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Written Answers

Volume 95: debated on Monday 25 June 1917

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Written Answers

War

National Expendituee

Comparative Statement

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will circulate a statement comparing the present rate of national expenditure with the rate in or about, say, December last and explaining, so far as possible, the items which make up the current expenditure and the basis on which the figures are compiled?

Two considerations have to be borne in mind in comparing the rates of national expenditure during isolated periods of any one year or of different years.Firstly, the national expenditure is not incurred at a uniform rate throughout the year, but fluctuates very considerably owing to a variety of causes. Such comparisons must therefore be misleading unless all the circumstances governing the rate of expenditure during a given period are taken into account.Secondly, it is impossible for the Treasury to give final figures of total current expenditure until a considerable time after it has been incurred. So far as Consolidated Fund Services (

e.g., debt charges) are concerned, the figures of Exchequer Issues published weekly represent final charges. These charges are, however, not incurred evenly throughout the year, but fall chiefly in June and December when the principal dividends are payable, and adjustments must be made on this account in considering averages for short periods. The Exchequer issues also reflect a close approximation to facts in the case of Supply services other than Votes of Credit. But this does not apply to expenditure on Vote of Credit services, the principal cause being that as much of it takes place outside of the United Kingdom it is impossible to pass the entries relating to these transactions through the Exchequer Account until a considerable period after the event. In fact, the estimates of expenditure out of the Vote of Credit are reached by adding to the amount of cash which has been drawn from the Paymaster-General in London for Vote of Credit services, the amount of expenditure for Vote of Credit services which has been incurred abroad, based on telegraphic advice. The figures which have been given in the various statements made in the House of Commons as the expenditure out of the Vote of Credit have all been prepared upon this principle, as have the figures given below.

In my last statement on the Vote of Credit I dealt with the first five weeks of the current financial year, namely, the period 1st April to 5th May inclusive. The following table compares the expenditure in these five weeks with the five succeeding weeks, namely, the period 6th May to 9th June, and with the period of nine weeks from 8th October to 9th December, 1916, with which I dealt in the first Vote of Credit statement which I made in the House. In each case the figures relating to Consolidated Fund services and to Supply services other than Vote of Credit, represent the Exchequer issues. The figures relating to the Vote of Credit have been prepared on the basis explained above.

TABLE A.
Nine weeks— 8th Oct. to 9th Dec., l916.Five weeks— 1st April to 5th May, 1917.Five weeks— 6th May to 9th June, 1917.Ten weeks— 1st April to 9th June, 1917.
Consolidated Fund Services (Exchequer Issues)—££££
Total38,669,0009,715,00045,689,00055,404,000
Daily average614,000278,0001,305,000792,000
Supply Services other than Votes of Credit (Exchequer Issues)—
Total18,057,0008,266,0008,346,00016,612,000
Daily average287,000236,000288,000237,000
Votes of Credit (Figures prepared on special basis explained above)—
Total360,000,000261,000,000209,600,000470,600,000
Daily average5,714,0007,457,0005,989,0006,723,000
Total416,726,000278,981,000263,635,000542,616,000
Daily average6,615,0007,971,0007,532,0007,752,000

But the comparison suggested by the table is vitiated by several circumstances. In the nine weeks ending 9th December, 1916, the issues for the Consolidated Fund services included a whole half-year's dividend upon 4½ per cent. War Loan and 5 per cent. Exchequer Bonds, 1920. The issues in the ten weeks ending 9th June, 1917, included the April dividends on Consols, etc., on unconverted 5 per cent. Exchequer Bonds. 1919, and 1921, and on the 4 per cent. War Loan, as well as the June dividend on the unconverted 4£ per cent. War Loan, 5 per cent. Exchequer Bonds, 1920, and the 5 per cent. War Loan. In the period ending 9th December, 1916, the issues for Supply services other than Vote of Credit were decidedly above the

TABLE B.
Actual, 1916–17.Estimated, 1917–18.Increase per day.
£££
Consolidated Fund. Services—
Total139,120,000222,895,000
Daily average381,000611,000230,000
Supply Services other than Votes of Credit—
Total85,328,00092,486,000
Daily average234,000253,00019,000
Total224,448,000315,381,000
Daily average615,000864,000249,000

The increase of £230,000 per day under Consolidated Fund services is entirely due to the increase, in the debt charge.

normal for the year, while, during the first ten weeks of the current financial year the issues for Supply services other than Vote of Credit have been below the anticipated average. So far as present indications go there appears to be no reason for revising the Budget Estimate for the year 1917–18 in respect of Consolidated Fund services or Supply services, excluding Vote of Credit, and the growth of expenditure under these heads may fairly be illustrated by comparing the actual issues in 1916–17 reduced to a uniform daily average with the daily average on the estimated issues for the year 1917–18.

On this basis the comparison as regards the two classes of services in question becomes as follows: —

The following table relating to expenditure on Vote of Credit services analyses in detail the totals already given. The figures represent the total cash placed by the Treasury at the disposal of spending officers and past experience suggests that they are in excess of the real expendiure. They include all outgoings in respect of advances which may be recoverable, either in the same year or in a subsequent year, or in respect of the purchase of commodities which are resold.

TABLE C—VOTE OF CREDIT
Period 8th Oct. to 9th Dec, 1916–63 days.Period 1st April to 5th May, 1917–35 days.Period 6th May to 9th June, 1917–35 days.Period 1st April to 9th June. 1917–70 days
Army, Navy and Munitions—££££
Total249,500,000173,000,000147,300,000320,300,000
Daily average3,960,0004,943,0004,209,0004,576,000
Loans to Dominions and Allies—
Total104,000,00068,000,00046,300,000114,300,000
Daily average 1,651,0001,943,0001,323,0001,633.000
Miscellaneous—
Total6,500,00020,000,00016,000,00036,000,000
Daily average103,000571,000457,000514,000
Total360,000,000261,000,000209,600,000470,600,000
Daily average5,714,0007,457,0005,989,0006,723,000

The increase of expenditure on Army services is in part attributable to payments or advances which will be ultimately recoverable. The expenditure on Munitions has also been affected by temporary causes, such as more rapid deliveries being made on account of the early termination of certain orders. But notwithstanding this I have reason to fear, as I have already stated, that there will be some excess under the heads of Army and Munitions upon the figures on which the Budget Estimates were based.

As regards Loans to the Allies, His Majesty's Government were still liable during the opening weeks of the current year to fulfil commitments which were undertaken before the entry of the United States into the War. The advantage of the entry of that country is now being felt.

Under the head of Miscellaneous there has been a substantial increase as compared with last year. It would not be in the public interest to set out in detail the items which account for it, but I may say generally that the growth of expenditure is due to charges for transport on land and sea, including purchases of ships, the purchase of food supplies, and to the charge for War pensions, which has now reached a figure of about £250,000 per week and will, of course, continue to expand.

Excess Profits Duty (Co-Operative Societies)

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, in the case of an industrial and co-operative society with 2,000 members who in 1914 made purchases to the amount of £40,000 and received a so-called dividend of 3s. in thepound, it is held, according to Rule 10, Fourth Schedule, Part I., of the Finance (No. 2) Act, 1915, to have realised £6,000 as profits for the pre-war trade year; whether, in the case of the same society in 1915, the members again receiving a dividend of 3s. in the pound and purchasing the same quantities of provisions, but, owing to the increased market values, at a cost of £60,000, it is held, according to the same rule, to have realised £9,000 as profits; whether, the surplus arising from transactions with members being similar in 1914 and 1915, the Excess Profits Duty of 60 per cent., subject to certain deductions, was levied upon £3,000, or the difference between the £6,000 pre-war and the £9,000 owing to the War; and whether, in view of the fact that there was no increase in the the so-called dividend and no addition to the quantities purchased, the Excess Profits Duty was levied, not upon profits, but upon the increased cost of food and other necessaries of life?

The hon. Member has not correctly reflected the operation of the Excess Profits Duty. The pre-war standard of profits is fixed by reference to the surplus of the two years selected by the society out of the three last pre-war years and the surplus in any year as computed for purposes of Excess Profits Duty may differ in most material particulars from the aggregate amount paid as dividends on purchases. As regards the last part of the question, I would refer him to the answers I have given to previous questions put by him.

Over-Brewing (Prosecutions)

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he can state the number of prosecutions which have been instituted by the Excise authorities in the United kingdom for over-brewing and over-distilling in contravention of the Orders restricting the output of beer and spirits, and the number of convictions obtained?

Legal proceedings have up to the present been instituted by the Board of Customs and Excise against four brewers for over-brewing, but the cases have not yet been heard in Court. The question of taking proceedings in respect of over-distilling rests with the Ministry of Munitions and not with the Board of Customs and Excise.

American Navy (Rum Rations)

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether any spirit or rum rations are issued on vessels belonging to the American Navy?

The only information the Admiralty has is that on 1st July, 1914, the following General Order was promulgated to the United States Navy:

"The use or introduction for drinking purposes of alcoholic liquors on board any Naval vessel, or within any Naval Yard or Station, is strictly prohibited, and Commanding Officers will be held directly responsible for the enforcement of this order."

Salonika Army

asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether he will consider the desirability of transferring to other fronts those officers and men of the Salonika force who have been in Macedonia for some considerable time and whose health has suffered from that climate, and of filling their places with officers and men who have not yet been in the country?

The relief of officers and men who have been subjected for long periods to exceptional strain in a theatre of war or have served in an unhealthy climate has always been a matter for careful consideration, and such action as is possible has been taken in this respect. The restricted amount of transport available necessitates the transfer of troops from one theatre of war to another being reduced to an absolute minimum, and it is impracticable to introduce any wholesale scheme of relief. I can assure my hon. and gallant Friend that all reasonable precautions are taken to ensure that no officer or man is unavoidably retained in Macedonia if his health will be permanently impaired thereby.

asked whether there is at present any prospect of a larger number of officers and men of the Salonika Army being allowed home on leave: and whether the rule that any officer or man of that force who has been to a hospital out of the country on account of wounds or sickness must count that as leave is to be continued?

The grant of leave of absence to officers and men of the force in Salonika rests in the discretion of the General Officer Commanding-in-Chief, who I am sure gives it the most sympathetic consideration possible subject to transport facilities and the exigencies of the military situation. Perhaps my hon. and gallant Friend will let me know what case he has in mind with regard to the last part of the question.

Military Service

Conditional Exemption

asked the Under-Secretary of State for War if a man previously exempted from military service by a local tribunal on condition that he joined the Volunteer Training Corps, and who is now in possession of a scheduled occupation certificate, must continue his drills with the said Volunteer Training Corps although he is in possession of a scheduled occupation certificate?

Yes, Sir. If the man desires to retain the protection of his tribunal exemption, he must fulfil any conditions upon which his certificate was granted.

Royal Flying Corps (Transfers)

asked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether Class A men who joined the Royal Flying Corps twelve and eighteen months ago with the understanding that they would be retained in that branch of the Service are now being transferred without their consent to infantry regiments?

A considerable number of Class A men, whose trade skill was not such as to make them indispensable, have been transferred to other arms.

Royal Munstbr Fusiliees (Robert Call)

asked the Under Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that Robert Call, No. 2,372, 8th Royal Munster Fusiliers, was promoted to lance-sergeant at Blackdown in November, 1915 and embarked for France on 17th December, 1915, on which date his rank should be confirmed and made permanent by the paymaster, Cork, and that he was promoted full sergeant in the field in France, 15th April, 1916, for gallantry, and was further wounded at Loos on 29th June, 1916, and evacuated to England on 16th July, 1916, when he was immediately reduced to the rank of private by the paymaster, Cork; and on what grounds his rank was taken from him?

I have called for a report on this case and will inform my hon. Friend as soon as I am in a position to do so.

War Department Employes (Dublin)

asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office when the Government war bonus will be paid to civilian clerks on military work in the main supply depot, Kingsbridge, Dublin?

Inquiry is being made, and I will communicate the result to the hon. Member in due course.

Naval And Military Pensions And Grants

asked the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether it is proposed to make changes of policy in regard to the payment of soldiers employed on sedentary work and who live at their own homes; if, under the proposed change, the standard billeting allowance will be abolished and merged into a family allowance, with the effect that a married man with one child whose wife is now receiving 19s. 6d. per week separation allowance plus 19s. 3d. billeting money will in future only receive 23s. per week altogether; and whether, if this would be the effect of the proposed change, he will reconsider the matter before he makes such a reduction in the family income in these cases, especially in view of the recent increase in the cost of living?

No, Sir; no change is proposed. A married man with one child living in his own house is only entitled to a family allowance of 23s. a week in addition to his pay. He is not now, nor has he ever been, entitled to separation allowance and billeting money.

Munitions

Pyrites

asked the Minister of Munitions whether the prewar prices at which the Explosives Department made purchases of pyrites on the recommendations of the Pyrites Sub-Committee were actual or estimated f.o.b. prices which were obtained before the War; and if such purchases were made in open competition with all British producers?

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to his oral question (No. 17) of to-day's date. In some oases the prices were actual f.o.b. prices; in others they were estimated f.o.b. prices, arrived at by taking the actual c.i.f. prices and deducting average pre-war freight insurance.

asked the Minister of Munitions whether the Pyrites Sub-Committee ever meet or confer as to the decisions which are communicated to him and upon which he acts; and, if so, whether minutes of such meetings or conferences of the members of the Pyrites Sub-Committee are recorded and would be available if required by the House?

The Pyrites Sub-Committee confer whenever there is any question to be discussed and the advice of the Committee is formally communicated to the Department by means of letters, which then become part of the departmental records of the Ministry.

Priority Certificate (Messrs, Dobell And Company)

asked the Minister of Munitions whether he is aware that application was made as far back as 23rd April, 1917, by Messrs. Dobell and Company, Limited, millers, of Uxbridge, for a priority certificate for the delivery of a new maize disintegrator machine; whether he is aware that, in reply on 27th April, Mr. A. E. W. Hazel, signing as deputy controller of the Priority Department, required further proof of urgency, the value of the machine and materials contained in it, and that on 28th April last Messrs. Dobell informed the Department that it was necessary to instal the machine so as to get a larger capacity of output to supply an increasing demand for dilution of maize flour to save the wheat, gave particulars of cost and that it contained 5 per cent, steel, and that the machine was actually waiting delivery; that subsequently the Ministry of Food were informed that the mills were at a standstill and with increasing and pressing orders for maize flour for human consumption, and that the machine was ready for delivery and only awaited departmental permission; whether he is aware that, in spite of frequent applications to both Departments and the knowledge of the use for such flour, it was not until the 14th May certified by the Food Controller that the supply of the machine was considered by him to be of urgent national importance; that notwithstanding that Messrs. Dobell and Company answered promptly all questions put to them and proved that they sold flour maize to other millers, and also themselves mixed it with wheat flour, and that the need of the disintegrator was urgent, the Priority Department of the Ministry of Munitions on 2nd June refused to permit delivery though the machine was there and for some time had been lying at the Uxbridge railway station; whether he will say why in the face of the Food Controller's certificate that the matter was one of urgent national importance delivery of the machine has been refused; and whether he will institute an inquiry into the whole of the circumstances to prevent a repetition of such departmental delays?

Messrs. Dobell and Company applied on the 23rd April for a permit for a new machine, and also for a permit for repairs to the old machine that had broken down. A permit for the repairs to the old machine on a war work basis was dispatched on the 27th April. The matter was then referred to the Department of the Food Controller. That Department made detailed inquiries as to the capacity of the mill and other considerations, and on the 30th May informed the Priority Department that the new machine could not be recommended as essential to the needs of Messrs. Dobell and Company. On the 2nd June the Priority Department accordingly finally refused the application for the permit. The demands for plant and machinery for the increase of food production all over the country are very considerable, and place a serious drain upon the available" labour and material that are urgently needed for war work. It is not possible to spare the materials and labour for new plant or machinery, or even for extensive repairs, unless they have been selected as urgent and essential to meet the plans of the Food Controller. Where it is obvious, as in the case of the repair of the broken-down machine, that a permit should be granted, no delays occur. Where on the face of an application there is an element of doubt, care is taken to make minute inquiries, and to consult any Departments interested before; the application is definitely refused. It is the case that this machine had been manufactured under an arrangement which has been made for the purpose of avoiding delay. Under that arrangement firms are permitted to manufacture a certain number of machines for stock without a permit, on the condition that the machines will not be released until the permit has been received. In this case, the manufacturer was given to understand that a permit would be forthcoming, and dispatched the machine without the requisite authority. This machine is more urgently required elsewhere by a firm that is waiting for it and already has a permit. After considering the advice of the Department interested, and having regard to the strict economy that must be exercised in labour and materials, if the needs of the various Departments are to be met, I have formed the decision that a permit cannot be granted for this machine for Messrs. Dobell and Company.

Redistribution

asked the Home Secretary what are the boroughs in Great Britain outside the county of London which would be entitled, on the basis of redistribution adopted for the purposes of the Representation of the People Bill, to three or more members; and what is the number of members to which each is entitled?

I do not think I can possibly make a statement in the form suggested in anticipation of the recommendations of the Boundary Commissioners.

Proportional Representation (Draft Regulations)

asked the Home Secretary when it is proposed to circulate the draft Regulations as regards the method of voting and transferring and counting votes in the event of the principle of proportional representation being adopted?

In view of the direction given by the House to the Boundary Commissioners on the subject of proportional representation, the preparation of draft Regulations has been postponed, but I would refer the hon. Member to the Municipal Representation Bill, 1914, as containing a form of rules for the purpose.

Food Supplies

Cheese

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether there is a large quantity of Colonial cheese in the warehouses of this country; and, if so, why is it being held up, seeing that a month ago it was announced that this cheese would be on the market?

My hon. Friend has asked me to reply to this question. The cheese in question is the surplus quantity left after meeting the needs of the Army, and has only now become available for civilian consumption. It is in process of being distributed to retailers so far as the quantity admits, and will be on sale in the course of a few days.

Irish Creameries (Government Contracts)

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether Irish creameries have been given an opportunity of tendering for Government contracts for butter; with what firms in Ireland have the Government contracts for the supply of butter at present; what is the description of butter which they supply; and on what terms?

As far as the War Office is concerned, Irish firms are invited to tender for supplies of butter required for hospitals both at home and in France, and they hold several local contracts in Ireland, but none at present for France. The specification provides for supply of thoroughly good, wholesome, unadulterated and sound butter, the genuine product of cows' milk. Local contract prices, including delivery, range from 1s. 6½d. to 2s. per pound.

Coal Distribution

asked the Secretary to the Board of Trade, as representing the Coal Controller, what arrangements will be made for the supply of coal next winter to small societies and clubs in connection with churches, chapels, and other institutions who are now collecting weekly contributions from their members, having regard to the fact that their members have little storage accommodation and can usually only take in a few bags at a time?

The Controller of Coal Mines is considering a general scheme for securing a proper distribution of house coal in London and elsewhere during the coming winter. The importance of coal clubs and co-operative societies who can take a supply of coal in bulk and undertake the redistribution to their members is fully realised, and nothing will be done which will discourage their activities.

Steamship "Kangola"

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether his attention has been called to the overcrowding of the steamship "Kangola," which left Malta for Bombay with 125 natives on board, in addition to the ship's normal native crew; and whether he will take steps to prevent the occurrence of further overerowding?

The attention of the Board of Trade has not been drawn to the case referred to in the question, but inquiries are being made, and I will inform the Noble Lord of the result.

Prisoners Of War

asked the hon. Member for Sheffield (Central Division) whether he can make any statemeit as to the treatment of the British troops now in Turkish hands as a result of the surrender of Kut; and whether the attention of the Government has been called to the recent reports on the subject?

I am afraid that there is no doubt that while the British officers are on the whole well treated, the conditions of the other ranks is very far from satisfactory. The United States Embassy and Consulates in Turkey were able before the rupture of relations between the United States of America and that country to send considerable quantities of clothing and comforts to Our prisoners. The Netherlands Minister, who is now in charge of our interests, fully realises the importance which we attach to all possible steps being taken to improve the lot of our prisoners of war in Turkey.

Blind (Committee's Report)

asked the Home Secretary whether the Committee appointed in 1914 to inquire into the condition of the blind have issued a Report; if so, whether he will lay the same upon the Table of the House; and whether any legislation on the subject is contemplated by His Majesty's Government?

My right hon. Friend has asked me to answer this question. The Departmental Committee on the Blind have not yet presented their Report. The second and third parts of the question do not, therefore, at present arise.