asked the Minister of Pensions whether, in the proposed fusion of the East and West Midland regions and the establishment of the headquarters of the new combined area at Birmingham, the staff will be paid on the present Birmingham scale; and whether the staff transferred from Nottingham will be maintained in their existing grades and paid thereafter on the Birmingham scale?

The pay of officers transferred from one town to another for which a different pay scale is in operation is governed by Treasury regulations which are common to the Government service. Under these regulations the staff employed in Birmingham will be paid on the Birmingham scale. Subject to the requirements of the work, the transferred staff will retain their existing grades, and those transferred without change of rank will carry their existing pay or enter at the minimum of the appropriate Birmingham scale, whichever is the higher.

Is it the fact that the employés of the Nottingham pensions office have been circularised to say that they may have to forfeit their present grading and enter the Birmingham office at a lower grading, and, if that is so, will the right hon. Gentleman give instructions that that circular should be withdrawn?

No, Sir, it will not be withdrawn. It does not seem to be in any way at variance with the answer I have just given.

asked the Minister of Pensions what was the number of area offices that the Departmental Committee recommended should be established; how many were set up in the year 1922; how many there are in existence; and how many it is proposed to close at an early date?

asked the Minister of Pension's what was the original number of area offices and sub-offices regarded as essential for local administration purposes when the new organisation under the War Pensions Act, 1921, was initiated; how many of these offices have been closed altogether, or had their functions curtailed; and what is the number estimated as ultimately necessary for meeting the needs of ex-service men?

The Departmental Committee did not recommend any particular number of area offices, but merely that the number of local areas for which war pension committees should be appointed should be limited to a maximum of 450. In giving effect to this recommendation, my predecessor has been guided by the advice of a small committee comprising representatives of local committees and ex-service men who had previously served on the Departmental Committee; and, after local representatives had been consulted, 166 area offices and 496 sub-offices were established during the year 1922. With the consistent decline in the volume of the Ministry's work, it has not been found necessary to maintain at the present time more than 161 area offices and 383 sub-offices. The number of offices will only be reduced further as and when the volume of local work clearly ceases to justify the retention of particular offices or sub-offices.

asked the Minister of Pensions what is the number of officers at one time in the service of his Department, and receiving a salary of £250 per annum or above, whose appointments were terminated either because they were in possession of private means or because they refused to disclose their private means; whether the same Regulation applied to regional directors and other principal officers in receipt of a service pension of £800 and more, and, if not, will he state the reason for the differentiation in procedure between officers with £300 a year and more with £800 a year or more?

The reply to the first part of the question is 20, and to the second part in the affirmative. In the interests of the public service, which must always be the chief consideration, exceptions are necessary in the case of certain officers, in receipt of service pension, who are specially suited to the posts they occupy. I may add that the Lytton Committee approved this principle.

Does the Department contend that there are no efficient persons for this work except those who are in receipt of pensions of £800 a year and over?

It is obvious that no one will contend that that is the case, but it is also true that constantly to change men who have been selected for merit, and who are getting accustomed to the work will be greatly to the disadvantage of the pensioners.

Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that the point of the question is not whether certain people have got accustomed to the work, but that he might have found people capable of learning the work and not in receipt of a pension?

asked the Minister of Pensions what is the name and salary of the principal officers in each region other than the regional director; whether some of these officers are permanent civil servants and some temporary civil servants; whether any of the temporary civil servants receive a lower salary than the permanent civil servants doing similar duties; and, if so, will he state the reason for the variation in salary?

As the answer is a lengthy one, I am circulating it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether it is the policy of the Ministry to pursue the principle of amalgamating pensions officers in the County of Durham; and, if so, whether he will consider the question of reimbursing pensioners the extra expense to which they will be put in travelling longer distances for the purpose of interviewing chief area officers?

The War Pensions Committees concerned have been invited to express their views upon proposals to amalgamate the staffs of certain area offices in Durham County. When replies have been received from the committees the proposals will be further considered, and I can assure the hon. Member that no change will be made which would adversely affect the interest of pensioners. When the staff of two areas is combined one of the area offices becomes a sub-office which is placed in charge of a district officer. The facilities for pensioners to interview a responsible officer are, therefore, not affected.

Does the right hon. Gentleman contend that, by the amalgamation of these offices, there will not be extra expense involved on the claimant or pensioner?

No; the substitution of a whole-time sub-office for the area office makes no difference to the men who come to the office because the office in any case is open all the time.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he can state the reason for the dismissal of Mr. Percy H. Jones from the service of the Ministry of Pensions, Birmingham area; whether the action taken was due to any misunderstanding; and whether, seeing that Jones holds a certificate as to efficiency and good conduct, steps can be taken to ensure early reinstatement?

Mr. Jones was warned in November last for conduct subversive of discipline which, notwithstanding that warning, was continued. He was accordingly given one week's notice of the termination of his employment. There was no misunderstanding and I regret I am unable to agree to his reinstatement. Mr. Jones asked urgently for a certificate of service in December last and a testimonial was issued in error by an official unacquainted with all the circumstances.

Has the right hon. Gentleman seen a copy of the certificate which was issued to this man?

I do not think I have seen the certificate, but I have informed the House that the certificate was issued in error.

Will the right hon. Gentleman ask for a complete return, and give personal investigation to it?

I shall be glad to inquire into any case to which the hon. Member wishes to call my attention.

asked the Minister of Pensions what is the number of established permanent officials of the rank of principal clerk and above employed in each of the following departments at the headquarters of the Ministry: secretariat, awards, local administration, finance (including accounts), issue office, and establishments; and what was the number of officers of similar rank employed in these branches on 1st January, 1919?

As the answer comprises a number of figures, I am circulating it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether the population of the northern region and the number of cases dealt with in that region are greater than those of the other region in Great Britain in which the duties of regional director and commissioner of medical services are combined; and, if not, will he state why a regional director was recently appointed to the northern region at a salary of £875 per annum?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. I may add that I contemplate increasing the area of responsibility of the regional director of the northern region.

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether secretariats have been introduced by and with the approval of the Treasury as separate divisions of the staff and administration of Government Departments; if so, at what date this decision was reached; is he aware that the introduction of secretariats has had the effect of separating and isolating the heads of technical and administrative divisions from access and responsibility to the permanent and political heads of State Departments; and can he name the Ministries in which this new element has been introduced during the War or later and the numbers and cost of persons employed in purely secretarial work?

Secretariats form an integral part of the organisation of many Departments, but there has been no such general change as is implied in the second part of the question, and the third and fourth parts do not, therefore, arise.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether lessons in lip-reading are granted as of right to all ex-service men suffering from deafness due to War service; whether he is satisfied that 25 lessons are sufficient to enable unlettered or backward men to acquire proficiency in lip-reading; and whether, if cases can be brought to his notice of men who have been unable to learn lip-reading in the prescribed number of lessons, he will be prepared to increase the number of lessons in such cases?

Where a man is likely to benefit by it, instruction in lip-reading is provided by my Department. After a certain amount of instruction, proficiency in lip-reading is entirely dependent upon regular practice, and it is the considered opinion of my advisers that a course of 25 lessons affords the man of average intelligence ample opportunity of acquiring the faculty. Experience has shown, however, that the unlettered men of less than normal intelligence is incapable of acquiring facility in the art. I shall be pleased to inquire into any individual cases if the hon. and gallant Member will let me have particulars.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether his attention has been called to the operation of Article 23 of the Royal Warrant on Pensions, whereby a pension granted to a mother in respect of her deceased son is cancelled when, on the death of her husband, she marries a second time; and whether, seeing that the basis of the grant to a mother in such circumstances is the contingent legal liability resting upon a son to support his mother and that this liability is unaffected by the death of one husband and the marriage to a second, he will take steps to have the warrant amended so as to make it possible to grant a pension to any woman who has lost a son in the War and is in necessitous circumstances?

In cases of remarriage, whether of dependants or of widows, a gratuity is awarded to the pensioner in final discharge of the claim. I am not prepared to adopt the suggestion in the last part of the question. Such a course would result in placing the dependant in a better position than the widow.

Would the right hon. Gentleman say what change has actually taken place in the position of the mother by her marriage to a second husband?

In the second case she would be married to a man, and in the first case she would not be married.

Is not the legal liability the same? Does not this contingent liability remain?

Would not the right hon. Gentleman consider, looking once again into the question whether, if a mother dependent upon a son were, after remarriage, to fall again into necessitous circumstances, her case might be met?

My right hon. Friend will realise the difficulties, but I will certainly consider that point.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether his attention has been called to the case of the widowed mother of the late Sergeant Harry Battison, No. 266,580, 1st Sherwoods, Notts and Derby Regiment, whose allowance of 15s. per week has been reduced to 8s. 11d.; on what grounds such reduction has been made; and whether he can take any steps to award more than 8s. 11d. to a mother whose main support has been killed in the War?

The local pension committee assessed household dependence for separation allowance purposes at 12s. 6d. a week, and this assessment was upheld by the War Office Appeals Committee. When pension was claimed, the dependence of both parents was assessed at 15s. a week. As, however, the father died before pension was granted, the award should clearly have been limited to the mother's share of the dependence, and this has now been done.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he is aware that the recent application of Mrs. E. Yates, 3, New Buildings, Meeting Street, Wednesbury, mother of the late G. H. Yates, No. 407,787, for a pension was refused on the ground that she was not infirm; and whether, seeing that she is nearly 50 years of age, and that she has been unable to secure employment for a period of two years, he will take steps to see that her right to a pension is duly acknowledged?

The applicant did not claim to satisfy the conditions of incapacity for self support laid down by the Royal Warrant. Indeed, when she applied for pension she was, in fact, in receipt of unemployment benefit. Should, however, the circumstances of the case alter, so as to render her eligible for pension, a renewed application will receive full consideration.

Does the right hon. Gentleman think a mother ought to be compelled to go out to work if she is able before she can establish her right to a pension, and will he go into the matter of general principle?

No, I think the principle of larger pensions on the ground of need, rather than lower pensions on a flat-rate, is, on the whole, to the advantage of the poorer section of the applicants.

asked the Minister of Pensions how many applications for widows' pensions and how many applications for dependants' pensions have been refused owing to the pensioner's death occurring more than seven years after his first removal from duty?

I regret that the records of my Department do not distinguish between cases in which a pension had to be refused under Article 11 because the death occurred more than seven years after the man's first removal from duty, and other cases of this type. But I may remind the hon. Member of the modified interpretation of the terms of the Article which I announced in my reply to the hon. Member for the Deritend Division of Birmingham (Mr. Smedley Crooke) on the 22nd March. About 30 claims have been made by dependants which were ineligible for pension under the provisions of the Warrant referred to.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether that modification is generally known, so that applications may be made under the altered circumstances?

The modification was published in the Press, as, although we were anxious to give the information to the House, the House was not sitting. Therefore, it was published at once in the Press, and has been several times announced in the House. I will send the hon. Member a copy.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he is aware that the claim of Mrs. A. E. Fortesque, of 2, Thorpe Street, Ilkeston, widow of the late Private Arthur Fortesque, No. 14,443, Grenadier Guards, has been disallowed by the tribunal; that Arthur Fortesque, up to the time of his death, was in receipt of a 40 per cent. disablement pension, and as a result of ailments contracted during War service died in hospital; and, in view of the very unsatisfactory decision, will he cause further inquiries to be made?

The late soldier did not die of the disease for which he was in receipt of pension, and the Ministry considered that the cause of death was not connected with his active service during the War. The claim to full pension under Article 11 of the Royal Warrant was accordingly rejected, and this decision, having been confirmed by the Tribunal, is final.

Is the Minister aware that this man had been continuously in receipt of a pension, and was actually sent to hospital on the advice and authority of the military authorities?

The position is that this man was pensioned for deafness, and died of some quite other illness, and the House will realise that that necessarily did not constitute a claim for pension.

asked the Minister of Pensions if he will be prepared to grant authority to local officials of the British Legion to attest pensioners' declaration on identity certificates?

The list of persons authorised to attest pensioners' declarations on life certificates has recently been widely extended by the inclusion of members of War Pensions Committees, accredited voluntary workers attached to Committees, and members of my Advisory Committee and of the Standing Joint Committee. I am not prepared to recommend any further additions to the classes of authorised attestors.

asked the Minister of Pensions if he is aware of the great inconvenience caused to pensioners by the fact that identity life certificates have to be renewed every three months; and will he consider the advisability of extending the period?

It has been decided, subject to the necessary legislation being secured, to extend the period of validity of pensioners' life certificates from 13 to 26 weeks.

asked the Minister of Pensions what is the number of men in receipt of home treatment without allowances in each region?

I regret that I have not this information. I may explain that home treatment is ordinarily obtained by the man from his panel practitioner under the National Health Insurance scheme, without the intervention of the Ministry.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he can furnish any explanation of the reasons why in the northern region, with 48,000 pensions in payment, there are only 186 men in receipt of home treatment with allowances, while in the north-western region, with 95,000 pensions in payment, there are 1,570 men on home treatment with allowances; whether he is aware that the emergency held committee of the Order of St. John of Jerusalem and the British Red Cross Society disbursed over £4,000 in the counties of Northumberland and Durham in the six months ending 31st December, 1922, mainly in grants to men who were totally incapacitated owing to a disability incurred in war service, and who were on home treatment ordered or approved by the Ministry, but who did not receive treatment allowances, and that in many cases the pensions are inadequate as compensation for the periods of ill-health and loss of work in consequence thereof suffered by the pensioners; and whether he will take steps to ensure that pensioners in the northern region when on home treatment shall receive at least equal consideration to that shown to men in receipt of home treatment in the other regions in Britain?

The apparent discrepancy referred to by the hon. Member had already been noted. I would, however, remind him that a comparison between regions cannot fairly be made on a percentage basis alone, without regard to such factors as hospital facilities and the various types of disability requiring treatment. I am satisfied from inquiries which have been made that in the northern region treatment allowances are not being wrongfully withheld. If the hon. Member has any evidence to the contrary, I should be glad to have an opportunity of considering it.

Is not the Minister desirous that there should be equal application of the Regulations throughout the whole area, and, as the answer to a question which I put down recently showed grounds for grave suspicion, will the right hon. Gentleman himself institute an inquiry?

I cannot undertake to make an inquiry, but I am, of course, in entire agreement with the hon. Member that the facilities should be equal. There are curious complications showing that certain illnesses occur more in certain regions than in others, owing to the district to which the troops from those particular regions were sent. It is a very interesting point.

asked the Minister of Pensions the number of cases brought before the House of Lords Appeal Tribunal, Birmingham, for the six months ending 31st December, 1922, and also for the same period in 1921; and if he will state the result of these appeals?

During the six months ending 31st December, 1921, eight tribunals sat at Birmingham. During the six months ending 31st December, 1922, five tribunals sat at that centre. The results of the sittings during the two periods in question were as follow:—

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he is aware that Mrs. Hodson, of 2, Stafford Street, Wednesbury, has had her pension reduced from 16s. per week to 10s.; whether this is her sole source of income; whether Mrs. Hodson has appeared before any committee respecting this reduction; and, if not, on what evidence has the reduction been made?

The present award is based upon all the circumstances of the case, as ascertained after local inquiry by an officer of the Ministry. It does not appear that the pensioner has made representations regarding her case to the War Pensions Committee, but I am personally considering the facts of the case.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether, in order to reduce the amount of inconvenience to which men are put by their draft books not being available at Post Offices, he has decided to extend the period for which pensioners ring papers are current; and, if so, will he state when the extended period of issue is likely to be brought into force?

An extension of the currency of the ring paper would not solve the difficulty which the hon. Member has in mind, but if he alludes to the period of validity of the life certificate, I would refer him to the answer which I have given to-day to the hon. Member for Stourbridge.

asked the Minister of Pensions whether he is aware that a newspaper cutting containing critical remarks against the treatment meted out to ex-soldiers made by Mr. T. W. Gorringe, late corporal, Royal Engineers, No. 57,313, 62, Church Street, Westhoughton, was attached to Gorringe's papers sent to the medical referee in connection with an application for medical treatment; and, seeing that those remarks were made by Gorringe in his capacity as a member of the Bolton Board of Guardians, and that the man's criticisms of the Pensions Ministry as contained in the Press cutting referred to have militated against his claim for treatment, and that records of his treatment tend to show that this is the case, will he take the necessary steps to prevent an ex-soldier's public statements from being used in evidence for or against his claim for treatment allowance and to deal with the officer guilty of this practice in Gorringe's case?

My attention was drawn to this incident when it occurred about a year ago, and I have taken steps to prevent any similar occurrence. It is not, however, the fact that the man has been prejudiced; on the contrary his case has been dealt with throughout on its merits and he has received the full benefits to which he is entitled under the Royal Warrant.

What reason was there for the fixing of a Press cutting, containing a long statement at a public meeting of his medical record, and is the right hon. Gentleman aware of this strange coincidence, that this man's position has been worsened as from the date that Press cutting was attached to his medical certificate, and what action has he taken to the individual who attached this Press cutting to the record?

The affixing of the Press cutting was entirely contrary to the wishes of my right hon. Friend who was Minister at the time and of myself. Strict orders have been issued that this is not to be done.

Is this officer still in the service of the Ministry? Has the right hon. Gentleman taken any steps to remove a man like that from the service of the Government?

What has the right hon. Gentleman done to the officer who played that mean trick on this man?

I must have notice as to what happened to that individual, but strict orders have been issued that this is not to be done, and the hon. Member would be fairer to the Ministry if he realised that we disapprove of this action as much as he does.

Is it not a fact that the man had his allowance reduced at this time, and is the right hon. Gentleman going to say he was not worsened directly as the result of this document being attached to his record?

It is a monstrous charge against the whole medical profession that three doctors will be prejudiced by a Press cutting, which clearly ought not to have been attached.

asked the Minister of Pensions if a soldier who marries whilst on service, but in attendance or resident at a military hospital, is entitled, if subsequently pensioned, to an allowance for his wife?

The Royal Warrant does not provide for the payment of an allowance in respect of a wife married after the soldier's removal from duty on account of the disability for which he receives pension.

asked the Minister of Pensions why, seeing that the revised scheme for parents' need pensions does not recognise temporary sickness as creating a condition of need entitling a parent to a pension in respect of a deceased son, his Department takes into account in assessing the amount of a parent's pension National Health Insurance benefit, which is by its nature temporary and may be terminated at any moment?

A need pension is only payable if the claimant is wholly or partly incapable of self support. Temporary incapacity due to temporary illness is not a ground of claim and in such cases the question of taking sickness benefit into account does not arise. Where, however, the incapacity is certified to be reasonably permanent, disablement benefit under the National Health Insurance Acts is normally preceded by a period of sickness benefit, and these benefits being in respect of a permanent condition must be taken into account in computing a parent's income.

Who certifies that the illness is permanent?

The authorities concerned in the administration of the Insurance Act.

asked the Minister of Pensions if he will have inquiries made into the case of P. Molloy, late Labour Corps, of 67, Queen Street, Wigan, whose appeal to the Pensions Appeal Tribunal against a final award was allowed and who is now notified that there are no grounds for further award of pension; if he is aware that this man contracted malaria during his service in the War; that he has been discharged from his last three places of employment on account of suffering from this disease; that he has been compelled to give up his employment as a miner; that he is certified as only fit for work on the surface; and that he has not worked for over two years; and whether, under these circumstances, his claim to a pension will be admitted?

In the short time available, I have not been able to obtain the papers from the region. I will communicate with the hon. Member as soon as possible.

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman do not the many questions addressed to him indicate a spirit of great dissatisfaction with the Pensions Ministry, and do they not also indicate the need for more generous treatment?

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department the number of serious and fatal accidents, respectively, which have occurred during each year since 1919, as a result of riding on the pillions of motor-bicycles?

I have been asked to reply to this question. No separate record is kept, either by the Home Office or by my Department, of accidents in which motor-cycles with pillion riders are involved. Although the Minister of Transport is not vested with any legal powers in the matter, it is the practice of my Department to hold informal inquiries and inspections into the circumstances attending all serious road accidents. There is no evidence, so far as these investigations go, that accidents of the nature referred to are particularly frequent, or show any tendency to increase in number.

asked the Home Secretary the number of fatal accidents which have occurred to children under 12 years of age during each year since 1919 as a result of injuries due to motor traffic?

The returns of street accidents caused by vehicles furnished to the Home Office by police authorities do not give the ages of persons killed or injured. In the Annual Reports of the Registrar-General the numbers of children under 10 years of age whose deaths were due to mechanically-propelled vehicles other than on railways are stated to be as follow:

asked the Home Secretary whether, in order to diminish the risk of accident to passengers alighting from or entering tramcars, he will consider the desirability of issuing Regulations whereby fast-running and other vehicles may be prevented from passing the stationary tramcar until after it has resumed its journey?

I have been asked to reply to this question. I would refer the right hon. Member to the reply, of which I am sending him a copy, given on the 20th February to a question on this subject asked by the hon. Member for North Camberwell.

Is it not the case that in America, legislation of this kind has been in operation for many years and with very great success; and is there any reason why we in this country should not adopt a similar practice?

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that although these Regulations have been in force in New York and other parts of America, they have caused extreme inconvenience, not only to fool passengers but vehicular traffic?

rose—

The question must not be debated.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that in Conduit Street and other thoroughfares in the West End of London the custom of parking motor cars in the centre of the street is causing increased and increasing congestion of the traffic, and that trades-people complain that the obstruction so caused deters potential customers from visiting the shops and business houses in these streets and that loss of trade results; and whether the whole question of the parking of cars may be reconsidered in view of the urgency of the problem?

The object of the parking (namely, to prevent congestion in main thoroughfares) can only be attained by transferring a certain proportion of waiting traffic to streets of less importance. Very few complaints of the nature indicated have been received. The general question of the parking of cars will be considered by the Departmental Committee appointed by the Minister of Transport to examine the whole question of the regulation of hackney vehicles and the parking of vehicles.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that certain local authorities have in many cases granted no increase of pension under the Pensions (Increase) Act, 1920, and that police pensioners of over 60 are in receipt of pensions of under £31 a year and of over 70 pensions under £40 a year; and whether he can take any steps to obtain relief for these pensioners pending further legislation?

I am aware that a few police authorities have not granted any increase to pensioners who are eligible under the Pensions (Increase) Act, 1920; but I am advised that the matter is one in which the Act gives them a discretion. The police authorities concerned have on several occasions been asked to reconsider their decision, but as the Act stands there is no further action that I can take.

May I have the opportunity of bringing before the Committee set up to consider this question evidence on the cases referred to?

I should be glad if my hon. Friend will speak to me on the subject.

In view of the fact that it is owing to the discretionary power given under the Pensions (Increase) Act, 1920, that these injustices are done to the old police pensioners, will the right hon. Gentleman, in the new legislation which we understand is to come before the House, make provision for the compulsory recognition of the needs of these people, and will it be retrospective, and have effect upon the authorities in considering the cases?

I cannot give that pledge off-hand, but I will consider the matter.

asked the Home Secretary whether the practice of issuing warrants for the opening of all correspondence addressed to certain individuals was introduced during the War; whether in the case of such correspondence warrants are issued for definite periods in each individual case or are of permanent effect; if issued for definite periods, whether these warrants are periodically reconsidered with a view to their possible withdrawal; and how many individuals are now having their correspondence dealt with in this way?

As my hon. Friend stated in reply to the hon. Member for Leith last Thursday, the present practice has been in vogue many years. No warrant has permanent effect. The warrants in force are constantly under review, and are withdrawn when no longer required. It would not be in the public interest to give particulars concerning the warrants in force at any one time.

Was it not the former practice to issue a warrant for a particular letter, and not for the whole correspondence?

I must have notice of that question.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say how long the practice of giving a general warrant has been in force?

I am not sure, but I think the system of issuing warrants has been in force for nearly 100 years.

How long has it been the practice to issue a warrant authorising the opening of all the correspondence addressed to one individual?

I must have notice of that question.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether these warrants are operative as regards a Member of this House?

I must ask for notice of a question like that.

asked the Home Secretary whether the Irish deportees brought over to this country are allowed to communicate with their friends before appearing before the Advisory Committee with the object of securing legal advice; whether these persons are informed of the nature and details of the charges they are alleged to be guilty of before their appearance; and whether he will lay upon the Table of the House the names of the internees appearing before the Advisory Committee, a copy of the charges made against them, and the result of each appeal?

The matters considered by the Committee are questions of fact and not of law, and legal advice is not therefore necessary, but when internees have applied to see a solicitor, they have been allowed to do so. In view of the grave danger which would in many cases ensue to persons giving information, the practice is not to supply interned persons with a formal statement of the evidence against them. If they apply to the Advisory Committee the evidence against them is indicated, as far as possible, when they appear before the Committee, and they are given the fullest opportunity of answering it. The names of the persons who have so far appeared before the Advisory Committee are Charles Garrety, James Hickey, J. D. McCann, P. J. O'Neill, Mary Finan, Katherine Furlong, and Margaret Leonard. On the advice of the Committee, Katherine Furlong and James Hickey have been released, and Charles Garrety, J. D. McCann, P. J. O'Neill, Mary Finan and Margaret Leonard are being further detained. For the reasons stated above, I am not prepared to make public the information which led to internment in particular cases.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that these people have been brought before the Advisory Committee and have not been informed of the charges against them; and does he consider it fair that people should be brought over and charged with offences and not be able to answer them?

They are informed. The Advisory Committee is presided over by an ex-Judge of very high standing, and I am sure that he would not allow anything unfair to be done.

Did not the right hon. Gentleman undertake that these people should have legal assistance, if they wished it?

I have already said that any internee who wishes to see a solicitor is allowed to do so.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that these people have been taken over from this country and no information has been given to their friends, and they have had no opportunity of obtaining legal advice? I beg to give notice that I shall raise this question on the adjournment to-night.

In view of the recent judgment should not the people who are now interned in Ireland be restored to the country of their adoption and birth?

That can be discussed to-night.

asked the Home Secretary whether he can now see his way to remove the restrictions imposed on the sale of tobacco and chocolates in theatres and elsewhere, which were imposed in war time in order to restrict the demand for sugar and luxuries?

The exclusion of tobacco and confectionery from the restrictions of the Shops (Early Closing) Acts of 1920 and 1921 would involve amending legislation, which would be controversial and could not be undertaken by the Government at the present time.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that these restrictions are very irritating and quite unnecessary, and a source of harm at the present time?

That is a matter of opinion.

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that by a Treasury Minute issued on 20th February, 1891, the then Chancellor of the Exchequer stated that the deficiency then existing in the Royal Irish Constabulary Force Fund was primarily due to the fact that the Government created, and for nearly 50 years administered, this insurance fund without actuarial advice, and that it promised without reserve, benefits upon which the contributors not unreasonably relied; that this faulty Government administration necessitated an advance from the Exchequer to make the fund solvent; and whether, in view of all the circumstances of the case and of the fact that, in December 1919, a strong Viceregal Commission, on which all parties concerned, including the British Government, were represented, unanimously recommended that the Constabulary Force Fund should be wound up, he will consider the propriety of winding up the fund and, if necessary, introduce a Bill for this purpose on the lines suggested in a letter of 8th February 1917, from the All-Ireland Committee of the Royal Irish Constabulary Pensioners' Association or on such other lines as his advisers may suggest?

My right hon. Friend has asked me to answer this question. The answer to the first part is in the affirmative; as regards the second part of the question, it is the case that in 1891 the Chancellor of the Exchequer asked Parliament to vote the sum of £150,000 in aid of the Fund, in order that subscribers' dependants should not be disappointed by receiving smaller benefits than those which they had been led to expect. This grant, which represented the estimated deficiency at that time, was voted by Parliament on the express understanding that if it should prove inadequate a further grant would be made, but that if, on the contrary, it should ultimately prove more than sufficient to enable the Fund to meet its legal liabilities, the surplus should be returned to the Exchequer in reduction of the advance of £150,000. So long as any of the subscribers remain alive it cannot be ascertained whether there will be any surplus ultimately remaining in the Fund when all liabilities are discharged. In reply, therefore, to the last part of the question, my right hon. Friend cannot see his way to introduce legislation which could only have the effect of depriving the subscribers' dependants of their legal rights in order to enable the assets of the Fund to be distributed among the members who, under existing enactments, have no legal interest in the assets of the Fund.

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in 1919 the Irish Government appointed a Commission, presided over by the Lord Chancellor of Ireland, to consider the whole subject, and that the Commission reported unanimously in favour of the winding up of this Fund, and that the Irish Government of the day, of which I happened to be a Member, were prepared to take action on the lines suggested; and will my, hon. Friend reconsider the whole question?

My right hon. and learned Friend is not quite accurate. They recommended that the Fund should be wound up as soon as possible, and it is being wound up.

In view of the recommendations of the Commission and the facts of the case, will my hon. Friend promise to reconsider a properly drawn up scheme for winding up this Fund, as was done in the case of the Queen's Jubilee Fund, which was another Royal Irish Constabulary Fund.

In the latter part of his question my hon. and learned Friend refers to a certain letter. I have not been able to trace it yet. Directly it has been traced I shall give my hon. and learned Friend a further reply.

In view of the practical unanimity of the subscribers to this Fund, will the Home Secretary take some action to have the Fund wound up, so that the proceeds may be distributed?

I have consulted the Treasury about this. It is a very difficult matter. I could not give an answer off hand.

Will my right hon. Friend undertake to consider the question just referred to?

Yes.

asked the Home Secretary whether the officer responsible for the police arrangements in connection with the football cup final at Wembley received a letter despatched on 23rd April from the British Empire Exhibition authorities, giving warning of the danger of an attendance exceeding the capacity of the Stadium and asking for a supply of police which, in the opinion of the police authorities, would be adequate to deal with such a situation; if so, whether any reply was sent to this letter; and what action was taken?

I understand that a letter to this effect was received by the superintendent of the division. He was in constant touch with the exhibition authorities both before and after the date mentioned, and, as I stated last week, the number of police to be provided was settled in consultation with them and, in addition, a large number was held in reserve.

Are we to understand that the number of police supplied was supplied not on the estimate of the exhibition authorities, but on the estimate of the police?

No. You are to understand what I have said in my answer.

Is it not a fact that the letter in question asked the police to supply the number of police which was, in the opinion of the police authorities, sufficient to deal with a danger of which they had definite warning beforehand?

Can the right hon. Gentleman state the proportion of the crowd as compared with the number of police, and is he prepared to say who are the authorities responsible for the conditions created at Wembley?

I cannot give those figures off-hand. The police and the authorities at Wembley are considering what precautions are necessary to avoid in future anything of the same kind. As I have said already, the number of police was settled in consultation between the police authorities and the exhibition authorities.

Is it not a fact that the exhibition authorities asked the police to supply the number of police which, in their opinion, was necessary to deal with a danger of which they had been warned? Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that responsibility or not?

I have not seen the letter in question, but I do not see that it makes the slightest difference to what I have said.

Would it not be unreasonable to estimate the number of police required beyond the capacity of the building or premises, for admission to which the public are going to pay, and therefore it is not reasonable if the number seeking admission exceeded by thousands the capacity of the premises that inadequate police arrangement were made, so that no blame attaches either to the police authorities or the Stadium authorities?

asked the Home Secretary whether the police supplied to the Stadium at Wembley for the Football Cup Final on 28th April were paid for out of public funds or by the Stadium proprietors; whether the extra police ordered up to deal with the large crowd were paid for by the same authorities; whether the mounted and foot police who were employed at the Stadium and the approaches thereto received any extra pay or allowances for the strenuous work they performed; and will he state what the amount was?

The exhibition authorities have been charged with the cost of police supplied by arrangement with them for duty at the Stadium, but not with the cost of the additional police held in reserve or those subsequently called in. Men employed beyond their ordinary duty period would receive either "time off" or payment in lieu, and in some cases refreshment allowance under the usual conditions, but no special payment is made in respect of the strenuous nature of the duty. The last part of the question therefore does not arise.

Does the right hon. Gentleman not think it proper to accept responsibility for this matter and not shelter behind the exhibition authorities?

That does not arise out of the: question, but I take full responsibility for what the police have done and I have said already that I believe that they acted with great propriety in the matter.

asked the Home Secretary whether the Metropolitan Police who control road traffic in the streets of London are specially trained for this work; whether they receive any extra pay or allowances while carrying out these dangerous duties; and whether he will consider if the men employed on this special work shall have, during the hot summer months, more suitable and lighter uniforms?

Constables receive special instruction before being placed on traffic duty in the London streets. They do not receive any extra pay or allowances. The whole of the force are provided with uniform for summer wear, and it is suitable and comfortable for men engaged in traffic control.

asked the Home Secretary if his attention has been drawn to paragraph 41 of the recent Report of the committee to consider County Court fees, in which they say that substantial fees are payable on investment of sums paid into the County Courts by way of compensation under the Workmen's Compensation Act, 1906; and, having regard to the fact that the committee express it as their opinion that it is unjust that the Court should exact these latter fees, and thereby reduce the compensation which those who have suffered ought to receive, will he adopt the committee's recommendation that when money is paid into Court by an employer he should pay a fee covering the investment, if any, and all subsequent applications for payment out, so that the beneficiaries may obtain the full amount of the compensation awarded them?

The Report to which the hon. Member refers is being considered by the Lord Chancellor and the Treasury. In so far as the Committee recommend legislation or alterations in the Fees Order which are dependent upon legislation, steps are being taken to carry out those recommendations by means of provisions in a County Courts Bill which will shortly be presented to Parliament. The Treasury and the Lord Chancellor do not propose to come to a final decision as to the Fees Order recommended by the Committee, or as to any particular items in it, until the County Courts Bill has been considered by Parliament.

asked the President of the Board of Education whether Sections 11 to 16 of the Education Act, 1921, which deal with the submission of schemes by the local education authorities to the Board, are in operation; if so, what action the Board has taken on schemes which were submitted to them by local education authorities during the course of the years 1920 and 1921 and, if no action has been taken by the Board, what steps he proposes to take in the immediate future to give effect to Sections 11 to 16 of the Act?

I may refer my hon. Friend to the reply which I gave on the 12th April to the hon. Member for East Birkenhead. There has been considerable correspondence between the Board and local education authorities upon the details of their schemes, and the absence of statutory approval must not be taken as indicating that many of them are not on sound educational lines. In view, however, of the financial position, the Board have not felt justified in giving their statutory approval to these schemes, which would have made it obligatory upon the authorities to give effect to them and would have committed the Board to aiding the expenditure involved. In the case of a few schemes, they thought it better even to defer their criticisms until the prospect became clearer; but they are now prepared to resume this process in the case of any authority who may desire it, and without prejudice as to the date upon which any such scheme can become operative.

asked the President of the Board of Education whether he will initiate legislation conferring upon the Universities of Bristol, Leeds, Birmingham, Manchester, and other universities civil and criminal jurisdiction and administrative powers over students, graduates, servants, and citizens in the vicinity to the exclusion of His Majesty's Courts and the local authorities, as now enjoyed by Oxford University?

I do not propose to initiate such legislation.

asked the President to the Board of Education the number of elementary schools in urban districts and in rural districts, respectively, in England and Wales in which school gardening is taught?

The number of public elementary schools in which gardening was taught in England and Wales during the year ending 31st March, 1922, was as follows: In rural districts in county council areas, 3,976; in all other districts, 1,938; making a total of 5,914.

asked the President of the Board of Education the approximate number of children holding free places in secondary shools in England and Wales; and how many of these children come from elementary schools?

On the 1st October, 1922, there were 128,194 pupils holding free places within the meaning of the Secondary School Regulations. These free places can only be held by pupils who have attended a public elementary school for at least the two years immediately preceding their admission to the secondary school.

asked the President of the Board of Education if he has any information showing the approximate number of students who will be leaving the training colleges in July next?

I anticipate that the number of students now in training who will be leaving the training colleges next July is, approximately, 7,760.

asked the President of the Board of Education the number of children in the special schools for teaching the deaf; and if there are any statistics to show the number of deaf children in to country for whom no educational provision is made?

The accommodation in the certified special schools for the deaf is 4,636. The latest returns from local education committees show that there are, approximately, 6,000 deaf and dumb and partially deaf children in the country. On the basis of these figures the provision for such children in special schools is deficient by about 1,400 places.

Is any provision made in the coming year for these unfortunate children, who have just as much claim on us as those who are actually in the schools?

Where are these children now? Are they outside the scope of the Board altogether, or are they in the ordinary schools with other children?

A great many, the majority—I should like notice of the question before answering definitely—are, I believe, in the ordinary schools. That is, of course, eminently unsatisfactory, and I hope in the course of this year to get a much larger proportion of them into the special schools.

Will the right hon. Gentleman allow education authorities which are willing to provide places to provide them; and will the Board of Education allow a percentage of the cost?

Obviously, I cannot answer a general question like that without notice. If the hon. Member has in his mind any case in which he thinks treatment has been unequal, I shall be pleased to consider it.

asked the President of the Board of Education if there has been an alteration in the method of grading special schools by which they are no longer graded in a class but on a numerical basis; if this is so, on what grounds has the grading which was approved by the Burnham Committee been amended; and, considering the special character of the teaching required for the type of scholars attending these schools, if he will consider the restoration of the original grading?

I am not sure that I understand the meaning of the hon. Member's question. The Burnham Committee, in paragraph 7 of their Report, recommended the grading of special schools on a numerical basis, and the Board have not departed from this principle.

asked the President of the Board of Education if he is aware of the urgent need in the town of Cockermouth for a secondary school; that over 200 families are compelled to send their children to other towns for such education; that the urban and rural district councils of the town and neighbourhood are anxious that the Cumberland Industrial School, now vacant, should be used for that purpose; and, in view of the urgent need and the available premises, will he consider the granting of such a proposal?

The provision of a secondary school at Cockermouth is primarily a matter for the local education authority for Cumberland. Any specific proposals which they may submit to the Board will be carefully considered.

asked the President of the Board of Education if he has considered the advisability of securing that service as a teacher and as one of His Majesty's inspectors of schools should be regarded as continuous and pensionable for superannuation purposes; and if he is willing to take steps to secure that end?

As the hon. Member is no doubt aware, a Departmental Committee is at present engaged in reviewing the existing system of superannuation, and pending their Report, I am not in a position to make any statement.

Will this matter be brought before the Departmental Committee and their recommendation sought?

Speaking without having had the exact case looked up, I would say that it is quite within their terms of reference, and that it is quite open, if that is so, for anyone to ask them to consider it.

asked the President of the Board of Education if he is aware that the West Riding County Council Education Committee made application in March, 1921, to be allowed to erect a hut in which to provide instruction in domestic subjects for the senior scholars attending five elementary schools in the Ecclesfield area; that approval was not granted, but that owing to the urgency of the question and the fact that the Ecclesfield Education Sub-committee have continued to press strongly for this provision another application was made in March of this year which has again been refused; and that a hut suitable for this purpose has been stored in the playground of the Ecclesfield council school for nearly two years; and, in view of this fact and the obvious necessity for the provision of such instruction, will he reconsider the whole question and give the necessary approval for the work to proceed?

I will give further consideration to this case on its merits.

asked the Prime Minister whether, having regard to the ties in commerce and sport which existed between the British and Magyar nations before the War, he will use his influence with the nations comprising the greater and lesser entente so that, under the guidance of the League of Nations, the same financial help may be given to Hungary as was lately afforded to Austria with such happy results?

His Majesty's Government regard favourably the efforts which are being made to relieve the financial situation of Hungary. The matter is at the moment under the consideration of the Reparation Commission.

asked the. Prime Minister whether, as the policy pursued in answering the German Reparation Note indicates a widening divergency between the French and British Governments, he will enter into full and frank negotiations with the French Government, having in view the fact that without Allied solidarity there can be no permanent peace in Europe or Asiatic Turkey?

If the right hon. Member will refer to the statement made in another place by the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs on the 20th April, he will find that His Majesty's Government are fully aware of the importance of the maintenance of Allied solidarity, on which their present policy is based.

On a point of Order. Is it in order to refer in this House to debates in another place?

I did not hear the answer. I cannot, therefore, give a ruling on the matter.

Can the right hon. Gentleman now say whether the House will be put in possession of the British reply to the German Note in time for this evening's Debate?

No, certainly not.

asked the Prime Minister whether the recent Note by the German Government on reparations was presented to the Government of the United States of America; and whether His Majesty's Government proposes to exchange views on that Note with the United States Government as well as the Royal Italian Government?

The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative; to the last part of the question it is in the negative, the United States Government having made no claim upon Germany for reparations, and there being no indication that to consult them might not merely be a source of embarrassment to them.

Have the United States Government sent a claim for the cost of the United States Army of Occupation, and, in any case, why do we rule out a friendly nation who might assist us in a difficult situation?

According to my recollection, the claim to which the hon. and gallant Member refers is entirely separate from the general question of reparation.

Is it not a fact that the German suggestion to refer their claim to arbitration originated in the speech of Mr. Hughes?