On a point of Order, Mr. Speaker. May I ask whether you have considered the provisions of this Bill, of which the chief is that the London assets of a Russian bank should be appropriated for the benefit of creditors through the London branch, to the detriment of British and Russian creditors through the Russian headquarters and branches, and whether, in view of the fact that it raises issues of the gravest nature with regard to international relations, and sets a precedent for foreign retaliation which would inflict serious injury on other British subjects, you consider that this. is a proper subject to be dealt with in a private Bill?

I have read the Bill, and also consulted the Speaker's Counsel and the Chairman of Ways and Means, and I am of opinion that this Bill is properly introduced as a private Bill. It could not be introduced as a public Bill. It deals with a certain number of private interests, but not public interests. It may be a very proper thing to discuss the Bill from a public point of view; of that I say nothing. All I say is that it is properly introduced as a private Bill.

May I ask whether, if the Bill is correctly described here, having regard to its effect on international relations and to the fact that the whole balance of credit as between private creditors in this country and in Russia is involved, these are subjects which ought to be taken into consideration by the Government before they allow the Bill to proceed?

it is a matter which can be discussed in the public interest and in its bearings on public interests generally. I quite agree that that would be a perfectly relevant topic to discuss.

Is it the intention of the Government to give facilities for getting this Bill through?

I have no intention of giving this Bill facilities at this period of the Session. The question of public policy raised is not a matter for me, but for the Government Departments. My duty is confined to seeing that a Bill which, it is represented, has these points, does not slip through. Hon. Members may be assured that I shall take care that it does not, without adequate examination.

Second Reading deferred till Wednesday next.

asked the Minister of Labour in what position are the persons injured in the Levant Mine accident and the widows and dependants of those unfortunately killed with respect to insurance and compensation; will he indicate what steps are being taken to deal with this aspect of the matter; with what insurance company were the Levant Mine Company insured for purposes of workmen's compensation; and can he supply any details with respect to settlements?

My right hon. Friend has asked me to reply to this question. The injured workmen and the dependants of those killed are entitled to receive compensation under the Workmen's Compensation Act from their employers, who, I am informed, are insured so far as the fatal cases are concerned with the Excess Insurance Company. I understand that the employers are paying compensation to the injured and that steps are being taken to settle the amount of the compensation in the fatal cases, the dependants meanwhile receiving weekly payments from a local fund.

asked the Minister of Labour how many persons are thrown out of work in consequence of the Levant Mine disaster, Cornwall; what was the total number in receipt of unemployment benefit for the last known week in the town of St. Just, Cornwall; whether be can state what were the average wages, approximately, of the tin miners employed in this mine for the four weeks preceding the accident; what steps have been taken to provide relief work for those thrown out of employment; and whether any date can be given at which work will be resumed in the mine?

I understand that 280 men out of a total of about 350 were thrown out of work at this mine, and that eighty-nine ex-members of His Majesty's forces and 115 civilians claimed out-of-work donation. The civilians ceased to draw donation when the scheme for civilian donation terminated on 24th November. The ex-members of His Majesty's forces are still on donation. I am informed that the approximate average wage of the tin miners employed in the Levant Mine, for the four weeks preceding the accident, was from 10s. to 11s. per day per man. No relief work has been commenced for those thrown out of employment, but everything possible is being done through the local Employment Exchange to find employment for those who are willing to accept work temporarily in other districts. The management are, I understand, reinstating men as work can be found for them, but they are unable to state at present when a general resumption of work will be made.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is now in a position to state when the trade board for the mineral water and bottling industry will be established?

The first meeting of the Board for England and Wales has been provisionally arranged for the 7th January, 1920. It is hoped that the Board for Scotland will meet in the following week, and that the first meeting of the Irish Board will be held soon afterwards.

asked the Minister of Labour if he can name an approximate date upon which he anticipates that the 20,000 ex-Service men officially recognised as awaiting training will have been afforded the promised and necessary facilities?

The speed with which the necessary training facilities can be provided depends entirely upon the progress of the negotiations for the acquisition of further instructional factories. I may add, however, that many new factories are at present in process of being equipped, and it is hoped that the number of men in training will show a marked increase in the New Year.

May I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman has now any difficulty from the A. S. E. in regard to these men being trained, or working with these men?

I do not think that question entirely arises out of the question which I have just answered. As matters stand at present, as he will remember, the A. S. E. by ballot refused to help in the matter of taking in discharged men—[HON. MEMBERS: "Shame!"]—but they have been helping us in connection with the training schemes.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the possibility, in cases where men have been approved for training by local committees and have to wait for a long period before a vacancy occurs, of the granting to such men of a training allowance pending the vacancy?

There may be cases of hardship arising, but in most of the cases which came before me the men have been receiving either out-of-work donation or a training allowance under a system of general education.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will inform the House to what extent he is dependent upon the Office of Works in the matter of accelerating the completion of institutions suitable for the reception of the thousands of ex-soldiers promised and awaiting training?

The Ministry of Labour is dependent on the Office of Works to the extent that the latter is responsible for estimating and reporting on the reasonableness of the cost of premises and equipment for training institutions which are to be borne on the Ministry of Labour Building Vote: for the actual hiring or purchase of such premises, and, when requested, for finding suitable premises and providing the necessary equipment.

Is it the fact that the delay in equipping these institutions, which we hear is holding up some thousands of men, is largely owing to the fact of delay on the part of the Office of Works in doing the work?

I should not like to say it is due to delay on the part of any other Government Department. It arises out of difficulties which are inherent to the management of such things where various Departments are involved, and, necessarily, we must proceed through the recognised Government Departments in dealing with these matters.

Would it not be possible to put it up by private contract?

Obviously, where you are giving a grant of money for the purpose of instituting training, you must have a Government check, and you could not possibly put it into the hands of private contractors.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that there is general dissatisfaction with the manner in which the training of ex-soldiers is being administered by the Appointments Department of the Ministry of Labour; and if he will consider the advisability of instituting a special inquiry with a view to a reorganisation?

I am aware that the Appointments Department has been subjected to a good deal of criticism for its administration of the Training Grants scheme; but I believe this criticism is in the main the result of a generalisation from a comparatively small number of individual cases. The working of the Department is closely watched, and improvements are constantly being made in the light of the experience gained. I do not consider that a special inquiry would have any advantageous results.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this dissatisfaction is by no means as widespread as indicated in the question?

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his Department is advertising special technical training in certain subjects, and on receiving applications has, in many cases, not given a reply to the applicants?

I should regret very much if there were cases in which no reply was given to these men, and I should like to look into it if the hon. and gallant Member would give me any certificates. There would be no excuse for that, but I hope the House will realise that the Department is working under very considerable difficulties in regard to finding opportunities of employment. We do have, as the hon. and gallant Member (Colonel Ashley) has just pointed out, not only criticism, but from time to time a considerable amount of praise.

asked the Minister of Labour whether his attention has been called to a letter written to him on 10th November with regard to the case of ex-Sergeant George F. Hall by the hon. Member for Consett; whether a reminder from the hon. Member, dated the 1st December, reached his office; and whether any grant will be given to Mr. Hall to help him to qualify himself as a journalist, or a grant to compensate him for his expenses during the six weeks of training which was rendered of no avail because of the mistaken information given to him by the Appointments Department, Ministry of Labour, Newcastle-on-Tyne?

I duly received my, hon. Friend's letters on behalf of ex-Sergeant Hall, and I am writing to him about the case.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that many ex- officers who, in reliance upon advice given from his Department of adequate monetary assistance have undertaken university and other similar courses, have, after undertaking grave responsibilities, been notified of monetary awards which are quite insufficient for the purpose for which they are nominally awarded; and if he will take steps to ensure that candidates promised assistance are at the same time informed of the full extent of that assistance?

Grants in respect of university courses are made by the Board of Education and the corresponding Departments in Scotland and Ireland. In the case of grants for training in offices and works, which are administered by the Appointments Department, an applicant who is awarded a grant which he considers insufficient for reasonable maintenance has the right of appeal. I am not sure that I understand the last part of the question, but I may say that no member of the interviewing boards or of the Appointments Department has authority to make any promise in advance of final sanction, when full particulars of the grant awarded are, as a matter of course, notified to the applicant.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that many ex-officers throughout the country who, in reliance upon promises from his Department of monetary assistance, commenced technical training in September and October have not yet received payments promised and are considerably embarrased thereby; and if he will take steps to ensure that this unnecessary hardship is removed?

I must refer the hon. and gallant Member to my reply of the 3rd December, in which I stated that, although such grants are not normally paid in advance, half the first month's grant may be so paid in necessitous cases. In the normal case of men awarded grants by the Appointments Department, and commencing training in September and October, payments would be made in October and November respectively. I shall be pleased to make inquiry in any such cases where payments were not punctually made. Meanwhile, I can assure the hon. Member that every effort is being made to ensure that the men concerned are spared unnecessary embarrassment owing to delay in making payments.

asked the Prime Minister the number of Departments of State that are concerned, directly or indirectly, with the matter of providing the promised training facilities to ex-soldiers?

As the answer is long, I will, with the hon. and gallant Member's permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

The following is the Answer promised:

The Ministry of Labour alone is directly concerned with the provision of industrial training facilities for ex-soldiers, except in agriculture, for which the Board of Agriculture is responsible. The Board of Education and the Interim Forest Authority are also concerned in so far as use may be made of schools and institutions which fall under these authorities. Other Departments indirectly concerned in matters of finance, equipment, and the acquisition of premises are the Treasury, the Ministry of Munitions and the Office of Works.

The Minister of Labour has also a general responsibility for the Grants scheme for higher educational, professional, and business training. The immediate responsibilities lie with the Education Departments in respect of training given in universities and other educational institutions approved by them, with the Agricultural Departments in respect of agricultural training, and with the Appointments Department in respect of office and works training.

In the case of men undergoing treatment who are not certified as fit for industrial training, the Ministry of Pensions provide such training as is suitable, except in tuberculous cases, which are dealt with by the Ministry of Health.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that in the borough of Gateshead there are now 1,550 ex-Service men and 750 civilian men and women unable to obtain work locally; and whether any temporary measure can be taken to alleviate the situation?

The figures given by the hon. and gallant Member are approximately accurate. A large part of the unemployment referred to is due to the moulders' dispute, and will cease when that is settled.

asked the Minister of Labour whether any decision has been arrived at to give foremen and the supervisory grades generally the benefit of the proposed eight hours day under the Hours of Employment Bill?

Clause 8 (1) of the Bill deals with the position of foremen and persons holding positions of supervision and management. The principle of this Clause was agreed upon by the Joint Sub-Committee of Employers and Trade Union representatives who assisted the Government in preparing the Bill; but the precise terminology of the Clause is under reconsideration.

May I ask whether the foremen and supervisory grades were represented on that Joint Committee that agreed to the terms?

There were representatives who covered all the trade union movement, but there was no special representation of foremen and supervisory grades.

Is it not a fact that there was no representation at all of foremen and supervisory grades?

My hon. Friend is probably very well aware that in many trade unions foremen are covered, and we took the representatives who were the most prominent leaders in connection with these matters, and who were elected by the Joint Industrial Conference for this purpose.

Will he not consult these foremen and supervising grades in their own interests and in the interests of the country?

I really do not see by what means one could consult them, or whom one could select for the purpose of consultation. There are not many foremen's associations of the kind who could give us the necessary advice, and accordingly we took the best advice we could, but I hope my hon. Friend is satisfied with the fact that their case is being at present reconsidered.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will state the primary factor that determines the retention or closure of a labour exchange; whether it is the number of the population, the particular characteristic, industrial, or commercial, or any other special circumstance of the area in which it is situated; whether he is aware that the number of workpeople and industrial concerns served by the present temporary labour exchange at Brierley Hill, Stafford, is greater than the number of workpeople and business undertakings at Stourbridge, to which it is apparently contemplated all exchange operations in that district shall be transferred; and whether he will take that fact into account when considering the application of the Brierley Hill Urban District Council for the temporary labour exchange in its area to be made a permanent centre for such affairs?

All the factors referred to by the hon. Member are taken into consideration in determining whether an exchange should be retained or closed. The office at Brierley Hill was one of a number opened for dealing with the pressure incidental to the payment of out-of-work donation; and in the ordinary course it would have been closed when the work was sufficiently reduced to permit of this being done. It has been decided to retain this office for a further period, and, in considering whether to retain it permanently, the factors referred to by the hon. Member, and the representations of the Urban District Council, will be fully borne in mind.

asked the Minister of Labour upon what source, or sources, his Department relies for information about the labour movement abroad; whether this information is available on the request of a trade union or other labour organisation in this country; and to what bodies or individuals in foreign countries information about the labour movement in this country is provided?

The answer to this question involves a very long and detailed reply, and I hope I may be allowed to circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

The following is the Answer referred to:

The principal sources upon which the Ministry of Labour relies for information about the labour movement abroad are (a) periodical and other publications issued by foreign and Colonial Departments of Labour Statistics, (b) statistical data furnished by such Departments, (c) Reports received through the Foreign Office from His Majesty's representatives abroad, and (d) statements and Reports published in the foreign Press.

The greater part of the information so obtained, in so far as it is of public interest, is summarised regularly in the "Labour Gazette," and any further similar information which is available in the Ministry, in so far as it is not of a confidential character, would be supplied upon request.

Information as to the labour movement in this country is also published regularly in the "Labour Gazette," which is circulated to the Labour and Statistical Departments of the principal foreign and Colonial Governments, to eminent economists and statisticians abroad, to a number of His Majesty's representatives in foreign countries, and to various public institutions abroad. Applications for information are also received from time to time from individuals in foreign countries. In such cases the required particulars are supplied, so far as they are not confidential; but no unpublished information of a confidential character is circulated either to foreign Governments or to individuals.

asked the Minister of Labour whether the unemployment donation is withdrawn from a demobilised soldier who apprentices himself to a firm to learn a trade, even though he receives no pay; and whether he will reconsider this Regulation with a view to encouraging discharged soldiers to become skilled workmen and to cease to be a charge on the State?

The payment of out-of-work donation to persons who are in employment, even though receiving no wages, would be open to grave objection; but ex-Service men undergoing apprenticeship or other forms of training are in general provided for under the allowances given by the training Department of the Ministry of Labour. I do not know of cases such as the hon. Member refers to, but if he has any specific instances in mind and will send me particulars I will be glad to make inquiries into them.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that workmen who are unemployed from engineering and other establishments in consequence of the ironfounders' dispute are entitled to receive unemployment benefit from the State and have their health insurance cards cleared, whereas workmen not in dispute who are stopped from working at an establishment where moulders are employed are not entitled to unemployment benefit and are getting into arrears with their health insurance; and if he will take action with a view to removing this inequality of treatment?

I have been asked to reply to this question. The rules in accordance with which claims to unemployment benefit are decided in cases of unemployment caused by a trade dispute were explained in reply to the question, put by the hon. Member on 27th October. They were drawn up after very careful consideration when the Statutes relating to unemployment insurance and health insurance was passed, and I cannot undertake to propose that they should be altered in this special case.

I do not think my right hon. Friend has answered the question. Is he aware that, in consequence of a large number of labourers being thrown out of employment through the moulders' strike, and not being in a position to receive any unemployment benefit, they are getting into arrears with their insurance cards, and will eventually be entirely out of benefit, and cannot he see his way clear to have their cards cleared, so as to keep them in benefit?

I think I did answer the question, but I will try to answer it further by having a consultation with the Minister of Health to see whether any way can be devised. It is obvious that the two Departments will require to work together for this purpose. At present we are acting according to the ordinary rules which were laid down some years ago.

asked the Minister of Health if his attention has been drawn to a recommendation carried by the Poplar Borough Council Works Committee on the 27th November to the effect that extra pay be allowed to hammermen who are members of a trade organisation or join within four weeks; and, if so, will he take steps to stop this form of coercion?

My attention has not otherwise been drawn to the recommendation re-felled to in my right hon. Friend's question, but in any case I have no jurisdiction in the matter.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether the auditors in his Department will sanction extra expenditure of this kind?

I am informed that in this particular matter we have no jurisdiction.

asked the Minister of Health if he will state the total annual revenue of the Welsh Health Insurance Commission for the years 1913 to 1918, respectively; the total annual cost of administration for each of those years, showing the amount of salary paid to each of the Commissioners and secretary, rent of offices and establishment expenses, together with the total of all other payments and disbursements; the total amount of benefits distributed, and the balance or surplus undistributed now in hand?

It has not been possible, in the very short time since the question first appeared on the Paper yesterday, to obtain from Wales the large number of detailed figures asked for by the hon. Member. I am having them collected and will send them to him.

asked the Minister of Health whether he will state what ratio the cost of administration bears to the revenue from health insurance in England, Scotland, and Wales, respectively, for each complete year the Act has been in operation?

The ratio of the total cost of administration (local and central) of national health insurance to the total revenue varies very slightly from year to year. The figure for England and Wales for the year 1918 was 11½ per cent., as will be seen from the reply given on 28th October to the hon. Member for Wood Green. I am having the separate figures for England and Wales, respectively, procured, and will send them to the hon. Member; he should address inquiry to the Secretary for Scotland as regards the analogous figure for Scotland.

asked the Minister of Health how many secretaries and assistant and under-secretaries are on the staff of the Ministry, and what is the total number of the permanent and temporary staff employed by the Ministry of Health?

There are at the Ministry of Health one Parliamentary Secretary and a first and a second secretary; there are eleven assistant secretaries. The number and grades of the other permanent posts and staff of the Ministry are shown in the Estimates laid before Parliament. The total number of persons at present employed in any capacity, including the temporary staff, is 5,411; this figure excludes the staff of the Welsh Board of Health, but includes the staff employed by the Ministry in the all parts of England.

asked the Prime Minister how many ships are at present employed in bringing grain from the southern ports of the United States, and the tonnage of those ships; and whether, in view of the much longer voyage to the above ports, and the adverse exchange depreciating the value of such exports on the outward voyage as it may be possible to sell to the States, it is advisable to employ these vessels in trading with the Black Sea ports, whose inhabitants and those of the hinterland urgently require British exports, and have a practically unlimited supply of grain to exchange therefor at a favourable, rate of exchange?

Before answering this question I would like to say to the House that M. Clemenceau is coming over to-morrow morning. He will be here for a few days only. It will be impossible for the Prime Minister, who must keep himself available for the discussions with M. Clemenceau, to be here to-morrow. If any hon. Member wishes questions answered by the Prime Minister, and will postpone them till Monday, the Prime Minister will come both on Monday and Thursday next week.

In reply to my hon. Friend, liners only have recently been employed in bringing grain to the United Kingdom from the Southern ports of the United States of America. The number so employed during November was twelve, and the quantity of grain and flour carried on Government account was approximately 30,000 tons. Efforts will be made to export grain from the Black Sea as soon as circumstances permit.

If in order, I would like to ask whether it would be possible for this House to receive M. Clemenceau in this Chamber.

indicated dissent.

asked the Prime Minister whether his attention has been drawn to the lack of the necessities of life in Vienna and other towns in Austria; whether he is also aware of the statements made by the British Food Minister that the stocks of frozen meat in this country are so great that the importation of Irish fat cattle has had to be prohibited; whether he is also aware that coal is being sent to Vienna from America at very considerable expense; while there are coal mines in Czecho-Slovakia within 100 miles of that city; whether His Majesty's Government are attempting in any way to remedy this state of affairs; and, if so, how?

Yes, Sir. I am fully aware of the seriousness of the situation to which the hon. and gallant Member calls attention. So far as I know, no coal is being sent to Vienna from America; but, in view of the situation, His Majesty's Government are using every means in their power to stimulate the delivery of coal from Czecho-Slovakia, to Austria.

May I ask whether the cessation of coal from America is due to the strike, and therefore temporary, but, if permanent, whether we are doing anything to send coal?

I do not think it would be possible for us to send coal. As I have said, we are doing everything in our power to get coal sent from the adjacent countries where it is, to some extent, available.

Is the Government still pressing the United States Government to extend credits to Central Europe in view of the shortage of food and coal?

The position is exactly the same as when I last answered a question on the subject. The Government fully realise, and have made plain to the Government of the United States, that without financial assistance from the United States it is impossible that adequate provision can be made.

asked the Prime Minister if His Majesty's Government is using and will use its good offices to expedite the repatriation of all German prisoners held by our Allies, both in view of the Peace terms and on the grounds of humanity?

His Majesty's Government have no doubt that all German prisoners will be immediately repatriated as soon as ratifications have been exchanged.

asked the Prime Minister whether the International Labour Conference at Washington has approved of a minimum working week of 60 hours for miners and certain railway workers in India; and, if so, what was the attitude of the representatives of the British Government on this question?

The Government have not yet received any information on the points raised by the hon. Member.

asked the Prime Minister whether the Allies are, under the terms of the Peace Treaty, making provision to ensure that the chief German works associated with the manufacture of war material are no longer devoting themselves to this object; whether he can state the present and contemplated employment of Krupps; and whether it will be permitted to carry on as hitherto its activities in stirring up world trouble to assist it in selling its wares?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative, and to the last part in the negative. His Majesty's Government have no precise information with regard to the second part of the question. Such information as is obtainable, however, indicates that the Krupp Works are undergoing conversion to the manufacture of commercial articles.

asked the Prime Minister if he will state the number of shop stewards who during the War received payment, directly or indirectly, from any Government Department other than the Ministry of Munitions, and the total amount of disbursement under this head; how many shop stewards are receiving such payment at the present time; and whether he will give an estimate of the expenditure contemplated during the present financial year upon this head?

As far as I am aware, the answer to the first two parts of the question is none. The last part does not, therefore, arise.

asked the Prime Minister if the Government proposes to carry out any of the recommendations of the Select Committee on Old Age Pensions before the end of this Session?

asked the Lord Privy Seal whether the Government has determined to introduce legislation to amend the scheme of old age pensions; whether this scheme will be on the lines recommended in the Majority Report recently submitted to the House; and, in view of the inadequacy of the present old age pension, will he introduce this legislation at as early a date as possible?

I can add nothing to what I said in reply to questions on this subject on Monday last.

Are we to understand that the Government do not propose to do anything this Session?

No; the answer I gave was that we hoped to be able to announce our proposals before the Recess.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether Talaat Pasha, ex-Vizier of Turkey, is now in Berlin on his way to Moscow to confer with Radek and Trotsky; what steps are being taken to secure the custody of Talaat's person, with a view to his trial for instigating and initiating the massacre of thousands of Armenians; and whether the German Government has been asked to surrender him to justice?

I shave no information as to the reported journey of Talaat Pasha. His disposal is a matter for agreement among the Allied and Associated Powers.

asked whether the case of Albania has yet come before the Peace Conference?

The future of Albania has been under the consideration of the representatives of France, Italy, Great Britain, and the United States at the Paris Conference. I can make no further statement at present.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he has received any intimation from the Governor of Malta as to the reception accorded by the inhabitants of Malta and Gozo to the proposed constitutional changes; and when he hopes to be able to announce in greater detail the particulars of the proposed changes and the amount of financial assistance?