asked the Minister of Pensions whether he is aware that Joseph Patrick Ryan, No. 51,911, West Riding Regiment, was in July, 1916, classified at Pontefract as medically unfit; that he was called up in May, 1918; that he was subsequently discharged as permanently unfit; that prior to being called up he worked at arduous jobs, which he was able to discharge without loss of time; and that he is now suffering from debility due to service and unable to follow his employment and has been refused any pension for debility; and whether he will inquire into this case?

The disability in this case was regarded as constitutional, but aggravation by service was admitted, which, however, was considered to have passed away when, on examination by a Medical Appeal Board in 1920, no remaining disablement was found to exist. The decision of the Ministry was confirmed on appeal by the Pensions Appeal Tribunal, and being now, therefore, final, I regret that the case cannot be re-opened

asked the Minister of Pensions if he is aware that J. Carter, of 13, Apley Road, Doncaster, and late of the Royal Air Force, was constantly undergoing treatment from July, 1917, to September, 1918, for rheumatism brought on by exposure while night flying, and was then in hospital as the result of an accident until he was demobilised in February, 1919: that since his demobilisation Carter has constantly had to cease work owing to recurring illness; that he has been totally incapacitated since May, 1922, through rheumatism and pulmonary tuberculosis; that Carter's health record previous to joining the Army was good; that his local doctor is strongly of opinion that his disease was contracted during his period of military service; and that this man will probably never be able to work again; and, in view of these circumstances, will he take steps to have this case re-opened so that the evidence which has accumulated since his claim was rejected in November, 1920, may be taken into consideration?

There is no available evidence that this man suffered during service from the disabilities claimed, nor did he make any claim in respect of them until a year after he was demobilised. Moreover, a medical board, by which he was examined at the time of his demobilisation, found no disability. The rejection of the claim to pension has been confirmed on appeal by the Pensions Appeal Tribunal, and is now, therefore, final.

In these numerous cases that are arising, where the local doctors entirely disagree with the medical board, is there any possibility of getting a conference of some description, where the opinions of these local doctors can be taken into consideration, so that these people may be given a chance?

The suggestion that these people do not get a chance is, of course, inaccurate. The views of the private doctors are put before the Tribunal, and it is our wish that they should receive consideration before that body.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that cases are on record where, after a month's diagnosis in a tuberculosis sanatorium, the doctors have certified that the man was suffering from tuberculosis contracted while on service, and yet the decision has been given against that diagnosis of the superintendent of the sanatorium?

Perhaps the hon. Member will put down a question.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether it is his policy to gradually close down the hospitals attached to his Department and in their stead to establish centres for the treatment of ex-service men who are eligible and in need of treatment; and, if so, who is it intended to appoint to run and supervise such centres?

I am not quite clear what the hon. and gallant Member has in mind. I may, however, explain that the demand for in-patient treatment is diminishing, and that the gradual reduction of accommodation in Ministry hospitals follows naturally. A considerable number of out-patient clinics and departments have already been established at convenient centres throughout the country, and these are administered either by the Ministry or by civil hospitals or the British Red Cross Society on an agreed basis.

asked the Minister of Pensions how many final awards were made during the 12 months ending 31st March, 1923; in how many cases men in receipt of conditional pensions were given final weekly allowances; whether any of these men were suffering from permanent deterioration as a result of War service; if so, whether the final weekly allowance was based on an actuarial assessment of the amount a man would have received had he been in receipt of a small pension for the rest of his life; and whether any reduction and, if so, what has been effected in the cost of pensions in the cases of men who have been given final awards?

The total number of awards declared to be final during the period referred to was approximately 246,000. In about 128,000 of the cases in which the final award was at the rate of less than 20 per cent. the men were previously in receipt of a conditional pension. I am unable to say in what proportion of these cases the disability was permanent, but in only a minority of cases (amounting to not more than one-third) of the whole number was the disability certified to be of indeterminate duration, and in most of these cases the disability was a minor injury in a final and stationary condition. The answer to the fourth part of the question is in the negative. Compensation by way of pension is only payable under the Warrants and Regulations for disablement at the rate of 20 per cent. and upwards. For minor disablement below 20 per cent. the aggregate amount of compensation that may be paid is limited, under the provision of the Warrants, to £200.

Will the right hon. Gentleman say what is the reduction effected in the cost with regard to final awards, as asked in the last part of the question on the Paper?

It is not possible to give that. In some individual cases there is a saving, and in some cases the expenditure is larger.

Will the right hon. Gentleman give the net result, whether it is a loss or a gain?

There is no net result of loss or gain, but simply a considerable payment of money from the public purse under the provisions of the warrants.

But has not a direct question been asked in the fifth paragraph of the question on the Paper, namely, what is the effect on the cost of pensions in the cases of men who have been given final awards?

I cannot agree that there is a saving. In some cases there is a saving, and in others there is additional expenditure.

asked the Minister of Pensions what is the number of final awards in four-year cases made during the 12 months ending 31st December, 1922; what was the number of conditional pensions that, on the award being made final, were replaced by a final weekly allowance and what was the average period for which final weekly allowances were awarded?

The total number of men examined and recommended for final awards in four-year cases during the year referred to was 54,600. The number of these cases which were at the rate of 20 per cent. or upwards and under 20 per cent., respectively, was not at the outset specially recorded, but for the period for which a record was kept of the numbers of each of the two classes recommended by medical boards, recommendations in favour of permanent pensions were in the proportion of six to four recommendations for awards of less than 20 per cent. The proportion of the former class shows a steady increase. In addition to these some 64,000 permanent pensions were made statutory final, and a great proportion of these are four-year cases. The average duration of final weekly allowances is about 80 weeks.

asked the Minister of Pensions if he is aware that Sergeant-Major J. Miller, No. 143,728, Royal Air Force, has applied for a disability pension through the Air Ministry; whether the application has been passed on to his Department; if so, is he aware that the applicant has been off work for eight weeks through bronchitis, influenza, and malaria; and, under these circumstances, can a decision as to pension be arrived at without further delay?

I am inquiring into the facts of this case, and will write to my hon. Friend at an early date.

asked the Minister of Pensions on what grounds Captain Hugh McLaren Paton, late officer in His Majesty's Regular Army, serving with the Cheshire Regiment, and now residing at 20, Fontaine Road, Streatham, S.W.16, is denied the right to any pension or gratuity for 11 years, 111 days' uncommissioned service; and what steps, if any, he is prepared to take to remedy this injustice?

I have been asked to reply. As the answer is rather long, I will, with the hon. and gallant Member's permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he is satisfied that officials, male or female, employed by his Ministry in the Irish Free State and paid for by the British taxpayer are ex-service men or the wives or daughters of ex-service men; by whom are the appointments made; and what is the total estimated cost of the payment and administration of pensions in the Irish Free Sate for the present financial year?

The staff directly employed by the Ministry as temporary officials and clerks in the Irish Free State comprises 389 ex-service men, 3 non-service men, and 25 women. The women were transferred from local committees, and have been reduced from 49 to 25 since the 1st February last; further reductions in this number are being made. The estimated cost of payments made in the Irish Free State in respect of the administration of pensions is £144,000 for 1923–24.

What will be the total cost of the pensions during the financial year?

I cannot say without notice.

asked the Minister of Pensions how many local war pensions committees are in existence in the Irish Free State; is there any one official directly responsible to him for the work of these committees and the administration of war pensions generally, having regard to the fact that the Free State is outside the control of Imperial Parliament, and makes no contribution to the cost of war services or of the war debt?

Excluding the counties of Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan, which are included in the area of the North Ireland War Pensions Committee, there are in the Irish Free State 20 local war pensions committees and one war pensions committee. The Regional Director, Ulster, is responsible for the work of the Committee and the administration of war pensions so far as regards the counties of Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan, and the Regional Director, South Ireland, for the work of the committees and administration of war pensions for the remaining counties in the Irish Free State.

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that there is real control over pensions in the Irish Free State?

The position is one of considerable difficulty which vie are doing our best to deal with satisfactorily.

Is it not a fact that the Ministry of Pensions take especial care to keep under their own control ex-service men in Ireland.

That is so. We consider it our duty to do what we can for these ex-service men in the South of Ireland.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he is aware that the late Mr. It. Mason, of 81, Glover Street, West Bromwich, was granted a final weekly allowance by the Minister of Pensions on the 7th November, 1921, which was confirmed by an Appeal Board on the 18th April, 1922; that this man appealed to the Lord Chancellor's tribunal but the appeal was not heard until the 7th February, 1923, 10 months after the. Ministry of Pensions' decision; that the appeal was allowed on the 7th February and that the Ministry of Pensions notified an award of 156 weeks at 7s. 6d. a week, plus £40 final gratuity shortly afterwards, but that up to the 24th March this year no pension had been paid; that this unfortunate man committed suicide on that date because he had lost all hope; and whether, in view of the tragic circumstances connected with this case, he will take steps to see that unreasonable delays of this kind do not occur in future?

It is not the case, as has been publicly stated, that this man was kept waiting for several years for pension. On the contrary, he was continuously in receipt of compensation from my Department from his discharge in December, 1917, until the 13th December, 1922. There was unhappily some delay in the hearing of the appeal which he made in August, but in view of the charges which have been made I should perhaps point out that the case would have been decided in November had he not failed to attend before the tribunal on the 15th of that month, when his appeal was listed for hearing. The break in payment which occurred after the 13th December last would also have been avoided.

asked the Minister of Pensions what was the number of appeals against final awards received by the Ministry during the three months ended March, 1923, also the number awaiting decision by the tribunal, and the number remaining in the hands of the Ministry on that date?

Approximately 15,650 appeals to the Assessment Tribunal were received during the 12 weeks ending on the 24th March last. At that date some 16,650 appeals were outstanding, of which about 9,000 were with the tribunal authorities, the remainder being either with the Ministry or in course of transmission to or from the tribunals.

In view of the tremendous number of appeals waiting and the delay that takes place, as much as four or five months, will the right hon. Gentleman do something to expedite the hearings?

We are watching and keeping in touch with the tribunals in order to represent to the Lord Chancellor if we thought there was delay. I understand some additional tribunals are being set up. The present rate at which appeals are being dealt with by these tribunals is 1,100 per week.

Are the decisions made retrospective where this delay has occurred?

Certainly.

asked the Minister of Pensions if he is aware that the claim of Mrs. Mary Mansel, of 70, Porten Street, Ashington, Northumberland, widow of the late Private Timothy Mansel, No. 3,244, Northumberland Fusiliers, has been disallowed before a tribunal; that Timothy Mansel was awarded 60 per cent., and totally and permanently discharged from any form of military service; and that the precis showed that for him, his wife, and three children £2 1s. 8d. weekly was allowed; and will he open this case again, as the widow and three children are in distressed circumstances?

This man was invalided from the Army in 1915 on account of nephritis and was admitted to pension for that disability. He died nearly seven years later from an acute illness which lasted only a few days and which could not be connected with service. The decision of the Ministry rejecting the widow's claim to pension has been confirmed on appeal by the Pensions Appeal Tribunal and is now, therefore, final.

How are this widow of an ex-serviceman and her three children to live?

The hon. Member is doubtless aware that we are by law not allowed to compensate for any disablement or death which is not due to the War. This unfortunate man died of a sudden illness seven years after the War and it is decided that his illness was not due to the War.

Can she not go to another tribunal for a widow's pension?

I have told the hon. Member that the decision is, by law and by the decision of the House of Commons, final.

Will the right hon. Gentleman promise to get the law altered in favour of this woman?

No, Sir.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether it is proposed to amalgamate the Tynemouth area with the Newcastle and Hexham area; if so, what will be the days and hours of opening of the Tynemouth area office in North Shields; and whether the proposals with respect to amalgamation of areas in the Northern region have been submitted to the Regional Advisory Council for consideration?

The possibility of amalgamating the staff in the Newcastle, Hexham and District area with that in the Tynemouth, Wallsend and District area is under consideration. The War Pensions Committees for the two areas have been invited to express their views, and when their observations have been received I will give the matter my personal consideration.

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that the benefits accruing from these larger areas sufficiently compensate for the fact that confidence is shattered thereby?

I believe the machinery is very much better than the old.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether in the event of members of the staff at regional headquarters, Nottingham, being offered appointments in other towns the Ministry will pay the cost of removal?

Transfer in these cases is the alternative to termination of services, and I regret that I am unable to authorise the payment of removal expenses.

What actually are the conditions, either of notice to terminate engagements or of transference to any other available situation?

I will send the hon. Member a copy of the full statement explaining to these employés of the Ministry what their position is.

Is it not a fact that in many cases a formal week's notice only has been issued to those who were being dismissed in consequence of the removal to Birmingham from Nottingham?

That is not in accordance with the information I received yesterday. If the hon. Member will send me his information I shall be happy to look at it.

Will the right hon. Gentleman be willing to receive a deputation of Members of Parliament from this area to discuss the whole question?

The House knows I am always willing to receive Members of Parliament.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether the only person employed at the regional headquarters, Nottingham, for whom another post has been found is the regional director; whether he has been appointed to a similar post in another region at a salary of £875 a year; and whether this official is receiving at the same time a pension of £1,000 a year for service in another Department?

The facts are as stated; but I may add that no other officer at Nottingham has, so far, become redundant and that, as I informed the hon. Member on the 19th instant, every competent officer employed there will be offered employment in some other part of the Ministry.

Has this gentleman had his furniture removed and the charges paid?

Not to my knowledge. I must have notice.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether there is a one-year limit for the recovery of over-issue of pensions or allowances, such over-issues being due to errors on the part of the staff of the Ministry; whether any instruction has been issued instructing officers to effect recovery of over-payments made subsequent to let April, 1921; and, if so, will he cause instructions to be issued that no recovery of pensions or allowances made in error shall be effected in respect of any payments made prior to 1st April, 1922?

I would refer the hon. Member to the answer which I gave him on the 19th April. The arrangements I then referred to will apply to all over-issues. Provided the over-issue was not due to fraud or misrepresentation and was not notified to the pensioner within 12 months no recovery will be effected where the over-payment terminated before the 1st April, 1922. Instructions to this effect have already been issued.

Will the right hon. Gentleman not consider in the case of an over-payment whether he will make the amount taken off the pension as small as possible?

I shall be happy to consider the suggestion. We are making, arrangements to have these cases considered in the areas in order to avoid bringing so many up to London.

Will the hon. and gallant Gentleman not make it a flat rate of a penny a week?

asked the Minister of Pensions, seeing that the loss of two fingers from wounds entitles a pensioner to 20 per cent. pension, as is provided for in the Royal Warrant, why the pension of ex-Sergeant C. May, No. 202,605, of Matlock, late of the Sherwood Foresters, who is a married man, has been reduced below 20 per cent. and a final pension and gratuity awarded him?

The opinion of my medical advisers is that the disability suffered is not equivalent to the loss of two fingers. The man has, however, appealed to the tribunal against that finding and will thus have the opportunity of substantiating his claim that the assessment is inadequate.

asked the Minister of Pensions if he will issue a scale of pensions of officers, men, and dependants who are eligible for commutation, providing all circumstances justifying commutation warrant such a course being taken; and, if such scale or regulations do not exist, will he give instructions that such shall be issued immediately?

Officers in receipt of permanent retired pay or wound pensions are in certain circumstances allowed to commute. I am sending the hon. Member a copy of the printed statement explaining the rules drawn up for this purpose under the Pensions Commutation Act. As regards other ranks, regulations under Section 7 of the War Pensions Act, 192], have been prepared and will shortly be issued. The pension awarded to a widow or a dependant, being not necessarily a life pension, can in no circumstances be commuted.

also asked the Minister of Pensions whether pensions can be commuted which are less than 2s. a day; whether he is aware that many partially-disabled men receiving less than 2s. a day are desirous of commuting their pensions with a view to purchasing a house or a business; and whether, if the Regulations do not now allow this to be done, he will make such alteration as is necessary to meet this type of case?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the negative. As regards the remainder of the question, I would refer the hon. Member to the answer given on the 15th March to the hon. and gallant Member for Cathcart, of which I am sending him a copy.

Having regard to the inadequacy of such pensions from the point of view of enabling one to live, would it not be desirable to commute these pensions in order to enable the men to go into whatever business they desire?

Commutation is only granted in exceptional cases. It is greatly in the interests of the pensioner himself that he should not commute.

Has not the right hon. Gentleman's Department turned down applications from ex-service men who want to go overseas, where they have homes and opportunities?

I have to consider cases of that sort, and that is the kind of case where we do favourably consider commutation.

In regard to final awards, is it not desirable in cases where there is no possibility of increasing the pension to commute where it is desired by the ex-service man?

I do not think anybody would seriously contend that a pension of 10s. a week should be increased to over 14s. a week in order to enable a man to, commute.

asked the Minister of Pensions what is the number of men in receipt of pensions in each region; what is the number of men on home treatment in each region; and what is the number of men on home treatment with treatment allowances in each region?

I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT a tabular statement giving the information desired as far as it is available.

asked the Minister of Pensions the number of cases in the 12 months ending 31st December, 1922, where application was made by the relatives of a deceased pensioner dying in an institution for travelling expenses to attend the funeral in the district where the institution was situate; what was the total sum involved; and what would have been the charge on the Ministry's funds had the bodies of the deceased been conveyed to their homes?

No separate record is kept of cases of this nature.

Will the right hon. Gentleman supply as much information as he can get, and will he reconsider his decision not to make these payments retrospective?

Seeing that the large number of questions put to him indicate many grievances against his Department, does not the right hon. Gentleman think that the time has arrived for him to change his attitude towards claims for pensions?

I should say that the references to them in certain newspapers rather suggest organisation.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether the Order of the Ministry prohibiting local pensions officers from making advances to pensioners when payment by the Post Office is impossible owing to the non-arrival of draft-books was submitted to and considered by the central advisory committee, and, if so, on what date: whether the opinion of the regional advisory councils or war pensions committee was sought before this change in procedure was brought into effect; and, if so, what was the nature of their replies?

The reply to the first three parts of the question is in the negative. I would refer the hon. Member to my reply of the 19th instant to the hon. Member for Bow and Bromley, of which I am sending him a copy.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he is aware that the retiring age for civil servants is 60: whether it is the practice when making appointments in the Ministry of Pensions to ignore any evidence that an officer about to be or who is appointed has completed a period of service in another Department, and is receiving a pension adequate to live on; and whether he will in future give preference to men in receipt of pensions awarded in respect of disabilities due to war service, as in the majority of cases disability pensions are insufficient to maintain the average standard of living?

Under Clause 15 of the Order in Council of 10th January, 1910, the compulsory age of retirement of permanent civil servants is 65, but provision is made for an extension of this limit in special cases. The answer to the second part of the question is in the negative, but the object is to secure the person best fitted for the work. Preference is already given to disabled men, and I may point out that, of the total male staff of the Ministry, 97·9 per cent. are ex-service men, and that of these 43·3 per cent. were disabled as a result of war service.

Is it not a fact that a number of the more highly-paid officials in the right hon. Gentleman's Department are in receipt of very large pensions, and is not that in defiance of the Civil Service regulations—not as to when they shall retire, but as to whether they shall have employment while in receipt of a pension?

Is it not the case that the pensions of civil servants are in the nature of deferred salary, and are entirely their property, and that to take them into account in connection with future payments is practically to deprive them of their property?

That is so, but I may say that the contention of the hon. Member for Bow and Bromley (Mr. Lansbury) would gravely disable ex-service men of all ranks from finding employment in the public service, because his suggestion is that we ought to take into account a soldier's pension when we are considering whom we are to employ.

Is it not a fact that, in putting these questions to the right hon. Gentleman, what has been asked has always been whether a man in receipt of an adequate pension should also draw a salary while men in receipt of no pension cannot get any work The Minister is entirely misrepresenting what I said. [HON. MEMBERS: "Order!"] I am not going to allow him to do that.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether under his supervision one of the principal assistant secretaries, late director of establishments, is responsible for staff appointments, the financial assistant secretary responsible for finance, the director-general of medical services for medical services, the director-general of awards for awards, the inspector-general for local administration, and the controller for the Pension Issue Office; whether it is necessary to have other officers in the secretariats for the general supervision and control of the Ministry machine; and whether, in view of the duplication of responsibility, supervision, and work, he will consider the early abolition of the secretariat, seeing that he could by this abolition effect an economy of not less than £20,000 a year?

I am satisfied that the result of the adoption of the hon. Member's suggestion would be the reverse of economy. The secretariat, which was introduced in its present form in 1919, has shown itself to be a distinct improvement on the earlier organisation, on lines similar to those which the hon. Member apparently now contemplates, and its officials are more than fully employed on duties which are essential to proper administration. The Departmental Committee of 1921, on which all sides of this House were represented, were satisfied of the necessity for the secretariat.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether the figure of approximately 11,000, recently given as the highest reached for the employment of temporary women clerks in his Department, includes those employed prior to October, 1920, or at a later date on the staff of institutions and hospitals under the control of the Ministry; and, if not, what was the highest figure reached for the employment of temporary women clerks in offices attached to these?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the negative. No exact figures were available in respect of women clerks employed in hospitals and institutions till December, 1919, when the number was 41. The highest figure reached was 118 in October, 1920.

asked the Minister of Pensions what is the average length of service in the Department of men and women temporary officials above grade I, respectively; and what arrangements will be made on their dismissal for the recognition of their service when this has exceeded five years?

The average length of service of men temporary officials is about three years, and of women temporary officials about five years. These officers hold their appointments on the clear understanding that they have no claim to permanent appointments, to compensation under the Superannuation Acts for loss of office, or to pension, and I regret that they are ineligible for a gratuity on discharge.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Army Pay Corps receive £8 gratuity after two years' service, even the lowest grade, and could not he extend a similar arrangement to-those mentioned in the question?

That is a matter which clearly concerns the Treasury.

asked the Minister of Pensions what was the average length of service of temporary women clerks above Grade 3 employed in October, 1920?

I am afraid it is impracticable to undertake the detailed inquiry necessary to furnish an exact answer to the question. It may be assumed, however, that the average length of service was about two years.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether, exclusive of the area offices, there is a reduction of 1,991 temporary clerks in the staff of the Ministry since 1st April, 1922; if so, would he state the number of ex-service women and the number of ex-service men included in the 1,991 temporary clerks no longer in the employ of the Ministry; and what is the number of ex-service men, at one time employed by local War Pensions Committees and whose wages were paid by the Ministry, who have been discharged since 1st January, 1922?

The net reduction since the 1st April, 1922, in the temporary staff employed on work of a clerical or kindred nature is 1,720, exclusive of area offices. This number includes 656 ex-service men and 70 ex-service women, most of whom have resigned or have been appointed to permanent posts. No particulars are available which will enable me to answer the latter part of the question.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether his Department is making every effort to retain the woman clerk who has others dependent upon her or, where that is impracticable, to obtain for her remunerative employment elsewhere?

Subject to the principle that the efficiency of the office must be the first consideration, women with dependants will be retained in my Department in preference to those who have only themselves to support. I have, however, no power to secure employment for them elsewhere when their services are no longer required.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will inform the House whether the special Committee set up to report on the initial salary as permanent civil servants of extemporary clerks appointed to permanent posts will cover all ex-temporary clerks appointed to the clerical and writing assistant classes since the end of the War?

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the fact that the Resolution of the hon. Member for East Fife in regard to initial salary was not restricted to ex-temporary civil servants, who were technically Lytton entrants, but covered all ex-temporary clerks appointed to established classes since the end of the War, he can state on what grounds the terms of reference to the special Committee on this matter are confined to persons covered by paragraph 43 of the Lytton Report; and whether he can assure the House that the terms of reference will be so amended as to enable the Committee to cover other categories of ex-temporaries appointed to established classes since the end of the War?

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, in view of the limitations of the reference of the Lytton Committee of inquiry, he will extend the scope of the inquiry so that this body will be aide to deal effectively with all claims which it may think to be unfounded?

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether the case of ex-temporary clerks appointed to writing assistant posts in the Civil Service will be considered by the special Committee recently set up to deal with the matters arising out of the Lytton Report?

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether it will be competent for the Committee set up to inquire into the initial rates of pay of ex-temporary clerks appointed to permanent posts in the Civil Service to deal with the initial salaries of those extemporary clerks appointed to the writing assistant class?

As I explained on Thursday last, in answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Ashton-under-Lyne, the terms of reference to the Committee will cover not only those who are technically Lytton entrants, but also all entrants, men and women, ex-service and non-service, to the clerical and departmental clerical classes from the special competitions limited to temporary staffs.

The reference thus covers all classes which could fairly be brought within the definition of Lytton entrant, and I do not think it would be right to complicate the issue by bringing before a committee set up to examine the effect of the Lytton Committee's Report the claims of writing assistants or of any other class of civil servant for an improvement in their rates of pay.

I would add, with special reference to the writing assistant class, that no ex-service men have been appointed to that class and that the claim for an improvement of the rates of pay of writing assistants was raised quite independently of the claim of Lytton entrants and has not been regarded even by the staff elements as having any integral connection with the latter claim. In fact, the matter has recently been raised separately on the Civil Service National Whitley Council and is now under consideration by that body, the proposal being to set up a special committee of the Council to examine the whole question of the conditions of service of the writing assistant class.

In these circumstances I feel sure that hon. Members will not desire to set aside the existing machinery while in operation, a fact of which the House was not aware during the recent Debates.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in moving my Resolution I included the figure of 9,000 cases, which I gave, and which I asked to be dealt with?

The hon. Member is perfectly correct, but I have studied with great care every speech made in the debate, which I was unfortunately prevented from attending. While what the hon. Member says is quite true, the speeches made by the hon. Members for Carlisle (Mr. Middleton), Dartford (Mr. Jarrett), Edge Hill (Mr. Hayes), and South-West St. Pancras (Major Barnett) dealt entirely with the case of the ex-service men and Lytton entrants. Having regard to the latter part of my reply, I feel that I have done my utmost to meet what I believe to be the general desire of the House in stating the terms of reference.

When will the right hon. Gentleman be able to announce the names of the Committee?

I hope to be able to do so at the beginning of next week.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether his attention has been called to the following cases of disabled men transferred by his Department to the charge of the Poplar Board of Guardians, thus causing them to become paupers, namely: Arthur J. Robinson, age, 38, previously in the Navy 12 years, served in R. S. during the War, and 22nd July, 1918, admitted to Long Grove mental hospital from Napsbury war hospital; Joseph O'Gorman, age 42, enlisted 19th January, 1916, and 20th June, 1917, admitted to Claybury mental hospital from Napsbury war hospital; James McGeehan, age 47, no record of enlistment, 29th March, 1916, admitted to male observation ward, military hospital, Bethnal Green, 8th April, 1916, admitted to Claybury, and 19th June, 1918, transferred to service class; John Tighe, age 27, enlisted 23rd February, 1917, to Army Reserve, 12th May, 1917, 10th September, 1917, admitted to male observation ward, Poplar, 15th September, 1917, to Claybury, and 3rd April, 1918, transferred to service class; and Henry Damyon, Royal Engineers 12 years from 1896, in Canada for 11 or 12 years, enlisted in Royal Army Medical Corps, May, 1917, admitted to mental hospital in Scotland while still in Army, never sent, abroad, and at present resident in Brentwood mental hospital; whether he is aware of the fact that the Poplar guardians have refused to accept responsibility for these men, and have declined to pay anything towards the cost of their maintenance, or in any way to assist in branding these ex-service men as paupers; and will he, in consequence of this decision and others of a like character, reconsider his decision?

These five cases have all been very carefully reconsidered recently by my medical advisers in connection with the special review, of which the hon. Member is aware. The result has been that the former decisions that the disability is unconnected with service have been confirmed in the cases of Robinson, McGeehan, Tighe and Damyon. In the remaining case of O'Gorman, it has been found possible to admit aggravation by service, and in that case my Department will, therefore, continue to bear the cost of the man's maintenance and institutional treatment. As regards the last part of the question, I am not prepared, as I have already stated, to accept the suggestion that my Department should be permanently responsible for ex-service men whose disabilities are not connected with their war service.

What does the right hon. Gentleman propose to do when the boards of guardians up and down the country refuse to assist him in branding these men as paupers?

asked the Minister of Pensions if he is aware that Private Thomas Hesaltine, No. 6/1496, Durham Light Infantry, joined the Territorial Force in 1912, served 203 days in France, being discharged in April, 1920; that on 30th April, 1922, he was admitted into the Durham County Lunatic Asylum and has since been classed as a pauper lunatic at a cost to the Poor Law of 280; and will steps be taken to treat this case otherwise than as that of a pauper?

This man did no effective military service after July, 1916, when he was transferred to Class W Reserve. The mental condition appears not to have arisen until four years later, and, after full consideration, could not be connected with service. The decision of the Ministry rejecting the claim to pension has been confirmed by the tribunal, and is, therefore, final.

Does the right hon. Gentleman say that this man's service in France would not have any effect on his mental condition, and is not the action of the Ministry simply throwing the expense upon the Poor Law guardians?

asked the Minister of Pensions how many village settlements there are for tubercular ex-service men; how many men are located in them; whether the village settlements at Pap-worth Hall and Barrowmore are to be completed; and, if so, how many men will then be accommodated and how many are in them now?

My right hon. Friend has asked me to answer this question. So far as my right hon. Friend is aware, two village settlements have been started in this country for tuber-culous men and their families, but one of these settlements is not reserved exclusively for ex-service men. Accommodation is provided for over 100 men and their families, but my right hon. Friend has no precise information as to the number of men at present residing in the settlements. He is not aware that a village settlement has yet been started at Barrowmore, and has no definite information as to any proposals for the completion of the settlement at Papworth Hall. As my right hon. Friend stated, in his reply on the 18th instant to the hon. and gallant Member for Reading (Major Cadogan), he proposes to discuss the question of village settlements for tuberculous men with representatives of the British Legion at an early date.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether his attention has been drawn to the serious difficulties of ex-service men deafened by the War; whether he is aware that this disability imposes a handicap upon a man seeking employment fully as great as that suffered by a man who has lost his sight; and whether he can see his way to make a special effort on behalf of these men, similar to that already made on behalf of blinded soldiers, both with regard to training for, and the obtaining of, employment?

I am not prepared to admit that the rate of 70 per cent. given under the Royal Warrant for total deafness compares unfavourably with the 100 per cent. rate given far total blindness. The general question of training and employment for ex-service men is one for my right hon. Friend, the Minister of Labour, but I understand that men who were prevented by deafness due to war service from resuming their pre-War occupation, and who applied to that Department, have been trained in some other suitable form of occupation.

Can the right hon. Gentleman see his way in the case of unlettered men who find it difficult to learn that the number of lessons should be extended from 24?

Without making any promise, I will consider that question.

asked the Secretary of State for Air what proportion of the ex-service temporary civil servants employed in his Department on clerical duties are home service and overseas, respectively; and how many are men who did not sit for the recent special establishment examinations?

Of the ex-service temporary civil servants employed in the Air Ministry on clerical duties, 13 are "home service" and 152 are "overseas." Forty-three of this total of 165 are men who did not sit for the recent special examinations for establishment.

asked the Secretary of State for Air what arrangements, if any, were made for the absorption into civilian clerical employment in his Department of men demobilised from His Majesty's Forces, clerical home service units, from 1918 to October, 1920?

No special steps were taken to absorb into civilian clerical employment demobilised men who had been employed on clerical work in home service units, but a number of such men were in fact taken on in a civil capacity.

asked the Secretary of State for Air whether men who served during the War in the fighting forces of the Crown are being rejected for clerical work under the Air Ministry on account of their being below a certain standard of height?

If my hon. Friend's question refers to civilian clerical work under the Air Ministry, the answer is in the negative.

asked the Prime Minister whether His Majesty's Government has made any agreement with its Allies concerning the suppression of the organisation of German police in military groups, and other matters relative thereto?

I have been asked to reply. The answer is in the affirmative.

Did not the hon. and gallant Gentleman tell the House the other day that we were satisfied that the Germans were carrying out the disarmament Clauses of the Treaty?

The Council of Ambassadors in Paris is in communication with Germany on the subject. As to the details, I am afraid that I cannot answer.

What is the need of putting new demands upon Germany if the Government are satisfied that the terms are being carried out?

I see no reason for thinking that there are new demands. Certain facts have probably come to light, and no doubt the attention of the German Government has been drawn to these facts, but the matter is in the hands of the Ambassadors' Council. I have not got the information.

Does the answer that the terms were being carried out still stand?

Apparently in detail complaints have been put forward.

What steps are proposed by the Government to give effect to this agreement?

They are negotiating through the Council of Ambassadors. I naturally cannot say what steps will be necessary as a result of these negotiations.

asked the Prime Minister whether he can state the total amounts of reparations that have been received by this country from Germany in cash and in goods since the end of the War, excluding the amounts paid in respect of the cost of the Army of Occupation on the Rhine; and what is the approximate amount received annually by this country from the export duties payable in respect of German goods shipped to this country?

My hon. and gallant Friend may take it that receipts from Germany to 31st December last were, roughly, 1,150 million gold marks, of which about nine-tenths were required for reimbursement of coal advances under the Spa Protocol, costs of occupation and similar charges. In addition, paper marks equal in value to 105 million gold marks were requisitioned, all for the costs of occupation. The pound sterling is now worth 19½ gold marks, but its value has fluctuated during the period over which the payments were spread. For further details I must ask him to await publication of a volume which the Reparation Commission propose to issue through the Stationery Office, and which I understand to be in an advanced stage of preparation. As regards the second part of the question, the receipts under the Reparation Recovery Act last year were £7,476,000.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) if the Repartition Commission approved of the 50,000,000 dollars German Government loan; and what is the security for this loan;

(2) if the reported subscription of 12,500,000 dollars of the German Government's loan of 50,000,000 dollars will be handed over to the Reparation Commission; and, if the issue was underwritten, if the balance of the amount left with the underwriters will be credited to the Reparation Commission?

A communication was made by the Reparation Commission on the 28th March in the following terms:

"With reference to the extraordinary receipts which are being attained by the German Government from the recent issue of a gold loan, the Reparation Commission calls the attention of that Government to the provisions of Article 248 of the Treaty of Versailles. The fact that the German Government has not thought it proper to ask for an exception under that Article makes it necessary for the Commission to make an express reserve as against subscribers to the loan no less than other parties, of its right of priority against any funds which may be assigned by the German Government to the payment of interest or repayment of capital of the loan in question, more particularly if the extraordinary receipt itself is not applied to the discharge of reparation annuities."

What is the value of the security?

I cannot answer that question without notice.

The right hon. Gentleman will notice that in Question No. 86 I ask what is the security.

I beg the hon. Member's pardon. I will communicate with him later on that point.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if the Reparation Commission has a lien on all the German Government's revenue for payment of reparations?

I would refer the hon. Member to the terms of the first paragraph of Article 248 of the Treaty of Versailles.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the indignation in this country at the persecution of the Christian religion in Russia and in view of the character of the replies of the Soviet Government to the remonstrances of His Majesty's Government, he will, as a national protest, recall Mr. Hodgson from Moscow and hand M. Krassin and his staff their passports?

Before this question is answered, may I ask the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether his Department acquiesces in the description of "persecution of the Christian religion"?

I can add nothing to the reply given yesterday by the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs to my Noble Friend the Member for South Battersea.

Would not a protest of that kind have more effect than a verbal remonstrance?

It did not seem to be relevant.

asked the Home Secretary whether he can state what British subjects are attached to the Russian trade delegation; and what their employment was before their engagement by the Russian trade delegation?

My right hon. Friend is not in a position to add anything to the answer given on Monday to the hon. and gallant Member by my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs.

I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs two inter-related questions of which I have given him private notice. First, whether there is any international law in force limiting territoral waters to a three-mile limit; whether other nations have reserved more than a three-mile limit in regard to fishing rights; whether the Tsarist Government of Russia reserved a 12-mile zone off the Northern Coast of Russia for fishing rights; whether on 22nd March, 1911, the then British Foreign Minister had a conversation with Count Beckendorff on the subject; whether, on any occasion, the Russian Government suggested that the matter should be discussed at The Hague Conference; whether Sir Edward Grey informed Sir George Buchanan—

I think the hon. Member received a communication from me this morning in regard to this question, which I thought was too detailed, considering the time for research allowed by the notice that has been given.

No, Sir. I received no communication.

I am sorry. I understood that a communication had been sent to the hon. Member, stating that the second question appeared to be within the proper limits of a private notice question, but that the first question was with regard to matters of such detail that it should be put down on the Paper.

I received no such notice.

Perhaps the hon. Member will put his second question?

My second question is, whether a dispute between the Russian and Norwegian Governments, respecting the width of territorial waters off the coast of North Russia, was recently settled amicably by negotiation; if inquiries have been made as to the willingness of the Russian Government to negotiate with His Majesty's Government on the dispute and whether, on their part, His Majesty's Government are equally prepared to enter into negotiations with the Russian Government?

I had intended to answer those two questions together, not knowing that Mr. Speaker had disallowed one of them. I was going to say that I very much regretted not being in a position to answer them to-day, because the time at my disposal since the hon. Member gave me notice had not been sufficient to enable me to make the necessary investigation. I, therefore, must ask the hon. Member to accept my apologies. If he will be good enough to put the questions on the Paper for Monday, I will endeavour to give him a full answer.

On a point of Order. What is the ground of urgency upon which the second question has been put, in view of the fact that I desired on Monday last to ask a similar question by private notice, and it was disallowed by you, Sir?

On a further point of Order. May I point out that hon. Members in this part of the House have been asking questions on that subject for weeks past, and may I ask my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs if, when he reviews the whole position with regard to the Territorial Waters Act, he will consider once again the question of trawling?

In answer to the Noble Lord the Member for South Battersea (Viscount Curzon), the reason why I considered this question was entitled to be put to-day was the announcement made yesterday by the Minister, in reply to the Noble Lord that he was intending to send—I think he used the word "immediately" or the words "without delay"—a despatch to the Government of Russia, and it appears to me that this question had relation to what might be contained in that despatch, and for that reason was urgent.

May I ask whether this question has any possible relation to the interests of the workers of Dundee who returned the hon. Member?

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the campaign on the subject of the trawlers is widely regarded as merely designed to prepare the public mind for the denunciation of our Agreement with Russia?