date did the Government inspectors last visit the Hamstead colliery; and will he state what was the nature of their Report?

The mine was visited by an inspector on the 22nd instant in connection with an accident from fall of coal; on the 21st January for the special purpose of obtaining certain information required by the Department in regard to temperature; and on 6th December and 15th November for purposes of general inspection. Reports made by the inspectors are treated as confidential, but I may say the condition of the mine was found to be satisfactory.

asked whether the regulations for motors in the Metropolitan area include penalties for the emission of thick smoke from the exhaust; and, if so, whether the police have instructions to carry out this regulation rigorously, or to neglect it altogether?

Outside the Royal parks, there is no power under existing statutes to make regulations imposing penalties in such a case. The Metropolitan police can and do take disciplinary action in the case of motor cabs and motor omnibuses discharging smoke from the exhaust, since a condition of their licensing is that "the lubrication of the engine or the carburation of the working mixture must be so controlled that smoke it not projected with the exhaust, or from any other part." But, in the present state of the law, legal proceedings cannot successfully be taken against drivers of motor vehicles, where the emission of smoke is due to any temporary or accidental cause, which I understand is practically always the case.

Does the right hon. Gentleman not think that the case is ripe for legislation?

There are many cases ripe for legislation, but I do not think I am in a position to promise any.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether his attention has been called to the reasons given by Rear-Admiral Francis T. Bowles, United States Navy, retired, in a letter to Senator Frye, of Maine, for the cost of constructing armoured ships in the United States of America being lower than in this country; whether the "Dreadnought," 1905, cost 447 dols. per ton and the "Michigan," two ships, 1905–6, cost 344.5 dols. per ton in both cases, exclusive of guns, torpedoes, and ordinary outfit; and, if so, to what he attributes the cost of the construction of armoured ships in recent years being from 13 per cent. to 23 per cent. lower in the United States of America, a protected country, than in England under Free Trade?

There is no official information as to the cost per ton of the "Michigan" class as completed. For a correct comparison it would be necessary to have detailed information as to the exact portions of the vessels and their equipment that are included in the computation. I must point out to the hon. Gentleman that in the comparison of the cost of battleships there is no uniform standard of quality; on the other hand, with regard to the open competition between nations for the building of mercantile ships in which presumably a certain standard of excellence would be demanded, the United States officer in the letter quoted by the hon. Gentleman remarked that the United States firms cannot compete with British and German firms in the construction of commercial vessels.

Does the right hon. Gentleman say that the standard of finish and equipment in the United States Navy represents 25 per cent. less efficiency than our own?

No, Sir. I have no knowledge of the standard of finish in the United States Navy, and I am not able to make any comparison as to the quality of their ships with ours.

As America is a Protectionist country, may we take it that the wages paid there are lower than we pay in this country?

I know the cost of construction of mercantile ships is higher in the United States than in this country; but in relation to battleships I am not able to make any comparison.

asked what information, drawings, and dock plans are supplied to the foreign contractor supplying granite for Rosyth; and, if so, what steps are taken to prevent private information about the Admiralty docks from disclosure to foreigners?

The Admiralty have not supplied any information, drawings, or dock plans to the foreign contractor supplying the granite for Rosyth. He has to obtain all the information required from the contractor for the works, who in this case has supplied him with a rough key plan, showing where certain blocks or stones have to be placed, but no Admiralty drawings have been sent by the contractor for the works to the granite merchant.

Does the right hon. Gentleman not consider this is an infringement of the whole policy of secrecy as far as the Admiralty is concerned?

If the hon. Member had listened to my reply he would have known that there has been no divulgence of any Admiralty plans or any secret matter.

asked the Lord Advocate whether clerks to the justices of the peace in Scotland are instructed by his Department to adopt any system in forming a rota of the justices; are they called alphabetically to occupy the bench, or in rotation, or as seemeth good unto the clerks themselves?

I have nothing to add to the answer which I gave to my hon. Friend on the 4th May, 1909, to the effect that the regulation of justice of the peace courts is in the hands of the justices themselves, and that no complaints have been received.

asked the right hon. Gentleman whether land in Sutherlandshire is being cleared of sheep for the purpose of adding the ground to deer forests; and, if so, whether the Government will promote legislation this Session to put a stop to land, which is capable of producing food for the people, being used for mere sporting purposes?

I have no information on the subject referred to by my hon. Friend. The Government is not in a position to deal with such questions by way of legislation at present.

Will my right hon. Friend make inquiries as to what is going on in the direction referred to at a place called Gordonbush Farm, Borrobol, Kinbrace.

Yes, I will.

In view of the extravagant misstatements on this subject made last night, will the right hon. Gentleman endeavour to publish something like the facts for the information of the public before any legislation is undertaken?

The report gives an accurate statement of the facts.

asked the right hon. Gentleman whether his attention has been called to the fact that the Stirling county licensing court failed to hold its statutory meeting owing to the absence of a quorum, notwithstanding that a large amount of licensing business required to be transacted; and, if so, seeing that there is no provision in the Licensing Act to meet such a contingency, whether he will take into consideration the advisability of taking such steps as he may deem necessary to provide that in large and populous counties more justices of the peace should be called to the licensing court and made more representative of the different parishes?

I understand that the number of members who attended on the occasion referred to was insufficient to form a quorum, in accordance with the provisions of the Licensing (Scotland) Act, 1903. The licensing court is constituted of an equal number of county councillors and justices of the peace, fixed on a scale prescribed by the Act, and no change is possible without legislation, which is not at present contemplated.

asked the Postmaster-General if he is aware that in awarding gratuities to the retiring female members of the staff who were transferred prior to 1908 from the service of the National Telephone Company un-established service between 1896 and 1901 is reckoned in calculating the amount of the award, whilst in the case of the members of the staff who entered the service of the Post Office as female telephone operators in 1896 unestablished service between 1896 and 1901 is disregarded; if he will say why those members of the staff who have served in the Post Office from the first establishment of the Telephone Department are penalised in this respect for having done so; and whether he can see his way to treat those who entered the service as female telephone operators prior to 1901 on the same terms as new entrants who will be awarded gratuities calculated on the whole term of their service except the first two years?

I am aware of the different treatment of the two classes to which the hon. Member refers. It was explicitly recommended by a Select Committee of this House for the reasons stated in paragraph 323 of their Report; and although I do not at present see my way to depart from the recommendation of the Committee, I am making further inquiries into the matter.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he can see his way to grant to the first-class telegraphists in the six largest cities of the United Kingdom, excluding London, 59s. as maximum for their class, as is enjoyed by men of their class in the Metropolis, instead of merely 56s., as is the limit in that class at present, in view of the fact that there has been no rise in their maximum for twenty years, whilst rents and rates have increased, and the total amount involved is only about £4,000 per annum?

The wages of sorting clerks and telegraphists in the cities referred to by the hon. Member have been fixed in accordance with the recommendations of the Select Committee on Post Office Servants in paragraphs 258 to 261 of their Report. I regret that I can see no sufficient reason for reopening the question.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he is aware that where traders in the Glasgow district seek either extension of their telephone or erection of a new wire they are told by the National Company that such business cannot be undertaken without the sanction of the officials in his Department, and that that sanction is not likely to be given; and will he adopt some method of dealing with offers of new telephone business which will not inconvenience traders?

Probably the hon. hon. Member refers to the arrangement under which the extension of telephonic facilities is undertaken in some districts of Glasgow by the Post Office and in others by the National Telephone Company. The object is to avoid the duplication of the plant of the two systems in view of the impending transfer of the company's system to the Post Office. The company rightly refuse to provide facilities in districts served by the Post Office exchanges. If there are any cases in such districts in which the requirements of traders and others appear not to be met by the Post Office, I shall be glad to have particulars.

Is it the case that in no district in Glasgow where business is offered to the National Telephone Company, and there is an appeal about this business, it will come under the right hon. Gentleman's Department?

asked the Postmaster-General whether, after making further inquiries, he can now hold out any immediate prospect of the maximum rate of wages of the Post Office employés at Walton, which is in the same urban district as Felixstowe, and in which the cost of living is similar, being placed on a par, or at any rate more nearly on a par, with the maximum rate of wages received by the Felixstowe Post Office employés.

I regret that I have not yet been able to complete my inquiries on this subject.

asked the Postmaster-General whether the site for the new post office at Ballymoney has yet been chosen; and, if so, when will the work of erecting the post office be commenced?

The site has been chosen, but Treasury sanction has still to be obtained before the work can be begun.

asked the President of the Board of Education whether an inspection of schools has been undertaken in Huntingdonshire similar to that recently made in Lancashire; and, if so, whether he will issue shortly a White Paper embodying the result of such investigation?

The Board have adopted in Huntingdonshire a similar procedure to that adopted in Lancashire for bringing to the notice of the local education authority and managers improvements which are required in premises of public elementary schools in that area. My right hon. Friend will be happy to furnish copies of the letter and schedules for the information of Members.

I rise to draw the attention of the House to a matter which seems to me to be of very considerable public importance. On the 7th of this month a statement appeared in "The Times" that a warrant had been issued against Mr. Arabindo Ghose for an article which he published in a paper (the "Karmayogin") which he edits, on 25th December last. I immediately approached the India Office to allow me to put a question without notice, in order to get information, but I was told by the Under-Secretary at that time that they had absolutely no information of any kind at the India Office. I was requested to repeat the question. I have done so three times, and to-day, it having been put for the fourth time, all the information I have been able to get is that this warrant has been issued under Section 124 (a) of the Indian Penal Code. My hon. Friend, in answering my question to-day, said he could state nothing with regard to the case, because that would be to prejudge it. I respectfully differ from that opinion, and I would ask whether it would be possible for the India Office to put in the Library a copy of this paper for the information of hon. Members. I have never asked the India Office to express any opinion on the issue of the warrant. I have never asked even for any expressions of opinion in regard to the article. I have never suggested that the India Office should in any way take sides either with the officials in India or with Mr. Arabindo Ghose. The position is this: Although it may be bordering on impropriety—I do not want to minimise that in the least—to raise the question of the issue of this warrant, nevertheless behind the issue of it there is a set of circumstances and a state of official mind which the House ought to take cognisance of. We know perfectly well that we have had already at Patiala cases of sedition where warrants have been issued against men not one of whom has been brought into court. There has not been a single substantial tittle of evidence produced against them, yet these men have been practically imprisoned for weeks and for months, and, ultimately, have had to be discharged without a stain upon their characters and without any serious allegations being made against them. Yet, forsooth, we are told that this is maintaining the dignity, force, and majesty of British rule in India.

I respectfully suggest that there is just as much damage done by the issue of a warrant as there is in bringing men before the court, and that it is the duty of the India Office to impress upon their officers in India, more particularly in view of the present state of political feeling and the exceedingly delicate nature of the task they have to face, it is, I say, their duty to impress upon their officers that such unfortunate occurrences as that which took place in Patiala the other day should not be repeated within the jurisdiction of the Government of India. If this warrant is issued with evidence behind it, why is Mr. Ghose still at large? I have myself received, in the ordinary course of my Indian post, during at least the last three weeks, newspapers, each one of which stated that Mr. Arabindo Ghose was in a certain place, and each one of the statements agreed. It is perfectly well known he has left what we call in this country public life. He has become a sort of religious recluse. He has left the cares and concerns of the material affairs of the Universe, and has gone into retirement to make his peace with the Eternal. It is known what he is doing, and yet this warrant, issued, according to "The Times," on 5th or 6th April, is still undelivered. Nothing apparently has happened. With regard to the Section of the Indian Penal Code under which the warrant has been issued, I may say that Section 124 (a) was inserted, first, at the instance of Sir James FitzStephen, to deal with sedition.

I am not going to read the Section; it is rather long, but there is an explanation attached to it, and that explanation is the organic part of the Code itself. It is divided into three headings, and heads two and three make it perfectly clear that the mere expression of disapprobation of measures taken by the Government is not to be treated as sedition unless unlawful means are contemplated in some shape or form. Let us see how the Indian Government and Indian officials think they are instructed to conduct themselves under this particular Section. I turn to a speech delivered by the late Home Secretary in India, who is now in this country, when he was introducing the Press Law, and with the House's permission I will delight and, I am perfectly certain, amaze them by extracts from that speech. The speech was delivered in the Viceroy's Council when this Bill was being introduced in February of this year. The Home Secretary gave several instances of what was a misdemeanour which ought to be regarded as sedition. He says, in effect, the Government is represented as foreign, and that is sedition. It is therefore stated to be selfish and tyrannical, it drains the country of its wealth and impoverishes the people. That is sedition. It has produced famine, and its public works have generated malaria. That is sedition. [Mr. REES: "Hear, hear.] The hon. Gentleman who cheers that knows very well that that statement is made in official Blue Books. There have been reports presented on the subject of malaria which state that one of the reasons why malaria has become so prevalent is that the natural drainage of the country has been interfered with by railway embankments, and that the unfortunate result of otherwise exceedingly successful experiments in irrigation in some districts has been to waterlog other districts, where pools of water are allowed to collect from which malaria is carried when it would not otherwise be carried.

Is the hon. Member's case that there should be no irrigation works in India unless the mosquito is prevented from carrying malaria?

My case is nothing of the kind, and the hon. Member knows that perfectly well. All I state is this, and nobody disputes it, and any Indian official knows that one of the by-products of irrigation is that stagnant water does lie where it otherwise would not lie, and where this occurs malaria is generated, and having made that statement I decline to admit to anybody that I have been guilty of a seditious utterance. Then the Home Secretary went on to point out that it is said that the Government has introduced the plague and poisoned the wells in order to reduce the population so as to keep it in subjection. I am inclined to agree with him in regard to that single statement that it is seditious, and I have nothing to say about it. Then he goes on to say—these, the House must remember, are different examples of seditious utterances against the Government—that it is said it has destroyed religion by a godless system of education. [Mr. REES: "Hear, hear."] My hon. Friend associates himself with that seditious utterance by saying, "Hear, hear," to that statement, and I am not sure that I do not agree with him, but in saying these things, and in associating ourselves with such statements, we repudiate the idea that we are associating ourselves with seditious utterances. Finally, the Home Secretary alluded to the statement that the Government allows Indians to be ill-treated in the Colonies, and seeks to destroy caste. That is the idea of sedition in the minds of Indian officials, who have to apply this Section of the Indian Code, and who have to say whether any particular utterance by any particular man is or is not apparently culpable under that Section. This is where the difficulty lies.

But let me take the case of Mr. Arabindo Ghose. Mr. Arabindo Ghose is practically an Englishman. He does not speak Bengali, and his influence with his fellow Hindus is weak in proportion. When he was still a baby almost he was brought over to this country, and he was educated in Manchester. From Manchester he came to St. Paul's School in London, and from there he went to Cambridge, and whilst he was at that place he passed into the Indian Civil Service, but was disqualified because he could not ride. He then went to India, and from the Gaekwar of Baroda he received an appointment at the High School of Baroda, an admirable institution which anybody who goes to Baroda will see and examine with the greatest satisfaction. Here you have a man whose fundamentals are Eastern, whose habits of thought are Eastern, who is a Hindu in religion, and who is one of the most zealous followers of the revival sect of the High Church such as you see raising its head in Bengal at the present moment. But this man is imbued with Western thought, has read our literature and the poets like Byron, whom he is exceedingly fond of quoting. He goes back to India and makes several reflections upon the Indian Government, and makes criticisms on its action, and is immediately put down in the black books of the Indian officials, and is regarded either as a sedition-monger or as a man who ought to be watched. I am giving currency to no secret; it is a current report that as a matter of fact this man, after having been tried on an accusation that might have cost him his life, and having been acquitted, and not only acquitted without stain, and acquitted by a judge who uses language which he who runs may read— this man, having been brought before the court and acquitted, according to common and well-informed reports, it was actually discussed whether his name should be put among the list of men to be deported without trial under that Section of which we heard so much last Session.

I am speaking what is common report in India, but of course the proceedings are never published. I wish they were, and I should be very glad if my hon. Friend to-day were going, in answer to anything I have said, to tell me that what took place on the consideration of the report of the nine deportees, plus the case of Mr. Arabindo Ghose, was going to be published. I should be the most delighted man in this House. But there it is, he has been put in the suspected list, and there is not a single thing that he does but is twisted and misrepresented. Even as a matter of fact—and this is my own version of the issue of the warrant—when he retires from public life into private life, although that again was known, and although all his friends said it was imminent, and although he himself practically told me when I saw him that he would not be very much longer in the affairs of the world and engaged in journalistic work—when that step was taken, and he did retire, it was apparently regarded by the Government of Bengal as a move in some deep-seated hidden political plot, and that was the thing which caused the issue of the warrant—at any rate, that is my theory. What is this article about which so much has been said? My hon. Friend has not been able to furnish me with a copy. I have it myself. The "Karmayogin" is a paper published once a week, and up till quite recently Mr. Arabindo Ghose edited it. I have the complete article, but I only propose to read two main seotions of it. They indicate what was in Mr. Arabindo Ghose's mind, and they indicate the character of his offence, so far as it was an offence. This is the key sentence of the whole article:—

"If the Nationalists stand back any longer, either the national movement will disappear or the void created will be filled by a sinister and violent activity. Neither result can be tolerated by men desirous of their country's development and freedom."

Surely to any man who reads this article as it was meant to be read the meaning of that sentence is perfectly clear, and Mr. Arabindo Ghose, as is perfectly well known by those who have followed his actions and his writings, sincerely believes that the Nationalist movement of which he is the head for the time being at any rate, or was till quite' recently, is the one guarantee that there shall be no violence done in India, and be blames the officials who have suppressed the free expression of Nationalist sentiment for the unfortunate circumstances which have led to murder and death and executions which everyone deplores.

May I ask in a friendly way whether this article is published in Bengali, and whether Mr. Arabindo Ghose is not a Bengali?

The article is in the most excellent English. There is not a line of Bengali in the whole of it except the date of this issue and its own title. Mr. Arabindo Ghose could no more write an article in Bengali than I could. The second extract, which will give an idea of the article, is this:—

"Fear of the law is for those who break the law. Our aims are great and honourable, free from stain and reproach, our methods are peaceful though resolute and strenuous. We shall not break the law, and therefore we need not fear the law."

Then he turns to comment on certain things on which comments have been made again in the official Blue Books.

"But if a corrupt police, unscrupulous officials or a partial judiciary—"

That, of course, is not justified by the Blue Books, but it is a matter of common discussion in India—

"make use of the honourable publicity of our political methods to harass the men who stand in front by illegal ukases, suborned and perjured evidence or unjust decisions, shall we shrink from the toll that we have to pay on our march to freedom? Shall we cower behind a petty secrecy or dishonourable inactivity? We must have our associations, our organisations, our means of propaganda, and if these are suppressed by arbitrary proclamations we shall have done our duty by our Motherland and not on us will rest any responsibility for the madness which crushes down open and lawful political activity in order to give a desperate and sullen nation into the hands of those fiercely enthusiastic and unscrupulous forces that have arisen among us inside and outside India."

There is a strong, sincere and effective criticism and condemnation of the practices which have been disgracing the extreme left movement in India during the last year or so. The gentleman of infamous associations who lodges in Paris and tries to stir up the youth of this country and India has had no stronger opponent and no more effective counteracting influence than Mr. Arabindo Ghose in his attempt to say honestly and fearlessly, but yet lawfully and fairly, what he feels about the administration of our officials in India. As I said at the commencement I had no desire to raise this question. I know perfectly well that the state of India at the present moment is a very difficult and a very dangerous one, and those who are best qualified to form a judgment about what may happen are perhaps more pessimistic than those who are less qualified to form that judgment. But I feel perfectly certain that unless the India Office will insist upon its officials administering India with some generosity, some Catholicity of sentiment and some serious attempt to associate with themselves men like Mr. Arabindo Ghose the future is going to be very much darker than it at present is. When we talk about India as being Oriental and Hindu, we make a profound mistake. India is nothing of the kind. India is a sort of growth of the West engrafted upon the stock of the East, and that is the great problem of India to-day. It is not your millions, who simply toil morning, noon and night, week in and week out, month in and month out, year in and year out, toil from the cradle to the grave, and have no aspirations, no thoughts, and no knowledge of the Government of India. That is not the problem of India.

The problem, of India is contained in the handling, in the treatment, in the classification of that small group of Hindus, and of Mahomedans too, who are fundamentally Eastern in their characteristics, but who have been educated over here and have gone back full of the sentiments and the aspirations and the political ideas of the West. If you are going to say, as your officials have said with unfortunate emphasis in issuing this warrant, which has been the occasion of my interposition, "We treat you as suspects, we will have nothing to do with you, and if you criticise us we will put into operation Section 124 (a) of the Indian Criminal Code," the consequences will be upon their heads, and those consequences will certainly not redound to the honour and glory and majesty of our Government in India. I hope, without saying anything more, that what I have said may result in a more satisfactory statement and some better assurance from the India Office, because, I feel perfectly certain that the very best service which we can give to these hard-working and, on the whole, honest officials is to compel them, not to regard themselves as little Akbars who must be obeyed, but to put themselves into the position of Ministers, leaders of political parties if you like, who have to judge public opinion, who have to sway public opinion, and to manipulate public opinion, and who have to take advantage of opposition and criticism as well as of flattery and agreement. It is because I feel that that is the great thing which is required in India to-day that I have raised this question.