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Written Answers

Volume 34: debated on Wednesday 21 February 1912

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Written Answers

Home-Made Spirits (Returns)

asked the Secretary to the Treasury to explain the cause of the corrections necessitating the withdrawal of White Papers Nos. 220 and 221 and the reissue later in the year of amended Papers; whether the errors discovered are of such a nature as to affect earlier issues of these Returns; and, if so, whether any Return will be issued embodying these corrections?

In connection with home-made spirits a mistake was made in the apportionment as between England, Scotland, and Ireland of the arrears of duty proper to 1909–10, but, owing to delay in passing the Finance Bill of 1909, not actually collected till 1910–11. The error did not affect earlier issues of the Returns in question.

National Insurance Act

Training Colleges

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether bursars and students in residential or day training colleges will be deemed to be employed persons for the purposes of the National Insurance Bill?

I cannot give a definite answer to this question without more precise information as to the position that these people occupy.

Extra Police, Falcarragh, County Donegal

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he is aware that police from the adjoining stations, in charge of the district inspector, were drafted into Falcarragh, county Donegal, on the night of 8th February last; was there a disturbance or a riot expected on the occasion; if so, what grounds the authorities had for fearing it; to whom are the travelling and extra police expenses chargeable; what was the amount of such extra charges; and whether members of the local band were subjected to espionage on the part of the police during that evening?

The Inspector-General informs me that four extra police were on duty in Falcarragh on the night in question. It was expected that two local bands would turn out and parade the town, and owing to their conduct on previous occasions the presence of extra police was taken as a precautionary measure. There was no additional expense incurred by these patrols. The members of the band were not subjected to any espionage whatever.

Land Purchase (Ireland)

asked the Chief Secretary when the tenants on the Tyrrell estate, in the barony of Granard, county Longford, may expect their vesting orders; and whether he is aware that this estate was one of the first sold under the Act of 1903 in North Longford, and that the tenants of other estates in the neighbourhood sold at a later stage have long since received their vesting orders?

The Estates Commissioners are unable to identify this estate as the subject of proceedings for sale before them under the Land Purchase Acts.

asked the Chief Secretary, in view of the refusal of landlords in receipt of high rents to agree to any terms of sale to their tenants, and the consequent growing restlessness of those tenants, whether the Government propose to put the compulsory provisions of the latest Land Act in operation or to introduce a Hill this Session for universal compulsory sale without bonus?

The Estates Commissioners have no information in respect of the assumption contained in the first part of the question. Estates to the amount of over thirty-seven millions of purchase money are at present pending before the Commissioners as the result of voluntary sales by landlords to tenants. There is no intention of extending the powers of compulsory sale given by the Irish Land Act of 1909.

asked if he will state what is the latest figure of the total advances made under the various Land Purchase Acts, 1870 to 1909; how much of these advances is outstanding; what is the total value of lands applied for at the same date for which advances have not yet been made; and what is the estimated value of land for which no applications have yet been made?

A Return is being prepared for presentation to Parliament which will give the information asked for. The hon. Member will perhaps be good enough to await the presentation of the Return, which, it is hoped, will be at an early date.

Old Age Pensions

asked the Chief Secretary whether any recent instructions have been issued by the Treasury or the Local Government Board for Ireland to pension officers to question the right of old age pensioners in county Longford to be retained on the old age pension list; whether he is aware that within the past few months some twenty persons in various parts of North Longford have been deprived of their pensions by the pension officers after enjoying the same since the Act passed; whether the local pension committees have passed resolutions protesting against this officious officialism; and, if so, whether any action has been taken upon these resolutions?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the negative. As regards the latter part I will make inquiries if the hon. Member will furnish me with definite particulars of the pensioners and pension committees to whom he is referring. I would, however, remind him that the responsibility for a decision which deprives a pensioner of his pension rests not with the pension officer, but with the pension committee or with the Local Government Board in the event of an appeal.

asked the Postmaster-General the estimated cost to the Post Office in respect of the Old Age Pensions Act in each year since the Act came into operation?

The figures asked for are as under:—

£
Financial year 1908–9, estimated cost37,559
Financial year 1909–10, estimated cost96,420
Financial year 1910–11, estimated cost110,358
Financial year 19011–12, estimated cost139,225
During the three earlier years the estimate does not include the value of postal services rendered by the Post Office on old age pension account to other Government Departments, as this value cannot now be ear-marked.

Floods In Ireland (Arterial Drainage)

asked the Chief Secretary whether he is aware of the areas in Ireland recently submerged in water owing to the neglect of arterial drainage; whether any of the inspectors in the country on behalf of various departments have been asked to report on the damage to land and other property and to health from this flooding; whether he has got any estimate of the probable cost of a full and efficient system of drainage; and whether this Parliament will be asked to make any provision for dealing with this matter?

I am aware that large areas in Ireland, as well as elsewhere, have suffered from the floods occasioned by the very exceptional rainfall of this winter. It would be extremely difficult to arrive at the total loss caused by the floods, and no general report on the subject has been called for. To obtain an estimate of the cost of carrying out useful works of arterial drainage in Ireland would necessitate a survey by a staff of engineers and land valuers which would occupy several years and cost a very large sum. The answer to the last paragraph is in the negative.

Mill Street, County Cork (Notices Removed By Police)

asked whether the Chief Secretary's attention has been drawn to the posting in Mill Street, county Cork, and district of printed notices warning parents against letting their children join the British Army or Navy, and stating that a weak Army and Navy would mean the end of British tyrannical rule in Ireland; and whether he will state what action he proposes to take in the matter?

On the 18th instant the police found notices of the nature referred to posted in the Mill Street District. They were at once removed by the police, but there is no evidence to show by whom they were posted.

Naval Cadet College, Osborne

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether there are at present at Osborne College two cases of typhoid fever, two of bronchitis, one of pneumonia, and one of diphtheria; whether there are in the college altogether seventy people on the sick list; and, if so, what steps are being taken to prevent the various diseases from spreading?

There is one case of typhoid fever at Osborne, one of bronchitis, two of pneumonia, none of diphtheria. On the 18th instant seventy-two Cadets were on the sick list, almost all suffering from minor ailments. The case of typhoid fever is isolated, and the usual precautions are being taken.

Greenwich Age Pension

asked how many men who were able to join the Royal Fleet Reserve have been granted the extra 5d. a day Greenwich Age Pension since April, 1910?

The number of men who have been granted the Greenwich age pension of 5d. a day since April, 1910, is 970, all of whom were pensioned from the Navy before the establishment of the Royal Fleet Reserve, and were not members of that body.

Signal Ratings (Navy)

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is aware that there is a sense of unfair treatment amongst the signal ratings of the Navy; and whether, looking to their rates of pay, as compared with the responsibility which falls upon them in ships at sea, he can see his way to grant them an increase in their pay?

Inquiry is being made into the conditions of service and pay of the signal branch with a view to considering whether any change is required.

New Destroyers

asked whether the Admiralty have given out tenders for the building of a number of destroyers which are not provided for in the expenditure up to the 31st March next; whether the firms invited to tender were given to understand that the Admiralty intend immediately to build a new flotilla of destroyers; and why the Admiralty took this step?

As tenders take a considerable time to examine, invitations were issued last month so as to avoid delay in placing orders for any boats which may be required next financial year. The preliminary steps taken do not commit the Admiralty to giving any orders; and there is of course no intention of placing any until the sanction of Parliament has been obtained. The reply to the second part of the Noble Lord's question is in the negative.

Khaki Service Dress (Army Officers)

asked the Under-Secretary of State for War if he will explain why, in view of the fact that the officers of the Guards regiments are allowed to wear turn-down khaki collars when in khaki, the officers in other regiments of the Army are not allowed to do so, and why they are compelled to wear stiff stand-up collars either with or without the addition of a stiff linen collar; and whether he could issue regulations to the effect that all officers may wear the same kind of collars when in khaki as those worn in the Guards?

The pattern of khaki service dress for officers is now under consideration.

Territorial Forces

asked the Under-Secretary of State for War if he can state the shortage in officers and men of the Special Reserve and Territorial Forces for 1st January, 1909, 1910, 1911, and 1912?

The figures for 1st January in each year are as follows:—

Special Reserve.Territorial Force.
Officers.N.C.O.'s and Men.Officers.N.C.O.'s and Men.
19091,29311,2672,629103,410
19101,22518,0471,51839,236
19111,25321,8801,51444,106
19121,29628,3931,84645,545

The Council last met on 18th July, 1911. The Council is to meet again next month.

asked what percentage of the Territorial Infantry failed to pass the standard test in shooting during the last completed year?

As regards the Infantry, including the field companies of the Royal Engineers, 28.8 per cent. of the total strength failed to qualify in the standard test (as against 32 per cent. in the previous year), but of these 17.5 per cent. afterwards qualified by attendance at open, thirty yards, or miniature cartridge ranges under paragraph 361 (2) and (3) Territorial Force Regulations.

Weedon Ordnance Factory (Labourers' Wages)

asked whether any decision has yet been arrived at regarding the wages of skilled labourers at the Weedon Ordnance Factory?

Yeomanry Officers

asked the Under-Secretary for War whether any arrangements have been made for courses of instruction for Yeomanry officers otherwise than by attaching them to Cavalry regiments?

Arrangements have been made for courses of instruction for Yeomanry officers at the Cavalry School, Netheravon, and the Mounted Infantry School, Longmoor. These were published by Army Order 348 of December, 1911. Further, at each of the Cavalry depots, except Dunbar, courses for junior Yeomanry officers will be arranged by the General Officer Commanding-in-Chief concerned.

also asked the Under-Secretary whether he is aware that adjutants of Yeomanry have been ordered to devote four days a week for two months from now onwards for the purpose of horse registration, which greatly interferes with their regimental work during the most important time of the year for instruction and training of the men; whether this is to take place every year, or more than once during the course of the year; and whether he will arrange to have this work done by officers who are appointed for the purpose?

The duties imposed on adjutants of the Territorial Force in connection with the classification of horses should be carried out in the period from October to December each year, when the work should cause the least interference with the instruction and training of the Yeomen. Arrangements will be made to secure that in future the work shall be done at the proper time.

Redford Barracks

asked from what quarry the stone is supplied for the erection of Bedford Barracks, now in course of construction at Edinburgh?

The stone for the ashlar and rubble work for these new Cavalry barracks is obtained, as regards ashlar from the Blackpasture Quarry, Northumberland, and as regards rubble from the Doddington Quarries, Wooler, Northumberland.

Woolwich Arsenal (Book-Keepers)

asked the Under-Secretary for War whether he is aware that the maximum rate for first and second class book-keepers in Woolwich Arsenal has been reduced from £2 4s. 6d. and £1 17s. 6d. per week, fixed in 1883, to £2 2s. and £1 17s. per week; is he aware that this class of employés are expected to keep themselves in a high state of efficiency; that the minimum rate of pay for a labourer has increased during the above period from 17s. to 25s. per week, owing to the increased cost of living and rent; and will he state whether he will take immediate steps to cancel this recent order?

On a review of the wages of book-keepers in different departments of the Arsenal, new limits were recently fixed. These give improved terms to some men, but slightly reduce the maxima hitherto permissible in other cases. There has been no reduction in the wages drawn by any individual.

Army Horses

asked the Under-Secretary when he will feel able to make any statement with regard to the progress of the census of horses in the United Kingdom?

I cannot at present say when it is probable that I shall be in a position to make a complete statement on this subject. I shall be glad to give the House all the information at present available on the first opportunity.

asked the number of horses and cobs which have been purchased for the Army since 25th March, 1911; the amount which has been expended on such purchases during this period; and how much the total sum is above or below that provided for such purposes in the Estimates?

The numbers purchased in the United Kingdom since 25th March, 1911, amount to 3,119, at a cost of £141,210, which sum is £6,740 in excess of the amount provided in Estimates.

likewise asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether the remount or other department concerned was recently recommended by any officer or officers carrying out the duties of purchasing or registering available horses for military purposes in the county of Kent to purchase three specially suitable horses for Army purposes; whether the recommendation was entertained; whether any offer, if made, for the purchase of the above horses was delayed or considered inadequate by the owner; and whether these three horses, immediately after the recommendation had been forwarded to the authorities for their purchase, were sold to the German Government for army purposes?

There is no information at the War Office concerning the matter mentioned in the question. If the hon. Member requires further inquiry, perhaps he will be good enough to supply me with the necessary details concerning names and dates.

Export Of Horses

also asked the numbers of sound, or presumably sound, horses which have been exported from Great Britain into Germany and Italy during the last twelve months?

There are no statistics at the War Office to enable me to give the required information.

Non-Provided Schools, Wales

asked the President of the Board of Education whether on 31st June last a letter was addressed to the Secretary of the Board of Education calling attention to the fact that four certificated teachers in the Llanbradach Church schools under the Glamorganshire County Council were paid salaries which were lower than the salaries paid by the same local authority to certificated teachers in provided schools, and formally appealing to the Board of Education under Section 7 (3) of the Act of 1902 to determine whether the local authority were to pay the Llanbradach Church school certificated teachers the same salaries as were paid to the certificated teachers in the provided schools; and, if so, whether any reply has been sent to this communication, and what course the Government propose to take in reference to the whole matter?

asked the President of the Board of Education whether he is aware that in many of the non-provided schools in Cardiganshire the head teachers are paid lower salaries proportionately than the head teachers in the provided schools; whether such differentiation is due to sectarian reasons; whether, more than two months ago, the teachers and managers in such non-provided schools applied to the Board of Education for a declaration that the local authority were in default; and what the Board have done and intend to do in the matter?

My right hon. Friend must refer to the answer he gave on Monday to the hon. Member for the St. Albans Division of Herts on the subjects raised, a copy of which he is sending to the hon. Member and the Noble Lord. He can as yet add nothing to that statement.

Elementary Education Grants

asked the President of the Board of Education whether his attention has been called to a resolution, recently passed unanimously at a meeting of the Wilts County Association of the National Union of Teachers, to the effect that the time had now arrived when the system of grants for elementary education should be revised and simplified and the cost of conducting approved work and the ability of an area to pay should alone be the bases upon which grants are assessed; and whether he proposes to modify the system of making grants in the direction thereby contemplated?

My right hon. Friend received on Monday last from the Secretary of the Wilts County Association of the National Union of Teachers a copy of the resolution to which the hon. Member refers. The matter is one which has been engaging his attention, but he is not able to make any statement in reply to the last part of the question.

Bank Of Bombay

asked the Under-Secretary of State for India if he is aware that until recently the Bank of Bombay, or Presidency Bank, had two auditors, Mr. W. Bullock and Mr. Jamshedji A. Dalal; that, on the death of Mr. Bullock on 9th September, a special general meeting was called to elect a new auditor in his place; that Mr. J. A. Ferguson, a leading chartered accountant in Bombay, and Mr. S. Billimoria, a member of the Parsi community, were nominated, and the latter gentleman was elected, with the result that neither of the auditors is a qualified accountant; can he say whether the Government proposes to exercise any sort of supervision over the election of auditors of the Presidency Banks, namely, the Bank of Bombay, the Bank of Bengal, and the Bank of Madras, having regard to the interests dependent upon them, with a view to securing that at least one of the auditors has the training, knowledge, and experience, and possesses the diploma of a chartered accountant, or other recognised professional qualification; and, if the Government has at present no power of interfering with the action of the shareholders if they elect men without these qualifications, will they consider an alteration of the law to meet the necessities of the case?

The election of auditors for the Bank of Bombay is conducted according to the provisions of The Presidency Banks Act, which do not give the Government of India or the Secretary of State any power of interference in the matter. No alteration of the law is contemplated.

East Africa Protectorate (Northern Masai Transfer)

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he will lay Papers, in continuation of the correspondence already published, dealing with the situation created by the attempted transfer of the Northern Masai to the new southern reserve recently created for them?

The Governor of the East Africa Protectorate is expected in this country shortly, and I shall then discuss the matter further with him. In the meantime I do not propose to lay additional Papers.

Emigration To Canada (Visit Of Mr Hawkes)

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether his attention has been directed to the recent visit of Mr. Arthur Hawkes, Special Immigration Commissioner of the Canadian Government; what is the character of the representations which Mr. Hawkes has made to His Majesty's Ministers with a view to co-operation in emigration matters; and whether, in view of Mr. Hawkes' statement that something like one and a half millions of the children in the schools of this country at this moment are destined to find their way to homes beyond the seas in the Dominion of the British Empire, His Majesty's Government can see their way to adopt the proposals of the Canadian Commissioner, so as to inculcate a knowledge of the geography, history, economic and industrial conditions of the overseas dominion and the whole Empire in the primary and other schools of this country?

I am aware of Mr. Hawkes' recent visit to this country with a view to the preparation of a report for the Canadian Government on the question of emigration. I do not know what recommendations Mr. Hawkes may have made or may be about to make to the Canadian Government, nor what view the Canadian Government may take of such recommendations. I am therefore not at present in a position to discuss the matter.

Bounties On Iron And Steel (Canada)

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether any British representations have been made to the Canadian Government in regard to the proposals recently submitted to that Government by the iron and steel manufacturers of Canada for granting a renewal of the recently lapsed bounties on iron and steel; what instances there have been of the importation into this country in recent years of bounty-fed iron and steel from Canada; and whether he can give the House any information, as to the disturbance caused to British industry by such importation?

No representations on the subject have been made by His Majesty's Government. I cannot say what the importation may have been in recent years, but so far as the imports of iron and steel from Canada are distinguished in the Returns they are quite small.

Juvenile Population

asked the President of the Local Government Board the number of children in England and Wales between three and fifteen years of age, according to the Census of 1911, stating separately the numbers between three and five, between five and seven, between seven and twelve, and between twelve and fifteen years of age?

Co-Partnership (Departmental Report)

asked the President of the Board of Trade when the Departmental Report on Co-partnership will be completed?

Some preliminary work has been done on this Report, but I cannot yet indicate when it will be completed.

Trunk Telephone Lines (Dublin And Sligo)

asked the Postmaster-General whether any further steps have been taken by his Department to secure the extension of the trunk telephone line from Mullingar, where it now is, to Longford, Boyle, and Sligo, thus connecting the main line between Dublin and Sligo; and, if not, when he expects to be in a position to make a definite statement on this matter, which has now been nearly ten years under consideration?

I am now in a position to proceed with an extension of the telephone trunk line system from Mullingar to Longford without guarantee if twenty-five subscribers can be obtained to an exchange at Longford. Inquiry will also be made as to the number of subscribers to be obtained for an exchange at Carrick-on-Shannon, but the question of a further extension to that place and to Boyle and Sligo must depend upon the arrangements for the extension to Longford.

Telephone Transfer (Local Rates, Scotland)

asked the Postmaster-General whether he has received any communication from the local rating authorities in Scotland urging the necessity of maintaining the contribution of the Post Office telephone undertaking in respect of local rates, at a sum not less than the amount so receivable if the telephones had not been transferred to his Department; and whether he can give an assurance that the Scottish local authorities will not suffer any financial loss under the new regime?

I have received communications to this effect from various rating authorities in Scotland. The Government have decided to pay contributions in lieu of rates on premises taken over from the National Telephone Company in the same manner as on other Government buildings, and on lines in accordance with the assessments as they stood on 30th June last.

Postal Telegraphists' Holiday

asked the Postmaster-General whether his attention has been drawn to the case of a telegraphist employed at the Sheffield office who was unable to return from Cleethorpes after his annual leave owing to the cessation of the train service on 19th August last during the period of the general railway strike; whether he is aware that this man telegraphed to his superintendent at Sheffield explaining his position and requested a day's extra leave which was due to him and received a peremptory refusal, and that on the succeeding day, after ascertaining the uncertainty of reaching Sheffield by train, the telegraphist was compelled to engage a motor ear at a cost of £6 in order to obey the official instruction to resume duty at his appointed time; and whether, in view of the exceptional circumstances, he will consider the advisability of representing the claim for reimbursement to the Treasury?

I am aware of the case. The officer in question was not unable to return from Cleethorpes to Sheffield by train in the ordinary way. A train by which he could have travelled left Cleethorpes several hours after he received instructions to return to duty. Those instructions were necessary on account of the exceptional pressure of telegraph work at the time. The expense incurred was unauthorised, and cannot be refunded.

Saskatchewan (Emigration)

asked the President of the Board of Agriculture, whether, in view of the proposals of the Saskatchewan Government to grant assisted passages and other inducements for emigration, which may bring about a further depletion of labour in the agricultural districts of this country, he has in view any proposals for retaining this supply of labour to British farmers?

The subject is not one which can be conveniently discussed by question and answer, but I may refer to the fact that under the Development and Road Improvement Funds Act of 1909, considerable sums of money have recently been made available and are now being devoted to the development of the agricultural industry. These and other recent legislative and administrative changes should have the effect of increasing both the number and the remuneration of the labouring population in the rural districts. I shall certainly keep so desirable an object steadily in view.

House Of Commons (Members' Gallery)

asked the hon. Member for Southampton, as representing the First Commissioner of Works, whether, with a view to improving the facilities for hearing in the Members' Gallery of the House of Commons, he will give instructions for the floor, which is at present bare, to be covered with a carpet, so as to lessen the noise made by persons constantly entering and leaving the Gallery during Debates, which is a cause of annoyance to those who are seated, and frequently renders it impossible for speeches to be heard?

The First Commissioner has given instructions for the matter to be dealt with at an early opportunity by putting felt under the carpet. Should this not meet the case, other methods will be tried.

Higher Grade Schools, Scotland

asked the Lord Advocate if he will state the number of scholars attending higher grade schools in Scotland who travel daily to the school from their homes distances greater than five miles, ten miles, fifteen miles, and twenty miles, respectively; and whether, if a Return is applied for, he will furnish the proportion of such scholars attending the various higher grade schools in Scotland?

It is not possible to give these figures from the information at present in possession of the Department, nor do I think that a return such as that suggested would give information of a value at all commensurate with the labour to school boards and teachers involved in preparing it. The statistics in possession of the Department, however, show that out of 4,750 bursars attending intermediate and secondary schools who were awarded new bursaries last session (the latest period for which full returns are available) not more than 550, or less than 12 per cent. of the whole, do not reside at home.

asked the Lord Advocate if he can state the number of higher grade pupils under the burgh boards of Scotland and in the rural higher grade schools, respectively, who have begun the intermediate course and have remained on to complete the full three years' course of study and have afterwards sat for the intermediate certificate examination, and what percentage of the total starting the course in each category have taken the intermediate certificate; and also, with reference to rural higher grade schools, what is the average cost per pass, based on the total annual charge as far as statistics are available, including, if possible, interest and repayment of loans, teaching, administration and upkeep charges, bursaries, and travelling allowances?

The normal duration of the intermediate course is three years after the stage of the qualifying examination. Thus the pupils present for the intermediate certificate in 1911 were enrolled in the intermediate course in the session 1908–9. The following table shows the average attendance in the first and second year of the intermediate course from 1906–7 onwards, the number of pupils presented for the intermediate certificate in 1909, 1910, and 1911, and the numbers who were successful in obtaining the certificate in these years:—

Session.Average Attendance in the Intermediate Course.Number of Pupils Presented for the Intermediate CertificateNumber of Certificates Awarded.
1st year.2nd year.
1906–78,7345,719
1907–89,6346,018
1908–910,2456,9483,2122,058
1909–1010,6397,6033,4882,482
1910–1110,3737,3823,8422,998
The figures apply to higher grade schools only,

i.e., to all schools in receipt of Grants under Chapter IX. of the Code for Day Schools. The statistics of the Department are not in a form which enables me to give the figures in the two separate categories described in the question. It is not possible to give the average cost per pass as suggested, but if it were the figure would be entirely misleading. By far the greater portion of the cost would have to be incurred in any case were no intermediate curriculum provided.