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Written Answers

Volume 147: debated on Thursday 20 October 1921

Written Answers to Questions

Thursday, October 20, 1921

Questions

Relief Work (National Savings Certificates)

asked the Minister of Health the limit of individual subscriptions to National Savings Certifi- cates in the case of any local authority to be used for the purpose of providing work for the unemployed, in accordance with the special circular recently issued by his Department to borough, urban, and rural councils; and whether the Government would extend the limit of individual subscriptions to National Savings Certificates as to permit each local authority and committee to accept subscriptions from the same individual without regard to his having subscribed to the full amount of the limit elsewhere?

The number of certificates which can be held by any individual subscriber is limited to 500. As my hon. Friend was informed yesterday by the Financial Secretary, it is not proposed to alter this limit.

Ex-Service Men

asked the Minister of Labour how many of the registered unemployed are ex-service men; how many non-service men are employed in a temporary capacity in Government Departments; and how many ex-service men have been discharged from such Departments since the 1st June last?

I understand that on the 7th October it was estimated that the number of ex-service men registered at Employment Exchanges as unemployed was about 390,000. As regards the remaining parts of the question, I would refer the hon. Member to my reply to the hon. Member for East Cardiff (Sir W. Seager).

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that Poor Law authorities are deducting from ex-service men the amount of their disability pension when paying them unemployment relief; and, seeing that disability pensions to ex-service men were granted to assist them because of the abnormal conditions caused by their disabilities, will he cancel the order given by his Department for the deduction of the amount of disability pension in such cases and give orders to have such deductions refunded?

No order has been given by my Department for the deduction of the amount of disability pensions in calculating the amount of relief.

Peterhead Harbour Works

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether his attention has been called to a statement that the ordinary annual expenditure upon works at the National Harbour of Refuge, at Peterhead, is about to be stopped by the Treasury; and whether, having regard to the utility and national importance of these works and the large amount of unemployment and consequent distress which their discontinuance would entail, he will consider the advisability of continuing the grant and of increasing its amount in order to provide useful work of permanent value for those at present engaged thereon as well as for some of the already unemployed in that district?

The question of reducing the expenditure on these harbour works is being considered in connection with the general review now being made of all Government expenditure. The considerations urged by the hon. Member will be taken fully into account before any decision is arrived at.

Insurance by Industries

asked the Minister of Labour whether his Department is studying during the present period of depression the suggested policy of unemployment insurance by trades; and whether, in that case, he will submit a Report to Parliament on the value to be attached to such policy?

As my hon. Friend is probably aware, schemes of unemployment insurance by industries, as provided for by the Unemployment Insurance Act, 1920, have so far come into operation only to a very limited extent. In these circumstances the value to be attached to such schemes must for the present be in the main a matter of opinion, and could hardly form the subject of a special Report.

Homecraft Centre, Edmonton

asked the Minister of Labour if he has received any representations with regard to establishing a training centre for unemployed women and girls in the district of Edmonton; and, if so, if any action has been taken in the matter?

I understand that the Edmonton Unemployed Committee have been in touch with the Central Committee on Women's Training and Employment, and that negotiations are at present proceeding with a view to setting up a Homecraft Centre for Unemployed Women in the locality as soon as the difficulty of finding suitable premises has been overcome.

Government Policy

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that Mr. Phillips, of his Department, speaking at Buffalo a short time ago, declared that the actual provision of work during periods of depression has not in the past been a success; that there was no reason to suppose that it could in general be a success in future; that, speaking generally, the provision of work was not regarded as practicable as a remedy for unemployment; and that the only alternative seemed to be something in the nature of unemployment benefit; and whether this view represents the present policy of his Ministry?

Mr. Phillips made the point that with the best good-will in the world, it is not possible to make work of a productive character, outside the ordinary industrial activities of the country, of such a character and in such volume as shall meet the needs of the great mass of the persons unemployed. That is manifest. And therefore the first and main objective of the Government, as the Prime Minister insisted yesterday, is to endeavour so to stimulate British trade that the workpeople may be again enabled to follow their accustomed avocation.

Cornish Mining Industry

asked the Minister of Labour (1) if any scheme has been formulated for the employment of the Cornish miners who are destitute through the closing down of the mines;

(2) whether, seeing that the suspension of the Cornish tin mines, involving great poverty and distress, was mainly due to the controlled high price of coal, which increased the cost of all materials and of raising ore and pumping water, while the working capital was exhausted in meeting expenses, that these mines had to sell tin at a fixed low price because the Government was buying cheap copper from and selling cheap tin to America, and that in meeting Government requirements during the War the Cornish mines could neither devote men nor money to exploratory work and so suffered from three special handicaps and losses, he is prepared to advocate a special grant for Cornish mines and miners?

I have been asked to reply. I am aware of the present deplorable condition of the Cornish mining industry, though I cannot accept my hon. and gallant Friend's version of its cause, and it is receiving careful attention in connection with the Government's general proposals for the relief of unemployment. I cannot say more than this at present.

Road Improvement Scheme, Chesterfield

asked the Minister of Health whether he has received an application from the Chesterfield Council for a grant in respect of certain road schemes which, if put into operation, will absorb many of the unemployed in the town; and whether, in view of the necessity for providing useful work of this character, sanction will be given without delay?

I have been asked to reply to this question. Applications have been submitted by the Chesterfield Urban District Council in respect of certain road improvements proposed to be effected in their area. These applications are now under consideration, and I hope that it will be possible very shortly to give a decision.

Harbour of Refuge, St. Ives

asked the Minister of Transport if he can hold out any hope to the distressed Cornish miners that the question of a harbour of refuge for the Bristol Channel at St. Ives will be revived, and that employment during the winter, making concrete blocks from mine refuse, may be proceeded with at once, giving immediate employment to some hundreds of miners?

I have been requested by my right hon. Friend to answer this question. I regret that I can hold out no such hope. I am satisfied that the need for a harbour of refuge at St. Ives is not such as would warrant the expenditure involved by the proposed scheme, the cost of which I understand to be estimated at something more than £2,000,000.

Boards of Guardians (Abnormal Expenditure)

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that the rates already levied for the current year in the county borough of Middlesbrough amount to 20s. in the £ and that if the guardians precept upon the overseers for the full amount they require for the coming half-year the rates will reach approximately 30s. in the £; and what special measures he proposes to take to assist this and similar industrial districts where the burden on the rates directly caused by unemployment is much heavier than in other non-industrial areas?

The Prime Minister has already announced the general measures proposed by the Government for dealing with unemployment. With regard to the requirements of the guardians, I would suggest that they might consult my Department as to the raising of a loan to meet current abnormal expenditure.

Poor Law Relief

asked the Minister of Health the names of the 20 boards of guardians which give the largest allowances in relief; and whether he will, in each case, give the amount?

I will send the hon. Member a statement containing the information which he desires, so far as it can be given.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that during the War a large number of houses were erected in Stoke Heath for the housing of Coventry workers; that these people work in Coventry and live under the same economic conditions as those who live in the city; that Stoke Heath is under the Foleshill Rural District Council, which body is providing a scale of relief to unemployed persons and their families much lower than that provided by the Coventry Board of Guardians; and whether he will make representations to the rural district council that, inasmuch as the unemployed persons concerned are, generally speaking, in precisely the same circumstances as those living in Coventry, the scale of relief allowed should approximate to that prevailing in the city?

I do not think that this is a case in which I should interfere with the discretion of the local board of guardians.

Children's Health

asked the Minister of Health if his latest reports show any increase of sickness, especially among children, due to under-feeding or semi-starvation resulting from short time and unemployment?

I cannot say from the information at my disposal that there has been an increase of sickness among children as a result of short time and unemployment.

Local Rates (Land Values)

asked the Minister of Health whether he has considered the advisability of assisting the unemployed by putting local rates on land value, whether used or not, and taking the rates off houses, factories, and working pits?

I think that the hon. and gallant Member's suggestion is too controversial to enable it to be usefully discussed as a remedy for unemployment at the present moment.

National Health Insurance

asked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the fact that large numbers of unemployed persons will be thrown out of the National Health Insurance benefit in consequence of arrears of contributions due to unemployment, he will take steps to exempt unemployed persons from National Health Insurance contributions during the present emergency?

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that large numbers of unemployed find that, although when in work they were compelled by law to insure themselves against sickness, now that they have been out of work for 12 months they have lost the right to all sick pay even though they may have contributed in full since the Insurance Act was passed nine years ago, owe no arrears for periods of unemployment, and have never received any benefits; whether it is the intention of the Government to set matters right by passing a one-clause Act restoring to workers the right to remain insured against sickness during unemployment on having made proper payment for that purpose; and if all the approved societies have entered a most emphatic protest against such men being deprived of their sick pay under the Health Insurance Act?

I am aware that the provisions of the National Health Insurance Acts relating to cessation of insurance on ceasing employment cause some hardship in special cases in the present abnormal conditions of prolonged unemployment, and the question of taking steps to meet this situation is at present under consideration.

Wingrove Hospital, Newcastle-Upon-Tyne (Relief Work)

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that the Newcastle-upon-Tyne Board of Guardians having received his consent to construct a roadway to their Wingrove Hospital and to employ on the work as much unskilled labour as possible from able-bodied unemployed men in receipt of assistance from the guardians made application through the local authority to the Unemployment Grants Committee for a grant towards the expenditure incurred by them upon the labour directly employed, and that the Unemployment Grants Committee have declined to make a grant merely on the grounds that the men were not engaged through the local Employment Exchange, notwithstanding that the guardians' action was intended to save the payment both of unemployment benefit and Poor Law relief, all such labour employed being already registered at the Employment Exchange; and, if so, what action he proposes to take in the matter in view of the distressing prevalence of unemployment in Newcastle-upon-Tyne?

This matter was dealt with by the Unemployment Grants Committee, and I understand that they refused a grant because the guardians failed to comply with the condition requiring preference to be given to unemployed ex-service men, but I am in communication with the Committee in the matter.

Benefit (Holiday Periods)

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that shop assistants and many other workers are paid for bank holidays and statutory public holidays; and whether, in the event of those employés being out of employment and claiming unemployment benefit, he will arrange that they will be paid unemployment benefit in accordance with the custom and practice of their occupation?

In the case of persons wholly unemployed, holiday periods are counted as unemployment and benefit is payable subject to satisfaction of the waiting week and other conditions. In cases of suspension or short-time working, the Umpire has decided that in general a customary holiday does not count as unemployment; where, however, a person is off work for a period comprising 12 or more consecutive working days, exclusive of holidays, benefit may be paid for the whole period including the holidays, subject to the deduction of the waiting period, if necessary. The question whether a bank holiday or statutory public holiday is a customary holiday in any particular case must depend on the facts of that case.

Boot and Shoe Trade (Import Restrictions, South Africa)

asked the President of the Board of Trade if the importation of boots and shoes into South Africa from this country is being prohibited by the South African Government; whether this matter was discussed at the recent Imperial Conference; if so, what, if any, was the decision reached upon the matter; whether this action has intensified the problem of unemployment in this industry at home; and will he take steps to secure consideration being given to this matter with a view to the removal of the embargo?

The prohibition to which the hon. Member refers is qualified by the grant of licences in respect of boots of classes not ordinarily made in the Union of South Africa. For boots which are ordinarily so made, of which schedules have been issued by the Union Government and published in the "Board of Trade Journal," licences are, it is true, only granted exceptionally, but I do not understand that the control thus established has greatly affected the volume of trade which could otherwise take place. I shall, however, be ready to consider any representations which the hon. Member may be in a position to send me, and to see what can be done. The matter was not discussed at the recent Imperial Conference.

Channel Tunnel

asked the Prime Minister whether he is prepared to authorise the commencement of the work on the Channel Tunnel, which would provide employment for many thousands of unskilled labourers who are at present out of work?

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which I have given to-day in answer to a question by my Noble Friend, the Member for South Battersea (Viscount Curzon).

Duty Collected

asked the President of the Board of Trade the amount of the duty collected under Part I and Part II, respectively, of the Safeguarding of Industries Act?

The amount of duty collected from the 1st to the 18th October, inclusive, under Part I of the Safeguarding of Industries Act is £7,009. No Order has been made under Part II of the Act, and therefore no duty has become chargeable.

Imports from France

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether any duties have been levied under the Safeguarding of Industries Act upon goods imported from France?

Customs Arrangements

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether he is aware of the growing congestion at Folkestone, Hull, and other ports due to the collection of duties under the Safeguarding of Industries Bill and the German Reparation Act, which despite the overtime which the Customs officials are working and the increase of staff is insufficient to cope with the traffic; and what action he proposes to take with a view to simplifying the procedure so as to effect a more speedy clearance and thus avoid the delays and heavy expenses for rent?

I am informed that the Customs staff at the various ports is dealing with the work arising out of the Acts mentioned as it reaches them and any delay arising is not attributable to the Customs arrangements. In order to facilitate clearance in cases where the necessary evidence of value is not forthcoming, the Customs are prepared, as a temporary measure, to allow delivery on an adequate deposit being made to cover the estimated liability.

Silk Industry

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether his attention has been called to the unemployment in the silk trade; whether he is aware that quantities of manufactured silk goods are being imported from European countries where the depreciated exchanges enable the foreign manufacturers to undercut British manufacturers and British workmen; and whether, under these circumstances, he will lose no time to put in force the provisions of the Safeguarding of Industries Act to protect the British working man?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. In regard to the second and third parts, I would remind my hon. Friend that no steps can be taken to apply Part II of the Safeguarding of Industries Act to goods of any class or description except on the initiative of the industry concerned, which has to make specific complaint to the Board of Trade. No such complaint under Part II of the Act has yet been received from the silk industry.

Scheduled Commodities

asked the President of the Board of Trade what is the total number of articles liable to import duties under the Safeguarding of Industries Act; and how many, of these have never been, or are not now, manufactured in this country?

It is not possible to give the precise number of commodities comprised within the general headings of the Schedule to the Safeguarding of Industries Act, or the further informa- tion desired without prolonged and minute investigation, as I think the hon. Member will realise on considering the general headings given in the Schedule. One heading may cover a great variety of articles, which are distinguishable and have separate names, although they are of the same general class. For instance, there are very many distinguishable kinds of scientific instruments, while the varieties of chemicals covered by Part I of the Act are even more numerous.

Dolls' Eyes

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that, under the Schedules attached to the Safeguarding of Industries Act, blown glass is liable to an import duty of 33⅓ per cent., and that dolls' heads are coming into this country containing eyes which are of blown glass; whether the tax in this case is only imposed on the dutiable part, that is, the eyes; what system of inspection he has set up in order to collect the tax on dutiable portion of dolls' heads which are now being imported into this country; and what revenue has resulted as a result of the taxation of dolls' eyes?

The answer to the first three parts of the question is in the affirmative. As regards the fourth part of the question, I understand that the system is that ordinarily adopted by His Majesty's Customs in the collection of duties. Separate figures of the revenue resulting from the duty in this particular case are not available.

Coal Imports

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether the Government now has any contracts with foreign Governments, or companies, or persons in foreign countries for the import to this Country of coal mined outside the United Kingdom; and, if so, what amount of coal is yet to be received under these contracts?

I am not aware of the existence of any contracts of the kind to which my hon. Friend refers.

asked the Secretary of Mines the quantity of Belgian coal imported into Great Britain during the miners' stoppage, and the price paid by the British buyers to exporters of Belgian coal during that period?

The quantity of coal purchased from Belgium on Government account during the coal stoppage was 364,521 tons, and the average f.o.b. price was 145 francs. Similar information in respect of coal imported on private account is not available.

Arms and Ammunition (Exports)

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he is aware that the Trade Returns of the United Kingdom indicate that for the year 1920 the following articles were exported from this country through the ordinary medium of export trade, namely: over 80,000 military rifles and carbines, 28,000 swords, bayonets, and other non-firearms, 14,000 automatic machine and quick-firing guns, and 106,000,000 of military loaded cartridges, together with other extensive military equipment; and whether he can state the destination of the articles specified?

The exports during 1920 of arms and ammunition, the produce or manufacture of the United Kingdom, included the following:

Military rifles and carbines, 81,253, of which 56,580 were consigned to France, 8,503 to Siam, and 15,922 to countries within the British Empire.

Swords, cutlasses, bayonets, and arms of other sorts, not firearms, 16,486, of which 6,581 were consigned to France, 1,804 to Siam, and 7,977 to countries within the British Empire.

Automatic, machine, and quick-firing guns, 330, of which 255 were consigned to countries within the British Empire.

Small arms (military) ammunition— loaded cartridges, 106,077,900, of which 38,065,000 were consigned to France, 46,241,100 to Roumania, and 17,057,900 to countries within the British Empire.

These figures are subject to revision so far as concerns the details for separate countries, the final verification of these details being not yet quite complete.

Food Prices

asked the President of the Board of Trade (1) whether he is aware that the values of fat cattle and sheep have fallen continually during the past two months; that prices paid to farmers for beef and mutton vary according to quality between 8d. and 1s. per lb.; that the prices charged to consumers, even in small provincial towns and villages, where the animals go direct from the farmers to the butchers and no marketing expenses are incurred, are approximately cent. per cent. on cost; that a bitter feeling is arising amongst farm labourers, who know they are not getting the reductions in prices for meat and flour corresponding to those which their employers have to accept; and whether, seeing that if they were given the benefit of the lower prices the reduction in wages which their employers have been compelled to make would have been neutralised, he will cause an inquiry to be made of the Butchers' and Meat Traders' Association to find out whether the outrageous charges can be justified;

(2) whether he is aware that the price paid to farmers for wheat delivered to the mills last October was 96s., but is now only 45s. per quarter, a drop equivalent to 53 per cent.; that during the War, when wheat was 45s. per quarter the price of the 4-pound loaf was 8d. and 9d., and is now 11d.; that millers who are buying wheat at 45s. per quarter, or 1s. 3d. per stone, sell flour at 2s. 9d. and 3s. per stone, fine offals at slightly more than 1s. 6d. per stone, and coarse offals at 1s. 1½d. per stone; whether from a quarter of wheat costing 45s. 27 stones of flour, 4 stones of coarse offals, and 4 stones of fine offals are made, and an allowance made of 1 stone for wastage, the amount realised by the millers is 87s. 6d.; and whether he will at once call the Millers' Association together to inquire whether it is possible to reduce the price of flour by 9d. per stone, and still leave a margin of 50 per cent, on cost to meet expenses and provide a reasonable profit for themselves?

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether his attention has been drawn to the great divergence between the wholesale and retail prices of agricultural produce, especially of meat; whether he is aware of the hardship involved, especially to the agricultural labourer, whose wages and chance of employment are decreased owing to the low wholesale prices while his cost of living is kept up by the high retail prices; and what steps the Government are taking in the matter?

I am aware that the prices of fat cattle have recently fallen more sharply than the wholesale prices of the majority of foodstuffs and to an extent considerably exceeding the concurrent fall in the cost of living. It may be expected that competition will bring about a reduction of retail prices to correspond with the fall in wholesale prices. The Government does not consider that it is desirable to re-establish the system of controlling prices in order to ensure that this adjustment shall be effected, but the position is being carefully watched.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether his attention has been called to the statement made at the Lincolnshire Farmers' Union to the effect that a farmer sent 7,200 cabbages to Covent Garden Market, and, after deducting the cost of transport, cartage, and commission, received 6d.; whether he will investigate a case of this nature in view of the high prices charged to the consumers; and whether steps can be taken to avoid results of this kind in future?

My attention has been drawn to the statement in question, but I have received no particulars with regard to this consignment, or as to the circumstances which attended the sale. I am aware that transport and marketing charges are at present very high in proportion to the prices realised by the growers, but I do not think that this instance can be taken as being in any general sense representative.

asked the Minister of Agriculture if he is aware that it is almost impossible for the United Kingdom to rear sheep and cattle in a sufficient quantity to support the wants of the people of this country; that since 1890 the growth of importations of beef, mutton, pork, and bacon has been to the extent of a cash value of well over £100,000,000 per annum; and that, if fat cattle and sheep were allowed to come into this country to be slaughtered at the port of landing and the Canadian store cattle given full access to our farm and grass lands, in less than six months the price of meat in this country would be reduced by a very considerable extent; and if he will take action in the matter?

I am aware that the meat requirements of the country cannot be met without importation from abroad and the figure given in the question as to the value of such imports is approximately correct. But a considerable part of such imports is in the form of dead meat which can be freely landed without restriction and, except from countries where disease is prevalent, there is nothing to prevent the importation of live cattle and sheep to be slaughtered at the ports. During the first nine months of this year 46,048 cattle and 10,140 sheep have been so imported from Canada and the United States. I may add that the Report of the Royal Commission lends no support to the hon. Member's suggestion that the removal of the embargo on the importation of store cattle from Canada would result in a reduction in the price of meat by a very considerable amount.

International Copyright Law

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he will consider the advisability of taking steps to secure a revision of the international copyright laws, with a view to removing the existing copyright regulations in America against books printed in this country?

The revised International Copyright Convention of 1908 was ratified by Great Britain in July, 1912. Since that date, a Protocol to the Convention (Treaty Series No. 11 of 1914) has been proposed by this country and agreed to by all the signatories of the Convention, but it is not yet fully ratified by all the parties thereto. In the opinion of His Majesty's Government, this Protocol will give each of the contracting countries full powers to restrict the grant of copyright to works of authors belonging to a State outside the copyright union which fails to protect in an adequate manner the works of authors belonging to the contracting country in question. When the Protocol is fully ratified, the matter raised by the question will receive further careful consideration by His Majesty's Government in consultation with the numerous and important British interests involved.

Income Tax

asked the President of the Board of Trade if he will furnish a return giving, for each of the last 10 years, a list of companies which have transferred their boards abroad, with statements of their issued capitals and of the amounts received from them by way of Income Tax in the year preceding the transfer?

There is no obligation upon a company registered in this country to furnish to the Registrar of Companies a return showing that the management of the company has been transferred abroad, and no information on this subject is available.

Russia (British Trade Mission)

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Overseas Trade Department whether the British Trade Mission at Moscow is preparing to return to this country; and what are the reasons for this step?

British Outstanding Claims

asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that, although the German authorities some months ago agreed to include in an admission list claims under Articles 296 and 297 of the Treaty of Versailles with respect to credit cash balances in German banks during the War belonging to British nationals resident in British territory, the British Clearing House has not yet received from the German authorities credits for the sums in question; whether he will ascertain from the German authorities the reason why, after having accepted the point of principle involved, in order to avoid proceedings before the mixed arbitral tribunal, the German authorities are not issuing the relative credits; and what steps the British Government proposes to take in order that British subjects may receive their property without further delay?

A considerable number of credits have been received from the German authorities in respect of bank balances claimed by British nationals both under Article 296 and Article 297 of the Treaty of Versailles, and the amounts have been paid to the claimants by the British Clearing Office. The clearing office is exercising continual pressure on the German authorities to expedite the settlement of outstanding claims, and it is also open to individual claimants to refer their claims to the Anglo-German Mixed Arbitral Tribunal for adjudication.

Motor Passenger Vehicles (Petrol Tanks)

asked the Minister of Transport whether he will reconsider the new bye-law which has been made by his Ministry compelling owners of motor omnibuses or chars-à-banc to have the petrol tank at the vehicle, seeing that all experts agree that there is no utility in this bye-law and that it causes grievous expenses to owners of motor vehicles?

No bye-law of any kind relating to petrol tanks on mechanically propelled road vehicles has been made by the Ministry of Transport, nor am I aware of any such bye-laws being in existence. If my hon. Friend has any information to the contrary I should be glad if he would communicate with me.

Horse Traffic, Scotland

asked the Home Secretary whether he has taken any steps in the matter of one driver being in charge of two horses and two carts in urban districts in Scotland?

I have been asked to answer this question. No representations have been made to me as to the desirability of taking action in regard to the matter referred to, but I shall be happy to consider any suggestions which my hon. and gallant Friend may desire to make.

Schoolmasters

asked the Parliamentary Secretary of the Admiralty whether, inasmuch as there is still a considerable shortage of qualified schoolmasters in the Fleet, and that the education of the men of the lower deck and the passing educationally of ordinary seamen for able seamen are still being adversely prejudiced thereby, he can now promise greater expedition in the promulgation of the new scheme of pay and promotion for schoolmasters, Royal Navy, which their Lordships have had under consideration, in view of the effect that such announcement should have in further modifying the shortage of really qualified schoolmasters in the senior service?

The Admiralty are aware of the adverse effects of the shortage of schoolmasters and have formulated proposals with the object of remedying the existing state of affairs. I can assure the hon. Member that no time will be lost in promulgating any new scheme of pay, etc., for which the necessary sanction may be obtained.

Cotton Bleaching Factory, Holton Heath

asked the Parliamentary Secretary of the Admiralty whether the proposal to erect a cotton bleaching factory at Holton Heath, Dorset, has been withdrawn for the current financial year; and will he, in any subsequent consideration of the scheme, be prepared to hear technical evidence before the work is again authorised?

The proposal has not been withdrawn, but certain technical considerations are still being carefully scrutinised, and until the Admiralty are absolutely satisfied, no further work will be proceeded with at Holton Heath. Technical knowledge and evidence are the bases of this proposal and the Admiralty have employed and are employing eminent chemists to advise them.

Coastguard, New Force (Provision Allowance)

asked the Parliamentary Secretary of the Admiralty whether he is aware that the victualling allowance of the coast-guard, old force, was increased by 8d. a day, dating from 31st July, 1920, to meet the extra cost of living; that the same privilege has not been granted to the coast-guard, new force; and that the discrimination is causing annoyance and vexation amongst the members of the new force; and can he see his way to equalise matters so as to put the food allowance on the same footing for both forces?

The provision allowance of the coast-guard, old force, was increased by 8d. a day with effect from the 23rd July, 1920, the date from which a corresponding concession was made to ratings of the Fleet. No corresponding concession was made to members of the coast-guard, new force, who are pensioners in receipt of their pensions and consolidated pay, but who do not receive provision allowance. In view of the generally favourable conditions of their service I regret that I can hold out no hope that any corresponding increase of pay will be granted.

Prisoners, Erzerum

asked the Secretary of State for War whether the Turkish Nationalists have released the British prisoners taken in 1919 at Erzerum; if so, when they may be expected in England; and whether Private Leadbetter, Machine Gun Corps, is among those released?

These prisoners, who include Private Leadbetter, have not yet been released, but negotiations are being conducted with a view to their early release.

Theft, Tidworth Barracks

asked the Secretay of State for War whether he can give the date on which 19 rifles belonging to the 9th Lancers were stolen from the Assaye Barracks, Tidworth, and the names of the soldiers or civilians against whom proceedings have been taken in connection with this offence; and whether any similar thefts of either arms or ammunition have been reported from other units of the Army in England, Scotland, or Wales since the alleged truce arranged between the forces of Sinn Fein and His Majesty's forces in Ireland?

These rifles were stolen on the night of the 28th/29th August. Proceedings were taken by the civil police against three soldiers implicated, and they were convicted of theft. Two of the men received six months' imprisonment and the third three months' imprisonment. As regards the last part of the question, three other cases of loss of rifles in Great Britain, involving nine rifles in all, have been reported to the War Office during the period in question.

Service Pension (T. a. Cornetti)

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will cause inquiries to be made as to the reasons why the service pension of T. A. Cornetti, late No. 84075, T./R.S.M., Royal Horse Artillery, of 8, Glen Helen, Colwick, Notts, who was discharged on 13th May, 1920, after 29 years and 64 days' service, has been stopped; whether Cornetti has received, completed, and returned three life certificates at the request of the Pension Issue Office within the last three months; and whether, in view of the hardship imposed by reason of the non-payment of the pension and of the fact that the man's applications for payment have been ignored, he will give directions for the payment of the pension with arrears?

My attention has already been called to this case. Arrears of pension were issued on 30th September, and arrangements for current payments have been made. The Pension Issue Office have written a letter of explanation to Mr. Cornetti. The delay is very much regretted.

Interim Awards

asked the Minister of Pensions whether local war pensions committees are authorised to make recoverable advances in cases where the last conditional award of pension has expired and the pensioner has not been called up for re-survey (interim award not issued); and where a pensioner's last conditional award expires and the man is medically boarded, but the board are unable to come to a decision (interim award not issued); and whether, in the event of the local war pensions committees not being authorised to make such advances, he will arrange for recoverable advances at the expiring rate to be made in such cases?

The existing instructions of the Ministry make prevision for continuance of pension by means of interim award when, as occasionally happens, it is not found practicable to make a normal award in good time before the expiration of a conditional award. I am not aware that this emergency procedure has proved defective, nor do I consider that any further safeguard by way of recoverable advances is called for, beyond that already provided in paragraph 14 (6), ( c ), and ( d ) of the Local War Pensions Committees' Handbook. If, however, my hon. Friend has in mind any case in which he considers hardship has occurred to which the default of the pensioner has not contributed, I shall be glad if he will let me have particulars.

Medical Referees (Appointments)

asked the Minister of Health whether he will undertake in future to give preference to all candidates applying for the post of medical referee who have served in the War, even if their absence from home in the service of the State naturally gives them a shorter record of home service in the district?

In making appointments to the post of medical referee, preference is given to men who have served in the War, other things being equal, but with due regard to the fact that many practitioners, who did not serve in the armed forces, had applied for such service and been kept at home by the decision of the competent authorities that their services were indispensable for the needs of the civil population.

Industrial Training Scheme

asked the Minister of Labour the extent in which progress is being made in the equipment of disabled ex-service men for skilled trades; and what are the chief hindrances to quicker and greater progress?

The number of ex-service men placed in training from the inception of the Industrial Training Scheme up to 11th October, 1921, was 74,694; of whom, on that date, 22,749 were still in training. There is a waiting list of over 30,000, many of whom are, however, not yet ready, being still under treatment. Our chief difficulty at present is the state of trade, which causes difficulty in finding improverships with private employers for men who have completed their course in a training centre, though I am endeavouring to meet this in every way possible.

Fiscal Commission

asked the Secretary of State for India whether any additional appointments representing the Home Government can be made on the Indian Fiscal Commission to secure ample consideration being given to all the trade interests involved; and whether it is proposed to take any evidence in the United Kingdom, in view of the great need that the decisions of the Commission shall promote the mutual benefit of the United Kingdom and India?

No, Sir. The Commission has been appointed by the Viceroy who, I think, has taken care to secure a representative Commission. It is for the Commission to decide its own procedure, but I do not think it will find it necessary to take evidence here.

asked the Secretary of State for India whether his attention has been called to a recent speech by the Viceroy of India at Simla stating that the Indian Fiscal Commission was appointed to consider the imposition of duties for purposes of protection as well as revenue; whether this represents the opinion of the Home Government; and will representation be made to extend the terms of reference to include the consideration of Free Trade between India and the United Kingdom?

The terms of reference to the Commission are "to examine, with reference to all the interests concerned, the tariff policy of the Government of India, including the question of the desirability of adopting the prin- ciple of Imperial preference, and to make recommendations." I have seen the speech by the Viceroy to which my hon. Friend refers. The terms of reference clearly include the consideration of the policy of Free Trade between India and the United Kingdom as well as of the policy of Protection.

Railway Administration

asked the Secretary of State for India whether, in view of the evidence furnished to the Committee on the administration and working of Indian railways of the bitter feeling aroused in millions of third-class passengers by overcrowding and other discomforts, and also in view of the evidence that Indian agriculture, trade, and industry are subjected to prolonged delay, serious financial loss, and in cited instances to entire exclusion from seasonable markets, through inadequacy of rolling stock and equipment, the Government of India intend to take early measures for remedying the most serious of the shortcomings testified to before the Committee, without waiting to come to a decision on the larger questions of railway policy and finance dealt with in the Report?

I have already suggested to the Government of India that action should be taken without delay on the lines indicated in my hon. Friend's question.

Provincial Governments (Purchase of Stores)

asked the Secretary of State for India whether his attention has been directed to a statement made by the Governor of Bombay to a deputation from the Indian Merchants' Chamber to the effect that the local governments had not been completely free in the matter of the purchase of stores on account of the stores rules, but that the rules had been altered on the recommendation of the Government of India and now only awaited the Secretary of State s sanction; whether this sanction had been given; and whether Sir George Lloyd's anticipation that in a week or two the local government would be completely free in this matter has been realised?

I have not seen the statement referred to. The Government of India have, I understand, consulted Provincial Governments regarding the revision of the rules for the purchase of stores. I have not yet received the final views of the Government of India.

Whitley Council

asked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether any decision has yet been arrived at with regard to the inclusion on the official side of the Whitley Council of a certain number of members who are not civil servants?

Ministry of Pensions

asked the Minister of Labour whether the temporary orderly staffs employed by the Ministry of Pensions are insured under the National Insurance Act, 1920; and,

Established.

Temporary.

Totals.

Total Staff.

Men.

Women.

Men.

Women.

Men.

Women.

Served.

Not served.

Served.

Not served.

Served.

Not served.

Staff at Headquarters and Regions.

146

149

214

8,017

161

*8,022

8,163

310

8,236

16,709

Staff of Hospitals and similar Institutions.

1

3,987

277

4,299

3,987

278

4,299

8,564

Totals

146

150

214

12,004

438

12,321

12,150

588

12,535

25,273

* Including 1,453 persons engaged on duties peculiarly suited to women, e.g ., typists and office-cleaners.., typists and office-cleaners.

Scottish Board of Agriculture

asked the Secretary for Scotland, in view of the urgent need for national economy, what reductions, if any, have taken place in the numbers of the staff of the Board of Agriculture since the commencement of the present financial year; and what sum is estimated to be saved during the current financial year by those reductions?

Since the 1st April, 1921, there has been a net reduction of 55 in the number of persons employed under the Board, including officers of Agricultural Committees and Wages Committees. The resultant saving in the current

if so, whether he will consider the advisability of an Amendment to the Act so that staffs employed by the Pensions Ministry on a temporary basis shall be able to participate in its operations?

These staffs are in general, I understand, excluded from unemployment insurance by virtue of paragraph ( b ) of Part II of the first schedule to the Unemployment Insurance Act, 1920, relating to employment in domestic service. I cannot undertake to propose an amendment of the Unemployment Insurance Acts for the purpose of including them.

asked the Minister of Pensions the total number of persons employed in the Department; the number of ex-service men; the number of women; and the number of men who have done no service in His Majesty's forces?

The total staff in the employment of the Ministry on the 1st October, 1921, was as follows:

financial year is estimated at approximately £6,700. I may add that I am personally examining the question whether further reduction of staff can, without impairing efficiency, be effected.

Forest of Dean (Barbed Wire)

asked the Minister of Agriculture if he is aware that in the Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire, the Crown lands have been enclosed by strong barbed wire, which is proving a source of danger to the passers-by, children and adults alike; that the wire is also a danger to sheep and other animals; that there are constant complaints; and that there have been repeated applications for the substitution of plain wire; and whether he is prepared to take any action in the matter?

Certain lands on the Forest of Dean, have been enclosed by the Crown by barbed wire. Instructions have already been given by the Commissioners of Woods for the substitution of plain wire and other fencing for barbed wire in cases where the Commissioners are satisfied that such substitution is desirable in the public interest or for the protection of stock.

Warble Fly

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he can now give any information regarding the findings of the committee to investigate the warble fly problem; and whether they have found any new preventative?

The investigations of the committee appointed to report on the warble fly are not yet completed, but I am advised that the committee are very hopeful that an effective preventive against attacks of this pest has been discovered. Experiments have recently been tried with a wash composed of tobacco powder mixed with lime, and very encouraging results have been obtained.

Canadian Cattle

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he can give the number of milch cows, yearlings, and two-year-old steers and calves in Canada in the years 1919, 1920, and 1921?

The number of cattle in Canada in June, 1919, as published by the Dominion Government, was as follows:—

Bulls

300,471

Milch cows

3,548,437

Calves

2,424,229

Steers

840,319

Other cattle

2,971,555

Total

10,085,011

The Dominion Government have published the following figures of the number in June, 1920:—

Milch cows

3,530,238

Other cattle

5,947,142

Total

9,477,380

Further details in regard to 1920 have not yet been published. Figures for 1921 are not yet available.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he can give the average cost of transporting a steer from the central provinces of Canada to the docks in Liverpool and Bristol in this country?

I have received information that the cost of consignment in the case of a cargo of Canadian cattle which recently arrived in this country was £15 to £17 per head. I am making further inquiries, the result of which I will communicate to my hon. Friend.

Rolleston Settlement

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether any portion of the Rolleston estate has been sold; and, if so, what area, and at what price?

823 acres 2 roods 14 poles, previously forming part of the Rolleston Settlement, have recently been sold, the price realised being £23,238.

Unfit Horses (Export)

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether the inspectors appointed to inspect horses about to be exported can order unfit animals to be destroyed and enforce such orders?

Yes, Sir. Section 1 of the Exportation of Horses Act, 1914, empowers the veterinary inspector to slaughter or cause to be slaughtered, whether the owner consents to such slaughter or not, any horse examined by him which he finds to be in such a physical condition that it is cruel to keep it alive or which is permanently incapable of being worked without suffering. The Act provides no appeal against the inspector's decision, which can be duly enforced.

Felling of Trees, Appleshaw

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether his attention has been called to the expressed intention of the chief landlord in the village of Appleshaw, Hants, to destroy the trees in the centre of the village public road; whether the board or the local governing authorities have been consulted upon the matter; and what action his Department proposes to take in the matter to preserve public rights?

I have been asked to answer this question. I have no information as to the matter referred to, and I am doubtful whether it will be possible for me to take any action, but if the hon. and gallant Member will send me further particulars I shall be happy to make inquiries.

Parliamentary and Municipal Franchise (Occupiers)

asked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the fact that by the repeal of Section 5 of the Parliamentary and Municipal Registration Act, 1878, an occupier may be disfranchised if, in addition to occupying separate unfurnished accommodation, that occupier has also a right to the joint use of an additional part of the same house, he will introduce a short Bill to provide that where an occupier is entitled to the sole and exclusive use of any part of a house, that part shall not be deemed to be occupied otherwise than separately by reason only that the occupier is entitled to the joint use of some other part?

My right hon. Friend has asked me to reply to this question. I have no information as to the difficulty which has arisen or how it is affected by the repeal of Section 5, but I would point out that there is an appeal against any decision of the registration officer, and until the point raised in the question is authoritatively determined by a Court of Law, the question of legislation can hardly arise.

Maternity and Child Welfare (Milk Grant)

asked the Minister of Health whether he has received any protests concerning his decision to reduce the Government financial aid to local authorities for the provision of milk to infants and mothers; and whether he can reconsider the matter so as to give once again half the cost in cases where the medical officer to the local authority issues a certificate of need or where some other suitable safeguard against unnecessary expenditure is provided?

asked the Minister of Health if he is aware that there is resentment on the part of the local authorities of the country towards the letter from his Department which calls upon them to keep separate accounts of the milk which is given free or below cost price to necessitous cases under maternity and infant welfare regulations and intimates that the State grant upon this part of the work is to be reduced from 50 per cent. to 5 per cent.; and whether, having regard to the good work which has been and is being done by the service, the reduction of the infantile death rate which has been effected, together with the hardship which will be imposed upon poor people, the adverse effect upon infant life, and the added burdens to the local authorities under the conditions of the circular, he will withdraw the circular referred to and restore the 50 per cent. grant for the whole of the infant welfare service?

asked the Minister of Health whether he has recently reduced the contribution payable by him to local authorities for the provision of milk to mothers and infants from 50 per cent. to 5 per cent. of the cost; whether this reduction coincides with the beginning of winter, when milk is dearest, and with widespread distress owing to unemployment; what economy he is effecting by this reduction; and whether it can be secured in a less disastrous way?

The very great increase in this service by local authorities has caused the estimate of the Government grant during the financial year already to be exceeded, and on strictly financial grounds severe reduction is entirely justified. But in view of the commitments of local authorities during this financial year and the distress existing from the extent of unemployment I have decided that the 50 per cent. grant for milk supplied free or at less than cost price under the conditions laid down in Circular 185 will be continued until the end of the financial year.

Census Reports (Employed Married Women)

asked the Minister of Health whether he can ascertain from the recent Census how many married women whose husbands are in employment are themselves also in employment?

The information to which the hon. Member refers could not be extracted without additional expense and would not in any case be available until the returns for all parts of the country have been dealt with, that is to say, in about a year and a half. It is not therefore proposed to include it in any volume of the Census Reports.

London Borough Councils (Employes)

asked the Minister of Health whether he has received any replies to the request for information which he addressed to the borough councils of Bethnal Green, Camberwell, Dept-ford, Hackney, Shoreditch, Southwark, Stepney, and Woolwich, as to the number of their employés at certain dates and the remuneration of the same during certain periods; and whether, if he has not yet received it, there are any steps by means of which he can obtain from those councils the information which has already been supplied by all the other metropolitan borough councils and by the Corporation of the City of London?

I understand that the borough councils named in the question are unwilling to supply the desired information in the particular form in which it is asked for. There is no compulsion on them to do so unless the information is required by Statute or by an Order of the House.

Metropolitan Water Board (Economies)

asked the Minister of Health whether the Metropolitan Water Board has been requested by him to effect economies in administration similar to those required in Government Departments; and whether he can make any statement as to the steps which are being taken to minimise a deficiency in their accounts?

I understand that many economies have been effected by the Metropolitan Water Board, and that the possibility of effecting still further economies is being considered. I am communicating with the Water Board, and will inform my hon. Friend of the measures which have been taken.

St. Pancras Board of Guardians

asked the Minister of Health whether the St. Pancras board of guardians has decided to exclude the public from its meetings, although there has been no disorder of any kind; and whether, in view of the generally admitted right of ratepayers to attend the meetings of the local elected authorities, he will approach the board of guardians on this matter?

This is a matter within the discretion of the guardians and I am not prepared to intervene.

National Health Insurance (Aged Workers)

asked the Minister of Health if he will consider the introduction of legislation for the purpose of continuing the benefits of national health insurance for persons who remain in employment after the age of 70?

Insured persons who remain in employment up to or after the age of 70 are already entitled to medical benefit for the rest of their lives. The extension of the right to sickness and disablement benefits to persons over the age of 70 would require an increase in the weekly contributions and would present serious administrative difficulties to approved societies in the application of the test of incapacity for work. In view of these considerations and of the provisions of the Old Age Pensions Acts legislation to the effect suggested by the hon. Member is not contemplated.

National Catholic Benefit and Thrift Society

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that various Liverpool branches of the National Catholic Benefit and Thrift Society were deprived of representation at the general council of the society in 1918; that new rules, alleged to be inimical to the rights of members of these branches, were passed at that meeting of the council; that the referee appointed by the Ministry of Health held that the meeting was invalid and that the aggrieved branches had been wrongfully deprived of representation; and that, not with standing this, the Ministry approved of the rules passed at a meeting declared on inquiry to be invalid; and whether he will order a new inquiry with a view of removing the grievance of the branches who have had rules imposed upon them without their consent and against which they have protested and continue to protest?

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave on the 10th August to the hon. Member for Dul-wich, a copy of which I am sending to him. The information contained therein with regard to the central branch applies also to the Liverpool branches referred to in the question.

Licensing Hours

asked the Home Secretary how many and, if so, what benches of licensing justices outside the Metropolis have availed themselves of the permission to substitute eight and a half instead of eight hours and half-past ten at night instead of ten at night?

The information desired is not available yet; but the Secretary of State proposes that in the course of compiling the Annual Licensing Statistics information on this and other matters shall be collected at the end of the year with a view to the preparation of a general statement.

Kenya Colony (Indians)

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether a proposal has been made that Indian immigrants in the East African Colony and Protectorate should be placed on an equal status with Europeans; whether he has consulted the opinion of white inhabitants of the countries concerned with reference to this proposal; and if he will decline to accept it unless it appears that it is supported by such white opinion?

I have received many representations from European and Indian bodies regarding the position of Indians in Kenya, and I went into the matter very fully with the Governor when he was recently in this country. He is now engaged in discussing the question with the leaders of both parties in the Colony with a view to obtaining a settlement on lines which I have indicated to him. When his report is received it will require very careful consideration, but for the present I deprecate any further discussion on this side as being likely to prejudice the success of Sir Edward Northey's negotiations. He has announced that no hasty decision would be taken in the matter and that in any event no radical change would be made in the existing constitution until the end of the three years for which the present Legislative Council was elected, and that he was prepared to nominate one Indian member to the Executive Council and, after consulting with the local Indian Association, to nominate four Indian members to the Legislative Council in place of the two at present provided for, this being an interim measure pending the settlement of the main question of policy.

Portsmouth Juvenile Employment Committee

asked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that at a recent meeting of the Portsmouth and District Drapers' Association a letter was read from the local juvenile employment exchange suggesting that as a result of the trade board police court proceedings the trade would probably be taking on more hands, and expressing the hope that the association would make use of the exchange in view of the fact that the employment committee had made every effort to assist the trade in any action that had been taken to effect a reduction in the scales of pay which had been so detrimental both to employers and employed in the dressmaking industry; whether such a letter was actually sent by the exchange; whether it has received his approval; and, if not, what action he proposes to take in view of the statement, contained in the letter referred to?

A letter in the terms indicated by my hon. Friend was sent to the Portsmouth and District Drapers' Association by the; executive officer of the Portsmouth Juvenile Employment Committee. This officer is appointed and paid by the local education authority, and neither I nor any other Minister of the Crown is responsible for his action. I understand that the letter in question was not authorised by the Juvenile Employment Committee, and that the attention of the local education authority has already been called to the matter.

War Debts

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer the total amount of War debts due from European countries to the United Kingdom, giving the name of each country and the amount of debt in each case, and from the United Kingdom to the United States of America; and whether the whole of this amount is money which was relent to European countries for war purposes and therefore only guaranteed loans to European countries and from European countries to the United States of America direct?

Particulars of the debts totalling £1,963,353,493 due to this country in respect of advances for War and relief purposes, as at 31st March, 1921, are given on page 93 of the Finance Accounts for 1920–1921 (House of Commons 146). The British Government's debt to the United States Government on the same date was $4,196,818,358, which at par of exchange is £862,359,936. (This debt has since been reduced to $4,166,318,358, or £856,195,553.) In answer to the second part of the question, I think the simplest method of expressing the position is to say that after the entry of the United States of America into the War this country borrowed from the United States Government a sum of $4,277,000,000 (£876,000,000 at par), and that during the period in which this country was borrowing from the United States Government, the British Government advanced to its Allies a sum of £897,000,000. If we had not had to meet any calls for assistance from our Allies it would have been unnecessary for us to ask assistance from the United States Government.

Crown and Government Property

asked the Prime Minister whether he is in a position to announce the promised appointment of a committee to inquire into the administration of the Crown estates; and, if so, the terms of reference?

A Committee has been appointed to examine the question of concentrating in one Department all Government purchases and sales of land and buildings and the management of the estates of the Crown and Government property.

The Committee is constituted as follows:—

Sir Howard Frank, Bart., K.C.B.(Chairman).

The Right Hon. Sir Frederick Ponsonby, G.C.V.O., K.C.B.

The Hon. Edward Gerald Strutt, C.B., J.P.

Sir John Stirling Maxwell, Bart.

Sir Warren Fisher, K.C.B.

Sir John Hubert Oakley.