asked the Secretary of State for India whether any charges on account of the occupation of Mesopotamia are debited to Indian revenue?

The answer is in the negative.

asked the Prime Minister whether the recently-published Anglo-French agreement for the division of the oil of Mesopotamia will be in any way affected when an Arab State is set up in that country in accordance with the declared policy of His Majesty's Government?

I cannot say.

Were the notables in Mesopotamia consulted when that agreement was drawn up?

The question referred to a Government to be set up. That Government has not yet been set up.

It also refers to the agreement. Were the notables in Mesopotamia consulted with regard to the disposal of their own oil?

I cannot say.

Has this agreement been made without any reference to our policy in Mesopotamia?

That is quite a different question.

Why cannot the hon. Gentleman answer my question, in view of the fact that he is paid to give the House information?

Because I have not the gift of prophesy.

asked the Secretary of State for India whether he can state how many persons were convicted of murder or found guilty of waging war in India last year; what were the sentences passed upon them; and how many have since been amnestied or pardoned?

asked the Secretary of State for India what was the total number of persons convicted of waging war and other crimes during last year's rebellion; how many were pardoned; and in how many cases were the sentences remitted or reduced?

I will answer these two questions together. As I am anxious that the information given shall be accurate and up-to-date, I telegraphed an inquiry to the Government of India on receiving notice of question No. 2 last week. I have since added a further inquiry to cover the "other crimes" referred to by the hon. Member for Eastbourne. As soon as I receive the Government of India's reply I will supply the figures asked for.

asked the Secretary of State for India in how many cases this year the services of the military and police have been lent to proprietary companies in India in order to break strikes; in how many cases firing has occurred; and what was the total number of casualties resulting from police or military intervention in industrial disputes?

As I stated yesterday, in reply to the hon. Member for the Forest of Dean, fifty members of the Labour Corps were recently lent to the Madras Electric Supply Corporation to carry on work, in order to prevent hospitals and other public buildings being left without lights or electric fans. I have not heard of any other case of the kind, but the police and troops have had to intervene to preserve order on other occasions. I have received reports of three cases in which firing took place, with a total of 42 casualties, including between 9 and 11 deaths.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that these electrical workers in Madras were starved into submission after 53 days, and that while the troops were doing their work for them the employers refused to meet the men or discuss any terms whatever?

I am not aware of that, but I would rather resort to any measures than leave the hospitals and other public buildings without necessaries.

Why cannot the right hon. Gentleman coerce the employers of labour as well as black-legging the workers themselves?

asked the Secretary of State for India if he will publish the communications by cable that passed between himself and the Government of India, and a statement of the changes that were consequently made in the drafts of the despatch from the Government of India, and his reply thereto, on the Report of Lord Hunter's Committee?

I have already said, in answer to a question on the 14th July, that I do not propose to publish this correspondence.

asked the Secretary of State for India whether the telegram sent by the Government of the Punjab to the Government of India on the 14th April, 1919, reporting that about 200 had been killed at Amritsar was transmitted to the Secretary of State; and whether he will state on what date the existence of this telegram and of the series of daily communications sent by the Government of the Punjab throughout the period" of the rebellion was made known to Parliament and the public?

The hon. and gallant Member will recollect that public communiqués on the disturbances in India were issued almost daily for over a fortnight from the 14th April, 1919. These were based on telegrams from the Government of India, which, as regards events in the Punjab, were, as was obvious, based on telegrams from the Punjab Government. The particular telegram of the 14th April from the Punjab Government to the Government of India was not transmitted textually to the India Office, but a summary of it was telegraphed.

I will read out the telegrams from India on this incident in the order in which I received them. The first to be received was dated 17th April, and received in London the same day. One paragraph in it ran:

Late at night on the 17th there arrived from the Government of India a long telegram, dated the 15th. containing reports from various places and including the following sentences:

When did the right hon. Gentleman first realise that the 200 casualties meant 200 killed?

The detailed facts with the full casualties were given by me in answer to the hon. and gallant Gentleman himself on the 28th May.

asked the Secretary of State for India whether he is aware that Kundaulal, of Gujerat, aged 10, whose photograph is published in the Report of the Congress Commission on the Amritsar riots, with the legend subscribed that he was sentenced to transportation for life for waging war against the King, was never so sentenced; and, if so, will he make that statement to the House, which, like the British public, may believe that such allegations may contain some substratum of truth?

The answer to both parts of the question is in the affirmative.

asked the Secretary of State for India whether he has information to the effect that His Highness the Nizam has forbidden the promotion of any Khalifat agitation in Hyderabad and that the Hon. Ramanuja Achariyar, a prominent extremist leader in Madras, has publicly dissociated himself from the agitation, which is promoted from outside the Mahommedan community by a Hindu agitator, Mr. Gandhi, and has demanded that the people should give the Government, in the interests of law and order, all possible support?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. As regards the second part, I have seen in the newspapers a report to the effect stated, but I have no official information.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether, owing to the recent reports in reference to Mr. Gandhi, any effective action is to be taken against this incendiary gentleman?

The Seditious Meetings Act has been proclaimed in various places to deal with the situation. I have not heard yet of any further action; but I am taking steps to ensure that I shall receive reports from the Government of India as to the action taken, and I will inform the hon. Gentleman.

Is not His Highness the Nizam, who has disapproved of this agitation in India, the most exalted Mahommedan in Indi?

I think the position of His Exalted Highness the Nizam is well known to the House.

asked the Secretary of State for India whether, considering that military training is compulsory in Australia on all male citizens between the ages of 12 and 26, he will now withdraw his prohibition of the Auxiliary Force Bill brought in by the Government of India?

The Bill to which my hon. and gallant Friend refers was a Bill to secure a defence force on a compulsory basis. That, I submit, is a different thing from a provision for compulsory military training. I have now authorised the Government of India to introduce in the Indian Legislative Council a' Bill for the formation of an auxiliary force on a voluntary basis.

May I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman will not introduce this Bill on a compulsory basis? If Australia can introduce a Bill on a compulsory basis, is there any reason why India should not?

I prefer to wait and see whether we cannot get a defence force on a voluntary basis first.

Is not the answer that Australia governs itself, and that India does not?

asked the Secretary of State for India whether the Government of India is preparing a draft manual of martial law; and, if so, whether steps will be taken to ensure that the instructions contained in the manual do not conflict with the common law principle which, as stated in the manual of military law, declares that an unlawful assembly may be dispersed by force if necessary even though it has committed no act of violence.

The answer to both parts of the question is in the affirmative.

asked the Secretary of State for India whether his attention has been drawn to the manual prepared for the guidance of officers administering martial law in South Africa and printed in Command Paper, 1,423, of 1903; and whether he will bring it to the notice of the Government of India to assist them in compiling a manual of martial law?

The answer to the first part is in the affirmative. As to the second, the action indicated was taken some time back.

asked the Secretary of State for India whether he has made, or will make, representations to the Colonial Office with regard to the importance of giving, not communal, but general representation, to certain Indians in the colonies of Kenia and Tanganyika both in municipal councils and colonial legislatures, in view of the extension of the franchise to Indians in India?

Yes, Sir.

asked the First. Lord of the Admiralty whether he can now state when the official account of the Battle of Jutland will be published?

I am obliged to my noble and gallant Friend for postponing this question, and I regret that I am not yet in a position to add anything to the answer which I gave to a similar question on the 23rd June.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether his Department is still engaged on a History of the Battle of Jutland; and, if so, will he state the probable date of its completion, the number engaged on its compilation, and the total of their salaries?

The compilation of the record of the Battle of Jutland has been entrusted to Captain John E. T. Harper, M.V.O., now Director of Navigation. He now receives no remuneration for this work, which is undertaken in addition to the ordinary duties of his office. No other official is employed for this duty.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he will publish a list of the names of all ships of the Royal Navy which have been sold since the Armistice, and all ships which it is proposed to sell; if he will indicate which ships have been broken up subsequent to the sale; and will he indicate what has been done with all the ex-German ships awarded to Great Britain under the Peace Treaty?

I will circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT a list of the ships which have already been sold. Surplus ships will be disposed of to the best advantage, having regard to market conditions and other factors. I cannot say how many will be sold. It is impracticable to ascertain the subsequent history of ships which have been disposed of. As regards the ex-German ships, these will be broken up under the supervision of an Inter-Allied Commission. The agreement between the Allies is that they should be rendered incapable of further service within a period of 18 months and completely broken up within five years from the date they are handed over.

The following is the List of ships sold :—

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty if he is now in a position to say whether, in considering the withdrawal of cadets under training at Osborne and Dartmouth, he will give special consideration to the sons of officers who have rendered long and distinguished service in the Royal Navy?

The Board of Admiralty feel that there are two classes of naval cadets whose cases are deserving of special treatment, firstly, King's cadets, who under the conditions of their entry must be the sons of naval, military, or air force officers who have lost their lives on active service; and, secondly, cadets who are the sons of naval or marine officers who have served afloat during the War. It has therefore been decided that these two classes of cadets are not to be subject to compulsory withdrawal at the end of their Dartmouth course under the special reduction scheme, but they will be allowed to pass out, irrespective of their place in the passing-out examination, and will then have exactly the same opportunity of staying on in the Navy as they would have had under normal conditions. The number of cadets affected is small, and will make no appreciable difference in the numbers retained. In cases where a cadet has already been withdrawn, the parent or guardian is being given an opportunity of reconsidering his decision.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether it will be possible to grant a Return showing the submissions of the first Welfare Committee, together with the Admiralty decision thereon; has this information yet been promulgated to the Fleet, and, if not, by what date will it be published; has the second Welfare Committee yet commenced its sittings, and is it probable that they will wish to make fresh submissions with regard to some of the points already raised; and, if so, will they be allowed to do so?

As stated in reply to a question on 10th March last, the requests received through the Welfare Committee and the decisions thereon will not be published as a Parliamentary Paper, but they will be issued as a Fleet Order and will "be available in the ordinary course for the Press. The Fleet Order will be issued next week. The second Welfare Committee has not yet met, but the preliminary Inter-port Conference has met at Devonport, and has been provided with an advance copy of the requests and decisions. It has also been arranged for representatives of the Conference to attend at the Admiralty to-morrow to receive further information as to the deci- sions where necessary. The Conference will be allowed to make fresh submissions with regard to points already raised if they wish to do so. As statements have appeared in the Press to the effect that practically none of the request put forward have been granted, I may perhaps be allowed to add that 307 separate requests, great and small, were put forward, and that of these 94 have been granted in whole or in part, 93 are still under consideration and final decisions will be given later, and 120 have not been granted; but these numbers include 36 class requests not recommended by the advisory ratings attached to the Committee.

Are we correct in understanding from that statement that the statements that have appeared in the Press that only two requests have been granted are absolutely without foundation?

Certainly. It is in order to enable the facts to be known that I thought it right to give the figures which I have quoted.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether a large number of H2 and L mines are being retained and stored at Grangemouth and elsewhere, although the sinkers of these mines, with out which they are useless, have been sold; and what is the object of the Government in thus retaining these mines, which might otherwise be converted to useful purposes?

The appropriate reserve of mines to be retained has been very carefully considered. No mines are being retained for which there are not suitable sinkers.

asked the Secretary to the Admiralty if he can make any statement as to the married allowance to naval officers; if he is aware that the naval officer is the only officer or man of the three Services who does not receive this allowance; and if he can give the reason?

I am aware that such allowances are granted to officers of the Army and the Royal Air Force, and also to men of the three Fighting Forces. The advisability of granting such an allowance to naval officers was considered by the Officers' Pay Committee last year, and not recommended, it being deemed' preferable to make adequate provision for them in the matter of pay.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether any of His Majesty's ships of war, colliers, or store-ships, or hired vessels serving His Majesty's ships, are at any of the ports or harbours of the Crimea; if so, what purpose are they serving; whether any of His Majesty's ships are in other ports in South Russia; what purpose they are serving; and when they will be withdrawn?

There are at present ships of His Majesty's Navy in the Crimea for the protection of British interests. There are none of His Majesty's ships in other South Russian ports, and the last two parts of the question do not, therefore, arise.

Are there any British subjects there to protect, and is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Lord Privy Seal yesterday said that we were not taking any responsibility for events in that part of the world, or for General Wrangel?

I did not say there were British subjects. I said there were British interests. With regard to the latter part of the hon. and gallant Gentleman's question, I do not think that arises here at all.

Does not the right hon. Gentleman see that the presence of these ships gives a moral backing to General Wrangel, for whom the gist of the Government have disclaimed responsibility?

I do not think that in answer to a question I am prepared to discuss what "moral backing to General Wrangel" means. We have told General Wrangel that we are not giving him any assistance in the campaign he is conducting, and the action of the British Admiralty is in strict conformity with our pledges in this matter.

I hope we are not giving moral backing to the Soviet Government.

I hope not.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether a Russian warship attempted to enter the Kiel Canal recently on its way to join General Wrangel; what happened to this vessel; who is in charge of her; whether there are any warships in being in the Black Sea manned by partisans of General Wrangel; and whether we are supplying them with coal, stores, or munitions?

I have no information concerning the movements of the warship in question beyond what has appeared in the newspapers. The ship, which is in charge of anti-Bolshevik Russian officers, is believed to be at Cherbourg. With regard to the last two parts of the question, General Wrangel has control of certain Russian men-of-war at Sevastopol, but no coal, stores, or munitions are being supplied to them by us.

How is it that with the right hon. Gentleman's much larger naval intelligence staff than before the War he is unable to give the name and whereabouts of a foreign man-of-war?

I think the answer to that is, that even with the naval intelligence staff that we have, which is as good as it possibly can be, I do not know that it is part of our duty to give this information to the hon. and gallant Gentleman. And, if he will forgive me for saying so, he appears to regard the Board of Admiralty as solely created to keep him informed on every conceivable subject.

Cannot the right hon. Gentleman tell us straight that he does not wish to give the information and—[HON. MEMBERS: "Order," and "Sit down."]

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is now in a position to give any in- formation with regard to the following naval ratings at Devonport taken prisoners at Baku:—R. C. Aspell, leading seaman; J. W. Banks, blacksmith, fourth class; J. A. Greenway, signalman; W. H. Grundy, engine-room artificer, third class; M. Hine, leading telegraphist; F. C. Prout, second sick-berth steward; A. Roche, armourer; and W. T. Ware, leading seaman?

These ratings are included among the naval prisoners at Baku. I fear I can add nothing to the statement made yesterday by my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will give, apart from the Communist Government at present established at Moscow, the various Republics into which the former Russian Empire is now divided; and how many of these Republics are recognised by the Allied Governments and have had their ethnographical boundaries determined?

In reply to the first part of the hon. and gallant Member's question, the following independent Republics have been formed out of the former Russian Empire: — de jure recognition. The remainder have received de facto recognition, with the exception of the Ukraine, Crimean, Verkhnie Udinsk, and Vladivostok Governments. As regards the third part of the question, the ethnographical boundaries of Poland have been provisionally determined by the Supreme Council, but the details of the frontiers of the other countries still form the subject of negotiations between their Governments.

If we have recognised the Azerbaijan Government de facto, why did we not apply to that Government for the release of our prisoners?

The hon. Member must give notice of that question.

asked the Prime Minister (1) whether he is aware of the determination of the majority in this country, apart from our Allies, that the Government shall only enter into negotiations with the Communist Government of Moscow on the understanding that no State or portion of the former Russian empire shall be forced under a Communist form of government, and that General Baron Wrangel or his nominees shall attend any such conference on equal terms and the safety of himself and his people meanwhile held secure;

(2) whether the unconditional surrender of General Wrangel with a promise of personal safety has been put forward as one of the demands of the Communist Government of Moscow before entering into any negotiations with our Government; and has the Government been able to reply that it does not propose to allow the bourgeoisie of the Crimea or any part of Russia to be placed at the mercy of its Communist opponents as a precedent to a commencement of negotiations by this country?

I cannot at present add anything to what has already been said on this subject.

Is it our intention to stand by our French Allies in this matter?

During the whole of the negotiations with the Soviet Government that has been our policy without exception, and my hon. Friend may draw his own conclusions from that.

asked the number of British warships assisting the Greeks in their operations in Thrace; and whether they are under British or Greek control?

Three battleships, four destroyers, and a seaplane carrier, were present and assisted at the Greek landing in Thrace on the morning of the 20th July. They are directly under the command of the British admiral.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether the whole of the wireless telegraphic system of the mercantile marine is in the hands of the Marconi Company as to its operators and instruments?

My right hon. Friend has asked me to answer this question. The bulk of the wireless system of the mercantile marine is in the hands of the Marconi Company, but not the whole, whether as to operators or instruments.

asked the Prime Minister if the Government has come to a decision on the Report of the Advisory Committee on Railway Fares what that decision is; and will the House be given the opportunity of discussing the matter before the Report is put into effect?

asked the Prime Minister what is the decision of the Government on the Report of the Advisory Committee respecting the increase of railway fares; can he state from what date such increases will come into force; and will he state if ordinary return tickets issued before the date that any increase becomes effective will be allowed to be used without any surcharge?

asked the Lord Privy Seal whether, in view of the proposals made for increasing railway fares, the Government will consider the possibility of immediately re-establishing tourist and week-end tickets at existing fares, in order to avoid personal hardship to the large number of people who are compelled to take their holidays in August and September because schools and other official holidays fall after July?

The Government have given their very earnest consideration to the Report of the Rates Advisory Committee—which Committee I would remind the House was specially set up by Act of Parliament as a representative body, with an independent judicial Chairman, and with three out of five of its members representative of trade, agriculture and labour, for the purpose of giving advice to the Government and for "safeguarding any interests affected" by directions which the Government may give as to the rates, fares and charges; also to consider the fairness and adequacy of the methods proposed to be adopted.

This Committee has held public inquiry and has made its recommendations. The Government, in accordance with the Statute, notified the Committee on the 8th July that the railways were working at an estimated deficit at the rate of £54,500,000 a year. This deficit could not have been estimated earlier as it was largely due to the conclusion of the National Wages Board set up to consider the claims of the men, which reported on the 3rd June, and other large increases—due to the price of coal, and increases of allowances under the sliding scale as the cost of living rose—which materialised between the 1st April and the 1st July as well as the continued increase in the cost of other materials and in local rates.

There was no possibility of estimating in advance the amount of the increased costs under those heads, and therefore it was impossible to have adopted the only course open to us and make a reference to the Rates Advisory Committee under the terms of the Act at an earlier date.

In reply to questions in this House on the 3rd, 7th, 14th, 21st and 28th of June, the Minister of Transport and I gave the clearest possible intimation that the increased costs under these heads would have to be placed upon the railway fares, rates and charges at the earliest possible moment, the only alternative being a State subsidy at the expense of the general taxation.

The railways, like every other industry in this country and in all other countries, have had to meet large increases in the cost of labour and materials. The pay bill of the railway companies in Great Britain has risen from £47,000,000 to £161,000,000, well over three times their pre-War figure. Coal and all other engineering works are costing about three times their pre-War figure; steel rails and pig iron, four times, while the cost of living and every other index one can apply has risen out of all proportion to the proposed increase in rates.

It was in the face of these increases that the Cabinet had to consider whether there was any good and sufficient reason for declining to act on the advice given to them by the Committee, which has recommended that ordinary tickets should be increased by one-sixth above the present rates, equal to 75 per cent. above their pre-War figure; that a new scale, much less than half the ordinary fares should be applied for the carriage of travellers to their work in the early morning who return after 5 o'clock in the evening; that season tickets should be put on the level of 50 per cent. above their pre-War figure and that traders' tickets, which they consider unduly low, should be granted at 20 per cent. less than the ordinary season ticket.

These recommendations the Government has decided to adopt, with effect from and including the 6th August, as recommended by the Committee, with the following reservation as regards workmen's tickets— which the Committee point out is a misnomer, as the special arrangement has applied to all third class travellers by those trains irrespective of occupation—"These so-called workmen's fares are at present on their pre-War level, and. the Government accept in principle the view of the Committee that these fares must be adequately raised.

In view, however, of the great divergence in the basis of the present fares and of the fact that the adoption of a uniform basis for the future may cause undue hardship in particular cases, further detailed consideration is necessary. The recommendations of the Committee will involve examination of individual fares, and it is not practicable to introduce the new cheap early train fares during the month of August, but it is the decision of the Government that increased fares for this traffic will be brought into operation as from the 1st September, and further notification will be made in due course.

The recommendations in regard to Ireland have also been considered, and the increased charges will come into force on the same dates as in Great Britain. The increases recommended in ordinary, season and traders' tickets are higher than is the case in Great Britain and as explained in the Report, this is due to the fact that the deficiency in Ireland is relatively larger than in Great Britain."

To summarise, the increases proposed are extraordinarily moderate compared to the increase in every other relevant cost. The reference to the Advisory Committee could not have been made earlier, because the principal items in expenditure were only known in June. The most clear intimation was given, immediately these items were known, that fares and charges would have to go up, and no delay took place in referring the matter to the Statutory Body appointed for the purpose. To have applied the increase of fares after the holiday months would have entailed a very much larger increase—as it would have shortened the period over which the deficit could have been made good, and would therefore have placed a very much heavier burden upon the passengers for the rest of the year.

The only alternative, therefore, to putting up fares and charges immediately is for the taxpayer to assume the burden, and that was an alternative which the Government felt obliged to reject.

Owing to the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House, in order to call attention to this as a matter of definite and urgent public importance.

I should like to ask whether the £54,000,000 deficit mentioned by the right hon. Gentleman is the deficit for this year, or whether it takes into account the differences now existing between the Ministry and the railway companies on the question of deferred maintenance, and how much out of the £54,000,000 in this year that includes; also, whether the three-times increase in the Wage Bill is explained by the fact that there are to-day 100,000 more employés than there were in 1914?

As regards the first part of the inquiry, it has nothing whatever to do with the question. The question of what we will get back from the railways comes into account as to the amount payable in fulfilment of the old agreement, and has nothing to do with this deficit. It is the case, as the right hon. Gentleman has pointed out, that the large increase in the Wage Bill is not entirely due to higher wages, but in part to the larger number of employés, brought about, undoubtedly, by shorter hours.

May I ask for a reply to the latter part of the question of the hon. Member for South Islington (Mr. Higham), which the right hon. Gentleman has left entirely unanswered? When will the House have an opportunity of discussing this matter? I press that because of the argumentative nature of the reply.

I do not think it was an argumentative reply. It was, at all events, what I believe to be a statement of the facts. I can give no promise, so far as the Government is concerned, of affording an opportunity for discussion.

Why does not the right hon. Gentleman give 15 days' notice to the holiday-makers and the ordinary passengers, seeing that he has given it to traders?

I gave much more than 15 days' notice, for I stated on the 3rd June that increased rates would be put into force as soon as we had decided on the amount.

Is it not the fact that under this new arrangement every other class of passenger traffic is to pay the new rates imposed on 6th August and workmen's tickets only are to have another month to run?

It is not merely the workmen. I made it quite plain in the notice issued there was no favour to that class. It is due to the fact that an examination is required which is not practicable at present.

Will the right hon. Gentleman reply to the latter part of my question, i.e. , if ordinary return tickets issued before the date that any increase becomes effective will be allowed to be used without any surcharge?

I have answered that many times. They will be available during the ordinary period to which they apply.

At the end of Questions—

I understand that by arrangement it is agreeable to take my Motion for the Adjournment of the House on the question of railway fares to-morrow.

I will raise no objection if the hon. Member desires to postpone it.

asked the Minister of Labour if his attention has been called to an official statement to the effect that the travelling privileges granted to railway employés have always been taken into account when railwaymen's wages were being fixed; whether the record of the negotiations that have taken place from time to time with regard to railway workers' wages bears out this statement; whether in any of such negotiations the companies' representatives submitted any estimate of the value of such privileges; and, if so, will he give particulars of such valuation?

I have been asked to answer this question. The travelling privileges enjoyed, by railway employés have been borne in mind in discussing railwaymen's wages, but it is not possible to give any definite figures as to the monetary value of such privileges as cheap tickets, free passes, etc., owing to the variety of circumstances which arise. Travelling privileges have been granted to railwaymen for many years, and, as pointed out in replies given by me on the subject on the 21st July, they are maintained by Section 7 of the Ministry of Transport Act, 1919.

Are these privileges taken into consideration in fixing the rates of wages?

I am informed that they have always been taken into consideration, but that the railway companies have declined to regard them as conditions of service. My information is that they have frequently been discussed when wages and conditions of service were under consideration.

If they have always been taken into consideration in fixing the rates of wages, can the hon. Gentleman tell me what value has been placed upon these privileges; if not how is it possible to take them into consideration?

The fact that they are in existence has always been considered, but it has never been found possible to place an actual value on them.

May I ask whether it is true that these privileges have been submitted to the various arbitrators with the result that no railwayman enjoys the same district rates as a fellow employé doing the same work in private industry, and that the difference in these rates is the estimate and the value of the privileges?

I am not able to answer that question quite specifically; but it is the fact that these questions are not lost sight of in railway labour when questions of the sort are being discussed.

In view of the deep interest that is taken in questions of labour at the present time, may I ask my hon. Friend, if I put a question later, whether he will consult all the officials and give a statement as to the value placed upon these privileges?

I have already consulted every available source of information— that, I have no doubt, the hon. Gentleman will take from me. I have seen an estimate—a very vague one—by one railway company, which they were not prepared to vouch for as in any sense accurate, which put the value of this privilege at Is. 6d. per week. But it is impossible to ascertain exactly what is the value.

If that be an approximate estimate, is the hon. Gentleman aware that the difference in the railway district rate and the ordinary district rate for the same class of employés doing precisely the same work is at least a minimum of 4s. each?

No, I am not aware of that. I should like to have notice of questions of that sort.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that the South Stoneham Board of Guardians is now paying to its employés the same salaries and wages as in July, 1914, except for increases of 2s. 6d. a week in certain cases, and that the board has repeatedly refused either to grant any war bonuses to its employés or to refer this difference to arbitration; and whether he is prepared to take any action in the matter?

I am aware that this board of guardians is refusing to grant the war bonuses requested by its employés, or to refer the question to arbitration. I have urged the guardians, in default of agreement, to submit the case to arbitration, and I much regret that I have no power to take any further action.

Will the right hon. Gentleman ask this House to give him powers to deal with recalcitrant boards of guardians?

As a rule hon. Members complain of the autocratic power of Government Departments.

asked the Minister of Health when it is proposed to introduce legislation for the purpose of carrying out the recommendations of the Departmental Committee on the Dentists Act, 1878?

The Bill will be introduced before the Recess.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the introduction of legislation on this subject was promised before the Whitsuntide Recess, and can he say definitely if it will be introduced before the Recess?

I expect it will.

asked the Minister of Health whether his atten- tion has been drawn to the application of the Normanton urban district council to borrow the sum of £550 for the purchase of land for housing purposes; whether he is aware that the council first made application for this loan on the 9th September, 1919; that the Ministry have sanctioned the borrowing of money for the erection of 126 houses on this site; and whether, in view of the fact that the vendor of this land threatens to rescind the contract for purchase, he will have immediate inquiries made into this matter?

The land in question comprises about 5 acres, which it is proposed to acquire as an extension to a site of approximately 17 acres, on which the 126 houses referred to are to be built. The application for sanction to a loan was made before the site had been submitted to my Department for approval for housing purposes; full information has only recently been furnished to the Ministry, and I am advised that the risk of subsidence of this particular area is serious, and that without a right of support the site is not worth the price asked for it.

asked the Minister of Health whether he can give any particulars of the arbitrators' award in connection with the Acton urban district council's housing scheme; and whether the price claimed by the owner was reduced by £25,000 by the arbitrators?

asked the Minister of Health whether he can give any particulars of the arbitrators' award in connection with the Acton urban district council's housing scheme; and whether the price claimed by the owner was reduced by £25,000 by the arbitrators?

asked the Minister of Health whether the award of the arbitrators has been given respecting the price of the land for the housing schemes of the Acton urban district council; and, if so, whether he will say if the land lord's price was reduced by £25,000 by the arbitrators.

The site in question consists of approximately 59 acres of land formerly used as a golf club. The claim made by the owners amounted to £58,854, and the district council contended that the value of the land was £33,000. The arbitrator awarded £33,000 and ordered the claimant to pay the costs of the acquiring authority.

Does the right hon. Gentleman suggest that the saving of £25,000 is due to the existence of the Land Valuation Department?

Certainly to the land valuation officers attached to the Ministry of Health.

Does he say it is due to the acquisition of the Land Act?

Yes, it is due to the expert gentleman using the Acts which have been passed.

asked the Minister of Health if Old Age Pensions are paid pending the appeal for a higher sum by the applicant?

An Old Age Pension is paid to an existing pensioner at the current rate pending the decision on his appeal for a higher sum; but a pension cannot be paid on a new claim until the right to a pension has been finally decided.

asked the Prime Minister what is considered to be the southern boundary of the area under the French mandate in those parts of Syria which lie to the east of the River Jordan?

This question is at present under discussion.

asked the Prime Minister whether he has any information to the effect that an offensive and defensive alliance has been concluded between the Emir Feisal and Mustapha Kemal, or whether there are any signs of definite military co-operation between the two?

The answer is in the negative.

asked the Prime Minister whether he can give any information regarding the progress of events in Syria, and particularly in the city of Damascus?

The narrative of events at Damascus is somewhat obscure, but the salient features appear to be as follows. The French ultimatum which was due to expire on the 20th was accepted by the Emir Feisal although his reply owing to some accident did not reach the French Commander until the advance of the latter had already begun. Upon its receipt the French informed the Emir Feisal that, unless attacked they would not occupy Damascus and an armistice was then concluded. Unfortunately at this stage an attack was delivered by the Arabs upon the French at Tel Kallah; a battle ensued in which Feisal's War Minister was killed and the Arabs sustained a severe defeat; and on 25th July the French occupied Damascus without further opposition.

The situation in the town is reported to be quiet, but we have no definite information as to whether the Emir Feisal is there or not.

Is the British liaison officer formerly with the Arab Government in Damascus still there, and are we in direct communication with him?

I should like to have notice of that question.

asked the Prime Minister how far and in what places the administrative authority of the Government of Palestine extends to the east of the River Jordan?

The administrative authority of the Government of Palestine does not extend to the east of the River Jordan.

Will the eastern boundary of Palestine in future be the River Jordan?

I should like notice of that question.

Who is administering the country east of the River Jordan?

I desire to have notice of that question.

asked the Lord Privy Seal if the House will adjourn on or before Saturday, 14th August?

I still hope so.

asked the Lord Privy Seal if the German Government has complied with Clause 13 of the Annex to Article 297 of the Peace Treaty as to the delivery of accounts, vouchers, and other information within German territory which may concern the nationals of the Allies who are parties to the Treaty; and, if not, will he state what action the Government have taken to enforce the carrying out of this provision?

At the request of the German Government, it is proposed to permit delivery of the detailed accounts to be made at the time when the property to which they relate is returned to its British owners. This course, which has also been adopted by France, has appeared desirable in the interest of the British owner and of the due fulfilment of the obligations of the German Government under paragraph 8 of the Annex referred to.

Does the hon. Gentleman recognise the fact that many British subjects who had houses in Germany have asked the German Government for this information, and that the German Government have so far declined to give it; and will he take steps through the proper channels to see that British sub- jects asking for information as laid down in the Peace Treaty shall certainly receive it?

We began to communicate with the German Government on the 1st March. The agreement we hope to arrive at is the same one as between them and the French.

asked the Lord Privy Seal whether, having regard to the importance to British trade of the points contained in the Report of the Merchandise Marks Committee, he can state whether the Government intends to deal with the recommendations of the Committee during the present Session of Parliament?

I have been asked to answer this question. I hope it may be possible soon after the Recess to introduce a Bill, based on the recommendations of the Committee.

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware of the unrest existing among the Poor Law officers of the Hailsham (Sussex) union; and if he will take steps to see that the question of their war bonuses is referred to arbitration.

I am aware that these Guardians have declined a request of their staff for the grant of war bonus, and I have pressed them to refer the issue to arbitration. I am afraid I can take no further action.

asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether, at the Galway assizes, held on 19th July, jurymen were held up by men with revolvers on roads approaching the Court and sent home; whether only 13 out of 200 special jurors and 21 out of 250 common jurors answered their names, and cases down for trial could not be taken; whether all absent jurymen were fined; and whether, in view of the failure of the Government to afford protection to these jurymen, these fines will now be remitted?

The figures quoted are correct, but it is not true that jurymen were held up in the town or vicinity of the Court. It is alleged that they were held up in the road from Athenry to Galway. As regards the remission of fines inflicted, I would refer my hon. and gallant Friend to my reply to the question of the hon. and gallant Member for the Fylde Division of Lancaster (Colonel Ashley) on the 14th instant in a similar, case.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that those jurors who were fined have received notice from the competent military authority of the Irish Republic commanding them not to pay their fines, and threatening those who disobey? Is there any assurance that the Government-will be able to protect these unfortunate men if they do pay their fines?

Of course, the Government will do its best to protect men and to save them from being blackmailed by anybody.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will state why the period of service of an officer or non-commissioned officer in the West African Field Force is disallowed for civil pension from colonial funds; and whether these officers were assured on their joining up that they would lose neither seniority nor pension, or in any other way lose in consequence of their doing so?

An Army officer or noncommissioned officer who is seconded temporarily for service in the West African Frontier Force, and who is after wards appointed to a civil pensionable post in West Africa, is not entitled to reckon his West African Frontier Force service as pensionable service in comput- ing the amount of his civil pension, as such service is purely military and not civil. But a pensionable civil official in a West African Colony who, during the War, was seconded from his civil post and attached to the West African Frontier Force, can reckon his service with the force as pensionable service in computing the amount of his civil pension.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he will issue as a Blue Book reports on our administration of those portions of ex-German East Africa, Togoland, and Cameroons in which we have been in possession since our military occupation, giving an account of the revenue, expenditure, administration, public health, commerce, settlement, land policy, etc., in each area to date?

As regards ex-German East Africa, an annual report on the lines of those published for Colonies will be issued in due course. In the case of Togoland and the Cameroons the final settlement of the boundary between the British and French zones has been too recent to admit of any reports being prepared which could be usefully issued as a Blue Book. Instructions are being sent to the local authorities that, when the new administrative arrangements have been in force a few months, they should furnish suitable reports for presentation to Parliament.

Will the hon. and gallant Gentleman inform me when we are likely to have the first report on Tanganyika Territory, and whether it will cover the whole period since the Armistice?

I hope it will be ready in a few months. I fancy that during the earlier period the administration was of so skeleton a character that there cannot be very much to report.

Will the hon. and gallant Gentleman see that the land policy which is being followed in these territories is set out in these Reports?

That shall be considered.

asked the Under-Secretary for the Colonies whether any grants of land or extensions of grants of land have been made to European settlers in ex-German East Africa since the Armistice; if so, on what terms and whether freehold or only leasehold grants; what proportion of ex-German East Africa had been alienated to non-native settlers before the Armistice; whether all titles to land held by German settlers have been expropriated; and whether any of the land so expropriated has been regranted or sold to new settlers?

It has not been found possible to make any grants of land in the Tanganyika Territory hitherto. Existing claims to land in the Territory must be ascertained and either rejected or admitted before it is possible to give a sound title to new applicants, and, since a large proportion of the German records have disappeared, and the Land Department of the Territory is still in process of formation, it is probable that some time must elapse before any grants can be made. The plantations belonging to ex-enemy subjects are in the hands of the Custodian of Enemy Property and will be sold by him. Due notice of such sales will be given in this country.

Will the hon. and gallant Gentleman give an assurance that the Colonial Office will not endeavour to introduce into these territories any super-scientific standard?

Will he also see that any new grants of land that are made are leasehold and not freehold, as in Kenia Colony?

That point shall receive consideration.

Why should not Kenia policy be followed in Tanganyika?

Particular circumstances govern these cases, and I should not like to give an off-hand answer.

Is it not a fact that no new grants of land can be given until the terms of the mandate have been decided?

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether any and, if so, what action has been taken with regard to the conferring of the franchise on certain Indians and Africans in connection with either local or central government in Kenia Colony; and whether he will consider the appointment of a committee of this House to report on the possibility of granting responsible and representative government in municipal or general matters to the colony?

The matter referred to in the first part of the question is still under consideration. The answer to the latter part of the question is in the negative.

Have any representations been received from the India Office on this subject?

The India Office and the Colonial Office have been in consultation on the subject.

Are no steps being taken at the present time to set up a committee to inquire into the franchise possibilities in East Africa?

No, Sir. The consultation in question was on the question of Indians, and not on the question of setting up a committee.

Does not the Indian question depend upon the franchise?

Not on setting up a committee.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he can yet lay Papers respecting the grant of Constitutional Reforms to Ceylon analogous to the reforms in India; and, if not, when he expects to be able to do so?

The Secretary of State has decided, after full consideration, to recommend to His Majesty that certain changes should be made in the Constitution of Ceylon, which will give a large measure of popular control over the Administration. To summarise the proposals involves a somewhat long reply which, with the hon. and gallant Mem- ber's consent, I propose to circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

The following is the information referred to :

Under the existing Constitution the Legislative Council of Ceylon contains only four elected members; the remainder being either official members or members nominated by the Government to represent separate communities. Further, the official vote is in a permanent majority on all questions. It is proposed to alter the constitution of the Legislative Council in two directions. In the first place, there will be a considerable extension of the principle of popular election in the selection of members. In the second place, the unofficial members will be given a substantial majority over the official vote.

It is proposed that the reformed Council shall consist of 37 members exclusive of the Governor, who will preside. There will be 14 official members and 23 unofficial members. Of the unofficial members, in the first place, 16, and as soon as suitable arrangements can be made, 19 will be elected by various constituencies. Eleven members will be elected on a territorial basis. The franchise and qualifications for candidates will follow the proposals of the Ceylon National Congress. Two members will be elected to represent the European community and one the Burgher community, as at present. One member will be elected by the Chamber of Commerce and one by the Low Country Products Association. As soon as arrangements can be made, the demarcation of constituencies and the preparation of registers for the Kandyan and Indian communities will be undertaken, but in the first instance two members will be nominated to represent the Kandyan and one to represent the Indian community. At at present, one member will be nominated to represent the Mohammedan community. It has been thought impossible, owing to the wide distribution of the Mohammedans throughout the Island, to introduce any system of election for this community, but the Secretary of State will be prepared to consider any practical proposals to this end that may be laid before him in the future. In addition, the Governor will be given power to appoint not exceeding three unofficial members to represent such interests as in this opinion are not adequately provided for otherwise. It will be definitely laid down by the Secretary of State that nominated unofficial members shall not in any event be required to vote according to the directions of the Governor.

It will thus be seen that the unofficial members will be in a majority of 9 over the official members. The Governor will have both an original and a casting vote if he should choose to exercise it. In order to prevent the occurrence of a deadlock in any essential matter, it will be provided that the Governor may declare that the passing of any measure is of paramount importance to the public interest and that in such a case the measure, may be carried by the votes of the official members. In every such case the Governor will be required to report his action to the Secretary of State and to explain his reasons. The Governor will also have power to stop the proceedings of the Council in relation to any measure which he certifies to affect the safety or transquillity of Ceylon. It is contemplated that these reserve powers will be used rarely, if at all, but experience has shown the necessity of a reserve power of this nature to prevent the administration being brought to a standstill, and somewhat similar provisions are contained in the Government of India Act.

As regards the Executive Council, the existing Royal Instructions provide for the appointment of any persons by the Governor in pursuance of instructions from His Majesty through the Secretary of State, and the Secretary of State proposes when the reformed Council is constituted to advise His Majesty to instruct the Governor to appoint three unofficial members of the Executive Council.

Did not the hon. and gallant Gentleman promise that this House should have an opportunity of discussing these proposals before they were enacted? Do I understand that he now withdraws that?

The proposals are now in the form of proposals and have not yet been enacted. No doubt there will be an opportunity for discussion in the immediate future on the Consolidated Fund Bill or on other occasions.

Did not the hon. and gallant Gentleman promise us a chance of voting on these matters t Discussion on the Consolidated Fund Bill, as I need hardly remind him, does not afford any opportunity of expressing our views in the Lobby. Are we not going, on the question of granting such reforms to Ceylon, to have an opportunity of voting?

May I ask whether a. discussion in this House of a matter like this does not really resolve itself into a long duologue between the hon. and gallant Member and the Undersecretary?

As far as I am concerned the duologue will not be prolonged, but I do not think the undertaking I gave ever extended beyond an opportunity for discussion before the matter was irrevocably settled. It has not been the habit, when colonial constitutions have been changed, to submit them in the form of legislation.