asked the Secretary of State for India how many persons have been prosecuted in India for seditious utterances in speeches or newspapers during the past three months, and how many have been convicted; and whether any prosecutions have been instituted for incitement to assault and riot?

I regret that I have not the complete figures to enable me to reply fully to my hon. and gallant Friend I have telegraphed for them, and will let him know as soon as I receive them

asked the Secretary of State for India whether the terms of the trading agreement which has been entered into with Russia have been officially communicated to the Indian Government; and if he will state what action has been taken by that Government to ensure the expulsion from India of known Soviet agents?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. The Government of India instituted a special organisation to deal with Bolshevik activities in India, and although it would not be advisable to state what has actually been done, I can assure my hon. and gallant Friend that every step necessary to checkmate them has been taken, I trust, successfully.

Is it not the fact that Mr. Gandhi lately stated that he preferred Bolshevik rule to British rule in India, and under these circumstances ought he not to be the first to be deported as a Soviet agent?

I prefer to leave the maintenance of order in India to the authorities there.

had given notice of the following Question—to ask the Secretary of State for India if he has received information from India concerning a Resolution reported to have been passed by all the non-official European members of the Council of State and the legislative assembly objecting to the formation in London of an Indian emergency committee as unnecessary and calculated to create prejudice and ill-feeling; and if he will furnish the House with a copy of the Resolution as well as with reports of the speeches lately delivered in India by His Royal Highness the Duke of Connaught, in which appeals were made to all classes of the population to join in burying recent controversies?

No, Sir, but I have seen a message from the non-official members of the Indian Legislature in the Press. I will place a copy of the proceedings at the opening of the Indian Legislature, including His Royal Highness's speech, in the Library.

Arising out of this question, may I ask your guidance, Mr. Speaker, as to whether it is in order for an hon. Member to put a question down reflecting, as it does, on a certain Committee, which consists of two Members of the other House, and one Member of this House, myself, and not appear in his place to ask it? I want to ask whether the question should not be deferred and not answered among the written answers until such time as the hon. Member chooses to come to the House and put it personally, so that I may put a supplementary question, or give a personal explanation?

The hon. Member who put down the question may have been detained by an accident by flood or field.

With great deference, Sir, and in answer to that, may I ask whether a written answer may be postponed until the hon. Member who, of course, as you say, may have been detained by flood or field, can come down and put the question in open House so that it may be dealt with? As you, Sir, realise, the House adjourns to-morrow, and answers to unanswered questions—and I do not know what this answer may be—may be printed and contain reflection upon the Members of this Committee to which we have no possibility of replying?

The hon. Member is asking me to overrule the Order of the House, which is to the effect that if a question is not asked the answer should be circulated on the following day. Perhaps the best plan would be for the hon. Gentleman to see the answer, and if, then, if he is not satisfied, he can make a personal explanation to-morrow, or he can put a question to-morrow. I would accept a question on the subject.

Thank you. Sir.

asked the Secretary of State for India whether, in view of the fact that there appears to be an extensive recrudescence of the cultivation of the poppy in the provinces of Fukien and Yunnan, and that, as the result of the present disordered state of China, many other provinces are also drifting rapidly back to the state of things existing before the opium treaties, it is proposed to continue the opium policy pursued in India whereby the inhabitants of India suffer higher taxation and the inhabitants of China reap no advantage?

It is not proposed to make any change in the opium policy of the Government of India as a result of the recrudescence of poppy cultivation in China. The matter is now governed by the Hague Convention; under that Convention, as China has prohibited the import of opium, India is bound to prevent the export of Indian opium to China.

Would it not be easier for the Government of China, when they have reestablished their powers, to suppress poppy cultivation in their own country than to suppress the import of opium from India if it is allowed to be started again?

I do not think that that question arises. I have informed the House that there is no intention of altering the opium policy of the Government.

Will the right, hon. Gentleman stand firm on this question, and not listen to the importunities of the opium trade on the subject?

We are bound in the matter of our opium policy by The Hague Convention. Under that Convention so long as China prohibits the importation we cannot export to China.

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that the prohibition of China of the import of opium is merely an empty form; whether the action of India is not affected by it; and is it not the case that this is one of the subjects now brought within the all-embracing programme of the League of Nations; does its decision override that of The Hague Convention in this particular matter?

I am given to understand that the matter will be discussed by what is called the Opium Advisory Committee of the League of Nations at the forthcoming Congress in Geneva.

asked the Secretary of State for India if he has any information regarding the reduction of the grant for police in the Bengal legislative council by 23 lakhs of rupees against the considered opinion of the Bengal Government; and what action he proposes to take in the matter?

asked the Secretary of State for India whether the Bengal legislative council have recently reduced the grant for police expenditure in the Province by 23 lakhs or more than one-eighth of the total grant demanded; and whether, in view of the unrest throughout India, steps can be taken to rectify this?

I have no information beyond that which appeared in the Press on the 21st instant. I am inquiring as to the facts and action proposed by the Governor.

In view of the fact that Bengal has a population of 50,000,000, and that there are only 3,000 or 4,000 troops in the whole Province, ought not the police of that province to be increased rather than decreased, especially now that law and order are at such a discount in the whole of India?

I do not think it is at a discount. I am perfectly prepared to repose the completest confidence in Lord Ronaldshay and the Government of India.

May we take it that the right hon. Gentleman will communicate with India on this matter?

The hon. Gentleman knows that the restoration of this Vote is within the power of the Governor of Bengal and I have no knowledge of the facts except what has appeared in the Press. I have, however, inquired, and I will let the hon. Member know when I get the results of my communication. At the present time I prefer to leave the matter to the Governor of Bengal's discretion.

Are we to understand that the right hon. Gentleman gets this information of first-rate importance from the Press first and not direct from India?

As soon as I saw the, report in the paper I sent a telegram to India to ascertain the facts. That is the first step we have taken. I am perfectly convinced that there is no difference of opinion between any Member of this House and the Governor of Bengal as to the absolute necessity of maintaining a sufficient number of police in Bengal to restore order.

Will the right hon. Gentleman answer my question: Does he receive information of this kind first from the Press or does he get communications before those of the Press, direct from India?

The first knowledge which I had of this event which, I think, occurred only a day or two ago was from the Press. The matter lies within the discretion of the Governor of Bengal. I presume in due course I shall hear from him what action has been taken. As a matter of fact I have had no communication yet from the Government of India as to this matter, and my first knowledge was derived from the Press.

Is it not the duty of the Government of India to communicate to the Secretary of State for the information of this House any vital matters which ought not to be anticipated by Press reports?

I wish my right hon. Friend would put himself in the place of the Governor of a Province. I cannot assume there is importance in a newspaper report which may relate to a perfectly simple matter. My right hon. Friend knows that the Governor has ample power under this Act. The report may relate to a matter which does not require a special communication to be made by telegram.

Is it not the fact that an up-to-date Press can beat an official Department in point of time?

asked the Secretary of State for India whether an outbreak occurred at Nagpur, in the Central Provinces, on the 23rd February, when the Deputy Commissioner is said to have been stoned and wounded, and the civil surgeon seriously injured and his car smashed up by a mob of some 5,000 rioters who created a tumult in the city and broke into the District Court because two criminals had been arrested; and, if so, how it was that no communication on the subject has been issued to the Press; and whether, in view of the general anxiety in regard to the situation, he will take steps to issue a brief bulletin, daily if possible, summarising the news received from India for the information of Parliament and the public?

I am circulating an account collected from a series of telegrams of the disturbance at Nagpur, from which I am glad to think it will be seen that it was not so serious as my hon. and gallant Friend's question would indicate. It is not always, I think, the best way to give an accurate picture of events in India to publish each telegram relating to such matters as it is received. I recognise the importance of furnishing the public with regular information about India and have been considering the best way of achieving it. I hope that a new organisation with this object in view will shortly be working. My Noble Friend Lord Lytton is taking the matter under his charge.

Is it not the fact that all the British population in Nagpur had to be collected in the Armoury and kept there all night for protection? Is it right that the public of this country should have to await letters like that printed in the Press this morning for information as to what is going on in India?

The information I have circulated is collated from telegrams I have received and it does not contain an account of that kind.

The following is the account promised:

The disturbances referred to arose out of the arrest of a prominent local resident on a charge of sedition. A large meeting of protest was held, and on the 23rd February there was a general abstention from work, which did not extend to the mills. On the next day the auction sales of liquor shops for the district were to be held at the District Courts. A large crowd assembled to prevent the sales and assaulted one of the contractors. The police pressed the mob back to the city, where it dispersed. Two European officers and a few police constables were injured, but not seriously. In the city the mob again collected and looted several liquor shops, the police force being inadequate to control them. The same night another mass meeting was held with no serious consequences. A small force of troops were called in from the cantonment at Kamptee.

On the morning of the 25th everything was quiet and everybody at work. The District Magistrate, in the exercise of his ordinary powers, prohibited public meetings for one month. Notwithstanding this, an attempt was made to hold one, but the crowd dispersed quietly on learning that the meeting was prohibited. The sales, however, could not take place because the contractors were afraid to attend. The District Magistrate had an interview with the leaders of the Non-co-operation Movement, and warned them that the order prohibiting meetings would be enforced and that peace and order would be maintained by all the means at his disposal. The leaders undertook to use their influence to keep things quiet, but would give no guarantee. The Magistrate also prohibited persons entering the civil lines from the city without good reasons, fearing another demonstration at the courts during the hearing of a case in which a doctor was showing cause against an order prohibiting the picketing of liquor shops. That order has since been confirmed and made absolute for two months. The Governor of the Central Provinces sent a message to the Council regarding the disturbances, repudiating false statements about Government policy and stating that the Government would use all lawful and reasonable means to enforce authority by taking legal action against offenders. He invited the support of all responsible persons against the movement directed towards subverting the authority of the Government. My latest information, dated the 17th of this month, is that there has been no further trouble in Nagpur. It will be observed that the particulars of the disturbances as received by me do not bear out the alarming details given in the question, and it was because of this that it was not considered necessary to make any special communication to the Press.

asked the Secretary of State for India what decision has been reached with regard to the return of German missionaries to India; and, in that case, what precautions will be taken to avoid a recurrence of political propaganda, particularly at the present time?

In pursuance of the general policy of the Government of India and subject to exceptions only where that Government are satisfied that very special reasons to justify admission into India exist, Germans, of whatever occupation, are excluded from India for a period of five years from the conclusion of the War. The second part of the question therefore does not arise.

asked the Secretary of State for India whether he can now make his promised statement on the position of the Army in India?

The Prime Minister has decided on my recommendation to submit the military requirements of India to a Sub-Committee of the Committee of Imperial Defence. While it is obviously desirable to secure reductions in military expenditure in India as in other parts of the world, they can only be achieved if compatible with the internal and external security of India. It therefore appears desirable that such an investigation should take into consideration improvements in equipment, mobility and general efficiency. The Government of India have announced that they are appointing a committee of the Viceroy's Executive Council to prepare the material to lay before the Committee of Imperial Defence.

Arising out of this very important statement, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether the late Commander-in-Chief (Sir Charles Monro) will be added to the Sub-Committee of Imperial Defence, and whether, pending the decision of the Committee of Imperial Defence, no further reductions will take place in the Indian Army?

I can give an assurance that no further reductions will be made pending the inquiry. The first part of the question should, I think, be addressed to the Prime Minister, who will appoint the Committee, but I cannot conceive that such an inquiry will proceed far with its investigation without availing itself of the opinions of the gallant soldier, to whom the hon. Member has referred, and to whom also the Army in India owes so much.

May I ask whether the Committee of Imperial Defence will have power to suggest to the Government of India—if it sees fit—that the alterations already made in the Indian Army should be cancelled?

Certainly. What we want to arrive at is a scientific investigation of what is necessary in the present circumstances for the internal and external security of India. These are the only considerations which can govern the Indian Army.

Will the Sub-Committee of Imperial Defence have anyone on it who is qualified and able to deal with the extremely difficult question of the health of the Indian Army?

The inquiry will deal with the strength of the army in India. I respectfully suggest that questions as to the composition of the Committee should be addressed to the Prime Minister.

Is it not the fact that the first action of the Reformed Councils in India was to pass resolutions entailing a heavy reduction of the Indian Army and police and a curtailment of propaganda? Is this to be allowed to proceed?

I would, prefer to answer that question on a specific reference to the particular resolution. I do not know what the hon. and gallant Member has in his mind. The Legislative Assembly of India has passed a resolution on the Esher Report, but the best evidence of its determination to provide for the defence of the country is to be found in the alacrity with which it has passed the heavy Budget provision necessary for the Army.

MayI—

Notice had better be given of any further questions.

asked the Secretary of State for India if Mr. Harkishan Lai and others, convicted of conspiracy to wage war, and sentenced to transportation for life by three Judges, appealed against the convictions and sentences to the Privy Council; whether they were pardoned by the Executive while their appeals were pending, though similar appeals from others had been dismissed by the Privy Council; and, if so, what was the special reason why these appeals should not have been allowed to run their course?

The answer to the first two parts of the question is in the affirmative, though it is not the case, as the question implies, that the grant or refusal of pardons was determined by probabilities of the justice or legality of the convictions. As regards the last part, I do not know the reasons which have actuated appellants who have decided not to prosecute their appeals.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say why these cases were taken out of the usual course?

I do not think they were taken out of the ordinary course. There was an appeal pending which the appellant did not choose to prosecute, and meanwhile the Viceroy granted a pardon to certain people.

Was it not rather that an amnesty was granted before the appeal came on?

Yes, I think so. I surmise that this is what happened: One of these appeals founded on the question of the legality of the Courts which were set up in India was dismissed by the Privy Council—not the question of what happened, but on the question of legality—and therefore I presume that the other appellants did not think it worth while to go on.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that two days before the new rules in regard to the Legislative Councils were before the House he told me that none of the persons who were convicted and sentenced would be eligible for them for five years, and yet, in spite of that, one of the convicted persons has been appointed a Minister?

I think the hon. Member will find that all the information I have given to the House is accurate.

But—

Further questions must be put down.

asked the Secretary of State for India whether he is aware that a Government newspaper, the "Myanma Trainereryo Thadinsa," is now issued by the Publicity Bureau, Burma; and whether he will consider the desirability of not allowing officials to establish newspapers at the public expense in order to propagate their views?

Yes, Sir. A Government newspaper called "Nyanma Taing-kyo Thadinsa" is now issued by the Publicity Bureau of the Government of Burma, the first number having appeared on the 9th February. It is most desirable that steps should be taken to disseminate accurate information and expose the false information which is unfortunately being so widely disseminated in India. There are obvious advantages in doing this through the public Press, but I do not propose to interfere.

What expense is attached to the publication of this paper?

I am afraid I cannot say without notice, but if a question be put down I will inquire.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the desirability of putting copies of the paper in the Library, for the information of hon. Members?

I think I can get copies if desired.

Was not evidence laid before the Joint Committee expressly urging that such steps as these should be taken by the Government?

I think everybody who knows anything about the present condition of India will agree it is absolutely essential that silly rumours and false information should be contradicted by authoritative information, and the Joint Committee's Report was most valuable in stimulating this action.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether the Admiralty recently issued an order allowing certain articles to be taken up duty free in ships of the Reserve Fleet; whether the Customs authorities have since detained all such articles in spite of all protests; whether in consequence some of the canteens of ships of the Reserve Fleet have entirely run out of such things as cigarettes; and when steps will be taken to remedy such a state of affairs?

I understand that my Noble and gallant Friend refers to ships of the Reserve Fleet in his question. The question of the supply of duty free articles to these vessels is at present under discussion with the Department concerned, and it is anticipated that a satisfactory settlement of the matter will be arrived at.

Is the hon. Baronet aware that there has been a very long delay now, and that certain stocks are rapidly deteriorating which the sailors concerned are quite ready to take up if they are allowed to do so?

I am not aware of that.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is aware that no 1914–15 stars, British war medals, or Victory medals have yet been issued to officers and men of the Royal Naval Division discharged or demobilised; that strong feeling exists among these officers and men at the delay in issuing these medals, especially as so large a number of this Division joined up voluntarily and took part in the operations of War in 1914; and whether, seeing that the War Office has issued the 1914–15 star to nearly all entitled, he will take steps to expedite the issue to these officers and men?

It is intended to issue the British War and the Victory Medals, together with the 1914–15 Stars, to naval officers and men entitled to these decorations who have been discharged or demobilised. Delay has occurred owing to difficulties in the manufacture of the Victory Medal, but it is hoped to commence distribution during the summer of this year.

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is now in a position to make a further statement with regard to the question of increased pay and marriage allowances for all officers of the Navy, including warrant officers and commissioned officers from warrant rank?

I regret that I have nothing to add to the reply given on the 9th instant to a similar question by the Noble and gallant Member for South Battersea (Viscount Curzon).

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty whether he is aware that some of the buildings, roads, and railway tracks at the Plymouth Dockyard are in need of repair; and, if so, whether it is possible to put them in a proper state of repair with the help of the men temporarily employed on short time in the dockyard, who will otherwise be thrown out of work in Plymouth, where there is already much unemployment?

We are aware that some of the buildings, etc., in Devonport Dockyard are in need of repair, but it is also the case that it is not vitally necessary that all the repairs should immediately be effected, and for financial reasons much of the work must be spread over several years.

Is the Admiralty aware that 2,000 men will be discharged on the 1st April, and that a great many of them will simply have to receive doles? I am told that the work in question is absolutely vital if the yard is going to be kept in good repair; and, if that be so, would it not be better policy to employ these men than that they should be turned on to doles?

I am sure that the Admiralty will thoroughly consider that matter.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty if his attention has been drawn to the difficulty under which the Brixham sailing smacks pursue their calling in the English Channel owing to the way in which the French steam trawlers circle round and round the smacks at a great pace when the trawls of the latter are down; and will he see that adequate protection is given to our men?

Information has been received from the officer in charge of the fishery protection vessels that on two occasions Brixham fishing smacks have had their gear fouled by French steam trawlers. Orders have been given that steps are to be taken to protect British sailing smacks as far as possible from similar occurrences. Two of His Majesty's vessels are employed in this area on fishery protection duties.

Is there any possibility of getting compensation for this damage by French trawlers?

Notice should be given of that question. I do not think it arises out of the present question.

asked the Minister of Labour whether his attention has been drawn to a complaint that unemployed persons applying at the Shepherds Bush exchange were informed that they could not receive their unemployment benefit until the local employment committee had investigated each case; whether it is the intention that the cases of men whose cards are fully stamped, and who are entitled in every respect to benefit, must first be submitted to the local committee; and, if so, whether, in view of the delay involved, he will reconsider this matter?

The cases referred to the local employment committee are those made under Section 3 of the Unemployment Insurance Act recently passed, which allowed benefit under certain conditions without payment of contributions. Every possible step is being, and will be, taken to secure that there shall be no avoidable delay in dealing with such cases. I understand that the Shepherds Bush committee have been meeting daily to deal with applications. If an applicant is entitled to benefit on account of contributions paid, his claim is not referred to the local employment committee, but he must, of course, satisfy all the statutory conditions.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he, is yet in a position to make a statement with reference to the communications with the Central Committee for Women's Employment and Training, to which he recently referred on the subject of training and employment schemes for women?

The Central Committee for Women's Training and Employment have offered to allocate the sum of £100,000 from the funds at their disposal to the training of unemployed women, and have agreed to carry out the work. The Government have agreed to contribute to the expenditure incurred by the Committee upon training in the proportion of £1 to every £2 spent by the Committee up to a maximum contribution of £50,000. It is the view of the Committee and of my advisers that the best opening for unemployed women at the present time is domestic service, and that a large propotion of the women who might be expected to take up this work are not able to do so without some form of training, both because they are over the normal age of entry into domestic service and because during the War they became accustomed to the very different conditions of factory life. The Central Committee intend to apply the funds at their disposal mainly in short courses of training for home crafts, of which the usefulness has already been demonstrated.

Is the right hon. Gentleman of opinion that the amount of money allocated will enable an early start to be made?

I hope that an early start will be made. The two grants together come to £150,000, and I have no doubt that the Committee which has come to our assistance will get to work as soon as possible.

Where does the Committee get its money from?

The money provided by the Central Committee for Women's Training and Employment comes out of a grant which they had a long time ago from the National Relief Fund. They have not spent it all, and have been so good as to place £100,000 at my disposal.

It is not in any way a charge on the taxpayer?

£50,000 is, as far as I am concerned.

Does the right hon. Gentleman think he is really justified in spending £50,000 of Exchequer money on training women for domestic service?

Yes. If I did not think so I should not have so advised the Treasury.

On whose advice does the right hon. Gentleman give that training? Is it on his own advice?

They may have been advised by us. We have seen the necessity of continuing the training. We have already trained War widows and others to the number of about 9,000, and there really is a field for continuing that to some extent. I have £50,000 from the Treasury, and the Central Committee for Women's Training and Employment have placed £100,000 more at my disposal. That will be used as I have stated.

What is the length of the course?

It is a short course.

Is this not the first and only attempt to alleviate unemployment solely and particularly among women?

No, Sir, I could not say that. Already 9,000 have been trained. But since the present depression, when we have been running into heavier weather continuously, this is the first attempt to give training to unemployed women.

asked the Minister of Labour whether a conference was held on Trade Boards at the Ministry of Labour on 20th January, 1919; whether the Minister circulated to the members of that conference a list of the trades to which he proposed to apply the Trade Board Acts; whether that list included distributive drapery; whether, on the 6th April, 1920, he wrote to the National Amalgamated Union of Shop Assistants, enclosing a draft definition of the trade; whether, on the 17th November, 1920, he circulated copies of separate draft definitions of the women's and children's outfitting distributive trade and of the men's and boys' outfitting distributive trade; if the inquiries into these trades are now completed; and at what date it is proposed to set up Trade Boards for these industries?

The facts are as stated by my hon. and gallant Friend. Inquiries into these trades have reached an advanced stage, and I hope that, at an early date, I shall be in a position to arrive at a decision as to the further action to be taken.

asked the Minister of Labour whether, in view of his statement on 16th March, a considerable amount of investigation has been carried out with regard to the proposed trade board in the catering trade, and that these investigations are not yet concluded, how it is proposed to conclude these investigations if the staff employed for this purpose have received notice of discharge?

A considerable amount of investigation into the catering trade has been carried out, and a sufficient staff is being retained for the purpose of proceeding with the further investigation required.

asked the Minister of Labour whether in August, 1919, he stated in a letter to the National Federation of Women Workers that he was engaged in collecting information with regard to the fancy comb, hair-pin, and hair-slide trade, with a view to considering the application of the Trade Boards Acts thereto; whether inquiries were in progress during the summer and autumn of 1920; whether he can state what stages these inquiries have now reached; and whether it is proposed to establish a trade board for this industry in the near future?

The facts are as stated by my hon. Friend. I am not yet, however, in a position to reach a decision as to applying the Trade Boards Acts to the manufacture of fancy articles such as those named in the question.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that not only the workers but also the employers in this trade are in favour of the establishment of a trade board?

That constantly happens. It may well be in this case.

What is the size of the hair-slide trade?

I must have notice of that question.

asked the Minister of Labour whether numerous questions of scope and definition have been raised by the stamped or pressed metal wares trade board; whether on the 11th January the employers intimated that they would consider no controversial business until after a consultation with representatives of the Ministry of Labour on questions of scope and definition; whether a representative of the Ministry attended the board on the same afternoon and summarised the progress which had been made by the Ministry of Labour towards an amendment of the definition of the trade for which the board had been established, after which the board resumed controversial business; whether it will be possible to complete the inquiries on this subject owing to the dismissal of the investigators; and, if not, what steps he proposes to take to satisfy the demands of this important trade board?

The facts areas stated by my hon. Friend. Further inquiries have been made in accordance with the arrangement made with the trade board, and a further discussion of the matter with the board will take place at an early date.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he has conducted investigations into the perfumery trade with a view of setting up a Trade Board; whether, as a result of these investigations, it has been shown that the wages for adult women are in some firms as low as 16s. per week, while in other firms doing comparable work wages of from 34s. to 45s. are paid; and what action he proposes to take to establish a Trade Board for the industry?

Preliminary investigations have been carried out into the manufacture of perfumery, and it has been found that wages such as those referred to by my hon. Friend are paid in certain cases. I am not yet, however, in a position to reach a decision as to the establishment of a Trade Board. As my hon. Friend is aware, many of the workers are covered by the Soap and Candle Joint Industrial Council.

asked the Minister of Labour if he will state the number of investigators employed in the Trade Board Department of the Ministry of Labour, and the number to whom notice of dismissal has been given, stating separately the number of women and of men?

The number of investigators employed in the Trade Board Department of the Ministry of Labour, including supervisory staff, is 68. Of this number, 39 are men and 29 women. Notice of dismissal has been given to the whole of this staff. I may add, however, that the notices of dismissal have been rescinded in the case of 28 of these employés, 17 men and 11 women.

asked the Prime Minister whether he is aware that one of the factors in the unsettlement of Central Europe is the delay in the ratification of the Hungarian Peace Treaty; and when His Majesty's Government propose to ratify it?

His Majesty's Government are fully alive to the importance of the early ratification of the Treaty of Peace with Hungary. I propose with the leave of the House to introduce the necessary Bill to-day, and I hope that it will be possible to proceed with the Second Reading without undue delay after the Easter Recess.

asked the Prime Minister whether he is aware that there is great delay in obtaining information and advice from the Clearing House Department for Austrian debts; and whether he can say to what this delay is due?

I have been asked to reply to this question. I am not aware of the delay mentioned in the question, and I think that there must be some misapprehension on the part of my hon. and gallant Friend. I shall be much obliged if he will furnish me with particulars as to the nature of the information and advice to which he refers. I will cause inquiries to be made on the subject and will communicate with him.

asked the Lord Privy Seal if the Reparation Committee is demanding the delivery from Austria of 6,000 milch cows and 5,000 heifers and calves; and whether, in view of the starving condition of hundreds of thousands of Austrian infants and children, he can assure the House that the delivery of these animals will be deferred?

I understand that this matter is now under consideration by the Reparation Commission, which is an Allied body appointed under the Peace Treaties, and is not under the control of His Majesty's Government. As was made clear to the House last week, His Majesty's Government is doing what it can, by agreeing to the postponement of Treaty and other claims against Austria, to contribute towards the restoration of the economic life of that country.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the great cattle market in Vienna has now been turned into a garage, because practically no cattle are coming in, and the British who are helping Austria from the point of view of the starving children are doing what they can to import cattle, but if any have to be exported it will mean absolute starvation to those in the country?

( by Private Notice ) asked the Prime Minister whether he is now in a position to state which of the Allies intend to apply the sanctions embodied in the Reparation Bill?

As the hon. Member is aware, the Allied Powers represented at the Conference in London agreed to obtain power from their respective Parliaments, requiring their nationals to pay a certain proportion of all payments due to Germany on German goods to their several Governments, such proportion to be retained on account of reparations. Of the Allied Powers not represented at the Conference Portugal, Siam and Roumania have stated their intention to take similar steps.

Which of the greater Powers have taken steps to adopt a similar scheme?

Has it not been the rôle of this country for a great many centuries to give a lead to other countries and not tamely to mark time?

asked the Minister of Labour whether the Government have been in negotiation with the building trades unions and other organisations in connection with the building trade since July, 1919, a period of over 20 months, to secure employment for 50,000 ex-service men who have been prevented from obtaining employment which is available for them in the building of urgently needed houses, by reason of trades union regulations; whether any of these men, and, if so, how many, are now in employment; whether his attention has been drawn to a recent statement by the Minister of Health to the effect that the London County Council housing scheme at Dagenham, near Ilford, has been held up for lack of labour; and whether he will take immediate steps to secure the employment of a substantial number of ex-service men in this work, so that the building operations which are held up from want of labour may be proceeded with and useful employment secured for men who are now obliged to subsist on out-of-work donations at the cost of the taxpayer?

asked the Minister of Labour whether he can yet state what is the position so far of the employment of ex-service men in the building trade; and whether he can state on what date the Government intend to give effect to some of their declarations on the subject?

As I informed the House last night, the National Federation of Building Trade Employers have consulted their constituents on a scheme put-before them by the Government, and they have now informed me that they have accepted the scheme. The scheme is designed to give an opportunity to young unemployed ex-service men who, owing to the War, have had no industrial training, to be trained as craftsmen in the building trade in the crafts which require augmentation. In addition, ex-service men now employed in the trade as builders' labourers will have an opportunity of coming in under the scheme and receiving training as craftsmen. The total number of men for whom the scheme provides is 50,000. The men will be taken on by the employers under a contract of service for two years. They will receive a percentage of the standard district rates of the craft, varying according to their increasing proficiency, together with a grant of 10s. per week for the first six months and 5s. per week for the second six months, these additional grants being refunded to the employer by the Government. The Government have already indicated that they will adopt the principles of the scheme in the case of building operations with which they are concerned. The National Federation of Building Trade Employers have accepted general responsibility for the supervision of the scheme, and are enlisting the active support of their District Associations who will work in conjunction with the Employment Exchanges. Active steps are being taken to bring the scheme into operation immediately, and I hope that now that it is started the trade unions will cooperate in helping the ex-service men to obtain a career in a trade where there is ample opportunity and need for their services. I understand that the building trade employers have invited the trade unions to make any proposals towards this co-operation that they may desire. I will, if I may, circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT a fuller note explaining the main features of the scheme.

The following is the note promised:

Are we to understand that a substantial number of these men will be actually in employment before we meet again?

Active steps are being taken to bring the scheme into operation immediately.

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the advisability of drafting a few of these unemployed ex-service men into the employers' organisation known as the National Light Castings Association.

If the hon. Member will put an unstarred question on the Paper to-night, I will answer it with pleasure to-morrow, but I do not understand the point of the question.

The employers' organisation concerned will.

May we understand without reserve that the co-opera- tion of the trade union has at last reached a point when the right hon. Gentleman is going to see justice done to these ex-service men?

The Noble Lord knows we went to the trade unions long ago.

Cap in hand, on your knees to the Bolshies.

Nothing of the kind. We made certain proposals to them. In the end, on 3rd February, they declined our invitation. We then turned to the master builders. I am glad to say they showed every desire to cooperate. Now we are going on.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there are 4,000 bricklayers out of employment at present?

asked the Minister of Labour why Mr. John Collie, of 62, Cowcardens, Glasgow, an ex-service man, late of the Connaught Hangers, has been refused unemployment benefit by the officials at the Glasgow Labour Exchange; if Mr. Collie has been informed that he is ineligible for this grant; and whether inquiries into this, and other similar cases of men from the same regiment living in Glasgow, will be instituted?

I have had inquiries made, and find that Mr. John Collie applied at the Glasgow Employment Exchange recently for out-of-work donation or unemployment benefit. He produced his Army discharge papers, which showed that he had been discharged from the Army for misconduct. Persons so discharged are not entitled to out-of-work donation, neither are they entitled to a free credit of contributions, in respect of which unemployment benefit would be payable, in accordance with Section 41 of the Unemployment Insurance Act, 1920. The only other case of this kind which can be traced at Glasgow is that of a man who attended with Mr. Collie, and who had been discharged from the Connaught Rangers under similar circumstances.

Is it considered just that a man who has been punished already by the Army authorities should be deprived of his benefit and possibly left to starve? Was that the intention of Section 41 of the Act, to punish a man twice in this way?

The intention of the Section was that the War Office, the Admiralty and the Air Department would pay while a man was serving all contributions on his behalf so that when he left the service he would be in full credit and entitled to benefit at once. But Section 41 bars from that privilege a deserter or a man who has been discharged or dismissed in consequence of having been convicted on any proceedings under the Naval Discipline Act or the Army (Annual) Act. These two men fell into that category.

In view of the fact that these men were punished in India, where I think it is fair to suppose that the working of the Insurance Act and the punishment implied might not have been known, will the right hon. Gentleman have the matter reconsidered?

I am afraid I cannot go outside the Act.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the fact that there are several ex-service men being detained in Claybury Asylum; that one of these men is a Mr. H. W. F. Ilines, who joined the Army in August, 1914, was promoted to the rank of acting-corporal in the 1st Battalion of 17th London Regiment, 47th London Division, and was invalided with shell-shock, his character on discharge being marked steady and well-conducted; and that his state of health does not appear to warrant his being detained in any lunatic asylum whatsoever; will he ascertain exactly how many are being detained in lunatic asylums of this nature and arrange for them to be transferred to more suitable institutions; will he give instructions for Mr. Henry Ilines to be examined by an absolutely impartial medical board; and will he give instructions that for the future all visits of inspection to lunatic asylums by the representatives of the guardians and/or Lunacy Commissioners are made without any prior notice whatsoever being given to the asylums?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. As regards the particular case mentioned Mr. Ilines was interviewed by a Medical Commissioner of the Board of Control and a Medical Officer of the Ministry of Pensions. It has been decided by the Ministry of Pensions, after the fullest consideration, that he has not at present sufficiently recovered for removal to a neurological hospital though his progress will be watched and the necessary arrangements made should his condition justify it. In the circumstances I see no ground for any further action. As regards the latter part of the question, all visits by Commissioners of the Board of Control are made without previous notice to the institution. There are about 4,673 ex-service patients in asylums in England and Wales, and their mental condition is constantly under review.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that on the 1st December, in reply to a similar question, he informed the House that so far as he could find out there was no definite information as to any ex-service men suffering from shell-shock being kept in pauper lunatic asylums?

I believe that statement was correct, but shell-shock does not include all forms of mental disability.

Is it not a fact that this man has been in that asylum considerably longer than the time referred to, and that he was originally sent there as suffering from shell-shock?

Yes, but I had not the information asked for as to the number of cases suffering from shell-shock at that time.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in addition to the salary and allowance of 200,000 gold francs paid annually to Sir Eric Drummond, the Secretary-General of the League of Nations, this gentleman has yet been provided with a house in Geneva; if so, at what cost; whether, in addition to salary and allowances, he receives travelling expenses; and whether any portion of the sum paid to him is free of tax?

It has been necessary to make inquiries of the Secretariat of the League, and perhaps, therefore, the hon. and gallant Member will repeat his question after Easter, when I hope to be able to furnish the desired information.

I will put the question down for 7th April.

asked the Minister of Labour what was the total number of cases heard by the Committee on Production in the year 1917–18; how many members formed the Committee; what was their total remuneration for that year; and if he will give similar particulars with regard to the Industrial Court for the year 1920–21?

The answer to the first part of the question is 1,146 for the financial year 1917–18. In reply to the second part, until May, 1917, the Committee consisted of five members. It was then found necessary to re-constitute it, and ten additional members were added during the year, while three of the original members ceased to act on the Committee. The remuneration, apart from expenses, was £3,670. In regard to the last part of the question, the number of awards was 409 during the period from April, 1920, to the present time. There are five salaried members and eight additional members who are called upon as occasion demands, and are paid on a basis of fees for each hearing. The total remuneration for the financial year 1920–21 was £10,623. It should be borne in mind that some of the members of the Committee on Production received no remuneration for their Work on the Committee.

Will the right hon. Gentleman recognise the fact that the Committee on Production had 1,146 cases and the Industrial Court 409, although the Industrial Court cost three times as much as the Committee on Production? Will he reconsider this matter and see whether it is advisable to revert to the old system which was in operation in 1917?

The hon. and gallant Gentleman has rehearsed the figures I gave him, but I shall be very glad to discuss the matter with him so that if he wished to put any further questions arising out of the comparison he has now made, he will be in a position to do so.

Will the right hon. Gentleman again study this and see what an enormous amount of money the Industrial Court has cost, and see whether it is advisable to alter the system?

I will look into it, but I can assure my hon. Friend that the work of the Industrial Courts is worth to this country many times the cost of those Courts.

Are we to understand that the Committee on Production did not give satisfaction in the way they carried out their duties? I must press my right hon. Friend on that point.

Is it not a fact that the Committee on Production had practically compulsory powers during the War, whilst the Industrial Courts are purely voluntary?

That is one of the considerations which if I had the opportunity of discussing the matter with my hon. and gallant Friend I should point out. The Committee on Production was acting under war conditions, and the Industrial Courts under peace conditions. Those circumstances are not unreflected in the results.

asked the Minister of Health if he will state what powers are possessed by the Ministry of Health to control the conditions and sanitary arrangements of caravans, especially when these have ceased to be really mobile and have settled in some field or vacant piece of land, joined shelters to the vans, and, without control or method, established a kind of encampment of vehicles, often a menace to the health of a district?

The Ministry of Health have themselves no direct power in this matter, but the local authority can take action under the Nuisances Provisions of the Public Health Act where a tent, van, shed or similar structure is in such a state as to be a nuisance or injurious to health or is so overcrowded as to be injurious to the health of the inmates. The local authority can also make bye-laws under Section 9 of the Housing of the Working Classes Act, 1885, for promoting cleanliness in and the habitable condition of such structures and for the prevention of nuisances in connection with them.

Has the right hon. Gentleman received any complaints, and, if so, what action has he taken?

I have no knowledge of any complaints at the present time, but I am looking into it.

asked the Minister of Health whether he can give any information as to the cost of building the houses under the Walsall county borough by direct labour as compared with the contractors' prices given for the same?

So far as can be ascertained from an examination of accounts at the present stage the cost of the houses completed under the contract is £945 per house, whereas the cost of the houses completed by direct labour is £893.

Can the right hon. Gentleman give encouragement to local authorities where they have decided to build houses by direct labour?

We must consider each case on its merits.

Has anything been put down for establishment charges of the local authority?

I believe these figures include the total cost.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that many houses suitable for families are now occupied by childless couples and unmarried persons who would gladly occupy smaller premises if such were available; and whether he will consider the advisability of extending the limits within which the building subsidy has hitherto been payable so as to include bungalows containing two bedrooms, with a total area of not less than 450 square feet, the subsidy being proportionately reduced?

The suggestion made by my hon. Friend is an attractive one, though I am afraid that in practice it may be difficult to ensure that such houses are only used in the manner intended, and do not become overcrowded. I will, however, give the suggestion my careful consideration.

Is there any more difficulty in saying that houses of the kind mentioned in the question are not overcrowded than there is in the case of other houses; and is it more wicked to put five people in a house intended for three than to put 10 people in a house intended for five?

I do not consider that there is any difference in the two cases.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that copies of the Housing Memoranda issued by the Ministry of Health cannot be obtained from His Majesty's Stationery Office; and whether, in view of the importance of such memoranda to members of housing committees and the public generally, he will arrange that these documents should be on sale at the Stationery Office?

Those General Housing Memoranda which are considered to be of interest to the general public are invariably placed on sale at the Stationery Office; copies of any General Housing Memoranda hitherto issued which are not on sale may be obtained on application to the Ministry of Health.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is yet in a position to give any comparable figures as to rates of bricklaying on guild schemes and those under private contractors?

It is very difficult to be sure that the figures for output of bricks reported from different schemes are strictly comparable. In some statements where high figures are given the number has been taken on foundation work or straightforward walling, while in other cases where lower figures are given the average for the whole house has been taken. Reports have been received showing variations in the output on guild schemes from 430 to 900 bricks a day and on builders' schemes figures varying between 450 and 850 have been recorded. With a view to a closer comparison, I am having special inquiries made into a number of typical schemes being carried out by different methods, and I shall be glad to give the House full information when I obtain it.

asked the Minister of Health whether, on the 18th March, a man named John Davis, of Bilston, was prosecuted before the stipendiary under Section 6 of the Housing (Additional Powers) Act, 1919, for in part demolishing a dwelling house fit for human habitation by working a gin pit close to the surface in proximity to a number of dwelling houses; whether the stipendiary held that the Section did not apply to houses demolished through mining operations; whether, owing to the operations of this same man since the year 1919, 91 houses have been damaged and 37 houses completely demolished in Bilston, with the result that 44 families, comprising 182 persons, have been dehoused; whether accommodation has had to be provided for these persons by the urban district council; and whether he will consider taking steps to prevent the continuance of similar operations in future?

My attention has not previously been drawn to the prosecution referred to, but I am making inquiries in the matter.

asked the Minister of Health whether, under the Old Age Pensions Acts, a person who has been maintained by his family is deprived of the whole or part of his pension because of the value of such maintenance having been calculated by the pension officer as part of the claimant's income?

The enjoyment of free maintenance from relatives does not prevent the recipient from obtaining an old age pension unless the maintenance (with the other means, if any) is of such value as to exceed the statutory limit for pension.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that this is likely to dry up all the good will that relatives may have towards old age pensioners when they know that anything they do is not going to assist the old age pensioners at all? Is he not also aware that in that case 10s. is quite insufficient to keep anybody at the present prices?

That matter was discussed when the Old Age Pension Bill was before the House two years ago, and the House decided against that view.

asked the Minister of Health if he has been approached with a view to introducing a Bill to allow metropolitan borough councils to increase the charges for swimming and other public baths; and if, in view of the importance of facilities for bathing for the young, he will refuse to forward any such legislation?

I have received representations to the effect mentioned in the question, but I have no present intention of introducing any such legislation.

asked the Minister of Health whether he has at any time sanctioned the provision of public money, either out of the national Exchequer or out of local revenues, for the purposes of the National Council for Combating Venereal Disease, either for the purpose of advertisement or for any other purpose; and if so, whether he will specify what amount of money has been so provided in each of the financial years affected and on what purposes the money has been spent?

The reply to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. In accordance with the recommendation of the Royal Commission on Venereal Diseases the National Council for Combating Venereal Diseases has been recog- nised by the Government since 1916 as the authoritative body for the purpose of spreading knowledge and giving advice in regard to the question of venereal diseases in its varied aspects. During the years ended the 31st March, 1919, and 31st March, 1920, grants were made to the National Council from the Exchequer amounting to £13,000 and £15,600 respectively, and the grant up to date during the current financial year amounts to £13,750. These grants have been paid in respect of expenditure incurred by the National Council in connection with a campaign of publicity and education by means of lectures, meetings, exhibitions and Press advertisements, and by pamphlets, posters and other literature. The grants for the current financial year and for 1919–20 included a proportionate sum for administrative expenditure. No grants are made direct by local authorities to the National Council, but some of these authorities have made contributions to local branches of the Council in aid of the propaganda and educational measures undertaken by those branches.

In view of the recent recommendations of the Birth Rate Commission, will the right hon. Gentleman see that steps are taken to persuade the two societies engaged in the campaign against venereal disease to co-operate instead of pulling in different directions?