asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if his attention had been drawn to the fact that Commandant Sarrazyn, an ex-Commissioner for the Equator district of the Congo, had recently returned to the Congo as sub-director of the Kasai Company in which the Belgian Government hold half the shares; if he was aware that one of the circulars issued by this official, showing him to be a self-confessed dealer in slaves, was published in the "White Book [Cd. 1933]; and, if so, whether he proposed to take any action in the matter?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. The circular to which reference is made appears to have been issued in 1896. Inquiries are being made as to the facts referred to by the hon. Member.

asked the Secretary for Foreign Affairs whether his attention had been called to a complaint made by the firm of W. T. Shaw and Sons, bacon merchants, Limerick, relative to a consignment of hams and bacon sent by them to a customer at Buenos Ayres in the month of August 1909 and refused entrance to that port; what were the reasons given by the Argentine authorities for refusing the goods; had Messrs. Shaw and Sons asked the Foreign Office to inquire into the matter; and, if so, with what result?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. Messrs. W. T. Shaw and Sons' hams were rejected by the Argentine authorities on the ground that the analysis showed traces of boric acid. The bacon was not condemned. His Majesty's Minister at Buenos Ayres inquired into the matter, but was of opinion that it would be useless to make representations to the Argentine Government as the consignees of the hams had endeavoured, on their rejection by the Buenos Ayres authorities, to reintroduce them at another Argentine port.

Has the Foreign Office done anything with regard to the bacon to which no objection was taken?

I understood that the bacon was not condemned. If there are any facts which have not been brought to my notice that my hon. Friend can let me have I will see if anything can be done.

I prefer to bring out the facts by question across the floor of the House.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for India whether there was any intention on the part of the Government of India to continue the office of Director-General of Education in India in the event of the present Director-General vacating that position?

The Secretary of State is not yet in a position to make any statement on this subject.

asked whether it vas the intention of the Government of India to formulate a scheme for extending primary education on free and compulsory lines; and whether there was any intention to nominate an educational member to sit on the Viceroy's Council?

The subject of the first part of the question was discussed at great length in the Viceroy's Council on 18th March. My hon. Friend will find in the report of that Debate, which is in the Library of the House, a full explanation of the views of the Government of India as to the extension of primary education.

asked whether the attention of the India Office had been drawn to the comments of Mr. Justice Harington and Mr. Justice Tennon, of the Calcutta High Court, in disposing of a murder ease from Midnapore on 7th May, the opinion of the judges being that the confession in this case was instigated by the police; and whether, having regard to these statements, the Secretary of State would cause a special inquiry to be made, into the administration and methods of the Indian police?

A comprehensive inquiry into the administration and methods of the Indian Police was carried out during the years 1902 and 1903 by a strong Commission including both European and Indian members. In their Report, which was presented to Parliament in 1905, the practice of working for confessions or relying on them as evidence against accused persons was emphatically condemned. The views of the Commission were endorsed by the Government of India and continuous efforts have been made ever since to enforce them in practice. The Secretary of State sees no reason for instituting a further inquiry.

Is no notice being taken of eases that now occur?

Every notice is taken and every effort is made to deal with such cases. I hope before long such cases will cease to arise.

asked the Secretary of State for War who was responsible for the date of the Army promotion examinations having been fixed in Whitsun week, a date which would naturally be inconvenient to many officers of the Regular and Territorial Forces?

The date for the Army promotion examination in question is fixed for the third Monday in May by the King's Regulations, paragraph 870. The attendance of Territorial Force officers is voluntary, but as nearly 600 presented themselves, as compared with 113 at the December examination, it is evident that the date was not inconvenient to them.

I should like to ask if, when this inconvenience was brought to the notice of the War Office the only reply was that that Department did not know, and could not be expected to know, the date of Whit Monday?

asked whether there were any officers who had served continuously on the general staff for more than the regulation period of four years; if so, what period of extension had each enjoyed?

The general staff was not formed until September 12th, 1906, and there are accordingly no officers now on the general staff who have served for more than four years in that capacity.

asked whether Hougomont Farm was the property of the British Government; whether yearly financial provision was made for its maintenance as a British graveyard; and, if so, what amount; whether visitors were charged for admittance; and what arrangements were made for its proper custody and reverent control?

Hougomont Farm is not the property of the British Government, and there is no British graveyard there. I am informed that the bodies of those who fell there were removed many years ago to the cemetery near Brussels. The arrangements for admission to and the preservation of the farm rest, it is understood, with the local proprietor.

asked whether stagnation in the promotion of officers still existed in the Royal Garrison Artillery; and, if so, at what period in the future the normal flow of promotion would be reached?

I have nothing at present to add to the information which I gave the House during the Debate on Army Estimates on this subject. It is not possible to forecast the period at which the normal flow of promotion will recommence, though I hope that that period is not far off.

asked if the result of the trials with the new bullet have been satisfactory; and, if so, how soon the new ammunition will be issued for use?

Trials are still in progress.

Have the trials of the bullet which were described as "filling up the gap" been satisfactory?

These trials are in progress and it is rather unwise in these questions to jump to conclusions.

asked what units will be provided with mobile field kitchens for experimental purposes on manœuvres this year; and, inasmuch as it will not increase the present scale of transport, if these experiments may be made on a larger scale than in former years?

Two cooking waggons and two cooking carts are being issued to the Aldershot Command for distribution to units for trial. The introduction of mobile field kitchens will increase the present scale of transport. Until a satisfactory pattern has been found, experiments on a large scale are not warranted. Up to the present no pattern that has been tried has proved satisfactory.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware in the first place that, owing to the delay in the action of the War Office in this matter, that in some units officers are paying for cooking carts for their men out of their own pockets, while the men are subscribing for this much-needed reform through the canteen fund; and, in the second place, is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that he has just authorised an extra G.S. waggon to carry the men's dinner, so that in the event of the cooker being supplied this G.S. waggon would be redundant, and, therefore, that there would be no extra transport required?

I do not know about that, but if the Noble Lord will put down a question I will make inquiry.

Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that the extra cart was supplied, and therefore this would be redundant if the cooking cart is supplied to take its place?

Is it not the fact that the German Army is now issuing a field mobile kitchen not only to battalions but also to companies?

I have seen something of the sort in the papers, but I do not know. All I can say is that having tried a number of patterns we have not found one which we consider satisfactory.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether the Report of the Departmental Committee which inquired into the question of Indian emigration to Crown Colonies will now be made available for hon. Members?

The Report will be in the hands of hon. Members in a few days.

asked the Under-Secretary of the Colonies if the Secretary of State can give the House any information as to the arrangements made for financing the extension of the Uganda Railway?

The only extension of the Uganda Railway at present authorised is the line from Jinja to Kakindu. I am informing my hon. Friend in reply to another question how the cost is to be provided.

asked whether the Government proposes to construct a branch line to the tin fields of Bauchi from the Baro-Kano line; whether of the latter line no less than 100 miles have been laid in the current year; and, if the answer in either or in both cases be in the affirmative, whether the Secretary of State will give the House any information as to the manner in which these lines and extensions have been, are being, and will be financed?

The Government is not prepared to undertake at the present moment a branch line from the Baro-Kano Railway to the tin fields of Bauchi. Railhead has advanced more than 100 miles during the course of the present year. Full information as to the manner in which funds have been provided for the construction of the railway will be found in the papers laid before Parliament in March, 1909 (Command 4523).

Are special grants made, and do they come before the House for this purpose?

I think it best to refer my hon. Friend to the Command paper. He will find the full accounts of it set out in Command 4523.

asked whether a railway is being constructed from Jinja to Kakindu on the Victoria Nile in order to turn the rapids of the river; and, if so, in what manner such construction is being, or is to be, financed?

Authority has been given for the construction of a railway from Jinja to Kakindu. The amount necessary for construction will be advanced as a loan from Imperial Funds.

Do the Colonial Office contemplate making similar advances from Imperial funds to develop railway extension in other parts of Africa?

That depends upon circumstances. It depends upon the railway.

asked the Under-Secretary for the Colonies whether he is aware that, though the revision of the Trinidad Customs tariff has been under consideration since 1906, nothing was made public until after the new tariff was arranged and accepted by the Legislative Council, and therefore no opportunity was given to any of the persons or bodies affected, with the exception of the druggists, to express their opinions; and whether he is aware that owing to the limited extent of the elective principle in the Legislative Council the working classes believe that because of the secrecy maintained their interests have been sacrificed; and will he state what action he proposes to take in the matter?

My hon. Friend is no doubt aware that it is usual, and indeed necessary in the interests of the Revenue, that any alterations which may be contemplated in a Customs tariff shall be carried into effect without allowing importers an opportunity to forestall the action of the Legislature. The Secretary of State sees no reason to believe that the interests of the working classes in Trinidad have been sacrificed in the changes which it has recently been found necessary to make in the Customs tariff of the Colony.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he is aware that the greater portion of the increase under the revised Trinidad tariff is obtained either from fresh duties on articles of food largely used by the working class, such as salt pork or salt fish, or from increased duties upon other, food, and that, owing to the system of indentured labour, no corresponding rise in wages is possible; and what action he proposes to take in this matter?

I think my hon. Friend is under a misapprehension as to the general effect of the increase which it has unfortunately been necessary to make in the Customs tariff of Trinidad, and that I cannot do better than quote the following extract from a Minute written by the collector of Customs on the subject:—"The articles used mainly by the working classes on which new duties are imposed are fish (pickled, smoked, and dried), meats (preserved in brine or dried), peas, and beans. These articles were free under the old tariff, and the duties now imposed are extremely moderate, namely: 50 cents the 100 1bs. on meats and 1s. the 100 lbs. on the other articles. The revenue estimated to be derived from them amounts at the outside to about £8,000, against which compensation is given by the reduction of the duties on oils, workmen's tools and implements, and other articles. The larger part of the increased duties will be derived from articles of food used by the wealthier classes of the community. The tariff of Trinidad as amended is generally lower than those of the other islands."

Will the increased duties increase the cost?

No doubt that will be the case.

asked whether the import duty on matches costing 10d. per gross has been fixed in the new Trinidad tariff at 1s. 6d. per gross, being equal to a tax of 180 per cent.; and whether the import duty on cocoanut oil, an article of local production and of large local consumption among East Indians, has been left in the new tariff at 1s. 3d. per gallon?

No alteration has taken place in the rate of duty imposed on matches imported into the Colony, which was formerly 2s. 6d. a gross on boxes of 120 and is now 1s. 6d. a gross on boxes of 72. The rate of duty on cocoanut oil was also left unaltered.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he had any knowledge of the existence in Trinidad of a rum trust which supplies the local markets at 2s. 3½d. per gallon, the production above what is required for local consumption being sold in England at from 10d. to 1s. per gallon; whether what makes this state of things possible is the fact that the Excise Duty is 8s. 6d. per gallon and the import duty 9s. per gallon in Trinidad; whether it had been understood that this anomaly would be remedied whenever the tariff was revised; and whether he can give any reason why this abuse still continues?

My hon. Friend's question appears to be founded on a misapprehension due to a confusion between the liquid and the proof gallon. Rum is sold in the Colony by the liquid gallon and not by the proof gallon as in England. The average strength of the rum produced is 40 per cent, over proof. I am informed that the average local price is about 2s. per liquid gallon and the average market price in England about 1s. 2d. to 1s. 4d. per proof gallon. I may add that the question of an increase in the Excise Duty is under consideration.

asked whether it would be possible by raising the Trinidad Excise Duty from Ss. 6d. to 9s. to produce an additional revenue of £7,600, entirely deducted from the profits of the trust, the price of rum remaining the same or lower to the consumer as before?

As I informed my hon. Friend, in reply to another question, the possibility of an increase in the Excise Duty—which is, however, already in excess of the Excise Duties imposed in other Colonies—is under consideration.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether the Government of Sir George Le Hunte, in Trinidad, is considering a still further increase of taxation; whether a committee has been appointed with that object; and, if so, whether he can supply their names, and state whether their deliberations will be entirely secret or whether the public will be given an opportunity to discuss the proposals made by them before they are finally adopted?

A committee has been appointed to consider the question of raising the additional revenue required for necessary public works. The committee was to consist of the Colonial-Secretary, the Auditor-General, the Receiver-General, Mr. Fenwick, Mr. Goodwille, Mr. Henderson, and Mr. C. de Verteuil, the last four gentlemen being members of the Legislative Council; Mr. W. Scott, Mr. McLelland, the Warden of Tacarigua, Mr. Boland, who is the chairman of the St. Ann's Local Road Board, and Mr. C. C. Soodeen, who is chairman of the East India Association. The Secretary of State has no information on the points raised in the last part of my hon. Friend's question, but it is obvious that any increase or alteration of taxation that may be recommended could only be enacted after discussion in the Legislative Council.

May I ask if the four members of the Legislative Council are elected?

I am not quite sure. Speaking off-hand, I would not like to say; but I will inquire, if my hon. Friend wishes.

Would it be possible for the Working Men's Association of Trinidad to be represented on that Council as representative of the working classes?

All questions of representation in Trinidad are very difficult, as my hon. Friend knows. If we were to give representation to the Working Men's Association it would be necessary to give representation of the East India Association, which are a larger element of the community. We have every desire to give representation to all interests concerned, but it is a difficult matter.

Does not the Working Men's Association of Trinidad contain not more than 256 members?

I should not like to say.

I will give him that information.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether in view of the fact that the clemency of the Crown had been extended to Dinizulu upon the advice and with the approval of the Government of United South Africa, he would use his good offices with that Government and with the Governor-General in order to procure the release of the Zulu chief Tilonko, who was sentenced on 17th August, 1906, to ten years' imprisonment with hard labour by a military court-martial, although on 12th July previously to such trial and sentence an Act of Indemnity for all things done during the existence of martial law in the Colony had passed both Houses of the Legislature of Natal, the effect of such Act being to preclude the chief Tilonko from appealing against the sentence so pronounced upon him under martial law?

The Union Ministry have already shown by their action with regard to Dinizulu, to which my hon. Friend refers, that they are not indisposed to exercise clemency in these cases, and the Secretary of State is confident that they will give full consideration to the case of Tilonko.

Will the hon. and gallant Gentleman use his good offices?

I think it would be very unwise for me to add anything to the answer I have given.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Agriculture whether, in view of the persistent increase in the number of cases of anthrax since the beginning of the current year, causing danger both to healthy livestock and to human beings, the Board propose to take any, and, if so, what steps of a more drastic character than those hitherto taken to stamp out this disease?

The Board have some doubt as to the accuracy of the diagnosis in some of the cases of disease returned as anthrax, and they are considering the issue of a revised Anthrax Order at an early date, designed to secure a more uniform and efficient method of diagnosis. The Board's veterinary advisers have little hope that anthrax can be stamped out, but every effort will be made to prevent the spread of infection.

Is the hon. Baronet aware that during the last six months there has been an increase of over 12 per cent, as compared with the corresponding six months of last year in this virulent disease, and that during the last three weeks three persons have died from handling carcases, and whether that does not disclose a state of affairs in which the Board ought to take stringent action?

I am aware of the serious increase and that is why the Board are contemplating taking further action.

asked on what date the Argentine Government officially declared that country to be free from foot-and-mouth disease; what steps the Board have taken during the meantime to verify such declaration; and what is the reason of the Board's delay in acceding to the request of the Argentine Government that they should be permitted to export live cattle to this country for slaughter?

The declaration to which my hon. Friend refers was dated 25th August last. It was made officially by the Argentine Government, and the Board took no steps to verify it. The freedom of a country from disease at any given time is not however the only consideration which the Board are required to take into account in considering whether or not the importation of animals into this country should be permitted, and in view, inter alia, of the past history of foot-and-mouth disease in Argentina, and of its geographical position in relation to other countries in which the disease was known to exist, the Board did not feel justified in withdrawing the existing prohibition.

asked whether the two provinces in Argentina in which it was stated that an outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease has quite recently occurred were not far removed from the ports of embarkation of cattle for this country; and, if so, whether the placing of a cordon round the two affected districts, as was done to the satisfaction of the Board in the case of a recent outbreak in North America, would meet the requirements of the Board, so that cattle from districts free from disease may at once be brought into this country for slaughter?

Our information as regards the locality of the outbreaks of foot-and-mouth disease in Argentina is of a very general character, but we know that the disease exists in the territory of Chaco and in the zone north of Santa Fé, as well as in the two provinces of Corrientes and Entre Rios. The southern portion of the last-named province is not more than forty or fifty miles from Buenos Ayres. In any case, however, there is no likelihood that the Board would be able to accept the arrangement suggested as affording sufficient security against the introduction of diseased animals into this country.

Is it not the case that in North America when an outbreak occurs this system of drawing a cordon is adopted, and, if so, is there any special reason why it should not be adopted here?

The conditions are so different.

During the period in this country, when there were no regulations such as those which now exist, epidemics occurred abroad, and was it not invariably the case that the disease was introduced here, it being found impossible to prevent its introduction owing to the fact that once it comes in it spreads with the utmost rapidity, and no regulations which are imposed can humanly prevent the spread of the disease?

Yes, Sir.

Is it not the fact that the period of incubation in this disease is fourteen days, and that the voyage from South America is about a month, so that there can be no doubt about the disease being discovered if it exists among the cattle in the ship?

I think the hon. Member has stated the conditions correctly, but they are no safeguards.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will state the reason for the delay in appointing the advisory committees in connection with the Labour Exchanges; and upon what date does he expect to have these advisory committees completed and their work commenced?

Under the General Regulations made under the Labour Exchanges Act, the Board of Trade are to consult persons and bodies of employers and workpeople in connection with the appointment of representatives on the advisory committees. Such consultations, of which there have been a considerable number, have necessarily caused delay in the selection of these committees. Some of the committees are, however, now nearly completed.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he can see his way clear to recommend to His Majesty the King to grant an amnesty to Civil servants and deserters such as was granted to the Army, Navy, police, and mercantile marine?

The question is not understood. Perhaps the hon. Member will let me know the kind of cases to which he refers?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he has considered the Report of the Joint Committee on Stage Plays (Censorship), recommending, inter alia, that a single licence should be granted to both theatres and music halls, and that the existing obligation to obtain the sanction of the Lord Chamberlain to the performance of stage plays should be abolished; and whether he proposes to introduce legislation accordingly?

I can only reply at present that the Report is under my consideration.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he can say whether the design of the medals awarded to the police by His late Majesty in November last is yet settled; and whether he can now fix an approximate date for their presentation?

The design for this medal has been approved, and I am informed that some of the medals will be ready early next month. His Majesty's pleasure will be taken as to their presentation.

asked what is the number of candidates who have applied to join the Metropolitan Police Force since 1st January, 1910; how many have been medically examined by the chief medical officer at Scotland Yard; what proportion of these were accepted; and the number rejected on medical grounds?

The total number of applications received between 1st January and 28th May, 1910, was 6,065. Of these 2,862 abandoned their intention on learning the requirements of the Metropolitan Police as regards physique and education, or have not yet presented themselves for examination. Of the 3,203 who presented themselves 955 were accepted, 1,602 were rejected by the chief surgeon, or his deputy, as physically unfit, and 646 were rejected on other grounds.

asked what is the number of men in the Metropolitan Police Force who are not at present doing the full beat round daily?

The only men in excess of the number required for beats are those engaged on such police duty as traffic, point, police court, station or other similar duty, and the reserve for relieving for leave. When recruits are posted, they have to be shown round their beats at first by experienced constables.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he can say if the two days' extra pay granted to the members of the Metropolitan Police Force in connection with the arrangements for the funeral of the late King was granted to all the members of the force stationed in this House during that time; if not, can he say why; and whether he will take steps to put these men upon an equality with their fellows?

The extra two days' pay was given to those members of the Metropolitan Police on whom fell directly or indirectly the exceptional strain caused by the funeral of the late King. No special strain fell at that time on the officers employed in this House—on the contrary, their duties were lighter than usual at this season of the year, and they had therefore no claim to the extra two days' pay. They draw a special allowance, which is calculated to compensate them for the extra duty which at other times falls to their lot.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the hours put in by these men were excessive on two or three days about that period, that on one day their hours were twelve and on another thirteen and a half, and that twenty members working in and about the House already in possession of the special privileges he referred to have been actually in receipt of this two days' pay?

I have given the answer which has been supplied to me. I naturally do not deal with the roster of police duty myself. If there are special circumstances which the hon. Gentleman thinks are not covered by that answer, if he will let me have them I will have them again looked into.

asked when the Return of Experiments on Living Animals during the year 1909 will be presented?

The Return was moved for yesterday, and I hope it will be in the hands of Members next week.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that the vessel "The Alert," while recently engaged upon a pilotage examination, struck a rock in Rocquaine Bay and had to be sent to Southampton for repairs; and whether the whole of the candidates on board duly passed the examination and are now qualified pilots?

I am aware of the casualty to "The Alert," but I am unable to answer the latter part of the question. The Board of Trade have no pilotage jurisdiction in the Channel Islands.

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether complaints have reached him from the third-class passengers of certain steamers carrying British emigrants to Canada that the sanitation, food, drinking water, and general accommodation are so miserable as to excite widespread indignation; whether he has made, or will make, inquiries into this matter; and whether, especially in view of the very large numbers now proceeding to the Canadian provinces, he can immediately approach the steamship companies against whom complaints have been or may be received with representations for more sanitary and proper treatment?

Yes, Sir. Complaints have reached me from third-class passengers on some of the steamers carrying emigrants to Canada, and each such case has been, or is being, investigated. Great care is taken to see that the statutory Regulations as to food, sanitation, and accommodation are complied with on these vessels, and representations are made to the owners in any case in which this appears necessary.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if there is any British company or private owner, who is a British subject, possessing vessels specially built and fitted for salvage work to wrecks, and, if so, will he state where such vessels are usually stationed on the British coasts?

I have no special information on the subject referred to by the hon. Member, but he will, I think, find the information he desires in the Appendix to Lloyd's Calendar.

asked if the Admiralty is provided with salvage vessels or has made any arrangements with private persons possessing vessels fitted specially for salvage work securing priority for the Admiralty in cases of need?

Several dockyard tugs and lighters are specially fitted for salvage work. The reply to the second part of the question is in the negative. The Admiralty always have ample opportunity of selecting from among the applicants for employment in salvage work.

asked, with reference to the doctor called in on an emergency under the statutory rules, in pursuance of the Midwives Act, and to the fact that payment is now being made to him out of the rates in some places under the Public Health Act, 1875, and in others under the Poor Law Amendment Act, 1848, whether, in the absence of any application for consent by or on behalf of the patient or her husband, such a payment out of the rates to the doctor, whether under the one Act or the other, is treated as parochial relief; whether, as a matter of fact, the patient and her husband in respect of attendance on the former of whom the doctor is thus paid under the Poor Law Amendment Act, 1848, are in some unions, but not in others, entered and classed as paupers in receipt of medical relief; whether, when the payment is made under the Public Health Act, 1875, the patient and her husband are everywhere spared from any demoralising contact with the Poor Law, and are not subjected to visits from the relieving officer; what authority in each locality decides whether the payment out of the rates to the doctor shall be made under the one Act or the other; what authority determines whether the patient and her husband in those cases in which no application or consent is made by, them or on their behalf shall or shall not be regarded as in receipt of parochial relief and be dealt with as paupers; and whether, in view of the diversity of opinion and of action among local authorities in this matter, the President of the Local Government Board will issue a circular clearing up the legal position?

As I informed my hon. Friend, in answer to his question of the 28th April last, there are two or three cases in which payments of the kind referred to have been made under Section 133 of the Public Health Act, 1875. Such payments would not be parochial relief. Some Boards of Guardians have, I believe, made similar payments under Section 2 of the Poor Law Amendment Act, 1848, but I have no information as to their practice in the matter. It does not seem to me to be necessary to adopt the course suggested in the last part of the question. I may remind my hon. Friend that a Bill has been introduced on behalf of the Government, in another place, which contains a provision on this subject, and I can assure him that the points to which he has drawn attention will not be lost sight of.

May I ask, with regard to the Bill introduced by the Lord President of the Council, whether the right hon. Gentleman can see his way to substitute the local supervising authority for the board of guardians as the authority.

I have already told my hon. Friend that the point to which he has drawn attention will not be lost sight of.

asked the President of the Local Government Board whether his attention has been called to the circumstances attending the death of Richard Bartlett, a labourer, whose decomposed body was found in the river at Taunton, and upon whose body was found a letter, in which occurred grave charges of brutality and callousness on the part of a relieving officer named Chapman, em- ployed by the Taunton Board of Guardians; whether it is part of the duties of a relieving officer to direct men lacking physical strength to go to a member of the board of guardians to work for 1s. a day; and whether, if the matter has already been before his notice, he is prepared to take action in the matter; and, if not, will he inquire?

I had already caused inquiries to be made with regard to this case, and had considered the reports of the inquest. It is possible that the relieving officer may have committed an error of judgment in advising Bartlett as to obtaining work, but there is no evidence that he acted with any intentional harshness. The officer has held office for more than twenty years, during which time the Local Government Board have received no complaints with regard to him. I have, however, given a warning that he should be most careful in future to bear in mind the importance of tact and sympathy in the discharge of his duties.

asked whether, and, if so, when, it is intended to appoint additional officers of Excise in the City of Sheffield to cope with the increase of work due to the Finance Act and the prospective increase owing to the coming removal of the Poor Law disqualification for old age pensions?

A rearrangement of the work of the Excise officers in Sheffield collection, which includes Sheffield City, is at present under consideration. It is not at present intended to increase the staff of officers in the City of Sheffield in consequence of any work due to the Finance Act. As regards the prospective increase of pension work owing to the coming removal of the Poor Law disqualification, the question will be considered before the additional work in question arises and when a reliable estimate can be formed of its amount.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is aware that these officers are worked practically up to the breaking point already, and also whether he is aware it is already estimated that at least 1,200 more claims will have to be investigated?

In regard to the first part of the supplementary question, I have to say that I am not aware of the fact. As to the second part, I do not know where the hon. Gentleman got his information from, but it is not according to mine.

May I ask whether there is any truth in the rumour that it is intended rather to diminish than increase the present staff?

I am not aware that there is any truth in the rumour. I was not aware of the rumour.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he can make arrangements for the provision of one suit of uniform every year to men who are regularly employed every day by the Post Office under an allowance in delivering His Majesty's mails, even if the time occupied in such employment does not exceed an hour and a half?

No uniform is supplied to auxiliary postmen and men employed under allowance who work for less than three hours a day. I do not think that there is any justification for the heavy expenditure which would be entailed by the supply of uniform to men whose official duty takes up so small a portion of their time.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he can make arrangements to put on the regular staff at local post offices men who have for several years been employed there as substitutes, to the entire satisfaction of the Post Office authorites and of the general public, instead of filling the vacancy by sending strangers from the district office?

I shall be glad if the hon. Member will give me particulars of the cases he has in his mind.

asked the Postmaster-General whether, seeing that in celebration of His Majesty's Accession remissions of sentences and condonation of certain offences have been granted to the Navy, Army, mercantile marine, and the Metropolitan Police Force, it is his intention to advise, as an act of grace, a remission or reduc- tion of punishment or disqualification to Post Office servants?

The circumstances differ in the Post Office from those prevailing in the other Services mentioned by the hon. Member. The punishments awarded for offences or irregularities are extra duty, loss of stripes carrying loss of pay, deferment of increment, withholding of promotion, reduction and dismissal. I fear it is not possible to devise any system of remission of these punishments which would be workable without giving rise to serious inequalities, even if it were desirable to adopt such an innovation. I do not propose, therefore, to take the action suggested by the hon. Member.

asked the President of the Board of Education whether he is aware that in connection with the school gardening classes at Syderstone, Norfolk, the grant earned by four boys who had made thirty-eight, and one boy thirty-nine attendances out of forty, had been withheld though they were prevented completing their attendances solely because the school was closed by order of the local sanitary authority; and whether he will take steps to prevent local authorities, who are doing their best to develop this part of educational work, being discouraged in this way by using the discretionary power possessed by the Board under paragraph 13 of Schedule III of the Elementary Code?

My right hon. Friend is aware of the case referred to, but he is not prepared to accept without reservation the statement that the boys in question were prevented from making the requisite number of attendances "solely because the school was closed by order of the local sanitary authority." The Regulations require forty hours' instruction to be given in order that the 4s. grant may be earned. This very moderate number of hours constitutes a minimum, and it was open to the authority to spread the course over the whole twelve months ending on 31st October, 1909. The school was closed on 11th October, and at that date only thirty-nine hours of instruction had been given to any scholar in the class. It is obvious that the authority were cutting down the hours of instruction very close to the minimum, and had left them- selves no margin for accidents. The Board are most anxious to encourage progressive authorities in their endeavour to develop this form of instruction, and they are most unwilling to impose unnecessary hardship, but it does not appear to my right hon. Friend that any hardship is involved in this case.

asked the President of the Board of Education if his attention has been called to the report of the London Education Committee, which states that the improvement in the children's physical condition is due to regular feeding during the school term, and which further states that directly the meals were discontinued during the holidays there was a marked falling off in the physical condition of the children; and whether the Government propose legislation which will empower education authorities to feed the children during the holidays and vacation?

My right hon. Friend has not been able to trace the report referred to. As regards the second part of the question, I must refer the hon. Member to the answer given by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister to the hon. Member for the East Division of Leeds on 18th April.

May I ask the hon. Gentleman if he can give any reason why the Government are not going to legislate on the question when as a matter of fact the Bill will be non-controversial?

We do not hold the view that the Bill would be non-controversial.

May I ask the hon. Gentleman whether he can suggest ways and means for feeding the necessitous children during the holidays?

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he has any official information showing that officers and men serving in submarines have their eyesight affected in consequence; and, if so, whether the naval medical authorities have suggested any method of dealing with the circumstances?

There is no evidence that officers and men serving in submarines have their eyesight affected in consequence.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether His Majesty's ships "Cadmus" and "Clio" had for the last two years been detailed for service at Shanghai and in the Biver Yangtse; whether, during the summer months, no climatic allowance had been paid to the officers and ships' companies; whether these ships are not suitable for work in hot climates; whether the "Bramble" class and small river gunboats were specially built for such service; whether their officers and ships' companies are paid climatic allowance; and whether he will give the matter his consideration?

The reply to the first two parts is in the affirmative. The Admiralty consider that these sloops are suitable for work in hot climates. The "Bramble" class and the river gunboats which are given climatic allowances were specially built for this service. I shall be very glad to give further consideration to the question to which the Noble and gallant Lord has been good enough to draw my attention, of extending the allowance to the sloops; I have, in fact, taken steps to consult the Commander-in-Chief in China on the subject.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether fifty-seven warrants have been issued in less than ten months against the crew of His Majesty's ship "Pegasus"; whether he has any official information showing that the crew is full of discontent; and whether he can state the cause of the trouble?

It is true that, according to the latest returns, a somewhat larger number of warrants than usual have been made out on board the "Pegasus" since her recommission in March, 1909, but the great majority have been for leave-breaking offences, which are prevalent on the Australian station. There is no official information as to any discontent on the part of the crew, but inquiries are being made.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty when he proposes to intimate the decision of the Lords Commissioners with regard to the petitions presented by the employés in the various dockyards during 1909?

The proposals of the Admiralty have been sent to the Treasury, and we are now waiting for their concurrence.

Is there no means of expediting the replies to these petitions? I think these were presented last June.

I am extremely sorry that delay has taken place. The answers to petitions have to go through a great many departments in the Admiralty, and the petitions are all answered at the same time. The result is that we have to wait for the answer to the question which takes the longest amount of time to consider.

asked whether, when filling vacancies on the established lists of the dockyards, it is proposed to adhere to the Home Dockyard Regulations, particularly Regulation 293a?

In filling vacancies on the established list it is proposed generally to adhere to the Dockyard Regulations. An exception will, however, be made in regard to the rule relating to age limits in favour of those workmen who have passed the usual maximum age whilst the established list has been closed, in order that they may not be disqualified by age for establishment in the immediately available vacancies.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty if he will give instructions that workmen required for the Deptford Victualling Yard and other naval establishments shall be engaged through the local Labour Exchanges?

Instructions have already been given to all the Admiralty establishments that the Labour Exchanges are to be freely used for the purpose of obtaining workmen as required.

asked the Lord Advocate whether his attention has been drawn to the cases of William Wilson, butcher, 7, Norfolk-street, Glasgow, and Jeanie Wilson, or Sharp, dairykeeper, 207, Firhill-road, Glasgow, recently fined 5s. and expenses for serving customers with steak cuttings at 7.10 p.m. and 4 ozs. of boiled beef at 8.15 p.m., respectively; and whether he will introduce legislation to bring the law of Scotland more into harmony with that of other countries?

Inquiry has been made into the cases referred to. It appears that in each case the accused pleaded guilty to a breach of a closing order made under the Shop Hours Act, 1904, which, as the hon. Member is aware, is a statute applying to the United Kingdom. The convictions were quite regular, and, on the information before me, I see no necessity for legislation.

(at the Bar) acquainted the House that he had a Message from the King to this House signed by His Majesty's own hand.

To-morrow I shall move: "That the King's Message be taken into consideration, and that a Committee be appointed."

(at the Bar) acquainted the House that he had a Message from the King to this House signed by His Majesty's own hand, and he presented the same to the House, and it having been read by Mr. Deputy-Speaker (all the Members of the House being uncovered) as f olloweth:—

I beg to move,

On a point of Order. May I inquire whether the hon. Member for the Walton Division at Liverpool (Mr. F. E. Smith) was in order in opposing this Bill unless he intended to carry his opposition to a Division; and whether Mr. Speaker himself has not indicated that it is not in accordance with the spirit of the Standing Order that an hon. Member should speak in opposition to a Bill under the Ten Minutes' Rule unless he intended to carry his opposition to a Division?

No. I have often heard it done before. Sometimes an hon. Member, in rising to oppose a Bill, says that he does not intend to divide the House upon it, although he intends to oppose it at a later stage. It is not out of order to oppose a Bill by speech, although that speech is not backed up by dividing the House.

May I say, in order to put myself right with the House, that when I rose to speak it was my intention to challenge a Division? I did in the first instance challenge a Division, but, realising that the sense of the House—which I believe, rightly or wrongly, was not entirely on the merits of the proposal, but merely on the question that the Bill should be read a first time—was against me, and believing that that was the view of the House as a whole, I desisted from the intention which I originally had.

May I ask whether the hon. and learned Gentleman was in any way intimidated?

I beg to move to insert the following:—

My hon. Friend, in moving the insertion of this Clause, is, I think, to be congratulated in the first place because he is the only Member of this House, so far as I know, who has, on two separate occasions, found an opportunity by his ingenuity to evade the ruling of successive Chairmen of Committees, and move an Amendment to the Consolidated Fund Act.

It was also done by the hon. Gentleman's son.

Well, where the son did not succeed the father has been successful. My hon. Friend has very good-humouredly charged me with being too willing to break the law. I confess that, as the hon. Member says, I stand here quite unabashed by the crimes that have been committed. I confess that I have some sympathy with the hon. Member in his effort to draw attention to what, of course, is a grave departure from the ordinary financial procedure of this House, but I am not asking for any great extenuation of the action of the Treasury. I must ask the House to take its mind back to the circumstances in which these acts were committed. The Old Age Pensions Act came into force on 1st January, 1909. The amount of weekly payments estimated as likely to accrue was about £125,000. The payment for the first week was, I think, as a matter of fact, £120,000, the payment for the third week had got up to £137,000, and by the time that 20th February came round I think it amounted to something nearer £150,000 per week. It was impossible to foresee how many people would be likely to draw pensions, and the number in the case of Ireland had largely exceeded the reasonable expectations of the Treasury in this matter. The House of Commons was summoned to meet on 16th February. It was not until February that any actual shortage in the cash available to pay these pensions was discovered. As I think every Member of the House is aware, it is impossible during the Debate on the Address to interrupt the proceedings for any purpose whatever. It was not, therefore, until the Address was concluded, which occurred on 25th February, that it was possible to take Supply.

It is not only this special case I had in my mind, but scores of cases that have come before me.

I confess I am not aware of any other than those that are covered by the utilisation of the Civil Contingency Grant. There were six or seven such cases, and it was to meet these that the fund was instituted; but to get a similar case to this you must go back to 1882 or 1883. Therefore, the occasions when it is practically necessary, unless you are prepared to bring to a full-stop the payments authorised by Parliament, to do something of this sort are very rare. The question is whether the Amendment pro-proposed by my hon. Friend would not really in itself be a greater evil than the evil which it is designed to stop, and, in the second place, whether the words he proposes would really carry out the object he has in view. I contend that it is very much better to stand here in a white sheet, if necessary, to confess one's error, and to put the whole facts before the House, and to get an Act of Indemnity for this financial operation which has taken place than it would be to suspend the whole of the service which has been authorised by Parliament for something which it was impossible to foresee.

The right hon. Gentleman does not, I think, quite appreciate the Penalty Clause. It is not as explained by the right hon. Gentleman. He says that the House has power of dismissing any Minister who does something that he ought not to do. I do not quite agree with the right hon. Gentleman, because the party will always back up a Minister against the House, and therefore the dismissal really is in the hands of the party. The proposal of the hon. Member (Mr. Gibson Bowles) says if any person does so-and-so, he shall be guilty of the misdemeanour, and shall, in addition, forfeit any office he holds under the Crown, and if the hon. Member will only make that retrospective I should vote with him with far greater pleasure than I shall do now. The effect of the Amendment would be an extremely good one. The only reason that the right hon. Gentleman has given for his opposition to the Amendment is this—and it is a repetition of the defence he made yesterday—that what was done was done with a good object and a good intention. I believe that the financial arrangements of all parties are made with a good object and intent, but unless something of this sort is put into the Bill there is a temptation to Governments to make incorrect estimates and then avail themselves of the power which has been availed of by the right hon. Gentleman and come here and say, "We have done something which is wrong, but we have done it with a good object." Their excuse will be that they consider that it is an excellent object. The right hon. Gentleman said this money had been spent upon old age pensions. The result will be that anything which is a good object to attain will be sufficient excuse for breaking the custom which has always obtained at the Treasury.

I coupled with that statement the proviso that anything of that sort should be rectified by Parliament as early as possible.

Yesterday the Secretary to the Treasury had the effrontery to unblushingly admit what he had done and claimed that he had done right. Today he winds up his remarks by saying that he is standing in a white sheet. I do not know whether it occurred to him that it would be a little wiser to take up rather a humbler attitude. It became clear that on 19th February a shortage was likely to occur, and on 27th a shortage did occur, and the right hon. Gentleman says:—

"That is not our fault, because the House did not meet until 15th February, the Address could not be interrupted, and we could not do anything until 10th March."

dissented.

The right hon. Gentleman shakes his head. I suppose he is a little modest for the moment; but what I have stated is the desire of all heads of departments. As I read the new clause proposed by the hon. Member opposite, it would be possible for the Treasury to sanction the transfer of sums from the Army to the Navy.

This proposal concerns only the Civil Service. In the case of the Army or the Navy, you would have the same security and the same provision in the Appropriation Act when it comes as you have now. That really legalises what may have been done under Clause 4, and this would not affect it. When, as I intend to do, I introduce a corresponding clause to this in the Appropriation Bill, I shall insert, "Save as provided by Clause 4."

The Secretary to the Treasury said this sort of thing had been done in 1882 or 1883, but it is rather curious that where something of this sort is wrong, the right hon. Gentleman has to go back to another Liberal Government. This sort of thing happens when Liberal Governments are in power, and this fact induces me to support the Amendment of the hon. Gentleman opposite. I do not want to make it too easy for my own side on the Front Bench or for any other Front Bench to spend money recklessly, which all parties are inclined to do.

I may say that I have not been convinced by the hon. Member for King's Lynn as to the merits of this clause, but I was so shocked by the defence made by my right hon. Friend that I have been converted to its merits. I think anyone who looks at the Bill will admit that the clause proposed by my hon. Friend is desirable. The desire of the Mover of this Amendment is to insert a provision to protect the taxpayer. I admit the difficulties put forward by my right hon. Friend, but what has he given us in defence of the course which has been taken? Simply an elaborate series of excuses about one trifling mistake, and that is the particular case of £4,000 with regard to old age pensions. My right hon. Friend does not see that this is only an illustration of a great principle, and that we are struggling for that principle. We are not to be laid aside by the right hon. Gentleman saying he is willing to come down to this House and stand in a white sheet. Let me repeat one phrase used by my right hon. Friend, and it is one of the most shocking I have ever heard from a Minister. The right hon. Gentleman said it would be inconvenient for Ministers not to be allowed to tell their subordinates to break the law.

dissented.

But the whole argument of the right hon. Gentleman was that it is convenient for Ministers to use their autocratic powers, and tell the unfortunate people in their Departments to obey them to the extent of breaking the law. I say that is a bad argument, and it is not a sound one. I think very often the officials know the law better than the Ministers, and they point out the difficulties they would get into if an illegal step is taken. The only argument used against this proposal is that it is badly drawn. How can the right hon. Gentleman expect the hon. Member for King's Lynn to draw up a clause properly, because he has not a Government draftsman at his disposal?

The words contained in this Clause have been adopted from time immemorial. The only part which is my venture is the penalty.

I know if anybody could draw up a clause it is the hon. Member for King's Lynn, but if this Clause is wrong my hon. Friend is not tied to these particular words, and I am sure he is prepared to accept an Amendment. We want the principle to be accepted, and I think I the right hon. Gentleman ought to be willing to accept a clause which will afford I this protection. I will support any necessary alteration of the words submitted which the right hon. Gentleman thinks is necessary, and if he will agree to this course it will save us from differing from him upon this question. I appeal to the right hon. Gentleman to recognise the principle involved in the Clause.

I desire to say a few words in support of the Amendment of the hon. Member for King's Lynn, and I wish to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether the inference he has drawn from the Public Accounts and Charges Act is one which can really be sustained? The objection taken by the hon. Member for King's Lynn was that money should not be diverted in the way it has been diverted, and this Clause is intended to prevent that taking place in the future. The Public Accounts and Charges Act was never intended to authorise the diversion of money at all. Its whole object was merely to prevent this money being paid into the Exchequer, and so appearing in the accounts twice over.

I should like to refer to one point made by the hon. Baronet opposite (Sir F. Banbury). Referring to one of the excuses of the right hon. Gentleman's, he said that there was no reason why the House should not have met before 16th February. I submit there is every reason, and it is the limitation of human strength and endurance. Everybody is not like the hon. Baronet. Everybody has not his indefatigable zeal and gigantic strength. I think the House meets early enough, and sits long enough to despatch the public business. To-day I asked a question of the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies which seems to me really very pertinent to the point raised by the hon. Member for King's Lynn. I asked whether a railway is being constructed from Jinga to Kakindah on the Victoria Nile.

I do not see how that arises on this new Clause.

In proposing this new Clause my hon. Friend referred to a series of iniquities to be charged to the right hon. Gentleman. I am not going to charge him with another iniquity. I asked how this railway is to be financed. The right hon. Gentleman the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies said the amount necessary for the construction will be advanced as a loan from Imperial Funds. I respectfully submit that to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is the authority who decides to what railway money should be granted and to what railway money should not be granted would be in order?.

I am afraid the hon. Member must wait till to-morrow. It might be in order on the Third Reading. It is certainly not in order on this new Clause.

I cannot claim to be a financial authority, but only a common and garden Member of the House, who mainly looks on its proceedings. I have been impressed for many years by the over-readiness with which the House votes away public money, and by the equally careless manner in which the House appears to watch the money after it has been voted and raised. My hon. Friend, as I understand, only desires to secure that the money which the House votes shall be devoted to the purpose for which the House votes it, and the only defence, as far as I have been able to gather, that has been offered is that there are times when it becomes necessary to depart from that rule, and when, at any rate, it is a great convenience to Ministers.

Not a convenience to Ministers, certainly not. My plea was that it might be of vital importance to the recipients.

My right hon. Friend says that when money has been voted to A, it is very convenient when B is short of his money he should be able to take it instead of A. That appears to me to be the line of defence he has assumed. I do not think it is a good defence, and in the interests of greater strictness in the disposal of moneys which are voted by Parliament, I propose to join my hon. Friend in the Division Lobby.

I only wish to clear up one point. My hon. Friend is under a misapprehension. I daresay it is my fault for not making the point clear. What I meant to say was that cases may arise—I can only trace two or three in twenty-five or thirty years—in which the intentions of Parliament are clear that certain payments should be made and where the funds provided by Parliament are in the aggregate sufficient, but where it is impossible under ordinary circumstances to issue money from the Exchequer to make any payment. The cash is really available, but it is impossible for the moment to turn the key and get the money out of the Exchequer. That is the only case in which I ventured to represent to the House that it was better to make a slight, a very temporary, and a fleeting infraction of the law than to put a stop to the whole machinery of payments and disbursements. With regard to the point raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Islington (Mr. Lough), the real protection of Parliament is not in any way added to by the words of the hon. Member for King's Lynn (Mr. Gibson Bowles). The real protection is the Exchequer and Audit Act, 1866, and the words of the hon. Member for King's Lynn do not add in one single particular to the protection of Parliament in this matter. The protection afforded by the Exchequer and Audit Act still remains the same, neither diminished nor increased by the proposed Amendment. If my right hon. Friend the Member for Islington were to compare the words contained in the Amendment and those in the Act, he would see no extra protection is afforded by the amending words, and that the protection afforded by the existing Act is really sufficient.

The right hon. Gentleman, in reply to my hon. Friend, said the money had been voted. That is not the fact; it has not been voted. I quoted from the Public Accounts Committee, in which they say on 28th February that the expenditure on old age pensions amounted to £1,269,000, being £69,531 in excess of the sum at that time voted by Parliament. How can you say the sum was voted by Parliament?