asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the Société d'Etude, before proceeding further with the scheme for a Trans-Persian railway, will consult with and ascertain the views of the Persian Government with regard to this project?

Till the Société d'Etude has decided whether any project is feasible I do not see what object there can be in consulting the Persian Government. If and when this question is answered in the affirmative the Persian Government must, of course, be consulted, as nothing can be done without their consent.

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland if he can say why the Estates Commissioners are not taking steps to reinstate the evicted ten ants at Aughanish, in the county of Limerick, on the estate of Lane Joynt; and, having regard to the fact that these evicted tenants have been out of their holdings for the past twenty years, will he say why the Estates Commissioners are not putting into operation the compulsory provisions of the Land Act, 1909, with the object of reinstating them without further delay?

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to his question on this subject on the 28th March last.

May I ask why the Estates Commissioners will not carry out the agreements entered into between the landlord and the evicted tenants for the purchase of the estate having regard to the fact that all the tenants on this estate with one exception are tenants living on holdings on another estate, and are good security for the purchase money and are quite satisfied with the price they have agreed on with the landlord for the purchase of their holdings on this estate?

My answer in the former case was that the difficulty does not arise in connection with any of those matters but because the Estates Commissioners will not sanction the purchase of the estate until they have secured the maintenance and repair of an embankment on which safety actually depends. Until that agreement is come to the matter is hung up.

I quite appreciate what the right hon. Gentleman says but may I ask having regard to the fact that all the tenants on this estate are solvent tenants who have other holdings on which they live, and are some of the biggest tenants in county Limerick, why it is the Commissioners will not actually sanction the agreement between them and the landlord, under which agreement the evicted tenants are to be reinstated in their holdings out of which they have been for twenty years?

If the tenants are of the solvent and admirable character described why do they not enter into an agreement for the maintenance of the embankment?

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that those tenants have actually agreed to pay £300, part of the upkeep of the embankment which is £500, on the condition that the Commissioners would advance this £300 to be repaid with the purchase money over a period of sixty-eight and a half years, and in proportion to their rent?

asked the Chief Secretary whether he is aware that Scotland, with a population of 4,760,000, enjoys an Imperial contribution of £2,580,000 towards public education—that is, 10.84s. per head—whereas Ireland, with a population of 4,381,000, only receives £2,007,000—that is, 9.162s. per head, some £367,000 less than her fair proportion; and whether he will approach the Treasury with a view to securing better treatment?

The comparison which the hon. and gallant Member draws between the amounts voted for public education in Scotland and Ireland is not strictly accurate. The amounts which he quotes include provision not only for purely educational purposes, but also for museums and national galleries. Moreover, the figures given for Scotland include the Grant towards secondary and technical education, whereas in the case of Ireland no account is taken of the Grants from the Vote for the Department of Agriculture for these purposes. I am in constant communication with the Treasury with a view to the improvement of Irish education.

asked the Chief Secretary whether the officers and men of the Royal Irish Constabulary have been allowed to nominate a committee of officers and a committee of non-commissioned officers to represent their views of their position under the proposed Government of Ireland Bill; and, if so, will he undertake to lay the Reports of those committees upon the Table of the House?

The officers and men of the Royal Irish Constabulary have been allowed to nominate committees for the purpose mentioned in the question, but I am not prepared to lay the representations made to me by these committees on the Table of the House.

Will the right hon. Gentleman state his reasons for not allowing the House to have full knowledge of what takes place with those committees appointed for the purpose of considering the position of servants of all classes in Ireland under the Bill?

I am in constant communication and negotiation with divers persons in Ireland, Civil servants, Clerks of the Crown, Royal Irish Constabulary, and others, with a view to meeting, as far as we possibly can, and I hope we may completely succeed in doing so, any differences of opinion that may exist between us. That would not be facilitated by publishing those negotiations.

Would it not be of value to this House to hear both sides?

I have no doubt the House will hear from the representatives of any parties who feel themselves aggrieved their point of view, but I hope to relieve them of the necessity of hearing them at all.

asked whether, under the Government of Ireland Bill, the Irish Government will be able to maintain commercial agents or other representatives in foreign countries or in the Dominions?

The answer to this question depends upon what the hon. Member understands by "commercial agents" or representatives. If he means Consuls or Agents accredited to foreign or Colonial Governments, the answer is in the negative. On the other hand, it is easy to conceive cases of representatives who might be maintained by the Irish Government within their powers—for instance, a representative of an Irish Department at a foreign or Colonial exhibition.

Am I to understand from that answer, though a representative is not duly accredited, he may be in a foreign country for any purpose for which the Irish Government care to keep him?

It would depend to some extent on the circumstances, but I should think the real difference would be whether he was formally accredited, whether he held any formal office as Consul or not.

Are we to understand that the Irish Government will not be able to send commercial agents, such as, for instance, the Government of New Brunswick and the Government of Victoria send to this country, to represent them commercially?

I do not quite know on what terms those agents are appointed. Speaking generally, it would not be open to the Irish Government to appoint a Consul or person formally and regularly accredited by one Government to another.

asked the Chief Secretary whether any rule exists debarring the sons of head constables from competing for cadetships, in the Royal Irish Constabulary; and, if so, under what Schedule is it to be found?

There is no rule debarring any particular class of persons from competing for cadetships in the Royal Irish Constabulary, but it has not been considered desirable in the public interest to nominate the sons of members of the force below the rank of District Inspector.

I may take it from that, that there is no objection to considering the circumstances mentioned in the question?

If I may say so, I take a very broad democratic view on these matters. There are differences of opinion on the matter, but I can assure the hon. and gallant Member I am quite ready to consider any application.

asked the Chief Secretary if his attention has been called to the action of the guardians of the Cootehill Union in censuring an inmate of the workhouse for having put two of her children into the service of Protestants, and in ordering the detention of this inmate against her will; and if the woman is now at liberty?

The woman referred to on two occasions took her discharge from the workhouse with her four children, who were registered as Roman Catholics, and returned after a few days, having placed each time one child in service in a Protestant house. The guardians then decided to assume parental control over the remaining children, and gave directions that they were not to be allowed to leave the workhouse without the authority of the guardians. The woman applied for permission to leave the workhouse with her children, which application was refused by the master pending the meeting of the guardians. The matter eventually came before the King's Bench, when an order was made directing the master of the workhouse to give the mother and her two children their immediate discharge, which has been done.

asked what is the cause of delay on the part of the Estates Commissioners in carrying out the report of their inspector for the improvement of the holdings of the tenants on the Mahony estate, at Mount Collins, Abbeyfeale, in the county of Limerick, which has been declared to be a congested estate?

The Estates Commissioners inform me that the report of their inspector is under consideration.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how long it has been under consideration, and when will it be put into practice?

I cannot answer that question without notice, but I will direct their attention to the fact that the hon. Member wishes them to hurry up.

asked whether the representatives of the late Mr. Cornelius Power have signed a purchase agreement for the lands of Ballinahinch, Knocklong, county Limerick, on the Gascoyne estate; if so, are the Commissioners aware that this land is and has been let on the eleven months' system for years; whether the people who own it have already bought lands in other parts of county Limerick up to £7,000; and, in view of the dissatisfaction which prevails in this district, will steps be taken to buy this land and divide it among the small holders and labourers in the district?

The estate of Colonel Gascoyne in county Limerick was sold direct by the vendor to the tenants under the Irish Land Act, 1903, and the purchase money has been advanced and the holdings vested in the purchasing tenants. No agreement signed by Cornelius Power or his representatives for the purchase of his holding on this estate was lodged with the Estates Commissioners, and the holding in question was not therefore included in the sale, which was completed some time ago.

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he was aware that during the past eight years a number of junior assistant mistresses were appointed in national schools in which the average ranged from 35 to 50, and that, by the rules of the Commissioners, such of these teachers as were appointed previous to the issue of the 1910–11 Rules became qualified for promotion to the position of untrained assistant upon being admitted to the King's Scholarship Examination and passing the said examination, and that the conditions referred to constituted a binding engagement on the part of the Commissioners to promote all such teachers to untrained assistantships upon satisfying the Commissioners as above mentioned in accordance with the rules which obtained at the time of their appointment; and whether, seeing that many cases of hardship had occurred to such teachers by the failure of the Commissioners to carry out their own engagements entered into with these teachers at the time of their appointment, by now requiring such teachers to pass in the first or second division instead of passing the examination, by raising the percentage required for second division from 55 to 60, by the introduction of a new rule in the Rules for 1911–12, to the effect that in the event of the average attendance in the schools reaching 50, the services of such teachers would be dispensed with and their places filled by fully qualified assistants, he would take steps to remedy the grievances complained of?

The Commissioners of National Education inform me that junior assistant mistresses were eligible for appointment as assistants under the conditions stated in the question until the Rules of 1909–10 were issued. Under those rules all candidates for appointment as assistants are required to pass the King's Scholarship Examination in the first or second division. There is no engagement on the part of the Commissioners to promote junior assistant mistresses, but the latter are allowed the privilege of qualifying for promotion under the rules in force for the time being. The Commissioners are not aware of any cases of hardship which can rightly be attributed to the above change in the rules.

If I bring special cases before the right hon. Gentleman will he consider them?

I am in communication myself upon the subject, but I shall be glad to be reinforced by any special cases the hon. Member can supply.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for India whether he was aware of the circumstances under which the Viceregal assent was refused to the Orissa Tenancy Bill; and whether, in refusing his assent, the Viceroy acted contrary to the recommendations of his proper official advisers and without inviting any expression of opinion from the Lieutenant-Governor?

This Bill, which was of a contentious character, was passed in the Bengal Legislative Council four days before the new Province of Bihar and Orissa was constituted. It affects only territories which are within the new Province, and during the Debates it had been opposed by representatives of Bihar and Orissa. By withholding his assent the Governor-General has left the Legislative Council of the new province free to deal with matters vitally affecting the agrarian interests of Orissa. The reasons for His Excellency's action on the Bill, as to the merits of which he expressed no opinion, have been duly explained to the local government. The power of withholding assent from an Act of a local legislature rests by law with the Governor-General personally, and is not vested in the Governor-General in Council. The Secretary of State is satisfied that in the present case that power has been wisely exercised.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for India whether he was aware that in the matter of the acquisition of land in Manza Timarpur, Tahsil, Delhi, under Punjaub Government Gazette Notification No. 775, dated 21st December, 1911, the extra assistant commissioner and land acquisition officer at Delhi made the following valuation for purposes of compensation: land Rs.16,549, trees Rs.271, wells Rs.1,800, and buildings Rs.21,770; whether he was aware that this Report was then submitted to the deputy-commissioner for orders; that the deputy-commissioner accepted the valuation of land, trees, and wells, but, with regard to buildings, remarked that regard was not to be had to the cost of the buildings, some of which may have cost Rs.16,000 or Rs.18,000, but which had been put up as a speculation and did not let well; and that he therefore ordered the value of the buildings to be reduced from Rs.21,770 to Rs.4,800; whether he was aware that since 1905 Rs.20,000 had been expended on some of these buildings, for which the total compensation now offered was Rs.4,800; and if he would state whether the Government of India did not propose to take into consideration, in making these awards, the cost of buildings recently erected upon the land?

In assessing the building at its market value and not at what it may have cost, the deputy commissioner followed the instructions of the Land Acquisition Act of 1894. The owner, if dissatisfied with the amount of compensation offered to him by the revenue officer, can require the latter to refer the case for determination to the Civil Court, which will take evidence and hear counsel as in a regular civil suit. With reference to the last part of the question, compensation for buildings on land acquired for public purposes at Delhi, will be claimable in accordance with the ordinary law on the subject, which has been in force for the last eighteen years. There is no intention to depart from it in any respect.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for India whether he had now received the report asked for anent the case of James Garstin, who was dismissed from the boiler department of the Oudh and Rohilikhand State Railway under circumstances which seemed to call for further investigation; and whether he had taken any action in the matter?

The Secretary of State has received no report on this case. He is aware that James Garstin submitted a memorial to his address, and that this memorial was withheld by the Government of India under its discretionary powers, Garstin's salary being less than Rs.250 a month. The Secretary of State does not propose to take any action in the matter.

Is it not proposed to ask for a report? I understood, on the last occasion when the question was up, that a report was being written for?

When the hon. Gentleman asked me a question on a former occasion I informed him that if the salary was over 250 rupees a month the man would have a right of appeal to the Secretary of State, but in cases where the salary is under 250 Rupees a month the discretion is vested in the Governor-General. It is in accordance with these powers the Government of India acted.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether in vestigations had been made by the Government of British East Africa as to the healthiness of the new Southern Reserve recently allotted to the Masai; and whether any part of the Reserve was in the area where the tsetse fly is found?

The Reserve has been visited by officials of the East Africa Protectorate, and, in view of their reports, I have no reason to suppose that the country is not a healthy one. It would be impossible to give an absolute negative to the last question of my hon. Friend without a prolonged investigation by experts. But the evidence before me seems to negative any idea of the fly being prevalent, and I need hardly say that I should not have sanctioned the removal of the Masai to the Southern Reserve if I had grounds for even suspecting that it was open to objection on that account.

asked how much Government land there is in Uganda and British East Africa suitable for cultivation which has not yet been leased or sold?

I would refer the hon. Member to the Return (No. 68) relating to land in Crown Colonies and Protectorates which was ordered by the House to be printed on the 19th March.

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell the House whether the, new railways in East Africa will run mainly through Crown lands or privately owned land?

I cannot deal with that in answer to a question.

asked the hon. Member for St. George's-in-the-East, as representing the First Commissioner of Works, if he could state approximately the amount of work given out to contract by the Department and the amount done by direct labour; what were the general grounds which determined the policy of the Department as to whether a particular piece of work should be done by contract or by direct labour; and whether the regular repair work in the various Government buildings was done by contract or otherwise?

The policy of the Department is to have work executed under contract, practically the only direct labour employed being in connection with the Royal Parks and certain ancient monuments situate in remote places. The regular repair work in the various Government buildings is executed under maintenance contracts.

asked what recent facilities had been given in the Royal parks for playgrounds for children; and had any application been received from the London County Council for an in crease of such facilities?

Grounds for organised games for London County Council school children have been allotted as follows:—

asked the Secretary to the Treasury whether he could now communicate the result of the consideration by the Advisory Committee of the question of the exclusion of married women outworkers from the operations of the National Insurance Act?

asked the Secretary to the Treasury whether he was aware that the Advisory Committee passed a unanimous resolution recommending the inclusion of married women outworkers in the National Insurance Act; and whether, in consequence of this opinion the Insurance Commissioners contemplated the inclusion of married women outworkers in the Act?

Regulations embodying the recommendations of the Hatch Report (and made in accordance with the powers given in paragraph 10 of the Third Schedule of the Act), which enable employers of outworkers to pay contributions with reference to the amount of work done instead of the full weekly contributions, have been accepted by the Advisory Committee, and will be published immediately. This new system is recommended by the Advisory Committee to apply equally to the married women at present excluded as well as to other outworkers, and removes the bulk of the objections which were raised against paying full week's contributions for married women who might do a very small amount of work in a particular week. The Advisory Committee have recommended, practically unanimously, that in these circumstances no difference should be made between married and single women. I propose shortly, therefore, to submit a special Order to bring in married women under the same conditions as the single. This special Order will, if objection is taken, be subject to inquiry by an impartial person, and can be adapted to the necessities of any particular localities as a result of such inquiry.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the advisability of issuing a special explanatory leaflet for circulation in the county of Somerset?

I regard the county of Somerset as one of the places where a. special inquiry is desirable. I am in communication with the Members from Somerset, and they quite agree that it is a desirable course to pursue.

asked why an exception to the general method of appointment was made in the case of the two intelligence officers recently appointed by the Welsh Insurance Commissioners; whether the duties of these officers were specially suitable for being tested by examination; and whether both officers were able to deliver addresses on the National Insurance Act effectively in the Welsh language; and whether future appointments under the Welsh Insurance Commissioners, other than the outdoor staff, would be made on the results of examinations conducted by the Civil Service Commissioners?

I propose to take questions Nos. 22 and 23 together. As I explained, in answer to my hon. Friend on the 13th instant, the two officers mentioned in the first question were selected after advertisement by the Welsh Insurance Commissioners, who were assisted by a Civil Service Commissioner. The answer to the second part of the question is in the negative, and to the third in the affirmative. The answer to the second question is in the affirmative, except as regards any posts requiring special professional qualifications or cases of special urgency, or transfers of persons already in the Government service in other Departments.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say why an exception was made in this case?

I say that they were selected, after advertisement, by the Welsh Insurance Commission, assisted by a Civil Service Commissioner, on the ground of special urgency.

Without examination?

If my hon. Friend will examine the report he will find it advised that in cases of special urgency an examination may be dispensed with.

As the advertisements were out for some weeks, I do not see where the special urgency arises.

asked whether it is the intention of the Insurance Commissioners to refuse to grant certificates under paragraph (b), Part II., First Schedule, National Insurance Act, 1911, unless the local or other public authority applying for the certificate agrees to provide transfer values for insured persons transferred to other approved societies under Clause 31 of the Act?

The applications made by the different public authorities for any class of their employès to be excepted from insurance under the Act will be considered on their merits. The provision of a sum analogous to transfer value on an employè leaving their employment would be taken into account, and the question of whether it would be insisted on in the case of a particular application would depend upon a consideration of the scheme submitted as a whole.

asked the Secretary to the Treasury if he will state what are the reserve values under the National Insurance Act in the case of men aged fifty-seven and sixty-seven, respectively?

I would refer the hon. Member to the Reserve Value Tables published in Cd. 6170. He will see that the reserve value for men of the age of fifty-seven is £9 16s. 6d. in Great Britain, and £9 2s. in Ireland. No reserve values have been prepared for the age of sixty-seven since under Section 49 (3) of the National Insurance Act no reserve value is to be credited in respect of persons of that age.

Are we then to understand that persons between sixty-five and seventy have got to pay full contributions, and that they will only receive benefits at the discretion of the societies to which they belong?

No; persons between sixty-five and seventy are specially provided for under the Act. A table has been issued by the Actuarial Committee of the Insurance Commission showing what benefits should be payable to them appropriate to their age and their subscriptions.

asked whether any change, and, if so, what has been produced in the initial liability for reserve values under the National Insurance Act and in the period for extinguishing that liability, due to an assumed expectation of sickness different from that assumed by Messrs. Hardy and Wyatt in the actuarial memorandum presented to Parliament last year?

I would refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave him on the 10th instant. The assumed expectation of sickness, and the calculations based on it, are substantially the same in both cases.

Is there no difference?

No, the reserve values have been calculated, and the figures tested, by other examples besides those adopted by Messrs. Hardy and Wyatt, and the results come out substantially the same.

asked the Secretary to the Treasury whether his attention has been drawn to circulars issued by various employers of labour, all couched in practically the same terms and all offering inducements to the employés to join an approved society being promoted by the Prudential Insurance Company; whether he has made inquiries to ascertain if these circulars are paraphrases of one issued by the Prudential Insurance Company to employers; whether he is aware that these circulars are accompanied by blank forms which the employés are requested to fill in stating the societies to which they are to attach themselves, and that various employers of labour have given facilities to agents of the Prudential Insurance Company to enter their works and interrogate the workmen; and whether, before the National Insurance Commissioners give their approval to the Prudential Society, careful inquiries will be made as to the means adopted by the parent company to get members for that society?

No such circulars have been brought to my notice. The offer made by the Prudential Company to employers, on which the circulars referred to are presumably based, has been withdrawn by that company, and any employer who thinks that an arrangement, e.g., for having the cards of his employés stamped by an approved society is possible, is under a misapprehension. I understand, however, that many employers have been willing to allow addresses to be given on the Insurance Act on their premises by representatives of the big friendly societies and other approved societies, besides the Prudential.

asked the Secretary to the Treasury whether he will say who is to decide, for the purposes of the National Insurance Act, what is the value of the wage received by an agricultural labourer who receives 13s. a week in cash and a cottage and garden free of rent and rates; and on what basis is the value of the cottage to be assessed?

also asked the Secretary to the Treasury if he will say who is to decide, for the purposes of the National Insurance Act, what is the value of the wage of an agricultural labourer who receives 14s. a week in cash, has his coal hauled free of cost, and has free a piece of land ploughed and manured for potatoes; and, in the event of the master or man disputing the value placed upon these perquisites, who is to give the final decision?

The value of such additions to wages as a cottage and garden free of rent and rates, a free haulage of coal, etc., will be reckoned in calculating the rate of remuneration. If the value is not agreed at first between the employer and employé, application would be made to the Customs and Excise officer, who is usually the pension officer, who would, if possible, bring about an agreement. Failing that, the question will be settled by the Commissioners in accordance with Regulations under Section 66 of the Act for the determination of such a dispute.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how this money is to be taken into account; is it to be spread over the whole of the year or taken only for a few weeks?

I should not like to be bound by the answer, but I think there is no possibility of dealing with it except week by week.

Would the right hon. Gentleman consider the desirability of making some public statement by which he would be bound, as the question is one of extreme importance?

If the hon. Gentleman will put a question down, I will give him an answer.

Is not the arrangement an extremely complicated one to impose on agricultural labourers, and will it not be likely to operate disadvantageously?

If the hon. Gentleman can suggest any better arrangement we will gladly take it into consideration.

asked the Secretary to the Treasury whether he can state, on the basis of the last valuations, the amount of surplus or deficiency in each of the friendly societies which have become approved societies or have applied for approval, and, in the case of a society with branches, of each branch of such society?

The information asked for would require to be collated from many thousands of returns; and I am not prepared to ask officials to leave the urgent work on which they are engaged in connection with bringing the National Insurance Act into operation in order to tabulate it.

Is not a great deal of the information contained in the Report of the Registrar-General of Friendly Societies, and is it not a matter of vital importance to insured persons that they should know whether the societies they join are solvent or not?

No, I do not think so. Whether or not the societies were solvent before they joined has nothing to do with the question. The new society will only deal with money under the Government scheme.

asked the Secretary to the Treasury if he will state what is the position of yachtsmen under the National Insurance Act who may be employed as such for two to three months from the 15th July, and will then return to their winter pursuits of crofters or fishermen on their own behalf, to again take up the employment of yachtsmen in April or May?

While employed as yachtsmen these persons will be compulsorily insured, and during the rest of the year they will be entitled to be insured as voluntary contributors.

asked whether bricklayers, carpenters, sawyers, and men assisting them, employed all the year round on general estate works on a private estate, are included in the list of workmen in insured trades under Part II. of the National Insurance Act?

I would refer the hon. Member to the written answer which I gave to a similar question put by the hon. Member for Chelmsford on the 20th June last, of which I am sending the hon. Member a copy.

What steps, may I ask, have been taken to circulate the Memoranda in regard to Part II. to hon. Members; those who signed the Paper to get all circulars on the Insurance Act have not received these Memoranda?

I will see to the matter.

What would happen in the case of a sawyer who saws only for a short time?

asked when the decision of the Treasury with reference to the allocation of Grants to the harbours on the Moray Firth would be announced?

I hope to be able to communicate the decision to the several harbour authorities concerned almost immediately.

Will the right hon. Gentleman at the same time indicate when the allocation of Grants from the Development Commissioners will be made to the harbours further North?

I think the question dealt only with the Moray Firth. I will find out about that.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will say what was the total number of motor tyres imported into the United Kingdom from foreign countries during the year 1911; and what was the declared value at the port of entry?

Motor tyres are not at present separately distinguished on importation into the United Kingdom, and their value is therefore included in the general total for parts of motor cars and parts of motor cycles. I regret, therefore, that the desired information is not available.

As there are hundreds of thousands of these tyres running into millions of pounds, imported into the United Kingdom cannot these figures be furnished in the future?

I think there is something to be said in favour of that. I will refer the point to the Departmental Committee, but the figures would not be available till the autumn.

asked the President of the Board of Trade, whether he is aware that breech-loading sporting guns are required by the Gun Barrel Proof Act, 1868, to pass two obligatory proof tests, namely, the provisional proof of barrels when in the condition of manufacture called the tube state, which is the state in which gunmakers purchase them, and the definite proof of the gun when it has been sufficiently advanced in manufacture for cartridges to be fired from it; that the barrel in the tube state is recogisned as being the barrel-maker's finished production, and that special skill and machinery are necessary to produce the barrel in this state; that about 90 per cent. of the barrels sent in the tube state to the English proof houses to be provisionally proved are of foreign make and do not bear any indication of foreign origin or manufacturer's name; whether he is aware that this defect in the Proof Act has caused and is causing injury to the English gun-barrel trade and to the English gun trade generally; and whether he will shortly introduce legislation requiring the English proof houses to stamp foreign barrels and firearms with different provisional and definitive proof marks from those stamped upon barrels and firearms of British make?

The Schedule to the Gun Barrel Proof Act of 1868 provides that such guns "shall be proved provisionally and definitively, or, at the request in writing of the person or persons sending the barrels for proof, shall be proved once only, in which case such barrels shall be sent in the state for definitive proof." In practice, no doubt, the system of double proof generally prevails, but the proof houses are not in a position to say what proportion of the barrels submitted for provisional proof are of foreign manufacture. The course suggested in the last part of the question raises considerable difficulties both of principle and practice, and I am not satisfied that a case for legislation has been made out. The Board of Trade would, however, be prepared to receive and consider any information as to the character and extent of any practical grievance that may be felt, or as to the views of the various interests affected, including the makers both of guns and of barrels.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that when the Act of 1868 was passed nearly the whole of the barrels were of English manufacture, and that now, under the altered conditions of trade, the vast majority are of foreign manufacture; and is he aware that Section 132 of the 1868 Act practically constitutes a daily evasion of the Merchandise Marks Act?

If the hon. Gentleman will send me precise information it will be carefully considered.

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will state the variation of the average price of a quarter of wheat and the four-pound loaf during the years 1900–11, inclusive?

The index numbers of prices given in the Prices Section of the Fifteenth Abstract of Labour Statistics show that, if prices in 1900 be represented by 100, the price of British wheat rose to 137.2 in 1909 and fell to 117.7 in 1911. The changes in the average declared values of imported wheat were similar, namely. 136.0 in 1909, and 116.8 in 1911, as compared with 100 in 1900. The retail price of household bread did not vary so much, being 119.9 in 1909, and 104.3 in 1911, as compared with 100 in 1900. The fluctuations in these and other years will be found in the volume referred to.

Will the hon. Gentleman answer my question, which was: What was the variation in the price of a quarter of wheat?

I think the volume gives it in so far as it is not contained in this answer. If what the hon. Member asks for is not properly conveyed, I will give it further attention.

asked the Postmaster-General whether he is aware that on the 14th, 15th, 18th, 21st, 29th, 30th, and 31st May, and on the 4th, 5th, and 8th of June this year dense black smoke was observed issuing from the chimney shaft of the Post Office factory at Mount Pleasant, E.C.; and whether, in view of the previous complaints made by the public health committee of the borough of Finsbury on the 9th August, 1910, and the 2nd February, 1911, he can state whether any steps are being taken to carry out the repeated promises issued in his name that this nuisance will be discontinued?

As a consequence of the miners' strike, the coal recently delivered at Mount Pleasant was of such a quality as to render smokeless combustion impossible, but coal of a better quality is now being obtained, and it is anticipated that, when this is delivered, the discharge of black smoke will cease. If not, such further measures as may be practicable will certainly be taken.

asked what is the estimated consumption of wheat and wheat flour in the United Kingdom during the year 1911; and what was the total quantity of exports of wheat from the British Empire during that year?

The total quantity of wheat (including flour in equivalent of grain) available for consumption in the United Kingdom in 1911, was 267,801,000 bushels. Complete information as to the exports of the Empire is not available for 1911, but in 1910 the total export of British wheat from various parts of the Empire other than the United Kingdom was approximately 164,800,000 bushels.

May I ask if the wheat exported from the Dominions and dependencies overseas does not practically constitute 70 per cent. of the total estimated wheat consumed in this country?

That is a calculation that might easily be made but scarcely in answer to a question.

Does not a great deal of the wheat of the Colonies go to other countries and not to the United Kingdom at all?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will issue a circular showing whether, under the Shops Act, medical appliances include spectacles and whether the shops where they are sold are exempt from the half-holiday closing, as under the National Insurance Act spectacles are included in the list of medical appliances?

I do not think there can be much doubt that the words "medical and surgical appliances" in the second Schedule include spectacles, and that a shop may be kept open for their sale on the day of the weekly half-holiday; but the Home Secretary has no authority to decide the point, and it would be impossible for the Department to undertake to advise as to the application of the Act in particular cases.

asked the Prime Minister if he can now state the terms of reference to the Interdepartmental Committee on Fisheries; and how the Committee is to be constituted?

asked the names and the terms of reference of the Interdepartmental Committee which is to consider and report on territorial waters, the three-mile limit, and international rights connected therewith?

In reply to this and Question 47, the terms of reference proposed for the Interdepartmental Committee are as follows:—

"To consider if it is practicable or desirable to extend for fishery purposes the limits of territorial waters, and whether prohibition or further regulation as to the methods or times of sea fishing are desirable, more particularly in relation to trawling for herring, and to report accordingly."

The members of the Committee are:—

The Right Hon. Charles Hobhouse, M.P. (Chairman).

Mr. C. H. Tufton, of the Foreign Office.

Mr. R. H. Rew, of the Board of Agriculture.

Professor D'Arcy Thompson, Scottish Delegate and member of the International Council for the Exploration of the North Sea.

Mr. A. F. Whyte, M.P.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the importance of housing conditions on the welfare of the working classes and their bearing on industrial unrest, as mentioned by him in his speech on last Friday, he proposes to do anything to further housing reform this Session; and whether he will give facilities at an early date for the consideration of the Housing of the Working Classes Bill?

I have conferred with my right hon. Friend, who is desirous that the Housing of the Working Classes Bill should pass into law this Session. If it appears likely that the Bill, subject to the Amendments promised by my right hon. Friend in Standing Committee, will be accepted in its present form, I will see whether it is possible to give time for its further stages, but I cannot at present give any definite pledge.

Will my right hon. Friend obtain, before the time of this House is taken up, some sort of pledge that the Bill shall not be mutilated in another place?

That is beyond my power.

asked the Prime Minister if it is his intention to introduce the Bill for the reform of the House of Lords during the present Session?

The answer is in the negative.

Is it the intention of the Government to pass the franchise before the reform of the House of Lords, and, if so, what is the meaning of the phrase, "Brooks no delay."

I have nothing to add to what I have already said.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is aware that the Grant-in-Aid in Ireland has fallen off considerably in late years owing to the increased number of mentally deficient persons admitted to the district asylums; and whether, in view of the resolutions of the Irish division of the Medico-Psychological Association of Great Britain and Ireland, the committee of management of the County Down District Asylum, and other similar bodies, he will take steps to have Ireland included in the scope of the Bill now before Parliament?

asked the Secretary of State whether he will favourably entertain an Amendment to the Mental Deficiency Bill, extending its scope to Ireland?

My right hon. Friend is aware that the Local Taxation (Ireland) Account was insufficient to meet in full the claims against it in 1910–11 and 1911–12, owing to the increase of certain charges, and especially of the Capitation Grant for the maintenance of lunatic poor in county asylums; but as my right hon. Friend stated in reply to a question on the 17th instant, the existing law in Ireland differs so much from that of this country, that it will be convenient to deal with the question of the mentally deficient in Ireland in a separate Bill.

Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that there is a general demand that this Bill, which could be applied to Ireland with small modifications, should be extended to Ireland, and to save time?

I shall be very glad to consider any general representations of that kind.

Does not the fact that a question is put down to that effect by the hon. Member for South Down (Mr. MacVeagh) and myself show a good deal of unanimity?

I think it is an unusual circumstance, which might very well be taken into account as an additional reason.

Have the Government definitely decided to introduce a separate Bill for Ireland dealing with the subject of mentally deficient?

I cannot answer that question.

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department upon what Section of the Burial Act, 1900, his decision to refuse sanction to the application of the Normanton Burials Board for the consecration of the whole of a piece of land lately added to the upper cemetery was based; and whether he is aware that there is ample provision of unconsecrated ground in the adjoining or lower cemetery, and that in consequence each addition made to the upper cemetery up to the present has been in fact consecrated in accordance with the wishes of the inhabitants?

The enactment which governs this matter is Section 1 of the Burial Act, 1900. Under that Section the authority to consecrate is limited to "any portion of the burial ground approved by the Secretary of State." The burial board desired the consecration of the whole ground: but my right hon. Friend was unable to sanction this, because as he informed the hon. Member in answer to his question on 16th May last, he was empowered by the Statute to approve of the consecration of a portion only of the ground. In these circumstances, the consideration mentioned in the latter part of this question could not affect the point.

asked whether it is the right hon. Gentleman's intention to appoint a Committee to inquire into the question of illumination standards; if so, will he say when it is to be appointed; of how many it will consist; and whether he will see that a Scottish representative will be put on it?

I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer which the Home Secretary gave to the hon. Member for West Clare on the 16th May. It is the intention to appoint a Committee, and its constitution is now under consideration. The Committee will be a Committee of experts, and questions of the representation of particular parts of the country or particular industries will not arise. I cannot give any further details at present.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he will receive a deputation next week of people interested in the leather trade to find means of making boots for the Navy entirely of English leather?

As I have explained in previous replies, an invitation has been twice extended to the Light Leather Trades' Federation to test this matter further in the only practicable way, by production of samples and prices for expert examination and comparison. The Federation have not yet responded to this invitation. When this essential preliminary step has been taken, I shall be willing to confer further with the trade, if necessary.

asked if the right hon. Gentleman will say how many pairs of boots partly made of Ger man leather were delivered to the Adriralty during the last financial year?

The change of pattern of the Navy boot, introducing box-calf for uppers, was effected in the latter part of 1911, and contracts are now in course of execution, the bulk of deliveries under which will fall in the current financial year. Either English or foreign box-calf leather may be used for the uppers. I should say that the great bulk of leather for the uppers of the boots is, in the present state of English production of this quality, obtained by the contractors from foreign sources, but I am making inquiries.

Can the hon. Member say whether the box-calf of the sealed pattern used is not now made out of chrome-tanned leather, instead of vegetable-tanned leather, and therefore of a foreign nature?

That point arises in answer to a subsequent question.

asked whether, in view of the different appearance of English and foreign box-calf leather, he will arrange in future that the uppers of the Admiralty-pattern boot are made of English leather?

asked whether, referring to the Admiralty contract for the supply of 75,000 marine boots, the uppers of the sealed patterns of the boots submitted by the Admiralty were made of foreign-manufactured leather; if so, whether he will state if, seeing that the boot-making contractors will adhere to the same style and finish of the sealed patterns submitted, the submittal of such patterns is prejudicial to the interests of British manufacturers of leather; and whether he will undertake that all future patterns submitted by the Admiralty shall be made wholly of British-manufactured leather?

As fully explained in my replies to previous questions, English leather of equal substance and quality to the Admiralty pattern is already admissible under the specification, and the pattern boot is designed to indicate as closely as possible the quality necessary to satisfy the specification.

asked if the right hon. Gentleman will say what would be the additional cost, if any, of supplying boots and shoes of all-English manufacture to the Navy?

asked whether the right hon. Gentleman will state what is the amount expected to be saved this year by using foreign leather in the uppers of the boots and shoes for the Navy?

The information sought has already been furnished in my reply of Monday to the hon. Member for Portsmouth. We expect to use 100,000 pairs of boots a year. The estimate of the extra cost of English leather for uppers is, roughly, £1,500 per annum, of which about £500 would fall upon public funds, and £1,000 would be paid by the seamen themselves.

Will my hon. Friend see that nothing is done by the Admiralty which will compel British seamen to pay more for their boots?

If we ever desired to do that, which we do not, we should fail because the sailor would not pay it.

asked whether, in view of the hardship caused to manufacturers of English vegetable-tanned leather by the substitution of foreign chrometanned leather for the uppers of seamen's boots, he will arrange for a proportion of the boots to be still manufactured from vegetable-tanned leather?

As I have already indicated in previous replies, the present specification has been made more favourable to the English vegetable-tanned leather by requiring the outer soles, on grounds of quality, to be wholly of English leather instead of admitting foreign as an alternative, as we did for many years. In regard to the uppers, English leather is admissible, as I have already stated. The reason for the change to box-calf for uppers has also been explained, namely, on the grounds of greater flexibility and comfort for the seaman. I cannot restrict the specification to English leather for the uppers unless I am convinced that we can secure sufficient leather to our standard of flexibility and durability at a price not higher than that ruling under open competition.

asked whether there is any English leather contained in the boots supplied to the German Navy?

I have no information on this subject.

asked whether there is a sufficient supply of Englishtanned box-calf leather to make the uppers of all boots for the Navy from English leather only?

As I stated yesterday, there is some doubt whether a sufficient quantity of home-dressed skins of the desired substance and quality is at present available for the number of boots expected to be required annually.

May I ask why it is that British leather is dearer than foreign?

I cannot answer that question.

Is it owing to the conditions of trade?

asked whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware that, in asking for the tender of 75,000 marine boots for the use of the Admiralty, no stipulation was made by the Lords Commissioners, though previously this had been the case, that the uppers of such boots should be made of British-manufactured leather; whether, seeing that such stipulations are made in the case of soles of the marine boots and also for the supply of the accoutrements for the use of the War Office, he will state why an exception was made in the case of the leather of the uppers of these marine boots; and whether he will undertake that in future, seeing that very large quantities of box-calf are manufactured in Great Britain, the Admiralty contracts should stipulate that the whole of the boot should be made of British-manufactured leather?

The reply to the first part of the question is in the affirmative, as already explained in replies to other questions. In reply to the second part of the question, the circumstances are different—the stipulations there referred to are on grounds of quality. In reply to the third part of the question, as I have just stated in reply to the hon. Member for Worcester, I cannot restrict the specification to English leather for the uppers unless I am convinced that we can secure sufficient leather to our standard of flexibility and durability at a price not higher than now ruling under open competition.

What proof has the hon. Gentleman as to the quality of foreign leather, seeing that the Navy has never had it in their boots before?

The sole of the Navy boot is British.

But I am talking about the uppers.

The new boot which has this chrome-tanned leather upper is more flexible and comfortable. If the hon. Member will come down to my room I will let him see a pair of these boots and he can try them on, and I am sure, like myself, he will be quite envious of them.

What proof has the Admiralty of the extra durability of this foreign prepared calf for the uppers, and if it has never been used in the Navy before, I want to know what evidence the right hon. Gentleman has that it is better than the English made leather.

We have had samples and our trade experts have advised us. It is more comfortable.

Is the Tariff Reform League now on its uppers? [An HON. MEMBER: "Stick up for the foreigner."]

You stick to the blacklegs.

asked whether the right hon. Gentleman will consider the advisability of the Admiralty relying for the supply of equipment on British manufactured leather rather than on the supplies of countries with which there is the slightest possibility of Great Britain ever being at war; and whether he will consider the advisability of the Admiralty, in common with all Government offices, endeavouring to foster British industry in every way?

In reply to the first part of the question, the Admiralty is fully alive to the necessity of specifying British materials wherever this is essential to obtain a particular quality, or for the application of special tests, or for the avoidance of risk of failure of supplies, particularly in time of war. These considerations do not arise in the present instance, as no difficulty is anticipated in supplying suitable boots for seamen either in peace or war. In reply to the latter part of the question, the general policy of the Admiralty in its specifications, based as it is on purely naval grounds, does incidentally give great encouragement to British industry; but in the taxpayers' interest, and in the present case, as I have already shown in the interest also of the individual sailors, it is not here desirable to exclude competition from other sources. I may add that in Admiralty contracts running to many millions of pounds annually, the amount of purchases of fully manufactured articles from abroad is comparatively very small.

Are we to understand then that in a contract which extends over twelve months, or even longer, it is the wisdom of the Admiralty to order goods which are absolutely necessary for the equipment of our sailors from a nation with which we may be at war?

We do not order boots from any other nation. They are ordered from our own British contractor, but in the matter of the uppers, as I have already explained, they can get them from any source. This is not a vital war supply. We could get boots in this country at any time, but we should probably have to pay more for them if we restricted them to British leather.

Is it not a fact that the sailors have to pay for this equipment?

The sailors have supplied to them their first kit free, and they have to replace the kit after that out of their own pockets. That is why the supply of uppers should be from any source. I object to the sailor paying more for his boots than necessary.

Would the right hon. Gentleman say whether he has consulted the sailors and ascertained their opinion in this matter?

I will say this: the new pattern boot—I will show the hon. Member a pair if he likes to see them—is going like hot cakes with the sailors.

It is Hobson's choice.

Would the right hon. Gentleman say how, if he discourages the home manufacturer in times of peace, he expects to get the right sort of boot from him in time of war?

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty, referring to the Admiralty contracts for the supply of marine boots, whether, it having been demonstrated that in the case of the soles of the boots British-manufactured leather is superior to foreign-manufactured leather, he is aware that the boot-making contractors are prepared similarly to demonstrate that in the case of the uppers of the boots British-manufactured leather is superior in wearing qualities to that manufactured abroad; and, if so, what action he proposes to take?

The answer to the first part of the question is that superiority of quality has been demonstrated in the case of the sole leather, but not in the case of the box-calf uppers. The information at present received from Admiralty boot-making contractors is distinctly to the effect that the English box-calf of the desired substance and quality is dearer and that the supply is insufficient. I have already intimated that the Admiralty has invited a practical and detailed demonstration from the Light Leather Trades' Federation on this point by means of samples and prices, but, so far, has not received it.

Arising out of that answer, is it not a fact that if the Admiralty were to raise the pay of the seamen they would be able to pay for British goods?

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it is in the interests of the country that a shilling or so should be saved in the price of goods or whether £1 or 30s. should be kept for the manufacture of boots in this country?

That is a matter for argument.

asked whether, in the event of tenders for the supply of marine boots of wholly British-manufactured leather being slightly more in cost, the Lords Commissioners would in that case give out contracts for the supply of boots of partially British-manufactured leather, the qualities being equal; and whether any such slight saving in cost would not be prejudicial to the British industry, and would not result in a consequent unemployment of British labour?

I have already explained the reasons why it has not been deemed advisable to restrict the Admiralty specification for uppers of Navy boots to box-calf leather of British manufacture only, and that, having regard both to the extra cost to the taxpayer and to the seamen, I cannot undertake to give the preference to the possibly higher tenders presupposed in the question. Neither do I think that in securing the quality of leather desired at the lower prices possible to us by open competition I am necessarily prejudicing British industry or increasing unemployment.