asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty if he is aware that before the War a major of the Royal Marines ranked with a lieutenant-commander of the Royal Navy, and received similar pay, prize money, &c, but that some years later his status and pay were raised to that of commander, but that the prize money awarded is that of a lieutenant-commander only; and if he will inquire into this oversight and correct the same?

My hon. and gallant Friend would appear to have been misinformed. The ranks of Commander, R.N., and Major, R.M., are each allotted 30 shares in the distribution of naval prize money.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty whether there are any British ships of war at Batum; and how many there are, how long they have been there, and what purpose they are serving?

No British man-of-war has visited Batum since the 19th March, 1921, when H.M.S. "Montrose" concluded a five-day visit to the port.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty the nature of the work in the dockyard at Bermuda which necessitates a staff nearly double that which existed before the War; whether it is proposed to reduce the present staff; and, if so, by what date will the reductions have been effected?

The present staff employed at Bermuda is the minimum necessary to carry out the work there, which is considerably greater and more complicated than before the War.

How can it be that, with a small Navy, and, apparently, attempts at economy on the part of the Admiralty, there has been more, work?

The disposition of the Navy has been considerably changed since the War, and at this moment we have, on the West Indian station—which embraces the whole of North American waters in both oceans, and, in the absence of a South American squadron, South American waters as well—four light cruisers.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty whether any statement can yet be made as to what is proposed with reference to officers surplus to requirements, in view of the deep anxiety felt by all officers of the Royal Navy as to their fate?

I hope that it will be possible to promulgate the Government scheme for the reduction of surplus personnel before the end of next week.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty what is the total number of the staff now employed at Pembroke dockyard; what is the monthly cost of the dockyard; what work is now being carried out there; and whether this yard is indispensable for naval purposes?

As the reply is somewhat long, I will, with my noble and gallant Friend's permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

The following is the reply:

The total numbers employed at Pembroke dockyard, including naval officers, civilian salaried staff and wages staff, are 1,969.

The monthly expenditure on salaries and wages is approximately £29,500.

The total average monthly expenditure on the dockyard cannot be stated without further investigation.

The work now being carried out is as follows: Oiler "Oleander," under construction. T.B.D. "Wren," completing construction. "President," fitting out as R.N.V.R. drill ship. R.F.A. "Burma," annual refit and docking.

There is also work incidental to the maintenance of the dockyard and local yard craft.

With regard to the last part of the question, I would refer my Noble and gallant Friend to the Memorandum explanatory of the Navy Estimates for 1922–23, which was submitted to Parliament by the First Lord of the Admiralty on 10th March last, and which (on page 11) gives a full explanation of the considerations which led the Government to come to its present decision.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty whether H.M.S. "Harebell," now on service in Murmansk waters, is fast enough for the work and is able to deal effectively with an opposition to the carrying out of International Law which may be anticipated from any quarter?

The answer is in the affirmative.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty if it is the intention of the Board to compulsorily retire lieutenants and lieutenant-commanders, Royal Navy, who have risen from the lower deck, at the age of 50 instead of 55 as at present; and if he is aware that such an act would be very unpopular and unfair to the Service and the country?

I regret I am not yet in a position to give any information with regard to the arrangements to be adopted for clearing the lists of surplus officers

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that, if this reduction takes place among the men who have risen from the lower deck, it will be said that it is only because they have no social influence behind them?

I would ask my hon. and gallant Friend to await the statement of Admiralty policy with regard to these matters, which I hope will be made public in a few days.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty (1) whether the Board can elucidate the meaning of the Order-in-Council, published in the "London Gazette" on Friday, enabling the Board to retire naval and marine officers for peculiarity of temper or other defect not amounting to misconduct or not caused by intemperate or irregular habits of life;

(2) whether, under the new Order-in-Council, the Board of Admiralty will be the sole determining authority as to peculiarity of temper sufficient to cause compulsory retirement and as to the rate of retired pay, pension, or gratuity given to an officer retired under these conditions?

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty whether an Admiralty Order has recently been issued authorising the compulsory retirement of naval officers, irrespective of age or service, for alleged peculiarity of temper, even when no charge of actual misconduct is preferred; who will be the judge of the peculiarity of temper sufficient to justify the professional ruin of these officers; whether the unsupported opinion of the commanding officer at the time being will be accepted as sufficient evidence on which to retire an officer; whether there will be any appeal open to these officers; and if he has considered the power which this order will place in the hands of certain commanding officers over the future of the officers under them unless these officers are safeguarded by an independent authority?

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty whether an Order has been made by the Admiralty affecting the compulsory retirement of naval officers on grounds other than those of age and service; and, if so, what are the terms of the Order?

The Order-in-Council, which appeared in the "London Gazette" of Friday, 28th April, enables the Admiralty to place on the Retired List, irrespective of age and service, officers of the Royal Navy and Royal Marines who are considered unsuitable for further employment for reasons other than misconduct. Hitherto it has only been possible to effect the compulsory retirement of officers under what is known as the Misconduct Order-in-Council, which entails forfeiture of not less than 10 per cent, of the retired pay of any officer concerned. The new Order-in-Council is designed to meet the cases of officers whose retention in the Service is undesirable for reasons other than misconduct, and to whom the Misconduct Order-in-Council, with its attendant financial penalties, would, if applied, obviously operate harshly. It has long been the practice to deal with such cases by placing the officers permanently on half-pay, and it is considered that it will be in the interests of the officers, as well as of the Service, that the alternative of retirement shall exist in cases of this kind. The decision in each case will, as in the case of officers retired under the Misconduct Order-in-Council, and officers placed permanently on half-pay, rest entirely with the Board of Admiralty, who naturally will consider most carefully all the relevant circumstances. There is no more reason for supposing that these additional powers will be abused, than there is for assuming that existing powers, which have been used only very sparingly, are abused, and I think it may be taken for granted that no Board of Admiralty will retire an officer under the new Order-in-Council on the unsupported opinion of his Commanding Officer, or, indeed, without very substantial evidence that his retirement is desirable and justified in the interests of the Service. The rates of retired pay to be granted are those with which an officer may retire voluntarily with retired pay, where such retirement is allowed; in the case of lieutenants and lieutenant-commanders, and officers of equivalent rank under 40, the rate will be the same as the non-service rate of retired pay, with a slight variation in the method of reckoning service. The rates in other cases are under consideration. I may add that the Order-in-Council is quite unconnected with the special retirement measures, the details of which are under consideration by His Majesty's Government, and will shortly be promulgated.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that granting of this despotic power is much resented in the Navy, and is he aware that the Admiralty is compelled to retire an officer who has been two years unemployed?

Who is to be the arbiter as to whether these officers should or should not be retained?

Of course the arbiter will be the Board of Admiralty, who will take into consideration very carefully all the information with regard to their various services. This Order in Council has been introduced for the benefit of the officers concerned.

Will the hon. Gentleman answer the last part of my question, whether there is any appeal open to these officers and whether there will be a stigma attached to officers who are retired under this Order?

The hon. Gentleman has not answered my question.

I thought I had answered it. It will be to the advantage of these officers that they should be able to go straight away on the footing of full retirement pay and not be kept on half pay till their period of half pay runs out.

Will the hon Gentleman consider the desirability of allowing officers who come under these rules to be heard personally in their defence so that they can plead their cause personally?

I will certainly consider that and the point raised by the hon. and gallant Member for Central Hull (Lieut.-Commander Kenworthy), but their so-called despotic powers are no greater than those exercised by the Admiralty in other respects, always with the greatest care.

If the commanding officer makes a report on these officers as to their fitness or otherwise for duty, will he make it known to the officers concerned before it is sent in?

I should like to consider that too, but we shall certainly not leave it to one commanding officer if he is adverse.

Is there to be any appeal tribunal?

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty whether, in view of naval reductions, it is proposed to reduce the number of boy artificers now accepted annually for Navy service; if so, can he state in what manner such reductions will take effect; and if it is proposed to reduce the number of places now placed at the disposal of education authorities in the country?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. The reduction will be effected by reducing the number of candidates declared successful on the results of the examinations held annually in April and October. As regards the last part of the question, all candidates recommended by educational authorities are examined in October, and candidates up to the number required are entered in order of merit as determined at this examination. It is not proposed to place any limitation upon the number of candidates that may be recommended by educational authorities, but, as already stated, the number of candidates declared successful on the result of the examination will be reduced.

asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty whether, in view of the proposed reductions in the Navy, his Department are still recruiting boys and youths for Navy services, and if any reduction is proposed in the number of boys and youths now accepted annually for the Navy; and, if so, can he make any statement as to how it is proposed to reduce recruiting of boys and youths for naval services in the future?

Recruiting of boys and youths for the Navy is entirely suspended. The only exceptions are in the case of boys from Greenwich Hospital School, who join that establishment with the sole object of entry in the Navy. The number of ratings entered in the Navy in future will depend on requirements at the time, which are considered in connection with the Estimates for each year.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is aware that the Brazilian Government is about to invite the British public to lend it a large sum of money; that the Brazilian Government has, since 1914, defaulted in its obligations to British subjects by suspending till 1927 its contracts with regard to sinking funds on most of the previous Brazilian loans; and whether he has requested the British firms acting for the Brazilian Government to inform that Government that the British Government regards with disfavour maltreatment of British capital entrusted to foreign Governments on the faith of pledges given by such Governments when they seek financial assistance from British subjects?

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is taking any steps to protect British subjects against possible loss by drawing attention to the fact that, contrary to the terms of contract contained in the invitation by Brazil to British subjects to subscribe to the Brazilian Four per Cent. (1911) Loan, the Brazilian Government has since 1914 dishonoured its obligation to repay by means of a sinking fund; and whether, in view of the impending issue in England of a fresh Brazil Government Loan, he has informed the Brazilian Government that the British Government takes note of the injury to British subjects caused by breaches of faith by foreign Governments in commercial transactions?

In consequence of the indisposition of my hon. Friend, I have been asked to answer these questions.

I understand that negotiations for such a loan have been proceeding, but have no official information on the subject. It has not been the practice of His Majesty's Government to interfere with the flotation of loans by recognised and responsible Governments, and I think that the public interest is best served by allowing these questions to be dealt with, as hitherto, on business lines.

Does not the Noble Lord think that the public interest would be better served if the Government now said that they will not allow this loan to be entered into here until the Brazilian Government has made good its contracts with British investors, in regard to which it has defaulted?

I have already said that I think the public interest will be best served by allowing these questions to be dealt with, as hitherto, on business lines.

Does not the Noble Lord think it advisable to warn the British public against these things?

I should have notice of that question, as I am answering for another Department, but perhaps I may say that I do not think it is the duty of the Foreign Office to warn the public.

That is question No. 8, and I ask whether the Noble Lord will do that?

No, certainly not.

Is it not the duty of the Foreign Office to protect British subjects from being, I will not say swindled, but misled by the prospectus of a foreign Government? Is it not the duty of the Foreign Office to protect British investors against the loss of their money?

Is it not really the duty of the Government to suggest, to those British capitalists who have money to invest, that, before investing abroad, they should invest in industries at home?

That does not arise out of the questions on the Paper. Any member of the investing public can judge for himself in a case of this sort whether the security put forward is good or bad.

——

We are now debating the matter.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the Commission to examine and report on the laws of war contemplated by the Washington agreement has actually been appointed; and, if so, who are the members thereof?

The United States Government have been notified of the appointment of Sir Rennell Rodd and Sir Erie Richards as the British delegates. The much regretted death of Sir Erie Richards has since deprived the British Empire of his services on the Commission, and the post of second British delegate has now to be filled. The United States Government have not yet communicated to His Majesty's Government the names of the delegates apointed by the United States of America, France, Italy and Japan.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will consider the possibility of commuting the remainder of the Boxer indemnity, and, with the object of promoting a better understanding between this country and China, apply it, half for the education of Chinese students in Great Britain and half in sending properly qualified and competent English persons out to China to study and report on the conditions prevailing there?

A committee has been appointed to consider the question of the education of Chinese on British lines in all its aspects. I will see that the attention of the committee is drawn of the hon. Member's suggestion.

Will the noble Lord represent that the education of Chinese on British lines should not be done at the expense of the British taxpayer?

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the British Government is putting into practice the recommendations as to passports and visas made in the London Memorandum of Experts?

The answer is in the affirmative, subject to reciprocity by other nations.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what information was in the possession of the Foreign Office on 17th April last relative to the German-Russian Treaty concluded at Genoa?

None.

asked the Lord Privy Seal at what date the first intimations were received from our Ambassadors as to the negotiations between Russia and Germany; whether any request was sent for further information; and why the Foreign Office did not warn the Prime Minister of the impending treaty?

No information was received by His Majesty's Government, prior to the signature of the Treaty of Rapallo, to the effect that any negotiations had begun which might lead to the signature of such an Agreement in the immediate future. The second and third parts of the question do not therefore arise.

Did not my right hon. Friend tell the House only two days ago that His Majesty's Government did receive information? May not the House know exactly what the information was from the ambassadors to the Foreign Office and why it was not given to the Prime Minister?

I answered the question two days ago, but my hon. Friend does not quote my answer correctly, and perhaps he will be good enough to refer to it.

Is there any truth in the report widely circulated in to-day's Press that the Prime Minister has notified M. Poincaré that this country would be ready to enter into an agreement with Russia, even without the sanction or consent of our gallant French allies?

That has nothing to do with the question on the Paper.

Will my right hon. Friend lay all Papers on the Table in order that the House may know exactly all that has transpired between the ambassadors and the Foreign Office?

I think that I answered that question.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what progress has been made with the withdrawal of Japanese troops from Eastern Siberia and the Maritime Province, in accordance with the pledges given by the Japanese Government at Washington; if he is aware that negotiations between Japan and the Far Eastern Republic have broken down following on an ultimatum presented by the Japanese Government demanding, among others, the right to keep military missions on the territory of the Far Eastern Republic; whether he has seen the terms of this ultimatum; and whether they can be given to the House?

I have no information regarding the plans of the Japanese Government for the withdrawal of their troops from Eastern Siberia. I am aware that negotiations between Japan and the Far Eastern Republic have been broken off, but I have no knowledge of the alleged ultimatum referred to by the hon. and gallant Member. The remainder of the question, therefore, does not arise.

Are His Majesty's Government completely disinterested in what goes on in Eastern Siberia, and is the Noble Lord aware that we had very important commercial interests there?

I have no information regarding the question put by the hon. and gallant Gentleman—no information to the effect that what he suggests has occurred has occurred.

Is it any use our wasting our time at Genoa trying to make peace with Russia in the West while our Associated Power is doing this in the East?

The hon. and gallant Member is giving his own opinion.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether His Majesty's Government has received a communication by radio from the Russian acting Foreign Commissary Karakhan, sent to the British and American Governments on 29th March, supporting the Note by the Foreign Minister of the Far Eastern Republic Yanson on 13th March, protesting against the action of the self-elected Merkulov Government in Vladivostok selling Russian ships and property and stating that the presence of Japanese military forces makes it impossible for the Far Eastern Government to thwart the White Guard looting of Russian national property, and further protesting that the Allied consulates were arming counterrevolutionary bandits under the pretext of maintaining order; whether any reply has yet been sent; and whether, in view of the agreements concluded at Washington and in the interests of humanity and justice, His Majesty's Government propose to take any action?

The answers to the first and second parts of the question are in the negative. His Majesty's Government do not propose, therefore, to take any action.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will state the cost of our foreign diplomatic and consular services in the first half of 1914 and the cost now; and the aggregate number of personnel then maintained, and the number now?

The net cost of the diplomatic and consular services in the first half of 1914 was £417,529, and the estimated net cost for a half-year on the present basis of expenditure £802,472. The aggregate number of personnel maintained then was 502, and the present number is 636.

In view of the fact that the cost now is very nearly double what it was in 1914, can the Noble Lord indicate to the House what hopes there are of a speedy reduction of this amount?

I must have notice of that question, in order to consult the Department.

Will the Noble Lord represent to the Minister concerned the desirability of appointing a committee of business men to investigate this expenditure?

The hon. and gallant Member should put that question on the Paper.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he is aware that the Coptic population of Egypt abandoned the Easter feast this year as a protest against Zaghloul Pasha's deportation; and whether, in view of this manifestation of feeling in Egypt, Zaghloul Pasha's repatriation will be reconsidered?

The reply to the first part of the question is in the negative. The second part does not therefore arise.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether His Majesty's Government, in view of the grave reports concerning Zaghloul Pasha's health, will consider the advisability of his immediate repatriation to his country, which is best suited to his health?

I have no information of a nature to justify the reports that Zaghloul Pasha's health is suffering, nor have I seen the report.

asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he has now ascertained that Zaghloul Pasha and his colleagues deported with him handed to the officer who was in charge of them at Aden, on the 7th February last, a written complaint signed by all of them to the effect that they were all at the time invalids, some suffering from diabetes, Bright's disease, and other complaints, and some from illnesses contracted since their arrest, and pointing out that to reside in a hot climate was dangerous to their lives, and asking to be sent quickly to a place less hot and damp than the Seychelles, where also there were no specialists and necessary medical and surgical requirements; whether the officer communicated this written com- plaint to the proper authorities as he promised them to do; and, if so, what is the decision arrived at?

The complaint mentioned by the hon. Member in the first part of the question has not yet been received, but I understand that a report on the subject has been asked for.

Is the Noble Lord aware that I asked the Foreign Office about this matter five weeks ago, and was informed that there had been no complaint? Are there any details in regard to the complaint as to the health of Zaghloul Pasha and his colleagues?

That is what I endeavoured to the best of my ability to answer. I said that the complaint mentioned by the hon. Member had not yet been received, but a report on the subject had been asked for.

That was five weeks ago, and there has been abundance of time. In the light of the widespread apprehension that these men will die there, will there be speedy inquiry into the matter and action taken?

I will ask the Foreign Office to endeavour to expedite their inquiries and give the hon. Member information, but I think he is under a misapprehension.

asked the Minister of Health if his attention has been called to the case, of C. W. Outwin, an ex-service man, who up to recently occupied a house at 119, Tivoli Street, West Norwood, erected by the Lambeth Borough Council under the Government schemes, at a rental of 19s. 4d. per week, upon which arrears of rent to the extent of £20 accumulated, due to lack of employment, and for which sum a judgment in the Court was secured against the tenant and not contested by him; whether he is aware that responsibility for the rent was subsequently accepted by the board of guardians, and that the offer was rejected by the Lambeth Borough Council, that later forcible entrance into the house was effected under a distress warrant by persons under the authority of the council, the contents of the house, valued at £60, taken away and sold, and that the man's wife and four children, age one to 14 years, were compelled to seek the shelter of the Poor Law institution; and whether, having regard to the 2½ years' military service overseas of the man referred to and his low nervous condition arising therefrom, he will make such representation to the Lambeth Borough Council upon the matter as the necessity of the case demands?

As the answer to this question is rather long, I am circulating it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Following is the answer:

I have made inquiries of the borough council and understand that Mr. Outwin was a tenant of one of the council houses from 6th June, 1921, to 4th April, 1922, at a weekly rent; that on only eight occasions was the total rent paid and only six other small payments on account of the rent were received during the tenancy; and that no payments at all were received after 14th November, 1921. The total arrears amounted to £31 7s. 1d. Numerous opportunities were given to the tenant to pay off the arrears of rent by means of instalments, but no payment was received. The council received from the guardians no intimation that they were willing to accept responsibility for the rent; in fact, that body notified the council on the 14th December, 1921, that Mr. Outwin was not known to them. The Order of the County Court was applied for on 11th February, 1922. The council now understand that Mr. Outwin was allowed 24s. on the 24th and 31st March for the payment of rent, but no attempt was made by Mr. Outwin to hand this money over or indeed to notify the council that such a sum had been set aside by the guardians for this purpose. The responsibility for administering the housing scheme rests with the council, and I am not prepared to interfere in the matter.

asked the Minister of Health what progress has been made for fixing a standard for condensed milk, whether sweetened or unsweetened, full-cream or skimmed; whether the Report of the Committee on such standards has been or will be issued; and, if so, when?

I would refer the hon. Member to the answer which I gave on Monday to the hon. and gallant Member for the Henley Division. I do not propose to publish the Report of the Committee on Condensed Milk Standards.

asked the Minister of Health whether he has received any communications from the Royal Gwent Hospital, Newport, Monmouthshire, and similar institutions, protesting against the decision of the Voluntary Hospitals Commission, which has decided that grants to hospitals shall be based on the income for the year ending 31st December, 1920, or the averages for the three years 1918, 1919, 1920; whether he is aware that for the year 1921, and the immediate following years, it will be impossible to show a similar income owing to reduced earnings of workers and others, which prevents them from subscribing to the same extent: and whether, in order that hospitals should derive some benefit from the £500,000 set aside by the Government, he will take steps to amend the terms and conditions so as to enable this to be done?

I understand that representations in this sense have been made to the Voluntary Hospitals Commission by certain hospitals in South Wales. It was laid down by the Government as one of the fundamental conditions for grant that assistance should ordinarily be based on the amount of new money raised or in sight, and the Commission have no power to vary this rule; but they may make emergency grants in cases where a hospital has exhausted its realisable assets and without assistance would be compelled to close beds.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the great historical value of the 25 volumes of Peace handbooks which were prepared and issued by the Foreign Office for elucidating the problems which arose in Europe and elsewhere out of the Great War, he will authorise the distribution of sets of these volumes amongst as many as possible of the public libraries in the large towns of the country?

The preparation of these handbooks, as to the value of which I share my hon. and learned Friend's opinion, entailed a heavy expense, both editorial and for printing, upon His Majesty's Government, which is now being in part recovered by their public sale. While, therefore, I hope that they will be widely purchased by the public libraries, as well as by private persons, in this country, I do not think that it would be consistent with principles of national economy to recommend a gratuitous distribution of them.

Will there be any surplus of these books?

I could not possibly say. It depends on the sale.

Has the hon. Gentleman any information as to the stock of these books, and is he aware that a great many of them are becoming obsolete and out of date through not being disposed of?

I have no personal knowledge of these books, but I will make inquiries if the hon. and learned Member desires.

Are these books available in the British Museum or any public library?

I cannot say.

asked the Minister of Labour whether he can state the reason why cleaners in public buildings have been ruled out of benefit under the unemployment scheme; and whether those contributions which were deducted from their wages prior to this ruling will be returned to them?

I am sending my hon. Friend a copy of the High Court decision of 13th January last, under which it is held that this class of employé is not insurable against unemployment. The contributions previously paid in respect of the employment now held to be uninsurable will be refunded on request, in so far as they exceed the amount of benefit received in the individual case.

asked the Minister of Labour the total number of prosecutions for fraud on the unemployment fund for the six months ending 31st March, 1922; and the number of frauds by direct claims and the number on associated claims?

During the six months ending 31st March, 1922, there were 701 prosecutions for alleged fraud on the unemployment fund, and 640 convictions were obtained. About 20 of these convictions were obtained against persons who had claimed through associations and the remainder against direct claimants.

Does it not follow from those figures that the policy adopted by the Ministry of Health and carried out with the assistance of the trade unions of paying associated benefit has a distinct deterrent effect on any attempt at fraud, and is more useful in finding out whether the applicant is eligible for the unemployment donation?

The hon. Member can draw his own conclusions from the figures, but we are obliged for the assistance which the unions give us in this regard.

What steps are being taken to improve a system which is so open to fraud?

That should be a separate question.

asked the Minister of Labour if he can give the full legal findings of the High Court on the question of unemployed insurance affecting persons who were previously paying into and receiving benefits from the fund; and what other sections of industry or profession, if any, other than caretakers, who had previously been contributory, are affected by such judgments?

I am sending my hon. Friend copies of the High Court judgments to which he refers. It is quite impossible, however, to make any general statement purporting to explain what effect the High Court decisions referred to may have upon other industries and professions; each case must be considered as it arises.

Would the case of a supplementary teacher at St. Helen come under the same category?

These are all cases of difficulty and the considerations applicable to them are all different, and it is impossible to give a general decision until the exact facts of the case are put before them.

In the case of the supplementary teachers previously obtaining unemployment benefit will their contributions be refunded to them?

I think the answer I have given in a rather similar case would apply, but I should like to consider the facts if the hon. Member will put a question down. Generally speaking the principle would be that where the decision of the High Court cuts out a class of persons who were held before that to come within the Act their contributions would be returned to them, subject to any deduction for benefit paid.

asked the Minister of Labour if he is aware that uncovenanted benefit has been refused to men working short time, alternative weeks, in the St. Helens glass industry on the grounds that they are not entitled to such benefit by regulation issued in Circular 535, Section 4, Clause 2; that this affects 600 men and their families; and if, in view of the fact that deductions are made from their scanty wages and the hardship of such cases, he will give favourable consideration to their appeal?

Under the powers conferred by the Unemployment Insurance Act, 1922, the Minister has decided that uncovenanted benefit should not ordinarily be paid to persons working short time who are earning, on the average, half, or more than half, their normal earnings. Local employment committees may, however, recommend pay- ment of benefit in cases where the earnings are so low as to justify a grant being made. I am having inquiry made into cases arising at St. Helens, and will communicate the result to my hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Health whether members of county nursing associations, whose employment is permanent, and who have their own pension scheme, will be exempted from contributing to national unemployment insurance?

I have been asked to reply. Persons employed as female professional nurses for the sick are, as from 1st July next, excluded from unemployment insurance by the Unemployment Insurance Act recently passed. As regards the effect of this provision in particular cases, I would suggest that full details of these cases should be submitted to the Department for consideration.

asked the Prime Minister whether, to stimulate national economy, he will consider the desirability of a reduction in all Ministerial salaries, and especially those which were raised during and immediately after the War?

The Report of the Select Committee on the remuneration of Ministers recommended increases in certain Ministerial salaries and decreases in others, but no action has been taken on this report, and none is proposed at present; and the only Ministerial salary raised during or immediately after the War is that of the Lord Privy Seal.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether this Government has at any time dealt with the Select Committee's Report?

I cannot say that. We have been very busily engaged with much more important matters. As the hon. Member knows, the Prime Minister did not think it right that he should accept the increase which the Select Committee suggested in his own case.

Apart from the Prime Minister, is not the Government going to make a readjustment in the scale of salaries of various Ministers, having regard to the inequalities of salaries for the various offices?

We have not found time to consider the matter. There is a good deal to be said on the one side and the other. It would probably be convenient, if any alterations are to be made, to make them when a new Government is formed, or when there is a general reorganisation.

Would the Government consider the advisability of adopting a sliding scale in accordance with the cost of living?

It would have been to the great advantage of His Majesty's Ministers if that suggestion had been adopted. As it is, no con sideration of the cost of living has been allowed to affect the salaries paid to Ministers.

asked the Prime Minister whether, before it is decided to annex Southern Rhodesia, a full opportunity will be given to the House to discuss and vote upon the question?

I do not think that it is necessary at this stage to consider the provision of a special opportunity for the discussion of the questions connected with the political future of Southern Rhodesia.

Will the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that this annexation dispatch will not be carried through without an opportunity of discussing it in this House?

The hon. and learned Gentleman is asking me about a matter which is primarily in the hands of the Secretary of State for the Colonies. His question was whether an opportunity would be given for discussing the question, and that is why I am answering. My impression, if my memory serves me right, is that the dispatch put two alternatives before the people of Southern Rhodesia, and recommended that a referendum should be held. When the result of the referendum is known the time would come for consideration as to whether an opportunity for discussion in this House is required or not.

I am asking that the Order-in-Council shall not go through until the House of Commons has had an opportunity of discussing it.

Will the right hon. Gentleman circulate the Papers showing the agreement made between the Imperial Government and the natives of Rhodesia after the Matabele War?

That question should be put to the Secretary of State for the Colonies.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what is the total amount of financial liability which would be incurred by the British Government in case the annexation of Southern Rhodesia is carried out on the terms proposed in the draft letters patent dispatched by the Government to the High Commissioner; and upon what Vote could such expenditure be discussed?

There is a difference of opinion between His Majesty's Government and the British South Africa Company as to the financial position with regard to the Company's administrative deficit arising out of the decision of the Privy Council in the Southern Rhodesia land case. This difference of opinion may form the subject of further judicial proceedings, and I can only reply, therefore, in the most general terms to my hon. and learned Friend's question. The draft Letters Patent for Southern Rhodesia were prepared on the basis that, should they come into operation, no liability of a financial kind would fall on His Majesty's Government except such as may arise in the event of the Crown using its powers under Article 33 of the Company's Charter to acquire buildings and works. With respect to these, it is impossible to forecast the exact amount involved, but the value of all the existing public works and buildings in Southern Rhodesia was estimated to be some £830,000 as on 31st March, 1918. Clause 51 of the Letters Patent provides for the repayment within 12 months of any moneys advanced for this purpose. Any provision which Parliament may be asked to make would form part of the Colonial Services Vote.

Will the Colonial Office adhere to the recommendations—I think from Lord Buxton's Committee—that the question of the grant owing to the South African Government should be left to the Law Courts and should not be settled outside by the Colonial Office and the British South Africa Company?

I would rather, since my hon. and gallant Friend invites my opinion on a matter of such importance, that he should put a question on the Paper.

: In any case no settlement will be come to, without the House being asked to approve of such settlement?

Yes, that is so.

Apart from the payment to the South African Company what liabilities are being taken over by the Government? Do they include payments of judges and so forth?

I am afraid if my hon. and learned Friend wishes to ask me that he should put down a question. It does not arise out of his original question.

That is the original question. I will put it down again.

asked the Prime Minister what steps the Government propose to take to provide for the feeding of those school children who, in the current year, will be deprived of the opportunity of getting meals at school owing to the decision of the Board of Education to reduce the expenditure on school meals which is to be recognised for grant by the sum of £730,000 during the year 1922–23?

The general view of the Government was explained in the answer given by the President of the Board of Education on 4th April to my hon. Friend the Member for North New- castle. There is no reason at all why the Poor Law authorities should not arrange with the local education authorities to pay the cost of school meals supplied to children of parents who are in receipt of outdoor relief. I believe that an expenditure by the local education authorities of £300,000 will amply cover all the provision of meals which properly falls within the scope of the Act, and when supplemented by contributions from the guardians will meet the needs of the case.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that if meals are provided by the guardians the whole cost will come on the rates, whereas under the education authority half is borne by the Treasury? Is he also aware that what he suggests would penalise the local authorities to the extent of £365,000 additional on the rates?

My best answer to the supplementary and argumentative question is that it cannot be proper that the Vote's of the Board of Education should be used in relief of the poor rate.

Have not these Votes hitherto borne this very necessary and proper charge, and why should any change be made to the detriment of the poor districts?

Undoubtedly a charge was being placed upon the Board of Education Votes which was never contemplated by the Act itself.

Are we to understand that the feeding of school children in future will only be for those children whose parents are in receipt of Poor Law relief?

That is not what I said. If the hon. Member will read what I said, he will see that that is not what I said.

asked the Lord Privy Seal whether he is now in a position to announce any appointment of a Government whip in place of the hon. Member for Argyllshire?

No, Sir.

asked the Lord Privy Seal whether he is aware of the strong feeling of dissatisfaction on the part of many public administrative bodies throughout the country at the excessive cost which is at present necessarily entailed in the promotion of Private Bills by councils or industrial corporations for purely local schemes; and whether he will set up a Committee to inquire and report with a view to ensure both greater economy and efficiency as to the practicability, such as by appointing local tribunals from county councils or otherwise, of simplifying the present procedure of inquiry by Parliamentary Committees in London?

The suggestion contained in the question would involve a complete revolution in the present system of Private Bill legislation; and no evidence has reached me of any demand for so drastic a change as would justify me in taking the course proposed by my hon. Friend.

asked the Minister of Health whether his attention has been drawn to the reports made by clergymen and others of the big falling off in the number of marriages solemnised at Easter, which they attribute mainly to the impossibility of newly-married couples securing houses; and, seeing that a continued diminution in the marriage rate is a serious menace to the future growth and well-being of the nation, what further steps beyond assisted emigration does the Government propose taking to prevent this misfortune?

I have no special information as to a decline in the number of Easter marriages, and if there was such a decline I should suppose that the existing industrial depression was as powerful a contributory cause as any other As regards further Government housing, I can only refer the hon. Member to my previous statements on the subject.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that the Cor- poration of Kingston-upon-Thames have intimated that the houses erected by them, with financial assistance from the State, are to be sold and will not be let to would-be tenants; whether this decision of the local authority was made with his knowledge and sanction; and whether he will issue an instruction that, in view of the present housing shortage and of the inability of many people to purchase, houses erected under the Government scheme are not to be kept vacant pending purchase?

The answer to the first and second parts of the question is in the affirmative. I have always encouraged the sale of houses by local authorities, and I am anxious that wherever ready sales can be effected, as I am informed is the case here, this course should be adopted. I fully appreciate the objection to keeping houses empty without sufficient reason, and I am in communication with the Council as to the steps to be taken to secure the early occupation of these houses.

Does the right hon. Gentleman suggest that the national housing programme initiated by His Majesty's Government had for its object the endowment of houses built for sale, when millions of His Majesty's subjects cannot afford rent much less purchase money, and will he take steps to reconsider that decision having regard to that fact that many urban councils have refused the overtures made by responsible—[HON. MEMBERS: "Order!"]—Order yourself. [HON. MEMBERS: "Speech!"]

I do not know what the hon. Member means. Obviously if there are people who want to buy houses who have the purchase money they will buy houses. I am in favour on behalf of the Exchequer and the local authorities of enabling people to buy houses if the opportunity arises, as this will save a large loss to the Exchequer.

Did not the right hon. Gentleman suggest that these houses should be sold at 50 per cent, of their value, and would not that have the effect of making a present to the property owners at the expense of the community.

I do not think so. The houses will be sold to those who want to occupy them. In the opinion of the Geddes Committee a great saving to the Exchequer will result if the houses are sold.

The Geddes Committee looked at it from the business point of view, and I am looking at it from the human point of view.

It is just as human for a man to live in a house he owns as to live in a house he rents.

asked the Minister of Health whether he is aware of the suffering and inconvenience caused to the members of the National Catholic and Thrift Society, at Ashbourne and many other districts, in consequence of the suspension of sick benefit payments, resulting from a decision in recent legal proceedings; and whether, under the exceptional circumstances, he can take any action which will relieve the existing distress in the districts affected?

I have already communicated with the committee of management of the society in question, and am satisfied that arrangements have been made for any members of the central branch of the society, who are entitled to benefits, to obtain payment without any avoidable delay. If the hon. Member will send me, particulars of any case in which a member is unable to obtain benefit to which he is entitled, I will see that the matter has immediate attention.

asked the Minister of Health if any, and, if so, what system of analysis of milk offered for public consumption is practised by the Ministry of Health; if such analysis has been in operation during the last six months; if so, where and with what results; is he aware that analysis and bacteriological examination of milk samples recently taken in the City of Newcastle-on-Tyne, approximately 50 per cent, showed really serious pollution; and what steps he intends to take to counteract such serious menace to the health of the people?

The analysis of milk is not undertaken by my Department, but I am aware of the results stated in recent reports of the medical officer of health for Newcastle. I am hoping to introduce legislation with a view of effecting a substantial improvement in the milk supply of the country.

Will the right hon. Gentleman answer the last part of the question as to 50 per cent, of the samples taken showing serious pollution?

That is why I propose to get all the information at the earliest possible date.

Does the right hon. Gentleman intend to take some action immediately?

Would the right hon. Gentleman send down a Government analyst to verify or refute the serious statements in the latter part of the question?

I shall be very pleased to do so.

asked the Minister of Health whether his Department approved the action of an eastern county town council, who have allowed local rates to be paid by slips containing postal stamps which could be affixed weekly, or at such times as suit the finances of small ratepayers; whether he is prepared to consider similar proposals for London borough councils, and specially for those districts where compounding has been done away with by the councils, and in consequence great hardships inflicted on weekly tenants, who are now called upon to pay rates direct in monthly or quarterly amounts?

In order to facilitate the collection of the poor rate on small properties I have assented experimentally in one case, subject to the approval of the Postmaster-General, to the adoption of a scheme of the nature described in the question, and I am prepared to give favourable consideration to other applications of a like nature. I may add that I have also assented in a few cases to the trial of a somewhat similar scheme under which the rates may be paid by special municipal rate stamps.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether his attention has been called to the speech by Sir Humphrey Leggatt, at the meeting of the British East Africa Corporation, in which he refers to the enormous increase in the salaries of officials and taxation of natives in Kenya Colony; whether the expenditure has increased from one to two millions annually; whether interest on the new loan has now to be added; and whether he will appoint a Committee to recommend all-round reductions of expenditure and more equity of taxation in this Colony?

The answer to the first part of the question is in, the affirmative. I do not propose on this occasion to discuss Sir Humphrey Leggatt's figures, which relate to last year, and are in some respects inaccurate. Moreover, they do not show sufficiently the extent to which a nominal increase in expenditure, &c, as reckoned in sterling, is due to local currency changes. The estimate of expenditure for 1921 was £2,371,000, and for 1922 £1,946,000, but important reductions on this figure have already been made. Loan charges will be due when the amount set aside out of the proceeds of the loan for payment of interest pending the completion of the works is exhausted. The burden will fall almost entirely on the Uganda Railway, whose finances are kept separate from those of the Colony. The Governor has already appointed a Committee with the precise objects suggested by the hon. and gallant Member, and he has also within the last month reduced direct native taxation by one-fourth.

Will this Committee appointed by the Governor be able to deal with the Governor's own salary, which has risen, with allowances, to £18,000 a year?

That is one of the inaccuracies in Sir Humphrey Leggatt's figures to which I have referred. The Committee will obviously be able to review the whole thing.

Can we have the actual figures as to the Governor's salary and allowances?

Perhaps the hon. and gallant Member will put down a question on the subject.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he will publish the conditions of service under which ex-members of the Royal Irish Constabulary have entered the British gendarmerie in Palestine?

The expense of publication hardly seems justified in the circumstances, but I shall be happy to supply my hon. Friend and any other Member of the House with a copy of the agreement if they so desire.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether the Commission to investigate the claims awarded under the Criminal and Malicious Injuries (Ireland) Act has been appointed; and, if so, if it has yet begun its investigations?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the negative, and the second part does not therefore arise. I hope, however, to be able to inform the House of the composition of this Commission next Monday.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a very large number of poor people whose houses have been burned-and property destroyed, and that they are in great financial difficulties, and will he accelerate the appointment of this Commission?

That is the question which has already been answered.

asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether his attention has been called to a statement by the leader of the Provisional Government of Southern Ireland that he had been able to allot a substantial sum of money to start the rebuilding of that part of the city of Cork that was recently destroyed; and will he say if this money has been paid by Great Britain in accordance with the arrangement recently arrived at between the Parliament of Great Britain and the Southern Irish Provisional Government?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative, and to the second part in the negative.

How has this money been allotted if this case has not been investigated?

I must inform the hon. and gallant Gentleman that the revenues of Southern Ireland now flow into the Exchequer of the Provisional Government, and they can spend this money as they wish.

Will not the Provisional Government recover this money from the Exchequer?

That is a matter of accounts. These different questions are settled by the Tribunal whose personnel, it is hoped, will be announced on Monday.